BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Peace
Date: 08 Aug 09 - 04:37 PM

"BNP leader Nick Griffin calls white people 'stupid'
The people who have the brains and ability got out [of London] years ago, one way or another. The people who are left are either the 15 per cent of the population who are happy to put up with it, they're so decadent they actually like it, or they are too stupid to do anything about it. They will vote BNP, but you can't build a movement on those people.

Nick Griffin, The Cook Report"

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Peace
Date: 08 Aug 09 - 04:38 PM

"On democracy: "[BNP voters backed] what they perceived to be a strong, disciplined organisation with the ability to back up its slogan 'Defend Rights for Whites' with well-directed boots and fists. When the crunch comes, power is the product of force and will, not of rational debate"

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Peace
Date: 08 Aug 09 - 05:08 PM

It has taken five days, but I do think I have located the full real name and address of the poster "Fairplay". He's in Nottinghamshire. Next time be more careful, asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Peace
Date: 08 Aug 09 - 05:09 PM

The legal tracking will be lots easier now.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Peace
Date: 08 Aug 09 - 05:12 PM

NOW, I will quit this thread. Until someone/anyone gives me reason to return to it.

Open remark to the BNP: FIX THE SHIT you caused Mudcat members on Facebook. If you do not, I will continue to speak the truth about your leader, the various child molesters and other weirdos you have in your party. You have three days to get that done. Period. Until then, fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Peace
Date: 08 Aug 09 - 05:18 PM

Last thing for a bit. I will publish An/Fairplays name and address on this site if the Facebook shit is not fixed. I just realized this is a weekend. You hereby have until Thursday of the coming week. Don't push anymore buttons you fucking assholes.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: GUEST,Chris
Date: 08 Aug 09 - 07:40 PM

Just got my FAF t shirt and badge today.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 08:44 AM

I don't knoiw why this thread is still going, the question asked in the title is easily answered.
They get votes because they tell people things they want to hear.
That's how any politician gets elected isn't it?
All the dumb fuck hair splitting, etc that has gone on on this thread is just so much fucking hot air!
You're giving publicity to the Square heads, leave it alone.
If you want to do something, vote against them, stand against them, whatever it takes.
Point scoring on a parochial, self selecting US based web site, about a UK based phenomenon, is a waste of time.
No wonder people are fed up with Mudcat

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 04:46 PM

The reason for the on going discusison about the BNP is their attempts to associate folk music, cusotms and heritage with teir cause.   The good people in Mudcat are making it clear that they have no connection whatsoever with the BNP and are citing evidence rlating to BNP's extreme right and criminal deeds, words and activities to show why.

I love our traditions, I respect other peoples traditions, and I will not tolerate the traditions that I love to be used as avehcile for race hatred and neo-naziism. For that reason I will do everything in my power, not to chage the hearts and minds of the bigots who are BNP acitivist, but the herat and minds of those who may be misled by the lies that they peddle.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 05:37 PM

I agree, John - but there are widely varying opinions on that issue.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 06:15 AM

" I will do everything in my power" So SPB, apart from sending me PM,s, what other 'constructive' activities are you up in your quest to bring about the downfall of the BNP.
On this rare occasion I too agre with Mr McKenzie.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: GUEST,Chris Shaw
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 06:45 AM

Allow everyone their view. I voted BNP and will do again. Our local guy is great. I do not agree with government policy in throwing the doors open in the UK to freeloaders. I expect the Tories will do something about it when they get in next June. I doubt if I went to Poland I would find a group crying for my rights !

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Emma B
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 07:09 AM

I presume this is not the same GUEST,Chris Shaw who left an email address and telephone number in connection with tickets for a ceilidh at C Sharp house on a previous thread - it seems the stealing of identities is endemic on the internet

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 07:10 AM

CS, Are you saying that the NHS doctors, nurses, care workers, social workers, bus drivers, are freeloaders? What is your evidence for this?

PR, I can't stop people from voting they way they want to. I can't stop racists and bigots from organising, but what I can do and have done on many occasions, is to provide instances of where the BNP have lied to get support, remind people of the criminal activites of many activist high up in the BNP, reminding people of lessons from history of the impact of fascist state on their societies and asking thinking intellegent people if on the evidence provided they really want the BNP to get in a position of power. I do not use abusive langauge like some people who have sent me PMs. On a practical level I work with charities and social enterprises which in turn work with the most disadvantaged people in society.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 07:39 AM

I presume this is not the same GUEST,Chris Shaw who left an email address and telephone number in connection with tickets for a ceilidh at C Sharp house on a previous thread - it seems the stealing of identities is endemic on the internet

Why? Surely he/she is entitled to dance?

More seriously: this comment smacks of another example of using a form of cyberbullying (in this case by deliberately drawing attention to contact information posted for another purpose) as a weapon against those whose views one does not agree with. Pity, really.

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Emma B
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 07:48 AM

sigh..........

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 08:29 AM

Martin, SATBYS. What was being pointed out was that there was a presumably real Chris Shaw who had in the past been useful in relation to a ceilidh at C#Ho - so this pro-BNP guest had probably stolen the identity of the real Chris Shaw.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Emma B
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 08:45 AM

Thank you Richard

It only took a click to find out that information about the Chris Shaw whose last post was over 18months ago - as I'm not terribly technically minded I can only assume others would find it equally simple and be tempted to jump to conclusions as it seems some people who post here are!

I think our resident troll obviously knows his way around mudcat extremely well and has no compunctions about stealing an identity that could cause maximum discomfort to an individual who has no history whatsoever of any posts other than helpful musical ones.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 08:54 AM

Richard

Precisely. It is the PRESUMPTION that someone who had connections with the tradition couldn't simultaneously hold pro-BNP views that fascinates me. I have no idea whether the two posters are one and the same - but I see absolutely no reason why they shouldn't be.

If Emma B. has reason to believe the identity has been stolen, then the person who needs to know is the first user - whose details she has. If the posts come from the same person, then Emma's drawing of attention to it amounts to bullying. If it is not possible to tell the difference, no comment is necessary.

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 08:56 AM

Emma B

Cross-posted!

Regards.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 09:04 AM

Make up your mind Martin.

Your first criticism was to the effect that Emma was "outing" the contact details of the BNP troll (you called it "cyberbullying") - which involves her believing that they are one and the same. Your next line is that she (and I) are, but should not be, believing that the previous poster and the BNP troll are NOT one and the same.

Which do you say is the case?

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 09:22 AM

Richard

Your next line is that she (and I) are, but should not be, believing that the previous poster and the BNP troll are NOT one and the same.


Sorry - I don't understand that sentence. At no stage did I mention or imply a troll. Your use of the term again simply PRESUMES that someone who holds BNP views can't dance. The logic escapes me.

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 10:21 AM

The current BNP poster on this thread - using the guest name "Shaw" is the troll.

The question is whether he is or is not the same as the previous poster "Shaw". Your first concern was that he was the same. Now you complain that we say isn't the same.

You can't have it both ways.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Emma B
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 10:41 AM

Martin, I'm not a 'complicated' person

When my bank rang me up because I'd suddenly, against all previous practice, made an expensive purchase on the internet using my credit card, I was inconvienienced momentarily but grateful that someone had recognized that I had no previous history of this kind of behaviour but knew that such fraud happened only too often

I have no idea whether the Chris Shaw that posted briefly 18 months ago is the same person as the alleged BNP supporter but, simple observation informs me that there is a rash of mudcat identity theft on Facebook (I have been targetted myself) and a spate of guest posting here too (which Joe Offer has identified coming from the same ISP) and that, despite the long running and combatative nature of these threads, this is the first post from that particular 'guest' on the subject - as I pointed out all the previous posts having been very helpful musical contributions!

Guest postings are officially not allowed below the line but nevertheless the moderators cannot be everywhere and different time zones ensure that any Brit knows they have a window of opportunity to make disparing remarks about other nationalities or races which will remain here until attention is brought to them!

I don't think you will find any examples of cyber bullying in any of my posts however for one period in which 'I' chose to post under a consistent guest name only, I had that name deliberately and cynically abused!

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 12:42 PM

Richard

The current BNP poster on this thread - using the guest name "Shaw" is the troll.

The question is whether he is or is not the same as the previous poster "Shaw".

So - he's a troll whether he dances or not? Is that your point? MY only point is that, on the evidence so far, he/she may be a dancer who votes BNP. So what?


Emma B
Let's suppose there's only one Chris. What effect would you expect drawing attention to the location of their email address might have? If, on the other hand, there are TWO - what was the point of doing so - your argument based on the posting pattern didn't depend on it. To put it another way, using your own analogy - how would you have felt if instead of contacting you, the bank had posted a public letter in the local newspaper, complete with your address? With all due respect, I think your original post was disingenuous, at best.

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Emma B
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 12:58 PM

Martin as I pointed out, anyone who wished to do a 'check' on any poster could do it as simply as me and may not be as wised up about the state of ID fraud that seems to be the flavour of the month.

If I had been as mean spirited as you insist on attributing to me, for whatever motives of your own, I could have simply linked to the previous post without any further comment.
Frankly I find it extremely unlikely that anyone who wished to post those kind of views (which mimic exactly posts by a series of other 'guests') would also have personal contact details readily availble on the forum; BNP members became very upset when a membership list was published on the net recently.

However I don't feel I have any need to defend my actions to you any more - I have better things to do with my time.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 04:10 PM

Martin, answer the question. Is your problem that we might think him the same person, or a different person? Make up your mind.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Lox
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 04:30 PM

Richards point:


Martin

"More seriously: this comment smacks of another example of using a form of cyberbullying (in this case by deliberately drawing attention to contact information posted for another purpose) as a weapon against those whose views one does not agree with. Pity, really."


This suggests that EmmaB thinks that the chris shaw in this thread is the same as the chris shaw in a previous thread and that she is drawing attentiion to his contact details in order to make it possible for people to bully him.

"Precisely. It is the PRESUMPTION that someone who had connections with the tradition couldn't simultaneously hold pro-BNP views that fascinates me. I have no idea whether the two posters are one and the same - but I see absolutely no reason why they shouldn't be."


This suggests that she has presumed that they are not the same person and that that is a bad thing.

Which point do you stand by?

My point

In fact both the above points are nonsense, she has alerted us to the possibility that another mudcat identity may have been cloned.

She may be right or wrong, but under current circumstances her observation may prove useful to moderators, to Chris Shaw and also to the rest of us as reminders to remain vigilant.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 04:58 PM

Martin, answer the question. Is your problem that we might think him the same person, or a different person? Make up your mind.

No, Richard - my problem is the underlying assumption that anyone who votes BNP can't dance.

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 05:51 PM

Martin...Your problem is that you dont speak "liberalese"...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 09:43 PM

Martin, that was not the underlying assumption, and your attempt to cling to it is such a transparent figleaf that it does nothing to spare your deserved blushes.

I am however happy to report that for the moment, while Fakebook has not yet zapped ALL of the clones, it has got rid of quite a lot. I also got a fake of me zapped off bebo. Regrettably there is a fake "Richard "Hoff" Bridge" at present on flickr. I do not use flickr.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 09:46 PM

PS. There is however a poster (one I have not noticed before) on FaF who appears to be defending the BNP, and his picture seems to show the regalia of a particular morris side.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 12:11 AM

The shit had best be gone by Thursday.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 12:25 AM

A friend of mine who has a Facebook account--I do NOT--has sent the following message from me/on my behalf to people who have 'befriended' the fake me:

"Sure, tell 'em. I hate the fuckin' Nazis and as a result of not backing off nailing the bastards the BNP then proceeded to steal the ids of about ten people--mostly musicians--and do their best to make the musicians look as if we support the BNP. Nothing could be further from the truth. All of us have spoken against the BNP, in no uncertain terms, and we shall continue to do so. It'll be one cold day in hell before those bastards make me back up."

FYI

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 02:21 AM

flickr got back to me overnight with intelligent questions.

What an amazing contrast with Fakebook!

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 02:23 AM

WOW. There are some sites on the 'net that DO have their stuff wired tight. You have done excellent work, Richard. I am beholden to you.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 03:11 AM

Richard

Please try to resist the temptation to patronise me. Adding that to the toe-curlingly self-righteous tone of much of this thread really would make me question our sanity.

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: jeddy
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 07:29 PM

martin,
of course someone can cance and be a BNP supporter. BUT there has been too many id thefts to assume that anyones posts are really from who they say they are especially when they are guests.

EMMA B is not and never will be a bully.

as the BNP and the KKK have such an intimate relationship, i am grateful to have the support of our U.S friends. to be honest until i came on here, i always thought that the KKK had been disbanded and outlawed sometime in the 70s.

i still think that people should be allowed to voice their opinions freely, even when we wholley dissagree with what they say. personally i have found some of the pro BNP stuff really sickening but it shows the level of (un)intelligence not to mention loyalty of those who support their cause.

for example, the rape and abuse stuff sickens me no end, especially as i have been on the recieving end.
HOWEVER i think he should keep saying crap like that. if it sickens me and you lot then imagine how many others. he will lose more votes every time he comes up with stuff like that, so FILL YA BOOTS MATE.

take care all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 07:57 PM

Martin - try to make it less tempting.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Peace
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 06:39 PM

Is today Wednesday?

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: jeddy
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 06:44 PM

not sure bruce, i think so but then my days have been going backwards and forwards so much i think it might be september!!

x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 07:25 PM

Was that Ricky Nelson?

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Peace
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 08:10 PM

I notice stepped-up attacks against me on MySpace by the BNP. I will out the member tomorrow.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Peace
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 08:19 PM

Pardon: On Youtube. Including many from the fake Richard. The real Richard is a man. The person imitating him spells poorly, has little education, formal or otherwise, and likely 'spends time' with older teenaged boys on weekends.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Peace
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 09:02 PM

A

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Peace
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 09:55 PM

Well, one letter at a time and I'll never get the guy's name out there. Start with Andrew.

BTW, Andrew, if that was you a few days back who sent the death threat, FUCK YOU! Pussies, the fuckin' lot of you.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Peace
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 10:00 PM

Where is Langley Mill in England? Anyone know?

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 10:18 PM

://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=Langley+Mill&um=1&ie=UTF-8&split=0&gl=uk&ei=FHeDSoTPBZahjAf057WICg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=t


Actually just in Derbyshire

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Peace
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 10:23 PM

Thank you, Richard.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Peace
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 10:27 PM

500