eBay experiences vs Local Music Store

Subject: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 01:38 PM

Well I just bought a banjo through EBAY. Paid 280.01 (260.01 + shipping) for an old Lyon and Healy open back.

This raised an interesting dilemma for me. I really like my local music store (the House of Musical Traditions in Takoma Park Maryland) and try to support it whenever I can. However, I couldn't get a banjo there for less than 4 to 5 hundred dollars. On the other hand I couldn't play the one that I bought ahead of time. I have also missed out on developing a better relationship with the local store as a result of buying an instrument through them. Interacting with them on the instrument setup etc.

Who else has bought or sold through EBAY? Would you recommend it? Did you have good results? How are you resolving in your own mind that online auctions etc. may drive local stores out of business.

JAB

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Fortunato
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 02:04 PM

JAB. I only buy things from The House of Musical Traditions that I cannot get elswhere. Sure its fun to hang out with other folkies, but except for the owner, whom I've know for 20 years, everyone else seems condescending. Condescenion and high prices are a poor coupling.

If you want a good price on music stuff go to Chuck Levin's in Wheaton. They're no nicer, but they're a helluva lot cheaper. I just bought an autoharp off the ebay. Inexpensive, plays great, good experience. HMT didn't have any, didn't offer to order one, and didn't seem to give a damn. I ordered one through Chuck Levin's and got a big discount. Try asking for a discount at HMT. They'll look down their collective nose at you. @#$% 'em.

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 02:20 PM

I've also bought items from HMT, and Chuck Levin's, and Bill's Music in Catonsville, and ebay. I bought Bose speakers, 802's and 402's (used) on ebay because the stores didn't have them used, and new ones were prohibitively expensive. But I bring all my gear and instruments to the local stores for overhaul, repair and maintenance. You can't do that with ebay. ALL the best. Seamus

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 02:29 PM

That's too bad about HMT. We will have to talk sometime about it. I had the same opinion for a long time, especially with some of the oldtimers there. I would ask a question and they would look at me like I was stupid or something.

They have gotten a couple of new staffers though that seems to be changing their outlook. Two in particular are Robin Bullock and the new woman assistant manager (can't remember her name). Both are very helpful, friendly, and generally nice. The same can be said for Stream Olstrom. I was sorry to see Tony go.

JAB

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 03:23 PM

Be careful buying on EBay. There is, for example, a "Gibson" banjo there right now. I put "Gibson" in quotes because it appears to be a fake, and a fake known to the seller and to E-Bay. This based on messages on Banjo-L, from VERY knowledgeable people, who have corresponded with the seller, advising him that it is not what is represented. Don't buy from E-Bay without safeguards, such as an independent expert's inspection and/or money deposited in an escrow service, with some reasonable period to inspect the merchandise and right of refusal before the money is turned over to the seller.
And don't expect to look to E-Bay to protect you from fraud, either. They have been (in this and other instances) informed of a fraudulent item and will do nothing about it, even though they have what they are pleased to call a fraud department.
Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Sorcha
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 03:52 PM

Second that! I don't buy ANY thing on line, so I have never bought from them, but I have heard some real horror stories! Some good buys, too, if you watch out and use the safegaurds--insist on return privilige if not as represented!

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Chet W.
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 03:58 PM

I have bought some banjo parts on Ebay, but never a whole instrument because of the uncertainty about genuineness as mentioned above and also, even though the prices do sometimes beat the local music store, they are often not nearly as good as buying from an instrument's owner or maker. The thing that's different about Ebay compared to traditional auctions is that you lose the advantage of possibly being the only or one of a few people there who actually want the thing you're bidding on. On Ebay the same instrument I want is checked out by thousands of people. And often the prices do get out of hand, I guess because it doesn't seem like real money when you're sitting at the computer. The transactions I have done, however were very pleasant. It's important to check the seller's rating. If it's not good, just wait, you'll soon see the same item from a better source. The better sellers also usually offer a money-back guarantee. Just be careful as always. Chet

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Dulci46
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 04:58 PM

When buying off of Ebay you need to check the prices with different places to be sure you are not going to pay more buying from Ebay.. this almost happened to me I would have paid double what I could have paid at a store. Fortunately I was outbid. On the other hand I did buy a 1979 Oscar Schmidt autoharp in mint condition. Had never been played, for a real good price.

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 05:08 PM

Interesting Dave mentioning the time bit. The biggest worry I would have with purchasing any instrument is that I would want to try it before parting with cash.

I try to support local music shop (when I have any money to spend) and it is run by somebody who has been a frien of mine for around 15 years but I would still go elsewhere for a banjo. When I bought my last one I travelled about 80 miles so I could try a few I was interested in before buying but I know sometimes far greater distances are involved.

I bought mine from Sully's in Macclesfield UK and subsequently got involved in a conversation with somebody in California who was interested in his instruments. I was a little nervous but said I regarded the highly and he ordered one (even had it made to his own custom spec). I don't know what return options he would have had but I am pleased to say that in this instance it worked well and he was delighted in his purchase.

Jon

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: GUEST,Bill in Alabama
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 05:18 PM

I buy quite frequently from ebay, and I have, in the past, purchased a guitar from them. I was quite happy with it, and I figure I got a great deal. As a matter of fact, JAB, I was following that Lyon and Healy open back with great interest; it looks like a fine instrument. I believe that I spotted the Gibson as a phony. There are ways to go through escrow with high-ticket items such as musical instruments. I forgot--I also bought a long-neck banjo on ebay a year or so ago, and I've been happy with it, although I probably will not use it onstage.

Now-- to the music store thing. I have never bought an instrument from a music store, but I do believe that cultivating a relationship with a good local store is important (and economical). The store I use gives me a discount as a professional, and they will let me rent a piece of sound equipment for a special gig or a mixing board if I'm doing a multi-track thing where I play all the instruments in an arrangement. They used to sell us strings in bulk when we were a road-band, and they have provided us with many courtesies. On the other hand, if they don't give you some consideration as a regular customer, find a store which will do so.

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: alison
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 07:39 PM

I am still waiting for 2 whistles I bought from ebay (they were also in the mudcat auction).... but I reckon they'll turn up soon...... Oz is a long way away....

I saw a gorgeous looking harp there a few weeks back for a ridiculously low price so I checked it out with our resident harp specialist (Helen)...... who put it to her friends on the harplst and advised me to avoid it like the plague....... handy to have friends who know what they are talking about....

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Willie-O
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 09:58 PM

I spent a fair bit of time looking at guitars and misc instruments on eBay, bid on a few things, never bought anything. For one thing its essentially an American site, the prices are in U.S. dollars and I think lots of name-brand instruments are flowing from Canada into the American market because they sell for more there by the time you figure the 45% exchange rate clipping, shipping, and various duties and taxes we get to pay, than I would pay at a decent small-town Canadian store.

If you don't have to pay all those hidden costs--i.e., if you're in the States--it seems like a good place to buy $200 guitars for $100 or so, and of course a certain number of inexpensive instruments are good value, but it's impossible to know which ones. The collectibles that are identifiable by name and model almost never sell below the going rate for obvious reasons.

Usually any instrument with even a dubious claim to a famous name --"Martin Sigma", or the well-worn, usually inaccurate "Epiphone by Gibson" will be marketed as such.

One exception was an old "Ditson" mandolin, which I followed with considerable interest and even bid on. Ditson was a department store for which CF Martin manufactured instruments in the teens and twenties, and this was clearly one of their A-style mandolins, and THE SELLER DID NOT KNOW THIS. Bidders sure did though, it ended up fetching over $700 U.S. (a Martin A-style mandolin, any year, goes for about $500 at Elderly).

I don't know about eBay or online displacing real music stores, since most real music stores are learning fast that part of their business can be online sales. It's basically a sellers' market. I think about selling my stuff there, but I'm a little reluctant to turn into another "reverse carpetbagger".

Willie-O

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 10:50 PM

Agree with every word Willie. If you want REAL bargains..haunt the garage sales, the untrendy antique and junk stores, and find out which music stores are known as "pro shops", and which are the "Mom and Pop" stores. Pro shops CAN'T rip you off, 'cause the word will spread faster than melted butter.

Rick

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 11:05 PM

Willie does have it pegged, but I notice that "off" instruments seem to be the ones we hear of people buying. Autoharps and the like always seem to get better reviews as far as the e-Bay thing goes. I would imagine it has to do with the higher interest in guitars and such and hence they fetch some ridiculous prices. The days of finding a bargain on some rare Martin are pretty much long gone there.

Spaw

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 11:32 PM

I have watched autoharp prices go through the roof too. I have bought old song books and other things through EBay. I even bought my first banjo there two years ago for 100 dollars. It pays to know what you want, know what is good and bad, and know what you are willing to spend.

This is the first time I was looking to buy what I would consider to be a quality instrument. I was leary, but finally figured why not after looking at the seller's comments. He seemed reputable. I'll let people know if I got a good deal when I get the banjo.

Also, it is important to note that I was not looking for an "investment" or find a great deal. I just wanted a good playable banjo in the $200 to $300 dollar range. In fact I've seen several banjos and other instruments go for way more than they would sell for in a store as the bidders get bidders fever in the last hour. One was in the HMT store for $600. They put it in EBAY and I think it went for $700. Another engry level Gretsch went last week for over $300.00 while a much much better Gretsch went this week for $280. They were not comparable at all.

So it pays to be careful and e-mail the sellers with questions.

I think my original post was as concerned about what role the small acoustic music store will play in the future as it was with good / bad experiences with ebay. I know in the last two years the online sales of CDs have had an impact on the local CD stores here, especially the used CD and book stores. Ironically, it has in my mind caused the selection and variety to dwindle! I used to find all sorts of used CDs and a great variety in the local used CD store. When I look for these same CDs online they aren't there. I guess they figure there isn't a big enough niche market for them.

JAb

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 11:40 PM

One thing that is confusing me on this is are we taking about a fair market price for an instrument or an instrument you like playing. I have never had this honour but I could possibly pick up 2 "identical" Maritin guaitars of the same model and vintage and love one and hate the other.

I am not even a good player but instrument wise, I know if I like the feel, the tone etc or if I don't and can't see hhow that can be found out without acutally picking the thing up and trying it.

Jon

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: MK
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 11:56 PM

I agree with those advocating NOT buying anything online...at least for the time being...and especially paying by credit card.

I have had 2 separate bad experiences, which could have been worse, but thankfully weren't.

The first involved buying some blank CD labels in bulk from a place in California, and paid for it online via the supposed ''secure server'' thingy. Order gets processed and I receive the labels within a week. 3 months go by, and suddenly out of the blue, UPS shows up at my door, with 5 more shipments of labels....which I never ordered...I contact the credit card company and sure as hell these shysters in CA put through another order 5 times, and since they had my credit card info, billed it to me. I contacted the company in California, and screamed at them, and threatened to contact the police, FBI, etc....just ranting at them (because if people are convinced you are a total lunatic and highly unstable you're more likely to get your way (--so much for honey vs. vinegar) at least that's been my experience...and in the end, they refunded the entire amount charged, and, told me to keep the labels...hehehehehe.....so I've got 5000 blank CD labels sitting here, enough to last me the rest of my life.

Second bad experience was buying some CDs online through CD Universe 6 months ago and like an idiot I figured the California thing was an isolated flukey experience..so I paid once again via credit card. A month and a half ago, I read in the news that this site got hacked, and the hacker was blackmailing the owners of the site for 6 figures in exchange for not publishing all the credit card info online...and to let the owners know he was serious, he published 20 or 30 thousand of them..The moment I read this on CNN's website, I immediately cancelled the card, and ordered a new one. Two weeks later CD Universe informs me through a mass emailing about the hack, and the security breach..Very timely of them. In any event, this morning, I receive an email from them telling me they've since plugged the hole and have hired 2 private internet security firms to keep things ship shape, and they offer me 10 bucks off of any CD purchase. Yeah right. When is hell freezing over?

Until some much better encryption comes along, or all e-commerce is conducted through private un-hackable networks with links to but operating independently of the internet, I won't be buying anything else on line.

You're playing Russian Roulette giving out credit card info online, no matter how secure you think a website is. Hackers are clever, intelligent, and resourceful and will figure out a way to ''drop their shields''.

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 01:04 AM

Well, The Mudcat shop, Folk-Legacy and Camsco are saddened by folks' refusal to buy anything online. The Mudcat Shop, as far as I can tell, is quite secure; if that's not secure enough for you, both Camsco and F-L have voice-mail numbers that you can order through. If you use those numbers, be sure to mention Mudcat--that way the site gets a commission.

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 01:16 AM

Well Dick, I have my reservations about purchasing musical instruments without playing the but there are plenty of products that I would happily buy on line if I ever had any money to spend. My only online shopping experiences have been with CDNow a couple of years ago and they were happy ones (proved to be cheaper and more reliable than my local UK shop!).

I rarely puchase anything (unemployed) but would have no hesitation in online shopping with any of the above - in fact I would be quite pleased to offer what little bit of trade I had in those directions.

Jon

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 02:48 AM

Not only have I purchased speakers from ebay, I've also purchased a couple of Peavey powered mixers and a few Shure SM 58s (all used) for considerably less than store price. I have spoken with the sellers by e-mail and been satisfied that they were good deals. I recently bought 50 sets of Martin medium-gauge acoustic phosphor bronze guitar strings for $50. A store couldn't match that. However, for my instrument needs - guitars, mandolins, etc. I'd go to a store. All the best. Seamus

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 04:49 AM

Don't knock your playing Jon...it's very sound! I'd also agree entirely about buying instruments. I'd never buy anything I couldn't try in person. There are just too many bad examples around, either in the build, materials, used or badly cared for, even with the "big name" makes.

I've bought some great instruments both privately and in music shops. I now stick to stores run by people I know are honest and knowledgeable. I wouldn't go near one or two of the well-known stores who claim to be specialists and have an on-line presence...through personal experience with them and having run a specialist acoustic instrument and repair business myself, their advice and service is frankly sometimes not worth a tinker's cuss.

Ask here at the Mudcat if you want an opinion. There are some very knowledgeable people all round the globe and they will certainly be able to direct you to a reputable and trustworthy local source.

Like Jon I don't have any trouble buying on-line with certain items like CDs. Even got fantastic service on a rather hard-to-get item by post to Belgium here from a little specialist store in Sydney, Cape Breton Island, NS.

All the best,

mcmoo

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Fortunato
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 11:06 AM

JAB Yes we can discuss HMT. I was there recently to buy an autoharp tuning wire. I didn't notice any change in attitude, but I may be jaded. I'm reminded of the time Leo Kottke dropped by the Alexandria Folklore Center years ago. Kottke picked up a twelve string to look at it, and the manager, I'll withhold the name, asked if Kottke he would like some lessons to learn to play. Kottke ripped off a few licks, the man's jaw dropped when he recognized the playing and the player. He didn't talk that lessons stuff anymore to strangers. HMT ain't learned and I don't care enough to give them a lesson in humility.

Fortunato

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 11:32 AM

Hi Jon. You make a HUGE point. Just because an instrument says "Martin" (or Gibson, or Guild etc.) on it does not mean you'll like it, or even in about 30% of the cases, that it's a really good instrument. A great Takamine beats an average Martin most of the time, and you won't know that til you play both. NEVER spend 3 grand on a "name instrument" without trying it.

OK, here's trouble, but it's true in my experience. I would not hesitate to buy from Dick Greenhaus (by the way Dick, do you carry my Borealis and F-L CDs?) or Folk Legacy or virtually any established "FOLK" business on line. Simply because over the years I've NEVER been ripped off by one. It's the "Folk ethic". I've come to believe that there really IS a difference.

Rick

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Jon W.
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 11:47 AM

I wish I could'a been there to see that. Leo Kottke--wow.

My experience with eBay: I only bid what I want to spend. So far I've bought a tenor banjo in sad shape that I converted to 5-string and restored, two sets of banjo tuners, neither of which I've used yet but they were the right price, and I just sent a check for a long neck Harmony reso-tone banjo (missing the 5th-string peg) that I got for at least $40 less than what almost all the other Reso-tones I've tracked had sold for. It hasn't arrived yet but I'll let you know when it does. I've had good experiences so far, pay by check by snail-mail, and don't pay more than I'm willing to part with. Oh, yeah, we bought a viola for $80 for my daughter. I guess it's worth about that much. You get what you pay for.

Jon W.

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 11:53 AM

Yes to Fortunato (that's why I won't take lessons from them, especially the person that teaches clawhammer banjo).

Yes to Rick. It may have something to do with the fact that most of us are into it for the love of it. Money is good but it is not the motivating factor. The music business, on the other hand, is a business with all of the trappings (managers with low ethics, people trying to scam both the public and musicians, musicians with attitude, etc. etc.)

I have never met a folkie without a certain passion in their music. I am constantly amazed when I meet music teachers and other "professionals" that don't have that passion. It's just 9 to 5 for them. My question is where did it go?

JAB

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Wincing Devil
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 12:05 PM

HMT used to be an excellent source for folk music CDs. Now they've cut back on the CD collection, featuring only local folksies. I like to go in and absorb the music. The ONLY source I've ever had for the only instrument I play, the Nose Flute.

the problem with Ebay is that you never know if you're gonna get what you want. Some of the auctions are over 10 days long! And the bullsh*t about reserve prices will drive you nuts. My wife has had sellers email her about the item that she was second highest on, offering to sell it for her bid. That's good for the seller & buyer, but ebay says that they will clamp down on it.

CAVEATREAD THE DESCRIPTION CAREFULLY! don't buy anything unless there's a picture of what your getting.

Wincing_Devil
What do you mean you "Formatted the Cat"???

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: BK
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 10:20 PM

DITTO on HMT, sadly.. ATTITUDE is definitely a problem, as is price.. I do buy strings on-line, for some excellent prices & selections. Have hesitated abt instruments due, like mant others, I wanna actually PLAY them!

HAPPY ST PADDY's DAY!! (also our anniversary; she's been able to tolerate me for 27 incredible years! A Saint, I have terrible GAS [guitar aquisition syndrome] & it gotta be a real pain in the **&*&^%$, as well as pain in the budget, at times to even the sweetest spouse... Spaw! how many years has yer's tolerated you??)

Cheers, BK

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 29 Mar 00 - 11:24 PM

Ok: My faith in fellow humans is at an all time low!!!

In the last week I have received two (yes two) banjos I bought on ebay. Both of them are unplayable!!!!

The first was a noname banjo I "won" for 91.01 plus $10.00 shipping. It was supposed to be a great frailer and it is when you avoid fretting the 4th or 3rd strings on the 2,3, and 4th frets. Someone in the past jammed the 5th string tuner in the neck so hard that it caused a bulge in the fret board!!! and they said that they neck was straight and without problems!!!

The second was supposed to be MY BANJO. It is the Lyon and Healy that I started this thread with. It arrived today and looks like someone doctored it up just so it would take pretty pictures on ebay and sell. The fingerboard has been painted black. It has a fret marker on the 10th fret that has been hidden. How a fret marker got out of sequence on the 10th fret I'll never know. It has an action of 3/8" at the foot of the fret board and over 1/4" at the 12th fret. It also has a bridge that looks like it has never been used and is too wide. Every time I try to bring it up to tune the 1st and 5th strings pop out. I can't play it!!!! I'm crying inside!!!

I have sure learned my lesson the hard way.

JAB

P.S. If anyone has suggestions on how to fix these things let me know.

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 12:24 AM

Well Jim.......You'd alredy made the purchase when the thread started, but the general opinion here has been, as it has in other threads, don't buy it til you play it unless you can ABSOLUTELY trust the seller and they're are but a few that would meet that kind of sight unseen criteria. Your L&H is worth fixing and parts are available. Stewart-MacDonald in Athens Ohio has an excellent stock and they're very fine folks, I assure you.

So are you bidding on anything else?

Spaw

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 12:30 AM

Thanks Spaw:

Not in the forseeable future, unless I ask lots and lots of questions and get a return if not satisfied promise ahead of time.

JAB.

P.S. I bought my first banjo, an old open back Kay, on ebay about two years ago and have been very happy with it. I just wanted something a little better now.

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: alison
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 12:41 AM

sorry to hear about that JAB... you were really looking forward to it.....

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Fortunato
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 08:23 AM

Hey JAB, sorry to hear that. Take heart, you're paying the price for all of us and will no doubt save someone from a a bad mistake. I hope spaw's repair place can get your banjo back in shape. Let us know how it goes. Sorry, pal.

Regards Fortunato

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Willie-O
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 08:54 AM

Bummer JAB. I'm curious...what were the "positive/negative feedback" ratings for the two banjo-pushers that took your money?

One suspects that it would be pretty easy to trade positive feedback points among users who want to boost their positive feedback ratings, the better to scam people with.

W-O

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Fortunato
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 10:58 AM

JAB It would suit me fine if you were to post for information puposes the ebay names or ids of those who sold you the banjos. Nothing says we can't put out a "wire" on them. As Rick has said, the news spreads like melted butter. Let spread! Cheers Fortunato

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: wlisk
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 11:57 AM

Buying on ebay can be quite risky therefor with a major purchase it is wise to use an escrow service. I bought the Ditson mandolin referenced by Willie O. It is a beautiful instrument well worth about 2x what was paid. By the way Willie O it is a Martin C model not a B model that does sell for 500 -600 dollars. We have bought others too a Lachenal Concertina, that is a wonderful concertina. However do your homework, check references & feedback. Buyer beware!!!!

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Jon W.
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 01:46 PM

JAB, I don't think the position marker on the tenth fret is out of the ordinary for banjos. I've seen plenty of them there on pictures and real life. Sometimes they are at the 9th, sometimes at the 10th.

My long neck Harmony reso-tone arrived last week. I was somewhat disappointed to see that the "beautiful" Bakelite pot had been chrome plated (I didn't know they did that) and also it was not only missing the fifth string tuner as I expected but also the first string tuner post and gear - though the shaft was there. The picture on eBay was terribly out of focus. But I still think the price I paid was worth it and I knew going in it was a fixer upper. I'll attribute the other things to the seller's ignorance of banjos, not malevolence.

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 07:18 PM

We've only bought on ebay once and were very pleased with the transaction.

We were browsing through the autoharps looking for yet another Model 73 (black "A" style with 12 bars). We share these with kids in conjunction with our school programs and are always looking for a deal on another one even though we already own about a dozen of them. Suddenly, there it was - one of the first (if not THE first) model 73s ever made. From the pictures it was easily identifiable as vintage 1898. We e-mailed the seller with several questions and he seemed to be very forthright with his answers. We paid $76 plus $20 for shiping and when it arrived it was exactly as advertised - no better, no worse.

We're still doing some repairs on it but we're using it on the stage and are delighted with it.

On the other hand, your milage may vary.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Willie-O
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 07:41 PM

Small world eh Wlisk! Glad you're happy with the Ditson (Martin) mando. Did the seller ever figure out what he had, and did he say "Doh!"?

W-O

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Gypsy
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 12:30 AM

Well, lets see, in the way of instruments, we've purchased a twelve string, hammer dulcimer, and two mandolins. So far, all have been exactly as represented. I do highly recommend that on anything of high value/dollar amount, that you make use of I escrow, which is available at a minimal cost. That way, you can see the beast, and if it is unacceptable, you will get your money back once the seller recieves thier merchandise back. Here are a few basic rules: Set your price, and don't exceed it. If you have ANY questions, email the seller. Don't bid until they reply. Do your homework on what the thing is worth. Thus far, have had good experiences. We patronize our local music stores, but being way out in the small end of nothing whittled down to a fine point, the selection is nil. Mail order, and now online, helps alot. Oh yeah, check with your credit card company about fraud online. Ours will cover us for any problems or fraud. If yours doesn't, request it, or change companies. Okay fine?

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 12:47 AM

Hi JAB. I'm really sorry you got burned. I'm pretty cynical about things like E-Bay, but not because I think anyone's trying to rip anyone off. (I'm sure it happens occasionally) It's just that an instrument really has to feel "a part of you" before you can be really happy with it. Now I know this is corny but there's a "courting process" I think. I've just seen a wonderful hand -made Rizsanyi 14 fret parlor guitar at one of the shops here in Toronto. I played it for an hour on Monday, an hour on Tuesday, and since I teach Wednesdays and Thursdays, I won't see it until tomorrow. I'll play it again and if it really "speaks to me" or "speaks for me" I'm seriously gonna think about buying it. If the vibes are right and the feeling continues, I may get it the day before I leave for the States on tour (next Friday). If someone else comes along and grabs it in the meantime...well that's what was meant to be. This "courting" process is part of the fun for me, so I could never buy something sight unseen. Better luck next time.

Rick

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Songster Bob
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 01:07 AM

Well, I'm "Songbob" on Ebay, and have been buying and seling there for more than three years. I've been pretty lucky, so far. I have bought the following (see if you can spot a trend): Oahu lap steel, Orpheum archtop (made by Kay), D'Agostino Les Paul copy, several effects pedals, an electrified mandolin, an add-on electric pickup, a Danelectro reissue, a Silvertone archtop, and a Samick Ray Benson telecaster guitar, plus odds and ends like cases, straps and connecting cords. The trend, of course, is that all of the instruments save the Orpheum and the Silvertone were electric instruments or accessories, and most of them were newish. I wouldn't trust to buying antique instruments, particularly acoustic ones.

I've sold a uke, a strat copy, a tenor banjo, a five-string, the mandolin mentioned above (minus the pickup, which I put on one of my mandolins), several jazz 45s, three boxes of comic books, and odds and ends like castanets and a Vega banjo wrench. I am about even, buying and selling, if you leave out two instruments I bought for myself (as a birthday present and as a celebration of selling a property recently) and one I bought my sister. Include them, and I'm about $500 behind, but I now have a nice collection (see http://members.aol.com/rjclayton/instrums.jpg).

Ebay used to be THE place to get bargains. Now it's much less that and much more a national and a little international clearinghouse for goods. If you want to get an idea of the current value of an instrument, do a search on Ebay and average the last 50 of them that sold (making sure they're exactly the model you're interested in). Ebay is more accurate than a "blue book," since it represents real prices, not what a group of store owners thinks a given piece should bring.

Not that things don't sometimes get out of hand. The other day I say a Stella/Harmony six string (NOT a Sovereign) at over $225, when similar ones normally go for $40-60. "Mint," they called it. Mint is what they made!

I always have to remember, though, that Ebay prices do not include the shipping, so I mentally add $10-30, depending on what item it is (e.g., the picks I just bought will be shipped for $1, and the amp I bought six months ago cost $30 to ship).

I like Ebay, and will buy and sell there (carefully, of course). There was a Gibson guitar from Japan, for example, which had a plate on the back saying "Made in Japan," of which I would be leery (so were all the other bidders -- it was at $46 with an hour to go). And I'm especially careful about "no-picture" ads.

But caveat emptor pluribus unum, I say. I like the place.

Bob Clayton

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 03:50 AM

Looks like Songster Bob's GAS is in remission but looks like brother Rick is about to lapse again, get him to a meeting, Toronto 'catters before it's too late!
RtS (who doesn't have GAS but who can't be trusted to pass a book or record shop. I have to confess that even though I can't play anything I DO have the Peter Seeger banjo book! And I often look longingly in the windows of musical instrument shops, at those lovely, guitars, banjos, baritone & soprano saxaphones, mandolines.... how sad is that?!)

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 11:04 AM

Oh Roger, I suffer from more than GAS. BAS, and RAS as well. I'm hopeless.

Rick

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 11:22 AM

Yes you are Rick, but I also think that for the sake of all parties concerned, that you're carrying "protection" when you go out on your next date with "Miz Riz." In this case, protection would be an empty checkbook or possibly the presense of Heather....with a ballbat.

Spaw

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 22 Apr 00 - 09:59 PM

UPDATE!

Well my EBAY experiences are over and I would like to report that everything turned out OK.

I took the Lyon and Healy to a fantastic banjo repairman that by chance lives here in Silver Spring, Jim BumGardner. He inspected it and confirmed that it was not playable. I then communicated this to the seller along with several statements of what would happen if I did not get my money back. Even though he "had sold the banjo for a friend" he agreed to return the money. Today, I cashed the refund check. He even gave me back my shipping charges.

On the other banjo I bought for $90 the week before. Jim was able to replace the 5th string tuner, straighten the bump in the neck caused by the previous one, and do a general setup. All for $40.00. He even threw in an old case for free. Now I have a nice little frailer with a skin head. It's ugly and built from parts but it works!

It will be awhile before I buy from EBAY again.

The main lesson I learned is be very cautious and ask many many many questions ahead of time. It doesn't hurt to simply ask "do you know of any known defects", and "Is the banjo playable in its current condition (playable means to me: no noticeable buzzes,and clean scales up and down the neck on each string)"

Anyway, I'm back to looking for a playable open back that I can afford (around $300). I'm partial to instruments with a very strong bass feel.

JAB

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Apr 00 - 10:09 PM

Thanks for the update Jim........Just one question.

What is a BumGardner?

Now I know its a fertile area and all, but what kind of guy goes into something like that? I'm frankly appalled that you would know such a person.......You have never seemed like one of those types to me and I guess I'm just a bit shocked. But now that I've adjusted a bit, lemmee ask, what are the main crops that grow well there? Asstilbe? Assparagus?

Just curious.

Spaw

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 22 Apr 00 - 10:13 PM

will you get help Spaw?

Glad to hear it worked out JAB. I think I may have been too hard on old E-Bay. I guess asking A LOT of questions (and the right ones) is probably the best bet.

Rick

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Apr 00 - 11:12 PM

You're right Rick.....I do need help. Specifically, I figure I need about 300 people to lay around on their stomachs for 24 hours a day for a few months. See, asparagus takes tears to grow, but if I can get a good geal on two year old crowns I can start capitalizing on this scheme right away. Asparagus is going for about 3 bucks a pound and I could make a killing if I could grow say 3 pounds per ass per season. That's be 2700 bucks that I could use. I bet I could get more if I advertized it as "Organically Grown." Wonder what the possibilities of getting a bunch of Amish folks would be. That "Amish" bit combined with "Organically Grown" could really pay off!! Hey.......Heather likes gardening. Do ya' think she'd be interested in helping out here?

Spaw

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 22 Apr 00 - 11:23 PM

Pat! Calm down. Right now. Perhaps this will help.

click

Subject: RE: EBAY experiences vs Local Music Store
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Apr 00 - 11:54 PM

WOW!!! What a fine piece of equipment!!! And for onl $11.49 too. Ya' think that Bonnie or Michael would get me one as Passover gift? I mean man like you got a meal and a JVC tapedeck.......Is this too much to ask?

Spaw