BS: Tour de France, Anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 06:38 AM

Ullrich has been suspended by his team for being a suspect in the Spanish doping scandal. He is a non-starter. His name is on the same doping list as Basso's.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 06:42 AM

Oscar Sevilla, once winner of the Tour's white jersey, has been suspended as well (same reason) by T-Mobile.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 06:55 AM

Quite likely, Ivan Basso and Francisco Mancebo (and roughly 50 lesser known) will also not start. They will not be replaced.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 09:40 AM

Full story here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/5132320.stm

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 09:49 AM

oh, my....not good news. Wonder why this investigation couldn't have been done sooner. The timing of the announcement right before the tour is a heavy blow. I guess they have pretty serious evidence to suspend so many.

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 09:58 AM

Wow, that was fast-- the last news before I posted had been that Ullrich was a go. Now I see why the "Provisional Start List" cyclingnews had posted was nowhere to be found yesterday.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 02:36 PM

Alexandre Vinokourov...

~s~

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 05:29 PM

Vino NOPE, his team has withdrawn:

Astana-Würth leaves the Tour

Dutch television's sports anchorman Mart Smeets has just reported that the Astana-Würth team has left the Tour de France. The team had five of its Tour riders officially named in the Operacion Puerto affair (Sergio Paulinho, Isidro Nozal, Allan Davis, Alberto Contador, Joseba Beloki), as well as several others (Michele Scarponi, Marcos Serrano, David Etxebarria, Angel Vicioso, Unai Osa, Jörg Jaksche), and of course ex-team manager Manolo Saiz. The team therefore wouldn't have had enough riders to start.

In an official statement, Active Bay, the team's management company, confirmed the news. "In view of the content of the dossier sent to Spanish authorities, Active Bay has decided, in accordance with the Ethical Code signed between the UCI ProTour's teams, to withdraw from the Tour de France those riders that appear in the above-mentioned dossier.

"This decision is adopted without prejudice of the respect to the right to the presumption of innocence of these riders and of that Active Bay will exercise the actions for the defence of its rights and those of its workers. This measure does not concern the team's riders of the Tour de France that are not included in the dossier: Alexander Vinokourov, Andrey Kashechkin, Carlos Barredo and Luis León Sanchez. Nevertheless, the withdrawal of the riders that appear in the above-mentioned dossier implies that the Tour of France team will not have the minimum number of riders demanded by the UCI rules, which means the team will not be able to take the start tomorrow morning in the Tour de France."

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 07:57 AM

Well I have been telling you for a long time that this "Sport" has a long association with drugs.
I was told by a young Irish cyclist a very promising amateur, that he had to come home from Holland, due to the drug problem with his fellow riders, and this was nearly twenty years ago.

What do the powers that be in the cycling world do about this?, it seems very little, what a terrible indictment on the sport.

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 11:23 AM

It is said that a trial is a court procedure to determine who has the best lawyer...in the same way, a bike race has become a physical test to determine who has the cleverest doctors.

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 04:26 AM

Pity they didnt catch the last seven winners

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 01:13 PM

pooh! The last 7 winners was tested, followed, examined, accused, REtested and just flatly put under a microscope....he simply rode, trained, planned better and picked better teammates....and was lucky to boot.

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 01:26 PM

I tried to run him through a food processor, but Hardi wouldn't let me plug it in.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 01:51 PM

pureé of Lance? To absorb some of those high-energy genes?

Hardi was purty smart...

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 01:53 PM

slurppp

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 03:08 PM

(saw a long interview with him about his career and the T d'F....he says the famous 'look' at Ullrich wasn't actually 'at' him...just a look to see where his team was and what was happening....also that the fall from catching a bag held by a spectator was his own fault...just misjudged.)

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 03:40 PM

Damn. To me the "look" at Ullrich was one of the great sporting moments of all times. Another illusion shattered.

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: KateG
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 04:16 PM

So when are they going to rein in the spectators? Here's poor Thor Hushovd with his arm sliced open by a promo gizmo, and the mountain stretches have become a form of dodgeball between the cyclists and the nutters.

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 04:23 PM

yes, indeed, Kate...I cringe at the impunity with which idiots are tolerated..(I think I have early posts in this thread about it)

Maybe this injury will at least get them to PLEAD with spectators to **let the guys race!** and keep themselves and banners and plastic hands BEHIND the barriers & off the road.

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 07:01 PM

But Bill, it WAS a hand. A big green one.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 11:06 PM

From Stewie O'Grady's diary entry at cyclingnews:

It was a very hectic sprint finish and Boonen found himself in front with about 350 metres to go and he obviously wasn't going to keep going from there so that baulked the bunch up a bit and caused some riders to move right next to the barriers and that's where Hushovd ended up hitting something.

It's getting to the stage where you really have to think twice about sprinting right down near the edge of the barriers. People have been waiting around all day and they collect these handouts from all the sponsors like big hands and blow-up balloon sticks. They are going to wave them, that's why they're there.

It was quite ironic that it was a green paper hand from PMU who sponsor the Green Jersey that did the damage to the overnight leader of that competition.


See, the riders take the responsibility on themselves-- to not get too close to the crowd.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 01:33 AM

Drugs are present in every sportm including mountain biking.

Roland Green (a young friend of mine) said,

"Cycling has always been a victim of drugs. The press will always focus on drugs in cycling, I think. Drugs are just as prevalent in other sports, but there is a lot more money involved in those sports, so they won't focus on it.

Why cycling? There are a lot of great athletes, making next to no money. There are positive drug tests going back to Merckx and Hinault's times. Why don't you hear more about the (top) riders' positives? Money. In other sports, where the athletes get paid $10 million, they have the lawyers to fight for them, the system can't afford to have them go (get caught/sanctioned). The advantage just keeps passing to the riders with the most money. It is the small guys like Shep (Chris Sheppard) who get crucified.

Shep, now his opinion (against doping) is worth more now than ever, but not in Canada - we have the attitude that everything is so pure and clean. So he can't assist anymore. The (current system), I see a lot of waste, a lot of money that could go other, better ways.

The only thing that I have seen that is promising is the volunteer program, where athletes sign up and make their blood tests publicly available. If you could get more and more riders to participate, it might put more pressure on those that don't.

Other than maybe that, I don't know what the answer is."

From Canadian Cyclist.

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 09:05 AM

Hushovd did start this AM. Below, updates from cyclingnews.

~S~

----------------------------

Tour organisation bans PMU hands
On Sunday evening, after the hectic "sprint royal" finale of stage two in which prologue winner Thor Hushovd was thought to have hit a plastic cardboard hand which cut deep into his upper arm, the Tour de France organisation has announced that it will prohibit the use of the marketing giveaways in the last two kilometres of flat stages.

Certainly, fans leaning over the barriers and waving the objects pose another threat in the sprint finishes, which are already very dangerous. Other objects such as still or video cameras should not be held over the barriers either, as they represent the same risk. [There is actually some doubt over whether it was a PMU hand or another object, like a camera, that cut Thor Hushovd's arm - ed.]

Hushovd alright
Crédit Agricole's Thor Hushovd, who suffered a cut on his right upper arm in the finale of stage 1, has received several stitches to his wound in a Strasbourg hospital. He was able to leave the clinic at 19.00 in the evening. "Thor lost a lot of blood," said his DS Roger Legeay. "It was a terrible sight. The cut itself isn't that bad though. The doctors said that he would suffer more from the contusion, though. He won't feel so well in the next 5 or 6 days during the race." But fortunately, the Norwegian rider will be able to continue the Tour de France.

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 10:13 AM

It is impossible to control the spectators in this type of sport. Too many of them on a too long track.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 10:25 AM

agreed, Wolfgang, that total control is impossible....but attempts should be made to lessen the problem....and on several of the serious climbs where fools get out and and almost block the path and RUN along side the cyclists and pat them on the back, it has become a real issue. I have seen race leaders almost knocked over by photographers and zealous well-wishers. The race organizers 'could' limit this nonsense if they cared to...and a few arrests would send a message.

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 01:36 PM

With Valverde one more of the favourites is out now (injury after a fall). I wonder whether we'll see a winner who has never been mentioned in any of the previews.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 02:22 PM

Doping: Whether all remaining are doped or not all is the question, but noone believes those suspended are the only ones. I believe that Armstrong has been doped as well but I do not mind for I believe all relevant others also have been doped one way or the other.

Eighty percent of the German rather good cross country skiing team have asthma. Why? Because this diagnosis allows them to take medication that is also helpful in other respects. They all know the rules in cycling and the limits for substances in the blood) and try to keep under the limits but to go as far as possible. The present suspects have not been found out by controls (like Armstrong they were clever enough not to dope too much) but by bugged telephones, E-mails, lists etc. A test for doping would have been negative in all of them.

I favour a radically different approach. The present system forces them all to lie and if found out (mostly by a chance event) they lose their job. I'm not in favour of free doping, for we would have half a dozen dead cyclists this way. I'm in favour of blood controls to determine that they are under a dangerous level of substances. How close below that level and which way they went so close I wouldn't check. Only check for dangerous levels and exclude them in this case for their own safety.

The present system often leads to silly situations. They can't take any medication without cheking with a specialist. Even a medication for a cold that you and I would take without second thoughts can be considered doping. Do you read the silly excuses when someone has been found out? Ullrich some years ago was found with a bit too much of a substance on the doping list. He checked with his doctor what the best excuse was (which way the substance can have come into his body without intentional doping) and came up with a party drug he had taken out of sillyness at a party. This way he got a minor penalty.

Another silly case: A German runner very outspoken against drugs and for frequent test during training as well who had even mentioned some names of (German) colleagues whom he suspected for the sudden increase of running ability was found with a drug in his blood at a routine test. Most likely the drug has come into his body by a toothpaste that has been injected with the drug, prsumably by one of the colleagues who were fed up with his whistle blowing.

There are attempts at foul play in all sports by many means (playing foul, cheating with the material, bending the rules). For instance in Formula 1, Ferrari builds its cars in a way that is very close at the limits of the rules (some say, even on the wrong side of the limit). What would happen if this would be considered a cheat by the referees. They would lose the points from that race but they wouldn't be excluded from racing for two years. What happens if the luge in the Olympics is found to have been heated? The winner would lose his medal but could start again next week with an unheated luge.

I'm for the controls but I don't see why cheating with the substances in your body is worse than cheating with the material or cheating by taking a shortcut at Marathon (it has happened). If you are found out you are disqualified for the event but not for two years or even life. I'd opt for such an approach in cycling: If they are found out cheating (for instance: fill the cycle with ice for the weighing procedure which will melt during the race and make it lighter) you are disqualified for that race. If you come next time with a correct cycle you can race. I would agree with longer disqualification for actually hurting or injuring your opponent. Then it could be weeks or even months.

But which way you build up your muscles after an injury (a normal person would take at the doctors advice things that are forbidden to sportlers!) would be your choice as long as you do not damage your health. So the amount of substances in your blood or other body fluids should be lower than a limit. Your blood should not be too thick for that may kill you. But that would disqualify you for the race in question (better test before it starts) and usually not much longer. Close to all athletes in endurance sports take more substances than the usual human intake. Most of them are not yet known (the substances) and so it is not doping in one sense, other substances are only added to the diet in exactly that degree that is still below the limit. That's also not doping in the usual test (but it is if your telephone is bugged and you discuss with your doctor about it).

You cannot win a race only on substances without ability, training and determination. With "my" (I have heard about this idea in the radio) doping tests (exclude them for a race if there is danger for their health) they wouldn't have to lie. Armstrong could have told: Yes, beside all my exercises I take a bit of XY because that helps the regeneration after a long day of training. But in all the weekly controls I did not surpass the allowed limit.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 01:52 PM

With Mayo another one of the favourites mentioned in previews is out (27 minutes back).

Who's remaining?
Hincapie, Kloeden (never yet good this year), Landis (problems with his hip; he'll need an operation)?
Leipheimer (10 min back due to an awful contre la montre performance).

I wonder (again) whether we'll see a completely new winner, a dark horse or whether it'll be one of the usual suspects.

Tomorrow is the first real test with the famous Tourmalet as an appetizer before 4 col of the premier categorie, the last one being the finish.

We'll know much more tomorrow at this time.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 04:31 PM

It's gonna be a scramble, for sure! Perhaps the winner will be both pretty good.....and quite lucky! 'New' names on almost every stage, now.

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 12:00 PM

Landis looked like a sure winner to me yesterday when he took the yellow jersey but he had a jour sans today. The greatest surprise today for me was that Pereiro came back after his defeat yesterday. That boy had lost half an hour in the Pyrenees and only came in front by a 30 minutes advantage in a flat etappe for noone took him serious. That'll change now.

The first six are within four minutes and the winner will come from them. The dot jersey will go to Rasmussen most likely. The green jersey will go to McEwen (though his point advantage is not yet big). The white jersey is a close call between Fothen and Cunego. If Fothen survives tomorrow in white he'll take it in Paris. The most likely candidate for the yellow in Paris now is Klöden, but I would have said that about Landis yesterday with even more conviction.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 12:16 PM

Hard even for Flandis, without a team that can do for him what Discovery did for Lance.

Still, this has ended up being a highly watchable Tour.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 12:58 PM

It is a very unusual race with Lance, Ullrich and a couple of others out. I would not have believed that Pereiro would come charging back like that.

But I will reserve ANY predictions till after tomorrow, as there are still 5-6 who might pull surprises.

(well, except for Rasmussen, whe clearly locked up the Mountains title today.......unless he falls over. He scared me on that decent today!)

I am awed by Dessell, who is staying with it despite everything.

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Fidjit
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 01:54 PM

My money's on Sastre. 2nd. today and still getting better.

Chas

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 02:18 PM

It is worth looking at the performances of the riders at the first long time trial (a bit shorter than the one on Saturday; 52/57 km)).

I list only the time differences of the best eleven (still within ten minutes of the yellow today) of the overall competition and do not look at the best time trialists then:

(1) Landis
(2) Rogers    23 s back
(3) Klöden    42 s
(4) Menchov   43 s
(5) Evans    48 s
(6) Moreau    1'03
(7) Sastre    1'10
(8) Pereiro   1'40
(9) Zubielda 2'31
(10) Dessel   2'41
(11) Leiph.   5'05

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 02:59 PM

Well, Landis would have won the first time trial if he hadn't had a bike problem delaying his start and having to ride a different (less aerodynamic) bike at the last minute. So if he gets a lot of time back tomorrow, AND rides a good TT, he may still do it.

Secretly (now I'll be busted), though, I'm rooting for Klodi. I've always thought he was as good as Ullrich and deserved a chance for himself, with team support. Ultimately, it may come down to who has the better team riding in support.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 07:35 AM

BTW, Klöden had said to his team long before this Tour that it would be his last Tour as a helper of Ullrich that next year he'd seek his chance with his own team. Now this chance comes a bit earlier than planned.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 08:11 AM

Today, Landis attacks early at the first mountain. I wonder if he can keep up this speed. If he can he's in the game again.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 11:01 AM

What a comeback of Landis today. I wouldn't have thought it possible.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 11:15 AM

?!?!?!?!?!?

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 11:23 AM

The first three are within 30 s. More interesting than the last couple of years.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 11:56 AM

totally amazing today! He just went. Even Sastre was congratulating him.... The other's want to win; Landis talks like he INTENDS to win.

He is so good at time trials that he may manage that win. I'll bet there are some serious challenges tomorrow.

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 11:57 AM

I'm gonna have to see it all over again tonight before I can believe it!

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 12:09 PM

yup!....(I liked the interview...*grin*..."I had to do SOMETHING after yesterday")

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 02:11 PM

Un-be-freaky-lievable!

Very few (even here in his hometown) thought any human could pull off what Floyd did today.

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Fidjit
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 05:53 PM

What a day. Wow! Good man. Very impressive.
Sastre Too. Just 12 secs back.
Contre la Motre on Saturday. 57 km. Only 30secs. Could well do it.

Chas

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 06:05 PM

I think Lance is thinking "Gee, I'm glad he was working WITH me before!"...

And this may well be Floyd's last tour...no one has ever come back from a hip replacement and ridden competitively.....but....

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 12:13 PM

no one has ever ridden in his condition in the first place. Yegods, if anyone can come back after surgery, he can.

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 12:37 PM

As a great time-trialer, he is favored to gain a bit tomorrow, but wouldn't it be 'interesting' if they had to RACE seriously into Paris, as Le Mond did against Hinault? Some of those cobblestones are murder.

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 05:43 PM

Bill, I can't remember a serious race into Paris except the one time when the last stage was a time trial which LeMond won against Fignon.

Landis will get the yellow tomorrow (only a serious fall could prevent that).
The green jersey is safely on McEwen's shoulders as well as the dotted belongs to Rasmussen.
T-Mobile will remain the best team.
The last jersey, the white, is the most disputed with 5 sec difference between the first two. Same as the yellow, it'll be sported tomorrow night by a different man, Fothen.

There won't be a serious race the last day and McEwen should win the sprint.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Tour de France, Anyone?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 10:25 AM

Our diocese is electing a new Bishop today at the same time Floyd is riding the TT. They're posting each ballot result on their website as Phil and Paul update the split times.

I'm so excited I can hardly stand it!

If the suspense kills me, the first splits and ballots indicate that I'll at least die happy!

~S~