Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 24 - 06:42 AM

Here's your problem, which is also the world's problem: in whichever national poll you look at, Trump is ahead of Biden (wiki was my source).

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Jan 24 - 07:14 AM

That is a pathetic source subject to deliberate corruption.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 24 - 08:08 AM

What about PBS?

Are they pathetic too? From that article

Biden vs. Trump

Public polling strongly suggests that voters do not want a rematch between Trump and Biden.

Most U.S. adults overall (56%) would be “very” or “somewhat” dissatisfied with Biden as the Democratic presidential nominee in 2024, according to a poll conducted last month by The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research. A similar majority (58%) said they would be very or somewhat dissatisfied with Trump as the GOP’s pick.

Perhaps because of such apathy, some voters simply don’t believe Biden and Trump will end up on the general election ballot, despite strong evidence to the contrary. That’s an idea that conservative strategist Sarah Longwell, who founded the Republican Accountability Project, says she hears regularly during weekly focus groups with voters across the political spectrum.

“Voters really aren’t thinking about it, so they don’t see the thing that’s coming right at us — the most likely scenario, which is Trump vs. Biden,” Longwell said. “But Trump is so dangerous. … I wish the level of urgency from everybody matched the reality of where we are headed.”

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 24 - 08:12 AM

It's like watching a train that is about to crash. All the outsiders in the rest of the world can see it is about to happen but those on the US train are in denial :-(

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Jan 24 - 08:23 AM

Very good Dave, I would expect that only Americans could notice the degraded integrity of NPR and some PBS journalism. The main point of voter fatigue in another Trump-Biden face-off is however true.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Jan 24 - 09:17 AM

Trump's best bet - a strong one, I think, as a non-lawyer - is Section 5 of the Amendment, which seems not to get much attention in these discussions:

"The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article."

He can argue that it takes an act of Congress to disqualify a candidate in a national election and possibly in a state primary as well.

Admittedly it doesn't say "Congress alone," but interpretation will be up to the Supreme court.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Jan 24 - 09:45 AM

The state of Maine's Attorney General that obeyed the 14th amendment that disqualifies Trump from running for office was Swatted the following day, which is an anonymous caller claiming an emergency involving a shooting that prompted an armed response by law enforcement that has led to an accidental shooting of residents.

The bomb threats, Swatting, arson, and shootings by Trump supporters resemble the Taliban more each day.

Lighter could you expand on what the 5th Amendment orders and by whom?
The word shall, which means must, does not appear. I do not trust the Supreme Court to be literalists anymore.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Jan 24 - 10:36 AM

What I quoted is the entirety of Section 5, which applies (it seems) to all four preceding sections.

Read the whole Amendment here:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Jan 24 - 11:25 AM

Stop the sniping. Steve and Donuel, we're all sick of it. Keep your opinions about each other's posts to yourselves. Everyone else, if you can stop referencing those remarks they can be deleted without interrupting the conversation.

ABC ran a story on December 29, 2023, that NPR and MSNBC and others have referenced. They did the hard work, digging into the Congressional Record and probably reading a lot of published speeches by the Senators holding the discussion about that amendment. (I've had to scan the speeches of House members discussing the Wilmot Proviso, to do with allowing slavery in Western states - it was earlier but will be much the same format of published remarks.)

As it originally passed the House, the 14th Amendment's third section was not nearly as broad as the version now being invoked to strike Trump's name from the ballot. It was narrowly crafted to apply only to those who willingly took part in the Civil War, and it was only meant to deprive former confederates of their right to cast ballots in federal elections. It also had an expiration date.

"Sec. 3. Until the 4th day of July, in the year 1870, all persons who voluntarily adhered to the late insurrection, giving it aid and comfort, shall be excluded from the right to vote for Representatives in Congress and for electors for President and Vice President of the United States," the original, House-passed version read, according to congressional records of the era.

The Senate spent several days debating the House-passed amendment in the spring of 1866. While the birthright citizenship provisions in Section 1 earned a lot of time in debate, Section 3 was also the subject of an intense back-and-forth on the floor. The transcripts can be read in the Congressional Globe, a forerunner to the Congressional Record.

Sen. Jacob Howard of Michigan, who led the Republicans in debate, insisted that it wouldn't be enough to deprive the former confederates of their right to vote in federal elections -- he wanted them banished from government service altogether.

"I should prefer a clause prohibiting all persons who have participated in the rebellion, and who were over twenty-five years of age at the breaking out of the rebellion, from all participation in offices, either Federal or State, throughout the United States," Howard said on the Senate floor on May 23, 1866. "I think such a provision would be a benefit to the nation."

After about a week of discussions with colleagues, Howard offered the Sec. 3 language that was ultimately ratified. Howard's revision removed specific references to "the" rebellion and added an important qualifier: those who were to be excluded from government service would have to have violated prior oaths to defend the constitution by having "engaged in insurrection or rebellion against [it] or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."

Senators rejected various attempts to re-insert the word "voluntarily," or to restrict the exclusion to those who violated their oaths during the time they were still serving in office.

There was a great deal of concern voiced in debate that Howard's exclusion clause might leave the South ungovernable, with so many confederates poised to be disqualified from serving, even in state posts. Opponents expressed fear that the provision might alienate Union-loyal supporters in state legislatures. Nevertheless, the version Howard introduced made it through the entire ratification process and became effective on July 9, 1868.

In 2024, the originalists on the Supreme Court will likely seek to determine whether the ratifiers could have had it in mind 158 years ago that Sec. 3 might not only be applied to the "late insurrection," as the House-passed version originally had it, but also to any other rebellion that might later take place.

But originalists might take note of what Sen. Peter Van Winkle of West Virginia said as he sought to have the threshold for congressional amnesty in Howard's version lowered to a simple majority, rather than two-thirds.

"This is to go into our Constitution and to stand to govern future insurrection as well as the present; and I should like to have that point definitely understood," Van Winkle said at the time.

It's also worth noting that there was just a single reference in the Senate debate to the fact that the president and vice president were not explicitly mentioned in Howard's draft as "officer(s) of the United States," the way members of Congress and state officials had been itemized in the text. Would the disqualification clause of the amendment not cover the top posts in the executive branch?

"Why did you omit to exclude them?" asked Maryland Democratic Sen. Reverdy Johnson.

Maine's Lot Morrill jumped in to clarify.

"Let me call the Senator's attention to the words 'or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States,'" Morrill said, ending the discussion on that point.

Van Winkle and Morrill have spelled it out. The US Supreme Court won't be able to ignore these remarks, and those who consider themselves "originalists" can't ignore the later amendment to the constitution.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Jan 24 - 12:04 PM

>
"Let me call the Senator's attention to the words 'or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States,'" Morrill said, ending the discussion on that point.

That reply is distressingly cavalier, possibly because Morrill thought the point to obvious to discuss.

But had he said, specifically, "Those words clearly apply as well to the highest offices in the land," that could have settled it. I'm surprised none of his colleagues required the wording of the Amendment to nail that down.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Jan 24 - 04:25 PM

The odds of the Supreme Court taking the case is still about 50-50 in my guess. There are strong arguments on each side.

Several State Capitols were evacuated today with more BOMB THREATS.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 24 - 06:39 AM

The campaign promise from Trump that he would imprison immigrants and citizens alike as enemies of the people and himself in camps has a lot of support from ALEC which is a corporate political organisation that writes laws for Republicans like Stand your Ground and 1078 and runs the private prisons of the USA.
Here are a few of their corporate owned prisons and sub contractors for supplies:

U.S. FOR-PROFIT PRIVATIZED CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
January 2017 – Not a full listing
Facility Operations
CoreCivic (Corrections Corp. of America)
The GEO Group
Management & Training Corp.
Community Education Centers
LaSalle Corrections
Emerald Companies
Medical / Mental Health Care
Corizon Health (Beecken Petty O'Keefe & Co.)
Centurion (Centene)
NaphCare, Inc.
Correct Care Solutions
Wexford Health Sources
Armor Corr. Health Services
Advanced Correctional Healthcare
Correctional Medical Care
Southern Health Partners
MHM (mental health)
Cal. Forensic Medical Group (Correctional
Medical Group Companies; H.I.G. Capital)
Southwest Correctional Medical Group
CFG Health Systems
PrimeCare Medical, Inc.
CorrectHealth, LLC
Pharmaceutical Services
PharmaCorr (Corizon)
Diamond Pharmacy Services
Maxor Correctional Pharmacy Services
Correct Rx
Transportation Services
TransCor (CCA)
PTS of America
U.S. Prisoner Transport Services
Black Talon Enterprises
GEO Transport (GEO Group)
In-Custody Transportation

Package/Commissary Services
Access SecurePak (Keefe)
Union Supply Group
Jack L. Marcus
Access
ABL Management
Bob Barker Company
ICS Jail Supplies
Food Services
Aramark
Canteen Corr. Services
Trinity Services Group (H.I.G. Capital)
ABL Management, Inc.
Food Services of America (Services Group of
America)
Phone/Video Visit/Email Services
Global Tel*Link (American Securities)
Securus Technologies (ABRY Partners)
CenturyLink
PayTel
Telmate
NCIC
Consolidated Telecom
ICSolutions (Keefe / H.I.G. Capital)
Legacy Inmate Communications
IWEBVisit, LLC
JPay (Securus)
HomeWAV
Turnkey Corrections
JailATM
Primarily Juvenile Facilities
G4S Youth Services (U.S. operations)
Youth Services International
Abraxas Youth & Family Services (GEO)
Cornerstone Programs
Mid-Atlantic Youth Services Corp.

Money Transfer Services
JPay (Securus)
Western Union
Access Corrections (Keefe)
Tech Friends, Inc.
Halfway Houses/Community Corrections
Community Education Centers
Hope Village (DC)
Correctional Alternatives, Inc. (CCA)
Avalon Correctional Services (CCA)
ComCor, Inc.
Correctional Management (CCA)
GEO Care (GEO Group)
Release Debit Cards
JPay (Securus)
NUMI Financial/Futura
JP Morgan Chase Bank
Release Pay/Rapid Financial Solutions
EZ Exit/Continental Prison Systems
Turnkey Corrections
Global Tel*Link
Keefe Commissary
Skylight Financial
Electronic Monitoring
BI, Inc. (GEO)
3M Electronic Monitoring, Inc.
ISECUREtrac Corp.
Satellite Tracking of People (Securus)
Offender Management Services
Probation Services
Sentinel Offender Services
Judicial Corr. Services (Correct Care Solutions)
Georgia Probation Services
CSRA Probation Services, Inc.

Compiled by Prison Legal News (www.prisonlegalnews.org)

Facility Design and Build
Sierra Companies
Hale-Mills Construction
Turner Construction (Hochtief)
Kimme & Associates, Inc.
Primarily Immigration Detention
Ahtna Corporation
Akai Security
Asset Protection and Security Services
Immigration Centers of America
Valley Metro Barbosa Group

Compiled by Prison Legal News (www.prisonlegalnews.org)


I believe this conglomerate has the ability for concentration and ghetto prison camps. An investigative journalist or our own Stilly could look into the contributions to a Trump campaign from this ALECprivate prison group.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jan 24 - 11:04 AM

Really interesting interview by Judy Woodruff of PBS about the citizen investigators who are helping the FBI track down and charge the rioters from January 6.

The woman interviewed is seen only from the back and her name has been changed. If Trump were to get into office these people's heads would be on pikes leading into town. And there are a lot of people in the FBI who are resisting these investigations. Trump supporters and mid-level hires, no doubt, who haven't left or been fired for malfeasance.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jan 24 - 12:41 PM

Interesting piece in The Guardian

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 24 - 12:52 PM

The R. House is still hanging together rather than hang separately.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 05 Jan 24 - 12:57 PM

Donald Trump's businesses received millions in payments from foreign governments while he was in office, report finds

"Key points:

"A report details $11.6 million in foreign payments from 20 countries was paid to Trump businesses
   
"The payments in the report are likely a fraction of foreign payments made to Trump, the report said

"China, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Malaysia were among the countries"

....

"The report discussed four properties, less than 1 per cent of the 558 corporate entities Mr Trump owned either directly or indirectly as president.

"Mr Trump's accounting firm did not provide documents regarding at least 80 per cent of Mr Trump's business entities, congressional investigators said.

"'These countries spent — often lavishly — on apartments and hotel stays at Donald Trump's properties — personally enriching president Trump while he made foreign policy decisions connected to their policy agendas with far-reaching ramifications for the United States,' the report said.

"The countries included China, Saudi Arabia, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Malaysia and more."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 24 - 01:09 PM

Trump made over 500 million from China alone.

Donald is fairly certain breaking Constitutional law will go unanswered with his personally selected Supreme Court.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Jan 24 - 01:15 PM

Yeah, but Eric says they donated the profits to the U.S. Treasury. For America!

Checkmate again, libs!

[Rated R for strong irony, sarcasm, bad attitude.]


https://www.newsweek.com/eric-trump-reacts-report-that-donald-trump-got-millions-china-1857928

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 24 - 08:29 AM

Entre nous there is no trace of Russian money going to Trump which is hard to believe.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Jan 24 - 01:48 PM

They say God made Trump to save America:

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/111703421569603715

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jan 24 - 02:53 PM

Let's please stop with the long editorials and philosophy - and just share news. Less bickering results that way (in most threads, actually.)

The Supremes have agreed to hear an appeal about the Colorado decision to keep Trump off the ballot. So many other things they could get done at the same time. And meanwhile, Trump is warning of trouble ahead (the copy is pasted here in case anyone north of the border wanted to know about this):
Trump warns of ‘big trouble’ as Supreme Court agrees to hear Colorado ballot case.

Former President Trump warned Friday that there will be “big trouble” if the Supreme Court does not rule in his favor on his eligibility for the 2024 presidential ballot.

The Supreme Court is set to hear the Colorado case after the state’s Supreme Court determined last month that Trump should not be on the primary ballot due to his involvement in the Jan. 6 insurrection.

“I just hope we get fair treatment,” Trump said at an Iowa rally Friday. “Because if we don’t, our country’s in big, big trouble. Does everybody understand what I’m saying?”

Trump also complained of Democrats casting doubt on the court because Trump appointed three of its justices, claiming that they are attempting to put undue political pressure on the court’s decisions.

“They’re saying, ‘Oh, Trump owns the Supreme Court, he owns it. He owns it. If they make a decision for him, it will be terrible. It’ll ruin their reputations,” he said. “‘He owns the Supreme Court. He put on three judges. He owns the Supreme Court. If they rule in his favor, it will be horrible for them. And we’ll protest at their houses.’”

“That puts pressure on people to do the wrong thing. What they’re doing is no different than Bobby Knight,” he continued, referring to the legendary college basketball coach famous for raucous arguments with referees.

The Colorado case argues that Trump’s actions surrounding the Jan. 6 Capitol riots fall under the 14th Amendment’s “insurrection clause,” which disqualifies those who have engaged or assisted in insurrection against the country from holding office.

Any Supreme Court decision will likely also put to bed the issue in other states. Trump’s ballot qualifications have been challenged in over a dozen states, and he was removed from the ballot in Maine on the same argument.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 24 - 07:21 PM

The cover of the New Yorker magazine is opinion and philosophy.

A good cartoon shows MAGA fanatics yelling WE can't trust the voters on 1-6 and today shouting LET the voters decide!

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 24 - 08:57 AM

In GA lawyers for Trump are arguing that Donald had no idea that overturning an election was illegal. Even I know ignorance of the law is no defense. Are these dollar-store lawyers?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 09 Jan 24 - 10:19 AM

Regardless of that, they're coming up with anything they can think of to delay the trials and whip up public sympathy for their client.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jan 24 - 11:41 AM

That cover of The New Yorker is perfect. Buy it to add to your collection of Trump covers.

He was in court this morning but apparently there wasn't an opportunity to grandstand on the way in or out. I listened to part of the hearing, it would have been better if it was televised and not just the sound, but we'll take what we can get.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jan 24 - 04:50 PM

Trump can’t speak during closing arguments in NY civil fraud trial, judge says

In a letter to attorneys for Trump and New York Attorney General Letitia James just after noon Wednesday, Engoron said that Trump hasn’t agreed to conditions he set should the former president wish to give a statement.

“Not having heard from you by the third extended deadline (noon today), I assume that Mr. Trump will not agree to the reasonable, lawful limits I have imposed as a precondition to giving a closing statement above and beyond those given by his attorneys, and that, therefore, he will not be speaking in court tomorrow,” Engoron wrote.

The judge is shutting down the platform that Trump wants to use to continue to blame Biden, to claim the president is prosecuting him.

"“Allowing Mr. Trump to present closing argument will invite more speeches that will ‘unduly disrupt’ the proceedings,” Andrew Amer wrote in an email last Thursday."

Engoron offered Trump the opportunity to speak in his own defense closing argument but said the former president must agree to preset conditions that would limit what he can and cannot say. He would not be allowed to campaign, the judge said.

Engoron also said if Trump violated the gag order, he’d fine him and remove him from court.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 24 - 06:41 PM

Stilly, when Hitler was allowed to speak at his insurrection trial it was a grand mistake. If only a judge Engoran had been on the bench.

Lighter it is perfectly true some arguments are meant to delay but when throwing their dirty underwear against the wall they should have the ability to stick. Trump's arguments are surprisingly 'unstickworthy'. Trump's lawyers are playing for Trump's approval and not a passionate defense. Their heart is not into it which is a good thing.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 24 - 10:23 PM

The pattern of Trump's breathing tonight in his 'town hall' resembled the breathing of James Gandolfini before he had his heart attack. The specific type of breathing shows excessive stress on the heart with loud nasal inhalations. This is not an acute condition but is a warning sign. I only mention this because I was correct about Reagan's dementia 3 years before the famous letter announcing his condition. On TV I said I saw evidence of the President's symptoms of organic brain disease while the rest of the panel of psychologists and 'experts' were aghast and flabbergasted. I was not asked back and NO ONE MENTIONED 3 YEARS LATER that I had been correct. C'est la vie.


btw Chris Christie spoke eloquently, confessionally and directly on C-Span and later on TV tonight.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 24 - 05:58 AM

He didn't exactly help one of Trump's opponents though, did he? Ah, the curse of the microphone...

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jan 24 - 03:32 AM

Still think we are safe after last night in Iowa? :-(

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Jan 24 - 03:54 AM

Apparently, the result will please the Biden camp, according to this piece on BBC News this morning.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Jan 24 - 03:51 PM

The percentage of people who go out to participate in the Iowa caucuses is minute compared to the registered voters of the state. Let them think he won - but make sure everyone gets out to vote in November. Polls, caucuses, even primaries are barely useful to extrapolate from. Only the election itself matters.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jan 24 - 04:11 PM

I genuinely hope you are right Stilly but, from here, it looks grim :-(

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Jan 24 - 04:37 PM

The numbers are meaningless. But media companies want eyeballs and advertisers and they go with the Trump nonsense because they get the ratings. They didn't learn their lesson in 2016, but so many people know what he is up to now that even though his supporters are noisy and brash and out there for the Iowa event, it really doesn't add up to anything.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jan 24 - 04:25 PM

Everyone knows extreme cold makes caucuses shrink. :^/

Jean Carroll is still getting death threats as Trump continues his misogynist denials.

Entire police and FBI departments treat sexual abuse and rape cases as he said she said scenarios. It would help if only female detectives conducted investigations.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Jan 24 - 05:16 PM

Ivanka Trump Former Employee Ends Up in Father's Jury Pool

"A woman says she worked for Ivanka Trump's company doing communications work in 2017/18 and also says it won't impact her ability to be fair to both sides," Crane-Newman posted to X, formerly Twitter.

The prospective juror's identity, nor her position for Ivanka Trump, has not been made public. It is unclear if she was one of the nine jurors selected.

Former federal prosecutor Neama Rahmani told Newsweek that the potential juror's former employment under Ivanka Trump would not be enough to have her removed from the case.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 03:39 AM

The Supreme Court could have a way out of their predicament. If they rule that the presidency is covered by the 14th amendment but Trump has not yet been found guilty of insurrection in a court of law, then the onus moves to the court trying him for his part in Jan 6.

But what do I know!?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 07:48 AM

My position has become conservative! I prefer an original Constitutional Government over a New Government with rampant political violence and dictatorial decree with a license to kill political opponents.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 08:07 AM

Trump hasn't been charged with "insurrection."

But the 14th Amendment doesn't say who determines whether he did so engage. The states? Congress? The Supreme Court? It's all very murky.

He was charged with inciting an insurrection in his second impeachment but was acquitted by the Senate. Impeachment is a political, not a judicial, procedure. He could still be charged criminally - and at the time of his acquittal, McConnell, Graham, McCarthy, and others insisted that he should be. What changed their minds and turned them back into ardent supporters is unclear.

The current charges against Trump in the 1/6 case are:

Conspiracy to defraud the government [with false electors]

Conspiracy against the right to vote [by attempting with others to overturn the legitimate result of an election]

Conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding [by exhorting the crowd (again with others) to march to the Capitol and "fight like hell"]

Obstruction of an official proceeding [by doing nothing to call off the rioters once they were in the building]

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 08:19 AM

What you call murky I call cut and dried.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 08:30 AM

What Lighter calls ‘murky’, and Don calls ‘cut and dried’, I call ‘confused and confusing’.

Although nothing to do with UK, it’s a fact that the election of a US President has a huge effect on us in the UK, and on the rest of the world. All the reporting I see here in the U.K. seems to suggest that none of these cases will come to fruition before the Election, that Trump will be the Republican candidate again, and he will subsequently become 47.

I fear for the US and I fear for the world.

Please, Dog, let me be wrong…

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 08:58 AM

Trump and his attorneys are using every strategem in the book to delay these trials.

It seems quite unlikely to me that any but the current civil cases will be decided before the election.

But it may not matter. Trump's followers are certain that all these cases are "election interference" and that any convictions will be overturned by the Supreme Court. As I've mentioned, such appeals can take several years.

If Trump is re-elected, he will suspend all the investigations and trials.

His unique claim - on no legal basis whatever - that he has and deserves "absolute immunity" may eventually erode some of his popularity. It's a long way to November.

Right now, though, he's neck and neck with Biden - and more popular as a public figure.

Makes you think.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 10:01 AM

This is one reason why people are still talking about expanding the court (to dilute the Trump effect) and also putting as much pressure on Clarence Thomas to 1) resign in disgrace or at least 2) recuse himself because his wife was involved in the Jan. 6 stuff.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 01:46 PM

The Supreme Court was supposed to be apolitical and just decide on the interpretation of the Constitution and settle lower court disputes.
BUT things have changed along with the growth of corruption.

IF the USA only relied on the popular vote, Democrats would have won the last 7 presidential elections and the Republicans only one.

Republicans have relied on becoming loophole masters and legislating litigation to maximize Republican votes by minimizing Democrat votes via voter suppression.

How would I try to make the system more fair for people who are not billionaires?

I would nationalize money that is laundered in the USA and do a Robin Hood for the 'poor'. The biggest laundry of dirty money is in the USA. Russia launders its money in Cyprus. The king of laundered money is in the State of Deleware and a few northern western States via shell companies. The Panama Papers were the blueprint for this hidden money scheme from the records of a law firm that enabled the system.

I'm sure I wouldn't last long after I removed the billionaire's stash.
I might even pay off most of the national debt with the left over cash if I could elude hired assasines. This plan has its risks. Besides billionaires might then look to China to launder their cash. They already do with Chinese super lockdown warehouses for billionaire hard goods.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 02:24 PM

In the State of Georgia cases against Trump and his allies, it seems DA Fani Willis, a single woman, was dating a separated man who is divorcing his wife. She hired him (at some point - before or after the relationship began?) and it seems his separated wife has decided to get even and is working with Trump attorneys to smear Willis.

Not sure if this is a report or an opinion piece, but here are some details to sort through: Fani Willis Just Made a Critical Mistake, Legal Analyst Warns

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 02:43 PM

The latest report is that Trump made a speech and sounded more incoherent than usual.

Kind of reminds me of "covfefe." Remember that one?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 05:19 PM

He can still recall five items in order...with hesitation.

There is still suspense about whether The Donald is headed for the White House or the Big House. Better minds than mine believe the Supream Court will NOT take up the Colorado ballot case.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Jan 24 - 10:42 AM

From yesterday's Washington Post:

A ‘whale’ of a tale: Trump continues to distort cognitive test he took
The Montreal Cognitive Assessment, a test aimed at detecting dementia or cognitive decline, never included the combination of animals Trump identified this week

I particularly like the quote

Experts also note that the assessment is not an I.Q. or intelligence test, though Trump has often talked about it as if it was.

“It’s a very, very low bar for somebody who carries the nuclear launch codes in their pocket to pass and certainly nothing to brag about,” said Jonathan Reiner, a cardiologist and professor of medicine and surgery at the George Washington School of Medicine & Health Sciences.

Addressing the crowd of supporters Wednesday night in Portsmouth, Trump continued with his riff on the test, seeming to wholly invent another hypothetical question.

The irony about the whole age debate is that Biden is a good weight, eats a healthy diet, and has all of his marbles. The stammer occasionally rears it's head to make some of his speech halting, but he's the one people worry about? They can't see past the mess of Trump's pancake makeup and hair gel.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 20 Jan 24 - 11:00 AM

Apropos of cognitive functioning:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-aced-cognitive-test-incorrectly-051229367.html

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jan 24 - 08:22 AM

My opinion is that while Trump is exceedingly stupid he knows that a lie does not have to be good or believable but merely denounces someone else.
The more he is castigated for his lies, the more grievance points he believes he has. It's the old bad press is good press by staying in the news.