BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 May 04 - 04:06 AM

we applied for a loan to the imf because the country needed investment. parts of the country and our community went to hell under her leadership.

if you go to a great city like Liverpool and see the quid shops in the main city centre where most cities and large towns have the big retailers - you can see that we still do need investment.

the vileness of the woman was in her indifference to suffering and her belief that if we just pretended it was 1952 Len Hutton would score a century, we could hang derek Bentley again and all would be all right with the world.

Thus we have a massive literacy problem in this country. In the 1970's we were starting to buckle down to sort out this problem - we were beginning to honour the idea of comprehensively educating our population in comprehensive schools. All that went out of the window with the national curriculum. the idea that if we all followed a 1952 syllabus all would be well. We are left with thousasnds of children who hardly know vowel sounds in classes pointlessly doing two foreign languages. the remedial reading departments in schools were all but dismantled.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 04 - 04:14 AM

Self confessed Fallibility, humility and tolerance.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 19 May 04 - 04:28 AM

Her tacit approval of her protege, Tony B.?

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 04 - 04:39 AM

Inventing the Poll Tax
Creating the idiom of the New Age Traveller
Making the music of the 1980's some of the most depressive listening, ever.

Sometimes I still shiver

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 19 May 04 - 04:54 AM

weelittledrummer, unemployment wasn't a consequence, it was a very deliberate tory policy, one of thatchers political weapons which she used against the trade unions she hated so vehemently.

She introduced the ' poll tax ' in Scotland to punish them for daring
to vote against the torys.
Incidently ' tory ' I believe is the old Irish word for thief.

And as guest old solder said, she sent British slodiers to their deaths to futher har political ambitions.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: ard mhacha
Date: 19 May 04 - 05:01 AM

Without doubt Sein Feins best recruiting agent, she was responsible for prolonging the mayhem in the north of Ireland.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 May 04 - 05:55 AM

She brought the song 'Maggie May' to life...

That dirty Maggie May, they have taken her away
and she'll never walk down - ing street any more :-)

Strange as it may sound I am of the firm opinion that it was the 'stand on your own feet' selfish attitude that spawned the yuppie generation and is responsible for a lot of the selfishness we are seeing today. Couldn't stand the woman and we are still suffering from the effects of her dogma today.

Yet, to answer the question, she did do away with the 'super' authorities (Greater London, Greater Manchester, Merseyside etc). In my opinion a good

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 May 04 - 06:00 AM

She took a crisis and turned it into a disaster.

But once again, the people who backed her bear the real blame.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 May 04 - 06:00 AM

...thing!

Sorry - There I go again. Can't wait for anything. See what I mean...;-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 May 04 - 06:08 AM

Teribus,

I think history will always be divided over Maggie. My own version FWIW is that she was around in the right place at the right time. I don't think you needed to be Einstien to see the mess we were in and know that some changes needed to be made. She seemed to be the right choice for the time - someone who would stick with her beliefs and take action. Unfortunately, as is perhaps common in people with such strong beliefs, she went too far and I believe the only reason for her long reign was not so much what she was doing but fear of another Labour goverment. I'd have had her do the initial job and then booted her out!

One thing with the history I still can't figure is who's side the union leaders were really on. I know this is my own conspiracy theory and should not be taken too seriously but when I look back, I find it hard to credit that they could create a situation whereby Thatcher would become a popular choice for voters unless they themselves had investment intrests and wanted to bring Labour down. In reality, I suppose it was more a case of blind stupidity.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 May 04 - 06:18 AM

Thatcher would become a popular choice for voters

She was never a popular choice for voters - by which I mean far more people always voted against her than for her. (The same is true of Tony Blair of course.)

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 May 04 - 06:42 AM

I must admit I've never undertood the voting system - perhaps proportional representation would be better?

Perhaps the most worring thing to me is that a) so many people seem to have lost interest to the point that they don't vote and b) I'm sure I'm not alone in casting votes against who I percieve as my greatest enemy rather than voting for someone.

I've harped on about this before but there has not been a possible PM candidate since John Smith that I would have voted for. We never can know how he would have turned out but for me, he had integrity, a social awareness and an ability to balance that up with what, whether we like it or not, is a money driven world - I wish the world was different but not even revolutions will change (some) human nature.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 19 May 04 - 07:16 AM

She stole hope, she abolished chrismas, she stopped free school milk for little kids, she refused to talk to the hunger strikers - which may I add in any other world would have been the UN kicking the loyalists back to where they came from -, she created the most cruel and criminal economy that the UK had since the days of Dickens and Ginparlours.

Her name is forever linked with misery and depression for all but a few Paki flop house owners that made money from it.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 May 04 - 07:25 AM

I have to admit, sorefingers, I never really thought she was capable of showing much feeling to people outside her own.

One there that has interested me was when her son Mark got lost in the desert. She seemed worried then but could equally imagine that had it been somone else's son, she would have been saying "foolish irresponsible young twit - we should not have to help people like that out".

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 19 May 04 - 10:02 AM

McGrath of Harlow, 19 May 04 - 06:00 AM

"She took a crisis and turned it into a disaster."

Complete and utter hysterical crap - your journalistic tendencies are showing Kevin (never mind the facts, I want this message put across, alter the facts or better still get some fake, staged photographs to prove my point)

Margaret Thatcher as an MP supported gay rights; supported woman's right to abortion; was pro-comprehensive eductation. And to those who rabbit on about the ending of free school milk (The "Maggie Thatcher, milk snatcher" crowd). If you are going to castigate her over that issue, you could at least give her the credit due for at the same time saving the "Open University" from oblivion.

MGOH in one of his earlier posts to this thread that includes his opinions on the "As for the Falklands/Malvinas" - like that comment of his I quoted above, again complete and utter crap.

Oh, and weelittledrummer 19 May 04 - 04:06 AM

"we applied for a loan to the imf because the country" had all but been bankrupted by a finacially irresposible Labour Government and Trade Union movement that was totally out of control.

And, "Thus we have a massive literacy problem in this country." well weelittledrummer if, "We are left with thousasnds of children who hardly know vowel sounds in classes pointlessly doing two foreign languages." That might have a great deal to do with poor discipline, "can't be arsed to bother trying pupils", "can't be arsed to bother trying piss poor teaching" aided and abetted all the way down the line by "can't be arsed to bother trying piss poor parents". But neither what you, or MGOH, describe is the case - is it?

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: JennyO
Date: 19 May 04 - 11:48 AM

Apparently this little ditty was doing the rounds in the Thatcher days:

If you think Maggie Thatcher is an old shitbag then smile smile smile
If you think Maggie Thatcher is a prune-faced hag, smile boys thats the style
Maggie and her cabinet, should be boiled in oil
If you think Maggie Thatcher is an old shitbag then smile smile smile

(with apologies to Pack Up Your Troubles)

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 May 04 - 12:14 PM

My comment on the Falklands/Malvinas war, and the green light given to the Generals was based on the decision to scrap HMS Endurance, which had been maintaining a symbolic Royal Navy in the Falklands area.

Perhaps it wasn't intended as a signal that the British government didn't give a damn about the islands, but it must have looked that way from Buenos Aires, especially in light of the fact that in l981 Thatcher's government had been trying to arrange a leaseback arrangement that would have given sovereignty over the islands to Argentina.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 19 May 04 - 01:41 PM

She had strength and resolve, yes. She also had a vision for her country. I did not agree with her vision, but she HAD one, and committed herself to achieving it. She rode roughshod over obstacles and dissenters. There is much there to admire. But she went and shat all over it by having no ears to listen and no heart to feel with.

At the end of it all, mistaken though her vision was (in my opinion), I believe that she did love her country and that she honestly thought she was doing good. There is so much spin in today's politics that I cannot tell what Blair, or Kennedy, or Howard honestly feel about their country. And that worries me.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Cluin
Date: 19 May 04 - 01:46 PM

Margaret Thatcher could rock! Ever seen her go to town on her `64 Strat? MAN!!! She could peel off some great leads.

She also always had a good stash of the best weed available and was real generous with it. After a few jays, she'd go down on you too.

But she just wouldn't change her hairstyle, so we kicked her out of the band. Years later, she had us banned from touring England. The woman knew how to hold a grudge, I'll say that for her.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 19 May 04 - 02:00 PM

McGrath of Harlow 19 May 04 - 12:14 PM

"My comment on the Falklands/Malvinas war, and the green light given to the Generals was based on the decision to scrap HMS Endurance, which had been maintaining a symbolic Royal Navy in the Falklands area."

Never heard of Naval Party 8901 then Kevin? They were Britains symbolic presence in the Falklands - Not HMS Endurance.

Nick Barker, was Captain of HMS Endurance at the time leading up to, and during the Falklands War. I knew him years ago, and remember having a long chat to him just after he got back. Most of HMS Endurance's work was connected with British Antarctic Survey and she (Endurance) was getting pretty long in the tooth by the time the Falklands came along, the decision to scrap her had more to do with age and the cost of refitting her. Stanley was used as her "nominal" base between her trips down into the ice, the rest of the time she spent in Portsmouth Dockyard.

The British politician who did give the Argentinians the green light was Dennis Healey in 1966. After that all they had to do was watch and wait, had they in fact waited another 12 months they could have taken the Falklands and we would not have been able to do anything about it.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,lurker
Date: 19 May 04 - 04:54 PM

She had many admirable qualities.
She lurked where she wasn't welcome and was darn hard to get rid of.
If that isn't something to be proud of, I don't know what is...

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: vectis
Date: 19 May 04 - 06:08 PM

Love her or hate her she did the job she said that she'd do. She took a country on the verge of bankrupcy and turned it round, and it was hard on all of us. She paid off the national debt, much of it left over from WW2 and got the country into credit.
Before she took over the reins my family was about to emigrate to get work and somewhere to live. We stayed and eventually the policies of the day paid off and the work came back.
We're still here, there is enough work to go around and we have a decent roof over our heads.
Those were not good or happy times but IMHO it was worth the struggle.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 19 May 04 - 06:30 PM

Well said, Vectis and El Greko.

McGrath may huff and puff as much as he wants...

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 04 - 06:37 PM

She was good in Spitting Image.

She made the clip top handbag an item to be cherished.

She made the bloody house prices soar when she bought a pad in Dulwich.( which we paid for, she never lived in and police kept 24hr vigil there at our expense.)

She looked OK in that royal blue silk dress.

She became such a caricature of herself, the image is clearly etched and her like will not suceed again so soon.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Cluin
Date: 19 May 04 - 08:41 PM

Sorry. I was thinking of Margaret Trudeau.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Bill KENNEDY
Date: 19 May 04 - 09:19 PM

the only quality of hers I admire is her mortality, I hope to live on this earth without her on it for a while, not soon enough,

less stink on the earth though more in it once she's gone

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Hrothgar
Date: 20 May 04 - 05:50 AM

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 May 04 - 06:06 AM

well yes macgrath, its true we have a fair amount of crap going down in schools and society generally.

my point was and remains that there is no point in having children who can't read and write English in lessons doing two foreign languages, and that is what old smart arse Thatch and keith Joseph legislated, and which remains the bloody lunatic situation which nobody has the sense, or cares enough about to reverse.

mainly because there are people like you going round singing the praises of that golden age with its wise and wonderful leader

as for unions holding the country to ransom - when did our leaders ever listen to anything else except naked power

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Ringer
Date: 20 May 04 - 07:48 AM

What are you on, weelittledrummer? McGrath's on your side.

The current state of British education, awful indeed, is something that Maggie didn't correct; but it's not of her origin. That's down to thoughtless bien pensant educationalists who advocated cretinous things like "comprehensive education" (I put it in quotes because, though it may have been comprehensive, education it was not) and "child-centered learning" (which sounds absolulely wonderful but is a euphemism for chaos in the classroom), at the same time denying that it was right to teach children but it was only permissible to "lead then into learning".

I spit on all educationalists.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 20 May 04 - 08:24 AM

There is so much spin in today's politics that I cannot tell what Blair, or Kennedy, or Howard honestly feel about their country. And that worries me.

Yep, scary isn't it? The only thing I would feel confident they would serve is a little thing called "self interest".

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 May 04 - 10:22 AM

yes ringer it is a vain hope to educate the population comprehensively. there will always be hopeless cases like your good self

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 04 - 10:55 AM

Aye, weelittledrummer, for the old hard left socialists, it's always been the same song, it's always somebody else's fault, never your own.

They should be doing this, they should be providing that, they should be giving us this.

And do you know what? Even if all the above WAS done, provided and given - It still would never be enough.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 20 May 04 - 11:53 AM

I admire here current quality of "being dead". May she stay that way for a long time.
And bearing in mind Tony Blair's policy of copying everything which Thatcher did in her politics, may he also copy this quality - and quickly - Ta.

Quack!!
Geoff the Duck.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: el ted
Date: 20 May 04 - 12:00 PM

You've never had it so good! Stop whining, none of you had go down t'pit at six years old did you, like I did?

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 20 May 04 - 12:04 PM

Her Demise !

She did star in one of my favourite political posters - it was a Labour Party one.   It showed a photo of her face (with a very snotty expression) taken from below, looking right up her nostrils. The caption read "Do the Tories get up your nose ?". I think that she or the Conservative Party got a court order to stop it being used - it was very funny at the time though.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 04 - 05:05 PM

You were lucky, el ted.

We had to get up half hour before we went to bed. Pay pit owner, we did, just for the privilige of wehking there.
When we got 'ome, our dad used to beat us within 2 thousanths of our lives, and we 'ad to re gurgitate our breakfast, just so as rest of mah 10 brothurs an sisturs could get some sort of nurishment in ther poor little bellies.

And you think you had it tough

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 21 May 04 - 05:05 AM

You were lucky.
eric

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: el ted
Date: 21 May 04 - 05:18 AM

Did I mention the fact that it was a uranium mine, and we all glow in the dark!! you lucky lucky buggers!!! AND to make matters worse, we had to play electric guitars because we couldn't afford proper acoustic ones!

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: freda underhill
Date: 21 May 04 - 09:09 AM

I was working as a political cartoonist during her time. yes, she was a good subject for characterture.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 04 - 06:11 PM

She was a strong minded woman...perhaps stronger minded than the "Old woman" who is Prime Minister at the mo

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 May 04 - 06:25 PM

Sincerity in itself is not a good quality, when it is combined with ruthless wrongheadedness.

huff and puff, Ed? That seems to suggest a certain tendency to get over excited, which sometimes results in people making personal attacks on other people just because they find themselves in disagreement with them. Offhand, I can't recall ever doing that on the Mudcat. If I have, that would have been a singularly pointless thing to do.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: HuwG
Date: 23 May 04 - 08:00 PM

My personal thoughts re Maggie and the Falklands War. It is a long-exploded myth that it was Maggie's personal "handbagging" which led to victory. With most ministers (including John Nott, the Defence Secretary) vacillating and considering accepting Galtieri's fait accompli, the service chiefs, particularly those of the Royal Navy, gatecrashed her office and said in effect, send everything we have listed in Janes to take those islands back. Otherwise, there is no reason to keep the Royal Navy in being.

During the war, she did perform as a Churchillian tory leader is supposed to, but at the end of hostilities, many people (including many in the army who I knew) disliked the triumphalist attitude. Such petty acts as not including any personnel who had been visibly wounded in the victory parades, sent entirely the wrong message. Instead of, "We sent soldiers to fight far away. Here is what it cost. We believe for that for principles of democracy and sovereignty, it was worth paying. Agree or not as you wish, but these servicemen embody your right to do so", the message seemed to be "We have proved that we had bigger cojones than Johnny Gaucho. We salute those who did not cop a bomb or a bullet. They are winners The rest, requiring more men to carry them off the battlefield, are losers. Those who complain are sore losers."

Oddly enough, I believe that she had qualities that we don't ever notice in her purely public image. Her husband was a charming, self-deprecating patrician who took in good part his cruel lampooning (by John Wells and Richard Ingrams). Her home life seems to have been perfectly happy, although her son is not perhaps a good advertisment for it.

Overall though, I never liked her combative style, and her pig-headed persistence in courses which were obviously unwise, and divisive.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 24 May 04 - 12:59 AM

Seems like finding a "quality" for "Mad Maggie" would be like finding a "crock of fetid dingo kidneys".

As McGofH (and a few others) said, she ain't in charge anymore, Huzzah!

She came to St. Louis a couple of years ago as part of a "speaker's series" and I couldn't find anyone who felt it necessary to go and picket her. I thought it over and decided they were right. She was "gone" and unlikely to return.

What a grand legacy she left!!!

The Bitch!

CB

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 24 May 04 - 05:49 AM

One of the legacies she left is the influence on the men who have followed her....Hope they don't don the wig and clothes in her image..in private....Who knows????

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 24 May 04 - 05:56 AM

She proved to me that women can be as excreble politicians as men...and as dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Maggie Thatcher
Date: 24 May 04 - 06:12 AM

You can all fuck off. I set out to destroy the trade unions and nearly succeeded.
I hate all working class people, especially fucking miners.

Maggie of Kesteven

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 May 04 - 04:17 PM

I'm glad she never caved in to the pressure to wear low-cut jeans and a halter top.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 25 May 04 - 08:43 AM

I had a sort of gruding respect for her. She did some things that seemed harsh at the time..but they needed doing and she did them. At least we all knew where she stood...can't say that about this current bunch, can we ?

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: el ted
Date: 25 May 04 - 08:50 AM

no, true.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: el ted
Date: 25 May 04 - 08:51 AM

oh, post no 100 by the way.