BS: a trip to Pennsylvania

Subject: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 01:54 PM

My dear husband and I are contemplating a trip to Pennsylvania. We've never been there.

This may surprise some people, but PA has been called 'the ultimate Appalachian state." For us as geologists, the mere names resonate. Tuscarora, Kittatinny, Nittany. Delaware Water Gap. Fondly we recall ourselves as students, mapping cross-sections over what seemed an idyllic rural landscape.

I want to know this. If we visit the Ridge and Valley (geological term for the 'Appalachians') of eastern PA, will we find it all covered with McMansions? Have the outcrops been replaced by malls? What's it like now?

We think we'll fly to Philly and rent a car.

We also plan to birdwatch Cape May, NJ. If anybody knows anything other good birdwatching sites, would you please share?

PS This has no connection with the proposed Mudgather being talked about in a different thread.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: gnu
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 02:08 PM

Google Earth and scope it out. I often take trips all over the world.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: Bettynh
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 03:03 PM

Depending when you're going, Hawk Mountain might be a worthy destination. For a start, I always check out the state parks wherever I'm going. They tend to be cheap and relatively untouched (if, sometimes, run down).

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: MarkS
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 04:44 PM

We also plan to birdwatch Cape May, NJ

A bit to the west puts you into the "swamp" area also know as a tidal estuary of the Delaware Bay. The entire Southern Coast of New Jersey is thick with interesting nature areas. Try swinging around Bivalve (yes, that is the name of the town!) There should be plenty of bait shops, etc, which can give you a better steer than I can.

If you want to see Bald Eagles, I can steer you to a site in Pilesgrove Township where you might get lucky.

Not such a great time of year nowadays though. Late Spring might be better. But - that time of year in that area you will run into lots of New Jerseys' state insect - the mosquito!
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 05:16 PM

I've heard of Hawk Mountain. We plan to go in May, but to avoid the Cape May Birding Festival and the World Series of Birding.

That's interesting about the entire southern shore of New Jersey.

Gnu, we'll take a look at Google Earth.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: olddude
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 10:28 PM

Central PA, I will take you places that will blow your socks off. We also have a ton of Elk if you like Elk watching.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: olddude
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 10:31 PM

Also check out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herkimer_diamond

my home in Western NY is not far, that is a fun dig if you really like Geology stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: Janie
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 11:14 PM

Sounds like a great trip you have planned. There is no question that Pennsylvania is geologically diverse and encompasses several geological aspects of the central Appalachian's, but the "ultimate Appalachian experience?"

I don't think so.

The Appalachian range is much too long and geologically diverse for any small section or State to lay claim to "ultimate."

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: EBarnacle
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 11:40 PM

Actually, the mosquito is our state bird.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 08:43 AM

Seein' as you are into geology there's an area in New Jersey between Philly and the "Jersey Shore" that you ride thru that is like a mini-dessert... Maybe someone knows about it and can tell you where it is... Very strange... Might even have birds living there that like that kind of environment???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 10:01 AM

We have a beautiful Herkimer 'diamond' in our rock collection.

Keep the tips coming.

I used to think that Pennsylvania was a really big state. When you see maps of the 13 colonies, it looks like the pioneers got to Pennsylvania and said, "We've got to start making states big, or we'll never get to California." However, I know now that PA is only about 2/3 as big as Missouri.

I used to think of Missouri as middle-sized until the evening that we had to cross it on the diagonal with huge semi's roaring by. I thought it would never be over.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: EBarnacle
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 10:02 AM

It's called the Pine Barrens. The are is well docomented. I recommend "Forgotten Towns of South Jersey." Regrettably, most of the locations mentioned in the book have been developed over.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: Bettynh
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 10:10 AM

More about the pine barrens. They sit on an aquifer that normally touches the surface in bogs and lakes, but Hurricane Irene raised the level to several feet above the surface for a few weeks. There'll still be evident damage. May is flowering time for pitcher plants and orchids. The warblers will go through the woods here rather than hug the shore. Not to mention the ducks! LOL, I'm talking myself into taking a trip.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: Greg B
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 10:24 AM

You might look up "The Great Swamp" in central New Jersey (practically in EBarnacle's back yard) for birding. If you wait until Spring (May is great) you can rent a kayak or canoe at a place near us called Bucks River Country and paddle the Delaware from the Frenchtown (NJ) Uhlersberg (PA) bridge to Pt. Pleasant. You'll get some very nice views of the palisades as well as the vultures that live on them. I always found flying an open-cockpit plane on east-west routes in the state to be interesting, as from about 2000 feet above the ground the state resembles nothing more than a sheet of corrugated cardboard with ridge after ridge and valleys in between. The valleys are generally full of farms, with a little airport at the bottom of each. Often, the decision whether to go on was made based on whether the next ridge was visible in the haze that seems to form on most days. Once I made the wrong decision and nearly JFK Jr'd myself. The area around Blue Mountain, north and west of Allentown can provide some great vistas. And of course, here in Bucks County, we have Ringing Rocks and Stover State Parks, both famous for their geologic features. Gettysburg can be informative as to how terrain affected that major Civil War battle. The battlefield itself is best seen on horseback.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: olddude
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 11:20 AM

I would take my kids to dig Herkimer diamonds all the time. Found a zillion of them. One time I dug up a leg bone from a baby mammoth. Gave it to a local museum after they confirmed what i thought it was. Central PA is loaded with fossils also. Lots of ferns and other critters in the rocks. Mainly ferns however.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: lefthanded guitar
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 11:31 AM

leenia, I think there are some great places to visit in Pennsylvania, I haven't been to hawk mountain, but my nature loving friends have. Also recommended, Amish Country and Longwood Gardens.

But to be honest jmho, if you want to see the most glorious stretch of the Appalachians, scoot down I81 in Viriginia and/or North Carolina. The Blue Ridge and Great Smoky Mountains are just about the most heavenly mountain ranges on earth- the oldest range of mountains, with incredibly bio diversity, and virgin forests going back hundreds of years. The mountains, worn by aeons of time, have the appearance of blue waves, and when the sun sets, they look like transparent watercolors of the rainbow. The scent of the flowers is like perfume. Go in spring, when the azalea and rhododendron bloom.
Just lovely.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 05:07 PM

I agree with you, lefty, but we've already been there more than once.

One feature of the proposed trip that I haven't mentioned yet is the railroad museum at Scranton.   It is definitely part of the plan.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 09:23 PM

I definitely recommend a trip to the Pine Barrens, if you can make it. Crazy beautiful place, mile after mile of desolate but amazing unspoiled areas, opening to some of (in my opinion) the most beautiful beaches on the East Coast.

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 09:55 PM

Wow!!!

I thought it was like a dessert??? Looks like one when you ride thru it??? Guess not...

Glad to learn more about it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: EBarnacle
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 08:43 AM

Actually, the Great Swamp is only a couple of miles from our condo. The visitor's center is very good and they have guided walks.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 09:57 AM

Thanks for the info. Clearly there is enough for more than one trip.

Olddude, please tell me more about hunting fern fossils.

I have a few from that I collected at about age 12. They come from southern Illinois, where we would find them at the base of spoil piles from coal mining. Is the situation in PA the same?

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 12:20 PM

I lived in New York City for a few years and would escape the city every so often to go visit friends and family in surrounding areas. One place I went frequently was to Salladasburg, near Williamsport, PA, where my father's family had property and my grandparents are buried in a local cemetary. Lovely eastern hardwood area and lots of winding roads through Amish/Mennonite country (it's not just in Lancaster and Bucks Counties) and little towns with lovely squares and lovely old houses. Lots of antiquing in these kinds of places also. Though a lot of the larger towns have reputations for their gritty industrial sides, or for coal mining, they also have some very pretty residential areas.

I visited a Herkimer diamond site near Herkimer, New York, because I'd enjoyed working in a geology lab for a couple of years in college. I wanted to see where they might come from. I didn't find any myself, but I bought a few small ones. (I'm in Texas now and we go to Arkansas for our quartz crystals - not as stunningly clear, necessarily, but large and beautiful and complex in others). Pennsylvania is where some very important early fossil finds where made. Somewhere around here I have some essays about that, I'll have to find the book(s) and send the citations.

Autumn in Pennsylvania is spectacular, especially if you drive through the mountains. Even on the interstate highway it can be a fabulous view.

And don't forget that Mudcat Central is near Penn State.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 10:50 PM

Thanks for the info and the lovely description, SRS. That's just the sort of thing I have in mind.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: LilyFestre
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 11:03 PM

If you are looking for small towns and beautiful countryside, drive a bit farther north (about 5 hours north of Philly). If you love the outdoors, Tioga County PA has been written up in Outdoors Magazine for their Rails To Trails. There are ski areas, snowmobile trails (and places to rent them), loads of great spaces for cross country skiing and in the summer the Rails to Trails is great for biking or walking). A good deal of the Rails to Trails follows Pine Creek, through the PA Grand Canyon and it's wilderness...it's absolutely beautiful!

Michelle who lives in North Central PA

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: Bettynh
Date: 01 Jan 12 - 01:09 PM

Fosssil sites in Penn.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 01 Jan 12 - 02:55 PM

Thanks to both of you! Fern fossils, fern fossils....

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: Janie
Date: 01 Jan 12 - 11:26 PM

John McPhee wrote a wonderful book about the Pine Barrens. It is surely dated now as it was published in 1968, but he has a way of going for the living "truth" of things that either do not perish, or linger as ghosts.

My personal experience of New Jersey is confined to the rest stops on the turnpike, but if ever I have a chance to actually linger, the Pine Barrens is probably the first region for which I will head.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jan 12 - 11:33 PM

I love John McPhee's writing. It is timeless - like John Steinbeck writing about the Sea of Cortez. I vote you read that one just for the heck of it, but you'll also probably find the insight and history enhance a visit no end.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: BK
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 01:01 AM

few other places worth seeing - favorites of mine from growing up in York county;

Mt Pisgah: out of York, take US30 east [or pa 462 - the OLD US30 of my childhood] to just before it crosses the river [or Just on the west edge of Wrightsville if on 462], turn south on "cool creek rd" [may be called cool springs on the N side of 30] down past a golf course & up a good hill to turn R on mt Pisgah rd, drive up to the top, park in the lot on the left, walk out on the hilltop towards the east, & get one of my favorite view of the Susquehanna. If the weather's favorable, it's lovely - it's part of the inspiration for one of my songs.

When you go back to pa462, turn R, go through Wrightsville, cross the neat old original bridge to Columbia, turn L at the first light & R after a couple blocks & then several blocks E [should be signs] to the National Watch and Clock Museum. A largely unheralded superb museum. DON'T miss it!

Peter's Mountain; on th N side of Harrisburg, off I-81, take US22 N to Dauphin [get a new detailed map -they've been changing roads in the town] & in any case get on pa225 going N out of Dauphin, pass pa325 [twice] & keep on 225. It climbs up the mt -bit steep here, but not bad- & at the crest of the mt it makes a VERY SHARP L turn, be prepared!. There is a small parking lot on your R side. the view N is quite nice. the Appalachian trail crosses there & a cabin, usuall locked, is on one side of the road parking lot & there's another lot above the cabin. You can google it. After that you'll be well positioned to head for Hawk Mountain, another favorite spot. Make sure to wear VERY GOOD supportive hiking boots!!

Good luck, & let us know how it goes.. BK

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: LilyFestre
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 01:33 AM

BK,

   I was confused for a minute. In Bradford County (which is in north central PA) there is a lovely park...Mt. Pisgah State Park. It's one of my all time favorite places. :)

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: saulgoldie
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 08:31 AM

Not geology, but...

The Strasburg Railroad in Lancaster county is a real treat.

And I don't know about the timing just yet. But there is a Mudcat discussion of meeting for a tour of the Martin guitar factory (and, no doubt, other hijinks). That'd be a twofer.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: BK
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 10:37 PM

Michelle;

Ya got me?? I just pulled out my DeLorme map program & double-checked memory [always mutable!] &, just as I recall from youth to recent visits, [a LONG time!], just south of Wrightsville is, literally, "Mount Pisgah Road" - if you drive up it to the top of the big hill/small mountain there is a small state park overlooking the river. That road & small Mountain are a long way from the other, evidentally much bigger "Mt Pisgah." Go figger! The other place sounds beautiful. Maybe I can check it out on one our forays back east. Thanks for letting us know.

Cheers, BK

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: BK
Date: 04 Jan 12 - 01:26 AM

just googled mt pisgah - lots of 'em, in many U.S. states - and, apparently, Korea? go figger.. I only went 3 pages in.

"Pisgah" is of Biblical origin; from Wikipedia:
"Pisgah in Hebrew refers to a "high place" like the top of a mountain or to a "cleft". In translation, pisgah lost its meaning and became a mountain's proper name instead of being a term describing a "high place" or ridge". Thus the term refers to a geographic region; a collection of mountain summits.

In Deuteronomy, God commanded Moses to climb up and view the Promised Land from Mount Nebo: "Then Moses climbed Mount Nebo from the plains of Moab to the top of Pisgah, across from Jericho."

Cheers, BK

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Jan 12 - 04:24 AM

Boy, it's hard to decide where to tell you to go. Pennsylvania is the most diverse state in the eastern U.S., with all sorts of things to see. I think the best time is in the fall - the leaf colors can be spectacular. I drove up the Susquehanna from the Chesapeake Bay to Binghamton NY a number of years ago, and that was spectacular because the leaves were at their peak. Two years ago, I drove the Delaware River from Philadelphia to the north end of Delaware Water Gap, another spectacular drive. The drive west from Philadelphia to Lancaster is very interesting, and there's lots to see around Scranton. I really liked the small towns south of Pittsburgh - especially around the Fallingwater estate, designed by Frank Lloyd Wright. Oh, and then the lakeshore at Erie is worth a few days.

In New Jersey, Cape May is great when it's not tourist season. I was there during the raptor count in the fall, and it was fine. After that, I drove the Jersey Shore all the way to Sandy Hook at the entrance to New York Harbor, and it was a wonderful trip with lots of lighthouses. Trenton is very interesting, as are the towns along the Delaware River. Driving the New Jersey side of the Hudson River is nice, too.

Have a great trip. Plan on three weeks or more.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 04 Jan 12 - 09:28 AM

Thanks. That sounds wonderful.

my husband wants to visit Cape May in May. I'm not thrilled about it. Won't it be awfully crowded?

He also wants to visit the railroad museum in Scranton.

I'm going to save this thread, so everybody's contribution here is welcome and useful. If a trooper stops me and asks me if I know what Pisgah means, I'm now prepared for that, too.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 04 Jan 12 - 08:56 PM

"Pennsylvania is the most diverse state in the eastern U.S"

Clearly, Joe hasn't spent enough time in North Carolina!

PA is beautiful and interesting, though. Spent lots of growing-up time in NE PA, and would love to go back as an adult and explore more after learning more about history (family and general) in Wyoming Valley. One of these days.

Will look forward to travel reports!

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Jan 12 - 01:20 AM

Dani, Dani, Dani - you're talking to a legendary tourist here. By my calculations, North Carolina is the second-most diverse state in the eastern U.S. I've been to Asheville, I've been to the Great Smoky Mountains and the Blue Ridge Parkway. I've been to the "Research Triangle." I've driven the entire length of the Outer Banks. I've been to the Dismal Swamp and Beaufort and Cape Lookout, and Camp Lejeune and Wilmington.
What have I missed?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 05 Jan 12 - 10:55 PM

I have to go out of town for a while. Don't think I'm ungrateful if I don't post replies to further suggestions.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 12 - 08:19 PM

If you like old mansions and ruins The main house, cascades, and gardens of "Immergrün" of Charles M. Schwab's, founder of Bethlhem steel in Lorett PA is cool. He gave it to the church whcih quickly vandalized a hundred nude statues.

In Gallitzin PA there is a castle that was imported stone by stone from Russia by the dubious Prince Gallitzin.

There are many profane sounding town names in PA with West Virginia like hollows that won't appear on most maps. I don't know how GPS will handle it nowadays.

The largest and most famous collection of post modern imppresionist Art has recently been stolen by billionaires in a coup along with folks like the Pew foundation and the ex govenor and has been moved to Philadelphia. The original owner put in his will that the collection was never to be moved and every room in the mansion was specifically designed for each painting.

Robt E Lee college, PA Art School , Penn State and many other town and gown communities make interesting lay overs.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jan 12 - 09:45 PM

I donno, Dani, about NC... I do know that Virginia has everything that NC has plus historic Richmond and the Chesapeake Bay... But it has the mountains and areas in southwest that is right in the middle of the Appalachian mountains... Not like Boone or Blowing Rock but real mountain communities...

But I like it here in NC...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: Bettynh
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 12:40 PM

While noodling around Amazon, I found this book, which would be ideal for you, but $35 used? Maybe you could find a copy at your local library.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 03:19 PM

Thanks for the tip about the book, Betty. My library doesn't have it. The book did give me the idea of checking with the PA Geologic Survey, and I'm waiting for a response.

I think somebody should start a series of books called "Spectacular Outcrops of ________."

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: Bettynh
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 04:29 PM

Actually, there are lots of states in the series., but Pennsylvania is out of print for some reason. Maybe it'll be reissued before your trip.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 04:50 PM

Did I mention that Iron City Beer is brewed in PA and can be bought there???

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: GUEST,steves
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 06:24 PM

There are many interesting places in PA and NJ. These are some of my recommendations:
Philadelphia - history, museums, food, and architecture
Bethlehem - history, architecture (there is also a casino if you like that)
the Delaware River (south - between Easton and Philadelphia on both sides of the River) - unique architecture, small villages and river towns, art, food, geological sites mentioned above (north)- the Delaware water gap - Wayne county is beautiful and rural
NE PA and anthracite region - (Scranton area) not the most beautiful countryside (stip mining etc) but interesting historically (mining, Molly Maguires etc) and culturally (customs from Eastern Europe, good pizza, and a unique brogue, heyna) - also Jim Thorpe is very nice (architecture, hiking, trains, art)
Central PA - this area is not well travelled but very nice. It is very rural (mostly farming valleys with tree covered flat ridges) mostly a farming area with many Amish and Mennonite groups (sometimes the majority). There is not much sprawl. Belefonte is nice, as well as Lewisburg and State College. This area doesn't have many sites but it is interesting as awhole.

I am not as familiar with western PA.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: GUEST,steves
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 06:55 PM

I agree with Joe Offer about Pennsylvania being the most diverse eastern state.

Physically - plain, piedmont, mountains and hills, and a Great Lake. (New York can also claim this) North Carolina has an ocean the PA doesn't have.
PA ranges from forests and farms to major cities and "Megalopolis" and sprawl (SE PA)

Culturally - vernacular architecture ranging from New England style clapboard houses and stone walls in the north to Georgian stone houses and bank barns, as well as the lagrgest concentration of eighteenth century houses in America in Philadelphia.
music traditions that encompass both the Northern and Southern traditions as well as PA Dutch traditions.
PA is in between the two dominant cultural regions in America and borders the great lakes and the midwest. I can't htink of any other East Coast state that is similar.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 08:23 PM

And drinking Iron City isn't mandatory----a damn good thing.

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 08:26 PM

But we do like North Carolina, Dani. We really do. I once gave serious consideration to buying a three-story house on the Outer Banks of North Carolina. The next year, those houses were hit by a hurricane.

Guess I'd rather be in California....

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 08:33 PM

Bad, dickie-g, bad...

Iron City should be "America's Beer", you know like the Dallas Cowboys say they are "America's Team"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: a trip to Pennsylvania
From: Greg B
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 08:34 PM

I failed to mention Jim Thorpe, up in the Carbon County coal country. Magnificent old town. And you can ride bikes down some of the old coal trails along the river. Site of some serious labor unrest.

Get in touch with me closer to the time, as the trail riding locale up in the Poconos that was our favorite and closed seems to be fixing to re-open. We'll know by then how the quality of the rides is (the locale is magnificent) and if it is as good as it was, we'll likely join you for a ride at the top of the state. (We believe that light aircraft and horses are the best ways to see any place.)