Subject: RE: sea shanties From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 25 Jul 16 - 11:20 PM Harry - a search on "matthew brum author sea shanties" gives lots of references to sea shanties (strangely enough!), & one reference to a Matthew Brum who is on facebook, you could check him out if you are on facebook. I go to 2 shanty sessions, one weekly & one monthly, but can't help you with which book is best as I didn't even know how many books he published until I found this list on Wikipedia. The Bosun's Locker, Collected Articles 1962-1973 (Heron Publishing, 2006) Shanties from the Seven Seas (1961; abridged edition 1984) Sailortown (1967) Shanties and Sailor Songs (1969) Sea Shanties (1977) Songs of the Sea (1977) As the world turns & other Catters come on line, someone will know. sandra |
Subject: RE: sea shanties From: Harry Rivers Date: 27 Jul 16 - 03:49 AM Thanks for that, Sandra. If I could afford them, I'd get them all, but for now I need to settle on one which covers as much ground as possible. Harry |
Subject: RE: sea shanties From: GUEST,Gibb Sahib Date: 27 Jul 16 - 03:57 PM Harry, _Shanties from the Seven Seas_, unabridged (1961), is the most inclusive and contains the most items. (I will not say "comprehensive.") Don't expect it to tell you all you'd want to know about the chanty genre, or to give you all the items with historical accuracy (I'm sure you don't), but as for Hugill's works, this is the one that fits your request. That being said, what is in the unabridged edition that is not in the much more easily found/purchased abridged version? Well, the vast majority of extra consists of songs in languages other than English: Norwegian. Swedish, Plattdietsch, Hochdeutsch, French, Welsh... And most of that is not some original "collection" of songs by Hugill, but rather he has compiled those texts from books published in Norway, Germany, etc. So, one can get some French songs from a French-published book on "Chants du Marin" or have them filtered through Hugill. Other extras in the unabridged are reproductions of songs that are, again, not anything original, such as a Stephen Foster song that is the inspiration for a chanty or something like that. Again, not really useful. I'd say unless you are just a completist who wants to have the full Hugill for the sake of it, just get yourself the abridged edition published by Mystic Seaport. Hugill's subsequent books: - The Bosun's Locker, Collected Articles 1962-1973 (Heron Publishing, 2006) This is a continuation of the soft-scholarship in Hugill's _Shanties from the Seven Seas_, bits and pieces of further thoughts and repertoire items that didn't get into the 1961 work. -Sailortown (1967) Not about chanties. -Shanties and Sailor Songs (1969) This is as if Hugill decided he needed a more concise book, after the sprawling and badly organized _SfSS_. Hugill's tone of presentation is much more positive, like "This is what it is" as opposed to the SfSS research tone, "This may be what it is" :) In other words, things are boiled down and put in a positive fashion for readers who don't have time to deal with uncertainties and would rather have things told to them as if they were cut and dried. The repertoire included is selective. If I remember correctly, there is no NEW repertoire that wasn't in SfSS. Also, notably, the subject goes beyond chanties to "sailor songs." - Songs of the Sea (1977) This is more of a popular "coffee table" book. The music notations and lyrics are impossible for me to read due to the color of ink and the cursive writing. It is geared towards Hugill's international audience, that is, making special appeal to non-English-speaking Europeans, with a lot of Dutch, German, Swedish, etc songs. I have a series of YouTube playlists in which I have rendered -- a fancy way of saying I have turned all the ink on the printed page into singing -- all of the items in Hugill's unabridged _SfSS_. The relevant purpose of doing it was just that: to somehow make what is on the printed page audible (even if that means having to fill in gaps or guess at corrections). Make other judgements about my "performances" and their intent at your own peril. It was made over the course of several years with a lot of development/change in style and approach. Anyway, it's a reference point (page numbers linked to Hugill are given) to what you're seeing in the full Hugill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVmCbsMzHrE&list=PL58B55DD66F22060C&index=1 Among the popular sources -- compilations meant for practical use -- of chanties, I can also recommend: Whall - _Ship, Sea Songs, and Shanties_ fourth edition (1920). The tunes and lyrics are accurate. Ignore what he says about the material though. Bullen and Arnold - _Songs of Sea Labour_ (1914). A very good reflection of the repertoire of a 1870s chantyman. However, some of the tunes are notated poorly. Also, beware that they present the chanties honestly, as lacking any fixed text, which means you have to supply your own lyrics -- which you should. Doerflinger 1951/1990. Meticulous and accurate, though not as geared towards practical use due to the descriptive presentation of individuals' renditions (i.e. as opposed to prescriptive). This and works like Sharp (English Folk-Chanteys, 1914) are convenient sources of actually-sung lyrics. My advice... as weird as it will sound... is to read Hugill for the contextual background... then reference Bullen and Arnold for a real picture of the actual repertoire of chantymen... then secure the tunes from Whall... and finally flesh out lyrics with ideas from Doerflinger and Sharp. |
Subject: RE: sea shanties From: EBarnacle Date: 27 Jul 16 - 08:07 PM To the best of my knowledge, Matt has not officially released his collection. A few years ago, he was handing out notebooks of the words from his collection to selected members of the New York crowd and people he ran into at Mystic. |
Subject: RE: sea shanties From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 27 Jul 16 - 10:15 PM thanks, EB, |
Subject: RE: sea shanties From: Harry Rivers Date: 28 Jul 16 - 01:32 AM Gibb Sahib: Thank you! Nothing weird about your advice at all and exactly what I was looking for. EBarnacle: any chance he could be encouraged to drop by with an update? |
Subject: RE: sea shanties From: Lighter Date: 28 Jul 16 - 06:33 PM Hi, all. The 1969 book contains two items (and perhaps an extra stanza or two) that didn't appear in 1961. One is an alleged pumping shanty called "Packet Ship." Though it's in English, Hugill notes it was sent to him by a Dane who informed him it was sung on Danish ships. The story it tells in fragmentary fashion - like that of "Boney" - is that of the Mutiny on HMS Bounty. Hugill suggests that this is one of the earliest chanteys, adapted from Britain by teh Danes, but there's no compelling evidence for this. Another new text (and tune) is a somewhat raunchier and less tuneful version of the "Ratcliff Highway" that Hugill had printed in 1961. |
Subject: RE: sea shanties From: GUEST,Gibb Sahib Date: 28 Jul 16 - 11:06 PM Thanks, Lighter. My mind must have blocked out those items. (Due to my bias! I pretty much hate that "Packet Ship" song!) And I did make some good use of some of the non-English songs while sailing with an international crew recently. It strikes me that Hugill's later work is especially suited for the North/Western European world of sail training, "tall ships" races/festivals, and that whole scene, in which "chanties" and "sailors' songs" blur together like curry-ketchup as an accoutrement of the general "Yay! ships and sailing and striped shirts and stuff!" atmosphere. |
Subject: RE: sea shanties From: Lighter Date: 29 Jul 16 - 12:04 PM >in which "chanties" and "sailors' songs" blur together Haven't they always? One difference between Now and Then may be, however, that the ballad-like sailors' songs of earlier times (both "trad" and "composed") couldn't have been automatically associated, as they are today, with the chantey genre. Few non-sailors knew what a chantey was (hmmm...sounds familiar), and there was no recognition of trad/folk/renfaire genres to unite the two. |
Subject: RE: sea shanties From: GUEST,vectis sans cookie Date: 30 Jul 16 - 12:13 AM Don't forget Roger Abrahams book about West Indian shanties "Deep the Water Shallow the Shore" lovely book. |
Share Thread: |
Subject: | Help |
From: | |
Preview Automatic Linebreaks Make a link ("blue clicky") |