Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Snuffy
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 02:16 PM

2641 ON ONE APRIL MORNING - abc/miditext posted here Tune Add: Please Post Tunes Here -2

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: MMario
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 08:43 AM

file updated. Thanks snuffy!

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: MMario
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 09:02 AM

1813) IT'S TRAGIC - midi at Alan's mudcat midi page (tune= it's magic")

(I missed this when it was first posted.)

file updated - ~ 1956 to go

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 11:49 AM

237)  THE BANKS OF NEWFOUNDLAND (2)  "From Margaret Christl and Ian Robb on Folk-Legacy -- they credit Edith Fowke with collecting this", says the DT file.   She did indeed; it came from Mr. O.J. Abbott of Ontario, in 1957.  Fowke included it in The Penguin Book of Canadian Folk Songs (1973) with the comment, "At least half a dozen songs share the title The Banks of Newfoundland, but this particular one is rare.  Mr Abbott's version is the only one with a tune that has turned up in North America."  Midi made from the notation given in that book.  Christl and Robb were fairly faithful to Abbott's text, though they seem to have thrown in a good few "folk clichés", adding a lot of unnecessary "well"s, "yes"s, "he"s, and so on.

2608)  OLD KING COUL (3)  An 18th century Scottish version of the well-known song.  Midi made from notation in Songs of Scotland vol.2 (ed. Myles B. Foster, undated; presumably late C19), where the tune is simply described as "ancient".  The DT file points out that lines 5 and 6 of the text are omitted in the Scots Musical Museum, where the tune (presumably the same as the one I quote) was given, so it should be noted that the lines

And every fidler was a very good fidler,
And a very good fidler was he.

do not have music prescribed.  I don't know what the best way around this is; Chappell (Popular Music of the Olden Time) has two English versions, but the one with the extra lines is very different to the SMM tune, which is a variant of the tune from John Gay's Achilles, which Chappell also quotes.  Best for now, I think, to note that the text from Herd given in the DT has no tune, but that the tune I give is the one to which it was actually sung, minus those two lines.  Doubtless people can improvise the rest if they wish.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: MMario
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 04:42 PM

Thanks Malcolm.

3656) THE WEE ROOM UNDERNEATH THE STAIR - named note file sent by Kenny B - NWC file ready to be sent to Joe.

files updated. about 1953 to go.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: MMario
Date: 13 Feb 02 - 12:58 PM

lack of activity due to playing "catch up" as I didn't forward anything to Joe during his marriage month. refreshing the thread for easier reference.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 05:37 PM

X:1
T:Ca' Hawkie through the watter.
Q:180
L:1/8
M:2/4
K:Em
d B B G|A B c2|d B B G|A F F D|\
d B B TG|A B c c|\
Be e ^d| e E E E||\
"Chorus"G2 G B|A2 A c|G2 G B|A/G/ F/E/ D F|G G G B|\
A2 c c|B e e ^d|e E E E|]

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 07:46 PM

Is that an English or Scottish set?  I've dealt with the one in Northumbrian Minstrelsy, and Bruce Olson posted an earlier example a while back; see  Ca' Hawkie

If you can specify your source, it would be helpful.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: MMario
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 11:36 AM

FYI - the list of DT tunes "found" and submitted since oct '99 and those on the list still "missing are avaialable.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 03:29 PM

440)  THE BONNY MAID OF FIFE  This song was written by Nick Keir of the McCalmans, though the DT file does not mention him.  In fact, Susanne (skw) pointed out the authorship within three days of Ted of Australia posting it, but he also posted it in a separate thread, which is perhaps where it was harvested.  It appears to have been transcribed from a record made by someone who had interfered with Keir's song, transposing the whole thing rather clumsily from the first to the third person.  The River "Fourth" should of course be "Forth", and it should be noted that Keir spelled "Bonny" as "Bonnie".  Lyrics available on various websites suggest that the unknown singers had also taken other liberties with Keir's text (obviously still in copyright), but I don't have his recording of it and can't be precise; Susanne would know the details.

I found two sets of notation on the web, and have made a midi from a pdf at Edgar's Song Book,  which seems to be the more fluent of the two.  As I haven't heard the original, I can't vouch for it.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: MMario
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 03:35 PM

Thanks Malcolm.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: MMario
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 02:58 PM

okay - backlog caught up. (poor Joe!)

files have been updated. Both "Missing tunes" file and "Found Tunes" file available. PM and/or e-mail me.

approximatly 1952 still to find, format post and submit.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: MMario
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 12:58 PM

2569) OH, THAT LOW BRIDGE - levy box 72, item 083 - songwrite file sent to joe. lyrics by Edward Harrigan, music by Dave Braham. published 1885

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: MMario
Date: 22 Feb 02 - 12:48 PM

2110) LITTLE GUIDING LIGHT OF MINE - songwright file sent to Joe.

2884) RAILROADING ON THE GREAT DIVIDE ~songwright file sent to Joe.

1949 still to go.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 12:04 PM

505)  BRISK YOUNG LAD  The DT file appears to be a transcription from memory from a record (unidentified) , and contains so many mistakes that parts of it are just gibberish.  As Bruce Olson pointed out some time ago, it also places the refrain in the place of the first verse without saying so; if it were my call I would junk the whole file.  What I can do is post an accurate text in a new thread:  Lyr & Tune Add/Corr: Brisk Young Lad.

Bruce apparently gave Dick an .abc of the tune (from the Scots Musical Museum) a couple of years ago, but I've made a midi just in case, from notation given in Songs of Scotland vol.2 (ed. Myles B. Foster, n.d., but presumably late 19th century; vol.1, edited by others, was 1877).  So far as I know, words and melody are as given in SMM.

2855)  PUSH BOYS PUSH  This was composed by members of the Dudley Tunnel Trust (in the 1970s, presumably), though the DT file does not say so.  I found staff notation at Rod Beavon's Canal Songs and Poems;  it appears to be a modified form of Ten Green Bottles.  Midi made from that notation, slightly modified for neatness and to accommodate the lyric.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: MMario
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 12:39 PM

Thanks again Malcolm. Little by little whittling the numbers down.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 08:22 PM

2998)  ROSE OF BRITAIN'S ISLE  The DT file names no source, but the text given is nearly identical to the one in Edith Fowke's Sea Songs and Ballads from Nineteenth Century Nova Scotia (1981), and may perhaps derive from that book, with one or two words mis-remembered.  Fowke commented:

"Although at least four different broadside printers issued this ballad in England, it does not seem to have survived in British tradition, nor has it been reported in the United States.  However, it has been quite popular in Canada, turning up in Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Ontario.  The text here is one stanza longer than any of the traditional versions I have seen.  It is remarkably close to the texts given by Creighton and Manny except that they lack the seventh stanza."

The Fowke text came from Fenwick Hatt's notebook of sea ballads, made around the 1880s.  Helen Creighton gives a set in her Songs and Ballads from Nova Scotia (1932), which was noted from Mr. Ben Henneberry of Devil's Island c.1929.  This is probably as close as we are likely to get to a tune for the DT example, though, as ever, I stress that we can't know whether or not that text was ever sung to this tune or one like it.  Midi made from the Creighton example.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: MMario
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 08:06 AM

2956) ROBIN HOOD AND ALAN A DALE - songwright file sent to Joe.

(several tune directions found said to 'A saucy sailor' the tune in the DT scanned. May not be correct but it is A tune.)

~1945

files updated.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: MMario
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 11:29 AM

3147) SIMON BRODIE - posted by sorcha back on 27 July 00 - oops!

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 11:47 AM

Hmmm... I did find a website that gives "a shortened version sung to the folk tune of A Saucy Sailor from English Folk Songs by Cecil J. Sharp", but there's no implication that that tune was ever used traditionally (I don't think that the ballad has ever been found in tradition). I suspect that someone just set it to that tune very recently so they could perform it, and I'd be very wary of associating the two. Sharp didn't collect any Robin Hood ballad set to that tune.

The copy at the Bodleian specifies the tune of: Robin Hood in the greenwood; there is perhaps a chance that this could be the same as Bonny Sweet Robin, or My Robin Is to the Greenwood Gone, which appeared in one lute collection as Robinhood is to the Greenwood gone. Simpson doesn't make any connection, however, though he mentions that Chappell had conjectured that the tune might have served for "a Robin Hood ballad now lost". Bruce Olson also lists a broadside copy Robin Hood and Allin of Dale/ Tune: Pleasant Northern Tune, or, Robin Hood in the Green-wood stood, but I have no idea if there's any connection. It's at times like this that we really need Bruce to advise.

Chappell refers to Rimbault's Musical Illustrations of Robin Hood, where the tune given for Robin Hood and Allan-a-Dale is the first half of Drive the Cold Winter Away, but I haven't read Rimbault and don't know whether or not there was any historical sanction for the use of that tune. It fits well enough.

All rather complicated, but the two tunes I've mentioned seem at least more likely than the Saucy Sailor, which I really would advise against.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: MMario
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 11:56 AM

*sheepish grin* I figured that would get some kind of response from you, Malcolm. Thank you for making it so informative! (Reading through your posts on this series of threads is an education in itself.)

This sometimes drives me nuts - because while I certainly agree with you that one should not attribute a tune as "traditional" without any kind of documentation - I often wonder how many people are in the same boat I often am - wanting a tune - that is both 'singable' and fits the lyrics...and unable to find one.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 12:56 PM

Most people use a tune from somewhere else, but it's important that they say what they've done. Martin Carthy is an example of the intelligent matching of traditional melodies to texts with which they were not historically associated; he always makes clear his source, but that doesn't prevent people learning songs from his records and subsequently teaching them to others as authentically traditional, which can be irritating. The current short series on BBC Radio 4 about border ballads featured The Twa Corbies last week; sung throughout to the Breton tune first set to it in the 1960s, and with no mention that this was not its traditional tune! The presenter should have known better.

The wording on the website I mentioned is ambiguous and will probably result in people believing that Sharp actually found Robin Hood and Alan a Dale being sung to The Saucy Sailor, which he certainly didn't. Any connection between Robin Hood in the greenwood and Robinhood is to the Greenwood gone can only be conjectural (unless someone who knows more can help), so on balance I'd say, go for the tune Rimbault used, with a note stating the source.

The book was The Robin Hood Garlands and Ballads, with the tale of the Lytell Geste. A collection of all the poems, songs and ballads relating to this celebrated yeoman, by John Mathew Gutch (1847). As I said, I don't know on what grounds E.F. Rimbault, who supplied the musical examples, used it, but with the strong caveat that it's a mid-nineteenth century setting, and likely not traditionally associated with the ballad, it might do for the time being. I've made a midi from the notation given in Chappell's Popular Music of the Olden Time (1859); the first half of Drive the Cold Winter Away, as he stated. Of course, I don't know if this is exactly as Rimbault quoted it, but I'd guess that Chappell's example might be closer than those given in Simpson's The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music (1966), the second of which, though the same melody (from Playford's Dancing Master of 1651), is phrased a little differently.

Here's the midi:  Alan-a-Dale.mid  See what you think. In two places I've split notes into two of equal value in order to accommodate the lyric.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: MMario
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 01:02 PM

looks and sounds good to me. Thanks again.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 03 Mar 02 - 12:13 PM

3855)   YOU GENTLEMEN OF ENGLAND FARE:  The DT text is from Flander and Olney's Ballads Migrant in New England (1953); no tune was given in that book, as the text was "received by mail from James Copeland of Brideport, Connecticut".  There is, however, a reasonably close version, with tune, in Helen Creighton's Songs and Ballads from Nova Scotia (1932).  This was noted from Mr. Ben Hennebury of Devil's Island, and I've made a midi from that notation.

Mr. Copeland's text was reproduced verbatim, including his (probably accidental) rendering of "coronation" as "croronation".  There are two errors in the DT file; in verse 6 line 3, "Beat" should be "great", and in verse 7, line 5 should end at "love", "I Hope" being the first part of line 6.  Parts of the text have become garbled in the course of transmission, or require explanation; the information comes from Roy Palmer's Boxing the Compass (2001; formerly The Oxford Book of Sea Songs), where he gives a text called England's Great Loss by a Storm of Wind .

Verse 3 line 2:  "the old ram's head": a headland to the west of Plymouth, now called Rame Head.
line 5:  "fisher noes": originally "Fisher's Nose", part of the foreshore at the entrance to Sutton Harbour, Plymouth.
line 6:  "Thinking to bring our palamoers": in earlier versions, "Thinking to fetch up in Hamose", Hamoaze being a name for the mouth of the River Tamar.

Verse 5: The following is the equivalent verse from the set published by Palmer, taken from J. Ashton's Real Sailors' Songs (1891):

When we came to Northumberland Rock
The Lion, Lynx and Antelope,
The Loyalty and Eagle too,
The Elizabeth made all to rue:
She ran astern and the line broke,
And sunk the Hardwick at a stroke.

Re. Northumberland Rock, Palmer comments "This line in one version reads: Ashore went the Northumberland."

The ballad was made on an historical event.  Palmer again: "The outcome of the storm of September (not November) 1691, was less disastrous than the ballad indicates: two ships, the Coronation and the Harwich, were lost, and two more, the Royal Oak and the Northumberland, went aground but were later refloated."

A broadside example can be seen at  Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads:

Gale. 15 November ("You gentlemen of England fair, who live at home free from all care ...")  Printed c.1840 by R. Barr of Marsh Lane, Leeds.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: MMario
Date: 03 Mar 02 - 12:47 PM

Thanks Malcolm!

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 05:24 AM

3432)  THREE FISHERS  The DT file correctly credits the text of this song to Charles Kingsley, but the music was written by John Hullah, not Hull.  The text was apparantly transcribed from a Joan Baez record; she seems to have added some unnecessary words to Kingsley's song (the men must work and the women must weep...) which I have not included in the midi, made from notation in Songs of England, ed. J.L. Hatton and Eaton Faning (Boosey & Hawkes, undated), as this is not a traditional song.  It appears that Stan Rogers recorded Kingsley's text set to a new tune by his brother Garnet, but this one is the original.

672)  THE COCKERHAM DEVIL  The DT text was transcribed from a radio broadcast, and does not credit the writers of this song, who are Pru and Roger Edwards of Pilling (as in the song).  Midi made from notation in Mike Harding's book Folk Songs of Lancashire (1980).

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: GUEST,wbo
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 02:02 PM

In DT file GOINGWST the 1st line of the 3rd verse should read: "In this fair land I'll stay no more", and it's from Arnold's 'Folksongs of Alabama'. The DT copy has no tune, but an ABC of the tune for this version is in the Mudcat Forum. Search the Forum for "Going to the West", posted Feb. 6, 1999.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: MMario
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 02:48 PM

Thanks Bruce! Sorry I missed that before.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 12:46 PM

579)  CAPTAIN COULSTON   The DT text was transcribed from a record by Andy Irvine and Dick Gaughan; their principal source was Brigid Tunney, though they added additional verses from another source.  Steeleye Span also recorded an arrangement of her version (somewhat pared-down), so I've used notation in the first Steeleye Span songbook for a midi: first verse only, as they varied the tune (another Dives and Lazarus / Gilderoy variant) later on.  I don't have a recording of Brigid Tunney singing it, but would hope that this is reasonably close; it's certainly quite close to the way her son Paddy sang it.

2000)  THE LADY LEROY  This is taken from H.M. Belden's Ballads and Songs Collected by the Missouri Folk-Lore Society, and came originally from A.F. Wade's MS collection, where no tune was given.  Variants have been found in a number of places, but there is another set from Missouri at The Max Hunter Folk Song Collection:

The Lady Leroy As sung by Mrs. Tressie Rose in Gainesville, Missouri on July 1, 1958.

This would seem to be a reasonable example to use, though as ever we cannot be sure that it it even remotely resembles the tune used by whoever Wade noted the text from. Midi borrowed, then, from Hunter, with the following modifications to accomodate the text:

Bar 2: First note (1/16th; Bb4) removed, second note (1/16, C5) doubled to 1/8.

Bar 3: Sixth note (1/8; Ab4) split into two 1/16ths.

Bar 4: Seventh note (1/8; F5) split into two 1/16ths.

2053)  LEESOME BRAND  Child #15. The DT file is the set that Gavin Greig got from Bell Robertson of Aberdeenshire in 1908, though the DT credits neither source nor collector. She actually called it Lishen Brand. She did not sing, so no tune is recorded for her set, and it appears that none has been found in tradition anywhere else.

NOTE:

3012)  ROTHESAY BAY  This is frequently described as a traditional Scottish song, and may possibly have entered tradition at some point (though I rather doubt it); it is, nevertheless, a poem by Dinah Maria Craik (née Mulock, 1826-1887), a prolific English writer, born in Stoke-upon-Trent and best known for her novel John Halifax, Gentleman. This point was made in a thread of 1999 by Murray on Saltspring and Wolfgang, but whoever harvested the lyric paid no attention to that and simply described it, misleadingly, as "Scots".

The poem was set to music by Alfred Scott-Gatty, an English heraldic expert and songwriter (1847-1818; born in Ecclesfield, Yorkshire). It appears to have been recorded by Moira Anderson and Jean Redpath, among others; there is a midi listed on the web, but the site has been shut down. Given that the error messages from the former provider proliferate and give Netscape a heart attack, I should say that the site owner did well to leave them; unfortunately, this leaves us without the tune. Perhaps it will turn up again, or these clues will help someone else to find it.

Details of Mrs. Craik's work can be seen at The Victorian Women Writers Project at Indiana University.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 11:09 AM

3810)  WOMAN'S RIGHTS  From Vance Randolph's Ozark Folksongs; midi made from notation in that book. The DT file does not credit the source singer, who was Mrs. Laura Wasson of Elm Grove, Arkansas. Her song was noted on January 28th, 1942. The DT has three errors; Silver Bell should be Silver Bill; line 3 of the chorus should read, not The think that under woman's direction, but They think under woman's direction; line 5, verse three, should be But I don't care a fig for his growling, not But I don't give a fig for his growling.

3864)  YOUNG REDIN  Child #68 (Young Hunting). The DT text is Child's example B, from Kinloch's Ancient Scottish Ballads (1827), and was noted from a Miss E. Beattie (from Mearns-shire), in Edinburgh, though the DT does not mention her. Her tune was printed by Kinloch, and I have used Bronson's emended version, where he has corrected faulty notation in the third phrase.

1957)  KING O' LUVE  Child #89 (Fause Foodrage): this is Child's example C, and came from the Harris MS, "Derived from Jannie Scott, an old Perthshire Nurse, c.1790". Child and Bronson both refer to it as Eastmuir King; perhaps Hermes Nye, who is mentioned in the DT file as having recorded the song , thought King o' Luve sounded nicer. The tune, given in Child as well as in Bronson, is the one that Andy Irvine mistakenly used for Willy of Winsbury (and changed a bit), and which everybody and his or her dog now seems to use as well.

514)  BROWN ROBYN'S CONFESSION  Buchan is the only authority for Brown Robyn's Confession, and no tune has been preserved. (Bronson).

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: MMario
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 09:05 AM

Thank you, as per usual, Malocm! I've updated the "no tune" and the "found tune" files.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 May 02 - 12:39 PM

845)  DESERTER  As you suggested some time ago, the "Penguin" tune, already at the Midi Pages, is the one for this. The DT text is not a traditional set, but is certainly a partly garbled mis-remembering by someone of the Penguin text of  The Deserter from Kent, containing such felicities as to the Augustine for up to harvesting, Maystone for Maidstone, etc.) It looks to have been learned by ear from a record, or from someone who had got it from the book and enunciated poorly! As such, it's of no use as a resource and is an ideal candidate for deletion when the Penguin set, which has been harvested, is added to the database.

3759)  THE WIFE OF USHERS WELL  The DT file credits neither source singer nor collector; the text was presumably transcribed from a record by John Roberts and Tony Barrand, who themselves conscientiously acknowledged their source, though they appear to have altered it without saying so. The song was recorded, as There Lived a Lady in Merry Scotland, by Ralph Vaughan Williams from Mrs. Loveridge at the Homme, Dilwyn, Herefordshire, in 1908, and was published in The Folk-Lore of Herefordshire, Ella Leather, 1912.  Midi made from notation in that book for verse 1; Mrs. Loveridge introduced variations into the tune in subsequent verses; these appear in Ella Leather's book and are quoted in Bronson, vol.2, 79:3, p.246: There Was a Lady in Merry Scotland.

The DT file differs in some respects from the original. In verse 1, line 2, dee' is a mistake for deeds. Other differences are presumably the result of editing by Roberts and Barrand:

Verse 3, lines 1 and 2: I will not believe in God, she said / Nor Christ in eternity
was originally I will not believe in a man, she said , / Nor in Christ in eternity

Verse 4 appears to have been introduced from another, unnamed source; unless the Leather book omitted it for some reason. The original had this verse in its place (not in the DT file):

And God put life all in their bodies,
Their bodies all in their chest,
And sent them back to their own dear mother,
For in heaven they could take no rest.

Verse 6: originally

The cloth was spread, the meat put on;
No meat, Lord, can we take,
Since it's so long and many a day,
Since we have been here before.

Verse 7: originally

The bed was made, the sheets put on
No bed, Lord, can we take,
It's been so long and many a day
Since we have been here before.

Verse 8: originally

Then Christ did call for the roasted cock,
That was feathered with His only (holy?) hands;
He crowed three times all in the dish,
In the place where he did stand.

Verse 9 does not appear in the original.

Verse 10: originally

Then farewell stick and farewell stone,
Farewell to the maidens all.
Farewell to the nurse that gave us our suck;
And down the tears did fall.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: pavane
Date: 26 May 02 - 05:52 PM

Rose of Britain's Isle - Recorded by John Kirkpatrick & Sue Harris in the 1970's - does that help?

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 May 02 - 08:53 PM

I've dealt with that one (provisionally) earlier in this thread, but it certainly would help if they gave any source information and you could quote it so we can check it out.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 01 Jun 02 - 06:49 AM

492)   BRIGHT PHOEBE  The DT file describes this as "traditional Newfoundland" but doesn't name a source. Kenneth Peacock noted three versions in Newfoundland, and published two tunes and one text in his book Songs of the Newfoundland Outports (1965), vol.2. The text given is very close indeed to the DT text, and may well be its ultimate source (it was also included in Fowke & Johnson's Folk Songs of Canada). Midi made from Peacock's version A, which came from Mrs. Charlotte Decker of Parson's Pond, Newfoundland, in August 1959. It appears to be more complete than his version B. It's a Dorian tune, and Peacock noted it without key-signature (which would normally be F), just indicating the flats where they occured. I have followed him in this.

The DT file contains only minor variations from Mrs. Decker's text; her readings are indicated below:

Verse 1, lines 2 & 3: So fair...
Verse 1, line 4: this wide world...

Verse 2, line 2: in (DT) may be an accidental insertion.

Verse 3, line 2: ...damsel was slain...
Verse 3, line 4: In her cold grave lay mouldering.

Verse 4, line 2: ...I had never...
Verse 4, line 3: I'd have died...
Verse 4, line 4: ...had proved so cruel.

No implication here that there's anything wrong with the DT reading (except perhaps for "in"), which was likely learned from singing. Peacock reluctantly decided not to try to reproduce the local accents in his transcriptions (" Rather than have my poor readers lose their sanity"), so his texts come out as more "Standard English" than they will have sounded in the mouths of his sources.

The song has also been found in other parts of Canada and in the USA. Roud Folk Song Index no. 1989.

3721)   WHEN THE BATTLE IT WAS WON  From MacKenzie's Ballads and Songs from Nova Scotia, where no tune was given. The Roud Index at present lists only two sets with tunes; one from Maine, USA, the other from Newfoundland. The latter would presumably be the one to go for here, with the usual health warning: there is no evidence that this tune is even remotely like the one that belonged to the text in the DT, but it was used for a similar version of the song in another part of Canada, so it might be. Midi made from notation in Peacock's Songs of the Newfoundland Outports (1965): vol.3, where it is called The Deserter. Noted by Kenneth Peacock from Mrs. Thomas Walters of Rocky Harbour, July 1958.

Laws J23, Roud Folk Song Index no. 1890.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From:
Date: 01 Jun 02 - 11:59 PM

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From:
Date: 02 Jun 02 - 12:13 AM

Hey Mudcatters; I'm missing a tune from the mid-50s. Title;??? Wyoming, My Wyoming or Wyoming Calling Me Home.

I'd like the melody for the lyrics; "Wyoming, calling me home. wide-open spaces that I love to roam. Green valleys kissed by the Sun, ready to welcome you when day nis done. I green valleys; you're sure to find perfect contentment and sweet peace-of-mind. When my roaming's over and I'm/you're roamings over, I'm sure there'll be someone to welcome this rover,....To My Wyoming..... Thanks for any direction. this song is a metaphor my life and coming demise. (Not too Soon)

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 02 Jun 02 - 09:28 AM

You're in the wrong thread, mate. This one is specifically for locating tunes that belong to files in the Digital Tradition that were put there without them; only a few people read it, and your request will be lost here. I'll start a new thread for your enquiry, which will have a better chance of being noticed:

Wyoming (Calling Me Home)

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Noreen
Date: 08 Jun 02 - 11:19 AM

WHO'S GOING TO PAY PADDY DOYLE? NWC file sent to MMario

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 16 Jun 02 - 07:20 AM

756)   CROCKERY WARE  The DT file is a transcription from a recording by Margaret Christl, and names no traditional source. It is almost certainly taken from Kenneth Peacock's Songs of the Newfoundland Outports (1965); the set there was noted from Everett Bennett of St. Paul's, in 1958. Christl has made some minor alterations to the text, mostly not worth mentioning, though I'd specify that her verse 1, line 4, Was to lay with her one night, was previously It was to lay with her one night, which better fits the tune. The final word of each line of the chorus should be woe, not oh; this seems a very small point, but it's worth mentioning as that particular nonsense refrain was very common in songs noted in Southern England in the early years of the 20th century. Midi made from Peacock's notation. Quite a common song in tradition in England (where it appeared on broadsides) and Canada; also occasionally found in the North of Ireland. Roud Index number 1490.

2263)  MARRY? OH NO, NOT I  The DT file is a transcription from a recording by Margaret Christl, and names no traditional source. I think it a fairly safe bet that this was also taken from Peacock, who published a set -from Everett Bennett again- which is textually nearly identical, though Christl has made some minor alterations; including the title, which was Oh No, Not I. Compare, first Bennett's first verse, then Christl's:

A Newfoundland sailor was walking the Strand,
He met a pretty fair maid, and took her by the hand,
Saying, "Will you come to Newfoundland along with me?" he cried.
And the answer that she made to him was "Oh no, not I."

A Newfoundland sailor was walking by the strand
He spied a pretty fair young maid, and took her by the hand
"Oh, will you go to Newfoundland, along with me?" he cried
But the answer that she gave him was, "It's, oh no, not I."

That's The Strand in London, rather than the seaside! Midi made from Peacock's notation. The song has turned up quite a bit in England and Canada, and occasionally in the USA; it appeared on 19th century broadsides both as No, my love, not I and The Newfoundland Sailor. Roud Index number 1403.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 16 Jun 02 - 10:08 AM

937)   DREAM ANGUS  Described as "traditional" wherever referred to, and quite likely the tune is; I'm less convinced about the lyric, though. The DT file was transcribed from a record made by a Canadian band, and differs in wording from most examples to be found on the web; since I don't have any printed source for it, I can't say what would be the right of it. There is a verse omitted, however:

List to the curlew cryin' oh,
Fainter the echoes dyin' oh,
Even the birds and beasties are sleepin',
But my bonny bairn is weepin', weepin'.

The DT file also contains a particularly comical mis-hearing. Either the transcriber or the singer(s) have Dream Angus is hurtlin' through the heather, which is a ludicrously inappropriate image. The word should be hirplin(g), which is, to limp; move unevenly; hobble.

Midi made from staff notation found on the web (no source named), intended for bagpipe and without the appropriate f sharps indicated, amended by comparison with a couple of bagpipe midis and with a few notes split to accommodate the lyric.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Noreen
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 07:54 AM

NWC files sent to MMario:

185)      Bagenal Harvey's Lament       (trad)
752)      crazy man michael       (Richard Thompson/Dave Swarbrick)
2756)    Philosophers' Drinking Song       (Monty Python /?)
2985)    Rolling down the River       (J Forbes MCPS) Unattributed in DT
3756)    widow of westmorland's daughter       (trad arr Fairport Convention)

and

315)      The Bergen       (Jez Lowe) sent earlier, MIDI added by MMario toBergen thread.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: MMario
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 09:10 AM

okay! I've been remiss in updating the files - but I think I have just about caught up now.

if I have counted correctly (for which I give NO garuntee at all!!!!) we are down to about 1902 tunes still "missing" - some of which HAVE no traditional tunes - another lot which are original compositions. So we are closing in on it.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 07:51 AM

135)   AS I WENT BY THE LUCKENBOOTHS  This is quoted from Alfred Moffat's Fifty Traditional Scottish Nursery Rhymes (1933), where it is called The Fair Lady. The DT file digests most of Moffat's notes on the song, though it would be worth adding the following:

"The Luckenbooths were picturesque buildings in the High Street [of Edinburgh], close to St. Giles' Church. They stood there from about 1470 to 1817 when they were cleared away."

Midi made from Moffat's notation.

1692)   I'LL HAE A PIPER  Quoted from Alfred Moffat's Fifty Traditional Scottish Nursery Rhymes (1933); midi made from notation in that book.

3531)   TWA CRAWS SAT ON A STANE  As noted in the DT file, example (1) appears in a slightly different form in Alfred Moffat's Fifty Traditional Scottish Nursery Rhymes (1933); midi made from notation in that book.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 07:26 AM

1315)  GLASGOW PEGGIE 3  Child 228 in a childrens' variant. From Alfred Moffat's Fifty Traditional Scottish Nursery Rhymes (1933); midi made from notation in that book. A 6/8 version of There's Nae Luck About the House, as the DT file states.

1580)  HOO MONY MILES IS IT TAE GLESCA-LEA?  A Scottish form of How Many Miles to Babylon?. The DT file has two texts, both from sources that did not print the tunes, but identifies the set given in Alfred Moffat's Fifty Traditional Scottish Nursery Rhymes (1933) as a close variant. Midi made from notation in that book, then, where it is called How Many Miles to Babylon? After some consideration, I have embedded the text as given by Moffat rather than modify the phrasing to accommodate the more Scottified text in the DT. Moffat has:

How many miles to Babylon?
Three score and ten, Sir.
Will we be there by candle-light?
Yes, and back again, Sir!
Ope' your gates and let us through,
Not with-out a beck and boo!
There's a beck and there's a boo,
Ope' your gates and let us through.

1614)  HUSH-A-BA BIRDIE CROON  Text apparantly from Chambers, Popular Rhymes of Scotland (1870) where I think no tune was given. A close variant in Alfred Moffat's Fifty Traditional Scottish Nursery Rhymes (1933) is cited; midi made from notation in that book.

Also from Popular Rhymes of Scotland is 167)  BA WEE BIRDIE  This is a West of Scotland variant of the above, again with no tune. Probably the best we can do is a cross-reference to Hush-a-ba.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: MMario
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 08:54 AM

Malcolm - I thought you had already done 1692 and 3531?

possibly I misread previous posts.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 09:25 AM

I don't think that I can have done; the book only arrived two days ago!

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 22 Jun 02 - 09:17 PM

2768)   PIPER SANDY  DT file quoted from Alfred Moffat's Fifty Traditional Scottish Nursery Rhymes (1933); midi made from notation in that book.

2742)   PENNYWORTH OF PINS  Example 1 of 3 cites Alfred Moffat's Fifty Traditional Scottish Nursery Rhymes (1933) for tune; midi made from notation in that book. In Moffat it is called I'll Gie You A Pennyworth O' Preens; the text differs just slightly from the DT file, and for the sake of understanding how the tune fits should be indicated here:

I'll gie you a penny-worth o' preens,
That's aye the way that love begins;
If you'll walk wi' me, ladye,
If you'll walk wi' me, ladye.

N.B. The two other examples have different tunes, to be found in Opie, The Singing Game and Buchan, 101 Scottish Songs respectively; these still need to be found and added.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: MMario
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 04:03 PM

3461) TO ALTHEA FROM PRISON - abc from Bruce O sent as NWC file to Joe.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 05:15 PM

3468)   THE TOD & THE HEN  Example #1 of 3 is from Chambers' Popular Rhymes of Scotland, and is quoted, with tune, in Alfred Moffat's Fifty Traditional Scottish Nursery Rhymes (1933), where it is called As I Went Up By Humber Jumber; midi made from notation in that book. I'm not clear from the notes in the DT file whether or not tunes have been published for the other two examples.

3657)   WEE SANDY WAUGH  In Alfred Moffat's Fifty Traditional Scottish Nursery Rhymes (1933); midi made from notation in that book.