Stealing gigs from the pro's

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 12:09 PM

>>What happens when the big names retire?<<

Most of us will probably be dead by then LOL

Bring on the Kerfuffles and Mawkin:Causleys !!!

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: GUEST, Anon
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 11:58 AM

Hi Vilan - yes I know, and you do a grand job!

Not all clubs are as 'concert orientated' as yours though, and I should have added that some don't actually need to do all that because they do have a loyal core, or just because the personality of the organiser is enough to make it all work (that's quite common too).

It's the clubs where it doesn't, or where they're constrained to only booking sure-fire names, or only local acts, to the detriment of the long-term viability of the existing guest/foorspot system that I was addressing.

Just to be even more topical...

A friend once said to me that quite a few organsiers are keen performers, so are actually only interesed in booking people who'll pull a big crowd for them to play to.

There may be some truth in that and I'd not be the one to cast the first stone. If I was ever to run a club (and I think about doing so often, specially when the gigs are not going so well!) that would be my motivation too.

But it begs the question I raised earlier.

What happens when the big names retire?

PS Hi Santa - point taken, but if you'd been assured that the guitarist was going to give you a great evening because they're a great performer, and maybe had some proof in the form of a review read out at the previous night or endorsements from people you respect, you'd give it go, wouldn't you? I do hope so!

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: Brendy
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 11:47 AM

There you go...

If more clubs thought a bit more like that, maybe they could afford the Martin Carthy's and Vin Garbutt's of this World a little more often.

B.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 11:35 AM

For what its worth

I publicise in local newspapers, put posters up in various places, post on various websites, use local radio, run my own website with all the info, hand out diaries at each event of future gigs, as well as word of mouth and flyers put through doors in the local village where the events are held.

I consider that is all part of what an organiser should do. Whats the point of booking somebody and not letting the world know.

On top of that, It also helps if the performer lets their fans know etc.

We had 80 last week, sold out for Flossie in December, already selling tickets for January and February.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: Brendy
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 11:17 AM

"If not enough people turn up to pay for the guest, organisers just have to live and learn."

'Learn' being the operative word.

That business model went into the recycle bin years ago, Santa.

People want to go out to be entertained.
You have to make them want to come to you.
Get the local heads around you, and explain to the people that it is our club.

Create that sense of community, and the community come to you.
It's just like E=mc2
It is a proven formula.

B.

B.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: GUEST, Anon
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 11:01 AM

I don't run a club TheSnail - but I do make my living in them (as you should have seen from my posts above) and am actively and fully involved in the promotion of folk music in the UK by other means (and not just my own career).

We touring musos see it all. It's sometimes blindingly obvious why some clubs thrive and some don't - it's just that as guests we're in the wrong role to advise the failing ones where they may be going astray (though I try to give tactful advice whenever it seems appropriate), specially when we're staying with the organisers who are almost always really nice people (and often good freinds now) - specially if we've just had a bad night with a poor turn-out and we're all a bit raw about it.

Which club do you run then?

Incidentally it's mainly because I don't know who you all are that I won't use my name. I may need to ring you tonight for a gig, or even be playing your club tomorrow.

But I'm not Anon just to protect my ability to blag gigs off you and the others here. If you knew my name the debate might soon become personal, and so would loose much of its value to us all. (And I do think it's being very valuable, even if you think we're wasting our breath).

Also I have band members and colleagues to think of. They might not approve of me making such comments, as it could impact on their careers too if my name was known - but I do believe this discussion is vital, and that people like me, who have day-to-day experience of the root problems right across the country (which few club organisers do), should be able to speak freely.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: Brendy
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 10:52 AM

Collect the e-mail addresses of every person that comes through the door ... ask nicely, of course..., and send the ever increasing throng a bi monthly newsletter.

That way you not only get bums on seats, you get the right kind of bums...

B.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: GUEST,Santa
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 10:49 AM

I don't agree that it is the folk club organiser's job to contact all the known fans of a particular artist within some specified radius in order to advertise the gig. I rather doubt that most organisers have that kind of level of information - and wonder if it would breach the Data Protection Act if he/she did!

If not enough people turn up to pay for the guest, organisers just have to live and learn. I suspect that most leave some leeway for experimentation: I don't know this act but it's worth giving it a try. I know ours does this.

There also seems to be an attitude amongst some here that totally neglects the audience. Different people like different things, and will or will not show up according to their likes and dislikes. An organiser should be prepared to vary the style and range of guests at a club. This guarantees that all "members" will NOT turn up every week, and they should not be expected to. Tonight is Gracenotes, and I wouldn't miss them. Next week is a guitarist, and I'm a bit iffy. I wouldn't suggest the club restricted its bookings to my tastes, and I would object being expected to turn up regardless.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 10:15 AM

It has actually been down to the professionals to promote themselves,[e. g.Jez Lowe amongst others, sending out a monthly circular to his fans as to where he will be playing].when it should actually be the organisers responsibility.
other pros,pay for space with adverts in folk magazines,some like myself use the internet to promote ourselves.
when I first started going to folk clubs they were all full,regardless of the guest,most clubs had a membership system which encouraged,people to come back regularly, once they had joined,the organiser had a list of names and adresses.
So the organiser, knew, who in his locality was interested,and could contact them to find out why they were NOT coming any more,or to keep them informed of future events etc.http://www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: Midchuck
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 10:01 AM

If sufficient people don't turn up, that's not the failure of the performer, but rather of the club organiser who made the booking in the first place, and who was in a better position to know who might draw in people, and to do the things that might help in ensuring that.

IMO, it's both.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 09:53 AM

>>If sufficient people don't turn up, that's not the failure of the performer, but rather of the club organiser who made the booking in the first place, and who was in a better position to know who might draw in people, and to do the things that might help in ensuring that.
<<

Couldn't agree with you more MoH

I must say though, its bloody difficult turning a performer down when you know they are very good, but doubt they will attract enough bums on seats for the style of club that you run.
This is where honesty comes in. If the performer is not what you are looking for - tell them and tell them why. You are not being rude to them. I think theer is nothing worse than a performer playing at a club, that is not suitable for what they do. That is the organisers job to explain the style of club and if you think no, then say no.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: M.Ted
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 09:43 AM

Snail--I am sure that your performers receive the best compensation that you can give them--and I don't mean to be critical of the way that you handle your affairs. My initial comment was really an observation, not a suggestion.

I will rephrase my point--If there were a lot of opportunities to earn a solid, steady wage by performing folk music, more would enter the arena, more would stay with it, and the music would be enhanced.

The $64,000 Question, of course, is, "How do you make that happen?".   There certainly are a lot of ways to do it, but the real question is, "Who wants to?"

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: TheSnail
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 09:24 AM

So which club do you run, GUEST, Anon?

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: GUEST, Anon
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 09:02 AM

This is THE most important point yet raised in this or the other thread:

"I don't see why we should guarantee an artist against their failure to bring in an audience"

countered by

"If sufficient people don't turn up, that's not the failure of the performer, but rather of the club organiser who made the booking in the first place, and who was in a better position to know who might draw in people, and to do the things that might help in ensuring that."

If there is one single factor in the decline of the professional folk circuit through the past ten years, it's this belief by organisers that it's down to the artist to draw a crowd. Yes, many artists will and that's great, but if everyone only relies on the draw of reputations that were built elsewhere, who is ever going acquire a reputation?

This over-reliance on draw, by people who - in fairness probably don't have the time, skills nor inclination actively to Promote (a dark art in itself) - has led to the current situation, where only well known names and local heroes can guarantee a full house in many - perhaps a majority of clubs.

It's entirely understandable, given that the average club organiser is an enthusiast for music, not a skilled promoter, that this situation has arisen, but it's still a terrifying prospect for the future of this wonderful institution.

For if it continues, where are the draws of tomorrow to come from?

Yes, some youngsters who've been (briefly) media darlings will bring in a few curious people, but everyone else - between local star and big name - will wither and die like so many have before.

I'm not saying that organisers don't promote. Most do - and some do it very well, but some don't relise quite how much effort is involved to do it properly.

Ok, if they did they might just close the club (eek), but they might also get stuck in, get their team motivated, and find that in itself promotion can be really rewarding.

You need three types of audience to make sure every club gig will work (apart from booking good guests, of course).


1) You need ALL your regulars to turn out every time. That will only happen for a new name if they trust the organiser's judgement and are willing to try something new (which far too many seem not to be).

2) You need your atists' local fans to come. That IS down to the artist, but even top qulity full time pros may not yet have as many fans in your area as you assume, and there may be other reasons why the fans they do have may decide to give your club a miss and see that artist somewhere else another time.

3) You need floating folk fans in your area to give it a try. For that you need a great website with links from places where these people surf. You need a presence in the folk mags and local papers, and if possible local radio, and you need a reciprocal leafleting arrangement withh all the other like venues in the area - including libraries etc.

It has to be a team effort - and if a good team is properly motivated and managed they can achieve terriffic results - there are plenty of places where all this happens all the time - God bless them!


FInally you need to make sure the environment is right - to make sure that 2) and 3) come again. You need comfortable seats, pleasant lighting (how many clubs have bare bulbs just above the stage? - people may not notice but they won't come back), a safe environment where they don't have to run the gauntlet of drunks or grim, dead pubs, a REALLY welcoming smile at the door, the right ticket price, and floor spots that are appropriate for that act. (Oh and good beer - and a snack in the break, a really easy way to create instant welcome)

It can be done, it often is, and when it is, you can book anyone you like - and get a full house. Every time

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: Brendy
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 08:11 AM

I'm self-employed over here, matt m.
I have have my own company, and the tax (although a higher %) is worked out in much the same way.

B.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: GUEST,matt m
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 08:08 AM

Corporate sponsorship is all well and good, and certainly merits discussion. I almost regret referring to it though because I want to make sure my main point doesn't get lost here: that on the cottage-industry level, the self-assessment income tax form can actually be unexpectedly useful.

I have to fill one out once a year anyway because of earnings for freelance writing and (music) journalism. But I play gigs as a musician. I also put on gigs for myself and others. So I gave myself a company name and description that covered all these interests. Any losses in one activity are expenses absorbed by the tax I pay on profits from a different one. I would recommend any other 'multi-taskers' do the same.

Maybe if you just put on gigs as a 'serious hobby' one evening a month alongside your PAYE day job you might not think it worth the hassle of getting on the self-assessment form treadmill – but if you were serious enough to be planning on doing so for longer than a year I'd still recommend it.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 08:02 AM

I don't see why we should guarantee an artist against their failure to bring in an audience

If sufficient people don't turn up, that's not the failure of the performer, but rather of the club organiser who made the booking in the first place, and who was in a better position to know who might draw in people, and to do the things that might help in ensuring that.

Personally I'd hate to run a club, especially these days.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: Brendy
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 07:47 AM

Carlsberg and Tuborg fund quite a lot of free, live music in Denmark, especially during the summer.

We have a fairly good relationship with themselves, and Guinness, whose Head Office for the Nordics is based in Stockholm.
The Drinks companies set up these concerts each weekend in one of the major towns in Denmark, and the line-up consists of 4 or 5 up and coming Danish bands, and one headliner.
These are free concerts.

When we put on the Festival in Marstal every year (next year's will be our 6th), Carlsberg & Guinness are normally fairly generous.
Money is one thing, but product is quite another. We have a few outside bars scattered around the main venue.

Cultural activities in Scandinavia are Tax-Free, and every year Bórd Fáilte (Tourism Ireland), and The Embassy of Ireland in København give us their full support.
Certainly parts of the festival are liable to tax (alcohol sales, etc), but the main income isn't, and this means we have a small amount to put into the following year.

So far the festival has paid for itself, with a little spare every year for the budget for the next. None of us, however are 'taking a wage' or anything like that.

I have noticed over the years Festivals and venues falling on their arses purely due to the greed of people who want to take every spare penny (and the rest) out of the kitty.

B.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: GUEST,matt m
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 07:41 AM

OK then, with a few additions too:

As a promoter, I would recommend other promoters treat putting on gigs as taxable income. Even if it's not your main source of income (even if it's not a source of income at all – perhaps even especially so in this instance). Room hire charges and performer's fees are claimable expenses. Do it properly, and fill out a tax return every year. If you have to fill out a tax return already (eg for any kind of freelance work) and you promote gigs, then doubly so. And if you are a musician as well as a promoter, then even more so (as the amount of claimable expenses can include musical instruments, travel etc).

I often think it's a shame that private companies/investors don't put on concerts as a tax loss. It'd be brilliant for the live music scene.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 07:27 AM

Guest, quick, type in some sort of name for yourself and repost! Totally anonymous messages have been getting zapped lately - I was sorry to see a lot of them go - and yours is too good to lose.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 07:23 AM

As a promoter, I would recommend treating putting on gigs as taxable income. Even if it's not your main source of income (even if it's not a source of income at all – perhaps even especially so). Room hire charges and performer's fees are claimable expenses. Do it properly, and fill out a tax return every year. If you have to fill out a tax return already (eg for any kind of freelance work) and you promote gigs, then doubly so. And if you are a musician as well as a promoter, then even more so.

I often think it's a shame that private companies/investors don't put on free concerts as a tax loss. It'd be brilliant for the live music scene.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: TheSnail
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 04:44 AM

M.Ted, your original suggestion was "If the wages were higher all around". So you are saying I should build up a reserve to pay people more by paying them less?

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: joseph
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 03:59 AM

I never read such bull**** in Ireland the cream of musicians come together and play for free. Just for the love of Traditional music and Irish songs. Its my opinion if your good enough and prepared to travel you'll get plenty of work. Always remember that demand controls the market and the price

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 03:49 AM

and in the business world, no one questions your right to a share of the till.quote
Except the income tax man.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 10:14 PM

The question about how you get more money has had an answer, not the only one, perhaps--but a good answer. You must build up a reserve, so that you can grow and improve--every good employer knows that in the long run, the better wages you pay, the better, and more consistant the work that you get is.

Some of you performers here seem to think that the house must give you every penny that is taken in, or you are being robbed. The fact is that the house is entitled to its share, which it is entitled to spend as it wishes, including paying other performers for other engagements--when you operate a venue, you must plan for, and invest in the future. A performer who demands the seed, so to speak, to my mind, both greedy and short sighted.

For a lot of my performing career, my day job was in advertising and marketing--and the principles in both worlds are the same--though managing a folk music venue is more challenging because aesthetics, rather than profit is your guide--and in the business world, no one questions your right to a share of the till.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: Leadfingers
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 08:06 PM

Nettlebed (45 mile drive) is a concert club - but most UK Clubs have floor spots

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: Brendy
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 07:49 PM

I would think, on the face of it, that it might only need a little extra consideration of the local community and hinterland, and the scheduling of that to make it function like you would like.

B.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: RTim
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 07:29 PM

The question has not really been addressed (I don't think?) about what sort of Folk Club we are talking about here?
Woods Hole is a Concert Club - ie. The guest(s) appears and NO ONE else! There is NO opportunity at that club for local performers, no matter how good they may be, to perform.
I was brought up in England where the clubs had Floor singers AND guests, so that local singers/musicians had a some sort of avenue to play - and in my old Southampton club, if you were a resident singer, once every year you got YOUR night with a budget to invite who you wanted and providing you didn't overstep the budget - it was OK.
I Like that sort of arrangement better than a Concert club - because I feel it is more in keeping with the idea of Folk Music.

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 06:24 PM

>>...even if that was a good situation...it takes time to get there, any suggestions what I do i the meantime with a new club? <<

Make sure you give them value for money and you do your homework on the artists you are booking. Keep to middle of the road performers in the beginning. Your audience are coming to be entertained whether they pay £3 or £15 to get in.
A smile on the face of the person greeting people and genuiness of wanting to look after your customers and your performers.
Over time, hopefully your audience will begin to trust you and keep on coming.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: RTim
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 06:13 PM

I don't run the club, but I believe each Guest is guaranteed a percentage of the door if their agreed fee is not reached as part of their contract, and they also get community accomodation as part of the contract. They are also fed before each concert in a resturant across the street from the venue. So some MAY? take a lower fee because of that. Certainly, many many guests have appeared many times at the club over it's life, Bill Staines has been every year!

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: Leadfingers
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 06:08 PM

Maidenhead , one of the better small clubs in Southern England , has Two ticket prices ! A Singers night is half the price of a Guest night , so the Guest gets the agreed fee , even if there is only The Committe there on the night ! And the quality on a singers night is 'Orrid High !

And Banjiman - All you can do is hope you've got it right , in so far as Residents , parking , beer , accessibility and acoustics are concerned !

And I wish you success !

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: TheSnail
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 06:07 PM

RTim, do you pay all your guests the same or are you effectively stealing from the cheaper ones to pay the more expensive?

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: Brendy
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 06:05 PM

The 'folk business' has moved house to the 'service industry', and marketing is very important.

I see what the Captain says as the ideal, surely.
But there are those that are achieving it.

I'm not talking necessarily about England, here; nor Scandinavia, neither for that matter.

It's a frame of mind by the venue owner and those around him/her about providing that service. Geography has nothing to do with it.
If you present it properly, and nurture it, then your chances of building up a decent venue increase.

The tweed coat brigade have long left the building.

B.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: Peace
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 06:04 PM

The place I referred to charged the same cash at the door regardless who the performer was. The performer was paid 50% of the gross gate receipts. The manager had such a good rep that (to my knowledge) no one ever asked to check the gate or did an independent count of the audience.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: TheSnail
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 06:02 PM

Maybe we should let Dick argue it out with Greg with whom I largely agree except on the guaranteed minimum. We do our legwork. I don't see why we should guarantee an artist against their failure to bring in an audience (or to compete with the fake orgasm contest).

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: RTim
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 06:01 PM

The Folk Society here in Woods Hole has the SAME charge every occasion (it is bi-weekly over the months excluding Summer, when it closes) - irrespective of the guest - and it is now in its 35th year - So it goes to show it does work.

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: oggie
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 05:54 PM

Sorry Captain but in the real world (as opposed to the one we may like to see) you can get more people to pay more money to see Vin Garbutt than to see (say) Pete Coe. That may change but in the here and now it's a fact and Vin's rate is higher and so is the door fee. The fact that I'd rather see Pete is irrelevant to the economics of keeping a club afloat.

I also don't see why (as implied) an organiser should use their own earned money to keep a club afloat. The folk business is a "business" if you don't like it get out of the kitchen but you can't change the reality by wishing it were different.

Steve

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: Brendy
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 05:50 PM

With respect, TheSnail, it is not Dick's job to tell you yours...

B.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: Banjiman
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 05:46 PM

Captain Birdseye

The best CLUBS ,are those where the organiser has nurtured a loyal following,and people will turn up every week regardless,TRUSTING THE ORGANISER.


...even if that was a good situation...it takes time to get there, any suggestions what I do i the meantime with a new club?

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: TheSnail
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 05:41 PM

Captain Birdseye

The best CLUBS ,are those where the organiser has nurtured a loyal following,and people will turn up every week regardless,TRUSTING THE ORGANISER.

Name those clubs Dick. I've never come across one that sells out every week. In the real world, we have to balance our books.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: greg stephens
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 05:39 PM

Cap'n Birdseye: you might like to live in a world where we all pay the same prices for all artists, irrespective of their allure. But this is the real world, and in the end I am always going to spend more to see the Stones than the Counterfeit Stones. It's the way it is. It's like wine, I'm afraid. Some is worth £2.99 to me, some is worth £9.99 to me. After that, I don't bother.
   To be fair, I rarely pay to see people, I can generally wangle myself in.But I just paid a lot(£25?? can't remember) to see Ladysmith Black Mambazo(sp?). Well worth it.But I wouldn't pay so much to see (OK no, names, no packdrill).

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: Brendy
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 05:31 PM

"The best Clubs are those where the organiser has nurtured a loyal following, and people will turn up every week regardless, trusting the Organiser".

That's about the height of it, really.

B.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 05:30 PM

No, Ivor - "pro's" is an abbreviation for "professionals" - and that is what the apostrophe means in this case, it indicates that letters have been missed out.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 05:25 PM

stealing gigs from the professionals,the apostrophe denotes something has been left out[ofessional].

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: Peace
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 05:25 PM

It was much like that at a certain folk club in Montreal at one time. However, even so, some people drew more than others despite the cost at the door remaining static.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 05:23 PM

No,please be honest, its what you the organiser ,[under pressure from an agents demands]decide ,what they are worth,not the audience.
Attendance at aclub can be affected by a number of other factors[whether there are any festivals on]television[world cup etc]etc ,it is not entirely down to the booked artist,
The best CLUBS ,are those where the organiser has nurtured a loyal following,and people will turn up every week regardless,TRUSTING THE ORGANISER.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: autolycus
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 05:15 PM

Hope this hasn't been said already.

Thread correctly - stealing gigs from the pros.

Simple plural.

    Ivor

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: TheSnail
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 04:55 PM

Captain Birdseye

Why should a /club be different?

Because a club generally books only one paid guest at a time and the audience will pay what THEY judge that guest is worth. We can't force people to turn up regardless.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 04:45 PM

Snail,[imo]as explained ,a bad system.
Festivals charge a weekend price[many of the artists are paid differing amounts]but it is not reflected in the ticket price,the audience is free then to make its own judgements,solely on the merit of the artists performance.Why should a /club be different?
what you are doing is similiar to handicapping in horse racing,and is totally unfair on the lesser priced guest artist.

Subject: RE: Stealing gigs from the pro's
From: TheSnail
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 04:34 PM

Captain Birdseye

If there is one thing I detest its this sort of pricing,in my opinion folk clubs should charge the same price for whoever is the guest,regardless of the artists fee.how the folk club finds the fee is the organisers problem,but you should not be insulting guests[who may not need/or prefer not to use an agent]by implying their value is less,because the door price is less.

Dick, artists fees are paid for from ticket sales. Higher fee, higher ticket price. Simple.