BS: Washington Post breaking news

Subject: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Dec 16 - 10:22 PM

Collusion to undermine USA by Russia, Senate and R House

McConnel knew and insisted upon silence.

Partisanship trumps treason.

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Dec 16 - 10:37 PM

That link doesn't work, and I used up my free access trying to find the right article (now I have to get rid of their cookies and start over for the month).

Try this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-orders-review-of-russian-hacking-during-presidential-campaign/

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Dec 16 - 04:51 AM

Every country to a larger or smaller extent engages in this.
The CIA have been involved in destabilising nations all over the world, or so we have been told for the last fifty years.

I doubt the veracity of this particular claim, but I am sure Mr Putin would rather see someone who is prepared to engage with him as US president, than someone who wanted to take us back into the Cold War

We in the West are extremely fortunate that Mr Trump and not Mrs Clinton was elected...from a foreign affairs perspective.
The domestic situation is for the US people alone to determine.

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Stu
Date: 10 Dec 16 - 07:29 AM

"I doubt the veracity of this particular claim"

You've been 'ad me old china. Stitched up like a kipper (geddit?)

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Dec 16 - 12:37 PM

When $ became free speech, when elections are decided by Courts and the Citizens United case allowed foreign $ to be used in super PACs the stage was set for no holds barred from crooked elections.

No one doubts the results of the election will not change but what I as an American will call a Constitutional Crises are all the Senators and representatives who willingly support Russian covert actions because they liked the result. Can we prove treason? Only if can prove who knew what and when did they know it - and that is nearly impossible.

Comey knew about the Russians efforts hacking only Democrats. All the Intelligence agencies knew for 6 months but Trump throws them under the bus and does not believe or trusts them.

A now dismissed trump campaign manager dealt exclusively with Russian business.

I always used to think Republicans were knee jerk anti communists but when money is at stake anything goes.

Is this a lessor form of treason or worse?
I don't know and once Trump takes power, no one will again.

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Dec 16 - 12:56 PM

We are technically in a government shutdown until Sunday night, this time due to democratic party demands.

But what if the vote does not go the way of Dem Demands?
Could the shut down extend through the Inauguration?

Probably not but shut downs have gone wrong ( or right for insane partisan reasons ) before.


PS There are now Trump transition managers going around and taking names of scientists who hold views on climate change and other anti Trump views. This is how a purge begins.

"there's a man goin round takin names"

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Dec 16 - 01:47 PM

"Every country to a larger or smaller extent engages in this."
For **** sake - not more off this
Russia has hacked into Hilary Clinton's emails and used them as a spoiler to ruin her chances
Where has this ever happened anywhare?
"I doubt the veracity of this particular claim,"
Course yo do - your hero got elected
"e in the West are extremely fortunate that Mr Trump and not Mrs Clinton was elected"
And there you said it all
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Thompson
Date: 10 Dec 16 - 02:48 PM

Anti-communist? Russia hasn't been communist for a long time.

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Dec 16 - 03:17 PM

Wonder if anybody in the U.S. to demand that this election be fought again?
I woulde have thought that foreign interference should make it invalid - it would be in a democracy
Maybe the u.S. will be faced by a Trump led coup, supported on the ground by the Ku Klux Klan and in the air by the Russian air-force.
Time to send for Bruce Willis, I think.....
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Dec 16 - 05:02 PM

"e in the West are extremely fortunate that Mr Trump and not Mrs Clinton was elected"
And there you said it all
Jim Carroll.

No you devious person, what I actually said was.... "We in the West are extremely fortunate that Mr Trump and not Mrs Clinton was elected...from a foreign affairs perspective.
The domestic situation is for the US people alone to determine."
If you wish to quote me please do not amend my words to suit your agenda.


You also know very well the mayhem the CIA has been sowing throughout the world in our lifetime......these people lie and assassinate as a matter of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: bobad
Date: 10 Dec 16 - 05:54 PM

Of this, what The Daily Beast says, you can be sure:

"If the CIA had hacked and steered a democratic election in a foreign country, say France or Germany, that country would demand a new election. No question."

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: bobad
Date: 10 Dec 16 - 06:55 PM

And now comes Trump's payoff to Putin:

Thumbing Nose at Alleged Kremlin Debt, Trump Picks Putin's Pal as Secretary of State

You have to be impressed by Donald Trump's brazenness. Less than 24 hours after the sensational Washington Post report that Russia tried to tilt the elections in his favor, Trump's response is unequivocal and in the world's face: he announces that his candidate for Secretary of State is Rex Tillerson, CEO of oil giant ExxonMobil and the man considered to be the closest American alive to Vladimir Putin. "He's done tremendous deals with Russia," Trump told Fox News on Saturday, without batting an eyelid.

Haaretz

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: bobad
Date: 10 Dec 16 - 07:04 PM

Yep, THIS says it all.

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Dec 16 - 08:07 PM

Rex of Exxon opened up the Gulf of Mexico and artic open water that Russia annexed anyway with an American blessing/money.

For this he was awarded the highest civilian Russian medal personally by Putin. Before then the award has only gone to 2 American naval commanders for saving Russian mini sub and Russian citizens for being heroes.



While Trump and Putin will NEVER be seen together because Putin looks like a shirtless Smurf that comes up to Donald's elbow / armpit, there is a stranger connection.

The Putin connection to Trump is sounding more like a coup than mere brashness.



With Giuliani as CIA director investigations will all go away.

I was always immune to the red scare and kids here are too young to know but the RED SCARE today are American Congressmen and Senators.








PS unrelated: the father of the Koch brothers made a fortune by engineering and managing Russian oil fields for....wait for it
....Stalin.

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 04:23 AM

All elections are manipulated to some extent.
Jed Bush was in charge of the system in Florida and his brother won with a doubt about Florida.
What I saw of the choices of ballot paper, it was chosen to confuse and favour those familiar with voting. It worked to, Dubya got in by the skin of a hanging chad.

Did Russia interfere?
When they poison Georgian presidential hopefuls, annex Crimea and kill people in the UK they don't like - how much of a stretch is it to meddle in -
(oh what is the word for covertly spreading lies and deceit?)
there isn't a word that fits

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Stu
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 04:32 AM

Some people seem to have been outright traitorous in this whole business. What we're witnessing is the final corporate takeover of a massive democracy, backed by Russia.

Just goes to prove that all those folk with all their guns and bellicosity could not stop their democracy being hijacked by a foreign power intent on installing pliable billionaires and a gaggle-taggle band of racists, climate deniers and idiots in all the positions that might otherwise be occupied by people whom, for all their faults, have given their lives over to public service.

How the GOP can let this happen is unbelievable; how has the alt-right managed this?

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 04:39 AM

Two countries have now recently been exposed interfering in another country's Russia in America's (see the Labour Party discussion for the other)
Of course the CIA and MI5 have been long-term offenders - it seems to be a growing trend
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 04:48 AM

For all the concerns about the appointments, there is built into the American system limits in both the duration of a presidency and in the number of consecutive times you can be president.

The trouble really comes to a head when these rules get amended or the powers associated with roles are changed. Now where can I think of that has happened ....

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 11:30 AM

It was not Russia that lost Mrs Clinton the election, it was her irresponsible behaviour in office and the corrupt practices of the Democratic Party.
The demise of US capitalism and the rise of globalism left a huge sector of US society wanting change.

They have it and good luck to Mr Trump, but it will be extremely difficult to regenerate US industry.
If Mr Trump fails the future looks bleak for there is no alternative.

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 12:18 PM

It was Russia, get over it.

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 12:46 PM

a huge sector of US society wanting change.

Rather like Germany in the 1930's, Ache?

good luck to Mr Trump,

SIEG HEIL!!    HEIL TRUMP!

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 12:48 PM

"It was Russia, get over it."
Of course it was - would the American people really be that stupid?
"They have it and good luck to Mr Trump,"
Doesn't that just about sum up this feller's political position?
I do like the MR TRUMP - real cap-doffing subservience of someone who knows his place
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 12:50 PM

You're right, it was not Russia that lost Mrs. Clinton the election. Despite the Russians best efforts, almost three million more people voted for Mrs. Clinton than Mr. Trump.

What lost Mrs Clinton the election was an antiquated system of choosing the US president: a system that was written into The Constitution largely because of a belief that educated electors would be less likely to hand the reins of power to an unqualified demagogue than would direct election by the unwashed masses. Worked real well, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: bobad
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 03:13 PM

Came across this tweet - it gave me a good laugh:

I'm disappointed in Sarah Palin more than any other human being.
She saw what Russia was doing from her backyard and chose to do nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: bobad
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 04:58 PM

From Janis Ian, some interesting facts to consider here:

This post is in two parts. I don't care what your politics are; everyone in this country should be concerned about cyber security, and everybody should be concerned when the president-elect buddies up to the former head of the KGB. It's beginning to make sense now.

1. In case you haven't connected the news dots... Putin owns the largest oil company in Russia. He made a 500 Billion dollar deal with the CEO of Exxon Mobil. Obama put sanctions in place which stopped that deal. Russia then hacked into our government in order to get Trump elected. When the CIA told Congress this in September (James Comey was also in that meeting), Mitch McConnell refused to tell the American people, blackmailing Obama saying he would frame it as playing partisan politics during the election. Comey released the infamous no-information letter. Mitch McConnell's wife was picked for Trump's cabinet. The CEO of Exxon is now the frontrunner for Secretary of State.

2. From the NY Times (full URL below):
He (Trump) also indicated that as president, he would not take the daily intelligence briefing that President Obama and his predecessors have received. Mr. Trump, who has received the briefing sparingly as president-elect, said that it was often repetitive and that he would take it "when I need it." He said his vice president, Mike Pence, would receive the daily briefing.

"You know, I'm, like, a smart person," he said. "I don't have to be told the same thing in the same words every single day for the next eight years."

He added that he had instructed the officials who give the briefing: "'If something should change from this point, immediately call me. I'm available on a one-minute's notice.'"

http://www.nytimes.com/…/polit…/trump-russia-democrats.html

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 05:47 PM

"What lost Mrs Clinton the election was an antiquated system of choosing the US president: a system that was written into The Constitution largely because of a belief that educated electors would be less likely to hand the reins of power to an unqualified demagogue than would direct election by the unwashed masses. Worked real well, huh? "....... The only problem with that statement BWL is that early on when Mrs Clinton looked like she might actually win the election, the Electoral College was seen by most Democrats as her "trump" card.

Didn't hear much moaning about it on Mudcat at that time?

The rest of you are just whingers, I would have voted for Mr Sanders had I been a US citizen, but he was cheated by his own Party. Mrs Clinton would have brought us into immediate confrontation with Russia over a proposed Syrian "No Fly Zone" so no sane or politically aware person could have contemplated giving her their vote.

Perhaps an isolationist administration based on free trade may reverse the decline in US and most Western economies...It's worth a chance. As Mr Trump famously said "what do you have to lose"

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 06:27 PM

I recall a couple years back when Transcript leaked re: Ukraine and U.S. State Department cropped up and I submit from the Russian point of view the U.S. encroached on their perceived sphere of interest. The Russians were already peeved at Ukraine moving toward Europe politically.
The average Russian is probably all set to approve of any hacking or screwing with American politics. No sympathy there.
A good journalist to follow on these matters is Masha Gesson .

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: bobad
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 07:15 PM

Former CIA Operative Robert Baer brought up the idea of holding a new election during an appearance on CNN:

Baer said, "The Russians, it looks like to me did interfere in our elections. We'll never be able to decide whether they changed the outcome, but I'll tell you having worked in the CIA if we had been caught interfering in European elections, or Asian elections, or anywhere in the world, those countries would call for new elections. Any democracy would. I mean, I don't see it any other way. The Electoral College before the nineteenth has got to know whether the Russians had an effect, Whether they went to Wikileaks, whether they hacked email, and whether they affected American opinion. They had a good reason to go after Hillary Clinton. Putin hates her for the Ukraine.

Baer added, "When a foreign country interferes in your election and the outcome is in doubt and the legitimacy of the government. I don't know how it works constitutionally. I'm not a lawyer, constitutional lawyer, but I'm deeply disturbed by the fact that the Russians interfered, and I would like to see the evidence, because if the evidence is there, I don't see any other way than to vote again."

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 08:11 PM

Heil Trump!

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 08:25 PM

Heil Trump

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 09:50 PM

This has been a post I have hesitated to make for about a year. For about a year a new cable TV news channel appeared in the DC area.
It has been around for 20 years but has had a huge surge in money and distribution since the primaries.

It broadcasts mostly Hitler documentaries. Anti Muslim brotherhood shows and bio war videos. What is most shocking is who is behind Newsmax. Some are from the UK, some are Russian but all are Alt Right.

It is best to google who owns newsmax but here is a Wiki link


Right wing extreme TV

War is their policy. Corporate fascism is their vehicle.

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Stu
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 05:44 AM

"As Mr Trump famously said "what do you have to lose"

If you have to ask the question you wouldn't understand the answer.

Subject: RE: BS:Corporations won election NOT Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 08:49 AM

Corporations don't owe the American people a damn thing unless we are on the board. All Trump knows how to do besides bully, is how to cut out the middle man. - YUR FIRED- We can now see clearly that we have only elected Corporations DIRECTLY.

Wall St. the military and big Oil is the Cabinet. All hail the Military Industrial Complex. Eisenhower coined the term Congressional Military Industrial Complex. Today Congress only has experience in doing nothing well !

Trump is not unpredictable, we all know what Corporations and Wall St. want.

John Mc Cain will not win any battles against Caesar. He too will be bullied and fade away.

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 10:00 AM

"Corporations don't owe the American people a damn thing unless we are on the board."
So true, anyone who thinks Trump is going to roll back the tide of globalism and keep jobs in America is seriously delusional, like the boneheads who voted for him. Big internationals go where they can make the most money period, that is what capitalists do and what Herr Trump himself does. He'll give lip service to protectionism but he'll never get the support of Congress in that regard and American workers won't work for the wages that those reclaimed jobs would pay.

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Stu
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 10:17 AM

This is the corporate takeover of government; billionaires running a country for their own personal gain, even allowing foreign governments to interfere in the democratic process. They'll have to invent a new name for this type of governance. Sod it, I'll do it:

Corporate authoritarianism.

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 12:01 PM

gilly, stu (sounds delicious)


This is 5 minutes old.

From Trump Tower-

China has now been called our ADVERSARY and
Russia has been called our Ally.

Trump doesn't want to hear from the CIA

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: meself
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 12:37 PM

Trump and the Chinese leadership deserve each other. Unfortunately, it will be the rest of us and them that pay the price for their ambitions.

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: bobad
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 08:33 AM

Another dict...er president, Erdogan of Turkey, is playing Trump like a fish on the line.

Story here: Turkey's blackmail of Trump

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Stu
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 10:17 AM

Rex 'not in my backyard' Tillerson, ExxonMobil CEO as Secretary of State. A man whose company not only lied about climate change when they had proof it was happening, but also reconfigured their multinational business to take advantage of the air of science denial, misleading gullible investors own the process.

Oh, Tillerson is right up the arse of Putin too. What a coincidence!

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: bobad
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 10:34 AM

Exxon has a $500 billion deal in Russia on the shelf due to sanctions imposed by the US for Putin's adventures in Crimea and Ukraine. Gee, do you think those sanctions will be lifted by "President" Trump on the advice of his Secretary of State?

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 02:47 PM

+For all you white nationalists over in the UK you have a partner in Trump Putin and their media machine of the Times, NewsMax, RT and more.

Trump automatically defends Russia to the point of calling the CIA and other American agencies full of crap. A generation go the CIA did miss the end of the cold war. They did hire know nothings to start a torture program for Cheney Bush.

Now that the CIA has been condemned by Trump is there any hope of reconciliation?

Just like retiring MI5, this is weird.

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 05:45 PM

The CIA should have been scrapped years ago, maybe Mr Trump IS the Messiah?
Certainly making trade deals is much better than making WAR.

US interventionism has cost millions of lives, most of it promoted covertly by the CIA. It has destabilised all of the Middle East and most of North Africa, not to mention the business in Latin America.
As I said earlier the world has changed, there is no Cold War between political ideologies, the working class are no more, fragmented and disillusioned, the fight now is against Global Capitalism and that is an issue that left right and centre can unite against.
Time you people wakened and realised that like Rip Van Winkle you have been asleep for decades.

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 07:48 PM

I will answer your stupid question. Sigh. No, Trump is not Jewish. He does however worship $.

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 08:13 PM

"From: Donuel - PM
Date: 10 Dec 16 - 12:37 PM

When $ became free speech, when elections are decided by Courts and the Citizens United case allowed foreign $ to be used in super PACs the stage was set for no holds barred from crooked elections.

No one doubts the results of the election will not change but what I as an American will call a Constitutional Crises are all the Senators and representatives who willingly support Russian covert actions because they liked the result. Can we prove treason? Only if can prove who knew what and when did they know it - and that is nearly impossible.

Comey knew about the Russians efforts hacking only Democrats. All the Intelligence agencies knew for 6 months but Trump throws them under the bus and does not believe or trusts them."

some of the info above is only now legally declassified.




I admit American regime change is far bloodier than hacked email with dubious interpretation before an election.

"To win an election it is not who has the most votes, its who counts the votes."
Vladimir Putin

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Dec 16 - 04:30 AM

"The CIA should have been scrapped years ago, "
Can agree with that but almost certainly not for the same reason as you.
I believe them to be an unregulated terrorist organisation there to ascertain that American interests prevail throughout the world - you, I am sure, are pissed off because they've done their job properly this time in blowing the gaff on your friend Trump
Trade deals can be as oppressive as war - and even the cause of them.
Mutual humanitarian assistance and full co-operation is what is needed - we quite possibly wouldn't be watching the bloodbath that is happening in Alleppo as spectators and doing nothing if we had that.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Stu
Date: 14 Dec 16 - 04:36 AM

"the fight now is against Global Capitalism and that is an issue that left right and centre can unite against."

But you support Trump, and he represents the worst in global capitalism and is turning the US into a corporate authoritarian state with help from the Russians. How could the left support this?

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Dec 16 - 05:58 AM

Ake got it about half right, Trump is a Mess.

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 16 - 09:01 AM

First my condolences go out to the State Department, EPA, Energy, Education HUD , CIA, Interior HHS and the NIH.

Second my condolences to all the scientists who will be purged by rumor and prior work with climate change and other issues that conservatives deem unreligious.

As I have said the Government is structured to prevent private sweetheart deals. I suggest civil servants keep their had down and cooperate with trusted Justice Dept Constitutional patriots.

NO ONE is talking about what is on the horizon.

By this Valentines day the Putin Trump alliance will be exposed by a move by Putin and Trump hamstring NATO or by stand down orders.
You may think my claims are over the top, but Trump is already compromised.

I am not anti Russian in fact I think they deserve their wish to finally have a warm water port in Crimea. The way it is done matters.

Having the POTUS literally sell out to Putin for personal profit is not the way it should be done.


The actors are in play, only the timing is unsure.

What Russia wants is high oil prices. They are beginning to already get that. No more sanctions and annexed territory is next.

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 16 - 09:03 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/07/ukraine-russia-crimea-naval-base-tatars-explainer

Subject: RE: BS: Washington Post breaking news
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 16 - 09:31 AM

"By this Valentines day Putin will make a big move and Trump's alliance with Putin will be exposed by a move by Putin while Trump will react by hamstringing NATO or by simply giving stand down orders through the summer.
You may think my claims are over the top, but Trump is already compromised by Putin espionage."


This is the kind of prediction conservatives should attack.
I wish they would but loyalty to Trump may outrank loyalty to the nation yet again. If you don't get it, just chalk it up to psychic nonsense.