What should Susan Boyle sing next?

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 May 09 - 09:55 PM

Emma, I don't see the program here in the U.S., I just see a few clips. I don't watch the American version of all of those various competition programs. I am responding to the mega-hit that her YouTube video became and all of the interviews and expectations. The context of the program seems peripheral to me, I can see the world reaction as being something far more intimidating.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 May 09 - 03:11 AM

Re: 'Memory' Sounds like she has quite a problem with her upper register, or rather she's scraping the upper limit of her range which makes it sound ugly. Overall I dislike this woman's voice and lack of interpretation. Volume, does not translate as feeling to me. As a competitive performance, she didn't deserve to win anything. Though in her defense I've no idea what all the stress from the publicity must be doing to her. And I feel sorry for her too, I imagine the circus will soon be leaving town.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 27 May 09 - 08:34 AM

I don't think I'm being cynical at all.

I love to hear a good singer singing well.

I saw the first Susan Bpyle Audition and it only piqued my interest because everyone was making such a big deal.

I took a second look in case I had overlooked something and didn't see anything extraordinary.

I think the Panel were looking for another Paul Potts and they decided that she fit the bill.

I also think, and have thought consistently throughout that her appearance has been central to the way she has been marketed.

The way "Britains Got Talent" have sold her has been something along the lines of "wow - she looks like that yet she can sing nicely - amazing!!"

This approach I find utterly demeaning to her.

She has been sold to the public under the guise of a role model to big frumpy women, so that they too might feel that their lives are worth living.

How insulting!

Before people jump down my throat and accuse me of being unfair, I would like you to consider this Analogy.

When you think of Ella Fitzgerald, do you think "Big Fat Black Singer Ella Fitzgerald - role model to Big Fat Black women everywhere"

Or do you just think - "I think I'll rewind that song because it was brilliant."

And while we're drawing parallels, lets consider why Ella was considered such a good singer - she could do anything - touch you, energize you, make you laugh ... etc ...

In terms of repertoire Susan Boyle is a one trick pony.

But most importantly, from my personal point of view, Her voice is ok but I wouldn't pay to go and watcch her - and if she was performing in front of me I'd probably listen for a short while, but I would need to get out after the third song.

And that's without the gushing praise from the "isn't she amazing" brigade.

Finally, have another look at the audition clip on youtube and look at simons smile.

A more insincere slimy contrived facial expression I have never seen, yet somehow people are prepared to believe his acting.

Sorry if you disagree.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Smedley
Date: 27 May 09 - 08:56 AM

Lox, you have hit several nails on their heads.

Susan Boyle is not an especially gifted singer, though I wish her well as anyone in her situation deserves the opportunity to find success if the opening arises. Her particular 'style' is one that a lot of audiences currently admire, but to my ears it lacks finesse, subtlety, wit or genuine power.

Personally I blame Whitney Houston - a great singer until she started shouting a few bars into 'I Will Always Love You'. The world fell at her feet & ever since then, battering-ram bellowing has been mistaken for real skill.

And let's not forget the 'genre' of music S.Boyle seems to favour - middlebrow cod-operatics from stage shows that cater for those who think they're getting 'real culture'.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alan Day
Date: 27 May 09 - 09:04 AM

So let us consider the other side of the coin Lox,that this may not have been a set up, that she came out of a batch of thousands and impressed after giving a totally unexpected great performance.
I understand your cynical response and to many that are trying to pull the rug from under her feet. A not particularly good looking woman ,overweight and not particularly well dressed was marketed? Come on now Lux just think a bit more clearly about this.I totally agree with the dislike of the programme and the way the performers are exploited and ridiculed,but this lady has come from a little town in Scotland has shown that a nobody can set the World alight by her singing. A matter of choice if you like her voice or not, but good luck to you Susan,I for one would enjoy it very much if you win it. There are two spectacular dance groups to nip it away from her however.
Al

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 27 May 09 - 09:22 AM

Alan,

I hope she finds happiness in whatever she does and I wish her luck in the competition.

I didn't say whether or not I thought it was a set up, I have been ignoring that discussion and remain uninterested in it.

I do think however that the reason she was put through and featured so heavily in the TV show (when as you say thousands entered) was because of her marketability,

Her marketability is based on her media personality - a shallow construct based on her appearance and her place of origin.

Media personality is the key to all popular performers nowadays.

Everyone thinks they 'know' kylie - we have a soft spot for her regardless of her talent as a singer. This comes from our affection for Charlene from Neighbours.

Robbie Williams appeal again was based on his fans collective illusion that they knew him - they knew when he meant it and when he was taking the piss.

Reality TV shows like the X factor and BGT allow a media personality to be cultivated and sold. The decision about who to market and who to put through to the finals is made straight after the auditions and those people are followed by the cameras from day 1 till the final when we the public have to decide which one we like the best.

The other Yesses are ignored and filtered out slowly but surely, leaving us wwith the illusion that "our" favourites have made it ... "YESSSS!!!!" ......

Susan Boyle is all about the hype. The touching story, and its west end musical soundtrack and moments of triumph, despair and shared anticipation and nerves is all completely and deliberately contrived.

If this was a talent show in your church hall, local community centre, song circle, session or open mic night, she would get polite applause and little else.

Watching Simon Cowell go on - weeks later - about how he wants to apologise for thinking that she was a joke when he first saw her cos she looks so awful etc was about the most nauseating bit of emotional engineering I have witnessed outside hollywood.

Guys, the empress isn't wearing any new clothes.

Thankfully she kept the old ones on.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 May 09 - 10:43 AM

Lox, you're so busy deconstructing the media martketplace you forget that many who viewed Susan's video DON'T get or DON'T WATCH the program(s) that pit one contestant against another. The response to her YouTube video was something all out of proportion to the program itself, way beyond what you describe in your pros and cons media nanny cogitations. Not everyone is as gullible and shallow as you suggest, and her performance broke free of the armature of the "talent show" weeks ago. This isn't about Britain's Got Talent. This IS about a lot of people who happen to think that Susan has a beautiful voice and is, if allowed, going to emerge into the music world as a mature performer with a rather fairy tale aura. Susan's gifts are very real, Smedley, as I think you and many others will come to recognize sooner rather than later, once the nonsense of these television programs is over with.

What you're missing is the most important moment in the first audition, the moment when Susan finished singing and turned around to walk off of the stage before the judging began. She went out there to sing. She didn't expect to win, she proved something to herself, but if she was accustomed to being judged by her looks, she apparently (possibly) assumed this was as much as she was going to get out of the program where beautiful people generally reign. She had a chance to prove she could sing to a big audience and she took it. Forget the game show blather. Let her get past the incredible pressure of competing, and she will shine.

Personally I blame Whitney Houston - a great singer until she started shouting a few bars into 'I Will Always Love You'. The world fell at her feet & ever since then, battering-ram bellowing has been mistaken for real skill.

No Whitney wasn't the first. I was disappointed with several of Barbra Streisand's albums during the 80s and early 90s because she seemed to be bellowing out her songs, not singing. They were way too loud.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Smedley
Date: 27 May 09 - 11:41 AM

No Whitney wasn't the first. I was disappointed with several of Barbra Streisand's albums during the 80s and early 90s because she seemed to be bellowing out her songs, not singing. They were way too loud.

-----------------------------

You may be right (I've never knowinglyheard any post-1970s Streisand) but the Houston single was a multi-million-seller, regrettably, so I'd wager it had more influence than Babs.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Goose Gander
Date: 27 May 09 - 12:15 PM

Why are we discussing Susan Boyle on a folk/traditional/blues site? Bad threads drive out the good, and we really don't need anymore like this one.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Smedley
Date: 27 May 09 - 12:21 PM

Because people have opinions on music across the generic spectrum, perhaps ? And the number of posts on this thread as opposed to some purely 'trad' ones tells its own story, I think.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 May 09 - 12:45 PM

Michael, there are a couple of others who have made a similar complaint. We've told them the same thing I'll tell you. If you don't like the thread, go participate on one you do like. It's that simple.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 27 May 09 - 12:58 PM

"The response to her YouTube video was something all out of proportion to the program itself, way beyond what you describe in your pros and cons media nanny cogitations."

The youtube clip includes the Ant and Dec preamble with emotional music soundtrack, it includes the edited crowd giving its 'spontaneous' standing ovation, Amand Holden wiping tears of unrestrainable emotion from her cheeks as Piers and Simon exchange meaningful looks and Ant and Dec burbling about how "I bet you weren't expectin' that pet" - all beautifully edited and it includes the whole post performance hype that came from the judges and of course from Ant and Dec, with continued triumphant emotional soundtrack and then of course the judges 'offstage' comments "wow she was amazing" etc.

To suggest that the youtube viewers were immune from the hype is therefore not true.


"the moment when Susan finished singing and turned around to walk off of the stage before the judging began. She went out there to sing. She didn't expect to win,"

Or she might just not have known what to do next ... how does anyone know which of the millions of possible reasons for doing that was her actual reason.

She wasn't there to win?

She entered a competition and she competed.

Your comment above refers to your emotional response, and you are projecting onto her your belief about what her motives are and about who you think she is - It may be coincidence that the personality you are attributing to her is the same that is being hyped in the media.

In reality, you know her as well as I do - that is to say not at all.


"but if she was accustomed to being judged by her looks, she apparently (possibly) assumed this was as much as she was going to get out of the program where beautiful people generally reign. She had a chance to prove she could sing to a big audience and she took it."

Last year, when Paul Potts won, Simon cowell rubbed his hads together and thought to himself 'wow - here's an unexpected money spinner - non typical looking performers who can sing'

Have you seen slumdog millionaire? the scene where the little boy who can sing is blinded by an organized crime boss?

Well that stuff really happens. Why? Because people love to be moved to tears by the beautiful singing voice of a little blind boy as opposed to a little sighted boy, so the organized crime boss knows he'll be worth more money blind.

Simon Cowell sees Paul Potts raking in the cash all over the world (because of youtube? again?) and he sees a similar opportunity in Susan Boyle.

Now its timee to honestly ask yourself this question.

Which came first - the "youtube phenomenon" or the news story ...

... and who paid for the news story to become news? ...



Susan Boyle is not a bad singer.

But there are thousands of better ones.


She will go the same way as Michelle McManus of Pop Idol fame.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 May 09 - 02:12 PM

My Gawd, I have never seen such a massive collection of mean-spirited nay-sayers--not to mention lousy judges of singing voices! Incredible!

Case in point: "Sounds like she has quite a problem with her upper register. . . ."

Speaking as one who has been studying voice off and on since I was a teenager and listening to all kinds of singers, from gut-bucket to pop to rock to blues and folk (especially), on through Broadway musicals, Grand Opera, and art song, I think I know something about singing voices.

And I can say, with the full assurance that I would be backed up by the vast majority of voice teachers and singing professionals that, not only does Ms. Boyle have a genuinely fine singing voice--a considerably better voice than many well-known professionals--but that her upper register is her really strong suit.

She got off to a slightly wobbly start in "Memory" and then got it together. This was not due to any defect in her singing voice or flaws in vocal technique, but to sheer nervousness! And who could blame her, considering her lack of experience in singing before a large audience and on national television and with the whole world looking on and judging her?

No bloody wonder she was a bit nervous! Wouldn't you be? Could you do what she did, anywhere near as well as she did it?

All she needs is more experience singing before large audiences. She has the voice and she knows how to use it well, and she has a good musical sense. Give the woman a chance, for cryin' out loud!!

Most of what I read here is just sour bloody grapes!!

Don Firth (spitting nails at the sheer pettiness of some of the comments here!)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 27 May 09 - 02:24 PM

'And I can say, with the full assurance that I would be backed up by the vast majority of voice teachers and singing professionals that, not only does Ms. Boyle have a genuinely fine singing voice.....'

In fact Don, here in the UK at least, West End professional singers etc have consistently and, as far as I've seen, unanimously said that her voice doesn't have what it takes for the professional stage but, as you claim she has 'a considerably better voice than many well-known professionals' I suppose they are all suffering from 'sour bloody grapes' too

Simply disagreeing with your opinion Don does not make any poster here 'petty'

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 May 09 - 02:29 PM

And--I don't care diddly-squat about how she looks.   Or all the hype, or whether the show is phony, or who the money-grubbing carpetbaggers might be, or any of that.

I am listening to the lady's singing voice and the way she uses it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 May 09 - 02:33 PM

Her voice is fine, Emma B. All she really needs is a little experience to get it all together.

Maybe some of the West End professional singers you cite are a bit nervous?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 May 09 - 02:36 PM

Lox, again, you're wrong. I'm projecting nothing. I've listened to her interviews, I'm not reporting something imagined. Why do you need to turn pleasure at this development into a character flaw of anyone who professes to enjoy her voice and understand her story?

Your comment above refers to your emotional response, and you are projecting onto her your belief about what her motives are and about who you think she is - It may be coincidence that the personality you are attributing to her is the same that is being hyped in the media.

I don't know Ant and Dec from anyone. I'm really not interested in the tears or smiles of the judges. I watched Susan as she delivered the song. And I've listened to her very nice version of Cry Me A River. If you don't know how to filter out the noise (the above mentioned tears and smiles and remarks), I don't know how you're going to understand the point I'm trying to make, or even understand why many people are so pleased with her performance.

Her premature stage exit isn't something I alone remarked upon; if you read through these threads and other conversations, you'd know that the first performance was a challenge to herself to get out there to sing in front of a large audience. Her voice teacher urged her to do it. While that performance is NOW a turning point in a more complex story, this story from that point is not something that Susan expected. I saw the Paul Potts performance, and am aware that his career has been launched from a similar contest stage performance. I don't know how Susan compares herself to Potts, or if she thought she had a chance because he made it. Interviews haven't covered that question. To pronounce the entire program and system as corrupt, calloused, calculating, whatever, is stating the obvious. If you see the performers and viewers as equally corrupt or their reactions suspect, then perhaps very little makes you happy in this day and age.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 May 09 - 02:40 PM

Thanks, Don, we cross posted. I know of your background, and know that you have one of the finest singing voices I've ever heard. Your praise speaks volumes.

Who are these under-impressed "West End" singers? Can you cite some names? The ones I heard interviewed were impressed with her work, as was Patty LuPone, who performed the same song on Broadway when it debuted here in the U.S.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 27 May 09 - 02:46 PM

'Her voice is fine, Emma B. All she really needs is a little experience to get it all together.'

Don, you are entitl;ed to your opinion as others are entitled to theirs without being termed 'mean spirited' etc because they don't happen to agree with you

I believe she needs a great deal more than 'a little experience' but I'm not calling you names because you disagree with me - ok?
I'm just questioning your statement that you have absolute assurance professionals and voice teachers would agree with you as the generally held and stated opinion amongst such people doesn't seem to bear this out.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 27 May 09 - 02:58 PM

'Who are these under-impressed "West End" singers? Can you cite some names?'

I have already posted links SRS but.....

from one report on April 18th

'THE combination of her dowdy appearance and angelic voice may have captured the imagination of the nation, but Wales' West End stars last night poured cold water on Susan Boyle's chances of becoming a bona fide musical star.....

John Owen-Jones, who was the youngest ever Jean Valjean and has played the part several times in the West End and on Broadway, said Boyle was no more talented than dozens of other West End wannabes.

"I'm starting to get sick of people like her because there's lots of people in the West End who can sing like her and work hard at what they do", he said.

"She has a good voice and there's nothing wrong with it, but it's not trained and she couldn't do eight shows a week in the theatre.....

While being rather more complimentary about her talent, Stifyn Parri, who played Marius for two years at the Palace Theatre in London, said Boyle's voice wasn't strong enough to convey her to the country's top theatres.

"She hasn't got the best voice in the world", he said. "I don't know if she has the potential to be in the West End but she's certainly got what the public are looking for."

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 May 09 - 03:08 PM

"No bloody wonder she was a bit nervous! Wouldn't you be? Could you do what she did, anywhere near as well as she did it?"

Yes, everyone doing a competition gets nervous. I guess that's a part of it. As to doing what she does - I wouldn't want to. In point of fact, and this is the bit where you get to roll your eyes in disbelief and pull faces (off camera - so no worries about receiving death threats), I really wouldn't want to swap my voice for hers. I just don't like it - I find it brash, cheap and unattractive. I've no desire to sing show songs on big telly comps either. I'm more than happy in pubs singing traditional folk songs. Other people are entitled to express a less than glowing review, without it being considered bitching or jealousy. She's put herself in a competition purposefully, in order for others to judge her ability - I personally find it wanting.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: ClaireBear
Date: 27 May 09 - 03:12 PM

Yes, Don, to everything you kust said. A brilliant upper register once she's relaxed into it.

I'm thinking she'd do well with a showtune with a long, lazy intro before the vocal acrobatics begin, so she has time to get comfortable. That would get her past what I'm sure will be the paralyzing fear of the final.

Her voice is really good once she's comfy, but I'm afraid she won't get away with a wobbly beginning again.

Claire

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 27 May 09 - 03:33 PM

"Why do you need to turn pleasure at this development into a character flaw of anyone who professes to enjoy her voice and understand her story?"

I haven't said one word about anyones character.

I've said that I think Susan Boyle is overrated and that she owes her fame to cynical hype.

I've also wished her well and good luck in the competition.

Do I see the performers as corrupt?

Well what did I say - That I know her as well as anyone else here ie not at all.

So I haven't made any cooment on her character except that I don't know anymore about it than anyone else here.


As for the audience on the clip ...

... watch it again honestly and tell me that that is an honest audience response ...

She's a nice singer.

She isn't any more than that.

The rest is fluff.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 May 09 - 04:03 PM

Clearly this thread was set up for people to speculate on Susan's future success. Those who don't like her or wish her well need to move along. Trolling is so unattractive.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 May 09 - 04:19 PM

Crow Sister, it appears that what it amounts to is that you don't like the kind of songs Susan Boyle sings. Okay, fine. But that doesn't mean that she isn't a very good singer of those kinds of songs. There are people who can't stand opera, but their dislike of singing voices like those of, say, Ramon Vargas, Anna Netrebko, and Dmitri Hvorostovsky does not mean that these three internationally famous opera singers are not brilliant singers. If they don't like listening to the music these three sing, then obviously they are not in a position to judge.

I can hear a brilliant, almost "silvery" quality to Susan Boyle's voice (it's impossible to really express this sort of thing in words, you just have to be able to hear it) that many well-known singers who sing the same kind of songs simply do not have. Does she have the best voice in the world for the kind of songs she apparently likes to sing? No. But it's certainly up there with some of the better voices. And as far as her voice not being big enough for musical theater, that's simply not the case. Even on the YouTube soundtracks (and my computer has a set of excellent Altec-Lansing speakers, complete with sub-woofer, by the way), you can hear the size of her voice when she lets it out, just as you can with the opera singers I have linked to above. And I can tell the difference between electronics and natural reverb.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 27 May 09 - 04:42 PM

Trolling isn't attractive.

Neither is putting words in other peoples mouths.

And now that you've finished putting words in my mouth perhaps you could refrain from calling me names.

Plus, if you read my posts again you will find that I have speculated on Susans future success as well.

So to remain on topic -

I think that once the market has finished revelling in the post-audition hype, she will discover that it doesn't have a place for her - which I might add isn't fair as she has done nothing to deserve such treatment - but I think it is a reality.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 May 09 - 04:54 PM

Lox, you give with one hand and take with the other. Don't expect us to accept your suggestion that those who respond to your negative observations about Boyle are really only misreading your positive ones.

Your remarks are what is, at best, called "damning with faint praise." No one is fooled.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 27 May 09 - 05:20 PM

SRS, I think if you read back on the various threads you will find that many people wish Susan Boyle well without crediting her with a world class voice.

I, for one, hate the exploitation and manipulation of the TV show and the draconian contracts it imposes on contestants not to mention the very nasty ritual humiliation which characterizes the programme as well
I also find the cynical promotion of a 'fairy tale' by a highly paid and sucessful publicity machine distasteful and very disturbing.
Like Lox, I hope sincerely that Ms Boyle comes out of this circus emotionally intact.

As for 'trolling'.....

'In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response'

Now I don't consider my opinion of a singers voice to be either controversial or infalmmatory - it's simply an opinion like yours, Dons or Lox's

Unfortunately the practice or combining threads results in discussions going 'off topic' from the original posters intentions (a typical example can be seen in the recent BS thread about retaining a friendship with a BNP member)

The only examples I've seen of 'provoking other users into an emotional response' however is the name calling of people who just don't share the view that she is a 'world class' singer and the attribution of the meanest motives to them.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 May 09 - 05:29 PM

I think she would interpret Jerome Kern well.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 May 09 - 05:29 PM

Fair enough Don. We are clearly hearing different things. I don't enjoy the voice I hear, and you do. I do hear distinctly unpleasant tones at the top end in particular. I do however think she could do West End quite well (I hope she gets some kind of reasonable career out of all this), and that her voice and style of singing certainly suit the material she likes to sing.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: breezy
Date: 27 May 09 - 05:40 PM

Lox talks bolls,

did you get it ?

There was no hype, there is no hype.

Wobbly start agrred but recoverd well to finish strongly

Go Susan go

Me mam won cups for singing !

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 27 May 09 - 05:52 PM

"Don't expect us to accept your suggestion that those who respond to your negative observations about Boyle are really only misreading your positive ones."

Ok - if I ever make such a suggestion I will be sure not to expect anything from you, just as I have no expectations of you now.

In the meantime, I would really appreciate it if you would stop putting words in my mouth.


I have given my point of view which is in two parts.

1, I think she is ok - nothing special.

2, I think the reason she is so successful is down to media hype as I have described above.

If I met her I would say "I think you sing very nicely" and I would wish her luck.

If she asked me "Am I really that unique" I would honestly tell her that I didn't think so.

No review has ever commented on the appearance of Dame Kiri Tekanawa or Ella Fitzgerald, except maybe in brief reference to what they were wearing, as to do so would be trite and shallow.

I could listen to either of them all night and be moved without the assistance of a sob story and a panel of gushing judges.

It is my opinion that Susan Boyles singing is unmoving without those things.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 27 May 09 - 05:56 PM

"Lox talks bolls,"

Your opinion - fair enough.

"There was no hype, there is no hype."

yes ... and God made the earth in seven days before putting dinosaur fossils in the ground to test our faith ...

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 May 09 - 10:26 PM

Why don't you go start a "why we don't really like Susan Boyle" thread, and quit harping on this one? You say words are being put in your mouth, I say not--with what you put on the page, and with those big gaps you leave for reading in between the lines, you're not kidding anyone.

Where's Alice with all of her great links to interviews? They'd be very welcome about now!

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 28 May 09 - 02:39 AM

The woman's put herself in a competition where she's deliberately inviting the public to judge her performance.
This thread was about what should she sing next in that competition.

Well now she's sung again, and she sang Memories.

I don't think she deserved to win the last round, based her performance of the song 'she sang next'. Others obviously do.
Her story isn't a big personal drama or sob story, she's just an average looking woman, with a strong but not exceptional voice (IMO), who has gained a lot of publicity from a TV show.
But in my humble, you do seem to be getting your knickers in a bit of a twist there Stilly, and over not very much. You don't seem to be able to endure any comment on her performance, which isn't glowing. Boyle still has a huge following, and I hope she does alright out of all the coverage.

Anyway, I'll leave the thread to fans. I've avoided personal bickering on here for the most part, and I don't plan to get drawn into any now.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 28 May 09 - 06:21 AM

'Anyway, I'll leave the thread to fans'.....

Think I'm with you on this Crow Sister

"A fan(actic)* is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 28 May 09 - 06:23 AM

"You say words are being put in your mouth, I say not"

Here are some words that you have put in my mouth.

"your suggestion that those who respond to your negative observations about Boyle are really only misreading your positive ones."

Please show where I made such suggestions.

"Why do you need to turn pleasure at this development into a character flaw of anyone who professes to enjoy her voice and understand her story?"

Please show where have I commented on anyones character?

"If you see the performers and viewers as equally corrupt or their reactions suspect, then perhaps very little makes you happy in this day and age."

Where did I say that the performers were corrupt?

How does this reflect on my happiness?

"Lox and Greg, you're being very cynical"

Why? because we don't think she's amazing like you do?

"Those who don't like her or wish her well need to move along."

Why? You said that "this thread was set up for people to speculate on Susan's future success".

So basically what you're saying is that if I disagree with you then I am not welcome.

You are also saying that if I disagree with you it can only be because I think there is something wrong with the character of people I disagree with, I am just very cynical or I am lacking in happiness.

The only person talking about character here is you and you have referred to mine in the quotes above. I have not said anything about your character.

Let me ask you a question:

Why have you needed to turn disagreement with this development into a character flaw of anyone who professes not to be particularly impressed by her voice or to know anything her story?

"with those big gaps you leave for reading in between the lines, you're not kidding anyone."

My first post was one line long. It said that I thought she was overrated.

Your response to it was to call me cynical, then to make comments (as shown above) about my character, then to call me a troll.

At first I humoured you and explained my thinking.

Now that I see you are just trying to drive away a dissenting voice (as quoted above) I will not bother to explain anything else to you.

You're behaving like a spoilt teenager who isn't getting her way.

Grow up!

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 28 May 09 - 06:33 AM

Argggh! She's made it to the cover of The Radio Times! Maybe if SRS lived over here she'd see things in a completely different light...

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: evansakes
Date: 28 May 09 - 07:05 AM

I watched Susan Boyle's audition appearance on YouTube and thought it was pretty spectacular. Her naivete coupled with the preconceptions of the audience and judges only added to the emotional impact that night.

We then watched her first proper performance at the weekend and it was something of a reality check after all the hype. Maybe nerves and the weight of expectation got to her. Her intonation at the beginning and end was actually poor (though the middle bit was much more confident and assured). I suspect if she was auditioning for a West End show that she'd not have been successful

I think she did herself no favours by choosing 'Memory'. If she picks the right song I think she'll still be favourite to win in the final.

I thought the biggest injustice was the ventriloquist (who did Pavarotti) being overlooked in favour of the pretty boy who contorted his face throughout the U2 song. Even through clenched teeth and with a deadpan expression he clearly had a far superior voice and talent (and would have given more pleasure at a Royal Variety Show)

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 May 09 - 11:22 AM

I'm annoyed by those who want to turn appreciation and support of this singer into an indictment about my personal life, my imagination, my fairy tales, whatever people are choosing to lob into the conversation. I'm doing just fine, thank you, and would like to see a lucid, supportive discussion and not the usual fan hype (you can't get far through the YouTube remarks before you've seen a lot of nothing). So is that unreasonable? I've tried to keep the thread on the subject, and there are folks who enjoy taking pot shots to see if they can change it, and once again, several of you have. How many times will Lox come back and act like butter wouldn't melt in her/her mouth, clarifying nothing, just to poke at the non-subject some more? Don't act like I'm the problem, or some starry-eyed fan. Get a life, you guys, and if you don't like Susan, go write about it elsewhere. What don't you understand about that simple request?

But wait--this is more about the last word, the annoying remarks to see you can change the topic again. So I guess we'll see more of the nothing you have to say that is worth saying until you get tired of it. This is my last word on the subject.

SRS

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 28 May 09 - 11:54 AM

"How many times will Lox come back and act like butter wouldn't melt in her/her mouth, clarifying nothing, just to poke at the non-subject some more?"

Erm ... well as you have asked a question about me ...

I hadn't planned on poking anything ...

... I think I've shown pretty conclusively up above that you've been the one doing the poking ...

why?

Well it seems to be because I said I don't rate Susan Boyle like you do.

"I'm annoyed by those who want to turn appreciation and support of this singer into an indictment about my personal life, my imagination, my fairy tales, whatever people are choosing to lob into the conversation."

Can you provide an example of anyone doing these things? ... cut and paste should do it.

I have provided examples in my previous post of you doing it to me ...

You can check if you like.


I would suggest that if you don't want it poked, don't poke it yourself.


In the meantime, why don't we just agree to disagree, declare a pax and move on.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 May 09 - 04:56 PM

God save the Queen.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 28 May 09 - 05:11 PM

"Can you provide an example of anyone doing these things? ... cut and paste should do it.
I have provided examples in my previous post of you doing it to me ..."

Guilty as charged, I did publicly accuse Stilly of having her "knickers in a twist." Ooops..

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Alan Day
Date: 28 May 09 - 05:53 PM

Well it has been reported tonight on ITV News that Susan has threatened
to quite the show because of all the sniping. So the pressure is getting to her. I expect this will be seen as part of the "Marketing Plan" by some,but it is a sad thing that she has been upset by some people having a go at her because she has a chance to win it. If she does appear then it will be down to her performance on stage that will get her the public vote or not.
I did not enjoy the show tonight.
Al

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 May 09 - 05:55 PM

I repeat,she must sing, God Save The Queen.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 May 09 - 06:12 PM

From the Telegraph.co.uk

Susan Boyle 'considered quitting' Britain's Got Talent

Susan Boyle has considered quitting Britain's Got Talent altogether due to the pressures of fame, show judge Piers Morgan said.

Morgan launched a defence of the 48-year-old, dubbed the 'Hairy Angel', who is the favourite to win, saying that she has been in "floods of tears" this week and suffering from almost crippling nerves.

Writing on his internet blog, Morgan said that "frightened rabbit" Boyle had fleetingly felt like throwing in the towel to escape all the attention.

He said that reading bitchy comments about her had made him feel "very, very angry".

He wrote: "Susan is finding it very, very difficult to cope, and to stay calm.

"She has been in tears many times during the last few days, and even, fleetingly, felt like quitting the show altogether at one point and fleeing all the attention.

"She's had to read stories and columns, and listen to radio and TV phone-ins, calling her arrogant, insincere, spoiled, fake, mad and so on.

"Now, I have been called all that and worse in my career, but I spent 20 years in Fleet Street and know how to deal with it.

"Susan Boyle has never experienced anything like this and is like a frightened rabbit in headlights."

The finalist lost her temper in the lobby of the Wembley Plaza Hotel in north London after being "wound up" by two strangers.

Police stationed at the hotel intervened in the situation.

Boyle was photographed talking to two police officers in the car park following the incident.

A spokesman for Boyle said: "The police were escorting a journalist from the premises who had been winding Susan up. Susan and her sister were talking to the police telling them what had happened."

Speaking to Nick Ferrari on LBC 97.3 radio, Morgan described the church volunteer as "an incredibly sweet, nice, gentle person who has been propelled through this show.

"Suddenly, a month later, she's the biggest star on the planet and I don't say that lightly...

"Anybody who has gone through that incredible transformation is going to be feeling the most unbelievable pressure, not least of which because the final is on Saturday and she knows that everything may rest on that one performance and you could see the nerves almost crippling her on the semi-final show and I just think it's time that everyone slightly backed off...

"Knowing her as I do, she's been incredibly upset this week. She's been in floods of tears."

Boyle, from Blackburn, West Lothian, was propelled into the spotlight following her audition for the ITV talent show, singing I Dreamed A Dream from the musical Les Miserables.

She went on to become a global internet sensation, scoring millions of hits on video site YouTube and gaining celebrity support including that of Hollywood star Demi Moore.

Morgan told the radio station that talk of Boyle's hotel outburst had been "massively exaggerated...

"She is getting this ferocious attention and my heart does go out to her a bit.

"She is really upset about all this and apparently she's really upset that she may have offended me.

"You know what, Susan, all you have to concentrate on now is doing an amazing performance on Saturday.

"You're the red-hot favourite. There are people who want you to fail.

"There are people who want to snipe at you, who want to kick you because now suddenly you're so popular.

"All she has to do is do a great performance."

Boyle will compete for the chance to perform at the Royal Variety Show.

The semi-final stages continue today, with sax sensation Julian Smith tipped to make it through to the final showdown.

The 39-year-old from Birmingham will be joined on stage by grandfather and granddaughter singing duo Two Grand aka John Neill and Sallie Lax, aged, 76 and 12 respectively, from Doncaster and punk pop act Brit Chix from Boston, Lincolnshire.

Breakdancing OAP Fred Bowers, dancing dog act Jackie Prescott and Tippy Toes, from Oxford, and dance troupe Sugarfree, from Essex, will also take part.

Singer Callum Francis, 12, from Hertfordshire, and burlesque act Fabia Cerra, 35, from Oxford, are also hoping to get to the final.

William Hill said it has started to see a possible Boyle backlash and eased her price today from 4/7 to 4/6, with Shaheen Jafargholi cut from 6/1 to 5/1.

The bookies is also offering 10/1 that Boyle swears during the live final and 100/1 that she proposes to Morgan following her victory.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: GUEST,Ken Brock
Date: 28 May 09 - 06:21 PM

I mane a mistake on May 26 - there is no Rodgers and Hart song "I Think I'm Back in Love Again". I was thinking of "I Wish I were In Love Again". Another one I expect she could do well would be "You Took Advantage of Me".

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Emma B
Date: 28 May 09 - 06:28 PM

"Susan Boyle Has Plenty of Reasons to Be Pissed"

'Tuesday night she lost it in a hotel lounge when she heard her favorite judge, Piers Morgan, say on TV that her 12-year-old rival on Britain's Got Talent put in the best performance of the second round.
She flashed what was confusingly referred to as a "rude two-fingered gesture" (could someone please explain what's indecent about a V-sign?) and told more than 100 gathered fans of the show to "fuck off" before retreating to her room

Critics say it's the diva kicking in, and sympathizers say it's the pressure becoming intolerable......

A healthy temper doesn't quite fit into the Cinderella story that the show is promoting; Piers Morgan is portraying her as a victim of UK media jackals, saying "the increasingly unpleasant bitching and carping" is driving the sensitive songbird to tears, and issuing a treacly call for everyone to give her a break. "My heart absolutely bleeds for the poor woman," he intones, adding condescendingly, "Susan's just a sweet, middle-aged lady from a Scottish village who can't really comprehend the sheer scale of what's happened to her."

Her video's gotten 200 million hits on YouTube and she hasn't made a dime off it, and now she has to compete with 12-year-olds and wacky dancers to win this thing, or be perceived as a loser.....

Caroline Miller alternative report no doubt not emanating from the shows publicist

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Lox
Date: 28 May 09 - 06:50 PM

The idea of Piers Morgan talking about Media Jackals is utterly preposterous.

Ex editor of the Daily Mirror, the man is a walking tabloid who doesn't so much speak in sound bites as in cheap headlines.

The Jackals are him, Simon Cowell and their bit of posh weepy totty Amanda Holden.

And I don't believe one word that I read in the news on this subject any more than I believe the lies that are peddled about any other celebrities.

I don't know if she can pull out now ... she is already a household name and face - she may need the buffer zone now that fame and money offer between her and the public if she is to remain sane.

She can't go back to how it was - cos that place doesn't exist any more.

Subject: RE: What should Susan Boyle sing next?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 May 09 - 07:02 PM

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