BS: No Smoking-2years on

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: John Routledge
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 06:29 PM

Hopefully the longer this thread gets the less smoke we will experience in singarounds etc which can't be all bad.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Raptor
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 09:40 AM

If you drive, YOU POLLUTE!

Get off your high horse!

Smoking is an addiction that some of us took up before it was know to be bad!

None of us are saying it is good for you!

But a lot of people here are Quoting studies that none of us have actualy studied The best we can say is "I've Read that second hand smoke is bad"

I"VE READ THE MOON IS MADE OF GREEN CHEESE!

Why is it o.k. for you to polute A LOT with a car,truck,suv. and then bitch about the minute amount of smoke Dayla releases into the outside air?

Are you addicted to not riding a bike, or choosing to find a job within walking distance?

Raptor

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,daylia
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 11:41 AM

Raptor - I luv ya, my friend! :-)

THAT'S SO AWESOME that you've quit for nine months now! WAY TO GO !!!
(cheers ... applause ... cheers ... applause ...)

I'm SO impressed - and inspired! If you can do it, I can do it ...

There's so many good reasons to quit, and the truth is I want to but I'm scared of the STRESS ... I'd like to have more money in my pocket, to be free of the constant need to clear my throat, to maybe be able to sing those high notes again, and most of all not to CARE anymore about all the politics and propoganda...I'd much rather spend my mental/emotional energy on things I really like, like creating music with GOOD PEOPLE (raptors included of course!)

Egads, I've almost talked myself into it now! Maybe I could try using an affirmation, like this ...

"I now choose to release my old friend Tobacco with EASE, with LOVE, and with GRATITUDE for all the good times we've shared and the lessons I've learned. I AM in charge of my mind and my life!! It is EASY for me to totally release anything from my life that I choose to release.
I now choose to love and enjoy myself, and to BREATHE EASY..."

Probably have to shorten that up a bit ... something to say to myself over and over when I'm craving a smoke. IF I crave it at all (miracles do happen!!)

Thanks for the inspiration, Raptor, and thank you too everyone who posted above. Including Smokingyuk, for helping me exercise my 'love-thy-neighbour' faculties.

Ooooo, I'm scared ... am I REALLY going to do this ????

daylia

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Raptor
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 11:53 AM

Dayla

Call me If you need to!

You have more friends in Simcoe County than you know. And we'd all like to help!

Quiting is worth the agro of withdrawl!

Good luck and Love

Raptor

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 12:00 PM

I gave up smoking after reading really scary stuff about the theories as to exactly HOW it could give you cancer - somehow it seemed more real than "it just does". Never fancied a fag since (well except for the very occasional O.P.).
I've just applied the same technique to drinking (which I do [I mean did] to excess). Having read about the details of HOW it nackers your liver etc, I haven't fancied a drink all week.
If you don't do these things to excess (or are willing to take the risks) then I think there's no real desperate need to quit - but if you know you are doing yourself some damage then the "frighten yourself shitless" approach is worth a try.
Good luck to all change-makers.
ANd specially good luck to you nutty. Keep it up!

Kris

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,daylia
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 12:03 PM

Raptor, thank you! I'm going to join Mudcat as a member now, so I can PM you and all the other wonderful cats I've met here ...

daylia

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 12:25 PM

Congratulations Nutty. I never really got into the smoking habit and kicked it easily at 16 when I realised that I didn't have enough money to smoke and run a motorbike - in hindesight, smoking was probably the safer activity at that age.

I'm sure that you've noticed some positive things in giving up. One of my mates reckoned that the reason he put on weight was that food tasted so much better after he'd quit. Another friend became much more fussy about which beers he drank - because "they didn't all taste the same anymore". Then of course it must be an improvement not to smell like an old bonfire all the time.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: nutty
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 01:12 PM

go for it Daylia ......become a mudcat member and start a thread of your own ....... this commits you to stating your intentions and lets people directly support you.

Use the thread to verbalise your feelings ......I posted more when I was feeling bad than when I was feeling good.

I used Mudcat to help me break the smoking habit ....... Coming on the computer at times when I would normally sit down and have a cigarette ....OK - I got hooked on Mudcat but that didn't seem a bad thing.

Use the Personal messages and Mudchat (you can use the chat site when you become a member) to communicate directly with your supporters and please count me as one.

Prepare yourself .....get angry ...... find something that you want but can't afford ( my aim was to have two dogs. When I got the second I then couldn't afford to start smoking again)

Most of all good luck and remember .....you are doing this for yourself not for anyone else and if you weaken it's no great problem just try again.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: *daylia*
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 02:23 PM

Nutty thank you so much for the good ideas and the support. I've let the 'rebellious' feelings re propoganda and the preaching of non-smokers (well-intentioned though, I guess) interfere with this decision for too long. But right now I just can't believe how weepy I'm feeling. I've loved my 'friend' Tobacco for so long.

Maybe it's like finally walking away from an abusive mate or something.

I better go before I drench this stupid (sorry, not stupid) keyboard. I have enough trouble getting it ti do what I want it to.

And CONGRATULATIONS for your two years smoke-free! And bless you for starting this thread. It just may change my life.

daylia

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,Smoking yuk !!!!!
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 05:47 PM

Actualy I dont drive and I do cycle nearly everywhere I go even at my advanced age of 42....

There is no doubt about it...the indiscrminate use of the automobile and the abandoning of rail and water based transport in favour of gas guzzling polluting road transportation and the unneccesary transporting of materials and livestock to satisfy greedy corporate needs are nothing short of a crime against the very eco system we depend upon.....But dare I say it to link nicotine addiction with an undoubted need and desire by folks to be more mobile is stretching the tenuous to the ridiculous....Living as I do in crowded over populated London cycling realy is the only option whilst i'm still able to get about under my own steam due largely to the callous exploitation of residential property prices by all the industries concerned with this matter and a hierachical political system that knows that perpetuation of enormously inflated property prices makes for a much more passive workforce who's energies are largely exhausted just running to keep up with trying to pay their mortgages whilst having to navigate the artificialy congested road and public transport systems due to not being able to afford to live anywhere near their place of work..Its a crazy crazy system almost designed to drive you to want to start smoking to calm ones nerves ha ha..

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: nutty
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 06:13 PM

You cycle to work in London and you are worried about passive smoking...................
I'd say that that was the least of your problems.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 07:11 PM

daylia, I remember how weepy and angry I was for several weeks after I quit. All I could hope for was the rapid passage of time when it would be easier... What got me to quit was when I finally realized that the fact that it would be difficult to do wasn't the point- the point was that I didn't want to be a smoker anymore. (I still wanted to smoke, though! What I really wanted was to sit down and light up in celebrating that I had quit smoking. Go figure.)

It DOES get better, and quite quickly too.

My brother with emphysema told me on the phone just yesterday that regardless of the shape he ended up in, he really had enjoyed smoking, but decided that it really hasn't been worth it.

Nutty has a good thought there: If you find that you've gone 'off the wagon, so to speak, no big deal; just get back on. One of my brothers had quit for almost a year then smoked for seven months, quit for good next time- and it's been almost 30 years for him.

The best of luck to you.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,Smoking yuk !!!!!
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 07:23 PM

Alas Nutty until the matter transporter is perfected there isnt much choice....You sound like yet another smoker in denial....

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 08:33 PM

Yuk, you're not paying attention.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: ballpienhammer
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 09:25 PM

Remember: Do NOT fret as to WHETHER or not you can do it! That worry and indecision will keep you lit up. Your mind will turn it into a reason to continue smoking. NIKE: JUST DO IT! bph

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 04:23 AM

Good for you, daylia and nice to see you as a member, now!

Just a thought: maybe take your affirmation a step further and make it a thanksgiving, i.e. thank the Great Spirit/Divine Order/or whatever you believe in, that you are healthy and free from smoking. Give thanks to tobacco and honour it with a kind of letting-go.

Then, end it with the caveat, "I ask for this or something better for the highest good of all concerned." That way you can be open to all of the infinite possibilities, of divine order as you call it, which can lead you through this wonderful transition. In my belief, when I do this, I am leaving it up the the god of my heart/Great Spirit to decide the best way for me to achieve something and to guide me, as long as I am open to receiving. Just a thought.:-)

kat

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Raptor
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 07:24 AM

The key to quiting for me was to realize that I can never have "just one more Cig".

Chewing carrats helps too!

Raptor

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: *daylia*
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 10:58 AM

Ebbie - thank you. It's a relief to know that feeling so :-( is a natural thing, and that it will get better. I thought I must be really bonkers or something. Last time I quit was 20 years ago and I don't remember being depressed, just aggravated. It was when I got arrested - for something I didn't do - a few months later that I broke down under the strain and stress and started smoking again. The charge was dismissed, but dammit I've never tried to quit again since.

I'm so sorry to hear about your brother's emphysema. And to hear about how Smokingyuk grew up in a house with parents who smoked heavily and didn't respect his need to breathe fresh air. No wonder the poor soul hates it so much! And to be riding a bike every day through the London smog, then spending time in a smoky pub - that's probably why you cough up black tar, bud.

If I WAS sick this would probably be so much easier. And that's one of the DUMBEST-sounding things I've every heard, but it's true. I know I'm not getting any younger. Raptor hasn't seen me in a few years and I've sprouted a few gray hairs since then!

It was reading what someone said above that it wasn't till around age 50 or so that the damage became apparent that really got me thinking. That's not too far off for me now, and I'd like to be around to see my grandkids, if I ever have any. My sons are not as prolific as I was - thank god/dess!

Kat - those are wonderful ideas!! :-) I'll take them into meditation this morning. I do need to honour Tobacco for what it is - a ceremonial sacred herb. I need to let it go with love and gratitude and respect - I've been practicing native ways for a long time now.

I really do believe that if people used it in a 'sacred' manner, for prayer and offerings, with respect for both self and the plant (AND the fire which burns it), there would be no health risks. The Indians grew and used tobacco for thousands of years with no health problems. But they lived in dwellings equipped with SMOKE-HOLES in the roofs, not only to vent the ceremonial smoke but the open fires for cooking and heating. And they sure didn't smoke all day long - who needs to pray constantly? They had a healthy, active lifestyle too - spending most of their time doing strenuous physical activities outdoors in the fresh air.

One thing I find intriguing is that the Indians carried tobacco leaves ( and other 'totem' items )in their "medicine pouches" - small decorative bags made of hides and worn under the clothes next to the skin. Their Tobacco WAS tobacco, not the chemically-laden stuff that they make cigarettes out of today - so it was pretty potent stuff. Seems to me that the nicotine in the tobacco leaves must leach through the leather pouches and be absorbed through the skin, like those nicotine patches some people use to help quitting. So they could have the stimulating effects of nicotine (and it IS a stimulant) WITHOUT smoking.

I might just make me one of those - in ceremony - if I can find some REAL tobacco leaves. That way I could honour Tobacco for what it is AND possibly reduce the cravings at the same time. Even just holding it in my hands would be soothing cause I like the feel of soft leather...and I could breathe out prayers of gratitude at the same time - WITHOUT smoking. Hmmmmmmm ...

Anyway, just like Raptor and bph said above, I know that even ONE cig is too much if I'm serious about quitting. I still have most of the last carton of smokes I bought last week in the frig (along with a pack of PRETTY lighters, dammit). I plan to make a medicine pouch for a Christmas present to myself, and to keep the smokes until then so I don't get too miserable. (At least I know I can have one if things get really bad, until I get my "medicine" together). Then, on Christmas day I'll give the rest away to the smokers I know - and the lighters too. And it will be the BEST Christmas present I've ever given to myself!!!

Thanks to all you Mudcatters for your understanding and support and inspiration. Healthy, happy Blessings to you all! I send out gratitude in Four Directions ...

daylia

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 11:10 AM

daylia, my heart is full of happiness in reading your words of such self-honesty and sharing. It takes a lot of courage to let go of an old rebellious way and move onto a positive road, esp. admitting it publically.

I agree with you about if people used tobacco in a sacred way. I use it in prayer pouches, along with corn meal, at full moon with a sacred fire.

kat

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: *daylia*
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 12:00 PM

Ahhh, Kat, and it's a full moon tonight! I'm going to go now to my friends' "spiritual medicine shoppe" and see if she has any ceremonial Tobacco left from the plants she grew last summer (under threat of being arrested, by the way. That's how bad the campaign against the plant is getting where I live). If she does, I'll be stitching deerskin under the Full Moon tonight - and even if she doesn't maybe regular tobacco will do till I can find some ...

Blessed Be

daylia

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 01:51 PM

"I really do believe that if people used it in a 'sacred' manner, for prayer and offerings, with respect for both self and the plant (AND the fire which burns it), there would be no health risks". I agree.

There is a local Tlingit medicine man (who is also Roman Catholic) who does cleansings and other rites. He always cleanses the air and the people with tobacco and sage and sweet grasses before he begins the ceremony. And you pay him with tobacco, never with money.

He doesn't smoke.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: *daylia*
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 03:28 PM

Beautiful, Ebbie! One does not have to give up Tobacco to give up smoking! And thanks for mentioning that tobacco is used with other herbs as a cleansing 'smudge'. Seems ironic, doesn't it.

Raptor just reminded me on the phone that my money actually PAYS for that propoganda I take such exception too when I buy commercial cigarettes. Now that's the ULTIMATE stupidity!!! My buck stops HERE, right now!!

daylia

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Cluin
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 03:46 PM

I believe, in my conspiracy-minded way, they must add something extremely addictive to the tobacco in cigarettes (not that the tobacco isn't addictive enough on its own). What is it about cigarettes that makes some smokers even get up in the middle of the night for a smoke?

Because all the cigar and pipe smokers I know, (who don't smoke cigs too) are happy enough with lighting up only once or twice a day, or even a few times a week. They don't have to have a nic-fix every half-hour or 20 minutes.

(Good thing too, since, though a cigar tastes better than a cigarette, IMO, they sure do reek. Not many folks object to the odour of pipe smoke though)

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,Smoking yuk !!!!!
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 06:33 PM

Isnt all this getting a wee bit narcisic...Just use your brains quit smoking before your body quits on you.....it needs to be done and theres no two ways about it..dont go giving your coffin nails away destroy them before they destroy anybody elses physical health and peace of mind...Jesus Wepps this smoking is a curse....

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 07:57 PM

...8-)

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,Fred Miller
Date: 03 Jan 03 - 06:10 PM

Yuk, dude.... Despite any findings or facts of science, science also shows that the sensible-seeming things we do to reduce risks paradoxically don't wind up reducing risks generally or saving lives, or preventing much in the end. This is because of something called risk homeostasis. And another thing called mortality. Now science can't prove mortality generally, until all the results are in, and science is based on a principle of cause and effect, which can't be tested--one would have to start at the beginning of time and test until the end of time--but loudmouthed proponents of conventional wisdom often have short attention spans. You'd think they'd want to smoke ha ha.

Why do people keep trying to derive moral notions from science? It's just a technique. It's horrid, insensible, and you end up like people blaming gay behavior for AIDS--is there a causal connection, sure, sometimes, and does it invite you to sit up on the creator's shoulder when judgements are handed down? sure, at risk of something that might matter, I don't know. Are you making sense? well, yes, when it's easy to, which reveals something about you. Are you worth listening to? No. You're drunk with a little information that's been spelled out for you, and like a drunk, keep saying the same thing with ever-renewed emphasis and tones of self-congratulations. No offense about drinking, I'm talking about something else. I drink, much as you say you do. Or much more irresponsibly, if you'd prefer. But I'd sooner shoot myself in the head than go through life squabbling about whose choices are going to make points with the Teacher. Mine are worse, you win, go screw yourself.

I don't deny anything about the dangers of smoking, am not in denial, I bet it's worse than anyone thinks, but I find it childish in an extreme way way for people to look at longevity as a report card for one's choices. How did everyone get that a longer life is a better life? I stayed home that day sniffing glue. How can we shake our heads, so knowingly, at a seventy year old man who is out of breath, the poor fool. For the sake of something or other--I don't know the man, I hope he had a beautiful life and dies the same way, whether by cancer, bus fumes, or garage-door opener, as a friend of mine did. Or maybe he "died of cancer at twenty five, ha ha." Listen to yourself. You sound like an alcoholic I know very very well who quit drinking years ago. Turned out it wasn't the problem, he had just turned his simple mean-spiritedness against himself after he made a mistake, and drank to deal with it. Addictive personalities. Health risks. Yuk.