BS: Who will win the World Cup?

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 02:49 PM

Catspaw,

The Japanese hate Korea and will cheer for whoever plays against them

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 04:07 PM

We'll see.........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 04:19 PM

Actually the English team have had some great support from the Japanese public. This is probably because of the prominent part played by the Manchester United players. Manchester United has incredible support all round the world (I hate 'em meself!), and David Beckham is something of an Icon. He said recently that he wouldn't mind playing his last years in Japan and running a football school there. Of course, we've got to beat Brazil yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: DougR
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 06:53 PM

You got me, Mark! Fair and square! Now, if they were to say that today ...

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Skipper Jack
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 03:05 PM

I fancy England's chances if they beat Brazil

But beware the Asian teams!

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: GUEST,David B
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 07:06 PM

ENGLAND

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 07:34 PM

And don't forget the Turks, as Den said. It's wide open.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Escamillo
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 12:42 AM

One hour for the great game. I'll not miss this one. Will try to see USA too, but who works tomorrow ? Predictions here in general favour Brazil for historic reasons, but are evenly divided for USA-Germany.

For demagogic reasons, I'll support England and USA.

Un abrazo - Andrés (in Buenos Aires)

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 01:34 AM

Well I'm going to nap for an hour (7:30 PM Thursday here) and then watch England pull out a last minute victory over Brazil, then nap again and watch the US triumph as well. Beyond that, your affiant sayeth naught.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 04:41 AM

Who's going to win? Not England anyway...

Cheers

Steven

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 04:46 AM

Brazil.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: alanabit
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 04:51 AM

Well done Brazil. They gave England a goal start and them beat them comfortably with ten men. You can't argue with that. They won fair and square. N

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: alanabit
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 04:53 AM

Whoops! Hit the wrong key! I just wanted to add good luck to them and let's hope they put on an exhibiton in the final, when they are likely to play against the Germans.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: GUEST,Bagpuss
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 05:02 AM

What a disappointing second half! I may as well have just gone to work!

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Gervase
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 05:10 AM

The best team won, sadly! England were consistently outclassed in the second half (though why Owen was taken off when he was is a mystery). You'd never think they had a player advantage, and their finishing was bloody awful.
Poor Seaman, though - possibly his last major tournament, and what a way to end it.
As for the referee...some of those decisions were perverse. It must be Brazil all the way now.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: GUEST,Jim Jones
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 05:12 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 05:14 AM

Alanabit, I have to agree, this England team did well to get so far. The English were an ordinary side, who when faced with a ten man Brazil side hadn`t the craft to beat a team which proved far more skilful. Their goal scoring record was poor and depending on a purely defensive formation was never going to win.Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 05:14 AM

Nuts !!

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: GUEST,Jim Jones
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 05:14 AM

Sick as the proverbial parrot. Gutted.

To lose to such a fluke of a goal is sickening. OK, Brazil were the better team, but, but...

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Gervase
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 05:29 AM

A fluke? Surely it was one of the most superbly-taken free kicks of the tournament. If Beckham's boot had been behind it, would anyone have the temerity to call it a fluke?
Not that I'm not gutted. The day seems to have gone strangely flat now.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: GUEST,Jim Jones
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 05:34 AM

Oh come on, Gervase.

Don't tell me that he was trying to do that. He looked more suprised than anyone

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Harry Basnett
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 05:50 AM

Oh woe is me...oh woe, woe and thrice woe....

Still...got to admit, Brazil deserved it!

Rats!!

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 06:15 AM

I just thought it was one helluva' game. England was outplayed in the second half as Brazil really toughened it up while a man down. Another questionable call, some exciting shots, a lot of action.....Sorry to all of you across the pond, but it was a great competition!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 06:24 AM

Looked to me like Ronaldinho saw Seaman off his line, took the kick quickly and put the ball exactly where he wanted it to go.
Sadly, though, as Ard Mhacha says England looked ordinary in comparison, and at a time when, with Brazil down to 10 men, they should have been passing the ball around and keeping possession, they resorted to lumping it forward and handing possession straight back -- exactly the same tactics that served them so badly in the Sweden game.In the end it was England who looked as if they were down to 10 men. It's no disgrace to lose to Brazil, who are by far the best team at the tournament, but the manner of losing was disappointing.

BJ

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 06:25 AM

So I was wrong once more. I'm sad for you that you did meet Brazil so early. The present English team is the strongest of the last ten to twenty years and could/should have been among the last four teams.

The English team is stronger than the German team on three to five positions, but the only position on which the German team is stronger would have made the difference today. The English Team wouldn't have lost with Oliver Kahn as goalkeeper.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 06:44 AM

Funnily enough, up until today, Seaman had been playing really well. I was asked by a ten-year old the other day if Seaman had any weaknesses. I said (remembering that Nayim goal from the halfway line) that he sometimes comes too far off his line and gets beaten over his head...aaaarrrrgggghhhh!

BJ

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Trevor
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 07:10 AM

But hasn't the atmosphere been great for the last couple of weeks..

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 07:14 AM

Wolf, I'm personally hoping you're wrong one more time today.......

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 07:18 AM

I'd prefer Mark to be wrong on two counts. I've been wrong so often, I should be right one time. Or would you say one more time doesn't matter now?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 07:28 AM

Another very recent Carsten Jancker joke:

"I'm sure the Americans will have nothing to laugh today"

"How can you be so sure before the game even has started?

"Germany plays without Jancker"

Wolfgang (I hope the double meaning of 'nothing to laugh' carries also in English)

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Noreen
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 07:46 AM

Indeed it does, Wolfgang- good one! (We'd say nothing to laugh at though.)

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 07:54 AM

Good one Wolfgang!

20 minutes of hard Soccer so far...............

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 09:28 AM

Kahn or not does make a difference.
I had thought the idea with the black ribbon for Fritz Walter was a token and not that the whole German play was meant to express actual mourning in all its aspects.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 09:41 AM

What a match! I thought both teams played their hearts out, and but for Kahn I think it would have been a triumph for the US. No question in this American's mind that the Americans have earned respect in the world of football! I also must say I was very impressed with the referee. Though I wouldn't have minded the usual mistaken call on the hand ball this time, his call was exactly right. There was no question but that he was in charge of this match. I hope he draws the final!

Aloha,
Mark

(Now going to bed at 3:30 AM.....)

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 09:42 AM

Whatever Wolfgang, but there was no disgrace in the US loss here. The 5000 who showed at Crew Stadium are giving their reactions on the tube right now, and like myself, the feelings are very high for the US Team. Playing Germany to a 1-0 loss was perhaps not what we hoped for, but I hope it gets the US some respect....They'll get a hero's welcome when they return!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 10:27 AM

Hi - I mis-titled the thread, but you may enjoy this new lyric...

Copacabannockburn

Cheers

Steven

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 01:05 PM

The US were unlucky, they played far better than a bloody awful, boring, German side. I wouldn`t like to see this type of football being copied by other countries, England were another team devoid of ideas, they flattered to deceive against a Danish side more frozen than their bacon, and when faced with a depleted Brazilian team they were found wanting. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: gnu
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 06:08 PM

Mark said "Though I wouldn't have minded the usual mistaken call on the hand ball this time, his call was exactly right."

Huh ? I thought the US was robbed of a goal... at least a penalty shot. Even though I agree that the ref's decision is final and it's based on what he sees, how can you say he was "exactly right" ? The close up replay clearly shows a goal and a hand ball. I do agree that the ref did a fine job... six yellows in four minutes sends a clear signal that there will be no fooling around on my pitch. And you cannot cite the ref for the mistake, but "exactly right"... uh uh.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: GUEST,Truthtroller
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 07:17 PM

Thank God, thank Buddha, thank Jehovah, thank Jesus thank anyone.. the Americans have gone. Imagine how tedious life would have been with their heads full of a world cup victory. Gone, gone gone the Americans have gone! Have a nice day.

T.T.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Gareth
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 07:30 PM

Now England are out of the cup, it has been declared safe to discuss, and praise, thier performance here in S Wales.

A good team, but unlucky, Brazil closed it down, as any other team would have donew if your ahead and one man short.

A gallant, sportman like effort.

(And thank God the Hysteria is over)

Gareth in Wales

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Blues=Life
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 11:10 PM

Gnu, as a former player, and a current coach and ref, I've got to go with Mark on this one. The ref was completely right.

Item 1 - hand ball. No such law. The law refers to intentionally handling the ball. If your hand doesn't move to the ball, but rather, as in this case, the ball strikes your hand, there is no foul.

Item 2 - ball crosses the line. From the replays I saw, the ball was about 2 inches short of completely crossing the plane of the line. By the law, the line is part of both areas it delineates. Therefore, to be a goal, ALL of the ball must be COMPLETELY past the line into the goal. The assistant referee was right on the line (it looked like he was at the post, but I could be wrong) and I think he called it exactly right. I can't tell you how many times I have to explain to parents that the ball may not be touching the line, but is still over the line, and is therefore, not a goal. (Or out of touch on the side). Too many fans are used to American Football where touching the line means you are out of bounds, and that is not the case here.

A great game, and to paraphrase the Cubs, NEXT CUP!! Blues

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Escamillo
Date: 22 Jun 02 - 05:20 AM

A Cup of champagne for the England and USA teams for a brilliant performance. As a consolation for we Argies, this is indeed the Cup of Surprises. Korea has just won against Spain. What's next ?

Un abrazo - Andrés (6:15 AM in Buenos Aires)

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Jun 02 - 05:58 AM

Like I keep sayin'.........I wouldn't bet against the Koreans. Good game with Spain and I figured Spain had the shootout but once again the Koreans came through in the pinch.
Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 22 Jun 02 - 08:28 AM

But in the film of the tournament, USA will win it 3-2 in the last seconds with the winning goal scored by a partially sighted lad, whose life was endangered by a terminal illness, was brought through it by a footballer, and dedicated the rest of his life to soccer.... his estranged parents will be in the stands and his success will bring them together....

Is it a coincidence that every match that England played previous to Friday, their wives and girlfriends were at home. The women arrive on Wed, England crash out on Friday.... Hmmm.... maybe they should have stayed at home....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Den
Date: 22 Jun 02 - 10:18 AM

Ahem...don't want to brag but check out my predictions above. I will now say that it will be a Brazil Germany final with Brazil winning by three goals. How's that for putting your head on the block.

I have to echo much of what has been said here in regards to the other games. England definately need a world class playmaker if they want to be a serious contender. A man in the mould of Bryan Robson would have made a difference I think to give England some drive through the centre of mid-field.

Germany did just enough to beat the US and no more. I think they can play better. Korea will give them a run but I think that in the end the Germans won't give them as much room as the Spanish did. I think that was the Spanish failing. They let the koreans have too much of the ball in the second half and Korea made them work.

I'd love to see Turkey beat Brazil. They have been one of the more attractive footballing teams in the tourament. They play so well as a team and they have that wonderfully quick counter attack. Sadly though Brazil have beaten them once and I think they will do it again.

Anyway that's only what I think so we'll see. Den

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jun 02 - 11:57 AM

Blues=Life... thank you for your explanations. I was always under the impression that the ball was deemed to have crossed if the centre of the ball crossed. And, after seeing play stopped and a free kick given for a hand ball without intention or movement, I assumed it was a foul. Again, thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Skipper Jack
Date: 22 Jun 02 - 02:23 PM

What did I say earlier?

Beware the Asians, ie: South Korea!!

They beat Spain didn't they?

You never know they might really upset the applecart by toppling Germany.

But I think it's Brazil for the world cup.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 02 - 02:44 PM

Most of Turkey is in Asia too. It could yet be an all Asian final.

Most of the St George's Flags have been taken down now - but round the corner there's a house with a home made flag made by stitching a St George's Flag and a Turkish flag. Cross and Crescent. That's still up there.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 23 Jun 02 - 12:06 AM

Don't worry, gnu, you're not the only one who's confused. Here is the first paragraph of Law 10, The Method of Scoring: "A goal is scored when the whole of the ball passes over the goal line, between the goalposts and under the crossbar, provided that no infringement of the Laws of the Game has been committed previously by the team scoring the goal." If you imagine a vertical plane extending upward from the outside edge of the goal line, a goal is only scored when every bit of the ball has crossed that plane. In the case of the US shot against Germany, only part of the ball entered the goal; therefore, no goal.

And as far as the "hand ball" call, Blues is again right: Law 12 says that a player will be penalized by a direct free kick (or penalty kick, if it's within the penalty area) if he "handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within the penalty area)". If you watch the replay, you'll see that the German player actually moved his arm back after the ball struck him. I suspect this was intentional, to let the referee see that he was not deliberately playing the ball. But you're right, gnu, you have seen referees in this World Cup award a foul when the ball merely ricocheted off a player's arm. In my humble opinion, those were incorrect calls. It doesn't help matters when the announcers are not very clear on what the laws are, and give confusing messages to the viewers.

It would also be nice if they would use correct terminology. "Sideline", "end line", "6-yard box", "18-yard box" -- Jack Edwards, or whatever his name is on ESPN, has been driving me batty. Or have these terms somehow become part of the vocabulary of non-American commentators as well? Am I being unnecessarily pedantic here? (I actually did hear him say "penalty area" once in the US-Germany game, and almost fell out of my chair.)

I think a Turkey-Korea final would certainly raise a few European and South American eyebrows, and definitely make this the Surprise Cup! I'm afraid, though, that those calling for Brazil over Germany in the final are probably right. But Den....3 goals???

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Who will win the World Cup?
From: Kaleea
Date: 23 Jun 02 - 12:45 AM

What an amazing world we live in! South Korea has plenty of problems like their President being hauled off to jail, and the big headline of the day in all the Korean papers & lead story on all Korean networks is . . .Korea wins the World Cup! Although I usually root for Ireland, I'm half Irish I have a special fondness for Korea. I spent some time there back in '76 & '77. Being an impresionable kid from the midwest who had never been anywhere before, I marveled at every sight I saw. The most wonderful thing I learned is that The wonderful people of South Korea are friendly, caring people who want a better life for their children than they have. Kinda like most folks I know.