BS: My last thread about Obamateering

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: CarolC
Date: 06 May 08 - 10:17 PM

Woo Hoo!!!!


A good night in North Carolina for Obama. I'm proud of my state tonight.

Chief Chaos, I'll tell you about someone we met tonight. And this is why Obama has a better chance of winning against McCain in the fall. We attended the party for Obama campaign workers tonight, and we were sitting next to a man who has been a registered Republican all his life. He has always voted for Republican candidates in presidential elections. This man re-registered as a Democrat just so he could vote for Barack Obama in the North Carolina primary. There are a lot of Republicans who feel as this man does. Hillary can't attract that kind of voter. She's too hated by Republicans.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 May 08 - 10:24 PM

We just got back from watching Barack's speech with the other volunteers at the Wilmington Hilton. It was a hoot and it gave us a chance to say goodbye to the young organizers who came from all over the country to help with this hard earned victory.

We had a very eventful day. Two trips around the neighborhood reminding folks to vote. We brought a legally blind man to the polls. Carol read his choices and filled out his ballot for him. Then he told us he was going to walk a few miles to the eye clinic. We brought him there. He probably walked back. He said he remembered the area from when he was a boy and that he knows a safe route,

Wonderful day! Wonderful results! Sleep will be sweet tonight.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 May 08 - 10:25 PM

I second Amos. You--Carol and Jack--have earned the joy of it. And the rest of us owe you a huge debt of gratitude.

It seems clear Obama wins NC by about 16% and only loses to Hillary by about 4% in IN. That means he extends his delegate lead by about 20 tonight. And that's before any superdelegates officially declare for him.

Now more superdelegates will come to him. And if we're lucky, her funding will dry up. It won't matter how stubborn she and her last die-hards plan to be---without funding she will have no choice but to bow out. So this contest may well end before June---if the moneymen (and moneywomen, of course) get tired of throwing their money down a rathole. The only question now is when that will happen. I suspect John Q and Jane Q Public will reach this conclusion sooner rather than later. And the big money may even get there first.

She was the obvious and presumed nominee last year. And she's been outmaneuvered in political strategy--especially the realization of the significance of caucus states-- and outdone in fundraising by the Obama campaign, which realized the power of the Net both to raise huge amounts and to give huge numbers of ordinary citizens a stake in Obama's success. And on top of that Team Clinton has shot itself in the foot innumerable times--and run a needlessly relentlessly negative campaign, which has further lessened her appeal. A tip of the hat should also certainly go to Bill Clinton, who has shown himself totally clueless at crucial times.

It's also obvious that when Hillary finally draws the obvious conclusion and ends her campaign-- (no doubt, with a gallant concession speech)-- she and Bill can help Obama mightily in the campaign against McCain.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 06 May 08 - 10:27 PM

Never figured there would be a Republican voting for her in the first place, but I still can't understand anyone who doesn't like the way things are going either not voting (should she become the candidate) or voting for McCain rather than voting for her. It's like throwing the baby out with the bath water. I don't like any of the choices really but I'll be voting.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 May 08 - 10:29 PM

Congratulations to you again, Jack and Carol! Magnificent and heartwarming at the same time.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 May 08 - 10:29 PM

I wouldn't count on too much help from the Clintons. They have their own fish to fry. It would be nice, though, if they could deliver Arkansas. But I also don't think it will be needed. The issues are too important and the contrast too great.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: CarolC
Date: 06 May 08 - 10:34 PM

Chief Chaos, the guy we were talking to tonight said that if Hillary is the nominee, he's going to vote for McCain.

Thanks, Ron (and also Amos).

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 May 08 - 10:36 PM

Actually Jack, don't belittle Bill too much. He especially (Hillary to a lesser extent) really connects with blue-collar voters--and would be a very useful adjunct to Obama's campaign.
She also will be useful in enlisting her own core supporters to support Obama--those who don't already realize the importance of issues like the Supreme Court.

And thanks to Obama's refusal, in large part, to play the gutter-politics Hillary seems to thrive on, it will be relatively easy to enlist the Clintons in Obama's campaign. Added to which, Bill would, no doubt, like to salvage part of his good reputation--and Hillary wants to preserve her options for the future.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 06 May 08 - 10:39 PM

Carol,

Aside from the way she has been portrayed in the media, and by the way, if a guy acted that way he'd be considered the perfect candidate, I haven't had anyone explain why it is they hate her so.

Besides, I wouldn't count on that guy being the sterling example if he has just now decided to become a Democrat after voting for GWB twice!

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 06 May 08 - 10:40 PM

Hate to dump on DougR, 'cause I am also a big fan of red wine, and spend a lot of enjoyable time in Az, but I must point out (relative to his previous predictions) regarding our next POTUS; he also predicted that there would be no invasion of Iraq, and that the allegations of toruture at Abu Ghraib were "horsepucky". I will be delighted if his consistency holds.

( Love ya anyhow Doug :) , and I still remember our wonderful and rare moment of agreement on how the Supreme Court works ! )

OOOOOOOOOObama!

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 May 08 - 10:43 PM

Chief Chaos--

The main reason so many Obama supporters would likely not vote at all for president--or just write in Obama -fewer would vote for McCain--if Hillary were the nominee, is the relentlessly negative campaign she has run. Rather than make her own case, she has tried to drag Obama down. Many of us don't appreciate that--and were not about to seamlessly switch to her if she were the nominee.

His campaign has been far more positive--making it easier for her supporters to come over to him.

She shot herself in the foot--and kept shooting.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 06 May 08 - 10:47 PM

True, Her campaign has been negative, but that's politics regardless of how we'd like to see it change. You'd really give the election to McCain rather than vote for her?

From my point of view that seems to be the sore loser strategy!
Lots of folks see no real difference between Hillary and Obama (I'm not one of them) but There are worlds of difference between Hillary and McCain. Continuing the legacy of the current administration would be a terrible thing to do just becuase of personal dislike.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 06 May 08 - 10:50 PM

Sadly, I agree completely with Chief Chaos. I will have to hold my nose, but a whiff of pooh is better than a snorkel in the      pond.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: CarolC
Date: 06 May 08 - 10:51 PM

Chief Chaos, none of them has ever been able to explain it to me, either, but their hatred is very real, and also very, very visceral. The guy we talked to tonight also predicted that if Hillary is the nominee, Republicans will have a massive turnout to vote against her in the fall... something that both JtS and I have been saying for a while now.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 06 May 08 - 10:55 PM

I reiterate: There will be a massive turn out of the Republican side regardless of who the candidate is if they hope at all to win! They have carefully orchestrated things to influence the election from both sides ever since McCain pretty much became the defacto candidate. They're probably the reason that Hillary and Obama are the only two left instead of having just one candidate.

Also a reiteration: They'll let the two beat each other up while McCain runs on his own!

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 May 08 - 11:01 PM

She has alienated lots of people--bigtime.    Many people--even some left-of-center Mudcatters--have already noted McCain is independent in many ways--(which will kill him with his own base, fortunately for Obama--and is not in fact a carbon copy of GWB). Although that will be the theme of the fall campaign, which will be a smash success on that basis.

It doesn't help when you feel you can't trust her--to do anything, but feather her own nest.

It makes you consider giving up on the political process. Fortunately, we won't have to wrestle with this issue, since Obama will be the nominee.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: CarolC
Date: 06 May 08 - 11:01 PM

I guess the point I am trying to make is that, based on what a lot of Republicans have told us, there won't be as many Republicans who will care whether or not a Republican is elected this time if Obama is the nominee as there will be if Hillary is the nominee.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 06 May 08 - 11:05 PM

CarolC is quite correct. In fact, if Hillary is the nominee, it will be because myriad Republicans (at the request of the despicable Limbaugh) have switched parties specifically to vote for her to set up a McCain-Clinton race in the fall. They (and Limbaugh, and CarolC) know that there will be a massive Republican turnout just to vote against a Clinton - especially the dreaded Hillary. I am amazed that Hillary has not denounced, nor said anything, about "operation chaos". She seems happy to silently "benefit" from it. Clearly her own personal ambitions are more important than the true will of the people, or the best interests of her party, and Americans in general. The "vast right wing conspiracy" is apparently not such a problem if it serves her short term goals.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 May 08 - 11:17 PM

"There will be a huge turnout of Republicans for McCain." Not necessarily.

1)    You wouldn't believe the white-hot passion against him, by the Tancredo true-believers, for his stand on illegal immigration. Some even call him "Juan" McCain. This puts him in a no-win bind. Either he gives in to them, and insists on no progress on immigration until the borders are "secured". In which case he gets very few Hispanic votes--certainly out West. And consider that Bush got about 40% of the Hispanic votes in 2004--which more than made the difference in a very close election.

Or he insists on consideration of a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants--in which case the Tancredo (and Rig) fire-eaters stay home on election day.

2) Anybody against the Iraq war will vote against McCain. This includes some Republicans--how many I don't know--but I know one.

3) Obama's message of post-partisanship resonates with lots of voters--including some Republicans.

4) Most importantly, the Republican turnout will not be the determining factor. The decisive factor will be the independent vote--which is growing faster than the parties--and which will support Obama lopsidedly, aside from pro-Iraq war independents, of course.



McCain's most serious problem is that his own base will not allow him to propose what the country needs--whether an end to the Iraq war or help for pressured middle-class and lower-class voters that goes beyond "market-based solutions".

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: CarolC
Date: 06 May 08 - 11:20 PM

I should also point out that the guy we were talking to tonight didn't just vote for Obama. He also was a volunteer in Obama's campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 May 08 - 11:26 PM

It's certainly true, as I and others have noted earlier more than once, that picking Hillary as the nominee is the only sure-fire way to get a huge turnout of Republicans--united against her--both for her own record and as a result of continuing bitterness (dare I say it?) against Bill Clinton.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 May 08 - 12:07 AM

If Hillary runs, the BUSH base will show up to vote against her. If Obama runs, they won't care nearly as much and will probably stay home.

I did not think that the Clintons were motivated. But her speech tonight was nearly a concession speech. And the thanks to Russert and Chuck Todd I now have the idea in my head that the Clintons could undo a lot of the damage they have done to their legacies by working their Butts off to get the first black President elected. If the Clintons go all out, they CAN make a real difference.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 May 08 - 12:09 AM

By the way, with NC in the bag, watching the Hillary lead in Indiana shrink to next to nothing is pretty sweet!

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 07 May 08 - 12:09 AM

Amen!

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 May 08 - 12:18 AM

Are you ever so tired from work that has paid off that the exhaustion feels sweet?

We probably got out about six or seven votes out that would not have happened without us.
Its a few drops in the ocean compared to a million and a half votes, but it still seems sweet!.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 May 08 - 12:32 AM

Clarification,

I did not think the Clintons had any real motivation to help Obama.

Now I do.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: DannyC
Date: 07 May 08 - 09:13 AM

Way to go Jack!!!    Hopefully we'll now all be able to turn our efforts towards the Republicans...   we're hoping to retire the Bush man Mitch McConnell here.

Regrettably the Clintons are still sword rattling this AM... sad development.    If she stays in --- please consider coming up to help us in Kentucky.   I understand there's loads of volunteers headed our way. Please PM me if you will consider this or link here:

http://ky.barackobama.com/kyvolunteer

Congrats and thanks again,

Danny

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 May 08 - 09:58 AM

" We brought a legally blind man to the polls. Carol read his choices and filled out his ballot for him."


Gee, I wonder who he voted for...

Aren't there either facilities for blind voters or NEUTRAL parties to help them?

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: CarolC
Date: 07 May 08 - 11:56 AM

Are you suggesting that I filled out his ballot fraudulently, beardedbruce? If you are, I think you are stooping very, very low indeed. I've seen some incredibly cheap shots coming from you over the years, but that one wins the prize.

By the way, we did ask if there was any facility for someone like him and there wasn't. I figured the poll worker would be the one who would fill it out for him, but she said only someone who was with him (someone he knew) could do it.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 May 08 - 12:06 PM

Bringing people to the polling place and filling out thier ballots fopr them seems a little too much like the stories of Tamanny Hall.... round up a bunch of drunks, bus them to the polls, then wait for your own people to count the votes.

I had thought even the Democratic Party was more subtle than that, these days.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 May 08 - 12:09 PM

Bruce, you have said some stupid things here but this takes the cake. We were going around asking people if they wanted a ride to the polls so that they could vote for Obama. Who do you think he wanted to vote for?

There was a poll person right there to watch the process who said to him. He cannot read braile, he has only been this blind for a remativemy short while. The poll person said "I am not legally allowed to help you, but if you have someone with you who is willing, they can." I guess this must be some sort of pro forma question because Carol was standing right next to her and he was in the car next to me. He then said " Can these people help me?" and the lady said "Yes of course"
He than said "Put me down for Obama"

Carol then read out the other choices without in any way indicating who she preferred, from what she had told me before, her down ballot was much different than his.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 May 08 - 12:10 PM

Bruce,

One dumb thing after another?

It was State polling station.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: CarolC
Date: 07 May 08 - 12:13 PM

Beardedbruce, you are a very small man.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 May 08 - 12:15 PM

"We were going around asking people if they wanted a ride to the polls so that they could vote for Obama."

OK, that makes it ok. Let those other voters stay home... Make sure the people who vote are voting for the "right" person.


It would have been far better ( and more in keeping with "democratic" (lower case) principles) had you just asked if ANYONE needed a ride to the polls.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 May 08 - 12:16 PM

No.

I just want to have the vote represent the people's desire, and NOT just YOURS.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: CarolC
Date: 07 May 08 - 12:22 PM

We were asked to take this man to the polls by a friend of his, Bruce. You are a very small man, because I am not a stranger to you and you have accused me of committing a crime for political reasons.

Personally I think you go around stalking and molesting women. Your many hundreds of sonnets about unrequited love suggest to me that you have a pathological obsession with women who don't love you, and that you wouldn't take "no" for an answer.

Ok, now disprove that.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 May 08 - 12:28 PM

>>"We were going around asking people if they wanted a ride to the polls so that they could vote for Obama."

OK, that makes it ok. Let those other voters stay home.<<

Yes Bruce, its called democracy. But people who wanted a ride and supported other campaigns could have called one of several local organizations and rode for free. As it happens, this gentleman wanted to go with us and vote for Obama.

By the way your Man, McCain, LOST 24% of Republican votes in this state. Pretty pathetic for a "presumptive nominee" with no official opposition other than Ron Paul. NC could turn blue in the fall!

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 May 08 - 01:09 PM

And Obama lost HOW many of the votes in NC? I think a few more than 24%



"According to early exit polls, half of Clinton's supporters in Indiana would not vote for Obama in a general election matchup with Sen. John McCain, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee. Watch what the exit polls show »

A third of Clinton voters said they would pick McCain over Obama, while 17 percent said they would not vote at all. Forty-eight percent of Clinton supporters said they would back Obama in November.

Obama got even less support from Clinton backers in North Carolina, where 45 percent of Clinton supporters said they would vote for him over McCain. Thirty-eight percent of Clinton supporters said they would vote for McCain while 12 percent said they would not vote."

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 May 08 - 01:11 PM

CarolC

How can I disprove you? That IS what you think- YOU are one of the few around here who likes to tell others how (and why) others are thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: Amos
Date: 07 May 08 - 02:04 PM

Oranges an apples; Barack was running against a popular opponent, while McCain had the field to himself. That was the point. Why twist it?


A

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: CarolC
Date: 07 May 08 - 02:46 PM

I've had enough of you, beardedbruce. You've shown me your true colors here in this thread. I used to think of you as a friend, but I don't any more. (You and M. Ted both.)

Subject: RE: BS: My last thread about Obamateering
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 May 08 - 07:44 PM

IN New Hanover (Our county) Obama 57 % Hillary 41%

Yeeee Haw!!