BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: bobad
Date: 26 Oct 16 - 07:52 PM

To quote from this year's Nobel laureate in Literature:

"You don't need a weatherman
To know which way the wind blows"

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: bobad
Date: 26 Oct 16 - 10:37 PM

The left's obsession with Israel has rehabilitated anti-Semitism.

"Although right-wing anti-Semitism has not gone away, today it co-exists all too comfortably with left-wing anti-Semitism. Writing in Dreams Deferred, David Hirsh argues: 'The most threatening anti-Semitism comes from those who believe they are opponents of all racism. Today's anti-Semitism thinks Israel is a key evil on the planet and Israelis need to be excluded from the global community. It thinks Israel murders Palestinian children out of evil and that Israel is a false nation, founded to steal and occupy other people's land. Today's anti-Semitism thinks Israel is powerful and controls opinion and governments around the world."

Singling out Israel, singling out Jews

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Oct 16 - 07:59 AM

From that link.

But it also needs placing within a political climate where the condemnation of Israel, which goes way beyond the condemnation levelled at any other country, has become routine and legitimate, at least in part due to the popularity of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement.

A lie. In the past, when the context has arisen, and just speaking for myself, I've condemned regimes in apartheid South Africa, Rhodesia then Zimbabwe, Uganda, Egypt, Chile, Spain, Portugal, Argentina, Saudi Arabia, Iran, USSR then Russia, Syria, the Balkans and God knows how many others. And don't get me started on Blair, Bush, Reagan and his contras and the US's sorry record on foreign policy in general. This claim that we criticise only Israel when lots of others are "just as bad" is childish and completely untrue. If this is thread is about antisemitism, a subject we disagree about, it is inevitable that we are going to mention Israel quite a lot, not least because of the attempts at conflation of criticism of the Israeli regime with real antisemitism. I'm not going to keep mentioning all those other rogue regimes every time I criticise Israeli regime policy just to level things up. In fact, if you try to insist that I do that, you are playing a part in promoting that conflation, which does nothing at all for the security that all Jewish people deserve. You are doing harm.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: bobad
Date: 27 Oct 16 - 10:37 AM

This from a friend of a friend:

"Last night, in an event hosted by seething jew-hater Baroness Tonge in the House of Lords, it was suggested Hitler only perpetrated his genocide of Jews after he was provoked by anti-German protests led by a rabbi in Manhattan. It was added that "Judea declared war on Germany." Israel was called a "perversion of judaism" and likened to Islamic State, asserted that a "Zionist movement" controlled UK politics and finance, whilst it was suggested Jews brought the holocaust on themselves.

I now look at the state of the United Kingdom's politics with despair and wonder if this is the country I want to remain in. Sadly, I can't make Aliyah."

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Oct 16 - 11:58 AM

Source?

And if your "friend" leaves, please go with him, Bubio, and the sooner the better.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Oct 16 - 12:05 PM

"Friend of a friend my arse." What a ridiculous post. Laughable.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Oct 16 - 12:07 PM

Speech marks awry.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: bobad
Date: 27 Oct 16 - 01:26 PM

Baroness Tonge has left the Liberal Democrats following the party's decision to suspend her.

Gavin Stollar from Liberal Democrats Friends of Israel said: "Finally Baroness Tonge has reaped what she has sown. She is an anti-Israel zealot who can now espouse her offensive views outside our party."

She should apply to join the Labour party. She'd be welcomed with open arms.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Oct 16 - 02:18 PM

"She should apply to join the Labour party. She'd be welcomed with open arms."

Ha. Copied verbatim from a Dan Hodges tweet. We always knew you didn't have a mind of your own. 😂

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Oct 16 - 02:30 PM

Well plenty of antisemitism rumbles in the LibDems in recent months. I suppose they are less controversial because they're too little.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Oct 16 - 10:18 AM

Well plenty of antisemitism rumbles in the LibDems in recent months

How many suspensions Steve?
And, do you acknowledge Tonge's anti semitism ?

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Oct 16 - 12:07 PM

I don't give a damn about the LibDems. For what it's worth, I didn't see evidence that that detestable woman has said anything antisemitic, but I really can't be arsed to discuss it with you.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Oct 16 - 05:28 AM

I didn't see evidence that that detestable woman has said anything antisemitic,

Once again, you show that you define anti Semitism differently to everyone else, except for obvious anti Semites like Tonge.

Jim has disappeared rather than answer difficult questions, but you continue to just ignore them.
You asserted, as if it was a fact, the "the Israel lobby" manipulates governments and has a "cast iron grip" on the US government.

Once again, how does a mere lobby group do that? What hold does it have? What leverage?

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Oct 16 - 06:50 AM

That is a disgraceful post and does not deserve discussion. And how dare you accuse anyone of "disappearing" in order to avoid your questions. Unless you're privy to Jim's private affairs you need to keep your mouth shut. We don't comment in that adverse manner when you or Teribus "disappear" for days on end, do we?

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Oct 16 - 01:12 PM

You are still here Steve.
Why no answer to a reasonable question?

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Oct 16 - 03:10 PM

"Jim has disappeared rather than answer difficult questions"
Jim disappeared to see half a dozen good films in Dublin
"I think you should tell us why you post videos intended to demonize ordinary Jews,"
I don't - I point out what the murderous fascists who claim t represent the Jewish people say.
You blame the Jews for celebrating the burning to death of a child - how about explaining that one.
The pair of you have supported wartime British antisemitism as "harmless" - any explanation of that?
"Jim, I think you should tell us why you post videos intended to demonize ordinary Jews,"
I post videos which show the behaviour of extremists - not "ordinary Jews
It is antisemitic in the extreme to describe the celebration of the burning alive of a child as the behaviour of "Ordinary Jews"
You - not me describe these people as "Ordinary Jews" - behaviour such as that is inhuman - not "ordinary"
WHY DO YOU DESCRIBE IT AS THE BEHAVIOUR OF "ORDINARY JEWS - DO YOU REALLY HAVE SUCH A LOW OPINION OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE?
Donuel
Your unsubstantiated accusations of antisemitism are what they are unsubstantiateed and untrue - the offer I made to your friends is extended to you - I expct that it will be met with the same cowardly silence that it has from them
One thing this thread ahs attracted is a bunch of cowardly trolls with their hit-and-run accusations.
As Billy Connollly once nearly said - if you want to confue a troll- ask it a question.
The only antisemites here are those who accuse "ordinary Jews" of Israli crimes   
A couple of simple question Don - Keith has claimed that the Jews in the Labour Party of refusing to describe the antisemitism they claim has been happening in the Labour Party in defence of the party
1   Do you believe that to be true?
2   If it is not true, do you believe it to be antisemitic to have made such an accusation against a group of Jewish Politicians.
Won't hold my breath on this one any more than I did the last time I asked it.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: bobad
Date: 29 Oct 16 - 07:17 PM

Typical fascistic behaviour of the anti-Semitic regressive left as they shout down free speech at the University College of London, much like their ilk here do: YouTube

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Teribus
Date: 30 Oct 16 - 01:10 AM

Ah but bobad, you forget that free speech as far as the hard-left goes is something that is reserved solely for them or anyone stating and supporting causes they espouse. With respect to any other point of view or opinion there is no such thing as free speech - as your link shows.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Oct 16 - 03:58 AM

"Ah but bobad, you forget that free speech as far as the hard-left"
As you come from the extremist right and are prepared to defend every excess that that implies - including wartime British antisemitism in Britain - that comes a little rich from you.
The views you express are fascist by definition - that particular philosophy doesn't have a great track record on "free speech"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Oct 16 - 04:19 AM

"free speech at the University College of London"
"Hen Mazzig"
Mazig is a former IDF member and a gofer for COGAT - a group co-coordinating activities between the Israeli Armed Forces, The Israeli Security Forces, The Government and the illegal settlers in the occupied territories.
He is a representative of a regime that has has yet to stand trial for the war crimes it has been seen to commit - his appearance at a British place of education can hardly be described as an example of "free speech".
I remember with a degree off pride witnessing similar demonstrations aimed at Apartheid South African representatives and those from the fascist Greek junta.
Long may people be allowed to express their disgust at such regimes - use that right or lose it, as far as I'm concerned.   
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Oct 16 - 04:47 AM

Nonsense Teribus. Why, just yesterday a friend of mine in Bude was telling me that she had eggs thrown at her car because she had a poster in the car window supporting the housing of refugee families in the town. Doubt whether it was a bunch of lefties somehow.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Oct 16 - 05:47 AM

Jim,
"I think you should tell us why you post videos intended to demonize ordinary Jews,"
I don't

But you did Jim.

- I point out what the murderous fascists who claim t represent the Jewish people say.

You have quoted a couple of ministers, but the videos were of ordinary Jews.


You blame the Jews for celebrating the burning to death of a child - how about explaining that one.

You posted a video of ordinary Jews supposedly doing exactly that Jim. Why?
In fact the video was of a Jewish wedding party where one person only was purported to be behaving badly with a photo of a child, but it was impossible to see what the photo was really of or what was really being done to it.

I post videos which show the behaviour of extremists - not "ordinary Jews

Yes, and you said you did it to show what is happening in Israel as if such behaviour was typical. That is a slander against Jews.

It is antisemitic in the extreme to describe the celebration of the burning alive of a child as the behaviour of "Ordinary Jews"

Yes it is Jim, and YOU appear to be guilty of it. That is why I asked you to explain, and you still need to.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Teribus
Date: 30 Oct 16 - 06:16 AM

"He is a representative of a regime that has has yet to stand trial for the war crimes it has been seen to commit"

A regime that has not been indicted of any offence so there is no question of them standing trial now or at any time in the future.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Oct 16 - 06:23 AM

"But you did Jim."
No I didn't Keith - I put them up as examples of Israeli extremism - it too k an antisemite to describe them as actions of "ordinary Jews"
"You have quoted a couple of ministers, but the videos were of ordinary Jews."
I put up quotes of ovr 50 of them - your response was
"Jim, I restrict myself to linking to media organs that normal people have heard of.
Why don't you?"
You never produced a single fact that any were false or inaccurate - not even your usual "bollocks" or "made-up shit"
I ask again - are they genuine - do you have any evidence to show they are not?
If they are - what possible objection can you have for them being put up?
"You posted a video of ordinary Jews supposedly doing exactly that Jim. Why?"
Ordinary Jews do not behave like savage animals in my experiance.
Hod#w dar you continue to denigrate the Jewish People in this manner?
These are extremists who have been incited to behave as they do by their political and religious leaders - I do not present them as 'typical' buut of what is happening today in fascist Israel.
The same happened in pre-war Germany when the people were incited to turn on the Jews - we all know the results of that
TOU ARE THE ONLY PERON (SIC) TO DESCRIBE THIS AS THE ACTION OF "ORDINARY JEWS"
Please stop smearing me with your shit.
I ask again - are those videos eal or not - if they are, why should you cencor them

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Oct 16 - 07:37 AM

"A regime that has not been indicted of any offence "
The US has prevented action from being taken with over thirty vetoes
There is plenty of evidence that they are guilty of what they are accused of and Britain, POODLE-LIKE, is quite happy to lend a hand
You are quite happy to indict The Labour Party of the basis on no evidence whatever (accusations are not evidence, BTW.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Oct 16 - 08:49 AM

This page has departed from discussion to invective throwing long ago

That the powers that be, allow this thread to be hung like a Swastika high atop the page, is despicable and shows the true colors of all the moderators here.

I now have to seriously suspect the entire website.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Oct 16 - 09:28 AM

"This page has departed from discussion to invective throwing long ago"
Then why do you choose to indulge in it yourself with your accusations of "amtisemitism" - or have you granted yourself a special dispensation?
I assume you are not going to take up my offer - it stays open to all of you who throw your accusations around like confetti - your silence speaks volumes
Feel free to answer whenever you feel inclined
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Oct 16 - 09:51 AM

"Yes - all criticism of Israel is Antisemitic" Netunyahu)
ONE ISRAELI VIEW
ANOTHER
AND ANOTHER
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Oct 16 - 02:41 PM

Jim,
No I didn't Keith - I put them up as examples of Israeli extremism

But you said, "They show what is happening in Israel today Keith - why do you think I put them up?"

That is not what is happening in Israel today!
Such despicable behaviour, if it is happening at all, is confined to a tiny minority of sickos as you find in any population.

To suggest otherwise is a wicked slur on ordinary decent Israeli Jews.

I do not present them as 'typical' buut of what is happening today in fascist Israel

It is not typical of what is happening in Israel, and it is an anti-Semitic slur to claim that it is.

You never produced a single fact that any were false or inaccurate

If they were true they would have been reported in the normal media, and not just the anti-Israel sites you trawl in search of propaganda.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Oct 16 - 02:48 PM

TOU ARE THE ONLY PERON (SIC) TO DESCRIBE THIS AS THE ACTION OF "ORDINARY JEWS"

No. I am the person denying that it is.
You posted videos, not of government officials, but of ordinary Israeli Jews which you claim shows sick behaviour and you tell us "They show what is happening in Israel today"

That is not what is happening in Israel today, and it is a slander on ordinary, decent Jews in Israel to claim it.

If it happens at all, and your videos are not at all convincing, it is confined to a tiny minority of sickos such as you find in any population.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Oct 16 - 03:04 PM

"Yes - all criticism of Israel is Antisemitic" Netunyahu)

Faked quote Jim. He never said it.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Oct 16 - 04:23 PM

Say good-night, Professor.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Oct 16 - 04:32 AM

"That is not what is happening in Israel today!"
Then the videos were filmed where - on the moon?
"To suggest otherwise is a wicked slur on ordinary decent Israeli Jews."
No it isn't - it is an account of what The Israeli dream is being turned into by a right wigng regime.
You specifically blamed the "ordinary Jewish people" and equally specifically absolved the leadership - that is true antisemitism.
You have never supported the Jewish people - you described virulent wartime antisemitism as harmless because it was British - your concern was for the British establishment, not the millions of Jews that were herded into the gas chambers.
You blamed the Jewish politicians for suppressing the facts in so-called Labour antisemitism out of loyalty to the Party - your concern was denigrating the Labour Government, not the Jewish People.
Now you blame the "ordinary Jewish People" for the demonstrations of hate that have ben incited by generations of establishment and religious inspired hatred - yos carefully absolved the regime from all blame - pointing the finger at "ordinary Jewish People" - your concern is for the fascist state, not The Jewish People.
You refuse to comment on the fifty-odd quotes other than to say they should not have been put up.
And once again, you defend the statement of an extreme right wing leader.
You behaviour makes you an extremist right wing antisemite using The Jewish People as an excuse to absolve a very nasty regime
MORE FACTS to IGNORE or DENY
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Oct 16 - 07:04 AM

Jim,
You specifically blamed the "ordinary Jewish people"

No. I specifically defended them.

For years you have said that you have no issue with ordinary Israelis, just the government.
You have now revealed your true feelings by posting videos that you claim show ordinary Israelis behaving despicably, and telling us that is how Israel is.
It is not.
If any ordinary Israelis really do behave as you claim, they are a tiny minority of sickos such as you get in any population.

Your slander against ordinary Israeli Jews is based only on your prejudice Jim.

And once again, you defend the statement of an extreme right wing leader.

And once again you try to smear me with a lie.
I have not defended any statement of any leader.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Oct 16 - 08:05 AM

"No. I specifically defended them."
You lie again Keith
"23 Oct 16 - 04:16 PM
Those videos you linked to did only show ordinary Jews, not government officials."
Are not these not your exact, unedited words - how unequivocal can you get than ORDINARY JEWS - NOT STATE OFFICIALS?
It is imbecilic to deny things you have actually written on the same thread
You are lying to defend you own antisemitic statements
Here they are again
1   You specifically blamed the "ordinary Jewish people" and equally specifically absolved the leadership - that is true antisemitism.
2   You described virulent wartime antisemitism as harmless because it was British - your concern was for the British establishment, not the millions of Jews that were herded into the gas chambers.
3   You blamed the Jewish politicians for suppressing the facts in so-called Labour antisemitism out of loyalty to the Party - your concern was denigrating the Labour Government, not the Jewish People.
Now you blame the "ordinary Jewish People" for the demonstrations of hate that have been incited by generations of establishment and religious inspired hatred - you carefully absolved the regime from all blame - pointing the finger at "ordinary Jewish People" - your concern is for the fascist state, not The Jewish People.
I have never accused the Jewish people of anything - not ever - prove I have.
Your sick argument here is typical of what is happening in Israel - war criminals blaming their crimes on The Jews.
The term "Self Hating Jews", used by the Israeli regime against Jews who condemn their policies, is one coined to describe Jews who expressed antisemitic views has now been despicably twisted to defend extremist behaviour - The Regime going to war against large sections of the Jewish People
You and your handful of supporters here have chosen your side in that particular fight - The Israeli regime versus dissident Jews.   
"I have not defended any statement of any leader."
Another feeble minded lie.
You denied that a minister called for the beheading of the Arabs, and then you went on to defend it, saying he didn't mean it.
You denied the Minister of Justice's statement calling for war against all Palestinians
Now you are denying writing "Faked quote Jim. He never said it."
Your crude denials of what is put in front of you is totally mindless
And still you refuse to respond to the fifty odd examples of incitement to hatred by Israeli leaders.
Another set of facts to ignore
"A Good Jew Hates Arabs
Hatred of Arabs is part of the test of loyalty and identity that the state gives its Jewish citizens - a loyal Israeli will leave an Arab to die, because 'he's an Arab.'
The young criminals who mercilessly beat Jamal Julani and his cousins simply because they're Arabs don't live in settlements, haven't occupied any cities and haven't taken control of any terraced hills in the territories. Perhaps they participated in one of those tours the Education Ministry has been sponsoring in Hebron to deepen kids' familiarity with their Jewish heritage and heard something there about an occupation.
The haste with which some are tying the violence perpetrated in Jerusalem last week to the corrupting influence of the occupation is superfluous. The horrifying quote from one of the teenage suspects, that Julani, nearly beaten to death, "could die for all I care - he's an Arab," is not a result of the occupation. It's an inseparable part of the culture, which may have been fashioned somewhat by the occupation. But to hate Arabs and to want them dead; to stand aside, as dozens of passersby did in this case without intervening; to arrest a sick Palestinian, as one policeman has done, and leave him to die - that's already a worldview.
It's not necessary to read the disgusting book "The King's Torah," in which rabbis Yitzhak Shapira and Yosef Elitzur - from the Od Yosef Chai Yeshiva in Yitzhar - write that "the ban on killing a gentile does not stem from the intrinsic value of his life, which is not essentially legitimate as such." These are the rabbis of the occupation, the arbiters of Jewish law for those hooligans on the hilltops. They belong to a different country, one in which the laws of the State of Israel are deemed worthless.
It would be better to examine the shocking words of Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu, the rabbi of Safed, an Israeli city, who is subordinate by law to the Israeli education system. Eliyahu has determined that "Arabs live by different codes, by violent norms that have become an ideology. Like agricultural thefts are an ideology. Like extorting protection money from farmers in the Negev is an ideology."
And what does the Arab want? Not just to steal pipes or flocks of sheep from Jewish farmers. The Arab, as we know, always has his eyes on the daughters of Israel.
Talila Nesher, the education reporter for Haaretz, revealed in June a civics review book that helps pupils "understand" who this Arab is. The book reprints a letter issued by several rabbis' wives that urges Jewish girls to keep away from Arabs. In the sample matriculation test included in the book, the pupils are asked to give their opinion about the letter, and, as might be expected of a book that preps teens for the matriculation exam, it also supplies correct answers.
In this case, the answer reads as follows: "The association of Jewish girls with Arabs is liable to lead to relationships and even marriage. This assimilation of Jewish girls with members of the Arab minority will harm the preservation of the Jewish majority in the State of Israel." An additional argument is: "When Jewish girls associate with Arabs, it may put them at risk for nationalist reasons, and their right to life and security is liable to be undermined."
While this particular book is not under the supervision of the Education Ministry, thousands of copies have been sold as study aids for the matriculation exam.
Israeli "literature" promoting hate of Arabs predates the occupation. The children's book series "Danidin" by Shraga Gafni is full of expressions and illustrations that laid excellent infrastructure for Arab-hatred. The "Mikraot Yisrael" (Israeli Readers ) series, which helped educate hundreds of thousands of Israeli children, is striking in terms of the "incitement" concealed within it.
Similar books published in the Palestinian Authority keep those who monitor Palestinian incitement very busy. But there isn't really a need to list all the recipes for Arab-hatred that have been fed to us, and which we developed on our own, in order to come up with a defense for those criminals in Jerusalem, whose "only crime" was to do what Israeli pedagogy and the "Death-to-Arabs" ethos directed them to do.
This is an ethos that will continue to be an integral part of the Israeli-Jewish national identity, even if the occupation were to end tomorrow. Because "Death to the Arabs" isn't an expression of "routine" hatred of those who are different, or the loathsome slogan of some "price tag" gang. It does not resemble the xenophobia or the fear of Muslims that characterizes European racism.
Hatred of Arabs is part of the test of loyalty and identity that the state gives its Jewish citizens. A good Jew hates Arabs. A loyal Israeli will leave an Arab to die, because "he's an Arab." And someone who isn't like that, as we know, "sleeps with Arabs."
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/a-good-jew-hates-arabs-1.459832

Zvi Bar'el is the Middle Eastern affairs analyst for Haaretz Newspaper. He is a columnist and a member of the editorial board. Previously he has been the managing editor of the newspaper, the correspondent in Washington and has also covered the Occupied Territories.
Bar'el has been with Haaretz since 1982, and has written extensively on the Arab and Islamic world. In 2009, he was awarded the Sokolov prize for lifetime achievement in print journalism.
Bar'el has a Ph.D in the History of the Middle East. He teaches at Sapir Academic College and is a research fellow at the Truman Institute at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, as well as at the Center for Iranian Studies.
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/a-good-jew-hates-arabs-1.459832"
Does Haaretz com under your "media organs that normal people have heard of".
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: bobad
Date: 31 Oct 16 - 11:08 AM

Antisemitic thugs break up a peaceful meeting of Jews at the University College in London (10-27-2016). Instead of the police removing the criminals, they remove the Jews. Then they parade the Jews in front of the thugs. The Jews are humiliated, insulted, and harassed, like the Nazis humiliated, insulted and harassed the Jews in the 40's

Video

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Oct 16 - 12:15 PM

Those videos you linked to did only show ordinary Jews, not government officials."

They did Jim. I was truthful and accurate.
They were just wedding guests and revellers on a national day.
You used to claim that you had no issues with ordinary Jews, just the Israeli government.

You let your mask slip and posted videos attacking ordinary Jews.
Why?
You said they showed what it is like in Israel.

That is a lie against ordinary, decent Jews in Israel.
Your videos do not show what you claim they do.
If any Jews are guilty of such vile behaviour as you claim, it would just be a tiny minority of sickos that you get in any population.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Oct 16 - 03:15 PM

"They did Jim. I was truthful and accurate."
So it was truthful and accurate that "ordinary Jews" celebrated the death of burned to death children and the politicians bore no blame - do I have thay right?
It was ordinary Jews who marched through the streets of Tel Aviv demanding the annihilation of all Palestinians and the politicians bore no blame - is that right?
That's exactly what you said.
"and the politicians bore no blame"No. It only shows groups of Jews, not government officials."
So - if the politicians had nothing to do with all this - then it must be how you regard the behaviour of "ordinary Jews" - is that right?
When will you ever learn - every time you put finger to keyboard you dig yourself further in the shit-hole you have created for yourself
First, your defence of "harmless" antisemitism by British fascists at a time when German Jews were being primed for Auschwitz.
Then your Jewish pact of silence in Parliament to protect the Party.
Then your refusing to accept that the hate speech of Israeli leaders has bought about these demonstrations of obscene hatred and it is all the fault of "ORDINARY JEWS
I don't blame the ordinary Jewish people - you do.
I don't absolve the leaders for inciting these crimes against human beings - you do - just as you have excused every single crime these monsters have been guilty of.
My target has always been the Israeli regime - yours has always been the Jewish people who oppose that regime
Your description of the Jewish People is as obscenely racist as is your view of the "Implanted Muslims".
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Nov 16 - 07:38 AM

So it was truthful and accurate that "ordinary Jews" celebrated the death of burned to death children and the politicians bore no blame - do I have thay right?

That is what YOU claimed and I denied.
YOU posted video links of ordinary Jews, not politicians, supposedly behaving like evil monsters though the videos did not actually show that.

YOU justified it as showing what happens in Israel, but it does not.
The great majority of Israeli Jews are ordinary, decent people and your posts were a vile slur on them.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Nov 16 - 11:37 AM

The violent vicious anti-Semitic posts that Joe and Max allow to grow is not their fault.

It is the fault of the anti-Semitic fathers of the Jew hating people who feel a need to spew their hate here and sustain the hate of their fathers.

Dear haters, Your father's mistake was wrong then as it is now.
Defend your father if you must but their mistakes are already written on stone memorials.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Nov 16 - 12:01 PM

"That is what YOU claimed and I denied."
You are lying openly now Keith - which is fine
I have duplicated your exact words and linked it to your postings

22 Oct 16 - 02:51 PM
Jim, what is the message of all your links?
Do they really show Jews doing what you claim? I doubt it.
If they do, what does it tell us about Jews?
Or is it supposed to tell us something about the Israeli government?
"No. It only shows groups of Jews, not government officials."
How can you continue publicly humiliating yourself like this Keith - haven't you flagellated yourself enough.
The people who demonstrated in the disgusting way they did were responding to many years of hate inciting statements by Israeli leaders.
You have supported those leaders and backed up their hate filled statements, first by denying them, then by ignoring them.
I have always blamed the leaders - you are now blaming The Jews.
Ask your cowardly troll friend Donuel, which viewpoint is antiemitic, though I doubt if he has the bottle to respond - cowardly trolls don't do that sort of thing
Please keep this up - it makes my point perfectly
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Nov 16 - 12:31 PM

Earlier examples of your antisemisim

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland-What happened?
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 12:57 PM
Jim Carroll
"When the news of the extermination of the Jews reached Britain one Tory Minister described it "the invention of whingeing Yids"."
Keith
"Who was it?
What is your source?
Silly songs don't count, or I could post "Who Do You Think You Are Kidding Mr Hitler" as proof to the contrary!"

One of the "silly songs" referred to.

Land of dope and Jewry
Land that once was free
All the Jew boys praise thee
Whilst they plunder thee
Poorer still and poorer
Grow thy true-born sons
Faster still and faster
They're sent to feed the guns.

Land of Jewish finance
Fooled by Jewish lies
In press and books and movies
While our birthright dies
Longer still and longer
Is the rope they get
But—by the God of battles
'Twill serve to hang them yet.

Another
"Onward, conscript army…you have naught to fear.
Isaac Hore-Belisha …will lead you from the rear.
Clad by Monty Burton [Jewish clothes- and uniform maker],… fed on Lyons' pies [Jewish restaurant and tea shop chain];
Fight for Yiddish conquests …while the Briton dies.
Onward, conscript army, marching on to war.
Fight and die for Jewry… as we did before.
.
You must die for Poland…pay your debt of thanks
All your benefactors…international banks.
So place against the Germans…beneath the Jewish star
Onward toward the shambles…Goy cattle that you are!
"Poor, persecuted Jewry"…will finance war again.
Forward for the slaughter… for the Hebrews' gain.

Driven toward the shambles…like a flock of sheep
By lying propaganda…by their plans laid deep.
So for Israel Moses Sieff…you must fight and die
That Marks & Spencer's [department store] neon sign…May still light up our sky.
Forward, on to Poland…10 million men shall fall,
That Judah's reign of terror…May hold us all in thrall."

What was happening when these "HARMLESS POEMS" were being written

Any comment on this Donuel? - no? - thought not!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Nov 16 - 12:43 PM

"Which side are you on, tell me which side are you on" olde union song

Once upon a time people entertained the fallacy of neutral actors/fence sitters.

In the internet age that fallacy has died.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Nov 16 - 01:16 PM

Jim, you quote me in big red letters. The quote is accurate and I stand by it.

"It (YOUR LINKED VIDEO) only shows groups of Jews, not government officials."

Your attack was on ordinary Jews, not politicians.
You said you did it to show what is going on in Israel.
It is a wicked lie to claim that is how it is in Israel, as if such behaviour is common.
It s far from clear that even your videos depict any such behaviour.

You are guilty of attempting to demonize ordinary Jews in Israel.
I am defending them.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Nov 16 - 01:36 PM

"Jim, you quote me in big red letters. The quote is accurate and I stand by it."
So you believe the Jews are guilty and the hate mongers are innocent]
Good enough for me Keith.
"Your attack was on ordinary Jews, not politicians."
You've just confirmed that that is your stance - not mine.
Mac appears to have hasd his question asnswered
"What does 'anti-semitism' mean?"
This is what it means Mac - blaming the Jews for the crimes Israel is committing
Couldn't get a cleared confession than this.
Didn't expect an answer Donuel - I believe Sefridges do a good line in spines nowadays - why not try one?
You've allowed this "ordinary Jew-hating" turd to smear you with his antisemitic garbage - never mind, you are third in line.
Till the next time Keith - now where did I put your C.V.?
Over and out.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Nov 16 - 01:51 PM

So you believe the Jews are guilty and the hate mongers are innocent]

No Jim.
I believe there may be a tiny minority of sickos as in any population, but your videos that you claim show sick behaviour do not, and the great majority of Jews are good and decent people.
It is a wicked slur to suggest otherwise, AS YOU DID JIM!


On another subject, I now have a copy of Israel's Secret Wars by Ian Black and Benny Morris.
The anti-Israel sites you trawl for propaganda lied.
There is no mention of the disposal of bodies after the massacre, and no claim that Israelis assisted in it.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 08:13 AM

Re. definiion of anti semitism, UK Police College endorses the EUMC definition.
Steve and others who claimed that definition to be defunct, take note.
http://www.college.police.uk/What-we-do/Support/Equality/Documents/Hate-Crime-Operational-Guidance.pdf#search=antisemitism

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: bobad
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 08:34 AM

In view of the deplorable rise in the number of anti-Semitic hate incidents in the UK it is encouraging that the Police College has adopted the EUMC definition.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 09:49 AM

Well, Keith, the College of Policing (not "the Police College" as you both incorrectly call it) has neither "endorsed" nor "adopted" the EUMC document. The College's document that you linked to reproduces it and discusses elements of it, but says, perfectly explicitly, that it does NOT replace their definition of hate crime. Nowhere will you see a declaration that it has either been endorsed or adopted. Once again, you try to slip this kind of thing by us, assuming that we must be fools. Well we're not fools, But you two are the most dishonest people it's ever been my misfortune to encounter on any discussion forum. You do it by serial lying and bobad does it both by lying and pretending to be two different people. Nice.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 11:15 AM

Not worth making the point to these people Steve, but the rise in antisemitism has in Britain has been put down largely to the swing to the right in Britain brought about by Brexit
Hatred of Jews has always featured largely among hate crimes and those crimes have always been firmly in the domain of the political right - it was right-wing German Industrial capitalism that herded six million Jews into the gas chambers.
No doubt, the tactic adopted by the Israeli Regime of using The Jewish People as human shields to protect itself from persecution for war crimes hasn't helped.
It's interesting to not that 2 to 1 British Jews voted against leaving Europe - obviously the ones who leared from their own history.
Jim Carroll