BS: Football World Cup 2006

Subject: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 May 06 - 11:49 AM

As this event is nearly upon us - does anyone have any predictions?

As a lifetime supporter of the England team since the Walter Winterbottom days - I am really interested in any thoughts of what form our usual disaster will take? The one that will prevent The England team from winning and will later be used as the excuse - rather than just accepting the fact that there were better teams with better players and better managers.

Like Booby Moore's (alleged) shoplifting, Ronaldino's (fluke) free kick and 'The Hand of God' etc.

Unless of course the usual disaster does not happen and the England team (with our boy wonders) actually go one to win it (again).

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 10 May 06 - 12:59 PM

This will be the 11th World Cup I have actively followed. By far the most painful for me were those in which England were non-combatants. I like the look of this 2006 team, although I acknowledge the injury to Rooney will be a problem. Still, the withdrawal of Jimmy Greaves in 1966 caused many a head to drop, and that turned out OK ...

I like the fact that it's in Germany, a sensible nation that doesn't go in for feigned injury. I hope it's a good tournament, a grand spectacle, an unmitigated success as a beacon of good international relations and that England wins it. The odds are against the latter, but so long as it doesn't come down to penalty kicks, you never know ... ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Les from Hull
Date: 10 May 06 - 01:24 PM

Amazing choice? of strikers from Sven, though. One who is so badly injured he probably won't play, one who is just returning from injury, so Sven won't let him play in a testimonial in case he aggrevates his injury, one a nine-foot beanpole that everyone was laughing at six months ago, and some lad who hasn't actually played the game before. Seeing as you use up to three strikers in each game, where does that leave us? In the same group as Sweden, obviously.

It's just as well that England have quality midfield players with the ability to score goals...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 10 May 06 - 02:02 PM

That's it in a nutshell really Les. Rooney is definitely out for all of it and Michael Owen is unlikely to finish three games - let alone a passing movement. That means nobody is causing the defences to fumble attacks, in the way, which provides ammunition for our midfielders. The fact that all our midfielders can shoot is likely to prove ineffective, given that our reserve forwards are nowhere near good enough to force mistakes at this level. Expect England, who have never beaten Sweden in a competitive match, to score no more than five goals maximum and be on the plane home in the second week.
Germany will play considerably better in front of their own fans, if they can get up a head of steam after their second or third game. They don't have many truly great players, but they are usually determined - and lucky - once tournaments have started. Given warm weather and dry pitches, either the Brazilians or the Argentines ought to walk it. However, if the pitches are wet and cold, they may have to start running - and then several teams will be in with a chance.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 10 May 06 - 02:14 PM

Why not shoot yourself now?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 May 06 - 02:39 PM

I predict that it will fill the pages of our newspapers, the screens of our TVs, and the speakers of our radios with pompous pontificating people wasting millions of cubic metres of hot air on what is after all only a silly game.
As a result many good programmes will be displaced, and many esoteric ones will be discovered in the desperate search of the airwaves to avoid having to listen to the bloody thing.
Think of the starving millions all that wasted money could feed!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 10 May 06 - 03:54 PM

Think of the billions who will enjoy all that cultural feasting.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 10 May 06 - 05:09 PM

I am not going to shoot myself because England are not going to win the World Cup. We Brits have got used to that! It is a disappointment though. England are now rank outsiders and that is a shame, because had their best players been fit, I would have said this was the most talented squad of players we have had in my lifetime.
Let's just hope there is some good football played in a good spirit to enjoy. Maybe a side of the quality of the brilliant French team of 1998 will emerge. I can enjoy quality football whether we are in with a chance or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 10 May 06 - 05:14 PM

Football? Culture? There's more in Yoghurt, and it isn't obsessed on so.

If I ask for this thread to be closed will Shambles moan about censorship? It's nothing personal, just trying to avoid one of the most overblown subjects going.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 10 May 06 - 05:19 PM

England are not going to win the World Cup. We Brits have got used to that!

Well, this Brit has never got used to it. It's still one of the most talented squads we've ever had; the only player (probably) out is Rooney. Have a little faith, man!

Optimism-R-Us

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 10 May 06 - 05:21 PM

Bunnahabhain, to avoid 'one of the most overblown subjects going' simply stay out of the thread. Simple really.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 May 06 - 05:22 PM

Calm down dear, it's only a silly game!
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 10 May 06 - 05:22 PM

It's my religion.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: autolycus
Date: 10 May 06 - 07:07 PM

The lads have got it about right between them.

47 out of every 48 are World Cup free.

Most of what we spend money on in the West could be better spent bringing the rest of the world up to speed. Maybe. Like the trillions on weapons. The trillions on stock market gambling. The trillions on our absurd way of life.

And for those who don't like footie, there are more books to read than you'll ever have time for. Ditto films. Ditto works of art. Ditto conversation. Ditto science to learn. And just how many TV and radio channels do you need to escape stupid, wonderful, annoying soccer?


   Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 11 May 06 - 01:39 PM

If you don't even want to discuss the subject matter I'd say stay out of the thread. Having said that. The world cup is not all about England but since you are all speaking about their chances, I'll add this. I agree that on paper this looks like the strongest team England have had in years but the loss of Rooney is a big blow. Lets have a look at the team and what I'd do if I were Sven. Well Robinson gets the nod. Gary Neville at right back. I'd pair Terry and Campbell in the centre of the defence. Ferdinand (even though I am a dyed in the wool united fan) is suspect. At left back I'd play Cole if he is fit. Failing that Carragher. Hell I'd play Carragher in the holding role in front of the defense in which case Bridge would come in at left back.

Where I think England is weak and I know this will be controversial but remember I'm Sven here. The centre of midfield has got to be a worry. Lampard and Gerard and even Carrick play far too advanced for me. Now Lampard gets the start no question but I wouldn't pair him with Gerrard in centre. I'd much prefer a good holding player like Reo-coker. I've seen England caught out too often with Gerrard and Lampard too far advanced and the opposition strolls through the middle. Beckham has been doing well much to my surprise for Real so I'm not sure wheather he would start there or Gerrard on the right side of mid-field. On the left I'd go with Joe Cole. I'm going 4-4-2 cause England can't play any other system.

Up front without Rooney who knows? But I will go with Owen and the boy Walcott. the latter would give me the option of having him drop deep much like Rooney does and use his pace. Owen tends to rely on the ball over the top and I want to see some football played, with Lampard being the playmaker.

Having said that, I pick Brazil to win. I've never seen them stronger and they've already hammered Argentina, and beat Germany in the Confederations Cup. My dark horse is Mexico or Serbia-Montenegro or whoever makes it out of Group C.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 11 May 06 - 02:05 PM

Good grief, Den. Walcott? Why not play me up front ... you've never seen me play either. ;o)

Seriously, I love Sol Campbell but I fear he's past his best. I have a cringing feeling the likes of Ronaldhino will leave him in their dust. Remember how Mara(cheaters do prosper)donna made Peter Reid look like a carthorse. Well, like that.

Brazil is a safe bet to do well. They have the same 'unbeatable' aura that ManU used to have. Still, that's gone too ... ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 11 May 06 - 02:16 PM

Yeah, but BPL who would you have partner Owen? Surely not Crouch, I'd probably play you instead of him.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 11 May 06 - 02:27 PM

The Argentines had no idea what to do with Lofty and it led to their downfall. He was red-hot in Liverpool's late-season revival. I have confidence in a Gerrard-Owen combination with the midfield left to the Chelsea boys.

I have to say I like the look of this squad for Euro08. And I just read the Scotland score. Good job I was sitting down!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 11 May 06 - 03:48 PM

Both Beckham and Gerard can find Owen quickly from thirty yards with both feet. The problem is, how fit is he? He is not yet back to match fitness. Unless he makes an astonishing recovery very quickly, I can't see Owen having much effect.
I think anyone who saw Liverpool's astonishing Champion's Cup Final last year will have high hopes of Steve Gerrard - whom I would have made captain.
As I wrote earlier though, unless the weather is pretty cold and wet, I don't see anyone having enough talent and accomplishment to beat the brilliant Brazilians. Damn it, they even have a good goalkeeper this time around!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 11 May 06 - 03:58 PM

So who's your dark horse? Mine's Mexico.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 11 May 06 - 04:31 PM

Germany is my dark horse ... I think they'll make the semi final.

The Brazilians are not gods. (They're only named after them ;o) Last time they met England it was a very, very tight game decided by a single (controversial) goal. They are beatable, nothing to do with the weather.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 11 May 06 - 05:20 PM

Just an aside, but Alan Shearer's testimonial for Newcastle United just finished and I'd like to take a second to acknowledge what a great player he has been. This was one of the most important goals ever scored for England, IMO, as it finally undid the hex Germany held over England since 1966:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/tyne/content/image_galleries/shearer_career_gallery.shtml?33

Who will the new hero be?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 11 May 06 - 05:21 PM

Sorry Big Pink Lad. That was me without a cookie at 3:48. I had not noticed my name was not on the post.
"They are beatable". - Agreed. Any team is. Even the better side in a game of football needs luck to win. That is what makes it exciting. However, I do not believe that England have ever beaten Brazil (or Sweden) in a competitive match.
"Nothing to do with the weather." I am afraid that on a warm pitch against an in form Brazil, there can only be one winner barring the most bizarre developments. Although I agree with you that this is the most talented England side for many years, no more than three of them would make it into the Brazilian squad.
Believe me, I would love to be wrong. And while we are at it, before we get carried away, even if England get past the group stage, they will soon run into either Holland, Germany or Argentina. As they say, the fight does not always go to the strongest nor does the race go to the fleet of foot. But that's the way to bet! England could survive against any one of those sides if they put up as disciplined a performance as they did against Argentina in the last World Cup. I can't see them doing it twice in a week though. The record books show that we have overcome the Germans in only one competitive fixture since 1966.
In football miracles can happen. The Germans still refer to "The Miracle of Berne" in 1954. Somehow, Greece are the reigning European champions. Seen in that light, I guess England are candidates. However, if they won, it would be a shock on that scale!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: skipy
Date: 11 May 06 - 06:22 PM

I am going to stick pins in my eyes during the world cup as it will be more fun than watching it or even listening to it.
My time will come when we are out of it, which hopefully will be early!
Skipy
oh! by the way I was in the local Rugby Club back in Nov. 2003 when we acctually had something to celebrate, without kicking the shit out of each other or smashing things up, or defiling our flag, funny how we don't need to ban rugby supporters from travelling around the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 11 May 06 - 06:40 PM

Hey! Everyone look! Skipy doesn't like football but just had to drop by to let us know. Thanks, skipy ... and sorry to be writing about football in a thread with a subject line saying Football World Cup 2006.

Now fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 May 06 - 07:46 PM

But it's a pity about the English World Cup songs...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: skipy
Date: 11 May 06 - 07:51 PM

Well hi bigpinklad.
Don't you think that your last statement played into my court, aggresive, abusive, threatening & not the behaviour of a gentleman.
I rest my case.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 11 May 06 - 09:01 PM

Just punching back, Skipy. Your tired cliche's about football violence don't alter the truth of the matter, which is that many millions of people will be following the World Cup. More than a billion will watch the final on TV. There will be no more violence than usual, which is exceeding little. If some poor sod gets killed travelling abroad to see his team it brings the tripe hounds out of the gutter, baying for a short sharp shock. The fact is that many more holiday makers get mugged and beaten in sunny climes than ever get set upon at football games. Have you ever been to one? Or even a rugby match (not the telly ... live ... it's where life happens) Count the number of dead from football-related violence over the last 30 years and see how many times it fits into the number dead from pilgrimages to Mecca in the last two years. Nothing like a bit of hyperbole to whet the appetite. You might be looking forward to seeing your warped views come to fruition, but, like the VAST majority of football fans, I am looking forward to a safe and secure tournament.

The only bit you got right is that I am not a gentleman.

Kevin, write us a song, dude. ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 12 May 06 - 01:35 AM

We are agreed on that much BPL. I was in Köln for the 1988 European Championships and it was a good natured party all the way. The brilliant Dutch won the tournament at a canter and the Dutch, Danish and Irish fans in particular, spent most of the time singing and making the rest of us laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Skipy
Date: 12 May 06 - 03:12 AM

Fair comments BPL, but what pisses me off is the wall to wall coverage & the obscene ammounts they are paid.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 12 May 06 - 05:17 AM

I can sympathise with that to some degree Skipy. I recall last year, when the Pope came to Köln. I was aghast at the disruption caused by masses of hapy, well behaved young people. I was also quite baffled by them and wondered to myself, "Shouldn't these young people be taking a bit more interest in sex and drugs and rock and roll?" Different strokes for different folks. Fact is, even if only a quarter of the population is really interested, that still makes quite a lot of folks.
Really big money for players is a phenomenon, which is less than fifty years old. At the end of the day, any sport, which has the capacity to attract a large number of people, will inevitably draw financial rewards to the players, who are the centre of attention. As you know, rugby has had to face this dilemma pragmatically over the past few years. Whatever the merits of amateurism, it is no longer feasible in a mass media age.
Get some good books, a couple of videos of England winning the Rugby World Cup and a good stock of beer mate. It will all be over soon enough and you can have a good time of it in your own way!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 12 May 06 - 05:34 AM

As Giok said, it is a silly game - but it also is fun, or could be. But now they make a big business out of it.
As our national coach Sepp Herberger once said: The ball is round, and a play lasts ninety minutes. That is all you know before the show starts. In the end the best team will win - with the usual necessary bit of luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 12 May 06 - 09:15 AM

BPL you have to remember in the game between England and Brazil. Brazil were reduced to ten men after Ronaldinho was controversially sent off and still won. Who knows the result could have been more than 2v1 had he stayed on the field.

But enough about England. Who will make it out of Group C. Argentina, Holland, Ivory Coast or Serbia Montenegro? Will Spain be able to shake off their underachiever moniker? Will there be any surprises from the African contingent? Will a non-European team win on European soil, a record held by Brazil since 1958.

Any predictions for the golden boot?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 12 May 06 - 10:53 AM

Skipy, my apologies for the eff-off. I use the expression as a comma, so no insult intended (well, maybe a mild one ;o)

I wish I was paid as much as top footballers, but they work a lot harder than me and their earning life is on average, I'd estimate, about a decade. Professioal sports is one of the few areas where popularity with the masses translates into fair return to the performers. Look at the millions of hangers on who can't kick a ball straight and still get rich. Look at all the poor sods writing, playing, recording music who get at best a small percentage portion of the revenue it generates. Good luck to them, I say.

I don't want to start a prediction league, but my guesses for second round would be as follows:

A Germany, Poland
B England, Sweden
C Argentina, Netherlands
D Portugal, Angola
E
F
G

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 12 May 06 - 10:56 AM

Bit premature there ... (the wife complains about that, too ...)

E Italy, USA
F Brazil, Japan
G France, South Korea
H Spain, Ukraine

Happy Friday.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: skipy
Date: 12 May 06 - 03:51 PM

BPL, no problem at all, Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Billy McKinley
Date: 12 May 06 - 04:03 PM

See work has got underway at Colditz Castle in the town of Colditz near Leipzig to house the England supporters. We can all be assured they will never let us down when it comes to punch up's, wrecking businesses, breaking windows, insulting people in the street, breaking the odd jawbone of a passing 80 year old in the street. Ah all to look forward to. Oh not forgetting their National Front jibes and songs in the terraces.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 12 May 06 - 06:34 PM

Billy. Hunt?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Bella Haddock
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:42 PM

Is that true ? are English soccer fans really nasty and misbehaved while overseas ? Why doesn't their teams body do something about them. Must look the English fans up on the net. Thanks Billy for the heads up.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,John Terney
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:05 PM

Yeah it's true alright about the England fans. They get some really bad press. Worked in London England for two years. They are scary to watch. Insult the players and fans of other countries. I remember Germany playing in the famous London grounds. It was all nasty shouting about who won the war and attacks on fans with broken bottles. Organised and orchestrated the press called it.I imagine the German police will be ready for them, at least I hope so !

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Brakn
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:41 PM

Re The state of English Football.......

In the (European) Champions League quarter finals, of the last eight teams, Arsenal, Barcelona, Milan, Villarreal, Benfica, Internazionale, Juventus and Lyon, not one English player took part. I think there were 18 Brazilians. It doesn't look good, does it?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:51 PM

You must think we just fell off the turnip truck if you think you can sign in as several Guests and back up your bollocks with with more bollocks, pal.

You remember working in London for two years 'Guest,John Terney,' yet your memory fails when it comes to remembering the name of the ground you watched Germany play in. It's quite famous ... even people on Pluto have heard of it. No more clues, except Germany never played in any other famous grounds ... just the one ... you know, the famous one you don't know the name of. And yes, insults are hurled back and forth, it's a tradition. Bottles? You never saw such a thing you lying bastard.

Here's what I'll do ... for every 80 year old that has his jawbone broken by an England fan I'll give Max $100, if you'll do the same should it not come to pass.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Hrothgar
Date: 12 May 06 - 09:21 PM

F Brazil, Australia

Now here's something to conjure with - what will you do if Australia gets past the first round and England doesn't?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 May 06 - 12:54 AM

I bet the earth will open, out will gallop the four horsemen of apocalypse, saddam hussein will be found innocent as charged, and the kangaroos will start jumping backwards in surprise..........

Are there any really sexy teams this time? I remember that Argentinian team with the bollock tight shorts made a big impression on the ladies in '78? For a while everybody was going round with Tarantino haircuts. (see male pubic hair coiffeur thread for other fashion suggestions)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Evelyn Waugh
Date: 13 May 06 - 02:23 AM

TheBigPinkLad, insults are hurled back and forth, it's a tradition ? I never saw the German salute given by any other pack of supporters than the English ! Overseas members please type in the word HEYSEL to see English fans at their finest. Watch them in June !

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 13 May 06 - 02:32 AM

Oddly enough, the Australians beat England quite easily at football when the two sides met in England a couple of years back. I am not saying that will happen again. Unexpected results keep sports alive. I believe England even beat them at cricket not so long ago!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Hrothgar
Date: 13 May 06 - 05:46 AM

That's getting fixed later this year.

We'll have a thread for it at the appropriate time.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 13 May 06 - 10:44 AM

Evelyn (same Guest as others) ... the more you rabbit the more it becomes evident that you don't know thing one from experience, only what the tripe houds feed you. The fascist salute is hurled at the Germans from EVERY European 'pack' of supporters. you can see it at Tottenham too sometimes, you won't know who Paolo di Canio is but get on yer Google and find out. He's Italian by the way.

Heysel was an unmitigated disaster which was a tragedy for both sets of fans caused primarily by sub-standard infrastructure and secondarily by by football fans of BOTH teams ... neither of which was the England team, which makes your shit-stirring more than two decades out of date and 100% mischievous.

By definition, overseas members were smart enought to join Mudcat, unlike you (hey it's not difficuot, get a grown-up to help). They are smart enough to see through you.

Even if you drag every shred of naughtieness from -- I don't know, how many decades are you prepared to go back? -- into your rant it doesn't alter the FACT that English football fans are 99.9% like me: peaceful, fun and good-looking.

The saddest thing is that we now know what is the only thing that will make you and your kind happy. I too invite the Wworld to watch England in June, and, hopefully also July.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 13 May 06 - 10:47 AM

Australia ... i'd like to see the Aussie lads do well. The Wembley fiasco isn't likely to occur again (touch wood!) ... hopefully Sven will stick will 11 or 12 players this time.

Good luck for the tournament and best wishes from the Northern Hemisphere!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 13 May 06 - 02:04 PM

Having just watched the FA Cup Final, I can only say, please God don't let anything happen to Steve Gerrard. I don't think another England player like him will come along in my lifetime.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: fat B****rd
Date: 13 May 06 - 02:44 PM

Hello, Phil. Greetings from Sunny Newton Aycliffe. To-day's Cup Final was great (after the first 20 minutes) I'm with Alanabit there. Gerrard must be preserved (preserved ?).
The 'Boro didn't do too well, mind. I'll be thinking of you with friendly envy if you're watching the World Cup while I'm at work.
PS "Football isnae a metter of life and death. It's much more important than that" Bill Shankly.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Bill D
Date: 13 May 06 - 07:31 PM

well....I notice back up there that someone actually noticed that the USA is in the tournament *grin*...we actually won a couple games in the past, so who knows?

The Cup, with the temporary configuration of players just for this tournament, is always fascinating, but the winner is not always the best...one header missed by inches, one lucky bounce, or one inadvertant foul can change the entire direction of a group, and ultimately, the final outcome.

I do hope most of the games go fairly and well, and that injuries and fouls are infrequent.....and that all teams can take pride that they did their best...

(and no, I'm NOT placing any large bets on the USA...*grin*...much as I'd like them to do well.)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 13 May 06 - 08:02 PM

The FA Cup was one of the best 0speaking as a neutral) in many years, dama to the last. I too was worrieed about Gerrard!

Bill, I think the USA will do fine. They are very fit players and, like American athletes in general, don't know the word quit.

Hi Charlie!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 May 06 - 08:27 PM

I wonder where I can get one of these to freak out my next door neighbour before the first match England is due to play...

I was talking about all this to my son, for whom football is also a religion. He reckons that for real fans the club is everything, the national team by comparison is insignificant. His only worry is that if England gets knocked out early, the TV coverage of the tournament will get scaled down dramatically. He just wants to see the football - who wins in this tournament is a minor matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 May 06 - 01:35 PM

When the England team qualifies for the finals I am always torn.

I either want them to get knocked-our early - so I can enjoy the football.

Or I want them to win. ............This time I think they will win.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 14 May 06 - 02:34 PM

I loved the comment from Dwight York, who said, "We're [Trinidad & Tobago] are not just going to make up the numbers; we're going there to win."

Good luch T&T ... please make your mark against Sweden (not England!)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 May 06 - 03:08 PM

Don't they have Shaka Hislop in goal?

BTW I so love that name.........

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 06 - 04:49 PM

Please don't delude yourselves, they will take an early bath as they always do. They couldn't play tig !

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 May 06 - 05:31 PM

I don't think that Trinidad & Tobago have qualified before have they?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 May 06 - 09:28 PM

No, but they came close twice. Here's the Trinidad and Tobago Soca Warriors World Cup Football site, with lots of good stuff, including music videos (and football videos too, of course).

Best of luck to them when they play Sweden. Given they are ranked 47 and Sweden is ranked 16 they'll need it. But then I see the USA is ranked 4, well ahead of Argentina and France for example, so those rankings are pretty clearly rather questionable. (You get stuff like that on the Fifa World Cup site.)

And I see they've got Budweiser down as the official beer sponsor of the World Cup? Good grief. In Germany? I somehow don't think there'll be too much of that stuff being drunk there, unless they are giving it away as a promotion...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 15 May 06 - 11:49 AM

Actually Kevin, the desperate liquid, which our American friends have to live with, is apparently most unlike the beer, which you can get here. Budweis is the German name for the Southern Czech town of Ceske Budejovice. Now if you come to Köln, I can take you down to Schwejk in the Altstadt and buy you a glass of real lager. (What the English call lager does not taste anything like the Czech original either). Real Budweiser is a beer among beers.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 May 06 - 07:35 PM

True enough, real Czech Budweiser is a beautiful beer. (Like all Czech lager I have ever come across). And we can buy it in English supermarkets now ("Budweiser Budvas"), and it even very occasionally turns up on draught in some pubs here.

But the sponsorship deal which gives rise to the laughable claim that the company responsible produces "the beer of the World Cup" is with the American company that makes that stuff that has made so many people believe that lager is a term for pricy dishwater, and that all American Beer is terrible.   Neither of which is the case.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 16 May 06 - 02:41 AM

Thanks for the warning. I'll drink my lager in Schwejk!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 May 06 - 03:26 AM

Have the World Cup wall charts hit the newspapers yet - or is it too early?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 16 May 06 - 03:54 AM

Last weekend, \i believe.


   I'm just lookingforward to seeing some great football and wonderful refereeing.


   \Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 16 May 06 - 08:52 AM

To be fair, you do see good refereeing. In the first minute of the 1974 World Cup Final, Jack Taylor (quite rightly) awarded a penalty against the Germans in their own München Stadium. In another incident, I think in the last World Cup, some fool of a striker dived theatrically in the opposing penalty area. His reward was instant - a yellow card. I enjoyed that!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 16 May 06 - 12:22 PM

My championship favourite is Italy.

My prediction for Germany is that they will (for the first time after the war) not survive the first round.
Why? They have only two players of international class (Ballack and each of the two goalkeepers), they have a young defense as full of holes as a Swiss cheese, and they do not have any longer the physical advantage of earlier years. So winning a lost game by fighting spirit (Germany holds the world record by far for coming back after a 0:2) is nothing that can be expected by that team. Last time, they did meet the first really strong opponent in the final, one cannot expect a similar luck this time.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 16 May 06 - 03:03 PM

Not a soccer fan, but good luck to every team. I hope the supporters in England have a great summer of sporting entertainment ahead of them.
Sport brings people together and this is a major event for a lot of you.
Good luck from this end.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: autolycus
Date: 16 May 06 - 04:31 PM

Yes Alanabit, i know there is good refereeing - that's why I'm looking forward to it.


   I won't be predicting for a simple reason - football is a funny game (altho' a fellow astrologer correctly predicted the Man.U./Bayern final outcome, and has had other successes with big matches.


   And I hope they make as fine a film of the tournament for subsequent showing as was done with the 1966 one (with a superb commentary from the great Brian Glanville)


   Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 16 May 06 - 04:45 PM

   I won't be predicting for a simple reason - football is a funny game (altho' a fellow astrologer correctly predicted the Man.U./Bayern final outcome, and has had other successes with big matches.

I'd be interested in seeing predictions from your fellow astrologer; or indeed any astrologer. (Before the tournament begins, of course). Meet me at Ladbroke's ...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 May 06 - 08:41 PM

The flags are coming out. Today I saw a block of flats with an English Flag and a Trinidad and Tobago flag in adjoining windows.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,tam the man
Date: 16 May 06 - 11:11 PM

Come on Aussie, I'm a Scot by the way

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Cats at Work
Date: 17 May 06 - 09:29 AM

I am actively looking for something else to watch while the world cup is on. Can't stand football. The only link I have with World Cup is that I used to take Pickles, the dog who found the Jules Remee Trophy in 1966, out for his walks when he moved to our village after finding it and I used to babysit for Dave, his owner. Lovely doggie he was....

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 May 06 - 09:30 AM

No Irish team this year of course - but the Ivory Coast is in there with a flag that is the same as an Irish tricolour, except it's the other way round. (With the Orange next to the flagpole instead of the green.)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 May 06 - 10:56 AM

Every good BS thread must have GWBush mentioned, so let me do it now (and then forget him for the duration of this thread):

One of our newspapers carries a series about what the fans of the different guest countries are being told (or warned about) before coming to Germany. It always makes me laugh about them and about us. Today we were informed about the warnings the US supporters get to prepare them for the hard life in Germany.

- not to wear a swimsuit in the Sauna
- not to be surprised that the locals consider violence in films as a good reason not to show them to children whereas they do not consider nakedness as a good reason to prevent children seeing the film
- not to lean on cars that do not belong to them
....
and
- not to show open support for Bush's politics unless they want a really nasty quarrel with the German they are talking to.

So don't forget: Never lean on the oven in the sauna with body parts not covered by a swimsuit even if you are asurprised by seeing several nonviolent bushes in the sauna.

Over to football

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 May 06 - 10:59 AM

and don't mention the war.....

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 21 May 06 - 04:43 PM

Well, last time it actually played a role in football World Cup was in 1950.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 21 May 06 - 05:35 PM

Yes. And when Germany returned in 1954, they won it!
The form book says Germany are rank outsiders this time too, even on their home ground. Still, if the weather remains as it has been this week, the form book could go the way of the Cologne summer...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 May 06 - 05:53 PM

The BBC documentary World Cup Stories - on the French, shown tonight cites the France v W Germany semi-final as being the reason for the French team winning in 1998.

It also makes the point that the incident in that match where the German goalkeeper ignored the ball and decided to clatter the French forward instead and incurred no punishment for this - did rather rekindle a lot of the old WW2 hostilties between the two countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 May 06 - 06:09 PM

I shall be supporting Spain as well as England. Perpetual underachievers they have been for many a year - but the portents are good. (Although the teams that are doing well in Europe are a a cultural mis-mash).

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 22 May 06 - 02:58 AM

I think the real reason the French won in 1998 is because they were the greatest side of modern times. They passed the ball better than anyone else and at stunningly high speed. They always found a little bit extra flair and imagination when they were in trouble. It was not just their recognised strikers, who came up with the important goals. They also had the most prodigiously gifted footballer I have ever seen in Zidane. He could do things we saw from Pele, Zico, Cryuff and Maradonna, but much much faster. He was probably also the greatest tactician I have ever seen. He could make a defence run to the right when he had already passed a ball twenty metres to the left. He was a clever boy.
Wouldn't it be great if a team like that emerged again? I am still praying for England. Oh please God let nothing bad happen to Michael Owen or Steve Gerrard...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 May 06 - 07:10 AM

I would tend to agree that they were a great side in 1998 and for the reasons stated but they were pretty much the same side that lost to Senegal and went out of the next competition in the early stages....

The BBC film stopped in 1998 and did not explore the reasons for this failure.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 22 May 06 - 07:52 AM

I think I would have enjoyed it anyway Roger. The fact is, that Senegal game has passed into mythology. The French chased them all over the park but did not get a goal. The French were not inspired, but they were not as bad as everyone said either.
Argentina never really fired on all cylinders in that competition. A determined and well disciplined England beat them and deserved to. I always called the last World Cup the year of the failures. Germany only had one real game - and they lost it. I will be surprised - and disappointed - if so few of the top sides really get going this time.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 May 06 - 11:56 AM

The French were not inspired, but they were not as bad as everyone said either.

I think their record speaks for itself. I don't think they managed to score did they?

Brazil certainly did not fail in 2002.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 22 May 06 - 12:25 PM

True again Roger, but I think only two sides gave Brazil a real game that I saw. England had a crack at them in the quarter final and Germany had a go in the final. Indeed, the better team came out on top both times, but I felt that nobody really played to their full potential last time around. To some extent, even the most talented sides only play as well as they need to. It was not much fun watching teams dying on their feet in the midday sun, was it?
Now if the World Cup produces a few games like the Czech Republic against Holland in the last European Championship or even the England Croatia game, I will enjoy it a lot more.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 May 06 - 01:54 PM

To some extent, even the most talented sides only play as well as they need to.

I think that what we saw then was that all sides are now more talented (and possibly that playing in extreme conditions add to this). The 7 - 0 strolls by the bigger names are now very rare, for this reason.

The great joy of world Cups to me is watching minnows like the South Koreans playing far beyond everyone's expectations as well as teams like Brazil and France playing 'champagne' football.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,abdul mazid
Date: 24 May 06 - 09:41 AM

Football is the most shittest game ever, who wants to see half naked men running around for the football. it is the most dangerous game ever.



THE GAME IS THE MOST BORINGEST GAME EVER

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 24 May 06 - 10:03 AM

Beautifully reasoned and presented Abdul.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Autolycos
Date: 24 May 06 - 10:46 AM

Roger, couldn't agree with you more.


   And several have given a basic reason the competition is unpredictable, namely, who knows now which teams are not going to be playing at their best this summer?




    Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 25 May 06 - 03:14 AM

I get the distinct impression that Fergie does not want Wayne Rooney to go to Germany - no matter what the doctors are saying about his chances of recovery.

Poor old Sven can't do anything right either. He is said to be cold and unadventurous and then when he does do something bold - like picking young Walcott - he is accused of acting out of character...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: autolycus
Date: 25 May 06 - 04:43 AM

Of course Fergie doesn't want Rooney to go - they have the Premiership to win. Just the old club v. country conundrum.


   As for Sven, "you can't please all the people all the time." Whatever anyone in the public eye does, there will be someone criticising what they do. I think it's important to say each time WHO is making the criticism. If it's a tabloid journalist, I'd fall back in amazement.    Not. If it's a Phd in Football Studies, a football supporter, a manager, a psychologist etc.etc., well that matters in evaluating the comments.

   And people are tricky. Someone at work asked me who I thought would win the World Cup. I said Brazil. He replied "You're not very patriotic". I was answering the question he asked , not who did I want to win.

Later the same chap asked a Portuguese who he thought would win, and on getting the reply"Portugal", he replied,"That's just a pipe-dream."

That's why we shouldn't worry overly over every criticism.


   


       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 25 May 06 - 07:14 AM

Quite right. I want England to win it, but hand on heart, I can't see it happening. Brazil have the most exceptional players and they have reserves for all of them. I am not saying they are unbeatable, just that they are likely to beat anyone on a sunny pitch given normal luck.
At the moment, Germany is cold and windy and rainy. If it stays like this for all of England's games, I for one, will not be complaining!
Alex Ferguson is a Scot, whose job it is to win the League with Manchester United. He does not want one of his most precious assets risked on England's behalf in any event.
Let's just hope Michael Owen has recovered and stays injury free.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: fat B****rd
Date: 26 May 06 - 03:01 PM

Last I heard young Rooney's going to miss the first few games. Let's hope there's a second few games for him to be wonderful.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 May 06 - 09:16 PM

I was talking to my son about this - the main thing for him is that the players from the club he supports should do well, whichever country they are playing for. Club loyalties tend to be much stronger than national loyalties.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 May 06 - 05:53 AM

I love the Kellogs world cup bowls - must get some!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 06 - 03:01 AM

Watch ebay, they are turning up there already !

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 May 06 - 09:22 PM

You mean the ones you get for free if you buy a couple of packs of cornflakes? I'd have thought postage on ebay would come to more than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 29 May 06 - 10:42 AM

Is it just me or was Belarus trying to injure the England players? I only caught highlinght snippets, but I was wishing Keane (is he even on the squad? must check it out) and Rooney had been on the pitch to give them Ruskies back some of their thuggery.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 29 May 06 - 10:49 AM

I checked... nope. I see that Rooney's scan has been upped to June 7 so he can be replaced if not healthy. That doesn't sound too good to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 29 May 06 - 11:51 AM

Keane (I presume you're refering to Roy that played for ManU and now Celtic and not Robbie who plays for Tottenham) is an Irishman, gnu, so he wouldn't be in the squad. Robbie's Irish too ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 May 06 - 03:22 PM

was it last world cup or the world cup before where Roy went off with the Irish team and then had an argument with the manager and wouldn't play?

I can remember the gig I was doing that night, but I can't remember what year it was.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 29 May 06 - 03:50 PM

2002.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 29 May 06 - 04:22 PM

I have NO excuse. Of course he is. I guess I was just wishing that he had been in that Belarus game to get a red card and send those bastards a message. Same thing with wishing Rooney had been there. He might be a Brit by birth, but I've seen him give up a good cross to smack a thug in the face and be high fived by Keane upon doing so... so, I conider him "kinda" Irish, if not by name, by action.

Hmmm... seems to me it was an eastern European Rooney "smacked" that particular time I am thinking of. Tall, blonde headed fellow. Nailed him square in the gob with the ball. And, got the throw-in.

When Keane screwed off from the last cup, I suspect it was all about money. Can't blame him, or the "game". Why risk injury if there is little chance of winning?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 29 May 06 - 05:46 PM

Gnu I think maybe you should read what the man had to say for himself about the incident here . Money didn't enter into the equation. In truth I don't think it can be said that he screwed off. Things were said that he couldn't put up with and the rest is history. I truely believe with Keane in the team Ireland could have reached at least the semi finals of the last world cup.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 29 May 06 - 05:50 PM

Oops didn't sign in. The guest above was me.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 29 May 06 - 06:24 PM

This is an interesting article on the German view of the beautiful game and the significance of the World Cup.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 30 May 06 - 12:36 AM

Den : "I truely believe with Keane in the team Ireland could have reached at least the semi finals of the last world cup."

Well, we'll never know if Ireland was injured.

BTW, don't listen to me. I know very little of this. I just know who I like to watch play. I defer to the experts who have posted here... and I'll try to keep my gob shut.

Thanks for the link.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 May 06 - 02:08 AM

I'm no expert either, but I was in a pub full of Irishmen in Derby that night, or maybe it was the night before Ireland entered the fray. they all seemed to be experts. Some blamed Keane - most blamed the manager, but said he should have played, whatever the justification. Everybody said the Irish team was a weaker team because of his absence.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 30 May 06 - 04:39 AM

3,000 English football fans have had their passports confiscated by the police to stop them going to the World Cup !

There are countries who don't even have that many supporters!

Shows the world the unacceptable level of English thugs in football.

When is Colditz opening to accept those that are going over !

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 30 May 06 - 11:19 AM

Guest, if you going to insist on stirring it, please present the facts. There are a total of 3,826 people in the UK who have been placed on a 'watch list' for football-related mischief (population of the UK is just over 60 million) 200 deemed high-risk in Wales have been issued notices they will have to hand in their passports to police before the World Cup. Wales. You heard of it? It's not England.

more accurate story here

It's a preventative measure. It is intended to anticipate and prevent naughtiness.

I for one am not sorry a lack of violence will ruin your World Cup.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 30 May 06 - 11:28 AM

More accurate -- and clickable! -- story here

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 30 May 06 - 12:20 PM

TheBigPinkLad So we can look forward to a great World Cup and the English Supporters behaving impecably whilst in Germany?

Thanks that's great news.

Wouldn't call some of the scenes from previous English supporters visits to Europe shown on Yorkshire Television two weeks ago NAUGHTINESS though, seemed a little more, what's the word I'm looking for ?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 30 May 06 - 12:47 PM

Could you id yourself with a name, dude? You can make up a pretend name ... it's just that I wouldn't want to confuse you with a different Guest that was less parochial and had sound logic.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 30 May 06 - 02:04 PM

...or had anything to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 May 06 - 05:41 PM

Never worth paying any attention to nameless Ghosts. Why even bother?

As for gnu's suggestion that a defining characteristic of Irish players is thuggery, that's rubbish.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 31 May 06 - 03:20 AM

I see Peter Crouch scored a good striker's goal against Hungary.

No one seemed to mention the part played in this goal by young Walcott, whose movement created the space for Crouch.

Joe Cole deserves a bit of credit too.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 May 06 - 08:17 AM

"Come on Aussie, Come On, Come On!"

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 31 May 06 - 11:12 AM

Enjoyed the game, although Hungary weren't exactly top opposition they gave England a good work out. Lampard must feel a prat, but let's hope it's not foreshadowing. Peter Crouch. I don't know what to say. He's just ... wrong ... but ...?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 31 May 06 - 11:21 AM

Lampard must have felt a prat, but it is a misfortune suffered by many to muff a penalty. Justice was done though, because a better placed referee would have booked Steve Gerrard for the dive, which brought it about. You can't read too much into these warm up games. All the same, there did not look to be much wrong with David Beckham's dead ball kicking last night.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 31 May 06 - 11:33 AM

Yes, I think there can't be many better at the dead ball cross than Beckham. I think it could be particularly effective when Crouch is the obvious distraction and Owen is scuttling through the undergrowth. Beckham's precision is up there with Liam Brady from the 70s Arsenal side. He could drop the ball on a sixpence 40 yards away whilst in motion.

The consensus now is that Sven's choice against Jamaica will be the one to start against Paraguay. I still have difficulty figuring the bloke out ...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,quarcoo
Date: 31 May 06 - 11:35 AM

soccer is getting so serious these days that for me the game is losing its flavour.

who knows,very soon we might have cloned players,because i just couldn't that rooney is going to be put in a "oxygyen room".(correct me if i am wrong) but can't the guy be allowed to recover naturally.

i hope my country Ghana does well and good luck to all the teams.

Quarcoo.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 31 May 06 - 11:54 AM

They had tried an oxygen chamber to assist with his recovery but it only lasted twenty minutes. He didn't like it so they stopped.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 May 06 - 12:03 PM

I can't remember a time when football wasn't taken very seriously. I think it goes back to the time when Peter Dimmock used to introduce Grandstand. In those days, they didn't have the technology for actually showing sport, so they used to fill the half hour with posh gits in suits talking bollocks in a very self important fashion.

It was a bit like the Radio 4 Today programme, only not so light hearted.

A sports programme with no sport in it. Only the English would have stood for it. Its wonder they didn't make us queue up in our own houses to see it.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 31 May 06 - 12:04 PM

It's a popular (though unproven) therapy with injured hockey players over here in Canada and the US. The theory is that an oxygen-rich environment helps speed up the body's natural healing process. I believe they took a 'it can't do any harm' approach but as Den says, Rooney didn't care for it at all and they stopped it.

Quarcoo, I'm looking forward to seeing Ghana in action. Good luck!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 31 May 06 - 12:16 PM

All the signs are that Rooney will not be there. He got the injury less than a month ago. A similar injury much longer before the last World Cup afflicted Beckham last time around. Michael Owen had a similar injury just before Christmas. It will be a near thing even for him to get back to the required fitness level in time.
I recall the team of 1986 performing better once they had faced the fact that their talisman of the day (Bryan Robson) was not going to play any further part in the proceedings. It is a blow not having the most exciting striker in the country available, but we do not have a God given right to expect two world class strikers to be available all the time. Portugal 2004 ought to have cured us of that vanity. Indeed, it is very rare for any team manager to have all of their first choice players fit at any one time. Eight or nine fit and in form is a good hand.
At the end of the day, England has the best set of players available since I have followed football. If they all suddenly come into form and gel as a team at the same time, (as happened in 1990)great things could happen. They will need luck, the right weather and to develop that extra something, which turns good players into great teams. That can happen over the course of a tournament. There will be no way of saying how likely that is until the latter stages of the tournament. Let's hope England are there!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 31 May 06 - 01:04 PM

McGrath : "As for gnu's suggestion that a defining characteristic of Irish players is thuggery, that's rubbish."

I agree. That IS rubbish. I never said it or even suggested it. I said I thought the Ruskies (Belarus) were deliberately out to injure the England players and Keane and Rooney would have given them back a taste of their own medicine... as I have seen both of them do in the past.

I called the Ruskies thugs. I call Keane and Rooney fine players who don't take no shit from no man.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 31 May 06 - 01:32 PM

I agree with Kevin that thuggery is not a defining characteristic of Irish players (quite the opposite), but I wouldn't be so quick to exclude the trait from Roy Keane. However, I would not tell him to his face. ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 31 May 06 - 02:05 PM

The majority of Irish footballers relied on skill, Blanchflower, McIroy,
Best,Duff, Eglington,and numerous others, I don`t doubt Roy Keanes ability as player, but he was undoubtely a thug.
I noticed a dive by Gerrard for England`s penalty, never a mention from the one-eyed TV commentator Jogn Motson, he of course mentioned the Hungarian goalkeepers movement before he saved the penalty, Terry Butcher the former England player castigated Gerrard for the dive.
Motson is one very good reason we are thankful for having Irish TV for the World Cup.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 31 May 06 - 02:53 PM

Motson's not my fave commentator either. He got his 'big break' commenting on the early 70s match between Newcastle and non-league Hereford when the minnows beat the giants. He must have referenced the game a thousand times since. Very grating for a Toon fan like myself.

On the other hand, what about Ireland's 'Old-Onion-Bag' Smithy? How would you like to be trapped in a room with the two of them? ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 31 May 06 - 02:58 PM

Keane a thug? Now lads that's a bit strong. How about intense, can we compromise?

The Hungarian keeper can move to his heart's content as long as its laterally along the goal line. Gerrard should be ashamed of himself. Does he have no understanding of the concept friendly.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 31 May 06 - 04:29 PM

I might be alone in this but I'm fairly sure Gerrard was clipped. I taped the game and have watched the incident a dozen times. As an expert of the Francis Lee School of Getting a Bogus Penalty, I can assure you the body language didn't indicate a classic dive. That's not to say he didn't clip ,i.himself mind ...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 31 May 06 - 04:38 PM

Have you been talking to Motson?.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 31 May 06 - 05:28 PM

Only once, in the social club at Airesome Park in 1975 ... what did he have to say about it?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 31 May 06 - 06:16 PM

My favourite "Keane" of all times was late one game when the lads were down by a goal. A throw-in, to be taken by Keane, was delayed because one of the opposition kicked the ball away from him, off the pitch, as he about to pick it up. He received another ball and promptly threw it as hard as he possibly could, perhaps harder due to the circumstances, and nailed the offender kitty-corner in the side of the head as he was walking away. Lovely red card, in my opinion. But, I am of Irish decent.

For those that would say it was a sillyenalty, given the lack of time left in the game, I might agree. On the other hand, given that the offender was not penalized and time was not added for obvious poor sportsmanship and for delay, I might have considered nailing the ref. After all, not only am I of Irish decent, I am also Canadian.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 31 May 06 - 06:26 PM

The incident you are referring to Gnu was a game against Newcastle United and the one he nailed with the ball was Saint Alan Shearer who would have to shoot someone to be sent off and the referee would still have to confer with his assistants. You're memory of events is close to being right. There was about three minutes left in the game United were down. Keane went to take a throw-in and as he brought his arms back to throw the ball Shearer knocked it out of his hands. Whereupon Keane picked up the ball and nailed Shearer on the side of the head. Now why oh why if the referee is following the laws of the game. Why was Shearer not booked atleast?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 31 May 06 - 06:49 PM

Piss-poor memory both of you! Keene didn't throw the ball, or otherwise make contact. He got suckered into taking a swing, which Shearer stepped back from. One of my favourite red cards. Well deserved. ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 31 May 06 - 06:50 PM

There's footage here of the incident just after Shearer knocks the ball out of his hands. Like I said he's intense.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 31 May 06 - 06:57 PM

BPL between us we're right. He got the red card for taking a swing at Shearer. He did nail him with the ball though. But what about Shearers innocense in all of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 May 06 - 08:49 PM

I didn't take anything gnu wrote as intended to be anti-Irish, but that wasn't the point.

It all depends how you define thuggery. "A taste of their own medicine" would fall within my definition. It might sometimes be possible to excuse it as a weakness, but never to applaud it as a strength, let alone to present it as a national characteristic.

Being complimented for a fault can be worse than an insult. Doubly so when you don't actually have that fault - and I would think that Roy Keane is about as characteristically Irish in this as he was in his petulent treachery when he let Ireland down so badly by deserting his teammates.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 31 May 06 - 09:31 PM

Yeah but McGrath that's kind of how we're portrayed in the media. You know "fighting spirit" and all that. "The lucky Irish, we're just glad to be here".

I think that was Keane's point and takes into account his fight with McCarthy. We're here because we qualified, we're not here to make up the numbers. We're a team that has to be beaten.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 12:34 PM

Talking of great Irish players, remember Kevin Sheedy? He could make the flight of the ball bend really dramatically. I never saw anybody do that as well as him.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 01:12 PM

Portrayed in the media? That would include being drunk, dirty, stupid, murderous and unreliable. Wouldn't it be a great idea to try to live up to that sparkling image?

As for Roy Keane - he did his best to to make sure that the Irish team would be beaten. Never to be trusted again, I hope.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 01:39 PM

Yes he certainly let down the Irish team in their hour of need, and I can recall that vicious assault on Alf Harrland of Man City, Alf still removing Keane`s toe-nails from his shattered knee.    Saint` elbows` Shearer another player who could dish it out but whinged when he had a taste of his own medicine, he got away with kicking Neil Lennon in the face and met his match when he tangled with Grimsby`s sentre half, who could forget his crying to the ref after taking a well aimed elbow.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 02:17 PM

I feel I have to defend Keane somewhat again. Have any of you read his interview with the Irish Times or seen his interview on RTE. McCarthy accused him of feigning injury after the first play-off game against Iran, in front of the whole team. That was when the dam burst and the rest is history. Keane has maintained if his talk with McCarthy had taken place privately none of this would have happened.

The Irish team flew coach to Japan while officials from the FAI sat in first class. When they got to their training camp there was no equipment. No balls, no uniforms, no boots and none of the specially made fluids that they needed to drink to help them acclimatize. The training pitch itself was in a disgraceful condition. Hard as a rock and patchy grass. McCarthy hadn't even checked into the training pitch before they left Ireland. When the equipment eventually arrived two days later. In the meantime some of the players had been out partying because there was nothing to do. McCarthy hadn't called for a curfew. Keane said he wasn't pleased with that either but he was willing to give those players a break.

Three players injured themselves on the first day of training because of the pich surface. Keane said he felt it was his duty as captain of the team to speak out and he talked to McCarthy privately about it. He said McCarthy's attitude seemed to be "oh well we got here lets have a bit of fun". Keane said that this seemed to be the overall attitude of the staff and officials. He said that wasn't good enough for him. He felt that the Irish team deserved to be there and that they could compete. He said he was there to win. He was interviewed over the phone by a reporter from the Irish Times and spoke candidly about the shoddy conditions the players had to endure. McCarthy read the interview took acception called a players meeting and made his accusations to Keane.

Now do you think that that is the way the England team eg would prepare for the world cup? Do you think they'd fly coach? No they fly on a private jet. Do you think that Erickson would have his players train on a pitch that hadn't been closely scrutinized months in advance?

Since Keane's outburst things have certainly changed at the FAI so much so that he came out of retirement to play for Brian Kerr.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 03:15 PM

So how many players followed Keane home?.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 03:32 PM

McGrath... Point well made. Thank you for clarifying. I understand your point of view. I agree that "stooping to another's level" degrades oneself. I agree that generalizations are just outright wrong.

On the other hand, I also believe that one should never allow another to take advantage, bully or injure. The fact that Keane and others have sometimes taken on the role of what we Canucks call, in the game of ice hockey, an "enforcer", I applaud. Of course, I do not speak on the part of anyone else, and my inference was incorrect and untoward. My apologies.

I realize that I have said what may appear to be conflicting statements regarding "stooping" and "enforcing". I believe they are not in conflict. It is one thing to "stoop" and clearly another to "stop".

Anyway, I hope I haven't offended anyone too much. I am looking forward to some exciting football. I just hope the ref'ing staff stay on top of things.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 03:39 PM

How many of them were called liars by McCarthy?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 04:24 PM

OK, I won't have a word said against McCarthy ... he did a bang up job at Sunderland! ;o)

The refereeing should be good, gnu, as the officials are all seasoned fellas. The problems is they are seasoned in leagues of vastly differing quality so there will inevitably be some cock-ups. I suppose each of us will find fault with the bastard that gives a crappy decision against our team.

There's usually an over-the-top enforcement of rules in the first round, just to show everyone they'll not be f*cked about with, then they relax a bit in the later stages.

The Irish lads will remember the ref booking Jack Charlton (the Ireland coach) for giving a mouthful to the fourth official. Classic Jack.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 05:48 PM

Even if all that was true, and if there wasn't any other side to it, it wouldn't excuse Roy Keane deserting his team. And how can anyone trust the word of a man who would do that?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 06:42 PM

He didn't desert the team McCarthy sent him home.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Jun 06 - 05:10 AM

Did anyone see Brazil's latest warm-up game against a French club side?

They have two world class players for every position, they are all fit and it is difficult to see how they could possibly play any better.

Which strangely could work in favour of teams that know they will have to improve even to give Brazil a match - let alone beat them.......

Or are they really unbeatable?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 02 Jun 06 - 05:26 AM

OK, I'll take the fun out for you by telling you what will happen. Some German economists have mathematically modeled the tournament (enter into the model: present economic worth of players, add some corrections for level of payment varying from country to country, add a slight home team bonus and some other arcane corrections and hit on the result button):

Brazil will beat Italy in the final, England will beat Holland (who has eliminated Germany by the way in the quarter finals) for third place.

That's it. Well, the model could not have predicted the result of the last European contest and close to none of the past finals but who cares about reality when having a beautiful model?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jun 06 - 05:57 AM

You're just trying to make us feel better, it's got to be the home side....

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 02 Jun 06 - 07:43 AM

Do you know who is playing for Germany this time around this time WLD? There is little there for even Plymouth Argyle to fear. Japan were very unlucky to get only a draw. I suppose Germany could improve as the tournament goes on. They will have to though!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jun 06 - 07:57 AM

they always start every tournament with that line of bullshit. then gasps of surprise all round, they win....

Denise thinks Ballach has not just sexy knees, he is sexy all over. need I say more......

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 02 Jun 06 - 11:39 AM

But does he have golden balls?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 02 Jun 06 - 12:41 PM

Al -I've seen 'em - and believe me, I am more frightened for them than I am of them!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jun 06 - 01:17 PM

well BPL, I did think of writing a song on the subject, to the tune of Keep On Trucking

I'm mad about Ballach's bollocks
Man, they're just the job
I'm crazy for Ballach's bollocks
He's got one , each side of his nob
They jiggle about with every kick
Two strong legs, and a nice long .....
That's the kind of stuff I like
Shake 'em for the ladies Mike!

another neglected masterpiece!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 02 Jun 06 - 02:03 PM

How about moneybags Abramovich buys a team with Ricardo Kaka, Doudou [Ebeu Mbombo], Ballack, Danny Shittu and Bernt Haas. Do you think you could work up a song with those players, WLD?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 02 Jun 06 - 02:10 PM

Jaysus, this thread has taken a disturbing twist;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 02 Jun 06 - 02:27 PM

Nervous apprehension, Den ;o) I'm trying to grow my fingernals long so I have something to bite. As I live in Canada I have to go through the Stanley Cup* final as well. I hope I have enough calcium in reserve.

The Rooney situation is looking brighter today according to the BBC website. Any up-to-the-minute news on that?

* who you shouting for, gnu?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jun 06 - 06:42 PM

OILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How could you not know that? Oh... sorry... yer just yankin my chain.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jun 06 - 09:03 PM

no but I think I'll record Michael Ballach's Bollocks and put it on the website.

I think its catchy.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 03 Jun 06 - 09:23 AM

How about two outstanding English players, Shirtliff and Windass. Ufarte of Spain raised a stink or two.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 03:12 AM

Talking of names. What do you think of a Brazilian player called - FRED?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: autolycus
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 06:25 AM

Don't tell me, let me guess.

    Got it.


   This is a thread about football.

   Am I right or am I right?




    Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 07:32 AM

well sure but international football is a bit Jesus dad's house, it has many mansions -and we are amusing ourelves in the garage.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 08:26 PM

Okay got it down sort of today
A hymn of admiration Michael Ballach's Bollocks

http://bigalwhittle.co.uk/id12.html

Its a bit like that Monty Python thing about Mr Smoke Too Much

would they noticed if his name was Mike Knacker, or Mike Testicle?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 02:40 AM

Erm, I trust the spelling was a deliberate ploy to ward off lawsuits! Folks, listen in to a song, which you may not hear getting heavy airtime on the BBC...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 05:09 AM

thanks guys for the insight into this oxygyen therapy.

i can't wait for our team to thrash the US. oh boy! that will be the day and possibly the English team.that will be sweet.

but i didn't think the Reggae Boys were such a lousy side .how could they allow themselves to be thrashed 6-0. they made our 4-1 look like something else.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 05:49 AM

I don't think there are going to be a lot of thrashings in the tournament quarcoo. The US are currently rated above England, I believe and they are on their way to joining the ranks of the top teams. I don't think anyone is going to get an easy game against the African teams either. There do not seem to be any real minnows any more. Japan got a draw against Germany last week after leading them by two nil. Australia drew against a powerful Netherlands team yesterday.
I will be very glad if England can win games by a one goal margin. The thing that makes football so exciting, is that even if you totally outplay the opposition, you still need a bit of luck for the goals to actually go in.
I reckon at least one African team will make the quarter finals - and any side - even England or Holland - could be proud of getting that far. I also do not believe that any team will reach the final without winning a tie on penalties. That does not bode well for England... How good are Ghana at penalties?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 06:10 AM

well,alanabit, we are not very good at penalties. every Ghanaian who plays soccer will testify to this. we hate penalties.football should be determined with real play.

but somehow you are right its going to be tough at this world cup but i believe an African can make it past the quarter-finals stage and possibly even the grand-finals.i couldn't believe that we were able to beat the Koreans by 3-1. it is certainly going to be exciting.

so which team are you supporting?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 07:30 AM

I'm an England fan, Quarcoo. We will have to see if the best players, whom I have ever seen in England shirts, will get that essential rhythm and team harmony. If they do, they have a chance against anyone.
I share your distaste for penalties. The problem is, replays would present such huge organisational problems. In England, in the early seventies, some FA games went to several replays. You have to have something, which guarantees a result. Most of us reckon that even penalties are better than tossing a coin though.
On talent available, the Brazilians should walk it. That could be their downfall though. They do like walking and doing lots of fancy tricks with the ball. On a cold, wet pitch, against say, an in form Czech Republic, that could get them into trouble!
I think Australia could do a lot better than many people think. The USA could possibly reach the semi final again. Of the African sides, I fancy the Ivory Coast and Ghana to do well.
At the end of the day, I can't see anyone winning it without a lot of discipline and a large helping of good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 07:40 AM

I slilpped up there. I said the USA could reach the semi final again. Of course, they have reached the quarter final in the past.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 06:14 PM

Tell you what Al - I think that keep on trucking in E really worked.

I played the original accompaniment using E , C sharp 7, F sharp - all those big open strings.

and then capoed 4 and played the same old Donovan c, G, A7 shapes.

I was really chuffed with that.

No takers as of today - still one casts ones bread on the waters.....

English team flew out today. Some very exotic spellings of Paraguay - chalked outside English pubs. Newspaper yesterday had a picture of a couple of English players on the front - Headline - THE ENGLISH WARRIORS - so the usual jingoistic nationalistic claptrap kicks into gear. If patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel - its certainly the first port of call for tabloid newspapers.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 07:22 PM

Rather entertaining story here.

Apparently McDonalds ran a competition for children, with the prize for the winning child being to get to the World Cup Final as one of the mascots who go out onto the pitch holding the hand of a player.

Only thing is they ran it on a UK basis, rather than just for McDonalds eateries in England - and the winner was a six-year old Scot called Connor, with a granny in Ukraine.

"I want Ukraine to win but I think Brazil will do it. I don't want England in the final. I don't want them to win."

Now in the fairly remote likelihood that England makes it to the final, who'd envy the lucky England player who'd have to have to offer to hold Connor's hand?... He'll probably kick his shins.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 02:16 AM

If patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel - its certainly the first port of call for tabloid newspapers.

That is the sad thing about World Cups and England's (or any of the home teams) involvement in the final stages.

Those who appreciate international football as the best and the World Cup as a measure of this - whoever is playing - are caught up in the partisan and blind support that is usually associated with clubs sides and find ourselves drowning in a sea of flags, T shirts and silly hats. The reasons for this has little to do with football.

None of the players are warriors and although some form of bravery will be shown - this is not conflict and any attemps to portray it as this should be taken issue with. It is not as if the world is lacking in real conflict or has a shortage of real warriors.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 05:23 AM

I think the Brazilians toughest test will come against an African team. from the way I look at it African appreciation of football is very much like the South American style of play. remember how Nigeria beat Brazil and Argentina to win the gold medal at the 1996 Atlanta olympic games. African teams fumbles a lot with European teams but not South America.

the US is highly unpredictable,when you expect them to perform they don't,when you don't expect them they do.and that is a dangerous side you can never tell when they are going to be tough.

I hope this time round the English commentators don't make too much noise about one player.last world cup it was Beckham,this time it might be Rooney.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 07:43 AM

I don't think the English can bark too much about Wayne Rooney, Quarcoo. He is not going to play any full games. He has not been part of the build up, and England will be better off even with a lesser player, who has been worked in. If England make it to the second half of the tournament, they will not want to change a winning side. Even a fit Rooney would only be brought on as a joker if they were trying to save a match, which looked lost.
England, if they make it through the group stage, will almost play against Germany in the second round. Both sides should get through, but it is unlikely that both will win their groups. That means a clash is near inevitable. On pure footballing ability, England should well have the measure of these Germans. However, it is being played in front of fans, for whom defeat is unthinkable at the early stages. It looks like a very tough test of English nerves. I should not be worrying about that though. There are no easy rides for anyone, even in the group matches!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 09:18 AM

sorry about getting the name wrong. Bollochs!
thanks Al for telling me

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 01:54 PM

I see the Brazilian coach has issued a plea to FIFA to make sure his team and 'other South American teams' are not subjected to 'violence,' by which he means, apparently, don't let the Australians kick the crap out of my players. Bit cheesey to be using gamesmanship to thwart gamesmanship isn't it?

Interesting results at the weekend. The Africans did much better than I expected. Perhaps we will have some upsets after all!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 04:26 PM

I'll go along with that, BPL, because I have seen the Brazilians and the Argentinians as capable of dishing out violence as anyone else. I don't think the Argentinians would want to be reminded of their performance in the World Cup final of 1990. There are no teams who are not averse to a little shirt pulling and off the ball thuggery - as long as they think they can get away with it. Unfortunately England are not an exception.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 03:03 AM

The 'fairplay' award was started in 1978 when the winners were Argentina.

Brazil have won it 3 times - 1982,1986, and 1994.
England 2 times - 1990 and (jointly with France) in 1998.
And Belgium in 2002.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 01:14 PM

You mean Turkey has never won it? I'm shocked ... ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 03:28 PM

Police mount hooligan crackdown
British Transport Police bound for Frankfurt talk to police at Heathrow
It is hoped the police operation will stop troublemakers travelling
Police have arrested 15 people at ports or airports as they tried to travel to Germany for the World Cup as part of a crackdown on English hooligans.

Officers used powers in the Football Disorder Act (2000), which allows the arrest of possible troublemakers who have not been given banning orders.

Up to 200 fans with banning orders did not give up their passports before last week's deadline, the Home Office said.

If arrested, they could be jailed for six months and fined £5,000.

About 3,500 people have been subjected to banning orders.

The details of those who have should have handed in their passports have been passed to port authorities in the UK and Europe, according to the Home Office. known hooligans has evaded the security operation after travelling in defiance of a banning order.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 04:19 PM

From the Beeb, late Wednesday:

Rooney appears to have won the race to prove his fitness after breaking a metatarsal in his right foot while playing for Manchester United in April.

Good news indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 08:51 PM

It must be a bit sad for the Yanks knowing there's a huge country back there that doesn't evidently give a bugger how they do...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 11:54 PM

Theres a fair number of English people who are pretty indifferent. I'm having trouble working the requisite amopunt of concern about this bloke Rooney's foot.

I've seen the X-rays like everyone else. But it doesn't seem very sensible to me, if your foot is poorly to play football. You might start off worse trouble and arthritis could set in. No, the sensible thing is to sit this one out.

I simple don't believe, there isn't anybody else amongst all the footballers in England.

Coupled with fact is the general consensus that come world cup time, our brave sensitive flowers of English manhood will be climbing into the ring with the dirtiest playing sods in the universe.

I don't reckon Rooney's meta tarsals don't stand a chance. they'll be queuing up to jump on them. It'll be Henry Cooper's eyes all over again.

For those too young to remember - Our 'Enery was a boxer who used to climb into the ring to get clobbered by Mohammed Ali, only the skin above his eyes spurted blood when the wind blew inclemently in his direction. Boxing commentator Harry Carpenter used to have this special funereal voice that he used for every ritual pasting Ali handed out. These sporting events were keenly enjoyed, despite a certain predictability over the outcome.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 01:56 AM

Had the Fair Play award been around in 1966 - would its winners (along with the World Cup itself that year) have been England - with the likes of Nobby Stiles in their ranks?

I tend to think of that year's finals as being the roughest - with Pele being allowed to be largely kicked out of it, but was it?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 03:19 AM

Yes, I think there was plenty of rough stuff dished out in 1966. I thought the Argentine side of 1990 was pretty horrible. Some of their tackling tested the legal definitions of assault. I don't think Turkey will be remembered for "the beautiful game" after their efforts in the last World Cup either. With sides like Argentina, Italy and some of the other South Americans, you never know what to expect. They can be wonderful to watch and they have the technique to win and keep the ball without being unduly physical. I am optimistic. There are some wonderful footballers around this time and the only really clear favourites are Brazil. I reckon another skillful, attractive side will emerge. Maybe it will be the new Holland, or given a good run, even England. Roll on Friday!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 01:23 PM

Awful to see Cisse break his leg yesterday, you have to feel sorry for the lad, both on the painful brak and the fact it takes him out of the tournament. Likewise, now that Rooney is in, Defoe has to go home. Poor bugger.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 03:50 PM

Of course when English players do it, it's "robust physical play" and jokes about "getting your retaliation in first", and constant accusations about dives by the other side when players are brought down by professional fouls.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 04:14 PM

A nice touch I think to have the minute's silence before the Germany - Costa Rica game for all those associated with the game that have died in the past year, including Brazilian Tele Santana, Scotland's Jimmy Johnstone, Northern Ireland's George Best and England's Ron Greenwood, Johnny Haynes and Peter Osgood.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 07:19 PM

And come on Costa Rica!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 11:43 AM

Yes it should be a gala event, with Steven Gerrard diving !

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 02:19 PM

The German defence looked very suspect against a Costa Rica side that seemed to run out of energy very quickly and run out of ideas even quicker. The fact this limited team were able to score two goals from just about their only attack on goal must be very worrying to anyone supporting the German team.

The two long range efforts were good strikes but the way this ball moved about must be be of concern to any goalkeeper. I thought it was a good opening game but a very funny opening ceremony.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 02:29 PM

Well i would call that classic German opening gambit.

looking cack handed against a world class team, yet still staying two goals ahead for most of the game - fairly effortlessly, and everybody saying - they're not all that good - up to about the semi-finals.

I still reckon the rest of the world might as well pack up and go home. They've got this one well in their sights.

Pow!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 02:34 PM

Great start! Loads of goals, loads of jitters, loads of fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 02:35 PM

Four shots on goal and two scores. You can say such a stat makes the defense suspect or you can say the defense must be great to only allow four shots on goal. And three corners. And 11 fouls (vs 15). No cautions. No expulsions.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 02:39 PM

I thought I saw one yellow card for a Costa Rica player. It was more fun to watch than had I expected. There were some spectacular goals and Costa Rica got on the score sheet, although the result was never in question. We will see better and worse games, but I can't think of many World Cup openers, which were more enjoyable to watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 03:32 PM

...they have a young defense as full of holes as a Swiss cheese I said about our team some days up this thread. Four years ago they allowed only one single goal before the final and this time two in the first (easy) game. That'll go disastrously wrong against a better team than Costa Rica.

All in all it was a delightful game to watch, the opener with most goals after the war. I consider the way our team plays quite unusual for a German team: Who cares about a defense as long as we still score more goals than them. It won't go well.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Spot
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 04:43 PM

Allo everybody...
                   World Cup? Footie?? Woss all this then?    :-)

Personally , I don't give a flyin' fig about any of it..... BUT...I do sincerely hope everyone involved has a bloody good time with it, nobody gets hurt, nobody fights,sportsmanship is the order of the day and the winners win in a "right and proper" fashion!!
                  
                   Best Regards to all, as ever, Spot.
   
    (commiserations to losers - a shame there has to be so many!!)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 05:02 PM

After a 2 - 0 defeat - Poland will have to beat Germany to stand any chance of progressing. On the two performances we have seem so far, it has to be said that Germany do look more likely to progress and as with 3 points already, they would only really need a draw.

I thought Poland were realy poor and Equador did deserve their win but from this group it is only Germany who have any chance of getting to the later stages.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 05:32 PM

Poles must be sick about hitting the woodwork twice, but those two constituted 66% of their total shots on goal!

Thanks, Spot. I'm sure it will be the usual mangling between bliss and torture. As the Canadian commentator said just before it all kicked off this morning, "32 teams, 31 losers." Ouch.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 07:04 PM

Everything I have seen has gone off in a good spirit so far. The weather has been nice and everyone seems to be having a good time. Like Wolfgang, I can envisage problems for the Germans later on with that defence. However, they were entertaining today and they will probably play better as the opposition improves. It looks like there is plenty to look forward to. When did a World Cup last start off with eight goals in two games?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 07:25 AM

The ABC NAtional Radio Network here in Australia held a competition.

Allegedly when out boys take the field, up will go the chant to a well known tune...

He's so cool, Harry Kewell,
Harry Kewell, Harry Kewell.
Harry Kewell, Harry Ke-well,
Harry Kewell, Harry Kewell.

if the poor bugger is fit enough to get on the field...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 10:51 AM

If any of you missed England's opening match, don't despair.
They had to depend on an own goal to win the match. They also picked up two yellow cards. I don't think I ever saw anyone as awkward as the young giraffe England had in the forward line.

The referee was excellent though. If you have expectations for this team, forget them.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 11:04 AM

Crarp!Crap!Crap! The most gifted squad England has ever sent to the World Cup, made complete fools of themselves. Still, it is not the worst performance ever by an England side. It is also to be expected that they will improve. One hopes they can not play like that again. I think that as the opposition improves, so will England. I thought Peter Crouch put in plenty of effort, but he has no chance of getting on the end of anything, if England continue to hack up gormless high balls into the air and constantly present the ball to the opposition. It was a surprise when Michael Owen went off, because I don't think he did enough to make anyone notice he was playing.
England began 1966 with a dreadful draw against Uraguay, the European Championship of 1996 with a poor draw against Switzerland and the last World Cup with a pathetic second half surrender to Sweden. There is hope yet. England have three points. They must get better. They can get better.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 09:05 PM

GUEST : "The referee was excellent though."

Hahahahaha. Great joke. Have you ever seen anything so fucking pathetic? Joe Cole gets head butted from behind and draws a foul? And... well, if you watched the game, it was evident that the Ref was a twit. Maybe he had a cold and was actually not blowing the whistle every two minutes... just coughing.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Susan A-R
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 11:37 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Susan A-R
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 11:39 AM

RATS! Wrong button. I mayt actually be where there's a tlevision this week, AND US mainstream TV is actually covering this, so I'm hoping to get in a game around the music. (off to fiddle camp for the week) I'll probably root for the underdog (who was it that beat Sweeden?)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 02:29 PM

Nobody Susan. Trinidad and Tobago, thanks to excellent goalkeeping and a spirited display all round, got a goalless draw with Sweden. Sweden looked better getting a draw in their game than England did when winning. If it is still hot, put your money on the Carribean side for Thursday's match. I'll be rooting for England, but they are going to have a hard time of it either way. England have to go for a win, because they simply don't beat Sweden, or at least, they have not for nearly forty years.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 06:28 PM

It was the usual opening game performance from England. The only suprise (to me) was that they managed to hang on in the second half and win and now have 3 points.

Things can only get better - and performance-wise they really must if they are to stand any chance of winning.

Ivory Coast and Angola played well and were unlucky to to lose against Argentina (who look like the only possible winners from what we have seen so far) and Portugal but they may get better results against the other teams in their groups.

Generally (apart from the England one) the games have been good to watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Les from Hull
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 06:29 PM

Well we once beat them 7-0. Mind you that was in 1909!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 07:07 PM

The best bet for an outsider to win would be Ivory Coast on present showing.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 06:33 AM

can anybody explain why the Brazilians always get a moderate group?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 06:40 AM

people are talking about how well the African teams played over the weekend.football is about goals and if u can't score you are not good enough, period!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 07:04 AM

The best result of the weekend games from a German point of view was Mexico beating Iran. A big sigh of relief was heard.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 08:23 AM

Come On Aussie, Come On...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 08:52 AM

Hey Les, any chance of getting some of the class of 1909 out again? They might have more life in them than the blokes who showed up on Saturday!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Les from Hull
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 09:59 AM

McIntyre, Treadmore, Davitt...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 10:49 AM

this match is the mother of all matches at this world cup so far. footbal has moved from don't make mistakes to, concentrate for the entire lenght of play.

Kudos to the Aussies if they win this match.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 11:02 AM

Three kudos to one!!! Three goals in six minutes... WOW!!! What a game.

FT... you stopped yelling yet?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Guest Allen in Oz
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 11:13 AM

That is as good as it gets

Guus must just about be the best coach of any sport in Australia's history

AD 1943

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 11:20 AM

The Japan team had so many chances to finish the game off and were just unable to do it. They should have had a penalty also. But credit to to the Australian team for plugging away.

All they have to do now is beat Brazil...........

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 11:23 AM

Quaracoo queries Brazil`s easy section, looking at England`s opposition he has little to query, pathetic.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 11:30 AM

Bloody well done the Aussies!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 12:36 PM

Well done Oz. That result against Japan was BIG and will likely ensure they make the second round.

Paraguay played very well and prevented England from performing to the textbook. England dealt with it and did what was necessary to win. Peter Crouch should have swapped shirts with the ref. In Mexico he's known as 'The Vampire' and is infamous for spoiling games with yellow cards.

Most enjoyable to see TnT get a well-deserved point, would have LOVED to see the one that hit the bar go in.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 02:12 PM

The Czech Rebublic were far too good for a solid USA team.

I did well for my fantasy team as my two players in this game were the (midfield) scorer of two goals and an assist for the first one.

Arsenal look to have real find in Rosicky.

I see that Roy Keane has today announced his retirement from football.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 03:19 PM

BPL... "Peter Crouch should have swapped shirts with the ref."

Hahahaha. I agree. That ref should be given a red card for the entire cup after his performance.

RoyBoy is gone? Awww. I always loved to watch him play. Shame, but, he knows best. I shall miss him.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 04:23 PM

I just thought I would put a pointer here to Zander Nyrond's song Football, which may strike a chord with someone

CHEERS
Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 05:38 PM

"FT... you stopped yelling yet?"

Fell aslleep.....

But

"There's only One! Timmy Kale!!!!"

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 08:08 PM

Ghana looked fast, skillful and strong but sadly never did look like scoring.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 08:47 PM

Its seems like a redundent cliche but yes if you don't score goals you don't win football games and more to the point if you can't create any decent chances over 90 minutes you won't score. Both of my dark horses are looking good and won their games comprehensively. Czech Republic and Mexico that is. I still think that Brazil will take the cup but I live in hope for an underdog. Pretty routine win for the Italians today. That was an example of taking your chances. The Italians didn't have many but they took the them when they got them. Whereas Ghana laboured away and created nothing. I do think they were done out of a good penalty claim though. The first one not the second.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 04:58 AM

The best game to date Italy v Ghana, well done Italy, a superb display against a Ghanian team who will trouble any team.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 05:14 AM

Peter Crouch should have swapped shirts with the ref

You will be easliy able to spot anyone who has exchanged shirts with Peter Crouch - they will be the one looking as if they are walking around in a nightgown.

I boldly predict that today, the French team will be beaten by or only manage a draw with the Swiss team...........

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 05:24 AM

http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/

The following from the official FIFA site above.

Not a lot of people know this
In Germany, all manner of Mannschaft-related detail seems to be newsworthy at the moment. The Hannoversche Allegemeine Zeitung has launched a poll to elect the player with the best haircut in the team. Bastian Schweinsteiger and his blond Mohican won it by a mile, followed by the shaven head of David Odonkor, and Torsten Frings' long locks.

Despite his haircut - I thought that Essian should have been 'the man of the match' in the Ghana v Italy match.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 06:27 AM

ITALY 2 - 0 GHANA

BALL POSSESSION= 1ST HALF ITALY 50% GHANA 50%
                2ND HALF ITALY 47% GHANA 53%

NONSENSE!NONSENSE!NONSENSE!

Who ever told you that ball possession wins a football game.
This match has given me a nagging headache I would never forget.I cannot even turn on the radio to listen to all those useless post-match analysis. Like the proverbial ostrich I will bury my head in the sand. but before I do that maybe I should shoot coach Doya and Osei kuffour.

God help me.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 07:24 AM

Don't shoot anyone Quarcoo. They did their best in the circumstances and they made mistakes. One bad back pass by Sammy Kuffour should not wipe out the memory of his effort and talent. Believe me, if I had been playing left back for any of the teams in the competition, they would have had no chance. Ghana are still in it and I wish them luck. They have plenty of talent and will and it ain't over yet!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Paul Burke
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 07:28 AM

Ghana should have had at least a couple of goals. It seems that their strikers are coached by Johnny Wilkinson, every shot clean over the bar.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 08:22 AM

All of the large outside screens showing the World Cup have been closed down in England, trouble broke out resulting in many arrests.
The drunken louts showered the screens with bottles and cans and this was in England!, so far so good in Germany with our travelling fans, but how long will it last?.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 09:52 AM

It really is time the message got through. It is not fans, who cause the hideous atrocities which shame us. It is thugs who wear colours. Thugs have their own "sport" - fighting. Football fans like football, singing and making friends. Please don't confuse those drunken thugs with football fans. So far it has been a great party. Let it roll on!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 09:58 AM

if Togo wins this game it will be the case of the stone that the builder rejects, shall turn out to be the cornerstone of the building.


Osei Kuffour is lucky that Ghana is not like Colombia or Saddam's Iraq we would have given him some lashes after the tournament whether we progress to the next stage or not.

I wish Togo all the best.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 10:58 AM

Togo played well and they did manage to score one fine goal.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 11:06 AM

Following mass brawls in Liverpool and Canary Wharf during big screenings of England's match against Paraguay last Saturday, the BBC has cancelled its big screenings of the World Cup:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/5073434.stm

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 01:51 PM

Yes seen above. The English football fans got the World Cup off to their usual start on their home turf. Will not be long until they kick off in the streets of Germany. Colditz will be opened to house them shortly !

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 02:42 PM

I can't imagine the French will be happy with a draw against the Swiss, but it was predicted by many. A shadow of the 98 team.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 02:56 PM

France - Switzerland 0 : 0

A new record is in sight for France. Four successive games without scoring a single goal so far. France has now left behind all those teams that did never score at the only final round they have reached like Canada, China, Greece and Zaire.

Allons les Bleus, just one more game without scoring and you have equaled Bolivia's all time record of five successive world cup final round games without scoring.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Noreen
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 03:07 PM

...About 50,000 people gathered at nine of the screens around the UK to watch England play Paraguay on Saturday...

If you actually read the story, you will see that only two of the big screen showings are being discontinued due to the louts, the other seven screens will carry on for the enjoyment of the many.

"This decision will clearly be a disappointment to many people but the activities of a tiny minority has jeopardised the enjoyment of many."

As ever :0(

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 03:41 PM

Seen the English fans on the ITN News tonight pushing blow up Spitefires in the faces of the German people last Saturday and doing the goose step through the streets ! Yes the beer-bellied English fans have well and truely arrived !

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 04:06 PM

that was a sad, tentative performance by the US yesterday. They just didn't seem to have any plan. Maybe that early goal shocked them. On paper, they are a better team than that, but playing in Europe seems to make them nervous. I hope they at least SCORE before this is over.

(and the 2nd goal by the Czechs was a beauty! That would unnerve anyone!)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 04:59 PM

Brazil open their account with full points, but they didn't really blow away the Croatia team. Still, I think they played in third gear and have lots more to come. Ronaldo may as well have stayed home.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 05:43 PM

The only boring match I've seen was the French - Switzerland kick-about.    Nil-nil games can actually be exciting, as for example Trinidad & Tobago holding out against Sweden. But this one wasn't.
........................

One thing I'm finding increasingly annoying is commentators who see their role as to gossip meaninglessly throughout the game, without any attempt to say anything useful, or any apprecation that when you have nothing to say, the thing to do is say nothing.

Radio is a bit better, and when there's a simultaneous radio broadcast you can turn down the volume on the TV and turn up the radio. By the nature of the medium radio commentators have to refer at times to what is actually going on, rather than endlessly launch into meaningless statistics about long gone matches, or speculation about players future transfer moves. But even there the TV style of commentating is having its influence.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 05:53 PM

WE HAVE LANDED !
England fans in Nuremberg for the team's World Cup clash can expect a tougher approach, the head of British police at the World Cup has said.

The residential nature of the city centre will see police use preventative powers to stop trouble, Assistant Chief Constable Steve Thomas said.

A number of English supporters were arrested in Frankfurt, where England played their first match on Saturday.

But ACC Thomas warned there could be more arrests in Nuremberg.

He said: "The England supporters must understand that we are guests in Nuremberg, and that our behaviour has to be as the guests.

"Unless they behave very well, we may see slightly more arrests here than we did in Frankfurt, because the police are more likely to use their preventative powers here because of the beauty of the town."

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 06:24 PM

Brazil seem to able to beat a good team from Croatia without appearing to try very hard. In fact I am not sure if Ronaldo was even trying at all.

Even so - Brazil do not look unbeatable for any half decent side that really needs to win and is prepared to make the maximum effort and have a real go at them. Brazil are not going to make it easy but I think they can be beaten.

It is quite a prospect to look forward to.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 07:33 PM

Who ARE these stupid English 'supporters' that we have heard about for so many years now, drinking, fighting and damaging things? I thought they had denied travel to enough known hooligans to limit the problems. This nastiness casts a pall over every series of games on European soil.
   This not sports...it is viciousness for it's own sake. I feel sad for those in England who are trying to just follow the sport and support the team efforts.

Does this go on within England during rivalries?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 07:48 PM

I'd have thought "half decent side that really needs to win and is prepared to make the maximum effort and have a real go at them" would have been a reasonable description for Croatia.

The bottom line is, this World Cup is going to be won either by Brazil, or whoever can beat Brazil.

The traditional way of beating them would be by opponents coming in hard and kicking them to bits. Fortunately it looks as if the referees are determined to knock that kind of play on the head, so their chances of winning are pretty good. However Croatia didn't play that way, and still came surprisingly close to winning tonight, so it can be done.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Noreen
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 09:46 PM

Bill- it would, if steps weren't taken to avoid confrontations.

In all games when there is a large contingent of visiting fans, or trouble is foreseen, the police will keep opposing fans separate, shepherding them from arrival in the town (at train station or motorway exit) to their separate area of the stadium, and vice versa after the match.

As ever, though, it is a tiny minority causing the problem for everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 03:02 AM

I'd have thought "half decent side that really needs to win and is prepared to make the maximum effort and have a real go at them" would have been a reasonable description for Croatia.

Not really - as at this stage Croatia are indeed a half decent side but one that only needed a draw with Brazil and can still progress by results against Australia and Japan.

I think that had Croatia really needed to win that game - they possibly would have been good enough to do so.

Any predictions for what sort of Spainish team is going to turn up this time?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 04:42 AM

McGrath of Harlow- you were talking about radio commentary being better than t.v commentary ha! in Ghana if you listen to radio commentary you will definitely end up the in the hospital with a heart attack,during the Ghana-Italy one woman died because of that. radio commentary is dangerous and this incident is not even the only one or first, there has been countless. the commentators comment like school kids seeing a live-snake for the first time.

I think the french team is just a collection of stars. Its best name will be French national stars.

That was a good game by croatia,too bad they couldn't score. this world cup will be won by long-range shots and set-pieces rather than working the ball through the defence into the net.so it means that if your team can't shoot then you are out.

I hate voilence in football but somehow I am intrigued by the English fans courage to travel to any part of the world and give the police headaches.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 06:42 AM

If you view in the UK via the interactive option - you can watch but now choose to listen to the BBC Radio 2 commentary rather than have to listen to John Motson 'whittering' on.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 11:27 AM

Any predictions for what sort of Spainish team is going to turn up this time?

On this showing - a very formidable one.

However, the (so-called) penalty award, the red card and the timing of it - did spoil what was up to then a really good game. Ukraine with all 11 players were having enough problems trying to deal with a moble Spanish side and with only 10 - they had no chance.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 11:56 AM

Perhaps people are looking at football hooliganism the wrong way round.

One way of looking at it is to see it as an attempt by fans to get back to the original form of football, out of which the present codes were invented back in the 19th century. The sort where rival villages or parishes would battle each other on the streets with a ball providing a kind of structure for the proceedings - described as "�a devilish pastime � more a bloody murdering practice than a sport�.

The current adverts for Carling Black Label imagine a modern version of this traditional game. Maybe it is due for a revival in real life.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 05:08 PM

Perhaps so....but if the fans were out in the streets with a ball, PLAYING each other, I'd at least comprehend it. Does testosterone really require hate and violence against arbitrary opposing groups, when a game is involved? *sigh*...I guess maybe I should follow badminton.

(I see they have also had to chase & arrest some Polish hooligans....I do realize it is not limited to the English...they are just the most famous.)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 05:15 PM

I have just watched Germany outclass Poland and I am going to have to wonder out aloud whether WLD might have it right. They stopped Poland from having a real shot and in the last half hour they looked brilliant. They passed at speed, varied the length and tempo of their passing, supported the man on the ball all the time (England take note) and brought on three superb substitutes. When I saw them before the tournament, I would have backed Plymouth Argyle against them. They suddenly look a very different proposition. On the form of last weekend, they will sweep England aside in ten days time - if England even make it that far. They have good players rather than great ones, but this could become a mighty team. In front of their own fans, they will take some stopping.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 05:26 PM

We have seen all the teams play now and on their showing so far - Spain (and possibly Argentina) looked to be the only team that could beat Brazil.

The German team have now played twice and made heavy weather of both games. So perhaps comparisons with England's one performance should wait until after tomorrow's match against T&T?

Poland tonight were only really interested in trying not to lose and did not place the German defence under anywhere near the sort of pressure that even Cosa Rica managed in the first game.

Even so - the Poles came close to scoring and the German team only managed to score their single goal in the 91st minute and against 10 men.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 05:26 PM

Poland was saved from complete destruction by their goalkeeper, who made some amazing saves....but those German substitutes were so very good!

That red card was a foolish penalty for Poland...they barely touched the ball after that.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 05:52 PM

The match seemed to consist of incredible escapes by Poland, sometimes because of brilliant defending, remarkable goalkeeping or sheer luck. And then they'd instantly give the ball back to the Germans to launch another attack. Even from throw ins.

I think Germany is likely to have quite a lot of trouble from Ecuador.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 05:29 AM

I can see much improvement by the German side and that is typical of them.the Gerrmans are so good at not making the same mistake twice.

the substitutes were just brillant.but I was wondering if the Odonkor guy is a Ghanaian? the guy changed eveything for the Germans. the Polish defence failed to recognize the fact that his runs on the flanks was going to give them problems.

all the same big-up to Jurgen Klinsman.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Noreen
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 05:58 AM

Odonkor .... The son of a Ghanaian father and a German mother

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 07:41 AM

Yes, he did look pretty quick and he is very popular in Dortmund, where he plays his club football.
It is still very hot in Germany. So unless a thunderstorm comes to England's assistance, we could be heading for one of the most humiliating shocks of England's World Cup history tonight. In normal times, England should win comfortably. They should really win tonight, but they have no fully fit international class striker. They don't like the heat either, do they? They know they must win tonight, because they are not going to win in Köln on Tuesday. Let's hope they don't cock it up. If they play again like they did on Saturday, I think they will be on the plane next Wednesday morning.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Arnie
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 04:23 PM

Well, England didn't lose did they? Despite all the gloom and doom merchants, England are currently leading group B with 6 points in the bag. And if Sweden v Paraguay ends in a goalless draw then England will be group leaders whatever the result against Sweden next week. Crouch may look like a daddy-long-legs but he seems to have this knack of finding the back of the net (eventually!). Owen is definitely not match sharp and I'd use him off the bench next match with Rooney of course starting. Come on England!!! Bet a few of the new Trinidad & Tobago fans north of Hadrian's Wall are as sick as parrots tonight!!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 05:40 PM

I wonder whether England would have scored at all without the foul play enabling the first goal. There are forty cameras in the stadium and one can see it in the super slomo. If you have asked yourself why the T&T player didn't jump to head the ball away before Crouch, the poor guy couldn't because Crouch pulled him down by his hair. The referee couldn't see it from his angle.

But perhaps it was the hand of God and not Crouch's one can see pulling the hair.

Wolfgang,.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 06:40 PM

That's right Wolfgang. Crouch should have been sent off for the foul. No complaints about Steve Gerrards's goal though, were there?
To get on in the tournament, you need luck as well as skill. In the past, the luck has gone with the Germans. Maybe England will get to earn their luck in future games. The fact remains that although they have only scored two goals in three hours of football, they are still on target to come second in their group. In fact, with a draw, they could even come top.
I think the game against Sweden will be a stinker. England will probably rest players for the second round and give some other players a game. Let's hope we are up for it when the Germany game comes!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 03:12 AM

It is just before the England v Brazil match.

Ronaldinho goes into the Brazilian changing room to find all his teammates looking a bit glum.

"What's up?" he asks.

"Well, we're having trouble getting motivated for this game. We know it's important but it's only England. They're rubbish and we can't be bothered".

Ronaldinho looks at them and says "Well, I reckon I can beat them by myself, you lads go down the pub."

So Ronaldinho goes out to play England by himself and the rest of the Brazilian team go off for a few jars.

After a few pints they wonder how the game is going, so they get the landlord to put the teletext on. A big cheer goes up as the screen reads "Brazil 1 - England 0 (Ronaldinho 10minutes)". He is beating England all by himself!

Anyway, a few pints later and the game is forgotten until someone remembers "It must be full time now, let's see how he got on". They put the teletext on.

"Result from the Stadium "Brazil 1 (Ronaldinho 10 minutes) - England 1 (Lampard 89 minutes)".

They can't believe it; he has single handedly got a draw against England!!

They rush back to the Stadium to congratulate Ronaldinho. They find him in the dressing room, still in his gear, sitting with his head in his hands.

He refuses to look at them. "I've let you down, I've let you down."

"Don't be daft! You got a draw against England, all by yourself. And they only scored at the very, very end!"

"No, No, I have! I've let you down...........I got sent off after 12 minutes"

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 06:12 AM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 08:18 AM

England v Sweden could be a very important game for both countries, if Germany beat Ecuador and top their section, I would think that neither country would fancy meeting the host nation in the nect round. On the other hand if Ecuador go top then we might see both England and Sweden in a dilemma,the booby prize to the winners!, could be interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 09:33 AM

We can't influence it but we still can wish: Trinidad and Tobago?

OK, I understand, not granted. The remaining two are both tough. I'd say our chances are minimally better against England than against Sweden.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 10:04 AM

thanks Noreen for the info.

Serbia back up!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 10:34 AM

I think Ecuador are good for a game against anyone. They have beaten both Brazil and Argentina. England have indeed been atrocious up to now. However, you do not need to get worried if you play badly and win. It is when you are playing well but losing that you really have got problems.
It will be interesting to see what Eriksson does. I think he may well gamble, especially as he does not have to win on Tuesday. He has two main problems. Firstly, his side is not playing with any cohesion. They are not supporting the man on the ball properly so they are not passing the ball quickly enough to unlock determined defences. The other problem is that both of his quality strikers are recovering from injury. This means he will either have to gamble on Theo Walcott - and give him a run on Tuesday, or else drop either Owen or Crouch. In any event, it looks likely there will be surprises in the team selection. Either Germany or Ecuador will be formidable opponents, so players may be rested in advance.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:39 AM

The latest Argentina performance looked formidable.

The second (of their 6) goals was 24 passes and just about as good as football gets. Wonderful stuff.

The fact that goal scorers Tevez and Messi were only thought good enough to come on as substitutes - is a bit worrying to all the other sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 02:28 PM

Ivory Coast is definitely the best team of all those who are eliminated in the first round. In most other groups they would have reached easily the next round.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 02:38 PM

However, you do not need to get worried if you play badly and win.

This has certainly never appeared to worry the German team.

Their motto in full is - you do not need to get worried if you play badly and win - on penalties.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 02:44 PM

Wow... them lads can play. Even in their loss, they were exciting to watch in the second half. I think they could have gone much further with some better coaching and strategic planning.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Escamillo
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 06:08 PM

In fact, coach Pekerman sent Tevez and Messi only in the last minutes because the match was already won, and the idea of a Tevez or Messi hurt in the field panicks him. Rather than being substitutes, they are considered his treasure chest.

Andrés in Buenos Aires, today is June 16 6-0 !

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 08:30 PM

I'd reckon England's chances against Germany as better than their chances against Ecuador.

I'm looking forward to seeing Brazil and the Argentine meet. The rest of the games are basically warm-ups. Entertaining enough, but...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 02:49 AM

We may quibble but if you asked the Ecuador or German teams who they would like to play next, out of England or Sweden - I think they would feel their chances from a meeting with Sweden were a lot better than those from a meeting with this England team and if they could, would prefer to avoid England at this stage.

And if you can't get a good manager - the next best thing is to get a lucky one. The situation is that England have already qualified, have won their first two games and have 6 points from those matches. I can think of a few other managers who would settle for that at this stage..........Even if this is more by luck than judgement.

On reflection - it was not all bad. It just looked and felt like it for 90% of the time. Watching world-class players like Gerrard playing like he has never seen a football before and does not know what to do with it other than put it high into the crowd-or give it to the other team - is frustrating to say the least........Then he finally shows us all that he has remembered and all is forgiven.

But earlier the Swedes had the same trouble with the same team, who did not even try to win. And unlike the Swedes, England did (eventually) manage to score two good goals against them. And with John Terry's fantastic defending - we managed also to stop them from scoring (just).

At least when England play Ecuador or Germany - they will have to try and place some of their team in front of the ball. I can still see us winning the whole thing with lucky old Sven.

Sven's substitutions (to a starting line-up that most of us armchair managers would have chosen) did work. Rooney was able to play and will be all the better for the run out and the hype and expectation of his entry will now subside a little. Young Arron Lennon looked just the ticket for occasions when we have to chase to get a goal. And no one else got injured or suspended. All of that will no doubt now happen in the Sweden game........................

The Ivory Coast did look good but they have now lost both of their matches (against two good teams admittedly). Angola (with 10 men) managed a draw with (FIFA's 4th best team in the world ranking) Mexico. And I am looking forward to watching Ghana play their second game today.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 02:51 AM

In fact, coach Pekerman sent Tevez and Messi only in the last minutes because the match was already won, and the idea of a Tevez or Messi hurt in the field panicks him. Rather than being substitutes, they are considered his treasure chest.

Andres I am desparately hoping that Argentina have hit peak form too soon - do you think they may have?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Folkiedave
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 02:59 AM

I am watching the games in Spain and certainly the Spanish are feeling very confident at the moment.

As far as England is concerned - we struggled for 80 minutes against a team of championship and lower league players one of whom couldn´t even get into the first team at Falkirk. We then scored a goal which would have been disallowed if the referee had seen the hair pulling. Granted Gerrard´s goal was a good one, but would he have done that if we had still have been at 0-0?

We have some great players all of whom seem intent in proving they can accurately kick a ball sixty yards. Cut out the Hollywood passes England.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 03:22 AM

Exactly!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 11:15 AM

Come On Aussie, Come On...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 11:46 AM

It is interesting how few surprising results have come up so far. As it looks now, in the next round there'll be only West European and Latin-American teams playing plus perhaps one single outsider.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 11:59 AM

Shambles, I wonder which German team you are talking about when you speak about playing bad and winning. It looks to me as if you'd regurgitate past experiences seasoned with a good dose of prejudice.

This year's team I can rather see playing well and loosing disastrously to a team profiting from their bad and unexpwerienced defense play. In my opinion, the present German team is much more entertaining than the last four or five; worse perhaps from the success angle but they play quicker and with more risk than the years before.

Some of the old teams were not received well even when coming home with a second place, for their play was awful (last time in Mexico, for instance). This team can loose in the next round and will be cheered nonetheless. The fans have a good feeling for that.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 12:53 PM

Czech, 1,2,3... Czech 1,2,3... is this thing on? Wow! Ghana is playing some good football, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 01:00 PM

It is interesting how few surprising results have come up so far.

It is not over until the - etc etc. It may turn out to be tempting fate to state the half-time score where Ghana are currently one goal up against one of the fancied European teams and well deserve to be. If that is the result - it will open up a group that looked set to be a two horse race between Italy and the Czech Republic.

I will stick my neck out and predict that Ghana will win - if they manage to keep all 11 players on the pitch. Michael Essian is everywhere and playing like 3 men.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 01:03 PM

Actually Wolfgang, looking at how much this side has improved since the tournament started, I think you can have some optimism about the Germans. They are showing terrific spirit and cohesion at the moment. I also thought their defence looked a lot more competent on Wednesday. Poland never really got a sniff at goal. Sometimes teams emerge in the course of a tournament. I don't think Germany has any world class players at the moment. That needn't stop them becoming a world class team though. With the crowd behind them and a bit of confidence, they could well be in it.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 01:12 PM

the Germans have won two games now. not in a sort of nail bitingly awful English way, but evrybody is still saying, well they aren't that good......

after they win the next one, things will change subtly to - oh shit we've got to play them....!

round about that time, 'the unstoppable victory machine that is Germany' starts to infiltrate into pub conversations....much as 'Danny Blanchflower, the architect of the modern game' cliche afflicted an earlier generation.

trust me, I know about these things.....I watch a lot of television.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 02:01 PM

Well Ghana did managed to keep all of their players on the pitch. And they did go one to a well deserved 2-0 victory. It was the other team who went down to 10 men and the score could have been even more convincing but for some fine goalkeeping.

Well done Ghana.   

trust me, I know about these things.....I watch a lot of television.

No you are just prejudiced and have an active imagination. *Smiles*.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 02:10 PM

Well done Ghana. A great day for you Quarcoo!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Folkiedave
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 02:37 PM

And let´s hear it for the referees.

I know some of them have got things wrong (Crouch´s hairpull anyone?)and I know there have been one or two bad decisions.

But there has been hardly any groups of players stood abusing the refs like we get in the English game. There has been acceptance of the ref´s decsions and little foul-mouthed abuse. And there seems to be little diving now.

Which goes to show IMHO - the players don´t need to do it and can refrain from doing it when they wish.

And well done Ghana.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 02:57 PM

Dave, ya folkie... could not disagree with you more. If I was Crouch, I'd pull my own hair out. After suffering as many poor calls as he did, he must be frustrated beyond belief!

Nobody protesting decisions? Have you ever seen so many yellow cards for just that? And, today, a red card for just that.

Anyway, give it up for Ghana... what a game. These lads can do it all. So sharp they are.

PS... I can't wait for Oz to crush the Brazilians tomorrow. At least a three goal deficit.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 03:29 PM

That was the first real surprise now, but in a group with only the USA, Ghana, and the Czechs there is a big chance that the two teams going on will not be both from Latin-America and Westeurope. Czechs and Poles are Easteuropean from a German POV.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 04:00 PM

If they can keep it up, USA will never have a better chance of beating Italy.

At 1-1 at half time - they are playing well and really have the Italians rattled. It was a shame that they had a player sent off when they had the one man advantage. A yellow card would have been sufficient. De Rossi's offence on the other hand would get him a jail sentence if he did it off the field. That was just a frustrated reaction after conceeding the US goal

Really exciting stuff. I wonder how many players will be left on at the end?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 04:43 PM

amazing...US still holding on against Italy...10 more minutes for a draw and then who knows?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 04:54 PM

Not the best game but the most exciting for me so far (USA-Italy). I sat there hoping for the USA but in the end they were glad about the draw. Some offside decisions were questionable but the bookings were o.k. Now the USA only have to beat Ghana clearly...

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 05:52 PM

The USA Italy match may not have been great football, but it had all the makings of a great movie. I was half expecting to see Sylvester Stallone come on as a sub.

I think the USA will have their work cut out beating Ghana.

..............
My son commutes to London on the Stansted Express, which serves the airport, and picks up commuters in Harlow on the way to London. Italians and Germans excitedly talking about football. And a bewildered American family phoning home to say they'd arrived safely - "And there's this thing they call the World Cup. It seems like it's a very big thing over here."

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Folkiedave
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 05:54 PM

Nobody protesting decisions? Have you ever seen so many yellow cards for just that? And, today, a red card for just that.

Tonight there was a really well justified red card (Daniele De Rossi) and what the hell he was doing complaining I will never know. Should not be allowed to play in this World Cup again. Could easily have had McBride´s eye out.

The USA red for Maestroni was also justified I thought - a totally reckless challenge. The red card for Pope was a bit harsh but he had been booked already and both USA centre-backs were stupidly fouling when there was no need. (IMHO) I liked the lad Contran that came on as a sub.

And the Italians around the ref was a rare occurence. You´ll get half a dozen of those each Premiership game.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 06:17 PM

Today was a bit of a silly one for red cards and the fine USA v Italy first half especially was ruined by this in the second half.

Looking forward to USA v Ghana - always assuming they can put out teams of 11 players who have not been suspended.

Australia to beat Brazil tomorrow?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 03:11 AM

I have no problem with yellow cards for dissent. Make the players shut up so the ref can get on with his job. In rugby, you concede ten yards if you don't respond to the ref's decision quickly enough. Carry that over to football and you would see a few more penalties. You can foul accidentally, but you can always keep your trap shut.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 03:57 AM

I agree with you totally Alanabit.

Problem is that it is already an offence to show dissent. Obvious ones often get punished with a yellow, slamming the ball down being a good example of the sort of thing I mean. Mouthing at the referee, even when clearly viewable by non-lipreading viewers doesn´t seem to be punished as often! Perhaps it should be!

And the FA is keen that the laws apply equally whereever possible. I challenge anyone to refereee the Sunday morning pub games that I sometimes watch under those circumstances of a "ten yard rule" !!

Some laws are not taken any notice of. A prime example is "entering or leaving the field of play without the referees permission". (Law 12 Cautionable Offences) But no-one éver seems to get booked for staying off the field of play to avoid being offside for example!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 05:56 AM

Liam Brady the former Arsenal and Juventus player informed RTE viewers that the US team were dedicating their game to the boys in Iraq, why the hell don`t the leaves this clap-trap to Bush and co and leave the world to get on with the football.
The way they played against Italy would have qualified them for a stint in Iraq, some of their tackling was reckless, they deserved the two red cards and De Rossi should be banned from Italys remaining games.
I think Ghana will end the US teams interest, they look a very formidable side.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 07:40 AM

Now the dust has settled - a 9 man USA team obtaining a 1 -1 draw with a top European side like Italy is a pretty astonishing result.

Especially as with some more sensible refereeing - the USA could have won and perhaps should have won.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: JennyO
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 11:57 AM

Australia and Brazil just about to kick off.

C'mon Aussie c'mon!!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 12:51 PM

If there were points awarded for a first half performance - these would go to the Australian team. I am not sure if Brazil are really in gear yet or are just playing as well as the Australian team are allowing them to.

Anyone wish to predict the final score?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 01:00 PM

Well, the final score for Oz will be nil if they keep waiting for a perfect shot. They seem hesitant to just "go for it". As we say in Canuck hockey, "Put the puck on the net!!!"

Having said that, their ball handling was impressive.

I hope they will be told to let fly in the second half.

C'mon Aussie, c'mon!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 03:04 PM

If anyone's still waiting...

No, I won't give the score in case someone's taped it to watch later, but it can be found Here

CHEERS
Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 05:48 PM

The French team just don't seem to want to put the work in. They scored an ealy goal, totally dominated the game but couldn't or didn't see the need to finish the game off. The South Korean team just kept on plugging away to the point of exhustion until they finally equalised. Then France started to play but it was then too late.....

With their 2 points fron two drawn games and even as poorly as they have played and without Zidane - they should get 3 points from their final group game with Togo (if the Togo players agree to play). But will 5 points be enough for them?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 08:26 PM

Czechs and Poles are Easteuropean from a German POV.

But of course Germany is East European from an England POV.   

Once again, it's going to be Brazil or whoever beats Brazil. Or Argentina or whoever beats Argentina. And that is just two ways of saying the same thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 08:39 PM

I was trying to work out German POV. Thought maybe it was like a dacha in Russia, a kibbutz in Israel , a sheesh kebab in Derby on a Saturday night......

point of view...aha!

germany's not east european.
they're like us, north european. we sunburn easily.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 03:24 AM

I am pleased to see that (so far at least) the current German coach has not taught and encouraged his team to indulge in the feature of the game that he was so famous for and perfected. I mean of course the 'Klinsman Roll'.

This is where for the very slightest of contact from an opponent - you thrust your arms in the air, shout as if you have been shot, throw yourself to the ground and then proceed to roll over and over at least 20 times or until you have rolled into your opponent's penalty area or lay writhing in pain at the referee's feet (preferably both).

I do jest. Mr Klinsman - during his time as a Spurs player did show himself to be a fine player.

Looking forward to seeing Spain play their second game today. Tunisia - judging them on their performance in their first game - should not present too much of a problem.

And of course there is a game and a result - of Switzerland v Togo - that French supporters will be anxious about. Especially if Switzerland not only win, as expected but also manage to score a hatful of goals. For who qualifies from this group may yet depend on which of France or Switzerland manage to score the most goals against poor old Togo. The main point being that France's fate is not now in their hands and will have to depend on the results of other matches.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 05:02 AM

It would appear that the TV directors have all been instructed to ensure that almost every goal-kick must be preceeded by the biggest possible close-up shot of the match ball................

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Hrothgar
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 06:11 AM

Well, now we have to knock over Croatia. Officially, a 0-0 draw will get us through, but if we can't beat Croatia, there is not a lot of future forus.

Doing better at rugby, aren't we?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 06:53 AM

we sunburn easily

Some of us do. Quite a lot of us are already pretty dark brown, including many of the best players.

.................
"Diving" can mean either of two things - one is when a player has not been fouled, but pretends they have been and falls to the ground dramatically. This is cheating and should be penalised.

The other is when a player has been fouled by a push or a trip or some similar infraction, but could possibly stay up and try to recover, but opts instead to fall, in the process drawing attemntion to a foul that might otherwise have gone unnoticed and unpunished. This is not cheating and should not be penalised.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 06:53 AM

Well, you're only playing England...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 09:24 AM

In the France-S. Korea game the referee made the worst possible blunder: not seeing a goal when one was scored. I wonder if he has apologised later to the French. But they should have won easily despite that mistake. The French team looks old and tired and Zidane is not even half as good as he was. A pity.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,David G.
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 10:44 AM

Just heard that a Ghana player pulled out an israeli flag after scoring the other night. Anyone know why ?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 11:12 AM

With Switzerland beating Togo 2 - 0 - I work out that whatever the other result in the group - all France have to do to qualify is to beat Togo by two (or more) clear goals. With Togo now out and only playing for pride - it should not be too difficult for the French team to this - but most of us would have thought they would have easily beaten S. Korea............

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 12:17 PM

...a Ghana player pulled out an Israeli flag after scoring

It appears he plays for a Tel Aviv club, so presumably he thought it'd go down well back there.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Folkiedave
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 01:12 PM

Talking of diiving, great one by Thierry Henry last night, shame such a good player has to resort to that sort of thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 03:21 PM

Rooney to start because of the three yellows? Goodness gracious... it's still only 52 days. I thought a normal recovery period was more like 90 days.

Then again... perhaps I don't know me arse from me elbow... again.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 06:57 PM

"Three yellows on me shirt"...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 08:59 PM

Bra-zil! Bra-zil!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Escamillo
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 01:01 AM

"Andres I am desparately hoping that Argentina have hit peak form too soon - do you think they may have? "

I think that the Serbs were morally defeated too soon. Argentina´s potential seems to be very high especially because of the excellent relationship among manager and players, and an unusual quality of players. Being too confident could be dangerous, so I like the decision of the manager Pekerman, who will reserve Messi and take out Saviola and Crespo for the next encounter with the arch-enemy the Netherlands. There will always be time to send the Panzer division to the front. A guess? Argentina wins 2-1

Un abrazo - Andrés in Buenos Aires

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 02:41 AM

This looks like being one of the great Argentina sides. Last time they had the individual talent, but they did not really perform. The game against the Netherlands is one I have looked forward to for months. They are not a mature side yet, but when they fire properly, they also have some dazzling talent. I am hoping this one will be a classic.
It has been a better World Cup all round so far. Spain and Argentina are performing and even the Germans are entertaining to watch. Can't complain about that, can we?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Folkiedave
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 02:47 AM

I watched the game last night in Spain and the Tunisian goal was seen as a national disater! And the sigh of relief when the first of Torres´s goals went in was audible in N. Africa (about 80 miles away).

Surely they cannot play as badly as that again? (Or as well as that and not score?)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 03:26 AM

Bugger - from now until Friday we will only be able to watch two live games a day. I was getting to like the routine of being able to watch three fine internationals in a day. For there have been very few really tedious matches - so far.

If Sweden lose and T&T win - they can still qualify and will have deserved to. However, I do not see any other result for Sweden v England that the draw that is all Sweden need and what England will no doubt willingly settle for. If ever a game had tedious boring draw written all over it from the start - it is this one.

I hope I am wrong and perhaps this will depend on the Germany v Ecuador result, who tops that group and which side of the draw you will be placed. But in all truth (and apart perhaps from home advantage) it does not really matter which team you have to face in the next round - as from now on - you still have to beat whoever it may be. And if England have to beat Germany in order to win the whole thing - it may as well be now.........

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 04:04 AM

anybody fixing to watch the England game tonight?

Just a reminder that its on....

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 04:37 AM

joy like a river
joy like a river
in my soul
joy like a river
joy like a river
in my soul

wow! boy oh boy! fabulous! fantastic! what a game!
goooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal!

hey don't blame me for a joy hung-over, blame the Czechs.we certainly checked the Czechs.

shame on FIFA world rankings.I don't care if we loose our next match.from Cape Three Points to Paga there will be no limit to the joy in our hearts.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 05:11 AM

shame on those Arabs for attacking John Paintsil for pulling out hte Israeli flag after the match. we don't even have an official Israeli officer in this country we fully back the Palestinians against the Israelis so what's their problem. That flag was given to the player by his supporters in Israel who said it would bring him good luck,period!

And those idiotic Libyans had the nerve to attack Ghanaians just because of that action by a footballer. Little wonder Bush does what he does.

That player plays in Israel where Africans are better treated than they are treated in North Africa and the other Arab countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 07:29 AM

Once again, it's going to be Brazil or whoever beats Brazil. (McGrath)

Just checking the wisdom of this prediction with the sample of the 14 World Cups between 1950 and 2002:

Six times, Brazil was in the finals, so the sentence is trivially true, just as a similar sentence about Germany would be trivially true in more than 50% of all cases (Germany was in 7 finals in the 13 championships from 1954 on).

How often was it true in the remaining 8 cases? Three out of eight times the winner had beaten Brazil at one time during the competition, the other 5 times the winner had either not beaten Brazil or not played Brazil at all. All in all, there are many more cases in which a team has beaten Brazil and did not win the tournament (for instance, in 1966 two teams have beaten Brazil during the tournament and both did not reach the final) than cases in which a team has beaten Brazil and became champion.

But if one adds the 6 trivial cases in which Brazil has reached the final, the prediction that the winner either is Brazil or a team that has beaten Brazil is correct 9 out of 14 times.

But scanning through the tables of all those post war championships there can be found a 100% true prediction which should make England fear the worst in case they meet Germany soon and win: All 12 teams that have beaten Germany at any time before the final have not become world champion later. Most of them even lost the game immediately after beating Germany.

So I predict that whoever beats Germany before the final will not be champion.

Wolfgang (who is not taking serious any of such prediction games)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Les from Hull
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 02:28 PM

No problem, Wolfgang, on current form England could never beat Germany!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 02:39 PM

England may not be able to beat Sweden tonight - but will beat Germany (should they meet them) as long as it is not decided by penalties.

The last time England did manage to beat Sweden was when Sir Alf was in charge........

Come on Trinidad and Tobago.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 02:58 PM

Go Eng-u-lund! I'm told that is the cry.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 03:58 PM

England fans are currently crying at the knee injury to Michael Owen who had to go off in the first few minutes. Let us hope it is not as serious as it looks.

Joe Cole has scored a from a wonderful volly to ensure that England have equalised first..........

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Firecat
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 04:57 PM

Final score 2-2 in the Sweden v England match. Owen has twisted his knee...

The Swedes are cheaters!! They kept on trying to hurt our people. Did anyone else notice that all the injured players were English?!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 07:11 PM

If ever a game had tedious boring draw written all over it from the start - it is this one.   Not exactly how it turned out - draws can be as exciting as any match.
.............
Brazil was in the finals, so the sentence is trivially true

Not at all - one of the implications of the sentence is that Brazil will probably be in the finals; the other is that any team good enough to beat Brazil is going to be good enough to beat anyone else.

Actually I wasn't intending that as a general statement about all World Cuops, but as a specific prediction about this World Cup.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 03:28 AM

Michael Owen's World Cup seems to be over. We don't know yet exactly what injury had him stretchered off in the first minute, but it looked like ligaments to me. That means at least six months out. Boy do I hope I am wrong, but I don't think so.
The other worrying aspect was England's lack of leadership and fitness collapse in the second half. Steve Gerrard's arrival was able to do something about the former, but nothing about the latter. He scored an excellent goal, which England did not deserve. Then England gifted Sweden an equaliser, which Sweden certainly had done more than enough to earn.
Peter Crouch was well out of his depth and Rooney was knackered by the time he was pulled off. Rooney had done a very good job, but his legs had gone. Joe Cole had one of his best ever England games, having scored a brilliant opener and then crossing for Gerrard's goal. The England passing and movement fell apart after half time though. God help them if they do that against one of the stronger teams.
They have five days to get prepared and organised for Ecuador. At this stage, I don't think they should look any further. Still, they have avoided Germany, so the football gods are still smiling on them. Germany looked good yesterday afternoon, but Ecuador rested five players. England have it all to do now and with Owen out and Rooney not yet fit, nobody will expect them to progress beyond the quarter finals. Even Sunday afternoon is likely to be a close thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 04:19 AM

Bet you're glad I reminded you to watch, Al.

Ask Sven if he's more frightened for, or frightened of Germany now.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 04:26 AM

Alan I thought you might have commented on Joe Coles faking injury after two innocuous tackles, this resulted in two yellow cards for the Swedish players, then this is par for the course for Joe, as for Firecat, do we laugh or cry.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 06:20 AM

I totally agree with you Alanabit on your assessment of the English team. I watched the game last night and was disappointed with loss of concentration after some minutes and then bouncing back again into the game.

This shows that with the great players there is what we call FOCUS, which i think the English team is lacking and if they should do that in their next match it could cause a whole lot of problems for them.

I really didnot see the role played by Owen in the game, I prefer Peter Crouch to him.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 07:03 AM

I think it was entirely understandable that losing Owen so early knocked their duck off.

presumably the match plan was built around Owen.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 09:54 AM

I didn't see Joe Cole faking injury. I saw him thump in a magnificent goal and then provide an inch perfect cross for Steve Gerrard's goal. I saw him running at defenders and generally playing very well.
Of course I am disappointed with England's performance. However, the Germans are also very relieved not to be playing England on Saturday. I would say that of all the teams left, Germany is the one, which England is best equipped to beat. At times last night England kept the ball on the ground and moved it around quickly. Then in the second half, England suddenly collapsed, as they had against Sweden in the previous World Cup.
It is not unknown for England to suddenly step up a gear when they need it. They did that in 1986, 1990 and again in the last World Cup. My nagging fear is that the return of Peter Crouch will also herald the return of all that "big man in the middle crap". In fact, Michael Owen scores more often with his head. Playing the ball up in the air gives the opposition more time to see what is coming and to regroup their defence quicker.
The loss of Michael Owen is the hardest blow to bear. The Argentines and the Germans are both sick of the sight of him. You can't replace a player like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 10:04 AM

The sort of laid-back displays displayed by England and others are explained by the nature of the competition. When it is a case of win or be eliminatated, any team that is not totally committed for the whole of the time it takes to get through - will be presented with a big problem.

But when star players have waited for over 4 years to play in the final knock-out stages - it is perhaps understandable that they play within themselves in the league table stages. And play with a view to do enough to qualify but not risk being injured. When it is sudden death - it is time for the star players in the fancied teams to show the sort of do or die spirit that has been shown by some of the less fancied teams.

As has been shown by poor Michael Owen's injury - it does not take much to totally ruin all of a fine player's World Cup dreams.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 11:04 AM

I am enjoying watching a few hand-picked games. But I cannot even THINK of soccer without hearing "Christmas in the Trenches" by John McCutcheon about the legendary soccer match between the group of German and British soldiers across the battlefield in WWI. Can't do it. It is always there.

How we got to this period in history without figuring out how to resolve our differences without killing each other remains a mystery to me. Let's melt down the guns and solve our differences on the soccer field, and then afterwards we can all have a pint and argue about the ref calls.

Oh, well. Back to the "normal" discussion of the WC. Sorry for taking it away.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 12:32 PM

Ard Mhacha is a better observer of the game than Alanabit, Joe Cole went down as if he was poleaxed, the look of disgust given by the Swede to Cole was well earned.
England are not playing well they are a very nervous outfit, in the second half panic set in whenever the Swedes attacked.
They are up against Ecuador the weakest team left in the qualifiers and should have little trouble moving into the quarter finals.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 12:55 PM

On the BBC Radio 2 the Scottish announcer (currently in Germany for the duration of the World cup as a freebie on the strength of the only home country' team to qualify for these finals) was saying how untrue it was that the German people had no sense of humour.

As some of them were suggesting to the announcer, that just two words were enough to reduce them all to tears of laughter.

These two words were Bertie Vogts.................

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 01:02 PM

Who was known in Germany as "kleine, dumme Berti"!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 01:41 PM

I'm sure Ard would be every Englishman's choice to referee their footie games.

Didn't see the Cole incident, or rather don't remember it. generally though the swedish game reminded me a bit of the Havelock Ellis's reply to a wartime tribunal 's question as to what he would a german soldier was raping his sister.
- I would interpose my body...

lot of interposing of bodies going on in that match, from both sides - but the Swedes were bigger and they were getting the better of the interposing, no question....

One part of you says - bad luck losing Owen.

the other half must surely be asking if there aren't any fully fit footballers who deserved that team place.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Chris Green
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 02:00 PM

A little off topic, but wasn't it Lytton Strachey who said that?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 03:18 PM

As for the World Cup - Brazil, or whoever beats Brazil. (McGrath, 2002)

it's going to be Brazil or whoever beats Brazil.
...a specific prediction about this World Cup (McGrath, 2006)



Ahh. I see.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: michaelr
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 03:31 PM

If Germany keeps playing like they did yesterday against Ecuador, they have nothing to worry about against England.

cHEERS,
mICHAEL

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 04:57 PM

Ecuador did not have 5 of their first-choice team so England will not find it as easy to stroll to victory as the Germans did. And of course Ecuador did not mind losing too much in this game as they would most likely only face England..................

However, losing to England in this next game means they will go home.


With England - it is about time for a 'Scan Of The Match' award - they would win it every time.

Well done Ivory Coast - a 3 - 2 victory over S&M to finish. If only they had not been grouped with Argentina and Holland.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 08:09 PM

Yup, Wolfgang. A specific prediction about this World Cup. And last time it was a specific prediction about that World Cup, which happened to turn out to be correct.
...........................

To me it looked as if Joe Cole only went down when he had been fouled, and there's nothing wrong with that. The fact that the other bloke gave a "look of disgust" is pretty meaningless. As the saying goes "He would wouldn't he."

Joe Cole played brilliantly anyway. Any time he got the ball the game lit up, which wasn't true of too many players on either side.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 02:56 AM

Few qualification surprises so far.

Is anyone going to be brave enough to predict who is going to qualify and what the results will be from this afternoon's matches in Group F - out of Italy, Czech Rep, Ghana and USA?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 03:48 AM

I knew it was someone on the Bloomsbury team, didn't know whether it was the inside right, or the inside left.

no wonder they were none league.

Anyway I stand corrected.

my guess is the Yanks and Italy.

As Freddie Goodwin once said about the Yanks, the thing about the Yanks is that theres over 300 million of them. My problem, as a manager,is locating eleven of them who can play football..

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 06:31 AM

Ghana 4 - 1 U.S.A


Amen!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 08:40 AM

Ghana and Italy. (With Ghana winning against the USA and Italy drawing against the Czechs.)

And in the other group, Australia to go through, and go through. (Either way it's a Croat team winning.)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 12:24 PM

Ghana v USA another awful game between two very poor sides, German referee Merk didn`t help matters by being over fussy, handing out yellow cards for the most trivilal tackles.
Merk gifted Ghana a penalty which left the TV commentary team running the incident over and over and not finding fault with the US defenders clean header,a very long boring 90 minutes.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Les from Hull
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 12:57 PM

Didn't see that much of the game, but did the USA exit the World Cup because of two very bad refereeing decisions? Reyna was surely fouled for Ghana's first goal and I didn't look like a penalty for the second. Of course the camera's view is different to the refs.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 01:00 PM

I am pleased to see Ghana qualify as their play in the 3 games so far really deserves this but in truth the USA team really have been victim to some of the very worst refereeing calls.......

Ghana's reward (in their next game against Brazil) looks to be an easy victory for Ghana.

The Czech Rep have been a little unlucky too and perhaps deserved to qualify from this group a lot more than Italy do. Italy's early goal and the Czech's second yellow card did make it a lot easier than I thought it would be for Italy - who do not look anywhere near some of the previous Italian World Cup sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 01:32 PM

Italy always looked like a team. In contrast, England seem like eleven troubled(although talented) individuals.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 02:04 PM

Italy always looked like a team. In contrast, England seem like eleven troubled(although talented) individuals.

I sure that poor old Sven will be blamed for this too. But in all truth the same eleven players referred to would probably appear in the teams chosen by most of England's armchair managers, journalists and ex-international footballers.

Italy did look to be more of a team I accept but one playing just about as good as they were going to get. The only consolation for England supporters is that there is obviously still a lot of room for improvement and they do have the individuals who can improve and fire the rest of the team. I suggest that the next games - when it is win or else- should be the ones for comparisons between the teams of England and Italy.....

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Allen in Oz
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 06:06 PM

Australia 2 Croatia 2...now that was a game ( no finesse but who cares?) Did you enjoy the part where the Croatian bloke was given a second yellow card but did not leave the field ? It was sort of indicative of the whole game really .The closest run thing since Waterloo. But all good fun

Best wishes

AD

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 08:04 PM

I think that we may see Australia make the final stages but I think we can safely say that the referee of this match will not.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 08:47 PM

Well, I had Italy and the Czechs down as a draw, but otherwise I was spot on. (And if that Czech player hadn't been sent off I think that game would probably have been a draw.)

As for referees' wrong decisions, people always seem to comment on the ones that go against the side they support and forget the ones that unfairly helped it. So far all the referees seem to have been evenhanded, even when it came to making strange decisions or cocking things up.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 01:42 AM

Right. The day players stop making mistakes will be the day the refs will! Peter Crouch should certainly have seen a card - possibly even a red one - for his foul against Trinidad and Tobago. I think England would have won anyway though. They were well on top at the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 04:25 AM

McGrath, Did you see the Ghana v USA game, if you didn`t please don`t comment on the worst refere I have seen in this world cup, a penalty was awarded to Ghana for a defender cleanly heading away the ball, nothing anyone else could spot only Referee Merk and this after countless re-plays of the incident, hopefully Merks last game.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Folkiedave
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 04:47 AM

I didn´t watch the Australia - Croatia game so I would be reluctant to comment on the performance of the refereee under normal circumstances.

However Graham Poll is a particular figure of hatred for (us) Sheffield United fans after the 2003 F.A.Cup semi-final when he virtually gave Arsenal the goal that won them the game. He missed a blatant foul and then got in the way of a player racing to tackle back. Arsenal went on to score. TV showed the crowd were right and Poll was wrong. I hope that is the last we hear of "Here´s a man who is hoping England don´t get to the final so he can".

The United fans forum is currently full of letters greeting his demise in this world cup. And good riddance.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 05:40 AM

Graham Poll was never going to get the final anyway - as his home country England, will of course be there to win it.

The fate of the French team will be decided today. They have not played well but perhaps it is too early to write them off? In 1998 they had only just scraped through from the group stage after playing very poorly. And in their first knock-out match, it was only a extra time 'Golden Goal' that saw them overcome Paraguay - but they went on to win the whole thing and in great style.

A win for them against Togo will be enough but a draw will probably not be.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Les from Hull
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 09:18 AM

Australia v Croatia was a somewhat 'vigorous' match, and so Pole was right to issue the cards he did. His spot for the handball for Australia's penalty was really very good. But he missed two more infrigements that could have resulted in penalties for Australia and ended up giving two yellow cards to a Croatian defender and failing to send him off. There has been a plenty of blatant cheating at this World Cup but Croatia seemed to take it to a new level.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 10:01 AM

When playing football don't expect the referee to be on your side,just go ahead and win if you think you are up to the task. it is only a weak side that blames referees.

How come Brazil have not complained about the officiating. just go ahead and win the game and stop putting your hopes on the referee.

Even though on hind-sight I might say that certain decisions of the referee are just not the best.

GHANAAAA! NEVER SAY DIE

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 10:24 AM

Now Quarcoo, all you have to do is knock Brazil out of the World Cup and... Good luck anyway. It must have been a great day for you yesterday.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 10:43 AM

Too bad I don't drink Alanabit,because believe me, I wouldn't have got the strenght to get up his morning. Everybody is now complaining about the timing of the victory, a weekend would have been most appopriate for the celebration. It gave the cops a hell of a job to do.

But I know we will do well against Brazil. We have beaten them at the youth stage before but not at the seniotr level. we hope to emulate the achievement of the Nigerian olympic team in Atlanta '96.
we have nothing to loose.

Ghana vrs Brazil
David vrs Goliath

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Les from Hull
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 11:33 AM

Well done Ghana. If you check the latest FIFA rankings the teams that didn't progress from this group were ranked 2 (Czech Republic) and 5 (USA) in the world. Ghana were ranked 48.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 06:06 PM

Couldn't see the whole Ghana game, but from what I could see the referee was making blunders in all directions, rather than trying to skew the result one way or another. So it was a matter of incompetance rather than corruption. Fortunately the errors more or less balanced out, and the better side got through. (And the same happened in the Australia / Croatia game.)

But I'll make sure to see Ghana play Brazil. That should be a cracker.

The FIFA ratings are a joke. They must be drawn up by those kind of referees.

There are always these compilation programmes and DVDs about great sporting cock-ups, own goals and suchlike. No doubt there will be a "daftest refereeing decisions" version coming out, with Graham Poll in a starring role.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 06:08 PM

Is it true Graham Poll is going to become a judge in the English courts when he gets home ?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 02:48 AM

Right now we reach the stage where the real action starts.

France will now need to be watched - no matter how unconvincing they have looked up to now. And my dark horse (to go to the later stages anyway - if not to win) Switzerland are still there unbeaten and still looking hard to beat.

Time for predictions on who will be the last eight teams.

Sweden
Agentina
England
Portugal
Australia
Switzerland
Brazil
Spain

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 03:53 AM

Germany, for the last one.....!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Ally
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 05:35 AM

England fans at it again !

Great the world sees beer bellied fans at their finest.


Around 100 arrests were made in the early hours of Saturday morning by police in Stuttgart.

Police said a number of bottles and chairs were thrown into a crowd by a rowdy group of fans from the terrace of a bar in the city's main square.

Arrests were for chair-throwing, fighting with passing Germans, breaking windows and for possession of cocaine .

A police spokesman said the fans who were arrested would go before a judge. They could be banned from the city centre.

The square is also the location of the Fans Fest, the main big screen facility in the city.

Stuttgart police spokesman Stefan Keilbach said: "English fans had been drinking all day outside a cafe in the Schlossplatz and they became aggressive, throwing chairs and bottles at other people and the police.

"Officers made 100 arrests. Nobody was hurt."

Insulting songs

Assistant Chief Constable Stephen Thomas, who's in charge of the British police officers in Germany for the World Cup told the BBC how the trouble started.

"By six o'clock there were 300 to 400 people singing racist and quite insulting songs about quite a lot of people, throwing some chairs, bottles and tables, and at that stage the German police tried to disperse them.

"A hard core of about 80 to 100 refused to go and had a standoff with police, and then a decision was taken to arrest them under the preventative powers the police here in Germany have."

No doubt more to come.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 06:27 AM

I guess they've seen worse.....

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 07:48 AM

Josip Simunic when given the third yellow card by big-head Ref Graham Poll, declared that he hadn`t received as many cards at Christmas.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 07:52 AM

I hope the good people of Stuttgart have a peaceful week-end, there is every possibilty that the citizens of that German town may be put of football for life after witnessing the beer-bellied racists scum polluting their town.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 08:43 AM

obviously never been to Stuttgart, it would take more than that...

The Germans REALLY love football. they are SO into the World Cup, and they were ready for anything and more, and its not going to rain on their parade.

and winning will be...just heaven..

Alanabit was telling me one time he was with some German friends after a victory, and their response ...oh well we're used to winning.


When I was there a few weeks ago though, I talked to a lot of people and I think thay have a secret little compartment in the back of their mind. i think they KNOW.....its in the bag!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Folkiedave
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 10:21 AM

I seem to remember that Gary Lineker once said:

"Football is a game with 22 people and in the end the Germans always win".

Though this year - Argentina, Brasil and Spain looked good in the opening rounds (as well).

And I hope the Germans lock up the hooligans and keep them there to the end of the World Cup. Never mind about banning them from the City Centre.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 12:04 PM

absolutely...the red hot poker up the bum school of counselling to help them confront their aggressive behaviour patterns.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Ally
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 02:04 PM

Just saw ITN news.English fans attack German fans leaving the grounds after their victory this afternoon. Scenes of children running screaming to the chants of a World War Two victory over Germany and other abusive remarks.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 05:58 PM

Argentina played well were really a bit lucky and had the sort of substitutes to bring on late in the game that any team would envy. But they should have been down to 10 men against a good Mexico side. But this referee only gives Hienze a yellow card and for exactly the offence that the rule that a red card should be shown, was brought in for.

The idea was to discourage defenders from making those sort of fouls by making it clear to them that if they did - they would be sent off. This defender did take the chance and sadly got away with a foul that most probably prevented Mexico from scoring.

Having said that - the winning goal was worthy of winning any match. Argentina v Germany should be interesting.

Where were the Swedish players today? They may well have won - had they actually turned-up......................

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 06:15 PM

Now the Argentina Mexico match was what it's all about, producing matches like that. The kind of matches that makes you sorry there has to be a loser

The Germany Sweden open on the other hand I couldn't keep my eyes awake.   

And of course they both had daft refereeing decisions, which balanced out - eg a perfectly valid Argentine goal was ruled out for an offside that wasn't. Swings and roundabouts.

................
It was good seing the Mexican and Argentine spectators mingled in together, and no trouble.   I think segregating fans as a way of reducing violence, either at the grounds or elsewhere, may well have the reverse effect, generating confrontation rather than defusing it.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 06:17 PM

Now the Argentina Mexico match was what it's all about, producing matches like that. The kind of matches that makes you sorry there has to be a loser

The Germany Sweden game on the other hand I couldn't keep my eyes awake.   

And of course they both had daft refereeing decisions, which balanced out - eg a perfectly valid Argentine goal was ruled out for an offside that wasn't. Swings and roundabouts.

................
It was good seing the Mexican and Argentine spectators mingled in together, and no trouble.   I think segregating fans as a way of reducing violence, either at the grounds or elsewhere, may well have the reverse effect, generating confrontation rather than defusing it.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Les from Hull
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 06:19 PM

A player, substitute or substituted player is sent off and shown the red card if he commits any of the following seven offences:

(...)

5. denies an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick...

That's the rule according to FIFA - nothing about the offender being the last man.

Still - a great game, lots of skill, spirit and energy shown by both sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 07:17 PM

What seems to have been lost is the whole point of these cards is to prevent and deter cynical, intentional and dangerous fouls from being committed in the first place. And this does not work and along with the official also struggling with the offside rules - threatens to make a fine game into a mockery.

For in practice it now works that - the two yellow cards are actually giving permission for players to commit one bad foul. In fact, this is really permission for all the players to commit two bad intentional fouls - as the first one will not usually receive a card at all. How often do you see a player who has just cynically decided to foul another - hold up their hand to the referee to indicate that it was only their first one?

The idea should be that a defender who knows they can only stop an attacking player by fouling them - should always know and be prepared to face the consequences of them deciding to commit that foul. At the moment - the odds of them getting away with such actions - encourages them to take the chance.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 07:24 PM

It does often seem to happen that a dodgy or plain wrong decision that favours one side is balanced later in the game by a similarly dodgy decisison the other way. Is this inexorable Karma, or do referees deliberately try to balance things out and restore some kind of rough justice?

And are they sometimes affected, when it comes to things like failing to give a red card, by a reluctance to spoil what promises to be an outstandingly good game? Which would have been the result tonight.

I know it isn't the same thing, but I can imagine a situation of musicians getting yellow and ultimately red cards for playing bum notes. That wouldn't be the best way to get good music.

There is a case for saying that a referee has a responsibility to help ensure that a good and enjoyable match takes place, and should have some limited freedom to adjust the strict interpretation of the rules to achieve that end.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 03:12 AM

the red hot poker up the bum school of counselling to help them confront their aggressive behaviour patterns

English fans attack German fans leaving the grounds after their victory this afternoon. Scenes of children running screaming to the chants of a World War Two victory over Germany and other abusive remarks.

Banning them from the City Centre will allow them to continue their activities and since most grounds seem to be outside City Centres that is likely to be the scene of them. Putting them in jail for the duration of the World Cup won´t.

I am not interested in trying to cure their behaviour whilst they are in Germany since it is not a German problem, just keeping them and their "aggressive behaviour patterns" away from decent law-abiding citizens, especially children.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 03:19 AM

For many years the scum have had nothing more to fear than being held for twenty four hours and then put on a plane home. If they were treated as the common criminals they are, they could be put out of reach for long enough to make the rest of us safe for a long time.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 03:32 AM

For many years the scum have had nothing more to fear than being held for twenty four hours and then put on a plane home. If they were treated as the common criminals they are, they could be put out of reach for long enough to make the rest of us safe for a long time.

Oh come on now - the Swedish team were not THAT bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 07:18 AM

The latest news from Stuttgart is very bad, it is reported that upwards of 400 English supporters have been arrested, the English Policeman in charge of observing the fans, told us on Thursday that `we have everything in hand` and foolishly went on to say that `there would be no trouble`.
Get these thugs of the streets of Germany, they are dragging our name in the gutter.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 08:43 AM

I agree with you Guest, but could you please use a name?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 11:57 AM

Well, I have just seen the first half and the good news for Ard Mhacha is that England will almost certainly be on the plane home tomorrow morning. It is neither a lack of effort, nor a lack of talent. They just can't get their game going. Ecuador have them well under control and it will be painful to watch them finish off England as their legs fail in the heat. Only an unexpected rainstorm or a miracle can save England now. It is a shame, because it is probably the last time in my life that England will send a talented enough squad to have a real chance. Are England due for a football miracle?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: David C. Carter
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 12:21 PM

They just scored!
But could be doing better.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 01:36 PM

Well, we got a miracle and a thunderstorm. The thunderstorm was in Köln. It was so violent that it took out the TV reception completely and it was so near that we had to unplug our TV and the internet ISDN box. (We lost both last time we got hit by lightning). The miralce is that England are through because of a goalkeeping error. They never came close to scoring in the first half or in the last ten minutes, which I saw.
They looked dead on their feet at the end. Beckham made it look like hard work to walk to the bench. That is the fourth time they have failed to get their game going, yet the third time they have won. They have not made many new friends here, but their luck seems to be holding.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 01:51 PM

The bad news is that Wayne Rooney was expected to do the impossible.

The good news is that he performed a miracle.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 06:07 AM

England's armchair managers, TV pundits, ex-fooballers, jounalists and assorted second-guesser are miserable enough at their home team topping their group and progressing to the quarter final.

I hate to think how miserable they would be - if their team's players were at home watching - like the teams from Sweden, Holland, Mexico, Equador and those that will join them in the next two days, those who did not get out of the group stages and those who did not even qualify for the final stages.

I fear that many critics are now so stuck in this groove - that when the England team actually win the World Cup - this fact will completely escape them. The day after - they will still be writing about the team not performing as good as they could be and this or that player or formation being better. I think some journalists may have even written this already...........

Perhaps it is time to get real? All the best players in the world are in Germany and trying their best to win. None of them are going to lay down and allow any other team to not only beat them - but to be seen to do it with ease and style. Should any team manage to do this - they will deserve some credit, but it is only the result that will really matter and this will only come after both sides have given maximum effort.

At this moment, in the case of Portugal's Big Phil - he is trying to put out 11 players who are not suspended or injured.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 06:18 AM

That Portugal-Holland match did as much to bring the game into disrepute as any actions of the Fans.

Four players sent off, and 16 yellow cards, both apparentley records. Woul dhave been alot neater if they'd just stopped the game for a wrestling match in the middle......

It does mean the Portugese will be walking on egg-shells for the england match, with so many players on cards, and seemingly half the squad suspended.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 06:45 AM

We were particularly pleased that England were top of their table - It meant they played on the 'right' day for those of us with the Abram Morris dance on Saturday! I watched thr match yesterday afternoon and thought we were going to be on our way home after the first half - But that Beckham bloke certainly pulled one out of the hat didn't he! Nearly made up for that infamous missed penalty...

On the crowd behavior side. I was lucky enough to have done some work in Stuttgart for a few days. While I was there it was the time that lots of young men were either going into or coming out of the army - Can't remember which. There were dozens of them all staggering around the town squares, chanting and singing and... Shaking the hands of complete strangers, kissing the hands of old ladies and behaving generaly far better than most yobs in Manchester on Saturday night! It isn't football that causes the yobs. But it certainly seems to give our particular ones a good excuse:-(

Anyhow, back to far more serious topics. My prediction is now definitely on track. 40 years on revenge will be sweet. England and Germany in the final. Germany will win 4-2 after extra time. Wolfgang, what is the German for "Some people are on the pitch. They think it's all over. It is now!"

Cheers

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 06:48 AM

Oh - and I love the commentators. My favourites from last night?

"Yellow boots - Yellow card. They go together."

and

"Sven has managed to find a new formation. 4-5-2. Rooney plays like two anyway!"

God bless 'em all:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 08:22 AM

The Portugal-Netherlands match was a wrestling match. he referee looked so helpless, like a school boy in the middle of traffic. And how could Figo behave that way, for a matured player.

It looked like American football in the second half. The two teams must be face some serious desciplinary action from FIFA.

Alanabit, give the English team some credit. That free-kick was superb, and it takes a genuis to convert that kind of kick.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Paul Burke
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 08:40 AM

Dunno Dave, I only got a C in German O level. But this is a Mr. Happy on it via German:

"Some people are on the clock period. They think that it completely more rueber its. It now is!"

and via Korean:

"It is a few people pitch. Them think that it is it this completely. Now is,!"

Chinese:

"Certain people are in the asphalt. They thought it everywhere is. This is the present!"

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 09:09 AM

A couple comments from a Yank that admires the game of Football.(Soccer)

Many diehards in the US denigrate the game - probably due to the fact they, like the NFL players, could not last 15 minutes on that field of play.

Also done as more young people participate in Soccer than any other sport here.

Heard a former pro baseball player say this AM that those who can't play BB, FB, BB have to play Soccer. Horsepucky!

Every public place in the US Midwest, be it Tavern, coffee house or Restaurant with a Telly, has been loaded with Soccer spectators.

However, and not to be taken as an affront as we experience fights at our football games, why do some of the English chaps have to get their boxers in a wad and become hooligans? This is not for us taken as an example of football behavior but mostly as an example of bad behavior by a few Brit fans.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Les from Hull
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 11:30 AM

If it wasn't football, it would be something else. With football it's a sort of tribalism, normally 'supporting' one team and beating up those who support another. For international matches these idiots then transfer their affection to our national team. As the press have been reporting their antics for years, they think they've got a reputation to maintain.

Anyway, for the next match, c'mon Aussie c'mon!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: JennyO
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 12:52 PM

We wuz ROBBED!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 12:54 PM

A sickener for Australia. Ten seconds before the end. There are few teams who could have held out against the Italians for so long though.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 01:15 PM

The offence (if it was one) although in the penalty area, was obstruction, as the defender made no movement to foul the attacker but just fell and did not get out of the way. An indirect free-kick - rather than the penalty award would have been the correct decision. And that would have been bad enough and just as unfair.

But other than that the refereeing was better anyway.

Yes the Australian team played well and were robbed. Although the 10 man Italian team did play well. But perhaps the Australian manager had counted on extra time to introduce the remaining subs and that was the fatal mistake?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 01:20 PM

Or perhaps the Italians bribed the official?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: freda underhill
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 01:25 PM

I'm proud of the Australian team - they were playing chess with their feet, their technique was great - I can't wait til the next series!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 01:52 PM

Alanabit, give the English team some credit. That free-kick was superb, and it takes a genuis to convert that kind of kick.

I tend to agree. Had that goal been scored by a Brazilian or Argentinian - most Englishmen would have gone overboard with admiration and heaped generous praise on the scorer and on the skills they had spent so much time practicing and perfecting.

The first thing English comentators can come up with - is telling us how long it was since Beckham last scored from a free kick and suggesting that the goalkeeper was somehow at fault. Even when at the time - poor old Beckham was suffering from dehydration and later threw-up and had to go off.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 02:19 PM

I do give Beckham credit for his guts in playing on and his superbly struck free kick. However, at this level, we don't very often see a free kick slip in at the near post - especially when the goalkeeper gets his hand to it. Credit to Beckham and all the players indeed. The luck went with England too though.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 05:35 PM

It is a contest and the kicker is asking the question. The goalkeeper (and defence) have to provide the answer.

When their skill in doing this is enough to prevent a goal - this skill should be recognised but perhaps never detract from recognising the skills of the kicker?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 07:07 PM

At the end of the day there's an enormous element of luck, along with incredible skill. Younhave to have both. The players are the first to admit that, and to recognise that the winning side in a particular match, or even in an event such as the World Cup isn't by any means always the best side.

Which is as well for people looking towards an England victory. Or a German victory. Or in fact a victory for... Name your favourite.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 08:49 PM

THANK GOD WE IN AUSTRALIA CAN NOW GET A GOOD NIGHTS SLEEP AND GET BACK TO AUSSIE RULES

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 01:46 AM

Switzerland go out (on penalties) - despite never conceeding a goal in any of their matches and boring everyone to death in this last one.

I can't see today's Ghana v Brazil being a repeat of this dire defensive struggle and one can only hope that France v Spain will be the classic encounter it promises to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Escamillo
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 01:59 AM

I feel here like a lonely fan waving an Argentine flag in the stadium, but.. ok, all are friends after all, and we Argies are still on the way ! And nobody has made a reservation for a ticket to Buenos Aires next Friday. Wolfgang, would you bet for a virtual beer ?

Un abrazo - Andrés

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 02:45 AM

I think we can safely say that either team out of Germany v Argentina will most probably go on to feature in the final.

We can say with more certainty that one of them will not.

Which one will it be?

The best team of the two is Argentina who have been the outstanding team of the competition so far - so it is bound to be them who go out (probably after a penalty shoot-out).

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 04:09 AM

I have always been fond of saying that in football, even the better side requires luck to win. That is why it is so hard to predict anything.
As to the quarter finals, Argentina against Germany looks like a cracker. Argentina have more natural individual skill and at times have also blended majestically. This team looks more like the football artists of 1978 than the - erm - less attractive side of 1990... Germany have less natural talent, but they have found form and a rhythm at just the right time. They will also have the crowd behind them. I am making no predictions, but it could well be the best game in the tournament. I won't miss it!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 02:29 PM

Sorry to see Ghana go home. They provided a lot more skill and entertainment than many teams who remain. They played well against Brazil and had a real go at them - but Brazil still mangaged to win 3 - 0 and without appearing to really break sweat.............

Congratulations also to Ronaldo who with his fine goal in today's game became the highest individual goal scorer in World Cup Finals. He is some player and is still able to do things that his critics can only dream about. It is delight and a privilige to see him play so well, at the highest level and under the most incredible pressure.

What he does may look lazy to some but that is because he does what he does so well that it appears to be easy. More to come.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 06:37 PM

Yes.... Ronaldo... congrats for scoring the record breaker and the only (real) goal of the game.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 07:52 PM

Not the only one, Escamillo - I'm hoping and expecting to see Argentina beat Germany on Friday, and then go on to beat Italy in the semi and Brazil in the final.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,s
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 08:53 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 08:54 PM

Bra-zil! Bra-zil!

Well, they outscored Ghana, but Ghana definitely outplayed Brazil. But it's the score that counts, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 04:21 AM

Yeah its the score that counts. Now all we have to do is, learn our lessons quickly,get better goal scorers and keep the team together. Ghana played the qualifier with 80 players and 5 coaches,that is to tell you that we have loads of players but the problem is getting the right team.

But I am very proud of our teanm,in the end we lost to an experienced side. But there is always a next time. Watch out for Ghana in 2010.

GHANAAAA! NEVER SAY DIE.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 04:56 AM

It was the same old Spainish teams as of old. Promising much but delivering little.

What happened to them? The first half was one of the best games of this tournament and despite conceeding a goal - Spain had the better of it. The second half they never looked like winning and even in the time left, after France's second goal, they didn't seem to want to know.

Talk about a game of two halfs - or is that halves?

I must admit my predictions for the quarter finals were not very accurate - but I did get Brazil, England, Portugal and Argentina right.

I confidently predict that the semi finals will be Agentina v Italy and England v Brazil.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 05:10 AM

Luis ARAGONES (ESP)
It was a very even game. We had more possession in the first half and created more opportunities. We made a mistake not stopping (Frank) Ribery with a tactical foul before he scored, and I didn't think there was a foul for the second goal. Even so, we weren't able to stop their player in time.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Escamillo
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 05:39 AM

Excuse my ignorance, Mr. Aragonés, what is a "Tactical foul" ?? Oh, I see, it is an intentional foul against one player who approaches too fast to the area. A Strategical Foul is when all the 11 players attack the other team with baseball bats !

If Argentina reaches the semi-finals I invite six Mudcatters (air ticket not included) for a dinner in Buenos Aires where they will taste the best beef in the world. And attend a tango concert too.

Un abrazo - Andrés

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 06:44 AM

Saying, "We should have committed a tactical foul," is effectively saying, "I wish we had cheated". I am not sad to see that sides who think like that are on the plane home.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 12:00 PM

I'm really surprised what the coach has made within the time of six weeks with the German team. Some of them don't even play regularly in their clubs. The defense still looks quite vulnerable but the attacking part of the team is unusually good. With Klose the team has one more player of international class than I had thought.

Also, the style they play is somewhat new to me. Where is the old safety first, no risk no fun, boring play we were used to? This team may lose against Argentine and we'll still love them more than many of the old teams.

Argentine is a tough task, they have played well, so far. I would have preferred Mexico but the majority of the team say they prefer Argentine. Last time Germany has beaten Argentine was in 1990, so I don't know what makes them prefer Argentine.

Summary of the groups:
5 teams from Africa played, one reached the last sixteen (eliminated now)
4 teams from Asia played, none reached the next round
14 teams from Europe played, 10 made the next round (6 still in)
4 teams from South America played, all four came through (2 still in)
4 teams from North America played, 1 made the next round and was eliminated then.
Australia is the missing team, but I don't know where to put them.

Well, for a world cup it is always a good idea to have teams from many parts of the world, but quite a few European and South American teams who had to stay home would have been stronger than many of the other teams. I see no reason to give the other parts of the world more places as they sometimes demand.

Last time it looked as if the former "weak" teams had their breakthrough but this time the quarter finals look like we were used to see them: 6 from Europe, 2 from South America.
1998: 6 Europe, 2 (the same two of course) South America
1994: 7 Europe 1 South America
1990: 6 Europe, 1 South America, 1 Africa
1986: 5 Europe, 2 South America and the host (Mexico)
1982: no quarter finals, of the last 12 10 were from Europe and usual 2 from South America
1978: no quarter finals but of the last 8 5 were from Europe, 3 from South America
1974: no quarter finals, but of the last eight it was 6/2 once more
1970: 4 Europe, 3 South America and Mexico (host)
1966: I stopped there

It is know that there seems to be an advantage for the home team, but did you know that there is an even stronger advantage for the home continent?
The finals were 7 times in America. Each time an American team did win.
The finals were 9 times in Europe: 8 times a European team did win. Only once, in 1958, the Brazilean dream team with Didi, Vava, Pele, Garrincha could win in Europe.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 12:32 PM

"Professional foul" is the term generally used in English football. I don't know why. That kind of thing is not exactly unknown in the amateur game...

I've never understood how home advantage works. I'd have thought that having a hostile crowd baying for your blood would be just the thing to make players more determined. Leaving aside the situation where there is a genuine possibility of a pitch invasion.

Anyway if there's a home continent advantage that should help Ghana next time, even though it's nearly as far from there to Cape Town as it is to Berlin. Better luck next time - Ghana could well have scored a couple against Brazil with a bit better finishing. (Though I suspect that if that had happened Brazil woudl have lifted their game and scored a couple more.)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 01:25 PM

We made a mistake not stopping (Frank) Ribery with a tactical foul before he scored-

Perhaps something was lost in translation - which may have also been the case in the racist remarks this coach was supposed to have said to the French players about Arsenal's Henry, a while back.

After the free kick which resulted in the 2nd French goal - I would to hate the think what he is saying (in private) about Henry now. I sure Henry thinks that justice was done......

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 02:26 PM

All teams retreat, everything is tactical and pre-exercised, nothing's vibrating. Germany is the exception. I wish Brazil would play like Germany (Tostao, from the Brazilian winning team of 1970)

That is too much of a praise, but I know what he means. Brazil was fed up with having an individually brilliant team and not winning the championship after 1970 for more than two decades. Then the public pressure decided if they couldn't have both at the same time, the title and the Samba, they'd go for the title instead.

Since then Brazil has been in all three finals but their play has lost the easiness and the Samba. They are still individually brilliant but it shows that the majority of their players now play in European teams. They have learned to play efficiently, with very low risk. and they have become more boring than before the 90s. With the exception of some rare incidents of individual brilliance they play much more like the other teams than at Pele's time. Sometimes for several minutes you can't tell they are Brazil and not some other team, except that their ball control is better than let's say Germany, but not really better than Mexico or Italy or France.

Germany had a team which was a pleasure to watch in the 60s and in part of the 70s. After then some individually great players left and they started to play like bureaucrats or exercising soldiers for more than two decades. They were successful but very boring to watch. They could destroy a game but they couldn't really play.

The present team plays a different style. Since more than two decades I have never had so much fun watching them as now. They are a bit young and the individual class is missing in some players but the way they play as a team is a welcome change from 20 years of what we call civil-servant-football.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 02:57 PM

I'll go along with what you say about Germany Wolfgang. It all seems to have come together in the past few weeks. They are much better to watch and they are playing like a team and to their strengths.
If Argentina play to their full potential on Saturday, they will win. No one is taking that for certain though. I also think the Germans are quite fair enough to support Jurgen Klinsmann if they give Argentina a good game. They are proud of the effort and morale of this side. The DFB will not find it easy to sack him.
On the whole, I think this tournament has been a lot better than the previous one. The French and the Argentines barely turned up last time. No one can say that now. The quarter finalists all look like possible winners, with the exception of the Ukraine. I think they will prove cannon fodder for Argentina in the unlikely event that they make it to the semi final.
Brazil still look like the best bet, because they can win comfortably without even playing well. I don't expect the French to do them any favours though, and given a little luck...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 03:15 PM

...As the tension mounts before Saturday, perhaps England's players can take
solace in a familiar soothing sound to ease those nerves. Namely the
accordion skills of assistant manager, Tord Grip. Apparently Tord is very
accomplished, his nimble fingers getting many a good tune out of an old
accordion. And a Swedish journalist told me Tord has already got his hands
on one for the tournament. So picture this, Wayne Rooney listening intently
to the strains of "Ack Värmeland du sköna", or maybe the Yuletide melody
"Hej, tomtegubbar". My own personal favourite is "Johan på Snippen" -
although I dread to think what it's about.

reposted from the 'net... Phil McNulty - BBC Sport Online chief football
writer    28 Jun 06, 03:55 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 03:56 PM

And here's a picture of him playing.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 04:04 PM

England's secret weapon - is Swedish folk music?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 04:26 PM

Well, anything could be better than tatooed, beer bellied wallies growling out of tune (or even in tune) "God Save The Queen". Bring on the Swedish folk music!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 29 Jun 06 - 02:04 AM

Agentina has the Tango
Brazil lets the Samba rip
They lead us all a merry dance
England have got to get a Grip

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 29 Jun 06 - 02:44 AM

That was in in honour of the Argentinian refree set to take the England v Portugal match - who (unlike me) is a poet.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 29 Jun 06 - 03:15 AM

FIFA's thinking behind this appointment is as follows

England have a chance to win
With Rooney, Crouch and Beckham
We can't have that
We'll knock them flat
An Argentinian ref will wreck 'em

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 29 Jun 06 - 05:29 AM

In view of the. "Boot it up in the air and chase it," style of football favoured when Peter Crouch is in the team, I should think that his name is the one which the Portuguese would most like to see on the team sheet. Some will laugh, some will yawn, but very few will fear him at this level!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Folkiedave
Date: 29 Jun 06 - 07:01 PM

Some World Cup Myths Dispelled

David Beckham contributes nothing, he's not even any good at dead-ball striking now.

It's referees from nations who aren't much good at football being "given a go" at the World Cup who ruin matches (thanks to a Mr Poll for that particular bit of chop busting),

Ronaldo is overweight, past it, and couldn't score in a seedy metaphor.

Mexico are rubbish and make a mockery of the FIFA world rankings.

Portugal versus Holland; that should be a game for the purists.

Germany have their worst team ever; only Ballack's any good, they'll be lucky to make the second round.

Say what you like about the USA, I think they might just ruffle a few feathers on their way to the semis.

Argentina will destroy everone.

If only England played like the Czech Republic...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 06:56 AM

And some confirmed.

The Spanish team always promise more than they deliver.

Never write-off any German team.

The African teams can do everything but score goals.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 01:31 PM

I predict that Germany v Argentina will go to penalties.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 02:16 PM

WooHoo - My prediction is still on-track then:-)

Trouble is now Germany have now used up the score I predict in the final against England.

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 02:35 PM

That was a spirited fightback and excellent win over a vastly more talented team. The Germans simply wanted it more and they stepped up a gear after they had fallen behind. I doubt if you will get very long odds against a Brazil Germany final now. Maybe WLD is right. He obviously did not see the Germans six weeks ago, when they did not like beating anyone. Today they stepped up a class and of all the remaining sides, only Brazil look remotely capable of beating them.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 02:42 PM

If ever a team deserved to lose it was Argentina, retreating into defence to defend a one goal lead, and the taking off there only playmaker Riquleme, gutless in the extreme.
Well done Germany you deserved your victory.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 07:59 PM

As you probably all guessed. I know sod all about football. I'm not much of a fan - I have difficulty in sitting through an entire match.

However - this is the third time I've had some sort of music product in the shops connected with the German team and at the time of a major tournament. So I've watched their build up a couple of times with a sort of detached professional interest.

the apparently low key preparedness, the talking down in interviews of their chances, the uniformity with which that is presented - it all masks a steely determination.

As for which teams will stand in their way. i personally think that 'teamlike' teams like the Italians, and to some extent the Brazilians in a way are easier for them to figure out. In the same way that snooker players like Thorburn and Steve Davies worked out strategies to break the rhythm and concentration of players like Alex Higgins and Jimmy White. I should imagine the set pieces and sequences of highly co-ordinated teams are easier to second guess than teams built around the strengths of talented individuals.

I remember running round the living room - punching the air with excitement when Rummenigge's goal went in against Argentina in '86. I'm saving myself up for that reaction when Ballack sticks one in this time. I hope he hasn't hurt himself too badly.

best wishes to all.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 08:04 PM

It was a similar pattern as France v Spain. First half was all Argentina. The game was theirs in the second half too, until they made the substitutions.

It was argued that having a strong bench for a manager to pick from was going to be important in the later stages. Perhaps in Argentina's case - there was too many to choose from?

I see the man of the match went to Ballack. I would have chosen Tevez. He was very unfortunate to be on the losing side after making his contribution, but I suppose he is young enough to be on the winning side in future competitions. I do hope so.

The moral of this tale - as often before is - don't get into a penalty shoot-out with Germany.................

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Scotland forever
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 04:24 AM

England leave the World Cup today after a easy run playing rubbish teams. Them and their paid hookers, also known as WAGS will leave Germany and look back on their series of dives on the field..

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 07:00 AM

bit of a wag yourself, sir, if you don't mind me sayin'....

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Hans Mueller
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 07:30 AM

Yes!!!!! Predictions just for fun:

England 1 - 2 Portugal
Brazil 2 - 3 France (or 0 - 3)

Germany 2 - 4 Italy
Portugal 0 - 2 France

Italy 1 - 2 France

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 08:37 AM

I only could see the 90 minutes and then had to go.
Argentine was better until they scored a goal. But the statistics of the first half were interesting: Roughly two third ball possession for Argentine but only 1 shot to the goal opposed to 5 by Germany.

Both Argentine and Germany were leading before yesterday in the penalty shootout records with three won both. Italy is worst BTW with all three lost.

But Germany has never beaten Italy yet in any of the four world cup gemes between the two. Earlier this year Italy has beaten Germany 4:1 and that was only because they were lazy in the second half. I see Italy in the final except after a boring 120 minutes 0:0.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 10:11 AM

Just come back from Asda where they are selling Italian shirts for half price. Think they know something we don't?

England 2 Portugal 1

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 10:27 AM

Germany needs to get 40 virgins, a pot of gold, a spinning wheel that turns straw to gold, a goose that lays a golden egg, and whatever else they can find and give it to their goalkeeper. He was magnificent in that shootout.

Mick, who loves watching the World Cup.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 11:59 AM

Half time and no score yet but both teams looking dangerous at times. And pretty poor at others:-(

Please, please, please don't let it go to penalties. Anything but that!

DtG - getting back before they restart.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Ernest
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 12:16 PM

Walked past an vegetarian indian restaurant today. In the place where they used to have some kind of shrine for some indian god was - guess what - a tv-screen.

So much for monotheism.

Best
Ernest

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 12:29 PM

Rooney off and England now have no striker at all. It looks like they are about to lose to Portugal's reserves. Even if England fluked a win - they would be cannon fodder against Brazil on Wednesday without a proper striker. What a disgraceful end to their World Cup campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 01:13 PM

This is unbearable. England are fighting hard, but are frankly being outclassed in passing and movement. No game is ever lost for certain when Steve Gerrard is on the field, but this one really does have "heroic failure" written all over it. Please God don't let it go to penalties...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 01:33 PM

that cunning portuguese swine - trying to break Rooney's metatarsals with his bollocks!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 01:44 PM

He was quite rightly sent off and England's shame is now complete. Well done Portugal!
They beat England with a reserve team.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 01:51 PM

Without doubt just watched the most pleasurable game of the World Cup so far. Excellent win for Portugal well done.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 01:51 PM

Although it is sad to see them lose, I shall be very glad to get back to real news in the papers and on TV for a change.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 01:55 PM

That Divis is the perfect definition of Schadenfreude.
G

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 02:15 PM

Now John that's simply not true, truly entertaining match.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 02:22 PM

Ahhh... excuse me? Balking is allowed on a penalty kick? Seems like cheating to me.

Speaking of cheating, if my "buddy" ran up and appealed to the ref that I had purposefully stomped someone in the nuts when I was off balance (I watched it a half dozen times in slo-mo and at regular speed - no way that was on purpose) I might have done what Rooney did. And, I might have gone a bit further if I had known a wee shove would get me ejected.

I might be completely wrong... probably am.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 02:30 PM

The future looks bleak for England, as this was almost cetainly the last time in my lifetime, that they could send a squad, which had a realistic chance of winning the competition. I don't know why, and no doubt they don't either, but they never found any rhythm and they never dominated a single game - not even against Trinidad and Tobago. They were completely outplayed by a Portugal side, which was considerably weakened by suspensions and injuries.               
England's outstanding players were all playing in their last World Cup - Beckham, Campbell, Owen, Gerrard and Lampard. There is no one of comparable quality coming through, although it is of small comfort that England's best performances generally came from their youngest players.
The cretinous decision to appoint an English coach to replace Sven Goran Eriksson will be rued for generations. Only the chiefs of the FA are stupid enough to believe that a team can win the World Cup by playing First Division football. England did not participate in the World Cup finals between 1970 and 1982. I can see a similar disaster looming.
In Germany, most people are delighted to see the back of this England side, who contributed so little to the competition. It is a day of rejoicing for those who dislike England and their satisfaction will be complete in view of the ignominious end of yet another poor challenge.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 02:30 PM

A pathetic World Cup emphasized by another truly awful game, England`s displays have been boring all of there games were devoid of good football.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 02:31 PM

You always have the pundits on English TV going on about how it's impossible to prepare for a penalty shootout. Ignoring the fact that the last time anyone in the German side missed a penalty in a major championship was in 1976.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 02:36 PM

You always have the pundits on English TV going on about how it's impossible to prepare for a penalty shootout.

If you do not like this - you could always just piss off and watch Irish TV.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 02:47 PM

When oh when are English players going to be taught how to make killing passes in the last half of the pitch. It is woeful.
Yes they tried hard, but it just wasn't good enough.

As for Rooney, he deserved to be sent off. Absolutely disgraceful. He is a truly gifted player, but needs to learn how to control his frustration.

I personnally think that Sven should not have given him that role. His frustration got the better of him. Crouch (who I do not like) was far more effective up front on his own.

Having fought for so long with 10 men, I never ever thought that penalties was in England's best interest.

At the end of the day Sven did no worse than most England managers. Are we ever going to get the message that we are a top 8 side buit not much better.

Watching this Scottish (John McEnroe whinger style gobby) play some wonderful tennis against Roddick at Wimbledon - 2 sets up - 1 all in third set. Have us English got to support a Scot LOL :-)

Come on Murray :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 02:47 PM

Raw nerve struck !

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 02:52 PM

Come on Murray. He is British isn't he :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 02:59 PM

The writing was on the wall before they set out for the World Cup, what team other than England would have stated that they would win the World Cup after losing to Northern Ireland, enough said.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 03:00 PM

Wouldn't like to be in Ronaldo's shoes when he gets back to training at Old Trafford. He may find that Rooney could well be the thug he cracked him up to be:-)

Shame - Regardless of what the dissenters say - Best gane England had played in a long time. Pity it had to go to Penalties. I reckon seeing as England always seem to fare well on 10 men the next manager should take advantage of it. Put on a real bruiser. "Now then {inset name here} get yourself sent off by taking out the knees of their best striker"...;-)

Well done lads. Shame you buggered up my Germany 4-2 England in extra time prediction! At least we will see Portugal get wiped out on Wednesday.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 03:12 PM

Murray is a Scot and made his views about England very clear !

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 03:27 PM

Its not fair. You're all saying nasty things about our gallant lads. One had a poorly foot. The foreigners were absolutely frightful as usual - pretending to be hurt when they got kicked in the goolies, eating garlic and winning penalty shoot outs.

if there was any justice, they would award us a world cup for being decent chaps, and admit that they cheated.

I think I'll drink a warm beer, and watch One of Our Aircraft is Missing to calm down.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 03:28 PM

Didn't Murray do well.

Us English will support him, unlike Scots who don't support England :-)

Lived up in Scotland long enough to know how the Scots feel about the English. Like nicking their oil, beef, jobs etc.

The Scots are a nice lot really and I thoroughly enjoyed my 3 years in Scotland. Met a lot of nice people up there.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: harpmaker
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 03:38 PM

...them stupid cheap flags that are on cars/vans/houses..everywhere, can now at last be taken down.
....if I was you lot that bought them...I would ask for my money back.
Bahh-humbug.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 03:41 PM

Best idea is to go and buy them flags etc for a knock down price and sell them in four years time at a massive markup

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Tootler
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 04:58 PM

England are out and quite deservedly so. They really should have gone earlier.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 05:06 PM

At last a fine game from France and Brazil, the French were deserving winners, Zidane was superb, and the French defence was rock solid, and an all European last four, who would have forecast that.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 05:17 PM

I think I will go and buy some of the half price Italy shirts. Any orders?

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 05:58 PM

German French final with Germany winning 2-1

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 06:01 PM

All much more exciting than the Olympic Games anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 06:21 PM

Oh fuck, I've lost a very long post by wrong keying. So in a nutshell:

I've seen two good games today.
Zidane the best Brazilian by far (somehow he played with the wrong jersey).
Very deserved win for the French.
Hargreaves deservedly player of the match.
England as good as Portugal even with 10 (an exciting 0:0).
England has now joined Italy with three lost penalty shootouts.
The only English player scoring has German genes (not that I would believe in that; I believe in practise).
Why didn't he opt for Germany when he had the choice (he would be an improvement on Schweinsteiger?

I confidently predict that the semi finals will be Agentina v Italy and England v Brazil. (Shambles)
Not quite as good as throwing a coin, but better than all wrong.

Italy beats France in the final.
Germany beats Portugal for third place.
How do I know this? Well, Klose will likely be top scorer and most often the top scorer has come from the third place team.

Wolfgang (hoping to be nearly as good as a coin throw)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 06:23 PM

Interesting discussion about practise and luck in penalty shootouts in this old thread (from 2002)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Escamillo
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 06:28 PM

A World Cup of surprises, eh? Argentina defeated, Brazil defeated, England defeated, Portugal candidate to championship, our team horribly managed at the last moments (Coach called CRUZ who did nothing and was known to be able of nothing, CAMBIASSO who was too nervous, and reserved the briliant MESSI for a hypothetical semifinal or some misterious reason). Ok, matches of this importance should not end in a penalty series, they should be continued in another match.

99% Argentinians' symphaties now go to Portugal, for their first championship.

Wolfgang, I owe you a virtual beer and my congratulations.
Un abrazo - Andrés in Buenos Aires

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: michaelr
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 12:13 AM

I'm not slagging here, but I haven't seen anything in this tournament to support the much-touted Beckham's rep as one of the world's best players. And Rooney - please, grow up and then come back to play with men.

Brazil are a disappointment, as well. Not anywhere near their previous form.

I am impressed with France, and Argentina deserved a better outcome. And while I think it silly to try to predict the outcomes of games, I feel that Germany-France may be a likely final match.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 03:00 AM

I confidently predict that all of my confident predictions from now on - will be wrong. France 0 Portugal 7.

France v Brazil was a breath of fresh air and almost managed to lift me from my gloom. Credit to Brazil (and their current manager) for letting France play and to France for taking the opportunity to do it.

I am afraid that very little credit is due to Portugal. They were shown (in their last two games) to be poor side with a manager who encouraged his players that the way to win was to cheat and try and get the opposition sent off. The sad thing is that Scolari so nearly was England's next manager.

The greatest irony is that even by the use of these tactics when they had managed to get only a marginally better England side reduced to 10 men - they still could not win and Ronaldo, the scorer of the last penalty, could have taught Jacque Cousteu how to dive. Ronaldo was a disgrace and should have been sent off long before the Rooney incident and the shoot-out.

If I were living in Portugal and they were kind enough to let me stay there, I am sure that the TV pundits there would have a different view and will see Ronaldo as a hero. TV coverage does tend to be biased towards the home sides. This is a rather obvious fact. And rather than complain about this - I could always move back to my home country where I could expect the TV coverage to reflect my own bias.   

England's players have shown that they are a good Quarter final team. Most of us thought this side was better than that - but the fact that must be faced is that those who thought this - were proved wrong. It would be nice to say that England lost to a better side (as is usually the case) but sadly I do not think that to be the case this time.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 03:31 AM

I don't think you can blame Potugal for getting Rooney sent off. He did that himself. He deliberately tried to damage that guys knackers and right in front of the referee. Dumb or not dumb.
I am a staunch England fan and am unhappy that they are not through to the last 4.
We lost becuase we were not good enough. Why oh why do so many people have to use sour grapes to excuse the poor performance of England. Stop blaming the opposition and look deeper at the reasons why England were incapable of producing entertaining football with what looks like an excellent team on paper, but as usual, unable to do it on the park.
IMHO, Rooney lost the match for England with his childish reaction. As somebody said above, he needs to grow up and use his talents to win games. He just can't be trusted to do the job for us.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Cathie
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 03:46 AM

How does an old woman like me instill in 8 - 10 year old boys that it is not OK to kick out at others when things aren't going their way on the football pitch, when their heroes do just that?

I can't wait to hear all the excuses that they will have been fed to justify his and ultimately their behaviour.

And if your child had been hospitalised with a broken nose? What would be your reaction?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 04:06 AM

Catherine, the simple answer is there is no excuse at all. No one here is defending what Wayne Rooney did. He was rightly sent off and FIFA should also ban him for several more matches.
This was probably the most talented England squad of players we have ever had. It just never all came together. When Wayne Rooney's foot healed quicker than expected, many of us were optimistic that England would play with two world class strikers for the first time in our history. We overlooked the fact that Michael Owen was not fully recovered. That was probably a factor in his new injury, which will certainly take some of his speed and effectively spells the end of his time as a top quality international striker. Peter Crouch gave everything he had. It was never going to be enough at this level.
It is quickly forgotten that in England's case, the penalty shoot outs have always delivered the correct result. Portugal certainly deserved to win last night. They were able to carry out their game plan from start to finish. (If England had one, it was to hide in their own half or to boot the ball into touch as often as possible). They also forced England to play nearly the entire game in their own half. England were good on heroics but were found lacking in confidence, imagination and stamina. That was the same story in all the other heroic failures. Perhaps what England need is a sound thrashing to teach us never to try and play like that again. The penalty shoot outs have always left us room to claim we were unlucky. Truth is, in all of these matches the opposition were very unlucky not to win well in ordinary time. We were beaten by Portugal's reserves last night - and they deserved to win.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 04:27 AM

Hey! Now all you football fans can take the "I am a moron" flags off your cars, shut up about f...ing football and give us all some peace!

I know that this is a bit of a difficult concept for you lot to grasp but all the silly flags, air horns, getting drunk and shouting at each other (usually in the middle of the night, in my part of the world) didn't help the 11 grossly overpaid and overhyped prima donnas win, did it?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 04:39 AM

no, but all these things were aids to my personal development.

and take my word for it, we are all better people.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 04:42 AM

No, but it does seem to be helping the home team.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 05:21 AM

The formations chosen by the England manager were largely irelevant. As good (or great) players with the will and belief to win, should always be able to lift their performance above any such imposed limitations.

But apart from those forced by injury - the strange formations were chosen largely to try to accomodate what the press told us were two of England's world class players. And had any manager left out Lampard or Gerard (and to a lesser extent Beckham) the press would have howled.

Lampard looked knackered and Gerrard looked nothing like world class. The fact that they were both thought too good to replace - does tend to suggest where the main problem lies. An unfit Beckham at least made a contribution but the England midfield (even with the fine efforts of the much criticised Hargreaves) did not work.   

It seemed that it was either Carrick or Hargreaves - who both played well when they had the chance, but the thought of replacing Lampard and Gerard with them both was not an option. Whatever the formation - the team selected to play should be made from the best players who are playing well and doing what is asked of them. A description that could not be applied to either Lampard or Gerard, who perhaps should not have been selected until this description did fit?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 06:12 AM

Oh come on Shambles. Owen, beckham, rooney...it was more like a bus trip to Lourdes.

They were every bit as bad as their worse critics were saying.

The players who impressed me were joe Cole and Lennon.

I simply refuse to believe that there was any necessity or advantage in taking players who should have been convalescing. It wasn't fair to all the English supporters or come to that, caring enough about the players, as people.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 06:40 AM

See Beckham has decided to step down as England captain. 120 England fans arrested in Gelsenkirchen. More England fans arrested in Jersey as they attacked Portugese owned businesses and shops. Ten per cent of Jersey's population is Portuguese. It's the second time in the island's history riot police were employed, and the second time the Island was invaded !

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 06:42 AM

I am not aware that any of you have seen the UK papers this morning some of them are blaming the Argentina referee for sending Rooney off, while others are advising Ronaldo to get out of Man Utd. Have a look at some of the one-eyed letters on Teletex again accusing the referee of bias against England. Rooney for all of his talent is a thug and nothing will remove that from his system,unless he encounters the odd Argentine referee.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 06:59 AM

They were every bit as bad as their worse critics were saying.

No they were still good enough to get as far as they have and all the players deserve credit for that. And not (generally) resorting to the play acting tactics used by many other teams like Portugal.

The sides who reach this level are all well matched. It is only the sides who can and who dare to show that little bit extra who will go on to win. Engalnd's players could not do this.

But I am not making any unrealistic claims for the England team. It is those in the press and who are now their worse critics - who having been making these claims.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 07:09 AM

Whoever said it was not Ronaldo that got Rooney sent off needs to look at the incident again. Rooney was definitely Yellow card fodder - No doubt. But remember Ronaldo came running over to the ref shouting and waving his arms about. And did you see the sly wink immediatley after? Ronaldo knows Rooney very well and knew exactly what buttons to press to get him going.

He should indeed have had more self control but Rooney, on seeing a 'team mate' who had already had been goading him, pushing even further, did what most of us would have done. Pushed back - much in the same way he must have done hundreds of times in training. My bet is that the ref was going to yellow him but on seeing the blatant push - another yellow - gave him the red.

As I said before I would be very surprised if we see Ronaldo playing at Old Trafford for much longer. Either he or Rooney will have to go. And I don't think Alex Ferguson would be daft enough to ingnore the England fans.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 07:25 AM

well a point of view, like i say, i know sod all. I have the feeling however that on various occasions I've seen those players play better.

there has to be an explanation for that, when the expectations of the nation were raised so high, somehow nothing worked.

Sending a quarter of the team injured was (I think) unforgiveable. there is simply no shortage of footballers in England - and good ones at that.

i don't think I have any insight as to why it was so terrible. But I didn't think it was , as you suggest a good team playing at full stretch. they seemed more like good players functioning badly. Some will say that just how they were made to look by better sides, but I never really felt thay faced great sides.

however i'm willing to stand corrected.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: captainbirdseye
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 07:35 AM

I have backed Portugal MY reasoning is that they have a good squad of players,but they have the best coach/manager,They are now through to the semi final and I think that their coach will be able by usingSPOILING tactics to shackle zidane physically, AND be able to tactically outwit the french.DickMiles

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Ally
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 07:42 AM

good old shrek.There was f... all wrong with his foot when he was sticking it into the portugal players Henry Halls !

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Ally
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 07:52 AM

Luiz Felipe Scolari has proven he is one of the finest managers in the game. History will record him up there with the late great Ally McLeod.

Scolari could have been the next manager of England if the English press had left him alone. The red tops are to blame.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: fat B****rd
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 07:56 AM

Good points Dave The Gnome. Superscally shouldn't have fouled but as Alan Shearer said he might "stick one on" slyboots Ronaldo back at Old Trafford.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Les from Hull
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 08:23 AM

Thoughts on England's (lack of) performance:

I agree with a lot of what has been said here. We needed a lot more effort from players like Gerrard and Lampard, who on the whole, were poor.

Owen Hargreaves played really well. I wondered why he'd been in the team on previous occasions, but this World Cup he played with skill and conviction.

Our defence on the whole performed exceptionally well (except against Sweden on set pieces).

Defeat in the quarterfinal can be laid at the door of that stupid tuber-headed scally. England never pressed hard enough to get the goal, and the players capable of scoring it were not playing well, or not playing at all (injured or left out of the team for a kid who was never going to play). Lampard's many unsuccessful attempts at goal will probably bring a new word or phrase into the Englash language ('he's having a Lampard' or 'I Lamparded it').

In the end we weren't good enough.

One compalint. FIFA promised us a clampdown on 'simulation', but that hasn't happened. The one referee who did try a tighter control of a game (the infamous Netherlands Portugal game) was lampooned by press, pundits and everyone else.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 08:51 AM

BTW - Anyone noticed a distinct similarity of features between Mr R, a chimp and GWB?

Wonder if he is an illegitimate offspring?

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Folkiedave
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 09:38 AM

The fact is when we look at our players the team as a whole was lesser than the sum of the parts. For this I can only blame the manager. The turnip was on a reputed £4,000,000. He made so many mistakes in the run-up to the quarter-final like not taking enough forwards; like taking unfit forwards; like taking Walcott; like not knowing his best formation.

Some things need structurally improving. When we arrange friendlies McClaren needs to tell managers who will not release players to get stuffed. We need to use friendlies as practise matches for the full team and not KEEP making substitutes for the sake of it.

We need to choose a team (built around Gerrard/Hargreaves perhaps, both of whom should probably be there next time) with a formation that suits, and stick to it through friendlies and through the European Championships. Cole, Rooney, Ferdinand, Terry are all young enough to be in the next World Cup team as well and ought to have improved by then. I cannot see Crouch in a team despite his good game yesterday. Hi is too easily played out of the game to my way of thinking.

We need to chose players who are the best for a team, not just the best players, as Ramsey did with Jack Charlton.

We need to stop making basic errors - like the goalie hitting long balls to a lone striker, like hitting "Hollywood" passes to well-marked wingers. We need to know how to keep the ball and play through midfield. These players (Lampard, Gerrard, Hargreaves) do it for their clubs.

We need to watch videos of the Italians defending and learn from them.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 12:53 PM

I agree with everything you say except about learning from the Italians Dave. In most of the big games over the past few years, England have gone ahead early and then tried to defend the lead. We should be seeing a more confident England taking the ball into the opposing half and keeping it there until the goals come. Heroic defence is all well and good when one is forced back into one's own half. With the power available to England at the moment, this ought not really to be happening very often.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 02:29 PM

Literate and polite in equal measure I see..

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 03:04 PM

i'M SO GLAD THAT THIS BUNCH OF OVERPAID UNDER TALENTED WANKERS ARE OUT!!!

Is that a reference to Brazil, Spain, Agentina, etc? All of whom were not good enough to progress beyond the quarter finals.

i don't think I have any insight as to why it was so terrible. But I didn't think it was , as you suggest a good team playing at full stretch. they seemed more like good players functioning badly. Some will say that just how they were made to look by better sides, but I never really felt thay faced great sides.

I agree that England did not face great sides and they never looked as if they were going to be able to beat any. But perhaps their exit is easier for England fans to accept than it is for those of Agentina, Spain, Brazil etc - who did look as if they were going all the way?

England and Argentina - unlike the others who have gone out can at least claim to be unbeaten. But however you judge the quality of the opposition at this level - you have to accept that no team - however limited - are ever going to make it easy for the other team to win (with the exception perhaps of Sweden).

The fact that England appeared to look like good players functioning badly - could be due to unrealistic expectations. I suggest this is more likely to be the case, as the effort from the players was certainly there. England showed they were good players - but they were playing equally good players.

The fact is that England, like Brazil and Spain (this time) were simply lacking that extra something required to progress - the edge that makes the difference. Perhaps it is just as simple as not having the required good luck - with injuries and form?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 03:08 PM

Never saw TheBigPinkLad as quiet.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 03:24 PM

Owen Hargreaves played really well. I wondered why he'd been in the team on previous occasions, but this World Cup he played with .

I think the question was not why he had been in the team before but why he was ever excluded from it.

For it tends to be forgotten that up to and during the European Championship finals - he was a regular first choice team member and playing with skill and conviction, until he was injured early on. After that - for some reason - he was thought only good enough for bit parts, mainly playing out of position and as a result, not getting very good write ups.

I suppose international managers have many problems that club ones do not. The first option is to always choose the best and in form players in their favoured position or to attempt to build a team (and team spirit) from players who get on and who can adapt.

The second option is the best one for teams with fewer players to choose from. England's problem is always that it has enough players to provide at least two equally talented sides but now seems unable to produce the one great one.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: captainbirdseye
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 04:10 PM

Iam pleased england were defeated,if they had won the world cup everybody would have been saying they were as good as the 1966 team,the      current manager was inept overpaid and incompetent.the 1966 England team had a manager that knew what he was doing and a side that was better at keeping possession of the ball,plus Gordon Banks,at that time the best goalkeeper in theworld.If England had won the 2006 world cup,it would have been a travesty,as they havent learned how to pass accurately, consistently, and how to keep possession of the ball.CaptainBirdseye

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 07:59 PM

The St Georg's Cross flags all looking a bit sad today, though there are still a lot around. Next door, I noticed, they'd taken their's down, and had it hanging on the washing line instead, all washed and clean. I suppose in a way that's a kind of gesture of defiant hope - move on and get ready for the next time.

I gather from my son whom watched the match in a local sporty pub that he had to to get out sharpish at the end because things went a bit crazy - the telly got wrecked and the furniture was flying and all. That's the down side of them making such efforts to ensure the nutter fans didn't make it to Germany - they stayed home instead...

I'd have liked to see how the England team would have managed against the French though. On the evidence of Saturday's matches, not too well. Anyway, Allez les Bleus!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 01:08 AM

Wouldn't it be nice, if all the english newspapers, instead of spending the next few weeks discussing the pros and cons of Englands efforts, just put a boycott on all talk of the England Football Team.

It would be so nice to move on and read about other things in sport.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 02:02 AM

the 1966 England team had a manager that knew what he was doing and a side that was better at keeping possession of the ball,plus Gordon Banks,at that time the best goalkeeper in theworld

I don't disagree with the point being made but perhaps comparisions should always be made for all teams. For example, compare the 2006 Portugal hero with the 1966 one.

Portugal's great Eusabio was not only universally admired for his wonderful skills and goalscoring but probably just as much for the fine example of sportsmanship that he always demonstrated.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 02:45 AM

Christiano Ronaldo is a sly little winker...............

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 02:49 AM

well not really Villan.

as I've said before, I don't know much about football, but I can see it means a lot to an awful lot of people. and I think theres a feeling abroad in the land that the country wasn't represented the way it would have liked to have been.

If they'd played well and given a respectable display and then got beat, fair enough. But I suspect it didn't feel much like that to the average England fan. Strange stuff was going on. Think for example, about all those shots at goal by Lampard - what WAS all that about?

Whether it was at player level, manager level, club level.... I don't know. But I can't think of a better time to hold the debate.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 04:20 AM

Well Al, you won't find a more staunch England supporter, but am sick and tired of all the media publicity.
We lost, we didn't play particularly well, we expect so much, but hey lets move on.
People can debate it till the cows come home, but it ain't going to change the result or put right anything that was wrong.
Its over done and dusted, put it in the drawer till the next time we think we can beat the world, with a team on paper that looks great, but fails to fulfil.

Its time to enjoy Wimbledon, Twenty/20, and dare I say it, watch the remaining four best teams scrap it out to see who will be the worlds best country team. I think France will win.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 05:19 AM

Maybe you're right. I still believe the Germans have got it right, they consistently get people to underestimate them.

Which considering their record, has got to be something they work on.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 05:44 AM

We lost, we didn't play particularly well, we expect so much, but hey lets move on.

England did not play well - their supporters do expect so much (if only the same as any other supporters do) and should indeed move on - but the England team did not lose.

Despite a midfield that could not support either the attack or the defence very well - England remained unbeaten, conceeded only two silly goals (that did not matter anyway) and even with a weakened attack, managed to score 5 goals. One of which was one of the best of the whole competition..........

And despite playing sides whose intention seemed to get England players issued with yellow and red cards - they finished low in the table of warnings issued. Not surprisingly, Portugal currently top this particular table. Let us hope that is the only one they will finish top of.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 05:44 AM

The St Georg's Cross flags all looking a bit sad today, though there are still a lot around

Thanks goodness some are still flying. How else can we identify bad drivers?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 06:16 AM

The table of cautions issued (so far).

http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/w/stats/detail.html?section=tdc

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 06:22 AM

Stop whinging shambles and get on with life (meant in a nice way :-)   )

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Sandeman
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 06:25 AM

England was really lucky to get to keep the goal by Crouch as he fouled the defender by leaaning on his shoulder and hair. Croutch should have got a yellow card and he would have then missed the next game so justice in the end won and England is out!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 06:35 AM

The German Police Chief said,
``It's been an extraordinarily positive contribution made to the tournament as a whole by English supporters,'' he said.

``The English fans said before the World Cup that they are the champions in partying,'' said Gerd Graus, spokesman of the organizing committee. ``They have proved that here.''

FIFA communications director Markus Siegler said: ``We can only commend the German authorities for the fantastic job they've been doing. In general, England fans are among the best in the world.''

Would Billy McKinley or his puppet master care to admit that they were wrong?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 08:48 AM

Despite what the British press are saying about Ronaldo his silky dribbling skills and pace provided a big hit with numerous moments of excitement throughout the World Cup. Why do so many act like children at blaming him. Rooney was the villian. Accept it, ENGLAND IS OUT OF THE WORLD CUP.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 10:09 AM

Some remarks about the German penalty shootout "luck"/ability:

Germany lost the European final (76?) on penalties and has not lost since. Why? Preparation and exercise.

Revisit the link I have posted to the 2002 discussion and Ard Mhacha's thought after a dismal Irish penalty performance about why it is not worth exercising penalites. That's the Irish approach we know from many rebel ballads: Blame ill fate, bad luck, traitors and never the own preparation. Go home beaten but proud and hope for the sons to prevail next time.

In Germany, it started with former national goalie Andy Köpke. His record was close to 50% penalty killing and in some seasons over 50%. He had (his own? or) access to a database about the penalty taking habits of all players in the German league (and beyond). He knew who was aiming each time at the same corner of the box. He knew who would change the corner after a miss and who would after a goal. He knew in which players the angle of running to the ball predicted the correct corner. It does not help each time, but to know the habits is better than a fifty-fifty guess. Do you know the present job of Köpke? He is the German goalie coach with the only task of preparing the goalies.

Have you seen Lehmann pulling a piece of paper out of his socks and reading it before the shootout? Was it his laundry list or the goalie's prayer in times of need? No, it was the goalie coach's predictions about the corner the Argentine players most probably would aim at and an advice whether standing still or moving about would make them less more nervous. Out of four times, Lehmann was four times correct in the choice of the side and three times could touch the ball. The rest, but only the rest, is luck and ability.

That's the preparation on the goalie's side. On the penalty takers' side, there are still teams (like England for instance, as we have read in the newspapers) who prepare for shootouts like for the normal penalties during the game. All players stand near the penalty point and whoever feels like takes a shot. As if the FA would not have the money to pay a psychologist. But rather I think that's the Ferguson approach: A loud voice is better than any psychologist.

The difference is, in the game there is a small pause between the foul and the penalty kick. So whoever feels strong enough grabs the ball may be good enough there. But in a shootout you are perhaps shooter number four, so it means you have wait for several minutes before it is your time, long enough to build up fear of failure. Think of climbing the 10m tower in the swimming pool for the first time with the intention to jump down. It is much easier to jump quickly without second thoughts than to wait for 6 minutes and jumping then after having seen some beautiful and some failed jumps. Your heart will beat faster after a 6 minutes wait when you finally marched to the end of the board.

The good penalty taking teams exercise the shootout in a different way. All players are in the middle circle and then slowly walk the long way to the point from the middle circle. Loudspeakers simulate the noise of a supporting or adversarial crowds. The shooter may not shoot when he feels like but only at a sign from the "referee". Refereee correcting the position of the ball (goalies attending their shoes) is introduced at irregular intervals. The idea is to make the exercise situation as similar as possible to the real thing so that the player already knows how loud his heartbeat can become on the long way from midfield to the point. Sometimes, fear of failure is introduced as well (could be money, but even better would be that he has to do something he dislikes like attending a press conference when he fails).

It has nothing or not much to do with luck but with a good realistic training and with preparation and knowledge. All other claims like the goalie's quick reaction or his stare or that he trusts his feeling are nonsense meant to fool the opponents. If all teams would prepare this way then it would become luck again that decides. Nearly one third of the games in which a shootout can decide are decided this way, so nobody should say they are very surprised when it comes to that.

Speaking about preparation, maybe in England this story is not so well known yet: In 1970, in Mexico, Germany had a very difficult quarter final to play. The opponent, England, did exclude all public, press, and officials from the last training. That makes sense, for in the last training often some standard situations like freekicks and corners are fine tuned. Only the Mexican soft drink vendors were allowed on the field. One of them, under his sombrero, had a darker skin than he normally had and gave the English players the coke only with a nod and a smile because he couldn't speak a word of Spanish. But he could speak English in addition to his native German. Whether this ruse actually has helped I don't know.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 10:35 AM

In 1954, a player did run 4 km within the 90 minutes, today they usually run 12 km. Who has to run where and when has been exercised thoroughly. The safety net to suppress any creative play in the midfield gets better every four years. Three out of the four teams in the semifinals have only one single attacker. These teams between them have allowed five goals against them in altogether fifteen games.

I think it is time to think seriously about restricting the number of players to give creativity more room.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 10:40 AM

What football? Have I missed something?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 11:23 AM

Germany lost the European final (76?) on penalties and has not lost since. Why? Preparation and exercise.

I do so hope that is tempting fate.

When players like Lineker and Shearer say that there is no way to prepare for that moment, I tend to accept the views of those who have stood in this position - with the weight and expectation of the whole nation on your shoulders.

Mock crowd noise, PA annoucements and playing to the whistle may be a little help with confidence in order to prepare for the real thing and goalkeeper's notes may reduce the odds od diving the wrong way, but there really is no getting around the fact that the outcome of penalty shoot outs will alway be down to luck. And that a toss of a coin would be a kinder way of deciding drawn games. I am sure the German team would practise their skills at tossing and prepare for that also.........And claim this influenced to outcome?

Yes you can always practice jumping off a burning ship into an icy ocean and make this as realistic as possible - but no one knows how pressure of the real thing will affect even the most experienced of sailors. The same is true of shoot outs and the most skilled of footballers. The list of great footballers who have muffed their shots and keepers who guess wrong is a long one.

However, confidence may be a factor. The German team can take confidence from their past record in tournaments- other teams cannot.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Swollen Bollocks
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 02:58 PM

All of you whinging English it was worth these swollen bollocks to help defeat the biggest parcel of weepers in world sport, it is really delightful to listen and read of the many excuses since poor old England was dumped out.

For the sake of my poor bollocks please go away somewehere and hide, the rest of Europe are delighted to see you go,and take Motson and all of the other white eyes with you, thanks Wayne as I now look down on the biggest pair of ball in Portugal.Caravhel

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 06:24 AM

Talking balls - whatever next?

It is no good - I am haunted by the thought of these Pavlovian trained German footballers, who when out in the street and hearing crowd noise and PA announcements - will immediately start kicking penalties into an imaginary goal.

In the same situation - English and Argentinian players will just go into into floods of tears.

My semi final predictions:

Italy to go through on penalties.
[Due to the crowd going silent, the PA breaking down, the referee having lost his whistle and having to give the signal to start with a flag]

Portugal having only managed to scrape together 8 players who are not suspended and having a further 5 sent off against France - also winning on penalties.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 06:59 AM

To bring a bit of music to thread. All credit (and blame:-) ) to my mate Rob who gave me this last night -

Where have all the car flags gone?
- Long ball passing
Where have all the car flags gone?
- Long time no goal
Where have all the car flags gone?
- Rags and dusters every one!
When will they ever learn?
- We're crap at penalties!

:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 07:27 AM

Perhaps some one could come up with a potion for winning penalty shoot outs?

It could be just water but would work on the placebo effect. If you have confidence that something is improving your performance and results - it probably will. I am not sure that the German approach to training for penalty shoot outs does improve their chances - but if they have confidence that it will - it may do.

Conversely - if you think your team will never win on penaties - they probably won't.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Jock McTavish
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 07:56 AM

Portugal, Portugal, port-u-gall, Portugal, Portugal,Portugal, etc, you all know the tune , it`s the one that is sung to one of Sousa`s marches, c`mon lets hear it from all of the whingers. Anyone see todays Sun, they are blaming Ronaldo for England`s humilation, remember the Swedish referee who sent Beckham off, he had to move from his home when one of the English rag papers published his home address.
The worlds worst losers once again live up their reputation, grow up you pack of weeping willies.
Over 60 million and not a sporting personality in the country, do you ever win at any sporting event, oh sorry, Darts [sometimes] and marbles.
It is really great fun, what a shambles.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 08:22 AM

I was just thinking of starting a thread about Scotland's recent achievements in the World Cup. Just thinking...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Les from Hull
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 08:32 AM

I think you'll find, 'Jock McTavish', that it's the population of the United Kingdom that is 60 million people, which of course includes those of the Scottish persuasion. Bit of a penalty miss, eh?

Well before the World Cup Finals I was suggesting for an England World Cup song 'Leaving on a Jetplane'.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 08:45 AM

They enjoy playing Curling, but I think we will give them the brush at that.

As for Murray, he was made into curry yesterday.

Tossing the Caber, is a good en. Big hairy men, wearing skirts and sticking this big piece of wood between their legs (falix symbol me thinks) and tossing. Is that where the exprseeion "you big tosser" comes from ?

Spin the bottle is another excellent past time. Did the Scots invent a singaround based on spinning the bottle.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 10:02 AM

Leave the scottish alone, they gave us Robert Louis Stevenson, Whisky and somewhere to keep all the midges.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 01:31 PM

On the subject of Wayne Rooney the 20 year old has some record, 44 yellow and 3 red cards,I hope they don`t take into account his disciplinary record or he might finish up in Wandsworth.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 01:54 PM

I once saw a suggestion that they should have the penalty shoot-out before the game instead of after. That way one would know that a draw during actual play would mean they'd won and the other side would know it'd mean they'd lost. It'd be interesting to see how it'd change the way they approched teh game.

But then again, when England is playing, that's more or less the situation anyway...And any team playing Germany.

I think Italy had better try to win during actual play tonight!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 02:37 PM

I think they'll win (clearly), but in the case Germany wins, at least one cannot say as one could last time that the teams Germany had to beat before the final were weak teams. Of the remaining teams Italy is the most difficult to beat for Germany (only Brazil would be harder to beat). That's a queation of styles. Germany could beat France but they couldn't do what the French have done: beat Brazil, even this year's Brazil.

Lineker and Shearer are dead wrong but perhaps they even knew it and only wanted to present a better sounding explanation than mere laziness. The variance of motor performance can be reduced in all sports by practise. Football is no exception to that rule.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 03:07 PM

Germany to loose on penalties.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 04:02 PM

Germany midfielder Torsten Frings will miss Tuesday's World Cup semi-final with Italy after being suspended by Fifa.

Frings was involved in the scuffle involving a number of players following Germany's quarter final win over Argentina last Friday.

Argentine duo Maxi Rodriguez and Leandro Cufre were both charged by Fifa for their involvement in the incident.

All German players were initially cleared by Fifa of any wrongdoing, but they have decided to act after Frings was caught on television aiming a blow at Argentina striker Julio Cruz.

Frings heard his case on Monday and the Werder Bremen midfielder pleaded not guilty to the charge.

However, Fifa have found Frings guilty of violent conduct and he will be forced to miss the clash with Italy.

Frings has been handed a two-game ban, but the second match is suspended meaning he would be available for the World Cup final should Germany overcome Italy.

The news is a blow for Germany boss Jurgen Klinsmann as Frings has been instrumental in helping Germany reach the semi-finals.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 05:29 PM

It didn't go to penalties.

A fine game.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 05:43 PM

Not only a fine game. Was this the same game as last Saturdays debacle? What a wonderful example of gamesmanship, passing, refereeing and everything! Just so good.

I am off tomorrow to buy one of Asda's half price Italian shirts:-)

Now, who remembers Stanley Accringtons opera from 24 years ago? The Penalty Aria?

"Italia have wonna the worlda cup,
for the books whatta turn up..."

The only other bits I can remember are
"With tackles oh so clinical and fouls oh so cynical"
and
"All apart from Schumaker, and he's a load of cobblers..."

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 07:17 PM

Bollocks, that's my prediction up the swannee.

Bollocks Ballacks Bollocks!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 08:06 PM

Good to see Germany losing well, and apparently being good losers. Some other teams and their supporters ought to try doing it that way as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 03:04 AM

The German team and their supporters and others (like the Republic of Ireland with fine examples of mature sportsmanship like Roy Keane) who did not even qualify for the finals - do get a lot of practice at losing. The Germans - especially to the Italians. Perhaps that is why their record against them is so bad - perhaps they did not expect to be able to win (except on penalities)?

Perhaps if they spent less time studying and practising for penaltly shoot outs and more time on trying to score goals and win matches - they may not get into so many shootouts, they may have beaten Italy last night and may still be in the competition they have so finely hosted?

Italy were the best team and won a good game, on reflection, rather easily and deserve to be in the final. I only hope that it is France who will face them.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 03:21 AM

Nothing should obscure the fact that the Germans did very well. They had no outstanding players apart from Ballack - and he did not look to be in top form. They took a group of reasonable players and they played together very well, doing much better than even their own supporters had expected. Germany has been and excellent host for this tournament and their team has got the whole country behind it. They lost to more talented footballers and there is no shame in that. For the Germans the party is over. It was one hell of a party though and it was a very inclusive one, with many people made very welcome from all over the world. The atmosphere has been really terrific.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST, Ami Guset
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 04:21 AM

Well boys what a fine game of football and didn`t those Italians look the part in all of their parts, hard luck Germany, but the better team won, was the wood on the posts ,made in Germany?.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 05:38 AM

But penalties are not as straightforward as some fans think. All the great players have missed in World Cups - Maradonna, Baggio and Platini. I always say the presidents of each of the football assosiations should take them because the responsibilty is so great.
Pele

The shoot out is either a test of team skill or it is a lottery - for it can't be both. It is the view of many participants that it is a lottery in practical terms as skill is affected too much by the pressure placed on individual team members.

But it is not a true 50/50 lottery. And where you have a side that thinks they have more than a 50/50 chance of winning on penalties (and possibly a past record that looks to support this) - the danger is that this team may be happy to play 90 minutes and extra time - with this in mind.

The second problem and possibly the most important one to me is that I like to look back and credit a player with some act of individual brilliance that wins the game - rather than what happens in a shoot out where someone will be blamed for losing it for their team. With some bitter irony - very often this is the player who has played the best in the game but has the bad luck to miss their penalty. All great TV drama I know but perhaps too hard on the indivdual player in a team game. And why then even bother with the game at all - why not just go straight to the penalty shoot out?

The fairest way to settle a drawn game is a replay. But that is not an option for big TV events like the World cup. The suggestion made here of playing the penalties first - will only make it more likely that the side which knows they will go through - will have no incentive to even try to win and will be content just not to lose.

Possibly a true lottery made before the game but which no one will know the outcome until the end of full and extra time - will at least ensure that each side has an equal chance of winning as they do of losing. Possibly a true lottery like this would result in there being less drawn big tournament games at full time?

Until those two fine last minute goals - if we are honest, most of us had already settled down and decided that last night's game was going to be decided on penalties. If the next two games are going to be settled on penalties - perhaps FIFA will seriously examine some alternatives? Hopefully they will anyway.

Perhaps the side who has committed the least fouls being awarded the game? Or possibly some other way of linking foul play with the result of drawn games - so that commiting fouls is discouraged and fair play is rewarded.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 05:55 AM

A panel of impartial(and anonymous for obvious reasons) judges to decide who should have won?

Multiple statistics - Possesion, shots at goal, foulds etc?

Extra time without the offside rule?

Carry on playing until someone scores?

Anything but the dreaded shootout!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 06:00 AM

I am going with Wolfgang on this one. Germany have won five out of six penalty shoot outs. England have lost five out of six penalty shoot outs. (By the way, had the games been decided on the balance of play, England's record would be one game worse!) However, Germany practice and simulate the experience in training as closely as they can. There seems to be a very British inhibition about practising for these things - perhaps because the players feel they look foolish.
Where the Shambles is right, is in pointing out that luck will never be eliminated from sport. That is not the point though. The aim of the sportsman is to increase the skill and all round competence so that luck plays a very small role. The Germans got further with a few good players than England did with a squad of gifted ones. It is time for a bit of humility on our part. If this is "luck", its consistent reappearance every two to four years is starting to look a little suspicious.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Barden of England
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 06:15 AM

The only way is the 'Golden Goal'. They who score first in extra time wins and if that upsets the networks - up theirs.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 06:21 AM

It is time for a bit of humility on our part. If this is "luck", its consistent reappearance every two to four years is starting to look a little suspicious.

Why humility?

Both England and Germany (and many others) are now out of the 2006 World Cup. The German team perhaps deserve a little credit for going out (before being beaten 2 - 0 by Italy) at the semi final stage rather than (unbeaten) at the quarter final stage on penalties, like England. But both of them are now out.

Neither side's play exactly set the tournament on fire and Germany had the advantage of playing on home soil - where they had won it before. As far as the England and German teams are concerned the difference is simply that one side performed better than expected and the other did worse than expected.

I suggest that it was just that these expectations were wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 06:32 AM

I prefer Golden Goal to penalties but what happens if there is no goal in the alloted extra time?

The fairest way to settle a drawn game is a replay.

It that always the case? In national competition, allowing for injuries and perhaps general fatigue over a seasion, could it not favour a wealthy club with sufficent resources to pretty well play 2 first teams? Whatever, I'd sooner see the result settled by the 11 (plus subs) players on the day.

Perhaps the side who has committed the least fouls being awarded the game?

How about instant disqualification for a team if one of thier players stomps on an opponent's nuts?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Paul Burke
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 06:55 AM

How about start extra time with 10 players a side, withdrawing a player every 5 minutes, until a goal is scored?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 07:48 AM

Drawing lots for which players should take the penalties, and in which order, would be another refinement.

And how about blindfolds for the penalty takers?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 08:06 AM

Blindfolds for the opposing goalie might just work, when England take their penalties.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 09:35 AM

Some referees already use blindfolds.

But what happened to the Golden Goal? It was introduced and seem to work to some extent so why was it scrapped?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Folkiedave
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 10:07 AM

I was a bit sad the Italians won in 120 minutes since I was hoping the Germans would go out on penalties.

I was a lecturer in sport studies and I set the students the problem of solving drawn games at Championship level like this.

The most imaginative answer was that the penalty shoot-out is taken before the game. Once it got to ninety minutes the team that won would be the winner if the result was a draw. The students believed there would not be many and it would encorurage forward play, though in fairnesss it was not much needed last night!!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 10:16 AM

The suggestion made here of playing the penalties first - will only make it more likely that the side which knows they will go through - will have no incentive to even try to win and will be content just not to lose.

I like the idea of taking players off one by one every 5 minutes(starting with the goalkeeper) until a goal is scored - or whoever is left standing dies of exhustion.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 04:07 PM

I think the following suggestion is not ideal but is better than the present rules. Where if we assume that the first 5 penalties have missed and we go on the sudden death - the team that has managed to keep 11 players will only be allowed as many shots as their opponents can manage. So the side that has players dismissed for foul play is currently favoured by the opponent's extra player being unable to take a penalty.................

How about at the end of Extra Time all players still on the pitch will all have to take a penalty including the keepers?

So that if at the end one team has had a player sent off , one team will have 10 shots and the other 11. In addition players with yellow cards in that specific game will not be allowed a shot.

My reservation to this is still the same. A side that knows in advance they will go through by obtaining a draw - may tend to play for this rather than going all out for the win. It is that we need to find a way to cut out.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 05:42 PM

Any truth in the rumour that the Portuguese team are being entered in the next Olympic diving contest?

Good on yer France. Realy looking forward to Sundays final now.

Anyone think any action will be taken against Scolari? He should be banned from the line for Saturdays match at least for that display tonight.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 05:55 PM

be interesting to see if the the Portuguese can be arsed to carry on with the amateur dramatics for third place.....

might be decent game, if they just play football.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 05:59 PM

Or of course you could just have the goalies taking penalties against each other.
.........
First you complaints because old Sven didn't get visibly excited, and then Scolari gets it for being excited. Maybe people would like to see etiquette classes for managers so they could learn to get just excited enough, but not too much.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 06:02 PM

Or of course you could just have the goalies taking penalties against each other.
.........
First you get complaints because old Sven didn't get visibly excited, and then Scolari gets it for being excited. Maybe people would like to see etiquette classes for managers so they could learn to get just excited enough, but not too much.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 06:26 PM

There is some consolation from tonight's result in that cheats do not prosper. But as has been suggested, had Portugal played football - they possibly would already be in their first World Cup final.

The booing that accompanied Ronaldo every time he touched the ball - is nothing to what he is soon going to hear from a home crowd. But when he was not diving to the ground - this booing only seemed to make him play better.

The thing with Ronaldo - is like Rooney - he is a young man and liable to do silly things and can be excused for them. But the general play of his team against Holland, England and now France and his wink to his manager seemed to indicate a level of pre-planning to get his team mate into trouble that brings his conduct to a different level.

Big Phil has now lost his first game since losing to Greece. I hope that it is the last game that he manages this Portugal team - who deserve better.   

Italy looked a lot fresher after playing extra time than France did and the end of this 90 minutes. It would suggest that Italy will be the next World Champions.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Folkiedave
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 06:35 PM

Cheats don't prosper??

Henry - Puyol? Went to ground clutching his face when it was clear his face had not been touched.

Crouch and dreadlock pulling = goal.

Cole and diving? Managed to get a couple of players booked.

Frankly I believe they are all at it. I just wish they would play football and concentrate on that.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Brakn
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 07:03 PM

Now I've seen it again.........Was that really a penalty?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Folkiedave
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 07:30 PM

It looked to me as if Carvalho's leg was going there whatever happened and Henry (who lets face it cannot see a trailing leg without diving over it) did just that - with a whoop and a holler just to make sure the ref noticed.

But I never have liked Henry since he whinged and moaned after the Champion's League Final complaining that Puyol was fouling him constantly. Fouls that were only noticed by Arsene Whinger and Henry and totally missed by the 24 cameras, 80,000 people and the referee that were also at the game.

Visca Barca and Sheffield United

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Arnie
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 11:08 AM

Let's face it, no-one apart from the Portuguese wanted that team in the final. They are real masters of diving, whingeing and trying to influence the ref. Ronaldo will be persona non grata at Man U and will no doubt disappear off to Spain. Scolari is a real disgrace and I'm glad that 'Big Phil' didn't get the England job in the end.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Folkiedave
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 07:04 PM

Whereas Peter Crouch holding on to someone's hair to score a goal is legitimate tactics?

Joe Cole's dives are somehow qualitatively different to Ronaldo's, even though they resulted in two bookings for innocent players??

I actually believe they are mostly at some form of cheating or other whenever they can. The Italian dive over the Australian's trailing leg in the last second, a l'Henry. Stop pussyfooting about and give any diver a red card.

Any Italian or French footballer who goes down in the penalty area in the last five minutes (assuming a drawn game Sunday on 85 minutes) - immediate red card.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 04:32 AM

I see Folkdavie agrees with me about Joe Cole, he can dive with the best of them, and Ronaldo will be lucky if he dosen`t receive the poision pen letters that were sent to the Swedish referee after he sent Becham off in the previous World Cup. the booing will only be a secondary measure, much nicer than receiving death threats.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 04:44 AM

I believe footballers are gifted actors.

if I were Rooney I would surely get even with C.Ronaldo when he gets to London.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 06:04 AM

Did you hear that a boxing promotor from Cheshire has offered a large purse for Rooney and Ronaldo to settle their differences in the ring? Honest! Ity was on the radio this morning. Could be interesting:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 06:44 AM

Just heard Saddam Hussein has been found guilty, and will be executed by firing squad, he has also been granted leave to choose the firing squad.

He has nominated Gerrard, Lampard and Carragher,












From 12 yards.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 06:55 AM

Joe Cole's dives are somehow qualitatively different to Ronaldo's, even though they resulted in two bookings for innocent players??

Yes.

We saw in in Ronaldo's constant attempts in all the games he played, to get his fellow players cautioned or sent off - only the worst culprit in a team where the manager actively encouraged this - in a win at all cost mentality. Which I am glad to say - did not work.

Joe Cole's inability to stay on his feet my be encouraged by his current (Portugese) club manager but he was was not representitive of the England team approach in this World Cup.

As he plays for the national side that I support, I am probably more upset with Joe Cole's individual conduct in this respect and am not offering any excuse for this. I hope he will learn from this tournament that cheats do not prosper.

My criticism of Portugal's tactics started long before their game with England. This current England side were not good enough to go any further and did not go out because of Ronaldo's conduct in that game. He should not be made a scapegoat for England's performance in and exit from the tournament - but he must take responsibility for his un-sporting actions - which are not excused by similar actions by other players or instruction from managers.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 07:00 AM

I was trying to find a joke about some members of the current Scottish team - but I did not know the names of any?

Perhaps it is the Scottish team itself that is the best joke?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 07:39 AM

There seems to be a suggestion that a player who has been tripped or pushed ought to stay up, if at all humanly possible, and that if they go down that's cheating. The point is that those actions - pushing an tripping - mess up what the players was trying to do, and that is where the cheating lies.

It's better for a player who has been fouled to go down than to overdo the efforts to stay up like Rooney did, and risk causing serious injury to another player by stomping all over them in the process.

The term "diving" should be restricted to the situation where a player trips themselves up, or decides to fall over, when there has been no illegal contact, and then pretends that they have been fouled. That of course is cheating, as is the case where a player feigns injury to make matters appear more serious than they actually are.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 08:01 AM

FIFA refers to the offence as 'simulation'. If their move was to cut this offence out of this tournament - they will have to think again.

I think that the PTB should concentrate on measures that actually prevent fouls from being committed and where players who do struggle to stay on their feet are encouraged to do this and are rewarded.

The present use of cards gives permission for foul play and just concentrates on the punishment of those individuals unlucky enough to have their foul play recognised in what is really a lottery. The result of which is that players like France's Louis Saha will now miss now the chance of appearing in the the biggest game of his career - for just being unlucky....

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 09:12 AM

I am beginning to wonder the purpose of those 24 cameras in every stadium at the world cup. Because certain incidents can be quickly explained to the referee to take good decisions, Figo head-butted a Dutch player and all he got was a yellow card. Rooney was struggling with 3 players over the ball,it could be said that he was also fouled but then he was surrounded by the opposing team, so anything negative he did could be so amplifying. Am still trying to figure out why the referee couldn't sympathise with young man.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 10:33 AM

Am still trying to figure out why the referee couldn't sympathise with young man.

His reward for this lack of sympathy is to be awarded the final.

However, I think it less a lack of sympathy than poor refereeing. His failure to protect the player with the ball led to the whole incident flaring up.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 03:15 PM

I've seen Germany-Italy in the garden of an Italian pizzeria which was the perfect palce to watch it (I don't have a TV at my weekdays home). Mostly Germans, some tables filled with Italians, in between Dutch and English, a pizza and an Italian light white wine (and a Grappa after the finish). The crowd was to my taste: They did not look at the colour of the jersey befoe deciding whether to applaud a good action.

It was one of the best games I have seen. I have seen the two teams equally strong during normal time with a lot of chances for both. 1:1 or 2:2 at 90 minutes also could have been a possible result. But I've seen Italy grow stronger by the minute during the extra time. The German replacements were worse than those they did replace and all German players looked a bit tired in extra time. Italy even should have scored earlier during extra time and the last minute goal(s) made sure that the better of the two teams goes to the final.

BTW, the town was full of honking cars after the match and most of them were filled with Germans. That shows how most of us feel about this team.

The choice of Podolsky as "best young player" can be justified by the reason that the two who I consider being better, Ronaldo (Portugal) and Messi (Arg), didn't play often.

If Zizou will not be elected "best player" of this world cup it'll be a screaming injustice. I'm looking forward to see him play a last time.

I won't be able to see our B-team trying to beat Portugal. That'll be Kahn's last appearance in the national eleven. I never did like him as a person during all his career, but that has changed so radically during the last four weeks that I have hoped since last Tuesday that he'll play for third place instead of Lehmann. Well done, Klinsmann.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 04:13 PM

Lehmann`s about as nice as a pit full of vipers, his conduct in the English Premier league did not earn him many friends, he was the most unpopular player in the Premier.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 01:40 PM

Just before the final I'm undecided whom I want to win. If it's Italy I could boast that I told you so in my first post in this thread some weeks ago (and hope noone remembers my wrong prediction for Germany also in that first post), but deep in my heart I'm for France, not in general, but I'm fond of this particular French team.

Well, two strong defenses in the final. The only hope for a brilliant game is a quick goal for France. But no team has scored yet against Italy this time. The only goal against them was an own goal, a kind of unforced error.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 02:00 PM

This reminds me of the last time Italy won.

I did a sweep at the last sixteen stage and when all the tickets were gone - to much ammusment I was left with Italy. Along with the World Cup winner's prize - there was a prize for the team who scored the most goals. Italy up to that point were hopeless, had not scored a goal and only progressed because of other results.

When I ended winning both prizes - I was accused of fixing the draw.

Among my many predictions - after their poor start, I did advise not to write France off. But I think Italy do look to be the strongest all round team out of the two finalists.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Tirgra
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 04:45 PM

Catholics throughout the world unite and celebrate the fact that the World Cup now resides in Rome. Blessings from Ireland

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Ernest
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 04:47 PM

There seems to start a party outside... I am hearing fireworks

It is over!!!!!! Hurrraaahhhh!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 04:48 PM

I told you so some weeks ago - and (I would choke if I would not mention it): Italy did beat neither Argentine nor Brazil.

What a fucking end to a great career. I now hope he won't be elected best player of the world cup. Second player in the world to collect two red cards in his wolrl cup career.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Martin
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 04:52 PM

Thug, deserved to get sent off. Wonder will France cry for weeks like the British did ?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 05:06 PM

Why did ZZ blow his top?

That (and the fact that it was decided on penalties) has did put a dampener on what should have been great climax. A sorry end to a wonderful career.

It did not seem to be done in the 'heat of the moment'. It looked as if he had a lot of time to think about it - and think better of it - but he didn't. I would have liked to have remembered him by the penalty he scored and style in which he took it.

Well done Italy. ...and this time I didn't have them in the sweep.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 05:16 PM

well...in my view, Italy was not offside on that 2nd goal , and deserved the win anyway....

I understand that ZZ has done this before, once stepping on the back of a Saudi player....sad....

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 05:19 PM

Wonder will France cry for weeks like the British did ?

What, like the many weeks between Saturday 1st July and Sunday 9th July? Let me see, my maths isn't that good but it must be, what? Ahhh - Got it! Just over 1 week! Well done, Martin, you need to get a commentators job...

Anyway. Well done Italy. I think it was well deserved. Not too much on the final but over the cup they have been brilliant. As to Zidane. Well, what can anyone say? Weired. I thought he looked like an alien. Perhaps he has been taken over?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Martin
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 05:27 PM

Dave the crying will continue by the British for weeks, expect you knew what I meant.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Peter P.
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 05:31 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 03:04 AM

On reflection it would have been better if Ziddane had kept to his original plan to retire from international duty and not been pursuaded to return. His frustration in this game seemed to be that he was not able to influence the game as he once was. Whilst still being the best player on the pitch - great players like him are judged and judge themselves by the high standards they themselves have set.

I think when his headed attempt on goal was saved that he knew that he simply did not have the required pace and energy any more to whip that team into the required attacking force. I am sure that the Italian player concerned had done or said something to anger him and trigger this, but I suspect it was more the frustration with his own limitations that caused this strange outburst.

It seemed as if he really thought that by waiting until attention was elswhere - he could head-butt his protagonist and no one would notice..........In the World Cup final of course - if he really thought this - he was mistaken. A sad farewell to a great player.

The Zidane of old had a built-in radar or eyes in the back of his head and always knew where his team mates were and how to find them. He also knew where any tacklers were coming from and he always had the ability to move just out of reach. I will remember this player - rather than his shadow, which was sent off in this game.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 03:26 AM

Sad thing about it is throughout Europe on everyother street corner or patch of grass where young kids play football and chanted his name for the past few weeks.

Last night they witnessed their hero Zidane bury his head into another player.

Somewhere, some mother today will have to bring her child to an A&E department of a hospital to get stitches in her son's face, result of a head butt. He set no example to his young followers and fans. Thought a professional footballer of his rank would be advised how to deal with abuse from players and fans alike.

On reflection it was a poor World Cup with players of most nations spending more time prior to the tourement getting their dive right, than actual footballing skills.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 04:03 AM

I agree that Zidane was a wonderful footballer and also that he lit up chunks of this World Cup. Apart from the penalty though the game more or less passed him by in the first half. And I have seen a large number of his games for Real Madrid this season and he looked past his best, with just occasional flashes of brilliance.

At the same time though he clearly has a self-destruct button which he has pressed on a number of occasions in albeit a long career.

His track record includes headbutting - for which he was given a five match ban by UEFA.

Sent off twice in the World Cup - once against Saudia Arabia in 2002.

When playing for Juventus, sent off for violent conduct in 2000

Sent off for Real Madrid against Sevilla for slapping an opponents face in a cup match.

Sent off for Juve against Inter Milan.

BIt of a Roy Keane/Viera type really!!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 04:39 AM

Quick English lesson, Martin

Did = Past tense as in "will cry for weeks like the British did"

Will continue = Future tense as in "the crying will continue by the British for weeks"

The two are not interchangeable. I did know exactly what you meant. Both times;-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 04:40 AM

Oh, btw, the British did not have a team in the World cup did they?

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 05:02 AM

Your right Dave. Hargraves born in Canada, grow up in Germany

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 07:16 AM

that was a great headbutt. You don't figure out how to do them spontaneously. Obviously a well rehearsed party trick.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 07:49 AM

Why the chest ? Thought only goats did that. Any Glaswegian would be ashamed of him.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 08:18 AM

ZZZZZ, That was the standard of this World Cup, a boring spectacle, the final game didn`t enliven it any.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 08:22 AM

I wondered that myself, Divis. But then I figured it out. Watching replays will bear me out. As Zidane walked past Materazzi the Italian muttered "Help, I'm having a heart attack."

Zidane laughed, thinking it was a joke and said "Ho, ho. You Italians. Alaways joking."

As he gets 3 yards away Materazzi gasps "No, please, help me."

Zidane realises he is not joking and instantly administers an unusual but very effective CPR. Materazzi collapses with lack of blood to the brain and cannot speak for several minutes. In which time Zidane is sent off. By the time Materazzi realises what has happened it is all to late. Besides, he cannot now show dissent to the ref.

See? Easy...

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 08:31 AM

I take AM's point. I can't actually think of one match, where everybody said, well that was a classic....

All my football expert friends(people who watch football all the time, to the exclusion of everything else) tell me that England were rubbish.

Alanabit said they were the best team we are likely to put together - like ever. If I were the sort of person who worried about football, I would be worried about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 08:57 AM

I'm not realy a footie fan but enjoy the big events like this so did get to see more than usual. Most games I saw were indeed very poor. I think Germany and Portugal on Saturday was an exception - I think even Ronaldo realised his diving tactics were not working:-) Saw a couple in the groups that were good. None of the knock outs were exceptional at all.

I think the elements of the England team were all there - with some very good players amongst them so I think Alanabit may be right. But it was potential that they had and at the end of the day I don't think that they were good enough as a team. I dunno what is needed but from a non-footballing Gnomes point of view management and practice semed to be lacking. Perhaps a officionado (No - he doesn't play for Portugal!) can tell us?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 09:29 AM

Thought I saw his lips go blue too Dave. They said he did it because Materazzi twisted his nipple as he walked past him. Tell you what from now on I am going to be more careful when that women serves me in the newsagent from now on.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 10:31 AM

I really do think these were the best English players who were ever sent to the World Cup Finals. When all is said and done, it is indeed a team game, so what others say about them failing to work as a team has to be right. I also agree with previous posters that no outstanding team emerged and that there were few outstanding games.
I was disappointed that England never found their rhythm and confidence. I had also hoped that for once they might have an unfair advantage. Had the weather been like last year's, there may have been one or two wet pitches and the temperatures would have been more to their liking. It did not happen.
They actually looked better once they had lost the ball. For me, that hints at defensiveness. All the teams tended to pass the ball sideways rather than forwards. However, I would have liked England to take some risks and play offensively. They had extraordinary luck in that none of their first choice defenders or midfielders were ruled out by injury. That has never happened before. They also took two World class strikers with them. It was in that department their luck ran out. They never had two first choice strikers fit at the same time. In view of the fact that only Brazil have a God given right to have two World class strikers at any one time, that is not really a good enough excuse. There can be little doubt though that they were forced to change their game plan several times.
At the end of the day, the Germans performed far better. Only their goalkeeper, I think, would have made it into the England side. That is the light at the end of the tunnel really. England can never hope to have that many exceptional players again at one time, but they can hope to function much better as a team. I think that when Steve McClaren is gone and we have a genuine international manager, who can show two fingers to the FA, we will have as much chance of putting out a decent team as anyone. It is a shame we failed so badly this time around though, because it was there for the taking.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Tim
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 10:47 AM

ZZ was provoked into retaliation.

I would more than headbutt any guy who carressed by left nipple.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 11:06 AM

The awkward thing about the World Cup is that it IS only every 4 years, and often requires teams to be patched together with players who don't play together every day.....then they play a few random games, with 'knockout' rounds at the end....and some of these decided by penalty kicks. Hardly a formula for deciding who is really 'best'.

Given a 4 month, round-robin tournament, with each team playing all of the others 3-4 times, and the final 8 playing for the last month, perhaps England would have won...or Brazil....or even Italy still. (And the US team 'might' have found a way to begin scoring..) But it is what it is, and a couple of slightly better bounces or balls that went IN the goal instead of off the bar---and the outcome would have been totally different.

What *I* would like to see is a tournament where all teams just try to be GOOD...with no diving, no intentional fouls and ...*horrors*...video REPLAYS to make sure about offside calls and fouls in really crucial situations. (perhaps 3 requests per game per team)....

silly of me, I know...but then I'm a dreamer who is not a life-long football fan and don't really appreciate the ubiquitous role of testosterone and National Pride uhhh...Tribal Bonding in all of this.

I saw some amazing talent and athleticism this last month, and also some tedious posturing and vicious thuggery...all in the name of the biggest 'sporting' event in the world.

What strange creatures we be.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 11:46 AM

Another world cup has ended.

Can't wait for the next one.

BTW,has anyone heard that Materazzi was saying behind Zidane's back this in Italian, black monkey raised by Islamic terrorists. others also said the two players were insulting themselves.

The game of football and its drama,can it get any better than this.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 11:58 AM

it makes little difference what was said...no one could hear, and it could have been settled later...but 2 Billion people could SEE the response...and that is what will be remembered.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 12:07 PM

Not a classic tournament and one that will be remembered (if at all) for all the wrong reasons. One only hopes for future events that FIFA will address what they can and leave the rest well alone.

Three 'teams' went out on penalties where the team had the players but were let down by its management. The worst example being Argentina. I would suspect some large ammounts of German money can only explain their manager's choice of substitutes which meant they did not win their game (and the World Cup).

England certainly had the players but perhaps the management team that was good enough to qualify was never going to be good enough to provide the inspiration needed win it?

France again had the players but not the management.


I feel Italy won because although they did not have the players of the quality that they usually send but had a management team that knew how to make the most of what they had.

There were teams like Brazil and Ghana that provided a lot of entertainment but these did not make it past the quarter final stages.

The home team found they had a manager who could certainly raise the performance of the players available to him to a level that surprised everyone (except possibly me) - but it should be recognised that (like England) this level was not enough to win against their quarter final opponents. But to their credit they can still score in penalty shoot outs - if you are still awake to see this.

The impression was of a number of good sides - but with no outstanding player or strategy emerging and a lot of refereeing problems remaining to be solved. FIFA's inability to deal with things like 'simulation' and their botched attempts - probably contributed a lot to the overall unsatisfactory impression of the 2006 event.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 12:19 PM

But I was just wondering aloud, to what extent can you control your behaviour in public. Is like trying to sneeze and you can't because you are in public. That is not to say that I was expecting that kind of reaction from a player of Zidane calibre but remember Figo almost did the same thing . Bill D, what do you say.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 12:32 PM

Somewhere, some mother today will have to bring her child to an A&E department of a hospital to get stitches in her son's face, result of a head butt

Not if the headbutter copies Zidane's headbutt-to-the-chest technique.

Crazy thing to do, but it did have a certain style. None of that limbs flailing rage of Rooney, or the embarrassing petulance of Beckham. Nor the flamboyance or Eric Cantona's sorties into the crowd to deal with a pest, for that matter. Precise, clinical, economical.

It appears the journalists voting for that Golden Ball award did so at half-time, before the red card incident. Just as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 12:37 PM

That is not to say that I was expecting that kind of reaction from a player of Zidane calibre but remember Figo almost did the same thing . Bill D, what do you say.

Figo got away with it (just a yellow card). And whilst there is a chance that players will get away with violent retaliation - they will often take that chance and feel they have little choice.....

But perhaps the answer is that these players should not be placed in this position and should be protected more from the the initial treatment that is now dished-out to them as a matter of course?

Italian defenders especially are skilled at winding-up attacking players. The nipple tweaking, pinching, pushing and spitting is seldom penalised. Verbally questioning a player's parentage and worse - all contribute to the frustration of creative players who feel they have to find other ways of getting even. Very often getting punished for this, when the original offence is not.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Quarcoo
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 12:38 PM

Sorry I logged out and used the back key. But the point I am trying to raise is that if someone can be punished instantly for foul play what about those who deliberately do the provoking. Human beings are not robots,so is not in all instances that you can respond rationally. Check out the look on Rooney's face as C.Ronaldo speaks to the referee(England vrs Portugal),you can see total disgust on the guy's face.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 01:14 PM

what do I say? Well, I say that if egregious violent reactions to provocation are 'natural', then penalties are the way we tell the offenders that they need to NOT be so natural.

Theoretically, 'games' are a place to put aside certain 'natural' reactions to stress & frustration. If the Italian provoked ZZ, he should be ashamed, but he WON by pushing buttons that ZZ was already well-known for....if that sort of thing can be called 'winning'. (It didn't really affect the game outcome, but it might have).

Children learn early how to tease others and get 'reactions', but someone in Zidane's position NEEDS to learn why it is better to make the teaser frustrated by NOT responding to his remarks. If Zidane felt it was that insulting, I'd shrug if he sought out Materazzi after the match and settled it privately....I dunno, mabe in that walk down the field, he decided "this IS my final match, I just don't care what the world sees!"....but he is 34, and that image will be with him forever and color whatever he attempts to do in the rest of his life.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 01:19 PM

Be da lard sweet sufferin Jaysus, b'ys. Good t'ing none a dees 'ere pussies ever laced up a skate an stepped on'a hoice wit' me an' buddies. I'll bet nare 'alf of 'em could play broomball wit'n maids.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 01:30 PM

The point is, "pushing buttons" - meaning racist and personal insults - is another form of cheating and should be recognised as such. How far it is possible to stamp it out by yellow cards and so forth is another mnatter - but it should be be stigmatised as dirty play, rather than shrugged off as something players targetted in that way need to accept.

It's not just in Football it happens of course - cricket is notorious for the kind of "sledging" that Australians pioneered, and it seems to be have become accepted practice, with no efforts to crack down on it.

Perhaps rather than just penalising the offending players what is needed is to throw the responsibility for controlling the behaviours of team members on to the coaches and managers and clubs, the way they do at times when it comes to racist chants by supporters.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 02:16 PM

Re "limbs flailing rage of Rooney"... IF that was in regard to pushing Renaldo, rather gently I might add, I agree that Rooney should have kept his composure, even when a fellow teammate, a friend, falsely accused him of doing something intentionally. However, I don't understand why Renaldo was not carded. Running up to a ref and yelling and gesturing that a ref has made a bad call is not a yellow? Sure as hell was in a number of other instances.

IF "limbs flailing rage of Rooney" was in reference to stepping on buddy's nuts, I have watched it in slo-mo a number of times. Off balance, falling forward, and trying to regain one's footing is hardly the time to orchestrate a kick in the nuts. IF I am incorrect and he ACTUALLY "DID IT", well, sign him up for a bonus, because anyone that talented deserves more money.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 04:01 PM

Perhaps rather than just penalising the offending players what is needed is to throw the responsibility for controlling the behaviours of team members on to the coaches and managers and clubs, the way they do at times when it comes to racist chants by supporters.

A way needs to be found of actually preventing all forms foul play. The current system of cards encourages it. For example.

Had the final shoot out not been settled on the first round of five penalties - all the rest would have had to take one in turn until one was missed. But although France were supposed to be penalised by being a man short for violent play - Italy would have only been allowed to use 10 players in the shoot out, to match the 10 that France had available...........

It hardly seems fair that the side which has managed the keep all their players on the pitch are disadvantaged in shoot outs because the other side couldn't manage to keep all of their players on.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 07:36 PM

Has there ever been a case where a penalty shoot-out has got to ten players in a team?
...............
If it's true that, as has been stated in various news items, what provoked Zidane into the headbutting was that Mazarotti had said that his mother, who had just been admitted to hospital seriously ill, was "an Algerian Whore", his action would seem quite understandable, even admirable. Some things are more important than football.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 07:58 PM

He head-butted the man. Should he have? Not my call. And, no one else's. It was his call. Overall, he is still a fine player and a fine man in my books, and, even moreso for not taking any shit, at any cost. Like McGrath said, "Some things are more important than football."

As for what children "see", where is this Garden of Eden anyway? Where the children are sheltered from reality. And taught not to stand up for themselves when they get into the real garden.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 09:50 PM

The headbutt over&over&over. We can wonder at the provocation, but that was HARD!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 03:05 AM

He head-butted the man. Should he have? Not my call. And, no one else's. It was his call. Overall, he is still a fine player and a fine man in my books, and, even moreso for not taking any shit, at any cost. Like McGrath said, "Some things are more important than football."

The intention of the insults etc, was to provoke a fellow footballer into retaliation action that would cause his effectivness to be limited. This cynical action was not prevented and the player was not protected from this provocation by the officials who finished off the job for the Italian player who was not penalised.

Whatever insults Zidane was subject to and not protected from - there was nothing preventing him from taking this up with Mataratzzi when the game had finished (and there were not so many witnesses). He would have been thought an even finer man by many more people had he been able to take this course. He wasn't and he decided to take the law in his own hands and when you do this - you place yourself squarely in the wrong by setting a poor example.

Whilst you are actually playing football (at this level) the only thing more important than football is to show respect to your fellow man. It is called sportsmanship and both parties failed in this and the officials failed in their duty to enable a fair sporting contest.

The win at all costs mentalty and the inability of FIFA to deal with this - has just about overshadowed all the other fine aspects of the game shown elsewhere in this World Cup. One hopes that the next big football event will be different..............

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 03:23 AM

Has there ever been a case where a penalty shoot-out has got to ten players in a team?

I can certainly remember a few here they went way beyond the first five.

But whether any have ever gone to 10 players in the past, is not really the point. As the current rules stand and if they are not changed - when it does come to this the side who have lost players for foul play, will not be at a disadvantage for the shoot out. Perhaps the rules should be changed so that they would be disadvantaged? And all the remaining players be able to take a penalty each (except for those on cautions)?

In theory this should encourage sides not to foul and to try and keep all of their players on the pitch. In practice such measures and the win at all costs mentalty - currently encourage teams to simulation and provocation in order to try and get the other side cautioned and sent off.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 05:06 AM

Well said.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 05:18 AM

Assuming one player has been sent off and it has gone to 10-10....

If a team had ten players and the other eleven all it would mean is that the team with ten would have a player take a second penalty earlier. In the interests of total fairness the numbers have to be equal.

The equality in the current system comes because the team with eleven players can "lose" the person they think is the worst penalty taker. The team with ten have to use theirs.

Fairest way is whenever a draw cannot tale place is to take the penalty shoot out before the kick off. Then if there is a draw, the result is plain for all to see.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 05:39 AM

If Zidane felt it was that insulting, I'd shrug if he sought out Materazzi after the match and settled it privately....I dunno, mabe in that walk down the field, that is exactly what I was thinking about yesternite Bill D, because if I remember correctly George Weah(Liberian) headbutted an FC Porto player for racist remarks in the dressing room. Well, George Weah is still wanted by the police in Portugal but well nobody begrudge him for the dresing room offence.

And those who talk who about this and that person being role models for children, I think children should also learn from the role models that provocation is a sin in the sight of man.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 06:05 AM

The equality in the current system comes because the team with eleven players can "lose" the person they think is the worst penalty taker. The team with ten have to use theirs.

This is nonsense. Why should the side that has not been penalised for foul play be disadvantaged at all in shoot out when there is no attempt at equality in the extra time period? The extra men are thought to be a deserved advantage in the rest of the game - so why try and introduce any form of equality at the end of extra time?

Even a side's worst penalty taker has a chance of scoring - it they are allowed to take one. They have no chance at all if they are not allowed to or have already been sent off.

If we are stuck with this method of settling drawn games why not take the opportunity to further discourage foul play and make a result more likely in the 90 minutes?

Fairest way is whenever a draw cannot tale place is to take the penalty shoot out before the kick off. Then if there is a draw, the result is plain for all to see.

Possibly, but the idea is to try to encourage sides to try and win the games in the 90 minutes and to discourage sides from placing all their players behind the ball in an attempt not to lose. A side that had already won the shoot out would have no real incentive to go all out to win and be content to ensure the other side did not win and just hang on.....Finals are supposed to be about 'sudden death'.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 06:16 AM

I think the best example of how to react to that sort of provocation was provided by the German striker Rudi Völler many years ago. In a tense game, in which he was marked by Frank Rijkaard, the Dutchman spat in his face three times. Rudi Völler shouted at him incensed. He did not touch Rijkaard physically at all. The ref saw Völler shouting and sent him off for ungentlemanly conduct. As he was leaving the pitch, Rijkaard spat at him for the fourth time. This time the ref saw it and Rijkaard was also despatched to the changing rooms.
Völler and Rijkaard met and Völler has repeatedly declined to answer questions about what happened in the changing rooms afterwards. He says simply that the quarrel has been settled and he will not comment further. It is Völler's private business, of course. I think it not unlikely that he punched the Dutchman's lights out. No one is telling though.
Völler came out with his reputation and his dignity intact. Not everyone can emulate his superb self discipline, of course. I would like to see a few players try a bit harder though.
In the 1990 final, he was the target of constant brutal fouls. He kept his head until the inevitable happened. He was fouled in the penalty area seven minutes from time. The spot kick went in for the only goal of the game. That is how a winner handles this sort of thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 06:26 AM

Well shambles if I had my way, the team who had a player sent off would be one player short. If it got that point, the missing player would be counted as having missed his penalty.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 11:31 AM

The headbutt-on-the-pitch way of doing things meant that it was done as a public gesture - Mazeratti was identified in a way that must have been felt as humiliating, at considerable personal cost to Zidane. The Samurai approach.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 12:05 PM

That may be the way he sees it. I guess none of us will ever know for sure. I would have preferred Zidane to control his temper and stay on the pitch. He would have had the last laugh had he helped France to win the World Cup. Had it been me, I may well have done the same as Zidane. I would like to think I could have handled it more like Rudi Völller though.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 12:17 PM

The headbutt-on-the-pitch way of doing things meant that it was done as a public gesture - Mazeratti was identified in a way that must have been felt as humiliating, at considerable personal cost to Zidane. The Samurai approach.

An approach not to be recommended - simply the equivalent of very publicly shooting one's self in the foot?

Materazzi was the one who deserved to be publicly humiliated. But by this approach he wasn't. His team won the World Cup and he was seen to play a proud part in this victory. And whatever the provocation - by publicly rising to it - a player of Zidane talents and reputation is only seen to have set a poor example and to have let his team down. End of story - it was not noble gesture - just a stupid one.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 02:04 PM

Has there ever been a case where a penalty shoot-out has got to ten players in a team? (McGrath)

Yes, more than once and much more than ten (48 penalties, 24 per team, seems to be the present record)
Penalty shootout trivia

If the number of players both teams have on the field are unequal at the time the shootout is to start (whether from red cards or from injury) the team with more players decides who of them will not partake in the shootout. So if one team is down to nine and the other still has eleven, the team with the eleven players has to state which two of them will not take penalties. This rule has been made to prevent that a red card or a feigned injury or a wilfully inflicted injury will not be helpful to a team. Otherwise it would be a good idea to have your worst penalty shooter break the leg of the other team's best penalty shooter one minute before the shootout and hope the referee sees the foul.

Zidane has a know problem of anger control. He has been sent off 14 times during his professional career. That may not be a world record, but it is a lot when I compare it with the German record of 8. When Zidane was taken off for another player in the last minute of the game against South Korea he completely ruined a cabin door by violent kicks. Before becoming a professisonal he had already a history of extremely violent outbreaks during games. This history has nearly ruined his career before it started. He compensates a low verbal ability in talking back to perceived insults by physical attack.

Verbal abuse should not happen and should be punished when found out but if every player would react like Zidane in such situations The game could not be played. Like a German player said in an interview: If I count the number of times my opponents claim to have slept with my mother, my wife or my sister that'll take a long time.

I don't consider racist remarks worse than other personal abuse BTW. In Zidane's case, the insult seems not to have been racist. He seems to have been called a Harki or a son of a Harki and was already incensed and furious by several big banners (of Italian supporters) stating "Zidane = Harki". That's one of his known weak points. But he should know how to deal with that by now.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 02:28 PM

Or else if every player reacted like Zidane that kind of thing would cease to be accepted practice.

How come the police didn't move in to get those banners taken down and the people holding them ejected or arrested? I imagine they would have if they'd been banners calling German players "Nazis". "Harki" - referring to the Algerians who backed the French in the war for Algerian independence - is an extremely loaded, and racist, insult in the context.

I think Mazarotti's status as hero will be pretty limited, and Italy's victory in this World Cup will be permanently dented by association with this whole episode.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 03:32 PM

Dented for me. I think the French were better... win or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 06:20 PM

Or else if every player reacted like Zidane that kind of thing would cease to be accepted practice.

If every player reacted like Zidane - it would be the end of football and the start of new accepted practice like Ultimate Fighting or the Roman Games. It was an approach that didn't have any effect on the accepted practice of provocation, when practiced for many years by Roy Keane - so why would Zidane's example work any better?

It seems a suggested approach rather similar to the policy followed for the same vain and forlorn hope by the various governments of Israel. With a similar lack of long-term effect and lack of support for this policy from other nations.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 08:20 PM

I think that if it was normal practice that any player verbally abusing opponents was disciplined the practice would stop. In Sunday's incident, both players should have been given a red card, and that should be the normal practice in such incidents.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Bert
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 02:18 AM

The problem with soccer nowadays is that the tactical foul has become an accepted technique.

How about changing the scoring.

3 points for a goal
2 points for a free kick
1 point for a corner

and minus 2 or 3 for a dive.

or something like that? Then a lot of current tactical moves would give way to more emphasis being placed on skill and fair play.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 03:08 AM

The point about the foul is good one.

The punishment for a run-of-the-mill foul is what? A free kick.

So a defender, who was the only one between the attacker and their own goalkeeper, loses his player and so decides to commit a foul (their first permitted one) to prevent them. Which has stopped the attack and has brought time for the whole of the rest of their team to come back and all get behind the ball.

The free kick is then of little advantage - compared to the position of the players when the original foul was committed. Perhaps only the defending players in front of the ball when the foul was committed should be permitted to be in front of the ball when the free kick is taken?

As it stands - this same player can repeat this foul play at least once more before they get a yellow card caution. They then can repeat this at least once more before they receive another and be finally sent off. Unless the referee is Graham Poll - who has already working on three.

No wonder the creative attacking players we all like to see, like Zidane and Rooney - who struggle to recover from brutal tackles, see their careers limited by this and who do not feel protected - get so frustrated and often retaliate.

Then there is the penalty area. Where one minor foul by an attacking player will see the ref eagerly blow his whistle and for the slightest excuse to award a free kick to the defending side. But where an attacking player needs to be practically be-headed by a defender before a penalty kick is awarded to the atacking side.

And don't get me started on the offside rule.............

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 03:09 AM

Probably like many here, I want to see the cheating eradicated but I do not want to see goals devalued. The magic of football is that the lesser side can always win if they can conjure up a goal. Take that away and the game loses its excitement.
By the way, I hope that this
does not become a training video for the next World Cup...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 03:42 AM

667

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 02:38 PM

The following from the FIFA site.

France playmaker Zinedine Zidane won the adidas Golden Ball voted for by journalists at the 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany™.
Although his team ultimately failed in their bid to lift the Trophy, Les Bleus' No.10 won the vote for the best player to grace the world stage in Germany. Behind 'Zizou' came Italy's defensive rock Fabio Cannavaro, with the Juventus defender's Azzurri team-mate Andrea Pirlo completing the podium.

After a less than impressive showing from France in the group phase, Zidane finally got into gear against Spain in the Round of 16, producing a virtually flawless performance to steer his side to a famous win and a place in the last eight.

If there is such a thing as footballing perfection, the midfield maestro surely attained it in the quarter-final showdown with Brazil. His superb passes, magical feints and all-round inspiration took France into the last four, where a solid performance and a clinical penalty helped Les Bleus dispose of Portugal.

In the Final against Italy, he opened the scoring with an audacious spot-kick. Despite his tireless prompting, however, Zidane was unable to pick up the second FIFA World Cup winner's medal of a glittering career and was sent from the field in extra time for butting Marco Materazzi in the chest.
ENDS

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 04:28 PM

When I was a kid I read a simple sci-fi story about an early attempt in space, maybe it was to go to the moon. It was 'very English'. The reason that I'm bringing it up here is that it explicitly included an incident where the young English hero, expecting to go into space the next day, is out at a public venue and a bully challenges him, and insists that he lick his boot (or, presumably, fight). The young hero licks the boot, because he knows that the least injury will disqualify him for the flight.

I remember this because it seemed very different than any American would possibly imagine, and different than what any American author would write!

So let's imagine that a prescient manager, aware of the frequency of verbal abuse, and of his most reactive (vulnerable) players instituted an anger management program purely so his team would WIN.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 12:25 PM

An alternative to Alanabit's link with point scoring (I got 1660)

Harki is a loaded term I agree but
(1) the police wouldn't have known it and
(2) it is not at all racist, at least not more than the term Quisling. A collaborator is a member of the same group (race) who collaborates with the enemy.

Well, this time, according to Zidane, it was not the word used like it was last time (1998) when he saw a red card during the world cup for stamping on Saudi Arabia's captain. (I ponder whether McGrath would call it racist when one Arab names another Arab son of a collaborator with the enemy).

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 01:54 PM

Well according to Zidane's press conference Materazzi insulted Zidane's Mother and sister three times in succession. I think it was the third time that broke the camel's back, so to speak.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 02:03 PM

France playmaker Zinedine Zidane won the adidas Golden Ball voted for by journalists at the 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany™.

This was chosen before the head butting of course (much to FIFA's embarrassment). I wonder if these same journalists would have still selected Zidane had the choice been made after the event?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 06:17 PM

Sophie Ellis Bextor has been found headbutted to death in a French apartment.

Police say it was murder on Zidanes floor...

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 05:38 AM

After hearing a selction of the victim's songs - the court accepted a plea of provocation and of self-defence.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 04:44 PM

"the police wouldn't have known it" - in which case they were quite remarkably ill-informed, given all the preparation for the World Cup. And it's not exactly hard to find out even if they didn't know in the first place - just type "Harki" into Google, and see what comes up. Takes all of two seconds. The German police force does surely have computers.

"Quisling" would be a racist term for a player of Norwegian extraction playing for Germany. Similarly with "Kapo" for a Jewish player doing the same. When used by people of the same ethnic group these could indeed be political insults rather the racist - but in this case of these Italian banners the message implied would clearly have been "Zidane isn't even French, he's an Algerian - and he's a devalued sort of Algerian at that."

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Nic Pizzo
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 10:02 PM

What really happened to Zidane was Selfishness and no glory and greed, he went down the drain he should go home to mamma and tell her the truth , truth is taunting is in every sport - of course its not right , but, then swearing by fans and slurs remarks are?? until some head butts comes around everyone is surprised, or you kill for it, then will you be charged- in Hockey they call it normal to fight, and people applaud here in Canada, until some one gets hurt.

He who has not sinned may toss the first stone- .

As Zidane stated , I'm offended you called my mother names,poor man, MR. Zidane, you snapped and Chirac forgave you as all of France did, in a country where racial problems are real and since France masacred 500, 000 Alegerians in there occupationa way back in the 50's - unfortunately and recently France has racial problems and wants to be very cultural country, contrarey italy has lowest racial probelm in the world.


Basically the italian palyed and worked like bulls and played well, France got away with diving, they were hurt and complained, why did France make it this far, simple, refs gave them penalty shots in 2 games from palyers cheap dives.

Also now , media and no offence , the media is controlled 50% by Englsih speaking world and French and no way would they say Portugal or Italy or anyone latin should win, they are second class citizen,therefore, media campaign is to smear italian soccer , how about instead showing that Zidane isa bully and real loser after all and greedy as a leader of a team or was he, he should have not done what he did its criminal, he should have walked away, thats what real hero would have been , and win on score board.

But, media will scorn and stereotype italians as usual as England is not there or France aswinners, what esle is new, england and france after all lost and they are bitter about it, therefore Matterazzi is there lucky fellow to smear and make a manace of it-Zidane should apoligize publicaly and also Matterrazi should do the same and put it to rest.

FYI-, Zidane is not muslim or Arbic, he is Roman decent BERBER parents from a mountain region...

So, let the lip readers know that also...and the enquirer news papers and Chirac and his people who are confused and lost.-

VIVA ITALIA AND A CLASSY TEAM- Italy has fashion, food , cars , pride but also, alwasy amdmit ther sins.

ITS ALL ABOUT EVERYONE WANTS TO BE A WANNA BEE.

Ciao!

Nick from Ottawa Canada

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 03:22 AM

There does seem to be a double standard here. Players like Beckham (in the past) were publicly castigated by the whole of the nation's press for the reactions that caused them to be sent off in the World Cup.

The generally expressed view was that - whatever the provocation may have been - the foolish young Beckham should not have reacted in the way he did and it was right that he was sent off.

We now have one of the world's most experience players being sent off for the sort of violent reaction - which had he done in the street would have got him locked-up for assult - and it now somehow matters what the provocation was.......?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 08:44 AM

Well, both players have stated that the insult was not racist. So that's it.

Similarly with "Kapo" for a Jewish player doing the same. (McGrath)

McGrath, your extremely idiosyncratic definition of "racist" is even more twisted than I thought or you simply don't know what "Kapo" means.

"Kapo" was in the concentration camps one of the prisoners aiding the Nazi screws for priviledges. The word is said to be derived from the German spelling of 'comrade police'. The inmates in the camps were Jews, Slavs, Germans, Sinti, Roma, communists, Jehova's witnesses, oppositional army officers, socialist, homosexuals, common criminals...

Therefore the Kapo's as well were all that, namely Jews, Slavs, Germans,... BTW, common German criminals made the best Kapos due to a lack of compassion. To call a Jew a Kapo is an insult, but not a racist insult unless you want to strip that term of any meaning.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 04:19 AM

How long ago it all seems......

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 05:28 AM

That is down to concussion...........