BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle

Subject: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Mickey191
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 12:39 PM

Maine
The latest incident of "Muslim outrage" involves a middle-school student purportedly placing a ham sandwich wrapped in a baggie on a lunch table where Somali Muslim students sit. One 14 year-old unnamed Somali student is reported to have said: "At the school the next day, I didn't feel safe. I felt like everybody was against me. Before I felt like I fit in, and everything was normal." The ham-placing "offending student" has been suspended, the Maine middle school is calling the placing of the ham sandwich a "hate crime" and the local police are investigating the child. More charges against the child may be forthcoming. School Superintendent Leon Levesque said: "The school incident is being treated seriously as a hate incident!"

Then, in the true and remarkable spirit of the Kumbaya-for-Islam set, Levesque added: "We've got some work to do to turn this around and bring the school community back together again." Note: Again, 'presenting pork' is only an offense and "hate crime" if it involves Muslims.

AS reported in Liberty Post.Org

Insanity Reigns-What say you?

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Peace
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 12:41 PM

So, I gather the kid din't eat it?

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Arnie
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 12:53 PM

Strangely enough, there is a village near here in Kent,UK named Ham, and it's not far from the seaside town of Sandwich. The signpost with Ham Sandwich on it was stolen so many times that they never bothered replacing it!

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Peace
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 12:58 PM

So a beer to wash it down is out of the question I take it!

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 01:09 PM

"The signpost with Ham Sandwich on it was stolen so many times that they never bothered replacing it!"

This is what we call 'direct action'.

But re: the sandwich incident - you can imagine the look on the desk-sergeant's face when one of these calls comes in. It might make a good Bob Newhart skit:

" ... yes, ma'am ... a sandwich, ma'am ... and it WAS in a baggy? Because that makes a difference ... oh, we DO take these things seriously, people have been KILLED by sandwiches ... "

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 01:40 PM

There is no doubt but that the incident *was* done with malice, even if the student and those who egged him into it were doing it in fun.

All I have to do is visualize how any one of us would feel if someone put a baggy of roadkill or worse beside our plates.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Alice
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 01:49 PM

A trip to the principle's office and an apology to the the Muslim student should have handled it. Getting the police involved.. way over reaction.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Becca72
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 01:54 PM

This may not be a very popular view in some places (I live in Maine, BTW) but I get SO tired of everyone on the freakin' planet claiming to be a victim of something. Sticks and stones, people.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 01:56 PM

I told ya, the world has gone crazy out there!

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Mickey191
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 01:57 PM

Ebbie, Do you think reporting this as a hate crime with possible (I take that as probable) additional charges against this CHILD a proper action?

If the kid had put a dead rat in a baggy and placed it on the lunch table, I doubt the police would have been called. He probably would have been given detention instead of facing the long arm of the law.

Where has common sense gone? The Muslim kid sounds damn well rehearsed with "Soap opera" dialogue!

Our country and others are under seige & these niggling stupidities are changing us irrevocably.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 02:50 PM

I read a report recently of a school that decided to cancel a performance of the 'Three Little Pigs' because they thought it would offend Muslims - a bit like thinking a story about ponies would offend people who don't eat horsemeat. They were planning to replace it with a story about three little puppies. They were totally unaware that Muslims regard dogs as unclean.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: mg
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 02:54 PM

no suspension, no police but a whole lot of sensitivity training, preferably on a Saturday, for the student, the ones egging him or her on, parental involvement and informing the whole student body that things like this will not be tolerated. 14 is probably the age of maximum stupidity in a student and the Somali students should be assured that steps will be taken so this does not happen again and their safety is the chief concern of teh school. What a crock...I have worked in many schools where safety was dead last on the to do list.

I remember when the Cambodian children came to Seattle schools...they were psychologically tortured by other students, who did not realize how bad they were being...they were doing their normal routines of "I'm going to kill you" and other threats they make to each other (or did..I think there hopefully is less than that now.) When the Cambodian children would hear this, having just come from a land where if someone said that they meant it, they were just terrified.

My sister in law and I were driving in Seattle and one day and found a child lying in the street. We assumed he had been hit by a car, had a seizure or something..no..he had been bullyed so badly on the way home he just lay down in the street and I guess couldn't move...

Anyway, it goes back to bullying and students must be stopped and must be made to realize what they are doing. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 03:00 PM

We don't know if there is any bullying going on in this incident, and if there is, we don't know who the real bullies are. Let's face it - we really don't know anything at all about this incident.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: heric
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 03:25 PM

Apparently there was a real story which was spoofed in a parody story, which was then picked up by Fox, which mixed aspects of the two items, with the Fox folks' intent difficult to discern:

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/27/fox-parody/

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: heric
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 03:28 PM

Sounds like a real happenin' kind of town:

"And then last Saturday, Brent Matthews, a Lewiston man who became known for rolling a pig's head into a Somali mosque last July, committed suicide at Marden's parking lot."

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: gnu
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 03:31 PM

".... placing a ham sandwich wrapped in a baggie on a lunch table where Somali Muslim students sit."

Well, there it is. Surely this is an offense against God himself. Behead those who would....

Oh my.... here we go again....

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Mickey191
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 03:54 PM

Our society seems to be caving in to the pressure from PC. Walmarts recently had to reassign cashiers who wouldn't ring up pork products. NOW--don't you think these cashiers knew they'd be handling pork chops & bacon? Of course they did!!! They had to.
The end result is a small victory for them - but does it not spread fear among employers? The fear that if these people's beliefs are not honored that retaliation may follow. A bomb in the night?

What the hell is happening?

Anyone familiar with a great speech given by an Australian politico addressing this problem? It was top drawer-I'm going to search it out.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Mickey191
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 04:39 PM

Got it!!
Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks. A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with g Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that _extremists_ would face a crackdown.
__________________________________________________
Prime Minister John Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques Quote: "IMMIGRANTS,NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians." "However, the dust from the attacks hadbarely settled when the 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming toAustralia."
"However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle."

"This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom. We speak mainly
ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, Learn the language!"

"Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture. We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us. If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others. "This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this.

But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.  "If you aren'thappy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted."

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 04:52 PM

You did check this out, right? It's really hard to know what if anything happened at that school.

"Walmarts recently had to reassign cashiers who wouldn't ring up pork products."

Can you provide a source and/or link?

Ditto re: the John Howard speech.

Sorry, but I'm becoming more skeptical by the day of everything that I don't see with my own eyes. Even things I do see with my own eyes.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Peace
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 05:03 PM

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/australia.asp

Link to the Howard speech from 2005.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: bobad
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 05:05 PM

Here's an article about cashiers at Target stores refusing to scan bacon.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Peace
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 05:08 PM

The pork thing took place in Minneapolis and it was Target stores.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 05:31 PM

Thanks, Peace. The Snopes article confirms the gist of the John Howard speech - although, curiously, the remarks actually quoted in that article are not in the text of the speech Mickey posted ...

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 05:53 PM

The snopes article comes nowhere close to confirming the quotes given above by Mickey191. The quotes above and the snopes article have no relevance whatsoever to the topic at hand, as originated by Mickey191.

The original post by Mickey191 comes nowhere close to presenting accurate facts of the underlying story as they can be ascertained from web-based materials.

This thread is an amorphous fuzzy thing about disdain.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 06:02 PM

"an amorphous fuzzy thing about disdain" - I like that!

"The snopes article comes nowhere close to confirming the quotes given above by Mickey191."

I just took another look at the Snopes article - and I stand corrected.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Peace
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 06:07 PM

snopes.com: Muslims out of Australia!CANBERRA AUSTRALIA: Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in ...
msgboard.snopes.com/message/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/37/t/001035/p/1.html - 140k - Cached - Similar pages

Get out of Australia, 'radical' Muslims told - Sify.comMuslims who want to live under the Islamic Sharia law were told Wednesday to get out of Australia as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off ...
headlines.sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=13924046 - 54k - Cached - Similar pages

Iran Daily - World Politics - 08/25/05SYDNEY, Australia, Aug. 24--Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told Wednesday to get out of Australia as the government targeted ...
www.iran-daily.com/1384/2359/html/politic.htm - 37k - Cached - Similar pages

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of PakistanGet out if you want Sharia law, Australia tells Muslims. CANBERRA: Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of ...
www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_25-8-2005_pg1_2 - 27k - Cached - Similar pages

Yahoo! Answers - TRUE/FALSE? Muslims who want to live under ...5 answers - Yahoo! Answers - TRUE/FALSE? Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia?
answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060826224812AAf5Zfh - 99k - Cached - Similar pages

The Cross of StGeorge blogThree Cheers For Australia Those Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government ...
crossofstgeorge.net/news/blog.php?subaction=showcomments&id=1155599235&archive=&start_from=... - 27k - Cached - Similar pages

Issues and Action - Congress.orgMuslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to ...
www.congress.org/congressorg/bio/userletter/?id=5508&letter_id=1148989686 - 28k - Cached - Similar pages

Three Cheers for Australia | The Conservative BrotherhoodMuslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off ...
conservativebrotherhood.org/?q=node/104 - 26k - Cached - Similar pages




The Snopes article was an attempt to get to the truth of what was said.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Peace
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 06:09 PM

"Get out if you want Sharia law, Australia tells Muslims

CANBERRA: Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks. A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state and its laws were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you," he said on national television. "I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia, one the Australian law and another the Islamic law, that that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country which practises it, perhaps, then, that's a better option," Costello said. Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked move to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should "clear off". "Basically, people who don't want to be Australians, and they don't want to live by Australian values and understand them, well then they can basically clear off," he said. Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spies monitoring the nation's mosques. agencies"

That is quoted from the Pakistani "Daily Times".

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Mickey191
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 06:11 PM

Thanks Bobad- There were 2 other stores mentioned in that link-in addition to Targets who had the same problem. I heard the Walmart Story on CBS Radio News NY. I think it was Nov. or Dec."06. Was unaware of Target & the others-so it may be a movement.

Thanks Bruce - When I read the speech I checked out its veracity at the time-can't recall exactly-but I believe it was a newspaper printout. AS for the Snopes article, they didn't give the whole speech-I have also the Costello quotes And others which preceded the Prime Minister's - but in the interest of space I didn't include the whole thing. I started quoting the sentence which precedes the quoted speech as shown also on Scopes:
Prime Minister John Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.....

The entire article I posted on FindItIreland.com in the political form under "HappyMs"

Is everybody happy now? I'm going to have a cuppa tea & a BACON sandwich!   Ciao Amigos.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: skipy
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 06:13 PM

Ebbie, you said/typed "egged" you have probably upset someone!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 06:13 PM

You were right, youyerself, just more tempered in presentation.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: frogprince
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 06:18 PM

Some student needs a good talking to, and possibly just enough disciplinary action to be sure he takes it seriously. It's Fox
"News" that should be charged with more than one hate crime, for
God knows how many incidents of knowingly pumping out devisive, inflamatory poppycock.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Mickey191
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 06:21 PM

Holy Cow-- While I'm getting material together The natives are rising.

The thing you all seem to be missing is that Snopes didn't have his quoted speech. It had the preamble-the set-up. Do you think I fabricated this out of whole cloth?   

Bruce, Darlin' You chose the correct username- "Peace" A Prince among men. Thank you! Mickey

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 06:29 PM

No not from whole cloth. But it has nothing to do with anything, to the extent some of it is accurate. Hands up those who think there was a ham sandwich, anywhere in relation to any of this. Hands up those who think the kid who got the ham slapped in front of him is a poster child for Muslim outrage and a rsdical proponent of Sharia law in America, as opposed to a kid who just wanted to eat his tuna fish sandwich.

Fox really is an amazing thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 06:32 PM

I agree with those who think that this should have been addressed within the school system. Possibly the Somali student/family involved the law?

I am not vegetarian but lately I have realized that some of those who disapprove viscerally (no pun intended) of devouring other beings may not only be dismayed by the idea but also be revulsed to the point of nausea by the odors involved in handling and cooking meat. Just possibly they have the same reaction to meat, per se, that we "normal" people would have to cannibalism. Just possibly these people are the frontrunners of a complete turnaround in the diets of the world.

I dunno.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Peace
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 06:34 PM

Re the 'egged' remark: I am founder and president of FAD, and while it is not chickens per se that we speak for, they being unable to speak for themselves, they have our sympathies.When we find remarks like that on the internet--blogs, forums, news stories, we quickly respond with the expression from which we take the first letter from each word of our rallying cry.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 06:36 PM

Show of hands - how many people thought Don Imus got the punishment he deserved for calling the Rutgers womens basketball team "nappy headed hos"?

If you you think his firing was justified, do you feel that the charges against the student who left the sandwich was also justified?

If you did not answer "yes" to both questions or "no" to both questions, how do see a difference?

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 06:36 PM

I never thought you "fabricated" the speech - but it did occur to me that you could have copied it from a less-than-reliable source. And you don't seem to know where you got it yourself, if I understand you correctly, so I don't feel like I'm any further ahead ...

Peace: Is the text of the speech given in one or all of those sites?

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 06:43 PM

Ron: I don't think that any charges have been laid/filed against anyone.

I think that a kid just wanted to eat his own sandwich in peace, and is a poster child for a world going crazy all around him.

And even if the Attorney General's office pushes the matter further, don't forget this is a town where pig's heads are rolling down the aisles in houses of worship. Context.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Peace
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 06:49 PM

I'd have to check the individual sites, meself. I think that Snopes got involved because the text as quoted was working its way around the e-mail circuit. Regardless of where Mickey got that from, the facts about it can be found HERE . Incidentally, there are likely dozens of sites with that text, word for word, because "the reason history repeats itself is because historians repeat each other". However, it wasn't duplicitousness on Mickey's part. (Also, the link out-Snopes Snopes.)

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: mg
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 06:59 PM

I would not have fired Imus, although I would have read the riot act to him and his creepy manager, and I would not have involved the police in the ham sandwich. It is was a kid innocently leaving a sandwich down somewhere, just ask them to be more careful in the future. However, it sounds like it was a provocative and offensive act..done as only a 14 year old can do it. Something was called for in terms of teaching him or her that we do not in this school go around deliberately offending people and furthermore, scaring them if they saw it as an act of intimidation, which they very well might have. Chances are pretty good that any people from certain countries that have had hard times recetnly are traumatized..at the very least they have been uprooted. Kids can be cruel to each other or they can be very helpful and it is up to the adults to stomp out any cruelty, intimidation etc. It is the law of the jungle and that is why we have society, to protect the weaker from the pecking order, and believe me, kids of that age will pick each other to death, literally, left unsupervised and untrained. The nonsense about kids having to be taught to hate may or may not be true for 3 year olds, but 13 year olds, whether they hate or not, can very instinctively be brutal to each other, sometimes as a preemptive strike so that they aren't picked on.

This again goes back, perhaps, I am not sure in this case (it could have been a sort of a joke that appealed to a teen) to bullying...it has to be stopped. Grownups have to be grownups. Now, you don't need to overreact and call the police when there is not danger..but you need to do something. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 07:00 PM

>it wasn't duplicitousness on Mickey's part<

I don't think anyone thinks so. It still has nothing to do with what happened here. A kid just wanted to eat his lunch. No facts known suggest that he wants you to be forbidden from putting ham sandwiches in baggies, or to be stoned or mutilated for stuff.

Ron: Oh, now I realize that you probably see it as "hate speech" (Not necessarily as a legal term of art.) Depending on what the facts actually were (!!), I probably do, too.

The kids at that school should (probably) be shown A Bad Day at Black Rock, with Spencer Tracy, and we let this die.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Peace
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 07:01 PM

"I would not have fired Imus"

I would never have hired him. PERIOD!

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 07:02 PM

>Now, you don't need to overreact and call the police <

I don't think anyone called the police.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 07:16 PM

Okay, so correct me if I'm wrong here, people: 1) That speech was NOT made by John Howard; it is a rant that has been circulating on the internet since September of 2001; and, 2) The original post, about the ham sandwich, is 90% a hoax perpetrated 90% by Fox News, and repeated on here, and it is quite clear that none of us here knows anything about what if anything happened at that school; and, 3) a number of people are going to keep this thread going, continuing to discuss and argue about something that for all they know never happened ...

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 07:17 PM

I suppose people would feel just as cheerful about the idea of some young lout doing the same ham sandwich bit to a Jewish child refugee back in the 30s.

Actually they probably would if they'd been around at that time, I suspect. The target may vary, but the mindset remains the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 07:27 PM

Maine is not a perfect state and, yes, believe it or not there are incidents of bullying going on in our classrooms, and it's been going on for years. And, yes, some of the bullying is directed against more recent immigrants such as the Somalies. 50 years ago there was similar bullying directed against French-Canadians. Some thought the bullying was all in fun. Some still think it's fun. They're all wrong when they think that and it takes a whole lot of community meetings and protests to make it better.

In this case the "ham sandwich" was just the tip of the iceberger. A year ago in Lewiston one misquiged soul rolled a pig's head into a mosque where Somalies were praying. He thought it was a joke. They were appalled. He was indicted for a hate crime. Anyone here who thinks this was a "funny" incident, or an over reaction of PC, is no friend of mine.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Peace
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 07:33 PM

meself: That about sums it up. The internet allows for lots of shit to be smeared on lots of people. We see the same thing with Obama and folks capitalizing on the distrust in the US for Muslims. We see the same thing on lots of issues. I think all religions with few exceptions (I say that to cover my ass because although I can't think of any exceptions, no doubt someone will call my attention to one three minutes after I post this) are getting their damned faces into issues that are anything but spiritual, and Muslims today are about as bright as Christians were during the Crusades. I cannot recall who said "Religion cannot be exported" or words to that effect, but that person was right. They are specific to areas in which they originated because for the people in those areas the religion served a purpose. Today, religions are fast becoming a tool to manipulate the masses, and I'm not so sure the m should be on that word.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Peace
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 07:36 PM

As a child I joined a gang because the Eng;lish-speaking kids in my district who were out-numbered by the French-speaking kids need a method of protection that was not offered by the adults around us. I do not hate French people because of it. Was it hate crime? I suppose. Our response was hate, too. So what's new in fifty years?

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 07:37 PM

The whole world needs a big Time Out. Cool off. Geez.

Subject: RE: BS: Ham Sandwich Debacle
From: heric
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 07:38 PM

Charley I am sure that Maine is a perfectly human state, the same as all others.