BS: lets develop Scotland

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 04:21 AM

Thanks, Al, I KNEW he was Nigel Farage.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 05:09 AM

Yeah, I smoke, don't understand economics and want to be out of Europe... If that keeps guest happy.

Although Musket has urges to set off fire extinguishers in the face of smokers, has been a government advisor on aspects of commerce in certain sectors and is a non executive director of companies he used to run in Germany, Italy and France. Probably got more Euros than Sterling if I broke the piggy bank and counted.

Naw, not Farage.. Fascism may deliver nicely pressed shirts and sensible haircuts but the detail I leave to crypto fools such as Akenaton.

In fact, I'm a socialist who has never voted anything other than Labour to date. Not afraid to vote otherwise but there you go

Who is the guest who thinks I am a racist neo fascist then? You see, Farage is to the right of the American Tea Party and anyone who voted for him is dangerous with a voting card.

What this has to do with a region of The UK, I don't know. The good people of Scotland gave Farage a less than friendly welcome the other month, I believe...

Except perhaps one Loch monster, who happily puts liberal and fascist in the same phrase. If someone can give him a second book to crayon in, he might start linking some other words too.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 07:17 AM

ha ha a socialist who would prefer a Tory Westminster government than a independent Scotland which would have the chance of a Labour government. Definitely Nigel Farage in disguise.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 08:25 AM

"I'm a socialist who has never voted anything other than Labour to date." - Musket

Ah got your start and your business or businesses going during the Thatcher and Major years, had made enough to grin and bear it during the catastrophic period of Boom-n-Bust of Blair-n-Broon.

Taking into account the Labour Party's track record in government since the end of the Second World War I would say that anyone who confessed to being a repeat Labour voter could be considered totally irresponsible and should be stripped of their right to vote.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 08:45 AM

You should be stripped of your fucking keyboard. That would be a positive step..

I got my business going in the days of.. {name any party / leader for UK / USA /Italy / Germany / France / Ireland / Singapore from 1989 onwards.}

The three of us who got it going created over 4,000 permanent decent pay jobs, and those who bought us out, or partly in my case, have added another 6,000+ jobs. Many in The UK.

For the last ten years, I have waived fees and salary for my NHS and Dept of Health work, donating in effect over £1.2million back into NHS care. I still carry out academic work pro bono, but have just stopped my other work in disgust at Jeremy Hunt's stewardship.

What have you done other than whinge about those who contribute rather than moan, as we seem to be getting our cocks out on the table?

Daft twat.

If it weren't for post war labour governments, you wouldn't have the cerebral process to form views. Education can be wasted you know...

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 02:34 PM

And a coo flew bye!!

Absentee landlord socialist!.....now there's a label to conjure with.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,Triplane
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 06:39 PM

Der Fuhrer (SNP) mitaus oberlippenbart "Alex Salmond" heute appeared on mein fernvoyoure mit keine necktie and flustered to give his boring flat denials to everything and anything anyone suggested was ein problem.
Gott in Himmel would you vote such ein manns ideas.
BTW what happened to our taxi driver humourist
BTW2 Al, would igloos not be a more appropriate than hotels in case Scotland ends up out in the cold. :<}

B V Richthofen (smiling)

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 02:12 AM

"I got my business going in the days of.. {name any party / leader for UK / USA /Italy / Germany / France / Ireland / Singapore from 1989 onwards.}" - Musket

That was the BFC's reply to my statement:

"Ah got your start and your business or businesses going during the Thatcher and Major years,

Now let me see Musket:

Margaret Thatcher - Prime Minister from 1979 to 1990
John Major - Prime Minister from 1990 to 1997

So according to your own trumpet blowing it would appear Musket that I was perfectly correct in stating what I did - Or are you too stupid to realise that? YOU DAFT TWAT (Your pet phrase - not mine).

I then went on to say that you:

"had made enough to grin and bear it during the catastrophic period of Boom-n-Bust of Blair-n-Broon."

Again according to you, you sold your business/businesses and then went into property, by this stage you have everything paid off so you are either living off your wife's income, or off your own investment income and pensions both Government and Private, so I would say that it would be extremely easy for you to work without pay (after all a mans has got to do something even in retirement), might cost you too much to do otherwise - Again I was correct in what I stated you had made enough to survive the catastrophic Labour Governments (1997 to 2010) that you voted for, Gordon Brown f**ked the old aged pensions of everyone in the country, but that wouldn't bother you would it - because you had made enough - So I was correct again - If anyone has demonstrated the characteristics of a DAFT TWAT it's yourself.

The shocking state of the near terminal NHS is nothing to brag about, and the thought of you teaching anybody anything makes me shudder. You appear to be the sort who would deliberately and maliciously set things down the road to destruction just to see the crash.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 02:27 AM

So everyone who set up businesses in a certain time frame is supporting the government of the time?

You are a weird fucker...

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 02:36 AM

Now then, you daft twat, where in anything I have written have I said anything even remotely stating that?

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 04:08 AM

Ian, Every empty or holiday let property you have, contributes to the difficulty experienced by our young folk in obtaining a house, to live in and carry out their employment from.

You and your ilk are a blight on this country.
You and your ilk are not as popular in rural as you seem to imagine.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 05:07 AM

Funny that.

The jobs are, according to the Scottish government, increasingly in the tourist trade. The incentives are for inward investment in that industry. Highlands even have covenants on many cottages for sale that they are only for short term holiday lets!

Yeah, your wonderful "once free of Westminster" SNP are my biggest fans it would appear. The ones I completed on in Fife last week? Local builders are awaiting my people to ask for bids. Each and every house has had at least three companies visit them prior to bidding for the refurbishment work I am offering. Cards from cleaners and other domestic services are clogging up the hallways.

If you want to look at bad landlords, instead of attacking those propping the country up, look at Dundee Council. They are worth a whole series of BBC Panaroma......

Funny how real Scottish people roll out the red carpet? Even in your own locality.

The demise of living locally is cyclic. I left the Derbyshire village I was born in, then left the mining town I served my apprenticeship in. You can't live on nostalgia. Following the money has been a constant since the stone ages. Where I come from, we have the caves to prove it.

Pricing people out of the housing market is a problem. So is lack of work. Holiday lets in nice geographic areas is at worst neutral, at best encouraging infrastructure.

Popular? I'm more popular than you for starters. I judge everyone on personal merit rather than wondering what they use their arse for. I encourage people to get on rather than whinge (hitting the wrong target) about how we are all doomed. Doomed I say!

Go and play with your friends on the bishop thread I created. You found a whole new set of admirers there with no help whatsoever. {chortle}

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 10:56 AM

Plenty of work in this area, most of it done by single Poles or Eastern Europeans living in sheds and being paid under the minimum wage....Economic migrants.

Our own young people who want to marry, have a family, buy a house, have no equality of opportunity. Houses are out of reach for most even if they could get a mortgage.

What do they do? some live with their parents, some drift off to the city, live in rented accommodation and watch life passing them by.

But fuck them Ian, you're alright, so all is well with the world.

We must be mad to want independence!

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 11:43 AM

Yeah, I'm alright. So are those who you reckon are watching life go by but in actual fact are getting on, contributing and enjoying.

You have it in for migrants doing the jobs others won't do? For someone who claims to work hard, you seem to want everybody else to have it easy.

Your young people have every opportunity, same as young people everywhere else. Scotland's economy is picking up slightly after the jitters earlier in the year when employers and investors thought independence might accidentally happen. The latest figures were published this morning. For those who can't "get on" Scotland has the highest per capita social bill of any measured region in Europe.

You are right. It seems the majority aren't mad after all....

Whether I am alright or not is irrelevant. Telling all and sundry they are doomed isn't alright. There are enough people sat in their underwear watching Cash in the Attic without convincing people that's all there is. You damn parts of society and tell the rest that they can't control their destiny. You are a right barrel of fucking laughs...

You haven't done too badly out of investors yourself if you are a local builder round your parts. Many local shops that elderly people rely on are still there because of the holiday lets down the street, not because your wonderful Scottish politicians have cohesive community strategies.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 02:41 AM

Most of the migrants working in this area are single men, here because they can earn three or four times what they can in Eastern Europe....they live in communal dwellings and send almost all their money back to their families.
The guys I spoke to say they have saved enough in 8 years to build a house in Poland.
A married man in Scotland could not live, never mind build a house on the wage rates quoted.
The truth is, we have a whole generation of young people who have been ignored by governments who are using immigration as a tool to bolster a failing economy.
Alex Salmond says he will increase immigration, but that will not work, a start must be made on training our young people, even if the rest of society are forced to take a hit in the process.

If we force our youth to rot on minimal benefits and do not provide a viable future for them, we are simply storing up trouble for the future.
However, if the problem is left in the hands of Westminster governments, there is no hope of future change, just more of the medicine we have been swallowing for decades.

Independence first, then we can make the politicians dance to our tune.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 03:01 AM

Interesting use of the word "our."

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 05:09 AM

I tink w all admire the many achievements of Musket. he is obviously a man of great resourceful ness and ability. well done to him. I can't imagine anyone with his lowly origins not being proud and contented with all that his career has encompassed.

but lets face it Ian. you are being less than honest with yourself about the present situations. its not good for lots of people.

I remember the first time I did a days supply teaching at a comp in Hucknall - . about 86. I was stuck at home - couldn't gig, after my hit record as Denise was too ill. i'd tried running a recording studio - but the technology moved too fast for anyone to keep affording.

my first day - and at break time. I was saying to another teacher how nice the kids were, the last teaching I had done was in Newtown , Brum. after big city kids -they were a delight.

this teacher said to me. oh yes the kids are lovely here. the only problem is, after the third year - they know they're going down the mines and the girls know they're going to marry a miner. and it is REALLY difficult to interest them in anything.

there are so many parts of England where education isn't really part of the traditional warp and weft of working class life. and presumably - you know all this Musket -its where you come from.

you aren't being priced out of a job by someone living in a shed. its buggered up wages for farm workers for years, England traditionally has a low wage economy. its not easy for people.

maybe its easy for tories getting cheap labour. and that's why Scotland needs desperately needs to get rid of the bastards, get them off their backs. we could do worse ourselves.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 05:41 AM

Al. You miss my point completely. Akenaton was complaining that no matter what you do, you're stuffed.

I go out of my way to ensure the youth of today doesn't listen to such attitudes. We already have three sometimes four generations of families who have never had work. But you know what? The coincidence of it all being not for the want of trying is beyond reason. If you listen to doom mongers, you are impressed by them.

You are right about the past. At my school, it was the pit, Batchelors or Co-op glassworks for the boys, Bairnswear for the girls. The careers teacher hadn't the vision to look beyond.

By bringing out my own experiences, I am not perpetuating privilege, I'm not even trying some old rags to riches shit, I'm saying that blaming governments for situations can only go so far. It amazes me how everybody thinks governments are effective at bad things and incompetent at good things. You can't have it both ways.

No such thing as Tory. No such thing as Labour. You vote, you get the government. Whether you make what you can out of life is as much down to yourself and those who put themselves forward as role models for you as much as policies decided a couple of hundred miles away.

It isn't about you, me or Akenaton. It's about encouraging people to do something about their lives rather than accept the lazy option of blaming politicians.

Scotland won't do better or worse by removing a layer of legislative decision making yet poor ignorant chumps such as Akenaton are taken in by weasely worded jingoistic claptrap from politicians, who prove their point by blaming err... Politicians.

I'm rather saddened to see you falling for political jam tomorrow. Yes, the present Conservative party is dangerous, especially post reshuffle and yes, Labour do not seem fit or ready to form a government yet.

But worrying about it just gives them influence they don't actually have... I've held positions where I have seen how deluded they are about their influence. The NHS in England alone has a million patient to clinician decisions each and every day, yet a junior minister sits agonising how much their decisions really change things. My time as an advisor was short because, in so many words, I kept saying "fuck all difference minister, just like your predecessor and probably like your successor." Not the best way of keeping your post...

If it helps I can either waffle endlessly about the bailiff telling us we could keep the pram or pushchair but not both, or how I was knocking on doors trying to sell "maintenance chemicals" on commission only with fuck all sales and a family. I decided to get off my arse instead.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 05:45 AM

Akenaton:
1: "Plenty of work in this area, most of it done by single Poles or Eastern Europeans living in sheds and being paid under the minimum wage....Economic migrants.

Our own young people who want to marry, have a family, buy a house, have no equality of opportunity. Houses are out of reach for most even if they could get a mortgage.

What do they do? Some live with their parents, some drift off to the city, live in rented accommodation and watch life passing them by."

Begs the following comments:
a If there is plenty of work why aren't "our own young people" as you refer to them not doing it?
b If "our young people" are living at home then they are one step better off than the Polish of Eastern European workers who must, presumably, be paying rent for their sheds, hired to them by "our locals" most likely. Or perhaps Musket could tell us if he also lets out sheds? ;0)
c What do they do? Get off their arses for a start and realize that the world and life does not owe them a living

2: "Most of the migrants working in this area are single men, here because they can earn three or four times what they can in Eastern Europe....they live in communal dwellings and send almost all their money back to their families.
The guys I spoke to say they have saved enough in 8 years to build a house in Poland.
A married man in Scotland could not live, never mind build a house on the wage rates quoted."

Bullshit – what one can do, then so can another. It requires sacrifice and exercising free choice. If the migrant can survive and save then so too could the Scot (We used to be famous for it). You will also find that you will not find the migrant worker down the pub, or outside it smoking or in the bookies

3: "The truth is, we have a whole generation of young people who have been ignored by governments who are using immigration as a tool to bolster a failing economy."

Free movement of the workforce has got nothing whatsoever to do with the British Government – the practice is part and parcel of being an EU member state. What we have is a whole generation of young people who have somehow got it into their minds that the world must operate and revolve round them pandering to their every perceived need and demand – unfortunately life isn't actually like that. We also have a whole generation of young people who have been brought up by their parents to believe that it is acceptable for them to weigh up the balance of life on benefits (Which they have never contributed to) versus working at whatever job is available then choosing which pays best – Wake up smell the coffee IT ISN'T – If you want to gain some working experience or if you want to acquire a work ethic then first you have to do some bloody work.


4: "Alex Salmond says he will increase immigration, but that will not work, a start must be made on training our young people, even if the rest of society are forced to take a hit in the process."

Just to make ends meet the Government of Scotland will have to attract and allow at least 500,000 more migrant workers into the country to work in both public and private sectors – They need the tax revenue and the national insurance contributions that allowing these people in to the country to work will eventually generate. No point in training "your" young people if those young people do not want to be trained and are only going to consider well paid jobs on their doorstep. You make decisions that directly affect your life with regard to increasing the options that will be open to you. Restrict yourself too much and all that is left is what is available and you take it – but sitting at home on benefits is not and should not be an option.


5: "If we force our youth to rot on minimal benefits and do not provide a viable future for them, we are simply storing up trouble for the future."

The only people forcing "our youth to rot on minimal benefits" are those youths themselves, their parents and people such as yourself – The State does not owe you, me, or anybody else a living.

6: "Independence first, then we can make the politicians dance to our tune."

Care to tell us how? The politicians you elect will do the same as politicians the world over do. They will con you into voting for them and they will then do all they can to keep hold of the power they have just acquired – You the voter and any of your wishes doesn't even enter the equation after that, until the next election when they con you again – easy to do because people like yourself and Musket are "traditional" voters (Musket admitting for voting for the Party of Blair twice and Broon once – even inspite of the clear evidence of damage they were doing to the country as a whole, apparently nothing would induce him to vote any other way).

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 07:35 AM

disagree Teribus.

the country owes no one a living. yes it fucking does!
my parents literally starved during the 20's and 30's. they were working family shovelling coal and shale for a bare living, whilst England clung to the gold standard, or whatever the monetarists called 'honest money' in those days.

then they were called onto fight for the dumb fucks who had armed Hitler.

the deal brokered was cradle to grave. if tory shitheads choose to welch on the deal and they have conned buggers like you to vote for it, the deal still stands.

they owe big time for all those tank crews outgunned by panzer tanks, incinerated in Plymouth and Coventry, the wholesale slaughter on the D Day beaches.........
they still owe. they will always owe. they need reminding of that every time they fuck up the economy and sell British industry down the river, for a tax rebate for the rich bastards.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 08:40 AM

Big Al Whittle - 17 Jul 14 - 07:35 AM

Bullshit Big Al - pure Bullshit

You are born and YOU are responsible for your path through life NO-ONE ELSE.

Ah but I forgot - you are a socialist - therefore your automatic default position is that is is - ALWAYS SOMEONE ELSE'S FAULT

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 10:34 PM

no Teribus...........not bullshit.

the culture and history of a caring society. its roots, which should be a source of pride to every true British patriot.

real patriotism....as opposed to the flag waving phoney fuckers in the tory party.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 01:15 AM

Whatever Big Al whatever.

I believe in encouraging self-reliance and on accepting responsibility. To far too many in the United Kingdom the culture of benefit dependence and taking the welfare system (Put in place to act as a temporary "safety blanket") for every penny they can get can is self-destructive and soul-destroying.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 03:14 AM

You think I voted Labour without considering others Teribus? Glad to see you know my mind. Just a pity you haven't read where I am a floating voter. One that has for local MP reasons always voted Labour.

In council elections, the conservative local cllr is active, visible and responds well. I wasn't in the country the last time she was up for reelection but have no problem whatsoever considering lending her my support next year. The local conservative MP fought hard and long for rural broadband and as of last week I went from <1Mb to 70Mb and have no issue congratulating his efforts. I wrote to say so. I couldn't however trust a conservative government with EU relations. I am a European by outlook.

Nationally, Labour did well domestically under Blair and sadly, only the war mongering will be remembered. Between them, they built up infrastructure and invested in the future. It wasn't sustainable, but the world market wasn't anyway. The only two things I blame Broon for are flogging gold at bottom price and, interestingly, increasing NHS spending a year or two too early.

I may feel strongly that young people need encouragement to get on rather than monkey see monkey do attitudes that promote reliance on the state and black economy, but I disagree completely with your assertion over temporary safety blanket.

Yin and yang. Not everybody can get on. I had an interesting couple of years helping inspect care and nursing homes. I also led on assessing prison healthcare and substance misuse services. That more than anything else cemented my view that we have a responsibility. We need to spend more, not less on those who slip through the net. But for that to happen, we need more contributors. More contributors means less benefit dependence.

Sadly, Westminster through Ian Duncan Smith have seen this as a draconian cost saving exercise and Scotland cannot afford any alternative.

It doesn't take politicians. It takes young people leaving school to be told this is the start of an adventure, grab it if you can.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 03:50 AM

"
I believe in encouraging self-reliance and on accepting responsibility. To far too many in the United Kingdom the culture of benefit dependence and taking the welfare system (Put in place to act as a temporary "safety blanket") for every penny they can get can is self-destructive and soul-destroying."

Mr T.....I think everyone here would agree with those sentiments entirely, but you must remember that huge numbers were "parked" on benefits when our manufacturing industries became uncompetitive and Scotland's oil revenues used to pay the bill.

As I have already said, people have lost patience with the merry-go-round of Westminster, where one shower of corrupt incompetents are succeeded by an even more incompetent shower.
We need to take responsibility for ourselves, just as you say, make our country and our economy work.....yes there will be those who have lost the work ethic or who have become just too dispirited to even try any longer, but Independence can be a new beginning.
Most Scots have an innate sense of national pride, and will make bloody sure whoever forms the first independent government don't let Scotland's name fall into the gutter us the United Kingdom's has done.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 04:09 AM

Many "liberals" were attracted to the Labour Party by the stench of Blair and his accomplices. Since then, we have had no functioning Party of the left, just another seat on the merry-go-round.

There are few conviction politicians any longer, especially in the "Labour" party, being filled by idiot rights campaigners and "socialist absentee landlords"........God help us!

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 04:49 AM

Liberals and rights campaigners.

Anyone else you wish to blame for your failures?

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 05:09 AM

It must be hard for someone who keeps saying "people around where I live" and then notice two gay Englishmen living down the road who intend to responsibly vote no.

That alone is worth a smile.

Mind you, I don't know where this absentee landlord stuff is coming from. He means me, but of all the titles I have, that certainly isn't one of them. I have no residential lets in Scotland. No intention of having any either. Holiday lets and student digs.

Can't have my premises being used as HQ for Sword and Shield eh?

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Stu
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 06:44 AM

"we have had no functioning Party of the left,"

Not strictly true. The Green Party is a fully functioning left of centre party that is very active locally and has one MP. The real issue for the Greens is the name; they need to reform and embrace the broad church of the left under a different banner as the Greens seem a tad anarchistic as a name. Their policies are progressive, achieved through consensus and consolation and most of all not centred around London.

As capitalism fails, the left would do well to unite to promote a more regulated approach to running the economy whilst encouraging entrepreneurship to flourish. We're not going to compete with the Chinese and Asians, and Africa is still to find it's feet (which it will). We need to look beyond the corporate politics of the right.

The thing is, as Teribus says, trusting virtually any politician is an exercise in futility these days and Scotland will be as vulnerable to their lies and obsfucations after independence as they are now. I'd vote to shake off the Westmonster yoke too, but the utopia of the north is a fantasy.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 07:17 AM

If you shook off a Westminster yoke, what would you replace it with, a Barnsley yoke?

Politicians tinker and the real controllers of destiny, commerce, take political proclamations too seriously. Government tries to be light touch and fails, yet ironically is as influential as if their light touch actually worked. Bankers worked this out years ago.

People used to ask why my company bought out and invested in a factory in Italy, given the Mickey Mouse politics there. Simple. Nobody takes Italian politicians seriously, except UK media who somehow think Italians are as fascinated by their politicians as we are with ours. The commercial interests in Italy get on with providing jobs. Competitively in terms of factory gate prices whilst providing higher than EU average wages. On the back of that success, a further 30 UK jobs in distribution.

They / we still do. (I stepped down 11 years ago but still a non exec')

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Stu
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 10:58 AM

"If you shook off a Westminster yoke, what would you replace it with, a Barnsley yoke?"

I don't live in Barnsley.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 11:03 AM

It's north of Watford.

Apart from Ray Padgett, no bugger else does either.

Tsk

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Stu
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 11:39 AM

"It's north of Watford."

I live north of Watford.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 01:35 PM

Congratulations. Here, have a black pudding.

I reckon there are a few thousand towns and villages far away from London, and I picked one at random. I have to admit, I certainly didn't expect anyone to read any further into it than that....

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 03:34 PM

i live north of watford - cockermouth, cumbria, scotland. not achmelvich - no-one lives in achmelvich

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 04:59 PM

Someone once told me that Achmelvich was like Arbroath without the smokies. Anyway...

Just had the immense pleasure of playing host to a family from Dunkeld. Who reckon Salmond is the devil incarnate. Up to now that is 7 Scots I know who will be voting no. True, I don't know many more but things are looking up for common sense.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 05:14 PM

2 of my children live in edinburgh and don't know anyone who is voting no. however, they don't expect the yes vote to win. maybe it's the old progressive v conservative and unionist argument again. and scotland, like the rest of the uk is, sadly, mostly small c conservative. shame, i think it would be interesting. surely we don't always have to be run by tories.......

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,Stuart Pond, north of Watford
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 06:03 PM

"Congratulations. Here, have a black pudding."

Why a black pudding?

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 08:40 PM

I think the big problem with your analysis Teribus is that it encourages government to be very idle - to shrug its shoulders and see nothing to be done. TINA to doing nothing.

if all our problems are due to the individual - then Thatcher was right to lose 28 per cent of manufacturing industry in one year. and as John Harvey Jones pointed out - some of tHose businesses were good businesses - they had problems - but it was irresponsible to just say nothing to be done.

governments do that too much anyway. its their duty to address the problems we face. not just walk away.

nothing to be done about the economically depressed parts of Britain. to use your own phrase...BULLSHIT!
its not individuals who need to get off their arses, its government. they're a bloody disgrace! Scotland couldn't do any worse on its own. it a beautiful country and its going to waste.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 02:58 AM

Achmelvich....don't lose hope, I agree very much about Scotland being socially conservative, but that is a positive in many ways.
Remember the huge last minute swing when the SNP came to power.

Scots don't like to be bullied or told how to vote by non-Scots, they seldom follow UK voting patterns.

Unfortunately there is some debris from the historic sectarian feud, which I thought had been binned long ago, allied to the English "carpetbaggers".....it'll be close.


Al....if we win our freedom, you are going to be made an honorary Scot

Big Al MacWhittle...   :0)

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 03:22 AM

"We" being people happening to live in Scotland as of a certain date in September. Salmond didn't even manage to negotiate a vote for Scottish people. Cameron wiped his arse with him in the negotiations. The only time Cameron has shown us he has a pair of balls and can win something.

Still, the opposition wasn't as hard as a room full of school children.

You know, I do blame Thatcher for lots and would dance on her grave if they had been foolish enough to give her one, even with my trademark miner's dodgy knees. But again, we blame her yet it was the stock market that kept the pound strong and UK manufacturing weak. Salmond is promising that Scotland would want a strong currency so the oil dollars get a good exchange.

I suppose next he will be saying a strong groat / whatever makes package tours from Prestwick more affordable.

Meanwhile, nobody wants to buy empty industrial units. I could have bought half of Cumbernauld (Deerdyke industrial area) for what I paid for a few old fisherman's cottages the other week, but industry is toxic until this blows over.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 05:17 AM

hello dave gnome

re: your friends frae dunkeld - are they being a wee bit hysterical here? salmond the 'devil incarnate'? really? i can think of a few people who seem a good deal more evil or dangerous than him. seems like a quite inoffensive and canny bloke to me. anyway, it's not a referundum on alec salmond. for scots with the choice to make, i recently read a bit about if you were thinking of buying your dream house would you choose not to if you didn't like the wallpaper in the front room? salmond is the wallpaper - buy the house and change the wallpaper. your friends need to calm down a bit -give them a large whisky or some free prescription sedatives

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 10:24 AM

In Victorian times, the wallpaper and paint was toxic and lowered life expectancy.

If the Celtic tiger {snigger} wins, you are stuck with the wave he will ride on all the way till grown up countries agree to bale Scotland out subject to the usual usury rates.

See the other "Celtic economies for details.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 11:01 AM

in what sense is scotland not a grown up country? do you think the current westminster lot have a grown up view eg of life; europe; human rights; the world? and you want these self-interested eejits to continue to 'look after' feckless wee scotland? you are a weird one.....

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 01:59 PM

You have to born in order to begin to grow up.

Scotland may have been a principality a few hundred years ago, but hasn't had an embassy since it set one up on the Darian venture. The rest of the world only knows Scotland as a country from Hollywood sources.

Least said soonest mended eh?

My point was that The UK is a player. When we make a stance, the world listens. Might have a laugh but it listens. Who listens to Bulgaria? After all, it is a country and is a present member of The EU.

Got a much higher population and land mass than Scotland and is strategically in an important place on the map.

That's what I mean by grown up. Influence. Something you need to turn groats into porridge.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 02:59 PM

i don't agree that 'influence' on the world stage is the most important thing. in fact compared to the well-being of the people in a nation it is of no importance whatsoever. the last time i can recall the uk making a stance on anything in europe was on the right to not cap bankers' bonuses. in my memory our government have never taken a stance on anything that was contrary to the interests of the american military/industrial elite.
whenever i see eg william hague making some portentious statement on eg syria it just seems pathetic. i imagine that not one government - or probably one individual - with real influence could give a damn what our spokesmen say. europeans despair at our attitude and americans know we will just agree so don't care.
understanding our place in the modern world and attending to what is most important are better indicators of being grown up.
england and scotland are great places for most of us to be but the mark of a successful and civilized nation is how it looks after the vulnerable and least fortunate.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 05:22 PM

I'm not worried that you agree or disagree.

You are entitled to your view as I am mine.

But to international trade, very important. Without The UK apron strings, even more so.

My cat calling and piss taking has a serious point. Without facts, it isn't a case of voting no, it is grossly irresponsible to vote at all. The referendum should be based on what independence means, not what a politician tries to convince people it means.

Saying others will change their stance whilst he will remain wedded to his is not what intelligent people will vote for.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 08:23 PM

Not only are the statements made by Mr Hague on foreign affairs, pathetic, but also dangerous and destructive.

The support for "liberal" elements in Libya and Syria have been a complete disaster and have led directly to the rise of radical Islam over the Middle East and North Africa.

The less we try to "influence world opinion" the better for everyone.

As far as trade is concerned, Scotland has nothing to fear. We are a strong brand, and produce services, energy, food and luxury articles that the whole world is eager to buy.
We have our history, beautiful land and seascapes etc, which will encourage tourism when properly promoted by a Scottish government.

Most importantly, we will have a government which reflects the will of the Scottish people....

It is interesting that those on this thread who are most strongly opposed to Scottish independence are those who have no vote and no real interest in the future of Scotland, or her people.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 09:27 PM

oh yes we all remember that.........the market that couldn't be bucked.

its right up there with the Jim'll Fix It medal.

you've heard of the ghost in the machine - that was the shit in the machine.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 03:13 AM

sorry,you've lost me there, al.