BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 07:50 PM

Apparently you haven't seen the Krinkx picture, f-prince... He wears his "doohicky" on top of his head... lol...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 07:51 PM

Jayzuz, what a waste of perfectly good bandwidth!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: LadyJean
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 09:10 PM

Lincoln considered repatriating former slaves, because he knew that after emancipation there would be a good deal of racial tension in this country.

He was hardly the first. The American Colonization Society founded Liberia in the 1830s as a haven for freed Blacks. Before that, the British sent some Blacks who had served with their army, in the revolutionary war to Africa.

There are few saints among us. Many of the leaders of the American Women's Suffrage movement were nativists and racists. While in England Emmeline and Christabel Pankhurst thought World War I was a splendid idea, and disowned sister Sylvia for being a pacifist.

Last year the Western Band of the Cherokee announced that Blacks, descendants of slaves who had belonged to members of the tribe, were no longer to be considered Cherokee.

Lincoln was flawed, as are we all. But he did a great deal of good in this world, and he knew that ordinary people mattered, something modern Republicans seem to have forgotten.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 09:45 PM

Well said, LadyJean.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 04:29 AM

Gollygoshkins. A fine kettle of fish we have here.
Looks like I came up with an enticing thread.
I hope you are all happy.
WWAD?
(What Would Abe Do?)

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 05:34 AM

Trying to find totally honest politicians or leaders anywhere is a hopeless task now let alone back then! Injustices to any people is abhorent whether it is because of race or as was happening in the Uk because you happened to be poor. But that was the attitude of a time past and hope it stays that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 05:34 AM

It seems everyone is racist to some degree. Prejudiced. Discriminatory.
Regional bigotry. Class hatred. Gender hate.
Have you hugged a Republican today?
=(:-( D)

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 07:12 AM

Its all very well.

But I repeat Henry, can you show any instance in Abraham Lincoln's career, when he

1) wore a false beard
2) farted and said it wasn't him
3) nicked the lead off the roof
4) advertised pension schemes on afternoon television
5) wrote a sitcom that didn't make anyone laugh
6) made up sexy bits to sell his life story
7) embarked on a war and cut the military budget

This I think shows there were areas of great transparency and honesty in his lfe. And that's all any of us can aspire to, and not all that many of us will succeed. Certainly none of the current lot of politicians.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 08:13 AM

I wonder if he was served by slaves at The White House? When were slaves banished from there? I suspect Abe of hypocrisy. I think he took advantage til the very end...
=(:-( °)

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 11:13 AM

I think as good folkies you should question everything the government presents you with. Was Hitler really so bad? Was George Washington really so great? Abe so damned honest? Slick Willie really so horny? W really so stupid?Jimmy Carter really so nice yet lustful? Reagan so brain dead? It all begs the question....
=(:-( D)

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 09:25 PM

Is Prez al-Obama really that black?
=(:-( 0)

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 04:27 AM

Henry - here is what a lifetime of experience has taught me.

1) If we take a step forward, we go forward.

2) If we fart, the gas goes backwards.

3) On BBC Breakfast television, the pretty lady sat on the couch never uncrosses her legs in a way that gives me a sneaky look at her panties.

These truths we take to be self evident.

The insights provided by common sense and experience absolve us from doubting everything.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: frogprince
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 10:46 AM

"the pretty lady sat on the couch never uncrosses her legs in a way that gives me a sneaky look at her panties" "The insights provided by common sense and experience absolve us from doubting everything."

But haven't you ever realized that, if you've never seen her uncross her legs, you don't know for certain that she's wearing panties?

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Nov 12 - 04:55 PM

Sorry if I am repeating something said earlier. There is something in the thread that makes my eyes bleed so I can't revirew it all.

Anyway. There is a HUGE statue of Abe Lincoln here in Manchester, England. He held the area very close due to the support given him and his anti-slavery lobby by the Lancashire Mill Workers who starved rather than work with cotton from the Confederacy.

Lots about it on t'interweb but this article is quite succinct.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Nov 12 - 06:26 PM

God bless the Mancunians and Lancashire Mill Workers, Dave - they stood by their principles despite economic hardship & should be revered & credited for their stance - but you'll never convince the Neo-Confederate, Lost Cause bloc here on the Mudcat.

But you have my thanks and appreciation for setting it out!

Cheers,

Greg

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 20 Nov 12 - 06:42 PM

How do they feel about Chinese cotton?
=(:-( ))

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Nov 12 - 06:47 PM

Who gives a shit, Krunkle?

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Nov 12 - 07:03 PM

They probably wear it all the time, Henry. No Lancashire cotton industry anymore so they are on holiday in the Bahamas all the time...

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 20 Nov 12 - 07:07 PM

Chinese slavery produces it. Where's the indignation now?
=(:-( ))

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 11:30 AM

People are selective in their indignation, Henry. Same deal with apes. On any given day there gotta be hundreds of thousands of things one could get indignant about, but everyone has their few special favorite obsessions, see? So...they just concentrate on those few favorites and they ignore the rest. This is efficient, actually, cos if one tried to get indignant about every bad thing that is goin' on...it would just be too much to handle, and the indignancy nerves in the body would shortcircuit! That would lead to total exhaustion, incontinency, and impotency. A nasty spot to be in! This is why I get indignant, for instance, about specism and about people bein' discourteous to women...but I don't spend a lotta time railin' on about religion or obsessin' over gay rights issues.

Like anyone else, I got a limited amount of indignancy ravin' capability percolatin' around in my system and just waitin' to bombard the ears of any poor sucker who happens to be in range. I gotta make sure I measure it out carefully so as to have enough OUTRAGE left for each one of my "special" favorite issues to do them full justice!

Some would call this hypocrisy. I just call it efficiency.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 11:49 AM

The entire trade imbalance between the US and China comes down to three factors: cheap labor, currency value manipulation and subsidies...

We have some control over these... First, we can choose not to buy Chinese products, second, we can push on China to quit manipulating it's currency with various international law suits...

One of the biggies that we could do is revisit all the tax codes that all but demand that CEOs move their operations to China... Here's my pet peeve on that front... China is perfectly willing to throw a Chinese farmer off the land he works and build a turn-key factory, infrastructure and all and ***give*** it to Boss Hog, Inc. in order to create even more Chinese jobs... Now, if Boss Hog, Inc. were to own that factory here it would be a taxable asset of the corporation and subject to be taxed... However, the factory that Boss Hog, Inc (an American based company) owns in China is exempt from being taxed???

That's just one of hundreds of little loopholes that Boss Hog, Inc's purchased congressmen have put on the books over the last 3 decades...

So, if you don't want to wear Chinese cotton then write yer stenking Congressperson and tell him or her to close down all the stupid job killing loopholes... There are hundreds of them that need to go...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 12:13 PM

Bastards!!!!
=(:-( ))

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 12:59 PM

Ah, but Bobert, U.S. corporations WANT the Chinese to "manipulate" their currency because an under-valued yuan is putting big bucks in their pockets.

Outfits like MalWart have developed supply chains in China that their profits depend on. A rise in the yuan means their costs will increase & profits decrease. Same for GE & all the other outfits that have shifted production to China - means higher costs for them.

These guys - despite the Romneyoid bullshit, will do anything in their power to PREVENT any steps that will lessen the value of the dollar vs. Chinese currency.

More right-wing smoke & mirrors & disinformation.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 01:13 PM

Yup, Greg... That why they have rigged everything so that they make the most $$$... Notice I didn't say that Boss Hog has any major complaints on currency manipulation... I was just talking about what we, as a nation can do... Yes, there are reasons why we don't...

We talk the talk but don't walk the walk...

Hmmmmmmmmm????

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 10:28 AM

If Abe was such a swell guy, how come a drunken drug addict like U. S. Grant was his top man? Couldn't he find a better choice?
=(:-( ))

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 03:56 PM

Just came from Spielberg's "Lincoln."

Brilliant through and through.

Four stars.

Better than anything Spielberg has done to date.

Anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 05:38 PM

a drunken drug addict like U. S. Grant

There goes your proof.

You realy are a complete and absolute ignorant fuckwit, aintcha, Krunkle?

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 04:03 AM

Just Say No
=(:-( o)

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 04:16 AM

General Grant was a drunken bum.
Drunken General

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 09:19 AM

Yeah, Grant was indeed no stranger to the bottle... He wasn't all that great a general or president either... Whether or not he would have been better had he been sober is a matter on conjecture...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 09:45 AM

Yeah, Grant was indeed no stranger to the bottle...

"No stranger"? Which could be said of at least half the officers on BOTH sides in the Civil War, and about the same proportion of the U.S. populationin general at that time. Check the statistics on production & consumption of alcoholic beverages in mid-19th Century U.S.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Abe Really All That Honest?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 09:56 AM

Drunken bum? Hardly.

Grant was a regular drinker in an age when "Temperance" (abstention) was the rule for the insufferably genteel. It was to the advantage of rebels and Copperheads to portray him as a drunk, and they gleefully did so.

Drunken bums don't win wars and don't get elected and re-elected to the Presidency. Furthermore, the lenient terms Grant gave to Lee, on Lincoln's inspiration but not specific instruction, very likely prevented guerrilla warfare after April, 1865.

As President, Grant was victimized by misplaced faith in his corrupt colleagues. His personal honesty has never been questioned. He pushed the 15th Amendment through Congress and won legislation to allow the Feds to prosecute the Klan. What's more, he advocated citizenship and education for Native Americans rather than letting them rot on reservations or be wiped out. He appointed Ely Parker as the first Native American Commisioner of Indian Affairs.

Grant wrote his memoirs while he was in debt and dying painfully of throat cancer. Nobody who's read them will consider "Grant" either a "drunk" or a "bum."

Just some facts for the very few who still care.