BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?

Subject: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 11:36 AM

To invest in who and what we love is hardly an expense at all, but the cost of fear is both non productive and destructive.

I have recently found my neighbors fear very expensive.

As all politics are local so are irrational behaviors.

My neighbor lives in a continual loop of fear and repeats the behaviors that reinforce fear and self supports her paranoid premise.
We can hear her police scanner from the sidewalk and see motion dectors on the side of her house with lights pointed in our yard.
While I have compassion that she is a former victim of domestic violence and is now divorced, I also see how she enjoys in some way the attention of being a perpetual victim even when there is no offense.

insert Ebbie's outrage here-->

She uses her ex husband as a guard dog to attack perceived perpetrators out to get her. He is more than willing to try to regain her affection and is unwilling to move on after 5 years of divorce. He will be the hero if he affirms her perceived threat and claims credit for the protection she requests , despite that fact this is the same bi polar guy who beat her.

Who does she think is out to get her? Me, her neighbor 30 feet away with floor to ceiling picture windows that look out and down onto her house.

Our first interaction was 3 years ago when she hired men to cut down all the main branches of my Sycamore tree up to forty feet high which were 19 inches in diameter, stretched gracefully 40 feet over my lawn and weighed over 2500 pounds. By law she was only allowed to cut the ends of branches that crossed the property line but she ordered the men to cut them back to the trunk.. She even had them come back 2 days later after I ordered them to cease and desist.

Now my house sits starkly without the lower limbs and now gives an unobstructed view of 3 houses into our backyard that were formerly shielded by the Sycamore.

I complained, but to get along I did not sue or seek county government relief.
Now the yard was more open and kids in the neighborhood began to play ball there.
Her dry rotted rail border fence broke one post as a result of the kids.

She ordered me to fix or replace her fence and stop the kids from playing in my yard.
While she was on the phone I asked 3 times if I could put up a higher section of fence so that our refrigerator, sofa, computer desk and dining room table was shielded from the view of her back porch kitchen and dining room. Thankfully she said she didn't care.
I eventually complied by fixing her rotted post and put up a sign that said keep off the grass –


Of course the kids protested with eggs on our windows and spray paint but nothing dire.

Then my neighbor sent her ex husband over to tell m to take down the keep off the grass sign.

He returned again when I started to raise the fence 16 inches higher. "What's with the fence dude?" "It looks like the projects back there" etc.
so I asked him to leave and leave us alone.

They (each of then said they didn't) called the county and had an agent come to my house and issue a violation of the 6 ft 6 inch fence height zoning code. He tells me a maximum $500 fine or a variance appeal that costs $400 to file plus survey and photos.

I stated the variance procedure and have spent 4 hours so far in the zoning office and preparing the paperwork. When I took pictures of the affected area for the appeal my neighbor called the police claiming that I was taking pictures of her and not her back yard .
She does not appear in the picture of the back yard not did I see her until she came out of her house yelling at me for taking a picture. Thankfully I was not arrested but her ex husband did make one more visit. …This time at 2:30 Tuesday morning when he urinated on our front door and welcome mat.
Thanks to my dog I saw him leave and later found his cigarettes and empty pack by the sidewalk.

While walking with my son she came up to me and the neighbor who just returned from Spain and said I was taking pictures of her and that I liked to walk around naked and that the children need to be protected etc.

I wish good fences made good neighbors. I wish she hadn't cost us so much money for the privilege to be her neighbor. I wish my welcome mat did not smell like pee.
They have a little girl and we have 2 little boys who are starting to be effected by the growing mania.
Yes she is mean, yes she is fearful but short of me calling the police or suing her for property value depreciation – what can I do?

Subject: RE: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 12:27 PM

Call the cops and call a good lawyer. That's what they are there for.

There is no reason for you to put up with such harassment and it's high time someone shut her down.

You should have done this when she cut the limbs off the tree -- having the workers go onto your property made them trespassers and her the instigator of the trespass.

Her ex-husband should be arrested for on, at the very least, a health code violation.

Also, she needs help. She obviously have a number of unresolved "issues."

Do it now or the bullying will continue.

Subject: RE: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: Bee
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 01:11 PM

Rapaire said it all. You indicated you were willing to put up with her BS when you let her get away with the tree problem and further when you dealt with her fence.

You don't usually have to be rude to get along with difficult neighbours, but you do have to be firm from day one. One of our neighbour's sons junked a car in the empty lot next to ours. We didn't even call him. We reported the junked car to the RCMP and let them deal with it. When he wanted to do something on his property that would have affected us adversely, and for which he needed our signature, we said no, in spite of being warned that he was vindictive. Ten years later, we've had no more problems with him, because he knows we won't cave.

Subject: RE: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 02:30 PM

"Ebbie's outrage"... hmmmm. I'm not even sure what the outrage would be directed to. Mostly, the times that I have been outraged at you was when my perception was that your imagination and your knowledge were at odds with each other.

Subject: RE: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 02:34 PM

I agree with Rap and Bee. Don't let it go any further. Some of this nonsense is within the bounds of the local law officers, particularly peeing on your property and trespassing to damage your tree. Give an inch and some will take a mile.

Subject: RE: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: Sorcha
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 03:44 PM

What Rap and Jacqui said. Just do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 11:33 PM

sorry Ebbie, I know you take the woman's side on issues and quite frankly there has to be a woman's side to every story which I could easily pass over without thinking.

Maybe a woman who has been beaten may have such trauma that she can no longer effectively commuicate with men.

I sometimes think I may have a presonality flaw like a kick me sign on my back.

I have prepared a far more coherent letter regarding the situation that I can present to a lawyer.

Subject: RE: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 12:42 AM

I've never been beaten. Got slapped once though.

Subject: RE: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 01:57 AM

Actually, Donuel, some people do seem to attract a lot of abuse from other people...and it's not due to any conscious intention on their part. I think it's due to more subtle things like their subliminal beliefs about themselves and about life. Or you could call it karma.

I attracted a great deal of abuse from other children when I was a youngster, for instance. I was not aware at the time that there were patterns in me that were setting me up for it.

I'm just speculating in a general sense, not saying that you are necessarily like that...but it might be a factor, I suppose...

The situation you describe with your neighbor is anything but pleasant. I hope you find a good way of dealing with it ASAP.

Subject: RE: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 06:57 AM

I think you're right LH.

I had the same sort of problem as a child and young woman. I think sometimes it's a lack of confidence that builds up - it can be overcome but needs a conscious effort to do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 02:26 PM

Yup. Lack of confidence in oneself attracts bullies like roadkill attracts flies.

Subject: RE: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 03:09 PM

I had that demonstrated once. A co-worker from time to time showed up with bruises; we told her she didn't have to put up with that kind of thing. She eventually left him and they were divorced. She then started going out with a guy I knew. Guess what- he slapped her around.

The end of her story wasn't so much fun. She got into drugs. Died of an overdose, aged 31.

Subject: RE: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 05:04 PM

If she is peeking in your windows to see if you walk around naked, she should be arrested for being a Peeping Jane!

Subject: RE: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 05:37 PM

She obviously needs Donuel. He fullfills a yawning emptiness in her life. ;-) The question is, does he need her?

Subject: RE: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: Mickey191
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 05:59 PM

I give no advice on this. My parents had a common driveway with a neighbor. There was no end to the grief it caused. The woman next door was a nut of the first order. The law put 2 stakes in the middle of the gravel driveway. Next day she had pulled them out. They went away for a week & upon return-all the windows on that side of the house were shot out with a beebee gun.

So going to the law made the situation worse. The decision must be weighed carefully. My parents sold the house right after the beebees.

Good Luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 03:34 AM

I can see exactly what 'Ebbies' outrage' would be, indeed, I had gathered a few choice comments myself - but for once Don, you're right. Some people do take it upon themselves to be the eternal victim. The mere fact that she remains in apparently close contact with the abusive ex-husband shows that. The security lights, motion detectors, removal of low hanging branches and the paranoia about taking photos of her suggests she has serious issues with a fear of stalking/attack - although why she should, when she actively invites her former attacker into her house, is beyond me.

I would suggest some form of mediation, someone in authority and seen to be so - a uniform cop or something... but unfortunately, we're geared towards protecting the victim. Because she has been the victim once and is apparently adept at acting so now, she will gain the sympathy of anyone who hears her story, whereas you are both victims here.

Hindsight being 20/20, you should have called the cops the first time the tree fellers stepped onto your property without your permission, contacted their firm, informed them of the law and sued for damages.

I think you have to take the bull firmly by the horns and file a police report. Get yourself a lawyer and make your side plain before he gets her version. Things will get worse before they get better so you need to protect yourself against reprisals. Have a motion detector light fitted to your porch so that if the ex wishes to use you as a urinal, he will be illuminated (a light to lighten the genitals). Have several throwaway cameras handy so that you can take photographic proof of misdemeanors on your property. Stand at your window and take a photo of the view - it should show just how exposed your view is - and reiterate that it was her cutting of the branches that made it thus. If you have a picture of the tree as it formerly was, that is useful, as it will indicate just how much more restricted the view was.

As far as I'm aware, even in the most restrictive of States, it's still not illegal to walk around in your own house nekkid, nor is that considered exposure to your own children. To be able to see you doing this, she is looking into your property, making her the offender.

Sometimes, perpetual victims are worse than bullies. Everyone likes to take the high road and put a bully down, but you're not allowed to be nasty to victims. But, like bullies, they need to be brought up short and made aware of how their actions affect others. Someone who goes into a situation with the intent to be the victim, will inevitably always become the victim. She's in a downward spiral of 'crying wolf' that will eventually lead to a sad, lonely life, hated by all but other victims. Sooner or later, she really will be attacked, beaten or robbed. Who will give her credence then?

Good luck with it.

Failing that, you've got a good case for that TV show 'Neighbours from Hell' to present!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 02:56 PM

You can also purchase, from hunting stores like Cabela's, motion detecting digital cameras. Normally these are used for photographing game animal trails, but there is no reason they couldn't be used to photograph folks who pee on other people's porches -- or trespass, or peek in windows. And take it from one who knows, cops LOVE good clear photos! Just be sure to hand the undeveloped film (if film is used) to the cop and get a receipt for it -- that preserves the chain of evidence. I suspect a nice printout of a digital photo would be acceptable in court as long as you didn't offload the picture from the original camera.

Some examples are here.

Subject: RE: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 05:52 PM

Years and years ago, we lived in the country -- we bought an old farm on 40 acres and planned to live a 'Mother Earth' type of lifestyle. Good thing we tried it or I would have spent te rest of my life fantasizing about it......but I hated every blade of grass on that 40 acres. But we had bought the house so didn't have a lot of choice. One of the reasons for moving out there was a craving for quiet -- one night we were kept awake by the neighbors' dogs barking literally all night. Called over the next morning to be told they weren't her dogs, they were her boyfriend's dogs (what the hell difference that made.....). We were bathing our daughter that night when he knocked on our front door and told us if we ever complained about his dogs again he would burn our fucking house down (and I quote).

As I hated the country, hated being at home with a small child, hated not working etc etc this visit quickly helped us make our decision which was to get the hell out of town. We moved back to the city, I started to work again (yes!!!!) but it took us a while to sell the house. So we rented it out to someone we knew just a little. Sitting in Portland one Sunday morning, we saw the name of our old town in the paper and the word MURDER next to it. Turned out the person who owned the neighboring house was having an affair with our tenant. The boyfriend (he of the -- call again and I will burn your fucking house down) had cut the phone wires in the house, and shot randomly through the front door killing our tenants ten year old. Have never quite had a cheery comfort over neighbors ever since and am so grateful that we have lived in the same house for 20 years with the same great neighbors on eachside............

Subject: RE: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: Bee
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 07:11 PM

May I just note that rural Canada isn't super prone to murderous neighbours, though it does happen...

Yikes, Truebrit!

Subject: RE: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: Alice
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 09:14 PM

wow.
all I can say is do what Rap said.

Subject: RE: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: GUEST,harpgirl
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 09:24 PM

Yes, Don you are wearing a "Kick Me" sign on your back. Now, it is up to you to go back through this sequence of responses and see what you did wrong in creating such negative responses to YOUR reactions. That's what you have to do to stop playing "Kick Me".

Subject: RE: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 10:41 PM

Yikes is right -- totally true story! The guy is still in prison........

Subject: RE: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 11:09 PM

Damn well should be, too. Preferably for the rest of his life.

Subject: RE: BS: Love or fear: which is most expensive?
From: Mickey191
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 01:24 AM

That poor child-terrible story. Hope the guy dies in jail.

Seems like the onus is being put on Donuel. He tried it both ways--so how is he creating negative responses by his reactions? The woman & her sometime husband are negative creatures-If little Mary Sunshine brought them a homemade pie--they'd have it tested for poison. There are some problems which have no solutions.

I had a neighbor who gave off bad vibes. One day I very politely asked if I'd offended her in some way & to tell me please. "Nothing YOU did--I just don't like redheads." What was I to do in the face of such stupidity? Not a damn thing--I just ignored her for 5 yrs. One night at 2:00am she knocked - please help my husband-I think he's having a heart attack. I helped. He lived. She still gives me the evil eye.

It's so stupid - it's funny.