BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?

Subject: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 May 07 - 12:56 AM

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Classic-Cars/

This looks alarming. Is it verifiable? What are the true details?

It certainly sounds barking mad, for example for older Volvos which I know are passing emissions tests with the greatest of ease (one case I know of showed particulates of 0 ppm!), and which spread their lifetime carbon footprint over 20 to 30 years unlike Daewoos which are usually scrap in 5.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: GUEST,American driver
Date: 24 May 07 - 01:39 AM

This is the future. In America, the global track and trace slavemasters are going to do this eventually, when the cameras and GPS systems are all in place. Or so they've written. All older cars will be banned for "environmental" reasons, but really it's just because older cars don't have the tracking chips and the shut-off circuits in them. The future will be you driving down the road, and the moment your insurance expires, your car will be remotely shut off. But they'll tell you at this point in time that it's "for the planet" or some such crap.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 May 07 - 01:44 AM

Well, you shouldn't be able to drive without insurance (or a licence, or a roadworthy vehicle) anyway, but banning older cars - or universal tracking - are stupid and invasive.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 May 07 - 02:23 AM

Traveling through Eastern Europe, I got a kick out of seeing the old Communist-era cars now being used by kids, often painted all sorts of outrageous colors. I saw a couple of 3-cylinder East German Trabants that were especially colorful. And the old Morris Minors and Sunbeams and Austin-Healeys were great to see in England. It would be such a shame for them to all disappear.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: alanabit
Date: 24 May 07 - 02:40 AM

It would drive people like myself off the road. I can only afford cars, which I can largely fix myself. That rules out anything with high tech electronics etc in it. As I work as a teacher and musician, that would effectively ban me from working. I know one should never undersetimate the stupidity of lawmakers. However, I would be shocked if this went through. Even Margeret Thatcher was not that determined to punish the poor.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 24 May 07 - 03:47 AM

Sounds like another panic to me. I can find plenty of links to the petition, but no evidence of such a proposal.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 May 07 - 04:03 AM

Wonder if anyone has ever worked out which uses more energy and causes more polution - manufacturing a new car or keeping an old one on the road for an extra few years? I would strongly suspect the former and would add the waste of additional resources. Like PMB says though, sounds like another panic.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: skipy
Date: 24 May 07 - 04:08 AM

Then they for the owners of old car,
I didn't own one so I said nothing!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 24 May 07 - 04:30 AM

I've signed the petition.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: skipy
Date: 24 May 07 - 04:35 AM

I too have signed.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: Pilgrim
Date: 24 May 07 - 06:51 AM

I wish we could see how many times this thread has been viewed. It grieves me to think that classic motoring in this country could be threatened not by legislation, but by apathy. Thank you Richard for bringing this to my attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: Grab
Date: 24 May 07 - 07:15 AM

I think it'd have more impact if there were details of the "proposed legislation". As it is, it looks too much like just another fake scare story.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: redsnapper
Date: 24 May 07 - 07:25 AM

This looks like another red herring to me.

RS

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: skipy
Date: 24 May 07 - 07:34 AM

It is there on the Gov. wedsite, click to sign & you will see.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 May 07 - 07:35 AM

Our news about the same theme are very different:

Planned are restrictions on days with a high particle (or pollution) content in the air. On these days, restrictions for some cars (like not being admitted to certain town centers) can be issued. The cars are classified according to how much they pollute the environment. The more they pollute, the more restrictions can be issued for them (depending on the weather, of course).

The "ten year old" bit is some of the usual misinformation the British get about EU plans. The deciding factor is not the age of the car but how much particles and pollution comes from its exhaust. However, the strictest norm can not be fulfilled by most cars older than 10 years unless they get new filters.

In times in which smoking of cigarettes is restricted in ever more places, partial restrictions on cars with high pollution sounds like a good idea to me.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 May 07 - 07:38 AM

It's only th epetition on the website, skipy. There are no links to the actual proposed legistlation, if any. It just says -

Several EU proposals across the years are dangerous to the classic car movement. One that has been under consideration is to ban the use of cars older than 10 years. Similarly, Edinburgh City Council is considering the banning of cars over 15 years old from the town centre. These, and similar, proposals directly threaten the classic car movement, and encourage the manufacture of new cars, with the attendent environmental issues of sourcing raw materials, manufacturing, distriuting and scrapping the spiralling supply of new vehicles.

Hope this helps.

I have signed btw.

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: redsnapper
Date: 24 May 07 - 09:32 AM

The legislation on particle and exhaust emissions applies to new cars put on the market, not vintage cars. Usual disinformation on EU proposals (not all of which are good of course).

RS

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: Bee
Date: 24 May 07 - 09:39 AM

Seems senseless, if true. Attrition(sp?) will solve the problem of ordinary old polluting vehicles, and the classic/antique car owners aren't usually driving the things fifty thousand km. a year.

Vehicles registered as antiques here (Nova Scotia) must get special permits (and a safety check) to drive more than 100 km.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: skipy
Date: 24 May 07 - 09:45 AM

Cheers DP, Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 May 07 - 12:58 PM

Many states in the US have annual emission inspections. Each vehicle that passes carries a sticker.

If emissions are the problem, why not issue inspections?

I agree that this sounds like just another urban legend. It's good to see that it is not just the US that creates scares.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: kendall
Date: 24 May 07 - 01:07 PM

We have a 1930 Ford model "A". I bought it last August, and so far I have driven it 130 miles. Would someone convince me that I'm adding to global warming?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 24 May 07 - 02:51 PM

Does anyone consider the amount of fuel consumed in making a new car?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: Rog Peek
Date: 24 May 07 - 03:17 PM

There have been rumours around for a long time, most of it scare mongering. Any car that was registered in the uk after August 1st 1975, has to pass an emmisions test, and the number of cars registered before this are hardly likely to cause the melting of the ice caps.

There are however enough classic cars out there to bring London's rush hour, or any of the main motorway routes to a complete standstill at will. They wouldn't dare!

I hate to admit it, but it was the Tories who brought in the 25years or older free road licence,(don't get excited all you old codgers, that's the car, not the driver) and Gordon Brown who froze it to pre 1973 cars - yet another stealth tax.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 24 May 07 - 03:48 PM

This goverment is rubbish.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 24 May 07 - 06:07 PM

Sounds like a hoax.
Can you imagine trying to sell a $60.000 car?
It won't happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 24 May 07 - 06:19 PM

The No 10 site is full of petitions - they are a sop to let us think that our views are heeded. Many of them are little more than proof that some people will put their names to anything, and I think this 'old bangers' petition is one of them. Anyone actually got a link to any legislation? Not that such things worry the Daily Mail reader, of course!

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: Mooh
Date: 25 May 07 - 10:14 AM

320,000+ km, the head has never been off the engine, nor has the transmission, it doesn't burn oil, the gas milage is the same as it has always been, under-oiled every year, oil changes every 3000 km or so, runs good and smooth...it's a 1993 Plymouth Voyager.

I'd replace the engine if it were required to make it pass any tests 'cause it's otherwise in great shape (bit o' rust in the body that would easily be fixed. Manufacturers could be tooling up to upgrade existing vehicles which passed some sort of test, couldn't they?

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 25 May 07 - 10:17 AM

Kendall - it depends on where you're driving. If it's down to the Gas'n'Gulp to fill up on those meatball subs, your emissions could be higher than you think... they don't call it the 'Gas'n'Gulp' because it sells fuel...

I think it is another kneejerk scaremongering tactic, badly interpreted and put about by people who sell new cars. We had a perfectly good car that passed all its' emission tests, that was over 10 years old. It was recycled (i.e., we weren't the first owners) and it's been passed on to someone else now we have acquired a newer vehicle. How many new cars have been produced in the 12 years that particular vehicle has been on the road?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: Alice
Date: 25 May 07 - 10:21 AM

Hasn't it been this way for many years in Japan?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: GUEST,American driver
Date: 25 May 07 - 11:26 AM

This has nothing to do with "emissions," people. Doesn't Britain have one surveillance camera for every person now? This is just about more surveillance.

They can't track old cars using GPS systems. You'll be presented with a distasteful option at first--the outlawing of all old cars. Debate will ensue, then a compromise will be reached--you'll be able to keep your old cars, IF you retrofit them with "emissions control devices." These devices will incidentally contain tracking chips. The retrofit devices won't contain kill switches, but at least the government will be able to track and tax you with them.

Say no to big government. That guy with the axe in Australia had the right idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: Greg B
Date: 25 May 07 - 11:44 AM

I say ban them from EU roads! Send them all over here, to glut
the market and run vintage auto prices down.

I'll take an Austin 7, an MG TF, and an Austin-Healey 3000 Mk III
(in two tone black and red, please). All at devalued prices, of
course.

And if it's a real fire-sale going on, please send along a
Morris Minor woody wagon, a Lotus Super 7, and and SS100,
and an E-type MK I 3.8L. Oh, and for going to dinner,
perhaps an early 60's Jag saloon car.

There you go, problem solved. We have lots more air over here
in any case. More surface area, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 May 07 - 11:56 AM

"Doesn't Britain have one surveillance camera for every person now?"

Not damn likely.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: Grab
Date: 25 May 07 - 01:03 PM

Those petitions don't have to have any basis in fact. http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/antiban is a petition to stop "them" banning clay pigeon shooting - AFAIK there's no plans to stop that. http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/fags-and-booze says the government is planning to raise the ages of consent for cigarettes and alcohol - in fact it was an idea from a privately-run think-tank. They don't even have to have a basis in sanity, as the various petitions for knighthood (Jeremy Clarkson, Lemmy, Ozzy Osbourne and Engelbert Humperdinck, to name just a few) prove quite satisfactorily.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=388680 has some more info on this petition from people who might be expected to know more about it. I found it by going to Google and searching for "classic car ban 10 years" - it wasn't exactly rocket science. And as expected, the petition turns out to be 100% organic cow-recycled grass, colour brown, condition moist.

Incidentally Richard and Skipy, I've just found there's a new law coming in saying "No-one can own a bridge". Lucky for you, I've got this bridge for sale - last chance to buy it before the ban! You know it's true because you've just read it on the web. So get those bids in now! ;-)

Graham.

PS. Yes, not only is that a bridge troll, it's also a Bridge bridge troll. Billygoats not included, according to the label on the box...

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 25 May 07 - 09:47 PM

In vancouver we have yearly - emission tests (every two years for newer cars)
and you have to pass in order to renew your insurance.
(it used to be more stringent - they checked a lot of other things too..
and overall id say its a good thing- it keeps unsafe and heavy polluters off the roads.

I understand in Germany theyre quite strict as well, not just emission standards but any rust on your car- has to be fixed..

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 25 May 07 - 11:19 PM

I'll have a bubble car, Thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: Rog Peek
Date: 26 May 07 - 03:00 AM

In the uk the MOT (Ministry of Transport) test is pretty stringent. All cars over 3 years old and test includes condition of body (rust) brakes, suspension, steering, seat belts, lights, w/screen wash and wipe, tyres, windscreen, exhaust system, emmisions(cars registered post Aug 1st 1975). You cannot re-tax the vehicle without an MOT certificate.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on cars over 10 years old (EU)?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 May 07 - 03:06 AM

Curiously, according to the petrol-heads site, the petition is based on a misrepresentation of the actual position. Some cities are restricting (or planning to restrict) city centre access for polluting vehicles, but allegedly there is no EU master plan. I wonder...