BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: jpk
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 05:07 PM

best way to deal with terorist is to ignore them except to kill them when the chance avails[i know it sounds cold but it is sorta like a spoiled child looking for att.if they know they can get to you they will continualy carry on,if they learn that the only att it gets is there be slapped they will learn better(maybe).

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 05:22 PM

Doesn't look like that method is working very well, jpk. Maybe it's time to try a new approach.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 05:44 PM

Columnnist Gary Young used a thought provoking analogy in his comment piece in today's Guardian:

To say that terrorists would have targeted us even if we hadn't gone into Iraq is a bit like a smoker justifying their habit by saying, "I could get run over crossing the street tomorrow." True, but the certain health risks of cigarettes are more akin to playing chicken on a four-lane highway. They have the effect of bringing that fatal, fateful day much closer than it might otherwise be.

And earlier in the same piece he draws an even more powerful parallel:

We know what took place. A group of people, with no regard for law, order or our way of life, came to our city and trashed it. With scant regard for human life or political consequences, employing violence as their sole instrument of persuasion, they slaughtered innocent people indiscriminately. They left us feeling unified in our pain and resolute in our convictions, effectively creating a community where one previously did not exist. With the killers probably still at large there is no civil liberty so vital that some would not surrender it in pursuit of them and no punishment too harsh that some might not sanction if we found them.

The trouble is there is nothing in the last paragraph that could not just as easily be said from Falluja as it could from London....

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:04 PM

So -Carol C. what is your suggestion---we sure have not really killed many and I do believe that we are running out of cheeks to turn---both on the top of the body and the bottom.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:10 PM

We certainly haven't been turning any cheeks, Bill H, and we've killed many, many more of them than they've killed of us.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:10 PM

...and for every one we kill, we create a dozen more.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:13 PM

we sure have not really killed many

Not killed too many terrorists, true enough - though with successful suicide bombers there is a practical problem involved. Co-religionists, we've killed an awful lot of them, even if we haven't been counting the bodies.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:35 PM

Thank you McGrath---"Terrorists" is what I meant---now that all my, and all our communal, cheeks are gone. If many of these co-religionists would truly step forward we would be moving in the right( I mean correct---"right" is not that clean a word now) direction---and that includes the evangalical crazies who are sure they are also right. Or as Dylan said--not that I am crazy about him---"--God On Their Side".

Bottom line is, as usual, people in power/control/oil/dollars. The fanatics on both sides don't realize that the power people really control things---our involvement in Iraq is a perfect example of that. The Karl Rove cover-up is another. He who leaks the news is their hero and she who defends freedom is in jail.

Bit of drift there=-=sorry.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:41 PM

If your definition of "terrorist" includes those, like the US government, who use state sponsored terrorism, then I don't understand your original question addressed to me, Bill H.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:44 PM

BTW, McGrath, you need to learn that the "terrorists" are whomever GW Bush says they are.   Any "terrorist" who hasn't yet committed a terrorist act is just a future terrorist who needs to be killed before he or she has a chance to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:48 PM

You really missed your calling---you should have been a negligence attorney and parsed words. Did you give Bill Clinton the great idea for asking for the definition of "is".

We could go into the horrors that abound in this world---ours (except Nam--and that had to do with the French) seem more defensive after WW2. In addition, I daresay, much has to do with poverty worldwide and the envy of a better standard of living in Western nations (not just U S).

Don't get me wrong--I think that this administration has mislead the world, us, and Tony Blair (for whatever reason he went along boggles the mind)---but in the bigger picture ---the historical one we do come off a bit better than you---who, by the way, seem to enjoy this way of life----would have us believe.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:52 PM

jpk - "i know it sounds cold but it is sorta like a spoiled child looking for att.if they know they can get to you they will continualy carry on,if they learn that the only att it gets is there be slapped they will learn better..."

Doesn't work too well. The only thing the kid learns is to slap if you don't like something or that its O.K. to slap if you are in a power position. Trouble is - when they go to school and engage in attention seeking behaviours and the only limit is a slap, what does the teacher do? If you slap, they learn to slap.

Same thing applies to this war and all wars.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:54 PM

I notice you always resort to insulting me when the discussion doesn't go your way, Bill H. That's a sign of weak debating tactics.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:57 PM

And I still have no idea what your question was about, nor what point you are trying to make.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 07:09 PM

Bill H. - Everyone wants a better standard of living but they do not, necessarily, want to become "Americans" to do that. Most people would rather preserve their culture their religion and their homeland and be given education and opportunity within the context of their own society.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 07:23 PM

"Teflon Tony" Blair has again managed to make political capital from seeming disaster.
Today in parliament he attempted to justify his discredited stance on Iraq by using last weeks bombings.
He peddled his platitudes to a hushed House of Commons, maintaining that these bombings were proof that "We must hunt down the terrorists abroad to keep our people safe".

The only two MPs to speak against Blair, were George Galloway and to a lesser extent, Alex Salmon, the Scottish Nationalist leader.
What a bunch of sycophants and cowards, so afraid of media censure as to betray their principles, when they should have been spitting blood and calling for the heads of those who have brought the UK to this pass.

In my opinion it will be found that those bombings have been carried out by British citizens,and to a large extent,in response to UK support for the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Those of us who voiced our protest to the Iraq war on these pages, cited the threat of terrorism as one of the main points against taking part and now another of our prophecies have come about.

Latest leaked documents suggest that both Britain and America are about to cut and run from Iraq, just as the Americans did from Vietnam, and the same endgame is in prospect for those who were forced by financial hardship to support the invaders....The butchers knife.

Maybe some day we'll learn to think again before attempting to export our economic and social systems to other cultures, to pave the way for future invasion and piracy...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 07:49 PM

Ok. I think I'm beginning to catch your drift a little bit.

In addition, I daresay, much has to do with poverty worldwide and the envy of a better standard of living in Western nations (not just U S).

Poverty is probably a big part of it. But the resentment doesn't come from envy. It comes from people wanting powerful countries like the US to stop exploiting their countries and stealing their resources, and killing their civilians in the process.

Yes I do enjoy the standard of living that is possible in the US. I live quite frugally by most US standards, but I am very blessed by world standards. I would like the less fortunate people in the world to be able to enjoy what I am able to enjoy. But this will never happen as long as the stronger and more powerful countries prey upon the weaker countries. And as long as the this continues to be the state of affairs, "terrorism" will never go away. It will only continue to increase.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: skarpi
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 08:06 PM

H-alló all , i am -can´t sleep at the moment but where are we going ?
Why do we have this anger for each other and hate ?
Do they want something that we have ? Or do we seek to get something that they have ? Who are they ? Who are we ?what have we become?
a monsters??? or have we been that all this time ??

For many hundred years the humans have been killing each other ,the
vikings going around and killing , christian
killing jews, araps killing christian serbian killing islam people
in serbia and not far from us only few years back, what do we learn over theese years ?? Nothing nothing at all, yes there is one thing
that we learn and that is how make better weapons to kill and blow up people.

It´s coming into our back , What ever we do to these people they do it back.Do we seek for their Oil ?? I wonder ??

Maybe the Icelanders should start making their own energie the Hydrogen
and start selling it , then what will happen ??


When are we gonna learn from all this ???
Well i leave this .................   
to the special lists, there are enough of them out there .


Well what ever i was just wandering so just ignore everything I wrote

I believe that every person on earth have somthing good in their heart, I have learned that on short time on this earth and I will
do so..........in the future... with lots good thoughts
to all of you ,,,,,,,,
P.s I wrote alot of other stuff witch I wiped out ???
some things are better be off to be not written.

May god be with you All the best Skarpi Iceland

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Alba
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 08:57 PM

Þakka þú fyrir orðatiltæki hvaða þú did. Friður til þú og þinn Skarpi.
(I hope I have said this correctly)

Love and Light
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 10:24 PM

Well, Carol C., from your last post I am happy that we are in agreement on some things. I just don't have the harsh vies of the US---except for the current administration---that you do.

I also agree with the other writer---things do not have to be in our image. See my first posting re: the article in the Op Ed in NY Times a few days back now relating to the Jeffersonian view on that subject.

That said, one must respond when one is threatened. I don't want to nit-pick definitions here---let us just call it self-defense. Please do not get into the Iraq business since that is a quagmire of our own doing---Afghanistan is not. Saudi Arabia should be.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: jpk
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 04:57 PM

dear carol c if not for the media,this would not even be a blip on the radar.the only way they can accomp.anything with these actions is with media help and there tend. to [blow]things way out of proportion.(more of there [if it bleeds it leads]reporting standards.   giving into the plo,and it's sister orgs sure accomp. a lot did it not[yep more violence]and to think clinton and those before him [bush sr included][yes and carter to] were proud of there placating actions to the spoiled brats of socalled palistine   i do feel for the victims,but must carry on.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: jpk
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 05:17 PM

ya know the other sad thing about this whole ordeal,is going to be the number of lawyers crawling out of the wood works looking to make a fast buck,plus the number of "book"deals that will pop up.    ps carolc,you want better insight into the moslim world,just ask the dutch.[i talked to a friend of mine(one of the few)in norway that i met in the late 70s while in the service,he told me that they are getting really feedup with "them"]. have a great day anyway

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 05:20 PM

Spoiled brats of Palestine?

jpk, there is clearly quite a lot that you don't know about the situation in Israel and the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem.'

The first thing you probably don't know is that there have been several hundred Israelis killed since the beginning of the second intifada, while the number of Palestinians killed numbers in the several thousands (a very large number of them children). The Palestinians in these locations are under military occupation by the government of Israel, and they have no legal rights and no human rights whatever. Their lives are completely subject to the whims of the government of Israel and the Israeli Defense Forces.

The second thing you probably don't know is that as we speak, the Palestinians in these locations (as well as some other locations) are having their homes bulldozed right out from under them so that Israel can take all of the rest of the land that they (the Palestinians) and their ancestors have been living on and farming for more than a thousand years (with the possible exception of Gaza).

I condemn the killing of innocents on both sides. But to call the reactions of some Palestinians to these human rights violations and this outright theft and politicide by the government of Israel, "spoiled brats", is either one of the most profoundly ignorant things I've ever heard, or it is one of the most hateful and bigoted things I've ever heard.

I would be willing to bet you a lot of money, that if the government of Israel was doing to you what it is and has been doing to the Palestinians, you would defend your people and your land. Quite likely with the use of violence.

The only way to end the violence in Israel and the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem is to end the occupation of these locations by the government of Israel and let the Palestinians live their lives in freedom, in their own independent state.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 05:28 PM

By the way, jpk... nobody EVER gave in to the Palestinians. Not EVER. The Palestinians are the ONLY ones who have EVER made ANY concessions.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: jpk
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 05:29 PM

lets see,a little bit of country wisdom,if poppa dog an mommy dog got's raybies and puppy do to,put down mom an pop do not make pups prob go a way, sorry but true---life ain't fair, an never will be,
   wish i/we could change the way of the beast,we can't--can only keep tring. hagd

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: jpk
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 05:30 PM

yea right ask yasser.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 05:41 PM

Little bit of country wisdom, jpk...

If yer standing on someone's neck with your barn cleaning boots, and he keeps stabing you in the leg to try to get you off his neck...

GET YER BIG OLD BARN CLEANING BOOT OFF HIS NECK AND LEAVE HIM ALONE

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 06:20 PM

Or--possibly---shoot the critter because maybe your boot was on his neck for a reason.   Hmmmm---food (Kosher) for thought.

I wonder, Carol, why every discussion---this started as London 9/11 gets beamed up from you''like "Scotty"--into an Israeli/Palestinian thing. Let me see---I have the OED in front me --shall look up compulsive and obsessive.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 09:22 PM

I'm not the one who brought up the Palestinians, Bill, though it doesn't surprise me in the least that you think I did. Actually, I almost never am the one who brings up the subject of Israel/Palestine. But I'm one of the few who isn't afraid to talk openly and honestly about it once someone else has brought it up, and to confront the many blatant falsehoods that are commonly repeated about that subject. And that's why you see my name in many of the discussions on the subject.

Or--possibly---shoot the critter because maybe your boot was on his neck for a reason.

Well, if you don't regard the Palestinians as actual people you might use the word critter. But if you are talking about human beings, as I am, you might want to consider why people would be wanting to defend their homes and their loved ones. Maybe because they have every right to do that. So if your foot is on their neck because you want to steal their land and livelihood, and they aren't too happy about you wanting to do that and they try to defend themselves, their property, and their loved ones, maybe you'd better keep your foot there.

If you do, though, don't be surprised if they keep stabbing you in the leg.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 09:28 PM

And of course, the option of shooting them has been tried many, many times. That approach doesn't seem to be working too well either. But I am also not at all surprised to see that you approve of killing people for the purpose of stealing their property.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 09:43 PM

The face of 9-11 in London falls nicely into place for the renewal of the Patriot Act.

The only things that are missing from the Patriot Act this time around are the sunset clauses. In other words: when/if the Patriot Act is "renewed" this week it will be FOREVER !!!!!!!!


http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/patact3.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: dianavan
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 10:03 PM

jpk - Its comments like this, "you want better insight into the moslim world,just ask the dutch.[i talked to a friend of mine(one of the few)in norway that i met in the late 70s while in the service,he told me that they are getting really feedup with "them"]...

that expose your ignorance. How can you base your opinions on the heresay of just one of the Dutch. Don't you think that it is just one opinion? You make it sound as if all of the Dutch are fed up with Muslims and that all Muslims are terrorists.

Carol C. is right about the Palestinians. They have been denied a homeland by the establishment of Israel. Where are you from? Maybe we should take your homeland and give it to the poor Sudanese from Darfur.

Try to wrap your head around the fact that terrorists come in all shapes and sizes. A terrorist is a terrorist. When other criminals are arrested, we do not identify their religion. Why do you assume that all Muslims are responsible for the actions of a few?

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 11:06 PM

Just to clarify though... I am not now, and never have been suggesting that the part of Israel that lies within the Green Line should be taken from the Israelis. I am saying that the occupation of the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem should end, and the Palestinians who live in those places should be left alone by Israel to establish their own state in peace and freedom.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 01:46 AM

I seem to rememder reading somewhere that a lot of Palestine was taken over by Jordan. Perhaps a homeland could be established there?

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 01:53 AM

The land that Jordan took was later captured and occupied by Israel in the 1967 war. This is the land that is now in dispute, and that the Palestinians want as their homeland.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 01:54 AM

This land, btw, is the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 02:50 AM

Jordan has massive tits

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 03:38 AM

This thread has drifted so far off course, that the last comment by GUEST actually brought it closer to its origins...

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 01:01 PM

Carol C. is right about the Palestinians. They have been denied a homeland by the establishment of Israel. Where are you from?

Dianavan is obviously ignornt of modern Middle Eastern history to make a statement like that.

At the time of the establishment of the State of Israel, the Palestinians rejected a state of their own. From 1948 until 1967 the West Bank and East Jerusalem were part of Jordan and Gaza was part of Egypt. They could have created a Palestinian state at any time during those years but there was absolutely no interest in the establishment of a Palestinian state. Instead the Palestinians waited for the Arabs to drive the Jews into the sea.

After the 1973 war, Anwar Sadat of Egypt realized that driving the Jews into the sea wasn't going to happen and Egypt concluded a peace treaty with Israel. Israel returned the Sinai to Egypt and wanted to give back Gaza. However, Egypt decided the Palestinians in Gaza weren't worth the trouble and wouldn't take Gaza back.

Years later, Jordan also concluded a peace treaty with Israel. By then, had also long ago decided the Palestinians in the West Bank were too much trouble and had no interest in taking back the West Bank.

For many years there has been a general consensus in Israel that a Palestinian state is inevitable. What the Palestinians need is leadership that will stop the terrorism. When that happens, the Palestinian state will be created in very short order.

Blaming Israel for the fact that there is not yet a Palestinian state is the province of either ignorance or anti-Semitism.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 01:09 PM

The first thing you probably don't know is that there have been several hundred Israelis killed since the beginning of the second intifada.

CarolC seeks to minimize the number of Israelis killed by Palestinian terrorists. If you take the number Israelis killed since the beginning of the second Intifada as a proportion of the population, it is the equivalent of 11 9/11 attacks or as if 33,000 had been killed that day.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 01:22 PM

GUEST is incorrect on all fronts.

The Palestinians have been trying to get a homeland of their own since before the 1948 war. They have never stopped trying to get their own state. They have been thwarted in their objectives by both Israel as well as Jordan. But it has been their dream and their ambition all along.

To say that the Palestinians could have created a state at any time is simply a lie. Neither Jordan nor Egypt had any intention of letting them do that. But at least Jordan and Egypt didn't run them out of their homes and off their land. And they didn't bulldoze their olive groves. In that respect, the Palestinians did not have quite as much incentive to resist the Jordanians and the Egyptians as they do the Israelis.

CarolC seeks to minimize the number of Israelis killed by Palestinian terrorists. If you take the number Israelis killed since the beginning of the second Intifada as a proportion of the population, it is the equivalent of 11 9/11 attacks or as if 33,000 had been killed that day.

You, GUEST, are seeking to minimize the number of Palestinians killed by Israelis. There have been thousands of Palestinians killed. More than three for every Israeli killed. I don't know the ratio of Palestinians to Israelis overall, but if we use your equation, the number of Palestinians killed by Israelis would be equal to or greater than 33 9/11 attacks, or as if 99,000 or more Palestinians had been killed that day.

Perhaps you seek to minimize these numbers because like Bill H, you do not regard Palestinians as human beings.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Alba
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 01:28 PM

Are there figures available regarding the number of Palestinians that have been killed over the Years Guest: 01:09 PM or could you direct me to resource that would help me to find out.
Thanks in advance
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 01:32 PM

For many years there has been a general consensus in Israel that a Palestinian state is inevitable. What the Palestinians need is leadership that will stop the terrorism. When that happens, the Palestinian state will be created in very short order.

This is simply laughable. The Palestinian leadership should not be under any obligation to provide security for the people who are occupying their land. What Israelis need is leadership who will end the occupation of the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem. When that happens, Palestinian terrorism against Israel will be eliminated in very short order.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 01:36 PM

Here you go, Alba...

B'tselem

B'tselem statistics page

Note that this is a website owned and maintained by Israeli Jews.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Alba
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 05:08 PM

Thanks Carol.
Appreciated.
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: jpk
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 05:18 PM

just give the muslim/arab world what the openly say they want[the destrution of the jews and to wipe them from this earth]and see if that leads to peace,or maybe to there next openly spoke of target,everyone else who not muslim,after that they will be reduced to fighting with each other,as they are still doing,and have been doing for centuries,even before muslimnism came into being.
have a great day anyway

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 05:18 PM

Thread Drift---hell, what happened in London (as far as this discussion is concerned) is about as far removed from --in these great minds-- as the Blitz is in the many years that have gone by.

To get back on the track---the Jordan/ Egypt/ 1948/ etc' has been talked to death here already---Israel is a legitimate state. Period. They defended the land that was going to be taken from them by their Arab neighbors--who have no use for their own brethren.

But, the Brits. They surely have handled their situation w/ great restraint and come to some quick conclusions without jumping at them as we did in Oklahoma City, for one. Their press, known for banner tabloid headlines,has been the image of restraint and objectivity. More that our own press, I must say.

The balancing act of freedom and security is a tough one. Let us hope that they and we can come to a good balance so that our way of life is not impacted by those who--for whatever twisted reasons--would destroy it. It will, surely, take a fair-minded administration on both sides of the pond to come up with such a balance. Here it is not balancing too well by leader(s) who state that they have never made any mistakes.   Such surety---please.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 05:23 PM

Israel is a legitimate state. Period. They defended the land that was going to be taken from them by their Arab neighbors--who have no use for their own brethren.

Nobody in this discussion is saying Israel is not a legitimate state. But they did far more than defend the land they had originally been given. They also stole quite a lot of land that had been given to others, and now they are in the process of stealing from the Palestinians the West Bank, (possibly) Gaza, and East Jerusalem.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: jpk
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 05:25 PM

here here for blair and sticking with the subject at the g8 and not being sidetracked by headlining.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 05:27 PM

jpk, there may be some extremist Muslims who are calling for what you have said, but the vast majority of them just want to be left alone to live their lives in peace.