Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: BTNG
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 12:02 PM

Chris Hillman's a what......???!!

here in his own words is where CHRIS hILLMAN'S at spIritually

from the Triste website dated 2003

Triste: And if you don't mind me asking, you describe yourself as a pretty 'developed Christian', I think, in one interview once. I suppose these songs are meaningful to you on a personal level - something deeper than just on a secular level. Of course, many people sing gospel songs, but obviously they have another deeper spiritual level, don't they?

Chris Hillman: Well, yeah. I'm a member of the Greek Orthodox faith, having been an Evangelical Christian back in the 80's, and then I converted to the orthodox faith. Yeah, I'm very much devoted to that, but I don't get in people's face about it, or try and convert anybody! But it is my own personal belief with my family, and I sing in the orthodox choir every Sunday - sing tenor - which is really Byzantine. Part of the liturgy that they do every week, and so it's a completely different kind of music to what I do on stage, which is bluegrass. And even when we do gospel stuff, it's out of the old Baptist style, and Herb and I do old gospel songs in our show. It's really completely different. And then on Sundays when I'm in town, when I'm home, I sing these very old Byzantine hymns that you would hear in a monastery. But actually, both types of music embrace each other, if you follow me. I mean I get a lot out of the church singing as well as the other. And actually I get wonderful ideas from singing in a completely different style.

Triste: So at church then, you basically sing in the Eastern tradition, obviously. I presume the harmonies are different - different intervals or whatever?

Chris Hillman: Yeah it is different. It uses different musical scales. But it is the Eastern Orthodox Church. As you would expect with the Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Serbian Orthodox, and the Orthodox faith of course, coming out of Constantinople, Istanbul, it is very different you know. But that's a whole other discussion!

and this as well

Hillman actually has little time or patience for Christian conservative narrow-mindedness

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: BTNG
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 12:07 PM

and this about Randy Bachman, again, in Bachman's own words

Bachman was a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. During his early Guess Who years, his religious beliefs conflicted with the sex, drugs & rock n roll lifestyle of the other band members and caused some bitterness between Bachman and bandmate Burton Cummings. Bachman later renounced his Mormon beliefs, saying, "We found some things that couldn't be reconciled," and declaring, "Religion is a bunch of rules, a fear factor.

so.......

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ed T
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 12:10 PM

Gnu, I don't know, not that far off the topic IMO, though it may be on one of the edges of the discussion, like most often happens when threads exceed 100?

Here was the main thread question:""He has the right to make any comparison he wants - but the network still has the right to say they don't want to be associated with his viewpoints. What do you think? ""


Of course they do, it is their dollar, may have been a common sense answer. But, that would have kept the thread discussion # very small.

I agree that he or anyone, celebrity or not, mostly have the right to say what they want. However, why whine when a commercial enterprise is concerned about the impact of their bottom line, and takes what they see as mitigating action. As a commercial product himself, he should know from past cases, that there are consequences in expressing extreme views (over the line) that may offend some clients of the person he kind of represents, and who pays part of his salary.

My "not so drifty" point is, why would the public be so concerned, or surprised, or gives much thought to, the fact that celebrities have opinions, and some that are somewhat extreme and some of them wants to tell folks? After all, some celebrity folks even compared W. Bush to an idiot. Now, that would make a good TV commercial, but not likely to happen:)

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 12:10 PM

Bachmann's view on religion dovetails neatly with that of some of our illustrious Mudcatters.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 12:18 PM

And like them, he appears supremely ignorant of human nature and human history to think that without religion, everything will be just hunky-dory.    Check Hitler, Stalin and Mao--each of whom set himself up as a God-substitute, and encouraged his countrymen to see him as the embodiment of the country--for a rebuttal of this charmingly naive idea.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: BTNG
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 12:35 PM

such a rather nasty patronizing attitude you have Ronnie boy

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 01:01 PM

My heart bleeds for you.   Facts are stubborn things.   If you don't want to grapple with them, perhaps you want to participate in life outside Mudcat.   It does exist, you know.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: pdq
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 01:03 PM

Thanks, BTMG.

I needed those updates on Chris and Randy.

They are obviously enjoying life a great adventure and are changing all the time.

BTW, Bernie Leadon, a founding member of the Eagles, was in Chris Hillman's Gospel Bluegrass group "Ever Call Ready" in the late 70s or early 80s. So was southern California Country-Rock pioneer Al Perkins, all claimed to be Christian conservatives at the time.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: BTNG
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 01:29 PM

there's a huge difference between facts and personal opinion, Ronnie boy, you should really learn that difference. I've read some of you previous missifs here on Mudcat, such negativity as I have never seen, you noth good to say about anything, sunshine...and do please curb that patronizing attitude, it's starting to seriously get on my nerves

pdq

on a far more pleasant note

speaking of Hillman and Leadon check this out, it's a bit rough but a joy to watch

Chris Hillman, Herb Pedersen, and Bernie Leadon in San Diego

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Wesley S
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 01:33 PM

A film about Hank Williams Sr:

The Last Ride

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: BTNG
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 01:45 PM

This forthcoming film on Hank Sr certainly does have it's possibilities

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 03:26 PM

I told all of you what kind of game football is and who it attracts. So why should Jr's remarks surprise anybody? He was there to attract a white demographic that is fanatic about football just as they are fanatic about everything--politics, religion, sex--everything.

This is the kind of demographic that detests Obama because he is descended from a black African father. Just as they detest anybody who is descended from black Africans while they swill beer and cheer on their favorite teams that are 90% black. Then love to complain how some of these guys act off the field but who wouldn't get the time of day if these assholes weren't cheering on his every move on-field.

To them: On-field he's a great player; off-field he's an arrogant, uppity no-good darky just like the president he obviously voted for.

This game doesn't bring out the worst in people, it just attracts the worst kind of people.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Wesley S
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 04:18 PM

So all football fans are racist? Does that include English Football { AKA Soccer } too?

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: BTNG
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 05:50 PM

I was wondering about the vast generalization as posited by Herr GUEST,josepp. I couldn't make up my mind whether to be outraged, or shocked and appalled (not in Reading). I settled on thinking just how ignorant and what a snob Herr GUEST,josepp appears to be

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: gnu
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 05:57 PM

"However, why whine when a commercial enterprise is concerned about the impact of their bottom line, and takes what they see as mitigating action."

I didn't.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ed T
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 06:59 PM

Gnu

Did not mean to ssuggest you whined (or not).

I was answering your somewhat odd "drift accusationz" :)
at the top, and refering to a broader audience later in my post.

Sorry to have not made that clearer.

I was between black-toping my driveway, on an unseasonally warm day, and the washroom (had a few taquila for encouragement to do the job) and stopped by the computer when I repled. I should have been clearer.

Taquila and computers may not mix.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 07:20 PM

Ain't getting into no food fights but I've always enjoyed Chris Hillman... Loved him in the Byrds and Desert Rose Band and everything in between...

B~

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: gnu
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 07:20 PM

Ed... I KNEW you didn't but it may have not been clear to other readers who had not read all the posts so I just made a clarification. No worries. *I* was NEVER in doubt.

As for tequila and posting, I have no idea but I do know tequila is stronger than beer. >;-)

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 02:19 PM

"on my nerves".    Pobrecito.

Well, I did humbly suggest what you can do about it.    I do hope the person holding a gun to your head forcing you to read my posts takes the gun away soon.

I can certainly understand why atheists, "freethinkers", irreligionists, or whatever moniker you endorse are not eager to embrace the truth that atheism has been the worst thing ever for humanity.

And for the reason I cited--it makes it easy for a person to set himself up as a God-substitute.

Which makes dissent a bit difficult, to put it mildly.



And atheists have been responsible for more deaths than anything else in human history.


As for atheism's cultural accomplishments, they seem to begin and end with Frank Zappa.

Whereas religion has been the inspiration for a bit more in the cultural field--like a huge array or wonderful music and art.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 02:20 PM

"array of"

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 08:10 PM

atheism has been the worst thing ever for humanity

There's a whopper! I'm not even gonna ask you to back that one up with reality-based arguments.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 10:39 PM

atheism, or panty hose....depends on your world view.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: GUEST,Josepp
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 11:54 PM

Ron, go take your medicine.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ed T
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 08:35 AM

Would this be censorship?
swastika symbol

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Wesley S
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 10:37 AM

This is from MSN:

Hank Williams Jr. writes song about 'Fox & Friends,' ESPN
Oct. 10, 2011, 5:53 AM EST
NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) -- Hank Williams Jr. is about to have his say.

Williams' has cut a new song "I'll Keep My ..." calling out "Fox & Friends" and ESPN. An interview last week on the Fox News talk show led to the end of his association with the sports network and "Monday Night Football," long home to his "Are you ready for some football?" theme.

He's also scheduled to appear on "The View" and "Hannity" on Tuesday to discuss the uproar that sprung up after he made an analogy that President Barack Obama and House Speaker Rep. John Boehner golfing together was like Nazi leader Adolph Hitler and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu playing a round.

ESPN decided to pull Williams' intro from last Monday's "MNF" telecast after the comments and the move became permanent Thursday when both sides said they'd decided to pull the spot.

Williams wrote the topical third verse of "I'll Keep My ..." when he woke up Friday morning and he and a group of players laid it down in a Nashville studio by Friday afternoon. It could be on iTunes late Monday or early Tuesday.

In the song Williams, son of country music icon Hank Williams, says "Fox & Friends" hosts twisted his words: "So Fox 'n Friends wanna put me down/Ask for my opinion/Twist it all around." He finishes the verse: "Well two can play that gotcha game you'll see."

Early in the song, he says the U.S. is "going down the drain" and says it's becoming "The United Socialist States of America." He mentions keeping "Fox & Friends" and ESPN out of your home toward the end of the song.

Williams' comments last Monday drew unlikely reactions with many commentators and comedians coming to his defense, claiming ESPN was infringing on his right to free speech. His defenders included the left-leaning Whoopi Goldberg and Joy Behar of "The View" and Jon Stewart of "The Daily Show" and on the other side of the political landscape Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh.

The brouhaha prompted Williams also to start selling "Hank Jr. for President" T-shirts on his website.

Williams' theme song has been part of "MNF" since 1989. The song was a version of his hit "All My Rowdy Friends Are Coming Over Tonight" that he altered to match each week's game. He owns the song and all the rights to it, so ESPN will not be able to use it in any way.

Instead, the network says it will use an intro featuring Hall of Fame running back Barry Sanders and soul singer Jimmy Scott prior to the Chicago Bears at Detroit Lions game Monday night. The introduction will change each week.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 11:35 AM

Ron, I wish you and everyone else would stop treating atheism as a separate faith. It's not. It's NOT believing in a deity. Basically, everything done by people was done by people, and belief in God or a god or gods may be claimed by those people as their inspiration, but THE THINGS WERE DONE BY PEOPLE.

I think neither religious beliefs nor the their absence is responsible for the most evil.

I think that badge of shame belongs to the holier/smarter-than-thou fuckwits who get into arguments about who's holier/smarter-than-thou and who has done most good and who has done most harm and CAN'T EVER SHUT UP ABOUT IT. People do it, and people can blame whomever they choose, but it still comes down to the people.

For the record, Hank Jr said it. They've replayed it a bunch of times on various news channels.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: gnu
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 07:21 PM

Well said Jeri. Well said.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 08:42 PM

Bocephus is a redneck gun-nut like a lot of other people, and he has a right to his own opinion. Sharing it on Fox Friends was probably a miscalculation...I'm sure he thought it would go over really well. Monday night Football has every right to can his redneck ass as well, and I'm glad they did.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 08:52 PM

You say something oops-ish in a conversation and people's ears just move along and it falls off somewhere. You say it on any sort of recorded medium, and it hangs around our neck like a dead albatross. Once it came out of his mouth, it was all over. Lots of people lack the brain-to-mouth filter, but they usually aren't in the public eye much... or for very long.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ed T
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 08:55 PM

""Not many people can say they have performed during five Super Bowl openings. I am so happy to have been part of the ABC family since 1989, and with my love for football, this was a win-win partnership."" Hank Williams Jr. quote

So much for family:)

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 10:28 PM

...and of course I'm wrong about not being in the public eye for long. They maybe just don't last as spokesmen for professional organizations.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 09:18 AM

Keep the Change," complete with a clever anti-Obama title, was posted Monday to Williams' website, where he has started selling "Hank Jr. for President" T-shirts.

It's heavy on the America-is-turning-into-a-socialist-state-and-the-president-wants-to-take-our-guns rhetoric.

"I'll keep my freedom/I'll keep my guns/Try to keep my money/And my religion too/Try to keep on workin'/Try to keep on smilin'/I will keep my Christian name and y'all can keep the change," Williams starts.

He goes on tho blame Obama for turning the country into the United Socialist States of America.

Asshole just keeps gettin' worse & worse.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: BTNG
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 01:16 PM

"Lots of people lack the brain-to-mouth filter, but they usually aren't in the public eye..."

For which, to The Lord, I say, thank you....

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 04:51 PM

Not actually having a belief that there is a God isn't atheism, it's agnosticism. Atheism is definitely believing there is no God.

I don't believe there is anyone at my front door right now. But that's just a provisional belief that could be dispelled by a ring of the doorbell.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 04:59 PM

This is what I don't get... Fox ain't exactly a news station... It's a right wing propaganda channel... Right... So what's the big deal here??? I mean, is anyone all that surprised at what Hank, Jr. said??? Hey, he's a redneck... And he's proud to be a redneck... The big question here is why Monday Night football ever4 thought it needed a redneck to pitch their product??? Especially with as many black players that are in the NFL...

I don't put this on Hank, Jr. as much as I put it on the producers who hired him... He is what he is, gol dang it...

B~

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: gnu
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 06:36 PM

And his tune for Monday Night Football was excellent. It was a tune. A song. It got pulled. It was not censorship. He had every right to say what he said. He said it. We heard it. He got fired. Fuck him... he's an idiot.

Argue all you want about WHAT kind of an idiot he is but he got fired. I think "idiot" more or less sums it up.

Nonetheless, a great tune for Monday Night Football. Said it before, I am gonna miss it.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 07:25 PM

Yup, gn-ze... That's about it...

Great tune... Dumb Hank...

B~

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 09:30 AM

"a whopper".    Hitler, Stalin, and Mao, atheists all--look for instance at how Hitler treated any Christians who were not willing to defer to the state in all things--, were responsible for more deaths than anyone else in human history. What part of that do you not understand?

Anybody who does not understand that people should be judged by their actions, not their words, should start thinking.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 09:59 AM

atheists have been responsible for more deaths than anything else in human history.


Its more than a whopper, Oh Simple Seeker After Truth, its complete and utter bullshit.

Where's the "evidence" and "references" you demand of everyone else for your idiotic & nonsensical statement?

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 09:52 PM

Well. well.   

That certainly is an unanswerable argument, full of the calm reasoning and logic you are known for and full of evidence buttressing your case.   I would have expected no less from you,    And taking up your accustomed place in the gutter too.   Situation normal.






Some Mudcat atheists, some of the usual suspects being found on this thread, have no problem making frequent aggressive arguments on religion and the religious. Yet for some reason they object to being called on to defend the conduct of some prominent atheists:   Hitler, Stalin, and Mao.

Gee, I wonder why that is.

And I am neither religious nor atheist. Just a modest-- (I prefer that to "simple"---I'm sure you won't mind) seeker after truth.

Look, it's simple. Either you can defend the conduct of these three--together responsible for more deaths than anyone else in history-- or you cannot,.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 10:05 PM

Your initial idiocy, oh Simple Seeker After Truth, and the point under discussion, has nowt to do with your Unholy Triumverate, and less to do with whether I approve or disapprove of their actions.

Your statement was, and I quote:

atheists have been responsible for more deaths than anything else in human history.

Look, it's simple, Simple. Either you can substantiate - with evidence, not bombast - that line of absolute bullshit, or you cannot.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 08:46 AM

It's very plain--to anyone who can read (perhaps that excludes some atheists)-- that Hitler, Stalin and Mao were responsible for more deaths than anyone else in history.    All three were atheists.   What part of this do you not understand?

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 09:00 AM

I guess its not so simple, Simple, after all.

that Hitler, Stalin and Mao were responsible for more deaths than anyone else in history

According to your statement these three individuals were responsible for more deaths than the combined deaths caused by all other human beings since the creation of the world.

Documentation? Evidence? If its so plain, you should be able to provide it.

HOWEVER, the Terrible Troika is not the point under discussion, despite your dodging & weaving. Your statement was - one more time, since you apparently have difficulty reading- was:

atheists have been responsible for more deaths than anything else in human history.

Look, it's simple, Simple. Either you can substantiate - with evidence, not bombast - that line of absolute bullshit, or you cannot.

By the way YOU named YOURSELF the "Simple Seeker" - & I prefer the original.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 12:13 PM

Now this REALLY hurts - Hogan has lots more credibility than Hank, Jr.
***

Hulk Hogan tells Fox News he recants former support for Obama
By Chris Moody   14 Oct 2011 (AP)

Fake wrestling champion Hulk Hogan supported President Obama in 2008, but alas, the honeymoon is over, Hogan said Thursday during a Fox News appearance.

"I was a big Obama supporter and kinda, like, believed everything he said he was gonna do," Hogan said on Fox and Friends. "But now that nothing's happened..."

Hogan said he was still sore about the president using his theme song, "I Am a Real American" when Obama addressed the 2011 White House Correspondents' Dinner shortly after he released his long form birth certificate earlier this year.

"I kinda was a little upset that he didn't ask me permission to use my music," Hogan added. "But the change of heart is that I think I should be president. I know nothing about politics. I think a flat tax across the board would straighten everything out."

When told that the Hulk's idea sounds something like presidential candidate Herman Cain's "9-9-9 Plan," he responded, "Wow, yeah well he's not a real American like I am. . . . I've been around, people know me, they know everything about me, they know I'm for real, they know I know nothing about politics. I'll just make decisions on what's right or wrong."

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 12:22 PM

Hank remarks do not rank as a remark. It was sound and fury signifying nothing.

1 The 3 stooges had three members not two.

2 Hitler did not play golf.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 02:05 PM

The 3 stooges had three members not two

Or four - Larry, Curly, Moe and Shemp (Only three at a time, but still).

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: gnu
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 02:09 PM

Hitler didn't play golf? Not even mini-putt? C'mon... everyone likes mini-putt.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 02:18 PM

I don't think Hitler played golf. But I do seem to recall an old newsreel which showed him and Eva Braun and various other members of the inner Nazi circle merrily playing croquet on the outdoor grounds of some lovely mansion. Not that it really matters.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 02:23 PM

Hitler didn't play golf or you don't THINK he played golf?? Don't you have any proof for these insane claims? We need proof.And don't photoshop it please.

Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 02:35 PM

Insane, sir??? "Insane"???? You go too far! I take umbrage at that. The claim that Hitler never played golf could perhaps be called "a trifle venturesome", "a tad bold", "somewhat overweening" or even "extravagant"....but hardly insane. Get a grip on yourself.

;-)