BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 05:28 PM

Cross posted, Josz...

The Tea Party folks that got elected are so far out of their element that it will be interesting to see what happens when they have to deal with reality... I mean, from what I read and heard from them, they are clueless about the constitution they say "must be followed" and now Weeper of the House, Johnny Bonehead says they are going to have to provide constitutional justifications for any bills they propose... This is going to put a monumental hurt on their heads as most of them really don't have much experience and probably would struggle with US Government 101...

Yeah, lotta of them are in way over their head...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 05:46 PM

Nevertheless, the Dems will have little chance of drawing a bead on Republican candidates.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 05:50 PM

New Hampshire? A "Democrat leaning state"??? Bill Loeb, the Sununu's & etc???

Boy, are YOU confused................

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: josepp
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 05:51 PM

Bullshit, they'll blow 'em outta the water!

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: josepp
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 06:08 PM

////American rhetoric ... it has been for years ... win at all cost, obliterate the opposition////

And that's fine. But if violence erupts in the wake of it, whoever spoke it last has to own it. That's how it works--talk the talk if you want to but you better pray no one acts on it or even appears to have acted on it and you're going to own it. You're an adult, aren't you? You know this.

. .... ""Live Free or Die", new Hampshire's motto, hell it's even on their car licence plates ... whew, heavy stuff from a rather Democrat leaning state.////

I don't interpret "Live Free or Die" to mean kill people who vote for bills you don't like.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 06:14 PM

Anyway, that's "Live, Freeze and Die".

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: number 6
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 06:51 PM

"Boy, are YOU confused................ "

Not that confused .. N.H is not Colorado, and it's part of New England and resides right next door to Vermont.

josepp .. exactly.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 07:01 PM

No rhetoric or interpretation required for one person:

MSNBC Today:

"Meanwhile, the leader of Westboro Baptist Church, an anti-gay Kansas-based church best known for picketing the funerals of slain U.S. soldiers and gay-pride gatherings, said its members will picket the funerals of the 9-year-old girl and five others killed in Saturday's attack. In a video, Fred Phelps says God sent the shooter to avenge the nation's sins.

"Thank God for the violent shooter," Phelps proclaims.

[end quote]

John

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 07:17 PM

This didn't take long, did it?...

Fred Phelps

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: olddude
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 07:36 PM

Phelps is a monster, didn't someone do a lawsuit against him for his picketing of fallen soldiers. These people should do the same in this case ... only way to stop this guy is to make him bankrupt

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 07:38 PM

Back when I first became a social worker the most mentally ill were kept longer than 60 days in state mental hospitals and then came Ronnie Reagun ridin' in to change all that... Deregulate the corporations and let them police themselves and deinstitutionalize the mentally ill and let us social workers try to police our messed up clients out in the real world...

Well, both have been miserable failures...

When I left social worfk it took an act of Congress tyo get a "green warrant" on a mentally ill person... I mean, I had quite a few that were as messed up as this guy and I'd make the calls and the magistrate would ask me if he or she had a gun to anyone's head???

Things haven't changed unless it has become even harder for social workers to get folks off the street and into treatment... This is also a story about a failed idea about how to treat our mentally ill...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: josepp
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 07:45 PM

Phelps is a one-trick pony who only bores me these days.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: pdq
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 07:59 PM

The mental patients that were released while Reagan was presinet were the result of lawsuits by the ACLU, which claimed such people were being held against their will.

The court agreed hand they were released.

Why don't you ever have the facts right?

You don't give a shit about facts, that's why.

Subject: BS: 20 shot at political gathering in AZ
From: Genie
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 08:11 PM

Slag, no, Loughner's weapon was not a semi-automatic. But it was a Glock with a 30-round chamber, and that allowed him to hit 20 people quickly without carefully taking aim. (I kind of doubt he deliberately shot the child.)   Had he not had to stop to reload, he probably would have shot twice as many. It was when he paused to reload that others in the crowd subdued him.

And, Olddude, if there were a lot of other gun-toters in that crowd, there's a good chance a lot more people might have been caught in the crossfire.   
I've known way too many otherwise "normal" people who behaved like maniacs (e.g., behind the wheel of a car or in violence towards family members) when they became angry, for me to want a lot of non-certifiably-insane non-felons to be "packing" when they're at political rallies, etc.

And, OldTimer, yes, McVeigh's weapon consisted of easily-obtained materials, but it was not at all quick or easy for him to set up the means of employing it and then to employ it. That was a helluva lot harder than carrying a handgun into a parking lot and opening fire on a crowd.


Slag, I don't like to see an event like this used for partisan advantage, but neither is it fair or responsible to assume that "both sides are equally culpable" in the use of "the language of annihilation" or to postulate that just for the sake of being non-biased.
I say we need to call out the individuals — political spokespeople, politicians, pundits, bloggers, talk show hosts, etc. — who are engaging in demonizing of those who disagree with them and whose language seems to call for violence. We need to hold them accountable for the aftermath.    It's not necessarily going to turn out that such people are evenly distributed across political parties or the political spectrum.

Q, it turns out Judge Rolls DID have extra security protection, ever since he'd received so many death threats following his decision to allow a lawsuit on behalf of some undocumented immigrants who claimed their rights were violated.   That didn't keep him from becoming a victim, even if he was not Loughner's intended target.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 08:15 PM

Loughner's weapon was not a semi-automatic

Ahem. The Glock is a semi-automatic handgun.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Ed T
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 08:21 PM

"It is not MY fault that I never learned to accept responsibility!"
Short Funny Quote by, Unknown.


"A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory."
Short Funny Quote by, Unknown.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences."
— P.J. O'Rourke

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: pdq
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 08:31 PM

"...But it was a Glock with a 30-round chamber..." ~ Genie

Must get crowded in there.

Hint: Genie, don't ever discuss guns. You sound like a complete idiot doing so.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 08:44 PM

Where exactly do you come up with this, pdq??? That is mytholgy... I was there... The reason that Reagan pushed to deinstitutionalize was part of a larger plan to reduce spending... It was about $$$$$.... Not about ACLU... Man, you need to visit Earth now and then...

BTW, the push for deinstitutionalization was at a time when Federal Title XX funds were also being cut... Those federal moneies were for the backup services within the community such as transportation, out patient mental health services, adult day care services and all the things that if we were going to cut mental health spending that would be needed on the "outside " so this became to social workers everywhere the Reagan "double whammy"...

And my friends who are still in social work back in Richmond tell me that its gotten even worse... Les and less money spent on mental health and they are having to be both social workers and mental health workers... This is a recipe for disaster...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: pdq
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 09:06 PM

Here is a reasonable statement on the mental health subject...


"My wife worked for the chief of the psychiatric department at the Brentwood VA in California during the early 80s. From the mid-70s to mid-80s there was a strong 'patients rights' movement generated by the mental health advocate community. Although there were many facets to this movement, one of the primary elements was a re-examination of the criteria for institutionalizing patients.

The point of contention revolved around interpretations of what it meant for a patient to be able to 'take care of himself.' Prior to this the interpretation was rather strict; if a patient could not earn an income and provide shelter and food for himself (and if there were no family members able to care for him), then he would normally be institutionalized.

Begining in the late 70s, the advocacy groups began to demand a lower standard. As long as a patient could merely wash and dress himself, and could perform the mechanical tasks of shovelling food into his mouth, then every effort was made to force the institutions to release them. My wife's boss spent many months both in court and testifying before the state assembly trying to stop this lowering of standards. Unsuccessfully.

Predictably, most of the newly discharged patients were unable to take care of themselves in any meaningful sense of the word, and became the homeless people on the street. It's no coincidence that the decline in California's mental health insitution population closely matched the sharp increase of homeless (in California, at least) during the same period. In fact, for about two years, my wife literally was on a first name basis with every homeless person we ran across in the Westwood/Santa Monica area. They were all former patients who had been 'sprung' from the VA by well meaning advocate groups who then simply walked away and left these guys hanging.

Reagan was not involved in this movement, nor was he a symptom or symbolic of it. Quite the contrary. The people who 'liberated' the inmates tended to be on the opposite end of the political spectum. In fact, it was the ACLU who provided legal representation to force the VA to release these patients."

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 09:10 PM

Exactly, Bobert...and I was working in a VA psychiatric hospital when we got the same directions - vets were "outplaced" into halfway houses or simply discharged who had been institutionalized for decades.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: pdq
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 09:28 PM

The first important decisions in the patients rights crusade were made in the mid 1960s while Reagan was governor of California. They were the result of lawsuits by the ACLU.

We keep hearing about mental patients being cleared out of institutions while he was president. That was 20 years after the fact. He said many times that he was not happy being forced to release these people but that was what the court said and he had no choice.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 09:30 PM

Please provide legal citations.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: number 6
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 09:37 PM

Laying blame on the outsourcing of the mentally ill to halfway houses can be blamed both on the ALCU and Reagan ... the ALCU has always advocated for the rights of the mentally ill insisting they should not be locked up ... Reagan took note of this and realized yes, this is a good way to save some $money$ signing the bill and opening the gates of the asylums letting the inmates free to roam the streets .... ....Reagan probably also saw the movie "One who Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest" which was a big hit at the box office at that time   which possibly could have reinforced his decision .... so kids, who is to blame?

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 09:40 PM

Come on, pdq... This is absolute mythology... What??? The fuckin' ACLU, which had been buggin' lots of state courts over the issue for years, now makin' an elected president fall to his knees without one single federal judge ruling that a state hospital had to open up the doors???

I mean, no offense pdq, but I'd like some of whatever you been smokin'...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 09:48 PM

Ya got that one right, bILL..

I remember when the Title XX money was cut down to nuthin' by Reagan like it was yesterday!!! I still have a cartoon I did depicting the average social worker as a bus driver/maid/nurse/pharmacist/cop/secretary... I still have it... It's not so funny but it sho nuff set social work back 30 years...

BTW, I quit a year later and looked for something else to do with my life...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: number 6
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 09:49 PM

come on Bobert, put the bong down for a moment and think this out .... he took his clue from a leftist organization as a good excuse to sign the bill and save some $cash$ ... in doing so he feels he has done a lefty act of good deed at the same tiem. And everyone at the time has gone out and seen the flick "Cuckoo's Nest" and are (feel they are) fully aware of the condition of confinment of the mentally ill.

Geez man ... don't you see it .... everyone feeds off of each other ... the left and the right. It's all part of the big machine.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: pdq
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 09:51 PM

You are on the right track, biLL.

The ACLU wanted people who could dress and feed themselves to be freed from the mental institutions.

In the late 1960 the halfway house industry took over much of the responsibility from the mental institutions.

The ACLU had their victory but they did not really realize the total consequences of their actions.

Reagan never had a Republican majority in the state legislature while he was governor nor in the federal ligislature while he was president. He is hated by the Left because he is the only man who took the country right. The only one of 44 presidents.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: number 6
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 09:53 PM

Bobert ... "BTW, I quit a year later and looked for something else to do with my life" ... same thing happened with my cousin .... he did just as you did.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 10:10 PM

Hey, bILL... Ya' gotta remember that I was not only a social worker at the time working in "Adult Service" (meaning mental health clients) but also a "liberal"... So maybe my take is a little different from other folks, I donno??? But in spite of movies, I don't recall any "liberal"
push for deinstitutionlism... Might of fact, I don't think that any of my many, many "liberal" friends and band mates ever really brought the subject up until after it happened...

Once it happened it was pure Hell for us social workers... I mean, it killed off quite a few of us... Talk about burn out??? Sheet fire... Sadly, the social workers who I used to work with and are just lookin' to retirement pulled back shortly after I quit... Pulling back is the "operative" word here... People do what they can but when faced with an impossible task they pull back... Human nature...

BTW, I don't buy that everyone feeds off their counterpart... Yes, given the right circumstances, that is correct... They call that war... But war is obsolete... The only folks trying to keep them going are the folks on the right... The reactionaries... The Palins... The Becks... They want endless war because in times of war it is a lot easier to corral the peons... And, after all, corralin' the peons is what ****control**** is all about... See A. Huxley's "Brave New World" for details...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: number 6
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 10:15 PM

A point of interest regarding this subject of outsourcing of the mentally ill ... in the 1970s in Canada the movement towards deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill, that is moving them out of asylums and other facilities, and releasing them into the community was initiated by our federal government while the Liberals where in power under the leadership of Pierre Trudeau ... this left wing government would be considered communist by your U.S. standards. The reason's used where for humane treatment of the mentally ill, but regardless of politcal affiliation the real reason was to save $money$.

right vs left ... in many ways they are not that different.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: number 6
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 10:23 PM

Bobert ... burn out ... my cousin was a phsycologist at that time ... after all that crap he went into home renovations and stuck that out until he retired.

Brave New World ... familiar with that ... both left and right IMHO will use any any control possible to keep the populace under control ... I personally lean far left to the politcal spectrum due to the social well being of society ... but I also do not trust (and I keep my guard up) any government, regardless of their politcal affiliations.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 10:56 PM

I suspect that the ACLU would be very surprised to learn that they were being given credit for this.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 11:20 PM

According to that flaming leftist rag, the Wall St. Journal, today, the shooter raged against government, and believes that government controls people too much.

Now what group is currently stoking hate and fear of government in their followers, with extremely militant, sometimes military, rhetoric?

Clue:   not the Obama admininistration.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Genie
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 02:39 AM

PDQ, that's the info I heard reported on the news -- the 30-round capacity being repeated more than once.   If I sound like an idiot to you, too bad.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Genie
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 02:47 AM

ETA:
Whatever you call Loughner's weapon or how you phrase its capacity, Loughner's weapon allowed him to shoot off 30 - no, 31 - bullets without reloading, and when he paused to reload he was immediately taken down by unarmed people in the crowd.   The point is that had his weapon not had the capacity to shoot so many bullets without reloading, fewer people would have been shot.

Yes, the kind of weapon does make a difference.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 07:55 AM

There are a few things we all should be able to agree on.   One should be that no private citizen "needs" a semi-automatic pistol. Given that Arizona, as I understand, allows concealed weapons without a permit--and that won't change any time soon--, it sounds like we should be moving to national laws to restrict the type of weapon available to people outside the police.

If anybody thinks private citizens should in fact be able to buy semi-automatic pistols, let's have the exact reasons.



Also, believe it or not, things have changed in the US since the 2nd Amendment was passed. A "well-regulated militia" was needed in the 18th century since there was a deep fear of a standing army, and it was not clear that Britain would not try to take the colonies back.   We seem to have gotten over both those fears.

And even the Supreme Court makes mistakes--and can change.    How many Mudcatters think the Dred Scott decision was right?

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: artbrooks
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 07:57 AM

Genie, what apparently got pdq's back up was the point that you said a "30-round chamber" when it should have been 30-round magazine. The chamber is the part of the weapon in which the cartridge actually ignites, propelling the bullet down the barrel, while the magazine (or clip) is the removable item that holds rounds ready to go into the chamber. Everyone know what you meant, and it is of no importance to anyone who wasn't looking for an issue on which to ridicule somebody.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 08:28 AM

"I suspect that the ACLU would be very surprised to learn that they were being given credit for this."

I'd be very surprised if they didn't. In some ways this is an example of democracy at work ... if you are a leftest (or whatever) organization with a mandate that you want signed into law and the current government hears your cause and does the deed (maybe not for the exact reason of your intent) that is democracy at work, regardless.

It was a win win democratic situation .... even if you strongly dislike and disagree the 'win' side of the right wing government. They heard your mandate and it was signed into law.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: olddude
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 08:50 AM

Ron
the reasons, well all guns kill, semi-auto or wheel gun a bullet is a bullet. A wheel gun is safer, you are less likely for an accidental discharge but having no semi-auto's would change nothing. Now before everyone goes off. Most duck hunters and bird hunters today use a seni auto shotgun for very good reasons. They are much faster and more accurate.   A semi auto handgun is more accurate. The wheel gun requires the round to spin and no matter how good the gun the cylinders all have some degree of misalignment and flash- as opposed to eject and load as in a semi. One can hold the target far better with a semi auto. Recoil as bob stated depends on the caliber with any gun but a semi auto is back on target far faster. Now should people be required more training on them ... YUP . In addition the trigger pull of a semi which determines accuracy is much lower, 2-3 lbs vs 10 again providing far more accuracy.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: olddude
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 09:03 AM

We circle back to the same point. Not everyone should be allowed to carry a handgun- absolutely agree. Those who can have to be highly trained and a full background check (including mental health) agree. Change the gun show law (agree)

And a person intent on killing will find a way (IE throw a homemade explosive) use whatever means they come up with. That I am sure we will agree. Banning anything won't stop this. Doesn't work with drugs at all. Politics although odorous won't cause this .. defective people who want to kill will continue to kill ... Now what would you do to protect yourself in the unlikely event you get into a situation like this, or you are on the street and attacked. That is my point, forget carry, that is the most personal of all decisions and I respect the people who don't. So think about how you would protect yourself and loved ones if you were confronted by such an act or a single robbery with knife .. etc..

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: olddude
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 09:17 AM

One other point people are missing. It all depends on caliber of the round. Had he used a .44 mag wheel gun (max load) only 6 shots could indeed hit 18 people. Why, that round goes through and hits the next and the next and the next. No restriction on the weapon could stop this guy intent on doing such a terrible thing

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 09:28 AM

Well, I certainly hope, but doubt very much, that this incident will lead to a rational discussion/debate on the 2nd amendment... The right skips over the first half of it like it was a radiation pit in order to justify their right to own whatever guns they want to own, regardless of their skills/training in using them safely...

There are plenty of personal protection guns that will do just fine for that home intruder that ain't 31 shot 9mm semi-automatics or AK-47s, which BTW yer gun dealer will be more than happy to sell you a $5 book on how to make fully automatic...

I mean, let's get real here... No one hunts with or sports shoots fully automatic AKs... This is a military weapon used in war... People don't need to be owning these to protect themselves...

But no.... We'll get the same NRA ***NOISE*** blasted at US just like every time these things happen... It will happen right here in the Mud Pit... It is already happening on blogs all over the internet...

Bottom line from the right: We're right, yer wrong so shut the heck up!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 09:33 AM

I'm talking about semi-automatic pistols. It's hard to believe hunters cannot get along without these.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: artbrooks
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 09:42 AM

But to get back on the basic topic, at least in some respects, it now appears that the Westboro "Baptist" Church intends on showing up at Christina Taylor Green's funeral. It is hard to get me angry, but those people (for lack of an uncensorable alternative) manage it every time. Their justification? She was Catholic.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 10:01 AM

Ron,
If you happen to have 30 hunting buddies who happen to all be feelin poorly in bed cuz of some tainted stew they had at the Rotary new years dinner, and you're out huntin and come across a group of 30 deer down by the crik bend, you're gonna want to have that Gock 9 with an extended 33 shot clip. Its down right neighborly to give a fresh venison to a friend, even if they are feelin really nauseous when they have to go dress the deer in their drive way.

It might take you three trips in yer Ford 350 to deliver all them deer but without that extended clip you would only have got one or two

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: olddude
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 10:14 AM

Completely agree with you Bobart, I hate the things and see no reason for them. I see no reason for a 30 round magazine in a glock either.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: EBarnacle
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 10:14 AM

I find it significant that, although there were apparently many people in the crowd who were armed, not one of them fired at the assailant. He was taken down by "peaceful means."

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: olddude
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 10:20 AM

And that was the very best approach. It all depends on the distance from the shooter.

By the way, had the guy came in with a shotgun instead, the carnage would have been 5 times that. Again, how is a ban going to do anything to stop the mind of a homicidal killer? The problem need to be addressed in some other way, somehow finding these folks and somehow getting them help before hand .. who knows, I sure don't. I hate the fact that his college teacher on TV said she told her office mate, "that guy scares me, he is the kind that walks in with a gun"

Now after hearing that, I cringed .. but then again what does one do.

only questions

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 10:22 AM

At our Safeway magazine section there are 4 different magazines that are devoted to the semi automatic handgun. Then there are the rifle and assault gun magazines.

I have been known over the years to take these gun magazines and distribute them all over the magazine shelves covering up all the other magazines to make a point of the number of garish gun magazines they carry. The last time I did this all the magazines visible were gun magazines with the exception of one pregnancy magazine. For me it was a carthartic example of conceptual art.
Crazy huh? Not as crazy as those who only feel secure carrying a gun everywhere they go.

There are 9 guns for every 10 Americans. There are 30,000 US citizens shot every year. 3,000 people are shot to death intentionally yearly. Of those, 1000 are suicides and the rest are "accidents". 80 US citizens are shot daily.

Yesterday Mexic only had 50 people shot todeath and of those 15 were beheaded in a macho narco display complete with a written poster.
The US beats them by a mile when it comes to gun deaths.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 10:23 AM

No restriction on the weapon could stop this guy intent on doing such a terrible thing

The restriction that could have stopped him is if Arizona hasd reasonable firearms laws that would have prevented this mentak case from getting a firearm in the first place. A simple, reasonable background check - as done in NY & many other states, for example.

Ron Davies is absolutely correct on this one - (yeah, I know, shock, horror)- its long past time for a NATIONAL law, setting minimum standards & procedures, that State laws could exceed if they wished, that would keep basic controls uniform from state to state (God Forbid! Creeping Communism!!!) - this uniformity ALONE would eliminate many of the loopholes & absurdities of the current system (or non-system).

However..........................ain't gonna happen.