Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Hollowfox
Date: 27 Jul 00 - 05:15 PM

McGrath, I'd have liked the Bakshi one as well, except that it fell into the language trap that I dispise the most...bad teeth and poor diction for the servant class. Every time I remember Sam Gamgee saying something like "Coming, Mifter Phrodo!", I get mad again. Naemanson, you're not alone, my daughter (my boys too, actually) are well acquainted with various Otherworlds, and are probably more comfortable there, socially speaking, than they are in mundane places, like school.

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Tracey Dragonsfriend
Date: 28 Jul 00 - 04:49 AM

Maybe you'd be interested in this - a discussion that the website Mbo mentioned - TheOneRing - are having this weekend. Check out the link in the message above. This is the topic under discussion :

Hall of Fire Topic For the Weekend! - Tookish @ 19:55 PST

Here comes the latest from the Hall of Fire topic think tank:

Music and Middle-earth

From its creation down to the last chapter of Middle-earth's history, music is a powerful and significant presence in the writing of J.R.R. Tolkien. Music and song is a common theme not only to the passage of time in Arda, but also to all the peoples of Middle-earth. We find singing orcs, hobbits, dwarves, goblins, ents, elves, humans, gods, and demi-gods. I'll wager Sauron himself hummed a dark ditty as he crafted the One Ring at Mount Doom.

What does Tolkien achieve and evoke with all of this music and song? How is music used as metaphore, image, emotion, magic, or even substance? What resonnates with you and the music of Middle-earth?

On another note, do you ever listen to music while reading Tolkien? What kind and by whom? I have spoken with many people who enjoy playing a favorite composer as they read The Professor.

There are many bands who have been inspired by JRRT; one famous example is Led Zeppelin's Misty Mountain Hop, and Barliman's chatroom old timer Mongvar's favorite Blind Guardian. Enjoy any of that? Have you ever written any LotR-inspired music or lyrics?

We'll also explore music in Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings adaptation. The mucic on New Line's internet preview certainly caused a stir; what are your comments? What are you looking for in the score of the movies themselves? Do you want to see poems and songs from the text, or would you prefer they were left out? What appeals to you, a Braveheart-type score or something with more a more robust, operatic lean? Or perhaps you'd like to see something more modern, like the soundtrack to the film The Matrix.

Warm up those fingers and vocal cords and come join the throng. This chat is scheduled for Saturday, July 29, at 5:30 p.m. EDT [10:30 p.m. GMT]. If this time doesn't work for you, come to our European-time session, which is on Sunday, July 30, at 6:00 p.m. GMT [7:00 p.m. Central Europe Time and 1:00 p.m. EDT].

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Jul 00 - 04:55 PM

I have posted this before, but you did ask... I first read the book whilst listening to 'Wee Tam and the Big Huge', by The Incredible String Band.

The two are now forever and inextricably linked in my mind. A little bit of best South-Farthing, Longbottom Leaf helped a little too. For I was a little partial to the old pipe-weed in my youth.

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 01 - 12:28 PM

The official web site is now up, and I'm very interested to hear some reaction:

Lord Of The Rings

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 16 Jan 01 - 01:02 PM

As a confirmed Tolkien-head, it is with trembling fear and loathing that I state that I will see at least the first section of this movie. I was burned by the 70s version, and have a very low opinion of movie versions of good books in general, based on my experience. But LotR is such a great book that I cannot refrain from giving this version a chance. But the word of the radical surgery being done on the plot does not predispose me in its favor.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Greyeyes
Date: 16 Jan 01 - 04:57 PM

I find different fan's reactions to this fascinating. Either there won't be a film, or it will be significantly different to the books. There is no middle way.

The BBC radio adaptation in the '80s was brilliant, but it sliced the book to pieces if you're a Tolkien scholar. It left out Bombadil, for a start, many people's favourite character. But much of the original text, including large chunks of dialogue, were left untouched. Overall the balance was right and it was an exeptional piece of radio drama.

I too am concerned about the Arwen as warrior princess development, but overall I'm relatively confident the project is in good hands. If someone like Matt R feels the same way I am even more reassured.

A few years ago the BBC adapted Martin Chuzzlewit for TV. They left out great chunks of one of the great works of English literature. The finished product was not Dickens' novel, but it was a fine piece of TV drama.

If you're expecting Tolkien's novels to be transcribed to the big screen unchanged, you will be disappointed. What we will hopefully get is an adaptation which respects the original source material, and doesn't stray too gratuitously from the text. Think positively.

Incidentally the music for the BBC radio version was composed by the late Stephen Oliver, much of it was excellent, certainly superior to the Donald Swann stuff.

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Jan 01 - 07:03 PM

The othher day I was reading the biography of the TV playwright Dennis Potter (by Humphrey Carpenter, who also wrote a life of Tolkien) - and I came across this:

Three of Dennis Potter's four great-grandfathers were Forest miners: Edward Potter of Shortstanding, Richard Hawking of the Lonk (adjacent to Berry Hill), and Thomas Howells, who had his own level (coalmine) at Readypenny, as well as being an innkeeper at Joyford.

Soundc familiar? So maybe the Hobbits should speak in the accents of the Free Miners of the Forest of Dean, which isin Gloucestershire, but across the Severn from the rest of England, and cut off by it from the rest of Gloucestershire, which is the next county to Oxford.

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: SeanM
Date: 16 Jan 01 - 07:09 PM

I'd heard something about the first full trailer being released with "13 days"... Anyone see it?

M

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: GUEST,Julia
Date: 16 Jan 01 - 09:14 PM

If anyone is interested, I have made melodies to many of Tolkien's songs.I'm a professional Celtic harpist / vocalist and have a great appreciation for the variations between the branches of Celtic music. There are such variations in my interpretations of Tolkien's "races". Although I have several recordings, I haven't recorded these as I am concerned about copyright etc. Anyone know the deal regarding this?

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 04:42 AM

Interesting that Ian Holm plays Bilbo - He played Frodo in BBC radio series! For whoever mentioned the radio production I think it was 70's, not 60's, as I listened to it in our second marital home - and I was wed in 1974.

I don't think the accents will matter too much - remember we are talking fantasy characters here after all and no-one has realy heard what they sound like. If anything I would agree with the conrtibutor who suggests they should be Warwickshire/Cheshire - the geography makes sense. (Shire - West midlands, Northern Wastes - Lake District/Lancashire, Mountains - Pennines, Mordor - London...;-))

I am looking forward to it and think that New Zealand will make it all the better - or am I the only one that appreciates Xena - Warrior Princess???

Cheers

Dave the Gnome (or is it dwarf???)

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 07:00 AM

Dave the Gnome - Xena is wonderful! The most anachronistic, entertaining, humourous piece of action adventure I have seen in a long time. (Buffy beats it though). New Zealand looks amazing. Willow was filmed there too. It has such a fantasy landscape. Very Narnia-ish.
As a film, Lord of the Rings certainly won't please everyone (the book was voted "Book of the Century" by Waterstone's customers). I think it would have been better to cast complete unknowns in it, as then there are absolutely no pre-conceptions about the actors and reality just will not intrude on the magic created on screen. I guess that just doesn't pay though...
In my first year at university we were asked in an English class what books played a major part in English literature. I said "Lord of the Rings" on the grounds that it threw the floor wide open for a whole new genre of writing (some good, some bloody awful) and was a favourite amongst many, adults and children alike. Very few people agreed with me. Most just looked at me as if I wasn't being pretentious enough - one of the reasons I gave up English (too many people walking around with difficult and pretentious novels in their back pockets, wearing black, chain smoking and claiming they'd rather sit in and study Proust than go down the pub and discuss Neighbours).
Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing it, but I don't think anything will ever be as good as reading it that first time...

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: harpmolly
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 01:04 PM

Okay, maybe I'm not the best one to post to this thread (my gluteus maximus is still significantly sore for the kicking I received when I mistakenly attributed Sting's "Cushie Butterfield" accent to Cockney--ouch!), but as an American anglophile, I am certainly insulted whenever I hear of anything being dumbed down for "my" sake--and it's happened more times than I can count.

I routinely spend twice as much as I normally would to buy Terry Pratchett's paperbacks in their UK editions, because his American publishers make me break out in hives (why the hell is it so important to take the "u" out of colour and honour? Damn you, Noah Webster! And the US cover art...blecch!). One of my favorite British musicals, Tim Rice's "CHESS," was pretty much eviscerated when it was "Americanized" for its Broadway run (even Judy Kuhn's brilliance couldn't save it altogether). I almost broke out in hives when I learned that my favorite movie--"Little Voice"--had almost been savaged by the casting of Gwyneth Paltrow (???) and Brad Pitt (?!?!?!) in the lead roles, instead of the wonderful Jane Horrocks FOR WHOM THE PLAY WAS WRITTEN (and, of course, my true-love Ewan McGregor, but that's another story).

Joanne Rowling was right to stick to her guns regarding the British casting of the Harry Potter movie, and I'm glad that LOTR is (at least, accent-wise) following suit. I can deal with American actors speaking in dialect as long as they're making a decent effort. But telling me that I'm expected to be too stupid and self-absorbed to comprehend someone speaking in a non-American ENGLISH accent really steams my dumplings. Next thing they'll be telling us that they're going to re-shoot "Gone With The Wind" in a flat Midwestern accent because all those Southern vowels are just too liquid for the majority of Americans. Just about equally ludicrous!

Sorry for the long-windedness, but this issue continues to infuriate me. Sigh.

All the best,

Molly

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 01:05 PM

So what do you think about the new official site?

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Les from Hull
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 01:27 PM

I think that if there are still any hobbits around the English countryside, they'd live in Borsetshire - just outside Penny Hassett.

Les

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 01:36 PM

"I think it would have been better to cast complete unknowns in it, as then there are absolutely no pre-conceptions about the actors and reality just will not intrude on the magic created on screen. I guess that just doesn't pay though..."

Well, that's more or less what they did with Star Wars when they started - apart from Alec Guinness, and a couple others who probably weren't too well known in America anyway. And they got away with it pretty well. Saved a lot of dosh to spend on special effects too.

I mentioned Dennis Potter - and that ties in with one of the themes in his thread, since they Americanised, and most people agree ruined, one of his best works, Pennies from Heaven when they made a movie out of it.

I don't get it - in America you've got the country with the most variegated people in the world, nobody is really foreign, in the sense that people are foreign in many countries. I mean yoi can't look at anyone and say "they must be from another country".

I could understand if people in some countries where everyone looks the same and talks the same and that couldn't get along with foreign films or understand different accents. But America? You must be kidding.

If you can't understand regional English accents, how the hell do ever manage if you get to New York?

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: mousethief
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 01:47 PM

That's easy. In New York, nobody talks to you.

There was something to that effect on the radio this morning. The guy said he was in New York on a visit, and determined to try to cheer some of those people up. So when the cashier at the grocery store gave him his receipt, he said, "Aren't you going to tell me to have a nice day?" The cashier said, "It's printed on the f****ing receipt, why should I say it?"

Alex

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Greyeyes
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 04:25 PM

Someone mentioned above re the US Harry Potter books: "the USA crowd would wonder why Mrs. Weasley sent Harry a hand-knitted jumper every year for a Christmas gift".

Can someone explain to me why this is the case? The Weasleys are poor and that's all they can afford, aren't there poor families in America? Or does "hand-knitted jumper" have some sinister hidden meaning. Or don't you have knitted jumpers? I'm intrigued.

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: MMario
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 04:33 PM

"jumper" in the US is a type of dress. whereas I believe what was sent is what we would call a "sweater"

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 04:38 PM

The official site... I avoid it like the plague...

The Ringbearer domain at Fandom.com... that's where I get my LOTR movie news... and the Message board is the best one I've EVER found!

;-)

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Greyeyes
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 04:46 PM

Aha, we call them sweaters as well, and pullovers, or woolly pully's for short. You can't have too many names for a woolen over garment, I always think.

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Burke
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 04:59 PM

In U.S. terms Mrs. Weasley would have been knitting a pullover sweater. A jumper is a sleeveless dress meant to be worn over a blouse.

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Greyeyes
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 05:26 PM

This is quite an old one, but some people may not have seen it.

In a recent press release to the world media, Jackson openly admits that he has thrown all caution to the winds and decided to "go with the flow" of Twentyfirst Century popular ethics. "I can't afford to offend anybody - even with all my new financial backing," Jackson confessed. "So I've decided to go with a 'modern' interpretation of Lord Of The Rings. Aragorn will be an African American, Arwen a feminist with latent lesbian tendencies. The dubious 'no-women-in-their-life' status of Merry and Pippin, Gandalf, Legolas, Gimli and Boromir will be brought out overtly and Eowyn's infatuation with Aragorn will be admitted as indicative of her Electra complex."

When pressed to reveal more of his "go with the flow" approach, Jackson freely declared that the Easterlings would be represented as an exploited people reacting against Numenorian imperialism, and Sauron as a charismatic leader with independent moral values, reflecting a unique cosmology that shouldn't be judged by White Male Hero standards. As for Orcs, Trolls, Uruk Hai and other "baddies", Jackson will be subtly directing the audience to sympathise with them as pre-scientific genetic experiments that went awry. "We should feel sorry for the Orcs," Jackson states. "It's not their fault they are so mean and nasty. They are the unfortunate results of a poor diet, a low socio-economic background and absent or negligent parenting. If anything, we ought to try to understand them rather than judge them... I mean, isn't that in the spirit of inclusion that characterises the current Western mood?"

Latest reports have it that Jackson's final scene will have Aragorn shaking hands with Gothmog and Gandalf leading the armies of Mordor in a rousing chorus of 'Kumbaja!' --

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 05:27 PM

Clinton, have you checked out the new official site?

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Gypsy
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 04:34 PM

More two cents worth....have a copy of The Middle Earth Songbook, will share tunes with any interested. Kinda trippy book. Published in 1976, by The American River College Science Fiction Club. Some is direct text, other is original

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Burke
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 05:12 PM

The movie isn't due until Dec. 2001? A fact found, BTW, more easily on the fandom page than on the official page. We're supposed to be excited about seeing a trailer? Maybe I don't go to movies enough, but I just can't seem to care what the site or the trailer are like. Wake me up when the movie's out. Greyeye's summary makes it sound kinda interesting.

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Hollowfox
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 05:25 PM

I've found this site useful for upcoming movies. They distinguish between rumor, opinion, and confirmed information.
http://filmforce.ign.com
No, the address doesn't have "www" in it. Dunno why. (I'd love it if somebody could turn it blue for me. Thanks in advance.)

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Greyeyes
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 05:26 PM

I've had a quick look at the official site, it's very dull, there are much better ones, with far more relevant info about the film.

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Callie
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 06:38 PM

Julia: I would be interested in hearing your music.

A friend has sought permission to record some Tolkein songs but the Tolkein estate forbids most recordings. This has caused much disappointment. It's worth looking into as I suspect the Tolkein estate would be more financially able to sustain a court case!

Callie

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Rizla the Green
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 06:42 PM

On the subject of accents, yes they are fantasy characters and it doesn't matter what the accents are, BUT... Tolkien himself said that The Shire was based on what he called Rural England..and therefore hobbits should have rural english accents. So There!

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: hesperis
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 08:04 PM

http://filmforce.ign.com

I get to play Link Fairy!

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 08:22 PM

Hey, it can't be any worse than the cartoon version!! That's all I have seen. I have a friend who absolutely refuses to look at any pictures, movies, etc. of LOTR/Hobbit, because she is SURE she knows what they look like, and doesn't want her fantasies ruined. I kind of feel that way, but Aragorn as African doesn't seem too off base to me.......maybe it will be OK. I will see it at least once, just to give it a chance.

WHY is it that movies can't just follow the plot? or get it right? I am with Dave on this one. The mini-series of Shogun was a big dissapointment, although with 12 hours and Japanese actors it was better than 2 hr. movie. Oh well, just read the books. I haven't decided if I am going to see the Harry Potter movie or not......although with Rowling having final cut, it may be OK.

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 09:54 AM

It is getting ever closer.

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 10:40 AM

The trailer looked pretty good - I saw it when I went to Harry Potter. Sounded ok too. And, though I hesitate to say it, Enya's songs sounded as if they might work pretty well too.

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 11:00 AM

I STILL maintain that it was a HUGE mistake to NOT cast Billy Connolly as Gandalf. So there. And Hobbits have Herefordshire accents, as everybody knows ;-)

Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 09:10 PM

I don't think the English have an "accent" as much as a "coloration of speech" with some words not familiar to Americans or Canadians. But then, I'm from Milwaukee (wisconsin) and I usta live by Schusters where the streetcar bends the corner around. By where the bubbler is, by the bakery where they sell schnecks! Sweetrolls. Come by my house and holler me out when yous wants ta hang with me! I'll show ya around.

I sure hope them Hobbits ain't speakin' Amurican (what ever THAT is) Hit'l be a hard git-by sure enough! and anyway who sez we won't understand them Brits? have they forgotten that Monty Python was (and still is in some circles) the most popular comedy series ever in the US? At least at my house.

CB