BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team

Subject: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: Howard Jones
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 09:10 AM

Mike Tindall has been fined £25000 by the RFO and kicked off the England rugby team, for doing what rugby players do - going out and having a few beers, and making an arse of himself.

Now his behaviour was certainly inappropriate and he undoubtedly deserves to be disciplined, but this seems to be a bit over the top, especially when compared with the punishments given to two other players who made inappropriate remarks to a female member of the hotel staff (arguably a more serious offence), who were given suspended fines of £5000 each.

Of course, as a senior member of the squad he should have set a better example. It was probably unwise to snog a blonde under the CCTV cameras, just weeks after his wedding to a member of the Royal Family, but that's surely between him and his wife. The attention and furore all this caused was probably a distraction, but England's failure to progress in the World Cup can hardly be blamed on this.

Simon Barnes in today's Times nominates Tindall for "Arsehole of the Year" and it's probably well-deserved, but drinking too much and being an arsehole is part of the job-description for rugger-buggers.

Whilst his behaviour was clearly unacceptable, and he let his team, his country and his wife down, I can't help feeling his punishment is out of proportion and that he is being scapegoated for England's failure in the tournament.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 09:46 AM

It was probably unwise to snog a blonde under the CCTV cameras, just weeks after his wedding to a member of the Royal Family,

So that's what he did. I didn't see reference to it in the BBC articles I read.

I can't help feeling his punishment is out of proportion and that he is being scapegoated for England's failure in the tournament.

Seems that way to me too.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 09:48 AM

...unless there are special penalties because of the Royal Family connection.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: Howard Jones
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 10:33 AM

To be fair, I don't think the cameras caught any evidence of an actual snog, but he was certainly getting cosier with her than a newly-married man should - especially when the wife is going to see it on the evening news!

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 11:23 AM

"...drinking too much and being an arsehole is part of the job-description for rugger-buggers."

And isn't that a sad commentary on a commercial 'sport'?

Perhaps is just that arsehole drunks need a 'sport' like Rugby to reflect their character.

...and perhaps *I* am just tired of ANY sports figures assuming that they will get a pass on any extreme behavior because they are famous and overpaid.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 12:08 PM

Surely not another freeloader to be kept in the manner he is acustomed too by the taxpayers of this country.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: Howard Jones
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 12:33 PM

Bill D, drinking and horseplay were part of the culture associated with rugby long before it became a professional, ocmmercialised sport. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but it's the reality of the game.

From what I've read, I don't think his behaviour was "extreme", especially compared with the excesses of some soccer stars. He and some team-mates went out and had a few drinks - admittedly in a bar with dwarf-wrestling, but according to reports "no dwarves were thrown". If he wasn't married to the Princess Royal's daughter, and hadn't been caught dallying with a blonde, and not long after his wedding at that, the news would have been confined to some mild criticism on the sports pages, and he'd have got away with a bollocking from the team management. If England had been playing better, it would probably all have been ignored. It's only because of his royal connection that the story achieved the prominence it did - and yes, of course he should have known better.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 12:37 PM

As I understand it, any public area in a substantial UK city is considered public and likely to have cameras. You could make the point that the fine leveled was to discourage flamboyant stupidity.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: Howard Jones
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 12:39 PM

Guest, I'm not sure what you mean. Zara Phillips gets nothing from the Civil List. As for other sources of taxpayers' money, even if his rugby career comes to an end I somehow doubt he'll end up on the dole.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 12:57 PM

Jack, the event took place in New Zealand. Still, he should have known better, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 01:12 PM

I hear you. As you say Pretty stupid to assume no closed circuit tvs in New Zealand. As far as being kicked off the team, am I right in assuming that this it is just this year's England national team that he is off? He can try out again before the next World Cup and still play in what ever professional leagues there are?

He could still be a spokes person for cheap beer and for divorce lawyers?

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 01:24 PM

Although the punishment itself doesn't order this, I think this will be the end of his international career.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 01:45 PM

In my view, unless a sportsperson's behaviour off the pitch is criminal, it shouldn't be brought to bear on their professional life. The issue is whether that person plays well and is up to the standard of an international sport. If so (and I have no idea whether Mike Tyndall still plays well enough to continue in the squad) no-one has the right to either fine them or sack them. It's different with, say, a teacher, who has moral obligations to the pupils, and whose private life is to a great extent open to scrutiny. It would seem they need to be saintly as well as good rugby players. Rather a tall order!

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 01:47 PM

But isn't that because he is 33 and they play the World Cup at 4 year intervals? I don't follow rugby closely. But I imagine, based on equally demanding sports that 33 is probably past prime age and at 37 one would be considered old.

I just don't see this as a big deal.

If you compare it to the current Penn State scandal in US college football, or to deaths and injuries in other sports from auto racing, horse racing, boxing and football it seems very trivial.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 02:00 PM

I would want people representing my country to be on their best behavior when doing so. If only to keep my country from getting the reputation of condoning reckless behavior.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: Brian May
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 02:01 PM

Act like a dickhead then take the consequences.

Shame footballers don't suffer the same treatment.

If representing your country still matters - then act appropriately.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: Howard Jones
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 02:18 PM

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending his behaviour - it was unprofessional to say the least. However the punishment seems to be disproportionate and a reaction to the press's interest, which in turn was due to his family connections, rather than anything to do with rugby.

All he did was go out and have a few drinks. So far as I am aware he did nothing particularly untoward, apart from the matter with the blonde which in my opinion is for him to explain to his wife, not the RFU. However this did attract an undue amount of press attention. Contrast that with the other two players who made inappropriate remarks to a female hotel worker (for which, in fairness they immediately apologised and said no offence was intended). That seems to me to far less acceptable behaviour, for which they were fined only £5000, suspended, compared with Tindall's fine of £25k and the loss of his place.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 03:47 PM

I just don't see this as a big deal.

But I think that's the point, Jack. While I'm not going to suggest his behaviour was appropriate, I don't consider it a sort of hanging offence.

Perhaps, as captain/senior member one might expect him to be dealt with a little more harshly but the punishment still strikes me as being disproportionate.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 04:02 PM

Clearly it is not a hanging offense. Worst case, he walks away with 25,000 kicked off the team which was eliminated from the tournament.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 04:25 PM

I'm outraged! In this country this type of behavior is the perogative of politicians.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 07:32 PM

Rugger player has beer in pub. Like it's so shocking, how can such things happen disgrace to the country unprofessional blah blah blah fetch me a brown paper bag

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 12:21 AM

"just weeks after his wedding to a member of the Royal Family, but that's surely between him and his wife."

.,,.

... and his Granny-in-Law, perhaps?!

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 12:54 AM

Probably the back story to all this was the truly bad image that his behaviour - and that of his colleagues - produced for the English team at the RWC. They were a world-wide joke both on and off the pitch and it will take many years to repair the damage.

Tindall makes huge money out of rugby, so can well afford the fine, and hopefully it may encourage him to settle down and start learning how to be a proper rugby player, on and off the field.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 05:15 AM

I think the punishment was due to him lying at an inquiry. He denied going on to another night club. Only when confronted with the CCTV evidence did he admit his lie. The board rightly felt that his lies should not go unpunished. Stick to soccer - we beat the World Champs last night!

Arnie sans cookie

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 01:07 PM

"He denied going on to another night club." Well, you'd hardly expect him to remember on a night out like that.

This kind of thing may be unpleasant, but it's traditional behaviour for rugger buggers. If he didn't assault anyone, I can't see how it's relevant to anyone outside the family. If he did assault anyone, it's a matter for the law. Sportsmen should be only penalised by the sports authorities for what they do on the pitch.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 01:32 PM

Sportsmen should be only penalised by the sports authorities for what they do on the pitch.

I disagree there. I think it is reasonable to expect some level of conduct off the pitch while representing club or country and to have a disciplinary procedure to deal with breaches.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 02:24 PM

He is has the honor of representing his country and is being paid £50,000. In return for that a minimum standard of behavior should be expected.

The next generation of "ruggers" should be taught to behave themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 05:38 PM

I can't see how sportsmen "represent their country" in an overseas bar any more or less than anyone else.   They may be overpaid sometimes, but what they are overpaid for is their professional performance, not their social or antisocial behaviour.

The trouble do they do represent and reflect the way too many English people behave when abroad. That's where the real change is needed. Maybe if it happened the rugger crowd would catch on to the idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 05:49 PM

Well we differ there, McGrath. My view is that they are on "official duty" for their country from the start of the tour to the end.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: BTNG
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 06:05 PM

scapegoated because of England's loss....absolute rubbish!

"      "       "   he's married into The Royal Family...poppycock!

he got caught with his hands in the knickers of a woman who wasn't his wife, he was representing England ergo he got what he richly deserved, may, just maybe he'll think twie, next time, but you know what, he won't because I doubt he's capable of introspection.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 06:10 PM

Hello BTNG...

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: BTNG
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 06:43 PM

"I would want people representing my country to be on their best behavior when doing so. If only to keep my country from getting the reputation of condoning reckless behavior."

Exactly. You want to make an arse of yourself, fill your boots, go ahead. Just don't do it while representing your country and don't whine about it afterwards.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: Howard Jones
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 07:59 AM

The question is not whether he should have been disciplined or whether his punishment is deserved but if the scale of it is appropriate. Of course he should have behaved better, and of course he was foolish to try to cover it up (although I suspect he was thinking more about his wife's reaction than his manager's). However the contrast between Tindall's punishment and that meted out to the other two players for harassing a female hotel worker is glaring.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 08:05 AM

It is a pity the whole England team hadn't been caught under CCTV cameras doing the same they could all have done with a shake up and a kick up the behind.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 05:58 AM

This is nothing more than Rob Andrew taking a cheap shot at Martin Johnson (because of England's poor performance on the pitch) because the insipid little git doesn't have the bollocks to give Johnson the bullet himself.
Having stated that, Tindall is too slow and too predictable on the pitch. He only ended up in NZ becuase he was MJ's teammate in 2003. Johnson should resign and go down the Jim Mallinder route of learning the craft of coaching/managing. Come back Johnno when you know what back play is about.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: MikeL2
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 02:38 PM

Hi

Like many things in sport these days this thing has been hyped up out of all proportion.

OK he was guilty of being out out drinking when he should have been at home tucked up in bed. He was the "senior" player and is supposed to set examples and standards for the younger players.

There was a little bit of " shennaniking" in the bar - certainly no evidence of "hands in knickers etc etc". So yes discipline him with a bollocking and a fine by all means. That happened, but the powers that be decided to make an example of him to warn future players of what can happen.

The other factor here IMHO is that Tindall would not have been selected to play for England again had the episode not happened. He was not worth his place and whilst he was good defensively his lack of pace and speed of thought slowed down the whole back line of England's attack.

So maybe the punishment has done England a favour.

There is some talk that says that his club - Gloucester - may take steps to cancel his contract with them leaving Tindall probably with nowhere to go.

Did he deserve that? I would say no, but there is money involved and we all know what that means.

cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 08:50 AM

Hello H.J.
We are cooking with gas again.
You are correct in stating that Mrs Tindall gets nothing from the civil list.
Her wedding billed as a private affair not financed by the taxpayer we now learn cost the Scottish taxpayers £400,000. Do you approve of this expenditure, if so please tell us why.
Can we assume that Mr Tindall has taken over the cost of the security measures enjoyed by his new wife as a member of "The Family", if not, why not, when according to you he can well afford to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: BTNG
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 10:02 AM

"GUEST" why not reveal yourself, under the current circumstances you are really in no position to criticise anyone or anything, and I don't believe anyone here, needs too justify their opinions on anything to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 10:33 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 10:53 AM

Bing you may be called Crosby for all I know. Does that give you a right to adopt a holier than thou attitude to anything I have posted.
The point is did I tell any lies in my posts if so point them out, if not keep your snide remarks to yourself.

P.S. I wonder if this will be deleted as my 10.30 AM post was

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: BTNG
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 11:06 AM

well alright tell you what...I'll call your posts The Daily Mail Maneuver shall I? Not to be taken too seriously,

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 11:39 AM

Bing never having read the Daily Mail I have no idea what kind of journalese they purvey, serious or otherwise, you obviously have the advantage over me there.
I understand in that country that had the privilege of paying out the £400,000 they have a saying "facts are chiels that winna ding"
Refute the facts, if you can.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: BTNG
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:10 PM

Why refute..I don't live in Scotland, so it's hardly my problem

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:37 PM

I may be wrong, but I understood the bill was for security for all the other Royals who attended their wedding.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:48 PM

Bing I refer you to my original post-12.11.11.
Since then it has been seen that my worst fears have been confirmed. Mr Tindall may of course do a "Fergie" and become persona non grata in the "Family" he has certainly made an early move in that direction.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: BTNG
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:57 PM

Eliza, that's exactly what the bill was for.

and GUEST, I have stated what i think and I do believe you are making more of this than there is. Tindall's off the team, and what ever else happens, as a result of his behaviours, is the business of those involved, and that doesn't include me...end of story.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 01:05 PM

Eliza you are correct the bill was for security the event having been billed as a private affair with a stated aim of having no cost to the taxpayer.
They obviously used "politician speak" with as much regard to the truth as eminates from our so called rulers.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 01:56 PM

Bing. I am in complete agreement with you this should only be the business of those involved---but--as long as any public monies are involved, in cash or kind, I reserve the right to comment as I see fit.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 02:22 PM

Guest, I'm not sure what your latest point is - that policing and security costs money? Get real - there are lots of events which cost public money to police - for example, the victory parades for Manchester's two football teams cost over £230000 to police. That's what we pay taxes for. OK, so you apparently disapprove of how some of it was spent. Some of the things may meet your approval, others won't. That's life.

Your original point was to suggest that MT will now somehow become a burden on the taxpayer. You couldn't have been referring to the Civil List since his wife doesn't receive anything from it. I can only assume you feared he would go on the dole.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike Tindall fined and kicked off team
From: GUEST,Hookey Wole
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 03:14 PM

GUEST.. why dontcha just make up a daft forum name and stick with it
for the duration of your contributions to this thread.

A lot of us do that all the time to keep the Anti Guest Brigade 'deleter clones' off our backs.