BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6

Subject: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Stu
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 05:35 AM

Sorry for the negative post, but I need to get this off my chest:

This also includes the useless prats on the M271, M3, M40 and the M42 on Saturday.

Read your highway code about what the lanes on a motorway are designed for and learn to drive you hopeless, ignorant, miserable idiots.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 06:01 AM

We were driving on the A1 on Friday and I couldn't believe how many people stayed in the fast lane when the middle lane was empty. It meant that to overtake you had to join a long queue or overtake on the inside which is supposed to be illegal but didn't actually seem to matter to some people.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Sooz
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 06:03 AM

Have you heard Harvey Andrews' song "Driving in the middle lane"?

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: s&r
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 06:12 AM

Quote from the Highway Code

"You should drive in the left-hand lane if the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slower moving vehicles it may be safer to remain in the centre or outer lanes until the manoeuvre is completed rather than continually changing lanes. Return to the left-hand lane once you have overtaken all the vehicles or if you are delaying traffic behind you."

My pet hate is the lane hopper who believes that you must change lanes at every opportunity even if you will need to pull out again in two seconds.

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: bubblyrat
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 06:51 AM

My partner does the driving !! Now, SHE tends to stay in the middle lane , for at least two very good reasons. ---Firstly, she is constantly agitated and disturbed by the cretins who hurtle into the "slow" lane when joining at junctions, often without indicating, and certainly with scant apparent regard for anyone on a collision-course with them. Secondly, the "slow" lane often holds numbers of rather dubious-looking contraptions, many of which either drop lumps of mud & bits of whatever they are carrying, Throw up VAST clouds of spray, or emit clouds of black smoke which finds its way into the car. Also, a lot of these wrecks have dodgy lights, and often pull out without indicating ( if, indeed, their indicators actually work ) ..... So, until Plod goes back to patrolling the roads, it"s the middle lane for us, Matey !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Stu
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 07:32 AM

It's not the slow lane, it's the inside lane, which tends to used by slower vehicles.

Middle lane sitters force cars out into the overtaking lane where the motorway lunacy is at it's worst, with owners of penis substitutes hurtling along at insane speeds.

No offence meant to your good lady bubblyrat, but there is no excuse for middle-lane sitting. If you can't deal with cars joning the carridgeway at a junction then you are not capable of driving on a motorway - countering the poor behaviour of other drivers with equally poor behaviour is madness. The system breaks down if everybody just does their own thing.

There are dubious contraptions all over the road network, mud on virtually every road etc etc. Learn to drive properly or stay off the motorway.

You're right about the spray though. Then perhaps I too would sit in the middle lane if it was just wagons on the inside lane.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 08:27 AM

Overtake on the inside. I do it all the time (carefully).

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: jacqui.c
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 08:50 AM

It's surprising how many drivers think that the middle lane is a driving lane, rather than an overtaking lane.

When coming up to junctions I always try to keep an eye on the slip road and, if someone is coming down the slip to join the traffic flow, I will try and move into the middle lane, if it is clear, to allow them access. That seems to me to be courteous and I get annoyed when I am trying to come down a slip road and the driver in the inside lane refuses to move over, even when the middle lane is clear. That behaviour invariably leads to difficulties for both drivers, particularly if there are a number of vehicles coming off the slip.

I've got a lot of experience of the A1 and have too often seen solitary drivers in the middle lane when the inside lane is completely empty. It's even worse on the two lane stretches where there is no option but to undertake because the idiot in the outside lane, doing about 50mph, refuses to move over.

I'm sorry, but I agree with Stigweard - if one finds it intimidating to drive in the correct lane maybe one shouldn't be driving on those roads at all. How does such a driver deal with the single lane roads, where there is no option but to drive behind the 'dubious-looking contraptions'?

When we get behind the wheel of a vehicle we are taking charge of what can be a dangerous piece of machinery. We need to be able to control that machinery for our own and other's safety. That means being able to drive to a competent standard and to be able to deal with the hazards that we come across.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 08:56 AM

I'm also sick of people who think you need a visa to visit the inside lanes on motorways... I'll sit in the middle if the traffic is that way inclined, but I always try to move over if I can.

It's a courteous act, moving over to the middle lane when approaching a slip road, but bear in mind, those coming down the slip road do not have right of way. If you cannot move over, THEY are the ones who should be slowing their speed and adjusting for traffic - the rules still state that you should give way to vehicles on the right, and that includes when joining carriageways.

Sometimes I wonder if half the drivers on the road have even seen a copy of the Highway Code, let alone read it.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 09:04 AM

Alright, I must confess I can't remember where our copy is, but at least I remember some of it, unlike the gits I come into contact with (almost literally) when crossing roads - never enter a junction or pedestrian crossing unless your exit is clear... Ring a bell with anyone???

Didn't think so.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: jacqui.c
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 09:09 AM

Too right Liz.

I took the Advanced Drivers' course - didn't pass but still learned an awful lot from it. Maybe that should be mandatory for all drivers after they've been driving on a full license for a year.

Jacqui.c - running for cover.....

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 09:26 AM

Sorry Jacqui but the reason there is a broken line at the point where the slip road joins the motorway, is to tell you that you should give way to traffic already on the motorway. I am not for a minute suggesting YOU are silly enough to do it, but I have several times had near death experiences caused by people who thunder down slip roads and throw themselves under my wheels as I drive up the inside lane unable to move out to give the eedjit space, because there is someone outside me preventing me from doing so. I often think that this is the prime reason for people inhabiting the middle lane on a permanent basis.
I think the French have the right idea on the Paris Peripherique, where there are road markings as you approach a slip road which you cannot legally cross, and if you are in the inside lane you MUST give way to traffic coming down the slip road.
In general the driving standards in the south of England, and in large urban areas in the UK are abysmal, and as somebody said, it's time the police got off their arses and got out onto the road, instead of relying on cameras to raise revenue, and catch offenders.
Giok
[Ex professional driver]

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 09:38 AM

The three lanes on British Motorways are Slow (Inner) Fast (Middle) and Overtaking (Outer). You should not be in the latter unless you are actually overtaking something. If those who "cruised" in the overtaking lane crossed the Channel and tried the same stunt in Germany I doubt if they'd survive the first day.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: jacqui.c
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 09:47 AM

Sorry Teribus, but the three lanes are Driving (Inner) Overtaking (Middle) and Overtaking (Outer). I agree, in Germay a lot of these drivers would have real problems and my ex-husband found that driving on the Autobahns was a much more relaxing business because drivers obeyed the rules of the road.

Giok - yes, I know what you mean - I have come across those idiots as well. When there is no chance for a driver to move to the middle lane then one has to slow and look for a chance. However, on some slips onto the M25, as I know from experience, it can be the devil's own job to find a space and then you just have to hope that some kind soul is going to slow enough to let you get on without coming to a total stop at the end of the slip lane. There does need to be more policing on the roads and better driver education.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 10:25 AM

I've just been looking for the names of the lanes because I always call the outer lane the fast lane. Anyway I found this on Direct Line's site "British motorway drivers are at boiling point with a quarter experiencing road rage in the past 12 months, thanks to a lack of manners from other drivers".

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 10:29 AM

Complicated by the fact that you all drive on the wrong side of the road, I can't visualize what this driving is that you're describing. We have enough fools to go around over here in the U.S., though, that I can take a guess. Different states here post more or less about how one should treat the far left lane. Traditionally it is for passing. The right lane is for normal travel and the slow-pokes should stay there. They often don't. They tool down the middle (perhaps the same problem you're describing) forcing one to pass on the left (where you're supposed to do it) or pass on the right
(we have a bumper sticker <- passing side | suicide -> )

Good luck!

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 10:35 AM

I can't promise that I have done this link correctly - it is the first time I've ever done one so it's an experiment really!http://www.directline.com/about_us/news_250406.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 11:31 AM

I will, if I can, shut down anyone overtaking on the inside. If I can't, I will phone the police and give their number.

I hate the middle lane owners' club.

I hate the tailgaters. They're usually in works vans, so I take their works phone number off the van as they go by and then phone the factory to try to get them the sack. My Volvo will given space (the final frontier) achieve about 1.8 times the legal speed limit and if I am doing 70 in the outside lane it's for a reason, usually that I am waiting (with an appropriate gap between me and the vehicle in front) for an opportunity to overtake. Anyone who goes past me on the inside and pulls out is reducing that gap and driving dangerously. Why is it they are usually on the 'phone, and driving a black Merc, or a red Beema, or an electric blue Scoobie, too?

Almost more than either, I hate the idiots of either gender who leave their front and/or rear foglights on when it is illegal unnecessary and inconsiderate to do so.   

And finally for this vent, will someone please terminate with extreme prejudice the twonks who if I am waiting in a queue will push up the outside lane and push in at the roadworks and the incomprehensibly irresponsible idiots at the police (and Hamster Hammond, but someone nearly got him) who advocate this? No-one, including Prince Charles or Tony Bliar (ambulances excepted), is important enough to demand that they queue-jump. All power to the truckers who I have seen put such self important idiots through the cones!

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Stu
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 12:04 PM

What sort of car is a Scoobie?

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 12:21 PM

Fink it's a motorbike mate.
G

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: jonm
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 12:53 PM

Scooby = Subaru, majority of Imprezas are electric blue with gold wheels, driven by shaven-headed Staffordshire Terrier owners who think they are rally drivers.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: eddie1
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 01:16 PM

Richard Bridge!
It's all your fault! I was reading this thread quite happily and managing to agree with all kinds of expressed opinions. If the left lane (in the UK) is occupied by a variety of slow-moving vehicles – tractors, earth movers, Santa's sleigh etc etc, then I can see the point of being a CLOD (Centre Lane Only Driver). If however the stuff in the left lane is steadily overtaking the aforementioned CLOD, even worse when the left lane is clear, then I do get a little irate but you, Richard Bridge, had the temerity to remind me of the only thing that let's me approach road rage. These A$%*holes who think their time is more important than mine, that scream up the right lane then expect me to give way and let them in. You get the same in town where traffic lights are shortly followed by two lanes merging into one. That's when I wish I had a car with a strengthened steel bumper going all the way round – a kind of super-dodgem. I'd let them see the error of their ways, the sods!!!!!
Sorry for getting at you Richard. I feel much better now and knowing I'm not the only one who feels that way makes me feel even better.
Thanks

Eddie

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 01:21 PM

Er yes Eddie, they are some of the people I'm complaining about, not what I'm doing....

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Midchuck
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 01:23 PM

No one should be able to pass you on the inside (i. e. right in US and left in Old Blighty). If you get passed on the inside, you're not driving in the proper lane - that is, the most "inside" lane that's available and not blocked by people going slower. Why aren't you?

I used to fight with my mother about this. She always said it was fine to drive in the fastest lane as long as you were doing the legal limit, since anyone who wanted to get by you was a criminal, and had no right to complain. She got very upset about people tailgating her and passing on the right. I tried to remain polite and respectful in explaining my thinking in the matter. Part of the time, I succeeded.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: redsnapper
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 01:44 PM

Let us not forget that other great danger, the irate and righteous driver that cannot abide the slightest human foible or mistake on the part of other road users!

RS

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 02:05 PM

Richard Bridge, what is the usual reaction from the old bill when you call them to grass up someone who overtakes you on the near side? Last week I was moved to do the same thing for the first time (I must be getting old) when I was going round a roundabout in Crosby (a proper one, grass and everything) and some bloody idiot in a Land Rover Discovery decided to drive straight across it instead of round it. Called the police. 'We can't do anything unless you come in to the station and make a statement'. Complete waste of breath.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 02:36 PM

I did explain that Midchuck. I am behind another driver in the outside overtaking lane. I am waiting for him to move to the left to permit me to overtake him. I am leaving a gap for safety between me and him.    He may be doing the same.

The oik comes up the inside and pushes out.

Another scenario, the middle lane owners club are in the middle lane - doing, say, 65. I am overtaking in the outside lane doing say 70 (I'm relaxing that day, or my radar knows there is a speed camera about),

Scooby One flies past both of us in the inside lane.

Sometimes if I phone the Old Bill they do as complained of above. But I know they have an unofficial list. Once you are on it, they watch for you with some care. They often put those complained of on that list.

At least once they have told me "We'll keep an eye out Sir and if anything turns up would you make a statement?" and I say "Yes". Hasn't been needed so far (but I reckon that unoffical list came out).

Once I was buzzed by a Berk in a Merk with German plates, going down the A2. I said to the police "I think he may have been trying to catch a ferry". They said, "Don't worry Sir, we'll make sure he misses it!".

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 03:04 PM

>>Once I was buzzed by a Berk in a Merk with German plates, going down the A2. I said to the police "I think he may have been trying to catch a ferry". They said, "Don't worry Sir, we'll make sure he misses it!". <<

He he I like that one Richard

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Leadfingers
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 04:47 PM

It is ALWAYS better to be a little bit late than to be Dead on time !

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 05:41 PM

He was right so right as he drove along, but he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong!

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: GUEST,Nick
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 06:33 PM

As far as I know here in the states the outside lane is for passing, the center is known as the Travel lane and inside is the slow vehicle lane. Now if you are slower than a car in the travel lane, you get out of it to the inside that car should not have to go to the passing lane to get around you if there is an open inside lane. If you are the only one on the road you are the slow vehicle and therefore suposed to be on the inside lane. But then when in heavy traffic I'm not going to jam on my brakes in the outside lane just because the "Passing Lane" has come to a crawl. Now the four laners are a different story I'd guess!

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Tootler
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 06:47 PM

I had a somewhat vigorous disagreement with my wife over dealing with the middle lane hog on an otherwise quiet motorway. We were on the M1 near Sheffield at the time and my wife was driving doing 70ish. The road was clear for some distance in both directions when we approached a middle lane hog doing 60ish. My wife passed him on the left and when I pointed out she should have moved out and passed on the other side I was told in no uncertain terms I was wrong and she was right. I have since checked the Highway Code and, although my interpretation is that you should move out and pass on the right, we still disagree over this issue.

Even worse is the right hand lane hog on a two lane motorway. I have more than once followed a car doing 55 - 60 in the right hand lane on the A19 when the left hand lane was clear for some considerable distance ahead.

The highway code is quite clear about joining motorways. You should give way to traffic already on the motorway.

The highway code is available on line to check. Click here for the section on motorways.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 06:55 PM

They do have crawler lanes on some roads, specifically for slower vehicles, but unless there's a sign specifically indicating that, the lane on the left (UK) is always supposed to be the driving lane, and the others are the overtaking lanes. (Leaving aside the hard shoulder, which isn't for driving on at all, unless you're an emergency behicle in a hurry.)

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 08:30 PM

In all of the driving tests I have taken (normal, PSV1, HGV1 and Police Class I) the designation of motorway lanes has been numbering from right to left.
When motorways were introduced some pillock of a Transport Minister (Marples) called the lanes Slow, Medium and Fast, instead of using their designated names, hence the names seem to have stuck.

My own pet hate is the moron who follows the nearside lane round a roundabout, to take the second or third exit. It appears that this method is taught to new drivers rather than lane discipline in getting into the outside lane and taking the shortest route through the roundabout.
At the same time why do people indicate right on a roundabout?
There is no right turn.
A roundabout is entered as a left turn onto a major road (give way to the right) and is then a right bend with a series of left turns.
Again, it seems to be that the driving instructors have been giving ioncorrect advice.
Colyn.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 12:01 AM

In Australia, the Law says -

1) keep to the left, unless there are multiple marked lanes.

2) On highways, freeways, keep to the left (lane) unless overtaking.

We do seem to have a lot of 'RLIs" (Right lane idiots)

I do note the hassle with joining slip lanes - I do often try in those places where I know entry lanes are coming up, to move over into the right lane (we have very few 3-laner dual carriageways as yet!) to make life easier for everybody - that's if there is very little traffic.


Recently, some sort of history was made with a motorist actually going to court to fight being booked for failing to comply with 2 above. Btw, that was not clearly stated in most states laws until recently anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Barry Finn
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 01:58 AM

I don't know what you are all complaing about. I took EODTEDT, Emergency Offensive & Defensive Tactical & Escape Driver's Training. It's mandatory growing up in Boston (USA). You have to take it if you want to pull out of a parking space. I always believed you should be able to handle all traffic situations or otherwise avoid the traffic where one can obiviously not drive in. I've only totaled at least 2 cars & 2 trucks that I can think of that I've owned & no one was ever hurt so the training does work. Anyone want the school's address & number?

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: julian morbihan
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 03:36 AM

One time driving along a fairly empty motorway, about 1/4 mile in front of me was a middle road hogger doing about 65 mph, the same as I was. I car came screaming up, passed me, saw the hogger, over took him, then pulled in to the inner lane, slowed down to about 55 mph,let the hogger cruise past him, then he sped up again, pulled into the outer lane, passed him again, into the inner lane, slowed down, cruise past, overtake, slow down, cruise past, overtake for the last time and waved goodbye.

The idiot hogger STILL didn't get the message!

The only answer would seem to be to have all Middle Road Hoggers put down (humanely).

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: julian morbihan
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 03:53 AM

Another thought from Le Continent.

As I now live in France, I've observed with interest the differences in driving style, design and enforcement.

OK so the French (in general) do tend to drive right up your boot but when it comes to road discipline they are much better than the British. They always pull into the inside lane. They indicate their intention to overtake beforehand, therefore anyone further down the queue waiting to pass knows they are going to pull out when they think it is safe to do so.

As to the design of French motorways, they tend to be two lane, a third crawler lane is provided whenever there are likley to be slow moving vehicles.

Slip roads reduce to one lane for the entry and the bend onto the carriageway can be very tight prohibiting overtaking on the slip road and forcing the speeds down.

Enforcement from the Police and Gendarmerie is expected and accepted.

If the Gendarmes consider your driving to be dangerous they have the power to instantly ban you from driving and take your licence (and even impound the vehicle). This applies to British drivers in France too!!!

You eventually get your licence back through the authorities (British Embassy to DVLA) but have been known to get lost in post...

They consider speeding to constitute dangerous driving, over 20 kph over the limit and instant 90 euro fine, over 40, instant removal of licence, over 50 over limit impounding of vehicle.

Be warned!

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 03:58 AM

"I've only totaled at least 2 cars & 2 trucks"

So you reckon your EODTEDT method works and you've totalled 4 vehicles.

Says it all really.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: eddie1
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 04:29 AM

Hey Richard, I wasn't accusing you of doing any of these things. Merely pointing out that you had hit on my least favourite road user. No offense intended.

Eddie

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: jonm
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 04:55 AM

My current charabanc has its fog lights in the main lamp cluster along with dipped and main beam. If you drive with your dipped lights on (always do) and then alternately flash fogs and mains as you come up behind someone, they almost always move over, it looks too much like the flashing pattern on unmarked police cars.

Saturday night, I spent a couple of miles stuck behind a middle-lane hog, driving past an empty inside lane and unable to get out into the melee of the outer overtaking lane, despite flashing lights etc. etc. When the outer lane finally cleared, I was able to pull out and I stayed alongside the hog until we came to another, slower middle-lane hog (not totally sensible, but to give him an idea of the holding-up effect he was causing). What did he do? Pull into lane one and pass on the inside, only to pull back into the middle! I was so stunned I hadn't managed to complete the overtake and pull back in in time to balk him.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: guitar
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 05:09 AM

I don't drive, but my sister doesn't like these 'people' that sit in the middle lane the reason is because they are just a bloody pest, if you don't like driving on the motorway then don't use it.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Barry Finn
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 05:28 AM

LTS
Tounge in cheek, firmly planted.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 05:40 AM

You sound like my sister... she's totalled 2 minivans and a car, all caused by people in front suddenly stopping and ramming into her.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Dazbo
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 05:47 AM

I used to work in a brewery with its own transport organisation. There was much when it was reported that an elderly gentleman, when questioned by the police claimed that the slow lane on a motorway had a 30mph speed limit, the middle 50mph and the fast lane had 70mph. All quite logical really.

It seems laughable to me that many of the people complaining about middle lane hoggers go on about what it says in The Highway Code yet they are quite impervious to the fact that the highway code also states the speed limits that they so frequently ignore. HYPOCRITES!

As for Colyn's bollocks about not signalling right at a roundabout, what fucking planet does he live on? The purpose of signalling is to let the other road users what you are intending to do. Going 270 degrees round a roundabout with out indicating except for a left turn is confusing and dangerous. Has it not occured to him that he's the one that is wrong?

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Dazbo
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 05:49 AM

signals at roundabouts

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Barry Finn
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 06:59 AM

LTS
I had nothing to do with your sister, I don't even know your sister but I do hope she sees when some ones tounge in their cheek she less cheeky about it than you.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Midchuck
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 08:06 AM


"I've only totaled at least 2 cars & 2 trucks"

So you reckon your EODTEDT method works and you've totalled 4 vehicles.

Says it all really.

Liz, what Barry says is entirely reasonable if you've ever driven in the greater Boston area. They're all stark mad. Every last one of them. And the worst is, they come to Vermont. In the winter, to ski. And drive in snow just the same way, at just the same speed....

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 08:07 AM

If people stopped using the term 'slip roads' and started calling them 'acceleration lanes', then maybe I wouldn't get stuck behind some idiot going slower and slower instead of faster and faster when joining the motorway.

I know you have to give way, but if you are in front of the traffic and going faster then you are not 'not giving way'.

Try it. And everyone will be happier. Even you.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 08:48 AM

ha ha Thats a joke trying to get on the M25 at peak times. Acceleration, more like slow stop...............start stop start stop.

However when the traffic is flowing and there are decent gaps, then it is possible to do that.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:21 AM

I was taught that signals were not necessary on roundabouts. and if I wanted to give any signals they should be limited to indicating that I was leaving at the next exit.
The highway code quoted above says this, and the other signals it suggests is those required to get you into the correct lane going INTO the roundabout.
Roundabout discipline is crap in most cases, I have lost count of the number of people I have seen taking the shortest route across a roundabout and in so doing cutting across the lanes, and often the bumpers of other users. Ignoring the arrows on the approach indicating the correct lane for the exit you want is a common failing. Up in Inverness my nearest big town, it seems to be necessary to get in the outside lane if you're turning right at the next roundabout, at least 1½ miles before you get to said roundabout, without signalling of course, and usually at well below the relevant speed limit.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 11:03 AM

. . . all caused by people in front suddenly stopping and ramming into her.

Unless this is poorly written (maybe someone in back rammed into her when she had to stop suddenly?) then I can't conceive how these accidents wouldn't all be her fault. She wasn't rammed if she hit someone who stopped in front of her, she did the ramming. If you're following to close and you hit someone, then it is your fault. That's the way it works in the US. Is it different in the UK? Unless it can be shown that the party in front did some strange maneuver to suddenly insert themselves into the lane in front of the party who hit them, and I imagine that is difficult to prove. It is here--everyone has a different version of the story to report IF you can get any witnesses to stop and make the report.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 11:06 AM

SRS - it is the same in the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 11:14 AM

It's just that the sense of humour in the two countries seems to differ....

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 11:48 AM

Midchuck and Barry - I learned to, and regularly drive in London which has road conditions and drivers that would make even a hard-arsed Bostonian blench. I have never had an accident that involved another vehicle except once when I was distracted and just nudged the vehicle in front in a traffic queue. I have never 'written a car off', nor damaged any other vehicle. Any damage I've caused to our cars has been minimal and cosmetic. I broke a side mounted indicator light once and that was on a bollard. There is a time to drive offensively, and a time for defensive motoring. If you're damaging vehicles, you haven't yet got the timing right.

Stilly - you are right. It's my interpretation of her explaination of how she wrote off the vehicles. In all 3 incidents, she has hit the vehicle in front of her and in all 3 cases, she insists that it was not her fault.

I have been driven by my sister. She has joined the (thankfully short) list of people I will never get in a car with if they are driving.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: guitar
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 11:52 AM

According the to the highway code, if a person stops in front of yuor car and hit it from behind then you are at fault not them, that is the law, however if they hit you then they are a t fault again that is the law.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: guitar
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 11:54 AM

Sorry if people don't agree, I'm just quoting the Highway code and the law

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Wolfgang
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 12:08 PM

jonm,

drivers as you are at least as dangerous as those they try to "educate".

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 12:30 PM

Unmarked police cars (in the UK) have blue lights hidden behind the radiator grill. A detachable blue light may be seen on top of the vehicle or on the front dash. They also have main beam headlights that flash alternately against each other, not against any other light.   If someone is tearing up behind you flashing their main beams and/or fog lights, they are not a police or emergency vehicle and what they are doing is dangerous and illegal as stated in the Highway Code:

"94: You MUST NOT

use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users
use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves to avoid dazzling other road users. Law RVLR reg 27."

guitar - you're correct, my sister was at fault, I've driven enough with her to know that her idea of safe distance is about as far as she can spit. Even her insurance company got suspicious after the third claim and yet she still insists that it was the stationary vehicle in front of her that hit her so hard it broke her radiator. She's another of these 'my way is the right way' drivers, just like our father. I suppose I'm a bit like that but at least I take my rules from a recognised source and not from the 'Book of Shirley'.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: jonm
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 12:57 PM

The key to any "safe" driving behaviour is to leave yourself an escape route or range of options should conditions change i.e. if one of the incompetents around you does something unexpected. Never compromise your safety or that of others by your actions.

I use the inverted commas because I know I push boundaries, but there's 23 years with one significant road accident, IAM and IAMC, PSV1....

.... and in the case of the one accident, a witness following could not believe I avoided a head-on smash at a closing speed (legal) of 120mph when an approaching car made an overtake right in front of me. Even then, I had an escape route which, although the car was damaged, meant that everyone emerged unhurt.

Dangerous, Wolfgang?

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: s&r
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 01:24 PM

I'm with Wolfgang Jonm. The motorway is not the place to teach lessons. If you had been witnessed by a patrol car I fancy you'd have had at the very least a warning. Your opponent was acting out of ignorance or lack of skill. By admitting to your knowledge of driving you exacerbate the danger of your manoeuvres.

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: julian morbihan
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 01:24 PM

How about a sticker made for the rear windown saying "the space in front of this vehicle is for my safety not your convenience".

It might allow me to keep the safe distance between me and the car in front without some idiot hurtling past and cutting in requiring me to slow down to reset that space which in turn slows all the traffic behind too.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 01:40 PM

So you wait until they are near enough to read it and you slam your anchors on. That should do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 01:46 PM

Don't worry jonm, there's always a vicar ready to claim your peccadillo is a mortal sin.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Penny S.
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 02:41 PM

I have been known to slow down as I enter the slip road from REading services eastbound. It doesn't seem to happen anywhere else that I find myself behind someone slow and hesitant whom I suspect of going to stop on the slip road, so it seems best to slow down and leave a good space ahead so that I can accelerate as I move out onto the M4. It must be irritating to those behind who can't see why.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: jonm
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 03:03 PM

I'll bite just once more then agree with Richard - I have to take issue with s&r over whether I'd get a police warning. I'll quote the original:

"Saturday night, I spent a couple of miles stuck behind a middle-lane hog, driving past an empty inside lane and unable to get out into the melee of the outer overtaking lane, despite flashing lights etc. etc. When the outer lane finally cleared, I was able to pull out and I stayed alongside the hog until we came to another, slower middle-lane hog (not totally sensible, but to give him an idea of the holding-up effect he was causing). What did he do? Pull into lane one and pass on the inside, only to pull back into the middle! I was so stunned I hadn't managed to complete the overtake and pull back in in time to balk him."

I flash my lights as a warning, the correct use if I recall (NOT to let people out of junctions or say hello!), then pull out to overtake, which I choose to do at a leisurely pace since we are approaching the speed limit. By the time we reach the slower car, I am alongside and slightly ahead, so not in any blind spot, then continue in the same vein while the other car completes the illegal undertaking manoeuvre. So who gets a tug from the law again?

Admittedly, the last line might have suggested an unacted-upon suggestion of further mischief, but not something I would do in the presence of an idiot like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 03:04 PM

Slough in the rush hour is a good place to get on the M4 :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 10:59 PM

"if a person stops in front of your car and hit it from behind then you are at fault not them, that is the law"


Well persons are not supposed to be wandering around on motorways - but if a car stops in front of your car and hit it from behind then you are at fault not them, as you are supposed to keep a 2 second gap behind the car in front. This gap naturally increases with increasing speed.


This is the Law in Australia, where we drive on the correct side of the road...

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: jacqui.c
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 08:19 AM

I was on the A1, in the inside lane of the dual acrriageway area and driving at just on 70mph. The road was pretty clear for a change. Along comes the speeder in the outside lane, overtakes and then pulls into my lane, leaving very little space between our two cars.

Luckily I took my foot off the accelerator to increase the gap as that was when he spotted the speed camera and jammed on the anchors, bring his speed down to about 50mph. I have pretty good reaction times and managed to avoid a collision, which, in the absence of witnesses, would have been judged to be my fault, since the damage would have been to the rear of his car and front of mine.

I was rather more concerned about the fact that my precious grandson was in the car with me. It's no good me being self righteous about an accident if my grandson had been injured - fault would make no difference then.

IMHO we all need to be driving defensively and to be aware of the hazards that might suddenly appear. I think that we also need to be aware of any problems we have with driving - if you can't deal with driving in congested areas or on dual carriageways/motorways, then don't do it. Is you life, or the life of another really worth taking the risk?

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 08:28 AM

A mature aged learner driver yesterday ploughed into a group of people waiting at a bus stop on the footpath in an Aussie city - 1 dead, several injured, including 2 babies in prams.

"They went everywhere like 10 pins" said a witness...

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Jasmine
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:02 AM

Argh - reading this makes me even more terrified of my upcoming trip to the UK, being afraid that I'm going to be exactly the kind of git you're talking about. My boyfriend (a Geordie who works in the Middle East for most of the year and keeps a place in Devon) is determined that I'm going to learn to drive in the UK this trip, and the prospect doesn't thrill me. I have at least done some (for me) wrong-side driving in Asia and Oz, but I never was particularly good at it. At least in Japan I had a left-hand drive vehicle, which only gave me one change to have to cope with at a time. I found that when I was put into a right-hand vehicle and on the opposite side of the road, I kept wanting to put myself on the left-side white line (as I would be in a left-hand vehicle), which of course resulted in being across two lanes more often than not.

He at least has an advantage over me in that where he is for most of the year is the same road setup as the US, with the only real difference being that they have roundabouts and we don't (another thing that I'm dreading having to deal with). I'm a good driver here, the only accident I've had in 25+ years was where I was stopped at a light and someone ran into the back of me (still not sure how anyone can be quite that inattentive, it wasn't like the light had just changed. We'd all been stopped for at least a full minute when it happened). But I've also got the advantage of a vehicle that is so familiar to me (had it for 8 years) that I don't have to look down to adjust anything, and I'm driving the same piece of road between home and work every day and have been for years. That helps because I know where the tricky bits of road are where people are most likely to do stupid things.

I do at least feel pretty confident of the road rules, they're not all that different to US rules (and people going slow in the fast lane and/or forcing you to pass them on the wrong side is as annoying here as it is there, so that at least wouldn't be something I'd be likely to be guilty of), but I'm afraid I'm still going to be a little scary behind the wheel. Can I get a sign for the car that says "clueless Yank behind the wheel", I wonder?   <grin>

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: jacqui.c
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:13 AM

I've had to learn to be 'ambidextrous' so far as driving us concerned, as I now live in the USA and visit the UK regularly.

My car on the States is an automatic and in the UK a manual transmission. It takes a couple of days and definite concentration on driving to get used to each vehicle when I make the change.

Jasmine - driving in the West Country isn't so bad. Depending where in the USA you are now, you'll probably find the roads a bit narrower and busier there and, the further down you get toward Cornwall, more winding. Kendall got a real education when we went to Cornwall last year!

Until you have a good bit of driving UK style under your belt just don't even think about doing the South East.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Midchuck
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:35 AM

And Jacqui has an unusual issue with driving in the US, with the old fa...I mean old salt in the passenger seat yelling "Keelhaul the mizzenmast poopdeck! Bugger the scuppers!..." etc. at just the wrong moment.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Rasener
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:52 AM

>>was where I was stopped at a light and someone ran into the back of me (still not sure how anyone can be quite that inattentive, it wasn't like the light had just changed.<<

If it was a male driver and it was sunny, he had probably just seen a gourgious looking woman walking by and couldn't resist having a gander. Easily done.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Jasmine
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:59 AM

LOL! No, it was a female in surgical scrubs. Probably a horribly overworked intern who was just tired and possibly had even momentarily fallen asleep at the wheel. Fortunately for both of us, her vehicle was just the right height to hit the spare tire on the back gate of my Blazer instead of the bumper, so there was very little damage to either vehicle.

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: jacqui.c
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 10:05 AM

LOL Peter - not far from the truth. :0)

One of the things I had to learn when starting driving in the States was turning my head to the left to check the rear view mirror. I made a lot of use of the left wing mirror for a while!

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 06:59 PM

At least you knew the wing mirrors were there Jacqui - I've driven with people who think they're to stop things sliding out of the window on curves.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Message to middle-lane sitters on the M6
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:16 PM

I knew someone who kept turning up the radio to drown the annoying funny noise the engine was making - till it stopped with a big cloud of smoke...