BS: Smoking ban in Ontario

Subject: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 02:36 PM

It's about f#cking time!

Story Here

If Ireland can make it work, there's no reason we can't

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Sooz
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 02:41 PM

Here's to clean air for all! Enjoy.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Peace
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 02:44 PM

I'm a smoker. Fine by me, and it's long overdue, IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Peace
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 02:54 PM

PS The notion that smokers have 'rights' is stupid. The only time I object to peopl telling me 'they are breathing my second-hand smoke and would I please . . .' is when I have sat myself down a hundred feet away, down wind, and they come sit near me. I tell them to take a hike, politely of course.

I do not have the right to stand up wind and smoke. Besides, everyone's moanin' about rights: it's just manners and common sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: ToulouseCruise
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 02:58 PM

They just put it in as of Oct 1st here in New Brunswick, Canada. The bars are suffering sales-wise, however it is soooooooo much nicer to be able to play a show in a smoke free environment....

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 03:03 PM

"The bars are suffering sales-wise"

That might happen short term, but it won't last...

People tried to say that movie theatres would close when they went non smoking... they didn't

People tried to say the subways would grind to a halt.... they didn't...

They tried to say airline travel would be foreced to shut down... It wasn't....

Bars/casinos/etc will survive...   and maybe more people will too!

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: ToulouseCruise
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 03:13 PM

exactly... we have this one individual who has a smokeshop in the downtown core of the city, in the bar areas... he is trying to get the law repealed, with petitions, letters to the editor, etc. He even goes into bars and smokes cigars, HOPING to get charged... what an ass!

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 03:33 PM

So have him charged...

Sounds like he deserves it...

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: ToulouseCruise
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 03:52 PM

The problem is that no bar is willing to do it... the individual will face a fine of a couple hundred dollars, but the bar gets a fine of around a thousand!!

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 04:01 PM

There must be some recourse for the bar....

"We have asked him to put it out, and we've asked him to leave, and he refuses" I'd imagine that'd go a LONG way....

Oh have the 'bouncer' bounce him! (If some of the ones I know got a hold of him, he'd be VERY slow in returning... LOL)

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: GUEST,Charmion at work
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 04:06 PM

My colleagues and I just went out for lunch in the Byward Market, a now-fashionable area of Ottawa just hotching with up-scale restaurants. Five years ago, Before The Ban, the room would have been grey and reeking with smoke. Today, we walked into a heavenly aroma of delicious food that piqued the appetite and made us all eat considerably more enthusiastically than we expected to. Like every other restaurant in the Byward Market, our restaurant was jammed.

The only bars and restaurants in Ottawa that lost business After The Ban were the ones that catered to those sad folks who spend their afternoons and evenings chainsmoking while nursing a lager and gazing at the ceiling-mounted television. I always suspected they went out because they couldn't stand to pollute their own space, and the taverns and greasy spoons couldn't make them stop!

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 04:07 PM

Here's a page with information (from "Action of Smoking and Health) about the impact of the ban in Ireland - Impact of smoke-free legislation in Ireland
It apppears the numbers of people visiting pubs after the ban was introduced actually rose. On the other hand, the overall bar sales appear to be marginally lower - equivalent to a 4% annual drop, consistent with a fall in bar sales over previous years.

But the most interesting figure is this: "Polling by independent research company Amarach Consulting found that 89% of respondents believed the ban was a great success and only 10% saying it was unsuccessful. Even smokers admitted that the smoking ban has been a success, with nearly 90% believing the law has worked.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 04:19 PM

Tum -te tum -te tum-te tum...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 05:05 PM

Now do the one that goes "Tum tum tum... tee tum-tum"

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Mooh
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 05:30 PM

Yup, it's about time. Smoke kept me from gigging years ago when I just couldn't stand it anymore. Played a smoke free Legion hall a couple of weeks ago and it was busier than usual, and a very pleasant atmosphere.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 05:37 PM

There's a phrase I NEVER thought I'd see in Canada... "Smoke Free Legion Hall"

LOL

I have to admit... for vets... I'd look the other way (And this doesn't address the 2nd hand issues for servers at all) But if you got yer boots bloody defending my country, I think you've earned the right to a frigg'n smoke should you want one... I think it looks appaling when I drive past a legion hall in winter, and see groups of little old dudes... clustered in small circles like sheep, with their backs to the wind... Even the heaters of their smokes look cold...

But that might just be 'sentimental'...

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 05:42 PM

Glad you didn't have to hold your breath too long Clint...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 05:46 PM

Did anyone else hear a buzzing just now?

No?

Might been just me...

oh well...

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: hesperis
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 06:22 PM

Wow, very glad to hear this.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Charmion
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 07:40 PM

Akenaton, just what is your problem? Why are you apparently chucking s**t at people who are rejoicing in a social change that is adding joy and pleasure to their lives? Do you own stock in Imperial Tobacco? Do you even live in Ontario? State your case and stop dragging your coat!

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: PennyBlack
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 07:52 PM

Why don't they just stop the import and sale of tobacco or does the Tax and duty have something to do with it?

Passive smoking? we had to buy our own in my day

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 07:57 PM

Charmion...Just a little joke with a buddy...

Im very pleased about the smoking ban.
Here in Scotland, smoking is to be banned in all public places, and not before time.

I would much prefer to see a total ban on cigarette production, but the government rake in too much tax to allow that....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: hesperis
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 07:59 PM

I might even be able to get a part-time job in a couple of years! And KEEP it! Because I wouldn't get so sick that I wouldn't be able to work.

Of course, only if they ban all lawn-spray too, but one can hope.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Charmion
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 08:05 PM

Ake, I'm really sorry I bit your head off. I was reading a thread about selling a Yamaha guitar that Martin Gibson made nasty for no discernible reason -- something that happens a lot these days -- and am therefore rather over-sensitive.

We hope to go to Scotland again soon, and I look forward to supping my pint of Caledonian without holding my nose!

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Joybell
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 08:24 PM

Great! Good work! We had to stop playing AND going to friends' birthday parties and shopping and having lunch out and everything else a few years back. Now we're able to go out again. Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Mooh
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 09:10 PM

Yes sir, who'da thought smoke free Legion halls? I bet the truth is that there are more who are relieved than not about a smoke free Legion, but nobody especially Legion members would dare make it an issue, on account of the vets should get what they want for their sacrifice. Smoke is why I didn't renew my own membership years ago, smoke kept my Dad and many of his friends, all vets, from enjoying their hall as they could have. I think it's time for the change.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 01:29 PM

Why don't they just stop the import and sale of tobacco...

Theu tried that in the States with alcoholic drink, and it proved disastrous. And they are still trying to do it with Cannabis, and that's been disastrous too, even if the people in charge can't bring themselves to say so.

I suspect that if they tried Prohibition on tobacco it might well end up with it being cheaper than it is now, and as widespread as ever. Limiting the places where you can smoke tobacco, but leavinbg it up to people to smoke anywhere else seems a pretty sensible midway solution. Maybe they'll move on to a similar compromise for other things, in sensible countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: artbrooks
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 01:42 PM

We've had smoke-free here for a while now and, as far as I know, not a single bar has closed. The Legion Halls are exempt...they are considered private clubs rather than public places.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 01:45 PM

If you read the article AB, you'll see that this new 'law' is gonna affect "Private Clubs" as well... Because it's less a personal freedom issue than it is a worker health and safety issue...

("smokers rights"?? HA!)

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 01:50 PM

I think what happens in private clubs is that they have a vote to decide whether the want to allow smoking. Seems pretty sensible to me.

I think the ban in Scotland comes into effect in 2006?

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 02:06 PM

" in private clubs is that they have a vote"

Not here, according to the proposal... there won't be an option...

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Cluin
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 04:23 PM

The smoking ban will give a great boost to all the biker "speaks" in communities all over Ontario.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 04:31 PM

Well, I know some will wanna spend more time in MY speak-easy!   

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Cluin
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 04:45 PM

You've got a blind pig down there, clanmate?   ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 04:58 PM

With a keg of Guinness and a dart board even!

Why oh why do you think keep inviting you to come visit???

LOL

As a matter of fact though... some of the 'dudes' (the 5 or 6 guys who kick in for shares of the keg) have been gearing up to quit... So there might be a move afoot to make my speak-easy non-smoking as well, to remove temptation...

And well, what beats a basement full of drunken, jittery, recent-quitters with sharp throwing instruments eh?????

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Cluin
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 05:09 PM

Gee, I think I might even have to come visit some time then. ;)

I'll bring my shafts.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 05:23 PM

People keep on talking as if giving up smoking has to mean giving up tobacco, and giving up tobacco has to mean giving up smoking. Neither of which is in fact true.

One way of giving up smoking

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 05:57 PM

Smoking is pretty foul... but snuff and chaw are twice as filthy!

Blech!

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 06:30 PM

According to that site I linked to, snuff and snuff-taking is rather different in the USA:

Professor Brad Radu of the University of Alabama has told me that "there is a lot of confusion about the term snuff between the Americans and the British. In the U.S. snuff almost always refers to moist snuff, which is more coarsely ground, such that a pinch can be transferred from the container to the mouth, to be held between the cheek and gum. Snuff products are all alkaline in pH, which facilitates transfer of nicotine directly across the lining of the mouth. A minority of users prefer moist snuff pre-packaged in pre-portioned pouches, which are milder and negate the problem of loose tobacco floating throughout the mouth.   Dry or powdered snuff is available ... [but] inhalation is practically non-existent. Instead, the dry snuff is placed in the mouth with a moistened stick or finger.

I quite see Clinton's point, if that's really true. I remember a few years ago someone tried to introduce that type of mouth snuff in the UK, and there was quite a health fuss about it, and the idea got dropped.    Real snuff, on the other hand, is a lot less messy, and a more civilised affair.

However, either way doesn't involve anything equivalent to passive smoking. Even if yo don't like the sight of someone sniffing powdered tobacco up their nose, or putting it in their mouths, they aren't pushing it up your nose, or stuffing it in your mouth.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 06:37 PM

As far I I've always known...

Snuff is the dry stuff you 'snort'... though why I can't imagine...

"Chaw" is the really disgusting wet stuff you put between yer cheek and gum, and then spit all over the place... Makes your mouth look like a drippy anus...

I'd rather smoke dog-ends off the mens room floor than snuff or chaw...

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 04:16 PM

Well, if that's what you'd rather have, Clinton, I'm sure you'll have the pick of the floor to yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Cluin
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 05:28 PM

"Hey, with that cigar in your mouth, you look just like a movie star!"

"Yeah? Which one?"

"Lassie, taking a shit."

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From:
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 04:05 PM

How 's this for a smoking ban story (true)I live in Southern Ireland.
I thought that I'd drop in for a pint at my local village pub one cold rainy night recently. As I approached I saw four men and a woman , outside ,on the footpath having a smoke and a drink. The Bartender was among the gathered smokers.
On entering I found the interior, two bar-rooms ,completely unoccupied.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 04:11 PM

It used to be common enough for pubs in Ireland to have a way of straying into the publican's living room for after hours drinking. I imagine the same will happen with smoking in some places.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Cluin
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 05:34 PM

It'll be like the Seinfeld episode where Kramer turned his apartment into a cigar lounge.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 10:20 AM

Now if we could just that other major polluter, the car, out of our downtowns, we might all breathe easier.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 12:32 PM

The car isn't HALF as bad as industry... not by a LONG shot...

Yer as likely to ever get rid of one as the other...

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 01:02 PM

They have got rid of most of the manufacturing industry in the UK and the USA. Just exported it, of course, so the global polutin is as bad as it was.

Venice is the model for how a city can manage perfectly well without cars. Maybe, what with the global warming and the rising sea level, we'll see a lot more cities getting flooded, and turned into far better places to live in the process.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 11:32 PM

That's for darn tootin'...it's about fucking, rucking time that we kick these smoker's asses outside and as far away from the doors in all.

Subject: RE: BS: Smoking ban in Ontario
From: GUEST,lurker
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 09:03 AM

Next up ... how about kicking a few of these foul-mouthed mini-minds outside and as far away from this forum as possible?