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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Peace Date: 07 Feb 07 - 07:32 PM Read it then tell me about our Governments and the shit they 'wouldn't do'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Peace Date: 07 Feb 07 - 07:47 PM Read about the incident at Skull Valley in 1968. OOPS. "An open-air test of VX nerve agent at Dugway Proving Ground in Utah in 1968 goes awry, killing 6,000 sheep and dealing a major blow to the U.S. chemical weapons program." When that was first released by the underground press, it was called 'tinfoil hattery' and mocked. Hell, OUR government would NEVer do something like that. Oh yeah? I'll see if I can find you some pictures fer krissake. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Peace Date: 07 Feb 07 - 08:03 PM Thank you. This rant was brought to you by someone who agrees with Local Yokel and who is fed up to his arse with the "we can't beat them with facts so we'll mock them" school of thought. Here's a bit more for y'all to chew on. '"Of Microbes and Mock Attacks: Years Ago, The Military Sprayed Germs on U.S. Cities Jim Carlton / Wall Street Journal 22oct01 SAN FRANCISCO -- Fifty-one years ago, Edward J. Nevin checked into a San Francisco hospital, complaining of chills, fever and general malaise. Three weeks later, the 75-year-old retired pipe fitter was dead, the victim of what doctors said was an infection of the bacterium Serratia marcescens. Decades later, Mr. Nevin's family learned what they believe was the cause of the infection, linked at the time to the hospitalizations of 10 other patients. In Senate subcommittee hearings in 1977, the U.S. Army revealed that weeks before Mr. Nevin sickened and died, the Army had staged a mock biological attack on San Francisco, secretly spraying the city with Serratia and other agents thought to be harmless.' Read all about it. HERE. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Peace Date: 07 Feb 07 - 08:07 PM I'm still pissed off, so here's more: "But the radiation experiments did not end there, nor even with the end of World War II. The malignant flowering of curiosity about the effects of radiation on humans continued for three more decades. Until the 1970s, government scientists and physicians made use of unwitting Americans in order to discover the effects of exposure. Scientists already knew that radiation was dangerous." From here. From the work of a Pulitzer Prize winner--for this work! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Peace Date: 07 Feb 07 - 08:10 PM '"It was in the 1950s and America was in the height of the Cold War. The United States and the Soviet Union were locked in a deadly race to produce the most powerful nuclear bombs. A cartoon turtle taught the children what to do in case the Soviets attacked. Air raid drills were staged in every classroom and city across America. Little did Americans know they were already under attack -- by America. "The human populations didn't know, the local governments didn't know, this was a secret army project that went on for 20 years," said author Leonard Cole. The U.S. government was preparing for germ warfare by secretly spraying biological agents on its own citizens. The tests were conducted in 239 cities, including one of Oklahoma's most prominent communities. "Among the hundreds and hundreds of tests that the army did, Stillwater, Oklahoma was targeted," said Cole, an expert on the Army's development of biological weapons. In some cities reports indicate Americans actually died because of the testing. Government records show florescent particles of zinc cadmium sulfide were released in Stillwater in 1962. "Cadmium itself is known to be one of the most highly toxic materials in small amounts that a human can be exposed to," Cole said.' From http://www.kfor.com/Global/story.asp?s=1250476 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Peace Date: 07 Feb 07 - 08:14 PM 'A snippet from the study... "Conclusion. This study provides strong epidemiological evidence for a link between increasing mercury from thimerosal- containing childhood vaccines and neurodevelopment disorders and heart disease. In light of voluminous literature supporting the biologic mechanisms for mercury-induced adverse reactions, the presence of amounts of mercury in thimerosal-containing childhood vaccines exceeding Federal Safety Guidelines for the oral ingestion of mercury, and previous epidemiological studies showing adverse reactions from such vaccines, a causal relationship between thimerosal- containing childhood vaccines and neurodevelopment disorders and heart disease appears to be confirmed.' But, WTF, huh? No one is interested because our governments would never allow this shit to happen. It's too bad so many good people have given up on the kids of this world by blindly trusting governments who have and do trample their citizens into the bloody dirt. But WTF, huh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Peace Date: 07 Feb 07 - 08:17 PM BTW, Local Yokel, what size tinfoil hat do YOU wear? Please make mine a 7 3/4, OK? We'll stand out in the crowd. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: GUEST,Local Yokel Date: 07 Feb 07 - 08:21 PM http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/0002387/42/ First link that popped up on Yahoo to a story about the spray-on virus for lunchmeats. Looks like a govt pep-piece, but that's a place to start if you want to investigate. Do a google or yahoo search for more and you'll find that only ONE test was done for this stuff. And, these things haven't been studied that long. Bacteria is necessary in the gut. They (FDA) admit they don't know what this will do to beneficial bacteria. AND, they issued the permission to use the stuff to one company, BUT THEY WON'T ANNOUNCE WHICH ONE. In addition to being potentially deadly, and a betrayal of what the agency is supposed to do, this is government-sponsored terrorism. I'd have to see to believe on the shots in Maryland. Sounds like a Color of Law violation. Another thing, folks, you don't even have to sign the waivers to get your kids to pass on vaccinations. YOU CAN'T BE FORCED TO SIGN ANYTHING IN AMERICA (It's called the Fifth Amendment). All you need to do is appear at your kid's school and TELL them you don't want the garbage in your kid, and if they vaccinate, you will sue the school district and the individuals who ignored your demands. Might be a good idea to tape yourself telling the school officials, though, so you can provide proof in a court case. Americans have been bluffed and bullied into accepting a lot, but injecting stuff like this into your kids...that's too much. Talk about environmentalism, where does it begin if not here? Keep the people with needles away from your kids if you have doubts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: GUEST,Local Yokel Date: 07 Feb 07 - 08:34 PM Excellent article on Velma Orlikow, Peace. Thanks for posting that. And the one about govt experimentation books. Yeah, tinfoil hats. I've come to the conclusion people want to be ignorant. Willful ignorance. A self-induced blind spot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: bobad Date: 07 Feb 07 - 08:38 PM All medical interventions are evaluated by calculating their risks versus their benefits. If you Google "vaccines risk vs. benefits" the overwhelming opinions seem to favour vaccination - FWIW. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Peace Date: 07 Feb 07 - 09:41 PM "PRESS RELEASE October 17, 2001 Press release re internal CDC report on thimerosal and autism An announcement was made today by the law firm of Waters & Kraus, the firm that filed the first known lawsuit alleging that a mercury preservative in children's vaccines caused neurological damage to an infant ultimately diagnosed with autism. Waters & Kraus is leading a consortium of ten firms in as many states that are actively prosecuting cases of this nature (firms listed below). Andy Waters, the lead attorney in the cases, announced that his firm is now in possession of a previously unreleased confidential report authored by Centers for Disease Control scientists which studied autism as a potential neurological injury caused by mercury in children's vaccines. A different version of the report was made public and has been cited by the recent Institute of Medicine study as inconclusive on the issue of whether the mercury-based vaccine preservative known as thimerosal has contributed to cause a nationwide epidemic of regressive autism and other neurological disorders in small children. The confidential version of the study, however, clearly demonstrated that an exposure to more than 62.5 micrograms of mercury within the first three months of life significantly increased a child's risk of developing autism. Specifically, the study found a 2.48 times increased risk of autism - that is to say, children with the exposure were more than twice as likely to develop autism as children not exposed. In the United States, courts of law have generally held that a relative increased risk of 2.0 or higher is sufficient to substantiate that a given exposure causes disease. As but one example, in the case of Cook v. United States, 545 F.Supp. 306, at 308 (Northern District - California 1982) the Court stated that, "in a vaccine case, a relative risk greater than 2.0 establishes that there is a greater than 50% chance that the injury was caused by the vaccine." from http://www.geocities.com/arnfl/stats.html?20077 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: GUEST,Local Yokel Date: 07 Feb 07 - 11:38 PM 1977: Senate hearings on Health and Scientific Research confirm that 239 populated areas had been contaminated with biological agents between 1949 and 1969. Some of the areas included San Francisco, Washington, D.C., Key West, Panama City, Minneapolis, and St. Louis. 1977: Ray Ravenhott, director of the population program of the U.S. Agency for International Development (AID), publicly announced the agency's goal to sterilize one quarter of the world's women. In reports by the St Louis Post-Dispatch, Ravenhott in essence cited the reasoning for this being U.S. corporate interests in avoiding the threat of revolutions which might be spawned by chronic unemployment. Since then, allegations have surfaced that free vaccinations being given by the World Health Organization include a "pregnancy anti-body" which fools a woman's body into treating a pregnancy as an infection. http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/biowar.html "This is not the first time the WHO (World Health Organization) has been called on the carpet to explain their surreptitious use of antifertility vaccines. Millions of female Mexicans, Nicaraguans and Filipinos were duped into taking tetanus vaccines, some of which were laced with a female hormone that could cause miscarriage and sterilization. In 1995 a Catholic organization called Human Life International accused the WHO of promoting this Canadian-made tetanus vaccine covertly laced with a pregnancy hormone called human choriogonadotropic hormone (HCG). Suspicions were aroused when the tetanus vaccine was prescribed in the peculiar dose of five multiple injections over a three month period, and recommended only to women of child-bearing age. When an unusual number of women experienced vaginal bleeding and miscarriages after the shots, a hormone additive was uncovered as the cause." http://www.rense.com/general54/Cancer-causing_vaccinesR.htm (Oh, this is good. The spray-on listeria killer for meat isn't allowed in the U.S. for antibiotic treatment, but it's allowed as a pesticide. So, they're spraying pesticide on your meat): "This is the first time FDA has regulated the use of a phage preparation as a food additive. However, phages are currently approved in the U.S. for pesticide applications, including uses on crops. Although not currently permitted in the U.S., phages are used in other countries in antibiotic therapy." http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/opabacqa.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: dianavan Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:41 AM How can they make this mandatory unless its free? It would be better to educate about safe sex and provide free condoms. I think its a bad idea to vaccinate because then girls will think they are protected and not worry about STDs. In other words, I think it may actually encourage unprotected sex. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Feb 07 - 03:10 AM They're not free, and they are added to the growing list of things like MMR, (measles, mumps, rubella), DPT (whooping cough), tetanus, chicken pox. . .they're all required. Parents get their children well-child checkups and shots are part of it (there's a copay) or they go to the county for discounted shots. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Bee Date: 08 Feb 07 - 09:10 AM Dianavan: "I think its a bad idea to vaccinate because then girls will think they are protected and not worry about STDs. In other words, I think it may actually encourage unprotected sex. " This implies that girls would think, or be taught, that there is only one kind of STD, and even the most rudimentary STD education will mention that there are *many* STDs, and that safe sex is either no sex OR sex with a condom. It's like saying "I think it's a bad idea to tell people to use seatbelts because then they'll think they're protected and not worry about car crashes". Most kids are not that stupid. And some kids will always do a few reckless things in their lives, not thinking of consequences, like having unprotected sex in the heat of the moment, or while high on something, or they get date raped. Wouldn't it make sense to give them at least protection from one killing disease? Bit late when they've already *had* unprotected intercourse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Feb 07 - 10:28 AM I'll say it again--this isn't about sex. It's simply one way to prevent cancer. Stop worrying about how other people raise their children and start thinking about a global way to help your community stay healthier by eliminating a major health hazard for grown women who are experiencing cervical cancer. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: dianavan Date: 08 Feb 07 - 10:49 AM I was musing. Its might be a good idea and I would ask my daughter to consider it but I don't think it should be mandatory and if it is, it should be paid for by the govt. As Wesley said, "I'd like to point out that a former member of the governors staff is now a lobbiest for the drug company that makes the vaccine." Thats a red flag. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Feb 07 - 10:51 AM No, that's a red herring. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Wesley S Date: 08 Feb 07 - 11:11 AM Why would you call it a red herring when the Governor has just handed over a huge windfall to a friend of his? Do you really think that he was motived to do the right thing? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: jeffp Date: 08 Feb 07 - 11:21 AM Since vaccination is a good thing to do, it's probably best not to throw around accusations unless you have some evidence. Do you have any evidence of wrongdoing? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Wesley S Date: 08 Feb 07 - 11:43 AM From the local Ft Worth paper: "The order, made public in a news release late Friday, was met with criticism from conservative organizations and some Republican lawmakers who have suggested that the Republican governor is taking away the prerogative of Texas parents and perhaps allowing his decisions to be influenced by the lobbying efforts of Merck & Co., the sole manufacturer of the vaccine to prevent the spread of the human papillomavirus. "What kind of deal was made?" said state Rep. Jim Keffer, R-Eastland, who joined Nelson at the news conference. Aides to the governor dismissed as "absurd" any suggestion that the move was influenced by outside forces or by the fact that Perry's former chief of staff, Mike Toomey, is a Merck lobbyist. In a statement, Perry said he stood behind his decision because the vaccine will protect women's health." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Bagpuss Date: 08 Feb 07 - 11:58 AM For an example of what spreading unfounded scares and rumours about vaccination can do, look at what has happened in Nigeria with regards to the polio vaccine. Rumours were spread around the country that the vaccine was contaminated with HIV or that it made you infertile. As a result vaccination levels plummeted, resulting a very high rate of polio in the country, at a time when it was looking possible that the disease could be totally eradicated. Similarly, in the 70's in the uk, there was a scare story that the whooping cough vaccine could cause brain damage. Take up of the vaccine fell to below 50% and cases of whooping cough rose, and people died as a direct result of the media whipping up this scare story. Luckily, despite the persistence of the idea that MMR causes autism, vaccination levels have fallen, but not so low as to cause major outbreaks. For anyone (yokel) that doubts whether levels of illnesses have fallen as a direct result of vaccination, I will look out some graphs that show it conclusively and post them later. The lies that are spread by the anti vaccination lobby are criminal in my opinion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Bagpuss Date: 08 Feb 07 - 12:23 PM Here are relevant reports from the Uk showing the drop of the relevant diseases within a year or two of a vaccine being introduced. Scroll down a couple of pages to see the graphs. Measles Haemophilus (HiB) Diphtheria Meningococcal type C See pertussis , and how it flared up in the late 70s after the vaccine rate dropped: Polio |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: jeffp Date: 08 Feb 07 - 12:35 PM So, you have no evidence, just speculation. Other peoples' speculation is not evidence, just as your own speculation is not evidence. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Wesley S Date: 08 Feb 07 - 12:36 PM Define what is acceptable to you as evidence. And please don't speculate. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: jeffp Date: 08 Feb 07 - 12:46 PM Somebody being present at a meeting. A paper trail. Not somebody saying, "I wonder what kind of deal was made?" The kind of thing you can take into court. At the moment, there isn't even probable cause. Just a bunch of questions. No answers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Wesley S Date: 08 Feb 07 - 01:02 PM Has he broken the law? Probably not. I'm not trying to take the man to court. I'm expressing displeasure at the way this governor makes deals. It's typical. I mean - why should I care - right? I have a 6 year old son - not a daughter. I'm not against vaccines even though I have a right to be suspicious of them. What I object to is the way this particular politician goes about doing business. I've lived in Texas for 27 years. We know what manure smells like.How familar are you with this man? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: jeffp Date: 08 Feb 07 - 01:05 PM Not at all familiar. He's a politician, so he's probably at least a bit scummy. I just don't like to see accusations without evidence. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Bagpuss Date: 08 Feb 07 - 01:33 PM Thimerosal and autism: From a Danish study: "There was no trend toward an increase in the incidence of autism during that period when thimerosal was used in Denmark, up through 1990. From 1991 until 2000 the incidence increased and continued to rise after the removal of thimerosal from vaccines, including increases among children born after the discontinuation of thimerosal. " From wikipedia: 2001- The Institute of Medicine, citing insufficient evidence, is unable to prove or disprove any link between thiomersal and autism. However, they conclude that a causal connection between thiomersal and autism is "biologically plausible". 2004- The Institute of Medicine, based on new information from epidemiological studies undertaken since its 2001 report, rejects the hypothetical causative link between thiomersal and autism. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: dianavan Date: 08 Feb 07 - 01:50 PM Here's a good article. Among other things, it says, "Long-term side effects of the vaccine are unknown." It also says, " Mandatory vaccinations in this country so far have been to protect public school students from diseases that are commonly transmitted in classrooms." http://www.dailymail.com/story/News/+/2007020824/Health-agency-opposes-vaccine-bill/ Pap smears are a very effective way of spotting cervical cancer. Maybe its pap smears that should be mandated. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: GUEST,Local Yokel Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:00 PM Give me control of the books, graphs and figures and I'll make a case for anything you want. The govt can't be trusted to tell the truth. It is not in its interest to tell the truth. The listeria spray was begun because 500 a year die from eating bologna sandwiches they left out in the sun all day. The govt told us it was time to put a stop to the "epidemic," and their fix was to start tainting meat with a different kind of poison. 3000 a year die from a highly-treatable form of cancer, so they told us it was imperative that schoolgirls be given an experimental vaccine. Here's an excerpt from a column about listeria by Molly Ivins: "since Bush took office, "there has been a message from USDA that they would give the benefit of the doubt to the industry... Bush administration officials at USDA have consistently made clear they do not believe meat processors must be held accountable for the safety of meat coming off the end of the line. Since November 2001, the undersecretary for food safety has denigrated pathogen testing and zero tolerance. Both the industry and government have put profit ahead of public health." http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=13933&CFID=3165269&CFTOKEN=76863937 So, the federal govt created a problem...higher level of listeria. Then they came along with the solution...dangerous spray-on bacteriophages for meats. This is an age-old method that some people call the Hegelian dialectic, some call the Marxist dialectic. Thesis/Antithesis/synthesis. Problem/Reaction/Solution. With the listeria, federal cleanliness standards were allowed to fall so a problem could develop. People reacted by wanting protection. The solution was to poison the meat of the people wanting protection. And the ultimate power govt can control over you is to kill you, which is where (in my studied opinion) the vaccination programs come in. If you took the polio vaccine between 1962-1999, it contained the carcinogen SV-40. Death by cancer. Anthrax shots during the Iraq war? Death by no-one-knows-what-yet. Injected with Rick Perry's Gardasil? Another unknown, because the stuff hasn't been tested adequately. You can only be so safe in this life, folks, and the LAST people you want sticking you or your kids with needles are the Anglo-American eugenicists. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: jeffp Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:00 PM Detection is not the same as prevention. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Grab Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:05 PM The school children of Texas are now expected to recieve over 40 shots. Each one contains mercury. Most autism shows up after the third round of MMR shots. That's when the mercury overdose occurs, and either your body can handle it, or it can't. The link between autism and mercury is established. In the U.S. and abroad. There's widespread opposition to it in the U.K. One of the ministers even refused to have his kids innoculated. Nope. Either you've failed to read any new information on this subject for the last 3-4 years, or you've only read information from people who've deliberately not told you any new information for the last 3-4 years. Or possibly you're lying, although I'll be charitable and forget that option for now. The link between autism and vaccines has been 100% debunked. The scientist who proposed it *NEVER* said that there was a link, merely that it was worth further research after one study found the possibility of a link was within the statistical significance of the study. Further studies (including a nation-wide "study" in Japan, courtesy of an accident of fate) found categorically that there was no link. This all came out 2-3 years ago. For those who haven't kept up with the news, a good summary at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_controversy. If we're talking about "beating them with facts", it'd be nice if folks actually *used* facts, instead of quoting discredited hypotheses as facts. It'd also be nice if people stayed on topic - as far as I can see, all the posts from Peace and Yokel recently are saying "people lied several decades ago, so they might be lying now". Sure they might be. But suppose you had something wrong with you. Would you rather rely on a whole stack of studies by people with medical training that have been peer-reviewed and replicated in other studies by other people with medical training, or would you rather try random Angelfire pages written by people with little or no medical training? If you prefer the latter, I've got a lovely bridge you can buy... Graham. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Wesley S Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:07 PM What's your solution Jeff? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: dianavan Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:18 PM jeffp - You're partly right. Detection is not prevention. Pap smears can and do alert you to pre-cancerous cells. In the case of pap smears, detection can alert you and surgery can prevent cancer from developing. In most cases, surgery is a cone biopsy performed as a day surgery. It can actually be done in a doctors office without hospitalization. This surgery does not cause infertility. It seems to me that people are rushing into this without considering the long term effects and the precedent that might be set. Why the rush? You'd think this was a pandemic or something. In fact, the cases of cervical cancer are declining, thanks to the pap smear. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: jeffp Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:47 PM To what? The lack of evidence? Watch and wait. If there's something there, it will probably come out. If there's nothing there, there's nothing to solve. All you have is speculation. You don't like the governor, he has a friend in the drug industry, he made an order that will likely benefit his friend, there is medical basis for the order. Does this add up to anything? Maybe. Maybe not. There is really nothing you can do at this point. You may not like it, but that's the way it is. Hollering that the governor is corrupt is not warranted by this. It may be by other things, I don't know. I keep an eye on my own governor. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: jeffp Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:56 PM Pap smears are also not perfect. They can and do miss precancerous cells and also cancerous ones. To get a positive Pap, the pathologist (a human, and therefore fallible) must examine the precise location where the cancer cells are. The surgery must then be complete, leaving exactly zero cancer cells behind. One cancer cell left in the body can lead to a recurrence, and, eventually, death. Believe me. I know from personal experience. Another issue, since so many of you are hollering about cost, is how much does a Pap smear cost? According to a site I saw, pap tests should begin at age 21 or after 3 years of sexual activity. Beginning at age 12 would add a fair bit of cost as well as possibly straining resources, risking a higher rate of false positives and false negatives. It's the false negatives that worry me the most. Easy to happen when a tech is rushed. I prefer to see prevention. Cancer treatment is expensive, debilitating and worrisome. Once you receive that diagnosis, everything is changed, for you and everyone who loves you. Eliminating (for the most part) one source of that heartbreak is a good thing. If a sufficient percentage of the population is vaccinated, HPV and the associated cervical cancers could go the way of smallpox and polio. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:46 PM
It seems to me that people are rushing into this without considering the long term effects and the precedent that might be set. Why the rush? You'd think this was a pandemic or something. In fact, the cases of cervical cancer are declining, thanks to the pap smear. Give me a break! You'd keep going along, hoping that women get pap smears, and if they show signs, let them be subject to surgery that will reduce the strength of the cervix and can compromise healthy pregnancies because of what? Resistance to three shots that can prevent several (by no means all, but the four most dangerous) forms of viral infection that lead to cancer? Accurate and timely detection (sometimes a challenge, depending on the lab) are critical but not always performed. And surgery has far more risks than immunization shots. Surgery that misses getting everything can add insult and complications to the injury. And the women who didn't get the pap smears and who end up with cancer, well, too bad. Those pesky shots were too big a nuisance to have mandated, is that going to be your story? Critical thinking is necessary to puzzle this out, and the excuses for not putting this into effect are a sorry bunch of old rumors that have long since been debunked. Only one company makes the vaccine. So it's not like there was no competition for any reason other than only one company offers it. And Wesley, I'm disappointed--you need to think outside that XY box. Just because you don't need it at this particular time, you would dismiss making it uniformly available (meaning the schools are going to be the gatekeepers for this cancer prevention initiative because what schools want, schools get regarding immunizations for school). There are a lot of "what ifs" that can be tacked onto this to provide good personal incentive to view the vaccine differently. Basically, think of any young woman in your life now and in the future. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Wesley S Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:54 PM "And Wesley, I'm disappointed--you need to think outside that XY box. Just because you don't need it at this particular time, you would dismiss making it uniformly available " Stilly - c'mon - that was sarcasm. Of course I care. That was a reaction to some of Jeff's comments that pissed me off. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Feb 07 - 05:19 PM Okay--I was surprised at what seemed an odd sentiment for you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: jeffp Date: 08 Feb 07 - 07:06 PM New article on autism here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Bunnahabhain Date: 08 Feb 07 - 07:42 PM The article below lays out one of the problems in this area. What is autism? As definitions of what is autism, what is an autistic spectrum disorder, and what is just kids being kids vary between country, as well as detection rates, it become possible to make any case you like by picking figures that support it, and ignoring the rest. It's one of the most common and one of the most grevious scientific frauds going. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: GUEST,Local Yokel Date: 08 Feb 07 - 08:27 PM Wikipedia's a disinformation site. Contributed to by the public and selectively edited. I've made my points on this issue. The U.S. govt has a history of killing and experimenting on citizens and non-citizens. The governor of Texas bypassed the legislative process to bully an unproven vaccine onto children. Vaccines are full of preservatives, dead virus, live virus, recombined virus, carcinogens, "mistakes" put in by the govt-supported manufacturers, etc., etc. If you don't question what strangers are injecting into your kids, then why'd you have them? Decide which vaccines you think your kids should have, then monitor the administration of the shots. Adios. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: ragdall Date: 08 Feb 07 - 09:14 PM Only one company makes the vaccine. So it's not like there was no competition for any reason other than only one company offers it. For how long? I think you'll find, if you check, that other companies will soon release vaccines for the same purpose. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Feb 07 - 10:43 PM If Merck licenses it others would produce it, but this is a brand new big cash cow. Chances are good they'll want to keep all of that cash to themselves. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: dianavan Date: 09 Feb 07 - 01:59 AM "...and the excuses for not putting this into effect are a sorry bunch of old rumors that have long since been debunked" SRS Show me the long term studies of this vaccine. As linked above, "What if there is a segment of the population where the treatment is worse than the cure?" asked Smith. If you want to offer your daughter on the sacrificial alter of science, thats your choice. I'm glad I don't have to make that decision. My daughter is old enough to make her own decisions and so am I. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Bagpuss Date: 09 Feb 07 - 04:52 AM I agree that it probaby shouldn't be mandatory until the long term safety studies are done. There are some underway at the moment. I am not sure that making things like this mandatory is helpful anyway as it just seems to get some people's hackles up. Vaccines are not mandatory in the UK, but most people get the recommended ones done anyway - at least until the media whips up a scare story out of nothing. Re autism levels rising. Although autism diagnosis levels are rising, there is some evidence that most if not all of this is down to better detection and changing diagnostic criteria. I recently read a study which looked at a random sample of kids and screened them for autism. They repeated this several years later using the exact same diagnostic criteria as the first time, and found no increase. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Bunnahabhain Date: 09 Feb 07 - 05:12 AM Vaccines are full of preservatives, dead virus, live virus, recombined virus, carcinogens, "mistakes" put in by the govt-supported manufacturers, etc., etc. preservatives: preservatives are evil, right? Even the common ones like Vitamin C? The oranges are part of the conspiricy too it seems.... dead/live/recombined virus: It's called the active ingredient. carcinogens: Real ones? Just about anything is at a high enough dose "mistakes" If the |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Crystal Date: 09 Feb 07 - 05:19 AM If I was in the age range for getting the vaccine I would be straight down to the doctors to get it done! My friend has just lost her mother to cancer so anything to cut deaths is good in my book, although I have to wonder about the "encouraging promiscuity" arguement, after all it only protects you against ONE STI, there are plenty of much nastier ones out there which WILL kill, rather than MIGHT kill! Not honestly sure about mandatory vaccinations, and surely the kids involved should get some say too, after all they are the ones most deeply involved in this. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls From: Bagpuss Date: 09 Feb 07 - 06:13 AM 100 |
