KFFC under threat potential pub closure

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: theleveller
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 03:40 AM

Paul, I'm really impressed by your obvious hard work in salvaging the event and I'm sure everyone who's coming owes you a big 'thank you' - and a good few bevvies as well.

We'll try and get there for 12 to help with the marquee - depends on the traffic on the A1.

In the future, we'll try to get to as many weekend events as we are able - your hard work deserves everyone's support.

I think it's going to be a great day! Hope Wendy's worked out her part for 'Jack and Jill' - really looking forward to that.

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Banjiman
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 02:50 AM

Skipy,

The smoking ban is undoubtedly ONE (but probably not the major) factor of many that has led to the demise of our pub....and I say that as a smoker.

More important to me is the that we have an alternative venue and that we can continue the club, even if we still have some challenges to overcome.

Paul

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: skipy
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 05:54 PM

Some of you need to get off your soapboxes & talk to a few landlords, but you won't do that will you because you don't want to hear how much the ban has effected so many of them.
Clubs & pubs are closing as I predicted ages ago & a lot of you attacked me like rabid savages & made me unwelcome in the "folk world" well it's coming home to roost on your own doorsteps. Please remember ALL I wanted was 25% of pubs to be smoking for the 25% of us who smoke! We "the U/K" are a democracy, aren't we?
Skipy

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Banjiman
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 03:26 PM

I thought I better post this here as well:

As many of you are aware there has been a threat of closure hanging over the KFFC venue, The Black Horse, Kirkby Fleetham, for a number of weeks. The pub will now close on June 11th.

Are we down hearted?…..well a bit, as it has been an excellent venue for the Folk Club and February's Winter Warmer Weekend.

Will it stop the music?.....of course not. We are changing the June 21st afternoon from a "farewell/ save our pub" afternoon to a "Welcome to the Village Hall" party. We have run gigs in Kirkby Fleetham Village Hall before and it is also a fine venue. It means that the barbecue will be easier to manage as it has its' own kitchen and grounds.

The afternoon concert and singaround (1pm- 8pm, free) will now be run in a marquee on the Village Green, next to the Village Hall (Tai Chi until 4pm in the hall, hence the marquee) and the evening concert with John Conolly & The Doghouse Roses will be actually in the Village Hall (8-11.30pm, £5).

The ancient rite of "Marquee Raising" will take place at midday…it would be great if a few strapping lads (and lassies) could turn up for this. Please let me know if you can.

As we only found out today that the pub is shutting this week we do not have enough time to apply for a drinks licence, therefore please feel free to bring your own. I will be buying quite a lot of beer and wine and if you would like to share in the cost of this (and drink some of it, of course!), just bring some money on the night. For those of you coming for the afternoon, the village shop also sells beer and wine.

If you are bringing your van/ caravan, I have negotiated to allow you to continue to use the pub car park, but there will be no over night facilities, so please bring your own! If you were expecting accommodation at the pub, I am busy trying to find you somewhere to stay with some of the locals, bear with me, but be confident!

….and the future?

Club funds are healthy and attendances have generally been very good, as long as this continues we will try and continue!
The current plan is to shut the club for July & August and re-launch in The Village Hall (or The Black Horse if a sympathetic tenant takes over) on September 20th with The Grand Re-opening Party with Roger Davies as the main act and Wendy Arrowsmith with Blind Summat as the support, £5. (A note to the acts booked for July & August, if I haven't already spoken to you, I will re-book you for a slot at some point next year assuming the club survives the transition OK).
We will then continue with the planned acts on the planned evenings; October 18th 2008: Dave Gibb + Sue & Dave Swales + Pearson Clan. December 13th 2008: Vicki Swan and Johnny Dyer + Phil Drane January 24th 2009: Brother Crow + Kathryn Davidson & Dan Walsh.

At this stage I will have to post a major warning re the Big Birthday Bash Weekend in November and Winter Warmer Weekend II in February as the Village Hall is not a suitable venue for these types of events. I will make a decision about these by the beginning of August and keep everyone informed. If we can use the pub or find a suitable alternative venue I will go ahead. If not, I will salvage what I can from the line-ups and run either a club night or a 1 day special event…..unless anyone has any other bright ideas?

We will definitely be looking to run weekend events sometime, somewhere and obviously look to re-book as many of the excellent acts that we have lined up as possible.

So, we'll see some of you on the 21st and hopefully everyone else at some point in the future.

Paul

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Banjiman
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 02:55 PM

Thanks John......no problem, as you say we have many people wanting a spot, though it would have been good to meet and hear you especially looking at all the positive comments on here.

Actually, I've just heard today that the pub is actually going to shut on Wednesday this week, therefore June 21st will take place in the village hall and in a marquee on the village green!

I'll be posting full arrangements later.

Paul

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Harmonium Hero
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 11:44 AM

Whoops!
Hi Paul. I didn't really think this would happen at this late stage, but one of the ceilidh bands I play with now has a booking on 21st. I can't afford not to do it, so I'll have to back out. I'm sorry about that - I was looking forward to what looks like being a great day, but it doesn't look as if you'll be short of 'turns'. I'll keep an eye on developments and hope I can get there in the next couple of months. Best of luck for both the club and the pub. John Kelly.

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Harmonium Hero
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 11:37 AM

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Banjiman
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 08:08 AM

Anahata,

It is my intention to try and run the Big Birthday Bash.

All we know for sure at the moment is that the current Landlord is leaving and that the pub is not a very attractive proposition for other new tenants due to the rent that the Pubco who own it want to charge.

We should know in the next few weeks if the 1/ if the pub is to shut 2/ if a new tenant is to take over, will they want to carry on with the folk club and planned weekends (fyi, we have a bunch of guests booked for the club nights as well).

If either of these things work against us, we will initially move to the Village Hall for club nights (it is provisionally booked from the 21st onwards).

Unfortunately the village Hall would not be suitable for the Big Birthday Bash in the planned format. Which would leave us with the options of finding a new venue or changing the format. I will make some decisions around this from mid July onwards.

Please bear with me on this.

Paul

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: treewind
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 07:13 AM

Paul, Is the big birthday bash in November equally under threat as the regular club?

I mean, obviously if the pub closes down it won't happen there, but would the plan be to hold it somewhere else or to cancel it?
The difference being that there's a bunch of guests booked, of course...

Anahata

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Banjiman
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 06:51 AM

Hi Duncan,

I'll even buy you a pint if you bring your guitar (or even borrow one!) and sing us a song. Be great to see you if you are around and thanks for your words of support.

Leveller,

Tis a tiny world indeed!

Paul

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: HipflaskAndy
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 06:03 AM

I'm sorry to hear of the pub's plight....
and consequences to the excellent KF folks.
I hope the June afternoon bash is a resouding success
and will try to make it up there, if at all poss, for a pint.

Wishing you all the best - Duncan (on the band's behalf, too)

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 04:47 AM

It looks great, Paul - glad to see Susie and Jack are coming, they're old friends of ours.

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Banjiman
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 06:12 PM

Thank you all for the interest shown in supporting the pub and folk club on June 21st.

I've been overwhelmed by support for the afternoon event and so far the (draft) running order looks like this:

1.00pm Karen & Calvin 15 mins

1.30pm Pearson Clan 15 mins

2.00pm Martin Dent 15 mins

2.30pm Ian McKone (TBC) 20 mins

3.00pm Trevor Lister 15 mins

3.30pm Pete & Jools Thompson 15 mins

4.00pm Susie Fox & Jack 15 mins

4.20pm Joolz Cavell / Wendy Arrowsmith / Paul: Blind Summat 40 mins

5.05pm John Kelly (TBC) 20 mins

5.35pm Richard Grainger 30 mins

6.15pm Phil Drane 20 mins

6.45pm Henry Clements 20 mins

7.10pm Peter Taylor 15 mins

7.30pm Tim Leaning (TBC) 15mins

Plenty of time for more impromptu singing between the sets shown above. I have tried to take into account requests for time slots where these have been requested. If I've missed any of these requests or you need to change your time, please let me know.


I have been slightly arbitrary regarding set length with those who I know are traveling a long distance, are seasoned pros doing us a favour or play banjos (only joking on the last point) have been given slightly longer. I hope you can all be understanding of this.........there is the opportunity for encores given the time between performers.

Given the interest, I think we will need to print tickets (75 so that it doesn't get stupidly crowded) for the evening with John Conolly and The Doghouse Roses: no need to send money but if you can confirm how many tickets you need (no need if you already have) I will put these to one side with your names on the back.

Barbie will feature very fine organic pork sausages from one of the local farms.

Should be a good 'un.

Paul

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Banjiman
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 10:49 AM

Hence the club logo......It's Finger Pickin' Good!!!!

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: open mike
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 10:27 AM

whenever i see this i think it is about Kentucky Fried Chicken (KFC)

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Banjiman
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 06:56 AM

Hi Ruth,

Yes, room for a few more caravans & tents. I can squeeze in one or 2 more acts for the afternoon....and there will be opportunities for people to sing one or two between the "acts" as well.

Looks like your going to miss a good event....but I'm sure the wedding will be a good bash to.

Cheers

Paul

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: GUEST,Mrs Brother Crow
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 05:42 AM

I am at a wedding that weekend otherwise I would be there. I see you have the fabulous Phil Drane coming along. I have been singing Red Barn all weekend.

Are there still places for camping Banji as friends of ours like to go to folk events with their own caravan. Also are there any places left for singarounds.

Ruth

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 01 Jun 08 - 05:38 PM

Sorry Paul - I'm in Brum that night. Best of luck - Tom

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Banjiman
Date: 01 Jun 08 - 06:52 AM

OK, we know a really good local organic farmer who does possibly the best sausages in Yorkshire....we'll place a bulk order!

Anyone else making it?

Paul

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: theleveller
Date: 31 May 08 - 11:18 AM

Great line-up, Paul. Really looking forward to it. Doesn't look like we'll be able to make York but see you on 21st (buy lots of sausages!).

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Banjiman
Date: 31 May 08 - 04:22 AM

We've had a fantastic response from people wanting to play at the Farewell/ Save Our Pub party on the afternoon of June 21st (see list below). Really grateful for the support and a special thanks to those who are traveling a long way (Henry, Martin esp), many of these folks are 'Catters. Should be a grand do with John Conolly and the Doghouse Roses on in the evening as well. For other details see above.

These acts will be interspersed with a singaround, so plenty of opportunity for others to have a go.

Confirmed so far:

Pearson Clan
Martin Dent
Ian McKone
Tevor Lister
Pete & Jools Thompson
Blind Sum'at (Wendy Arrowsmith, Joolz Cavell, Paul Arrowsmith)
Richard Grainger
Karen & Calvin
Peter Taylor
Henry Clements
Phil Drane

and possibly:
Tim Leaning ?
John Kelly ?

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Banjiman
Date: 27 May 08 - 04:56 AM

We're getting a very good response to ythe June 21st afternoon. Plenty of acts wanting a short slot and plenty of people coming to support.....anyone else?

Paul

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Banjiman
Date: 23 May 08 - 04:33 AM

Copy of email sent to the club's circulation list giving the latest situation.

Thank you all for the tremendous messages of support we have received over the last few days. It is really quite overwhelming.

I think we have had enough positive response to extend the planned club evening on June 21st into the Saturday afternoon. The plan is to kick off at around 1pm and have a singaround with a few short "sets" from some of the acts who have offered support. If you would like to do 15-30 mins, please let me know. If the weather is kind to us these events will take place in the pub garden with a barbie at around 5.30pm. The barbie will be provided by the folk club and will therefore be at more or less cost....I would think around £2-£3 per person.

This will roll seamlessly into the planned evening's entertainment with Doghouse Roses on stage at 8.30pm followed by John Conolly....if anyone has any energy left we will also have the usual late night singaround. I will finalise and circulate a list of who is playing the afternoon slots in about 10 days time. The evening concert will have the usual £5 entry fee though the afternoon is free....though we will be asking you to buy raffle tickets to bump up club funds (see below).

As for the future, we have provisionally booked the Village Hall in Kirkby Fleetham from June (in case of earlier than planned closure of the pub) onwards. We have used the hall for concerts before and it is a good venue. It poses one or two challenges....music is expected to finish by 11.30pm, so we need to think about the late night sings, there is also no bar....so if we do use the village hall we will suggest in the short term that people bring their own beverages, though we would look to provide a bar in the longer term. The venue is unsuitable for the BBB and WWW weekends we have planned in November & February......so if anyone has any bright ideas, please let me know. We will also have to pay upwards of £5 per hour for the village hall which will make finances slightly tighter (unless we can increase attendances, it comfortably seats 80) .

There is still a chance that someone will take over the pub....but talking to Phil yesterday it seems pretty clear that he will be going at the end of June.

Please support this event if you can (apologies to those who have already said that they can't, disentangling the circulation list would have taken me hours!), or future events if you can't be at this one. Let me know by about June 15th if you want to partake in the barbie so that we can buy enough food!

Thanks again.

Paul

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Banjiman
Date: 22 May 08 - 07:14 AM

Thanks for all your support guys!

We are on for extending the Folk Club into Saturday afternoon .....starting about 1pm. If anyone would like a short performance slot, please just let me know (pm me). This will be interspersed with a singaround until the usual 8.15ish. Afternoon will be free and in the garden of the pub if the weather allows.

Normal (?), planned club night to follow with John Conolly and Doghouse Roses from 8.30pm in the concert room.....and if anyone has any energy left we will have the usual late night singaround following the acts in the bar.

We will also provide a barbie in the afternoon (I would think about 5.30) which will be provided by the club and therefore at cost rather than anyone making money out of. I would think something like £2-3 per person. If people could let me know if they would like to partake in this I can make sure we buy enough food!

Paul

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: GUEST,The Hut People
Date: 21 May 08 - 06:50 PM

Hi Paul,
So sorry to hear of the possible closure of the pub, its a smashing venue.We can't make the 21st we are gigging hope there is a silver lining somewhere.
Cheers
Gary and Sam

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: GUEST,Leila...
Date: 21 May 08 - 06:26 PM

I hope all goes your way.. it would be a tradgedy for the KFFC to end.. I had such a lovely time at your winter warmer and was so hoping to return soon..

Good Luck!!

So sorry I cannot make the 21st to show my full support..

But lots of love n support is sent your way from me..

leila x

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: MoorleyMan
Date: 21 May 08 - 05:59 PM

Have only just returned from a week's break to find this shocking news.
I do hope it's not as bad as it sounds Paul, but whatever, it's a hell of a blow for you after all the fantastic work you've put in getting KFFC up and running - and thriving. And Phil your landlord is I'm sure doing his best - he's a fine fellow and if he can't make a go of the place then I bet no-one can.
Here's my small and insignificant voice of support anyway, for what it's worth.
It looks as though I'll not be able to make 21st June, as I believe I've a booking "darn sarth" (tbc), but hope it all goes well for you.
Where there's a will... I was taught - and although it doesn't always work it should do.
All the best with your endeavours Paul.

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Banjiman
Date: 21 May 08 - 11:17 AM

John,

In enough time that we don't under or over buy for the barbie! About a week beforehand.......we understand the need for gigs! Come and impress the "crew" and you'll probably get one.

Tent space won't be a problem.

Thanks

Paul

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Harmonium Hero
Date: 21 May 08 - 09:47 AM

Paul: I can't promise anything, in case I get a booking - I need all I can get! - but if I am available, I'll definitely come and do a spot. How soon would you want a commitment? I'd want a tent space.
John Kelly.

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Brother Crow
Date: 21 May 08 - 05:17 AM

We'd have loved to be there...it's a great folk club. We're playing at a wedding though, so can't make it.

All the best Paul...

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 May 08 - 05:13 AM

Can I just say, as an ex smoker, I am not rabidly anti all things fumitorial. Although they do say that we ex smokers are the worst when it comes to dissing those who still indulge in the weed.
I will only say this, my life has improved tremendously since I stopped smoking, particularly my sense of smell, and of course along with that my sense of taste has improved too.
When smokers waft past me in the street and I can smell the smoke off their clothing, I wonder if I smelled like that to other people. I suppose I must have, but I was blind [anosmic?] to it.
So while I defend your right to smoke, I encourage you to give it up too.
Then when you're cured, go down the pub and have several pints, and a sing song :)

G

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: theleveller
Date: 21 May 08 - 05:08 AM

Paul, that sounds like a great idea. It makes it even more attractive to drive the 70 miles for a whole afternoon and evening - especially if there's a chance to perform a song or two (we don't get out as much as we used to!).

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Banjiman
Date: 21 May 08 - 03:26 AM

John,it would be fantastic to see you on the 21st. It is looking likely that we will have an afternoon of singarounds and additional short "guest" slots on that date, with a barbecue as well. Ideally (weather allowing) we'll do this in the pub garden and enjoy the distant view of the Dales.



I will be at Burneston FC tonight and will talk to "the locals" just to double check that people want to do this. If it gets the thumbs up I'll be looking for people who would like to do 20-30 min unpaid slots during the afternoon.

Paul

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Nick
Date: 20 May 08 - 07:38 PM

Our society constantly changes. Pubs shutting now is a result of social trends that started a long long time ago. (And those were affected by stuff before - first world war - 19th century licensing laws - pick your starting point).

Music will still exist a long time after these minor structural problems are sorted. It just affects us in the short term.

There is always another option (and usually several). And many that we haven't even thought of.

I'll give you an example. I play in a new band that would like a residency somewhere - regular money, a chance to get tight as a band, all that stuff. Where I live there are no obvious places. But somewhere out there will be someone who wants us - or someone who doesn't realise yet that he wants us but it might be a road to salvation that he or she hadn't considered. Life's a bit like that. You either accept the status quo or you don't. (And yes I know I play Sweet Caroline but it was only because I had to)

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Harmonium Hero
Date: 20 May 08 - 04:32 PM

Sad to hear of the threat to yet another folk club. I hadn't got around to it yet, but was hoping to pay you a visit. I don't seem to be doing anything that weekend, so may be able to get there.
Regarding the comments about the smoking ban: while it may have driven a few kamikazee smokers out, I don't believe that this alone would have put pubs out of business. I wholeheartedly endorse Tootler's 'rant'. For many years, the smoky atmosphere put a lot of people off going to pubs. It drove me out of music sessions. It also made my life as a singer very unpleasant. Pubs existed for centuries before that silly bugger Raleigh brought the dreadful weed back from his holidays in America. Maybe it needs a bit of time for people to drift back, but, as has been said, there are other contributary factors. I was going to mention the drink/driving laws, but Tootler got in before me. Drivers who would have had maybe two or three pints will now stick to one. Quite right, you may say, but it's no doubt a factor. And the price of drinks, like the price of everything else, is also a deterrant - backed up by the cheaper alternative of supermarket booze. And home entertainment. And I suspectr that the omnipresent big-screen sport may be driving some people out. Contrary to what some people think, not everyone wants this; I have been in pubs where there has been football on a huge screen, with NOBODY paying the slightest attention. Or, more often, walked into an empty room in a pub with a football match on the big screen - not an empty pub, just the empty room... Add to this the price of fuel; the pubs which have been taken over by money-greedy chains and tarted up to attract the 'Yoof' trade; and the anti-acoustic music PEL, and what have you got? Well, certainly not the pub we all know and love. Pubs have been closing for years, before the smoking ban. We can argue about this for ever - and no doubt will. Nick's comments a couple of posts back are right. Our society is changing. Mostly not for the better. Maybe folk clubs need to do some re-thinkig. Perhaps some other kind of venue will become the norm - village halls for instance, where, perhaps those who want to drink can bring their own supermarket booze, and perhaps tea/coffee could be provided. I daresay we could get used to it. We're supposed to be there for the music, aren't we?
John Kelly.

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Betsy
Date: 20 May 08 - 02:14 PM

Thanks and Pax to Giok, Leveller and Villain.Incidentally I thought LOL meant "Lots of Love" easy mistake.
Let's hope this subject resolves itself to everyones satisfaction, after all the money men (the Breweries) are well represented in high places, but they ARE still flogging loads via the supermarkets.
The whole picture and nature of the British social scene is changing in a dramatic way .
I'm sure you must have taken an overseas visitor to a pub and they love the atmosphere which has taken centuries to evolve, until, the alchopop reared it's ugly head.

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Banjiman
Date: 20 May 08 - 09:38 AM

KFFC.....online folk club maybe?

The chorus singing wouldn't be the same though!

Nick,

All of that makes a lot of sense to me.......but we certainly lose a lot if it is true.

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Nick
Date: 20 May 08 - 09:26 AM

Somewhere between 25 and 30 years ago when I worked for J Walter Thompson I went to a talk by a 'future predictor' - much like Faith Popcorn and similar who if you haven't heard of search for - and it's interesting in retrospect to see what they talked about.

They predicted that the world would move from a broadcast to a narrowcast world.

They predicted that people would become more insular and narrow and that business would need to cope with it

They predicted a world where people increasingly would cocoon themselves indoors and become more narrow

etc etc

I think they were very bright.

What they looked at were small trends that will come big trends. Pubs. Smoking. Clubs. Coffee bars. Being at home...

They are all part of a bigger trend that (sadly?) was predicted donkeys years ago. Interesting to see what future trend people are predicting for the future

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Tootler
Date: 20 May 08 - 09:08 AM

Oh! and I forgot to say that I think the drink drive laws probably have as much to do with reduced trade in pubs as the smoking ban and they also make sense.

Geoff

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Tootler
Date: 20 May 08 - 09:06 AM

Paul, I am sorry that the Pub is under threat of closure. It is a good venue and you have put a lot of effort into getting the folk club off the ground. Last Saturday was my first visit and it was an excellent night which I thoroughly enjoyed.

I will try and come on the 21st June, though I cannot be certain at this stage.

As to the reasons, I suspect it is no one factor. The smoking ban may have contributed, but far more likely is a combination of recent tax increases, fuel price rises and the current economic climate. Such a combination will inevitably lead to pub closures. The smoking ban may be a contributory factor, but without the other factors, I suspect many pubs would otherwise survive.

[rant]
As to Guest Hugh Allen, you are the kind of person I would rather not have in a pub. You must realise that your habit not only affects your health (which is your own lookout) but also that of others, especially the bar staff who have to work in the smoky atmosphere. The atmosphere in pubs is so much more pleasant since the smoking ban.
[/rant]

That said I do think the rules about smoking shelters are just plain stupid. Like it or not, people are not going to just stop smoking because of the ban and it would make sense to permit pubs and restaurants to provide reasonable smoking shelters. To me the ban is more about consideration for other customers and for the staff.

Geoff

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: GUEST,Hugh Allen
Date: 20 May 08 - 05:19 AM

There is no doubt that the smoking ban has contributed to the closure of so many pubs.   The last statistics I heard put the closures in England at 14 per week. Pubs need to make money and a lot of their core customers were smokers.
This will be vigorously denied by the anti smoking brigade but the timing cannot be a coincidence.
I for one have given up visiting folk clubs because, although I can accept no smoking rules in concert venues, I refuse to stand outside in the cold in order to smoke. The only time I go into a pub now is in order to eat. Having done so, I leave and visit a fellow smoker's house fo a drink or invite friends to my house.
Anti smoking zealots have made a major contribution to the demise of the community pub. It is hypocrisy to try to blame the breweries etc.

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 20 May 08 - 04:22 AM

What all this would seem to prove, is that greed is not a good basis on which to run a business.
It would appear that the breweries, and other businesses too, work on the principal that when less punters visit, they raise the prices in order to maintain their profit margins. So the less punters the more the beer costs.
Have they never thought of trying to attract more customers instead?

G

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Rasener
Date: 20 May 08 - 03:58 AM

LOL

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: theleveller
Date: 20 May 08 - 03:54 AM

Just a misprint, folks. People get high on the buzz of the party. However, a huge hash-growing factory was discovered in the next village. I understand the perpetrator is now residing at HM's pleasure. (Please bear in mind that my eldest son is a copper!)

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Banjiman
Date: 20 May 08 - 03:52 AM

Cheers Nick,

Yes I know we won't keep the pub open single handedly .....but you have to try! We might galvanise the village into some action and demonstrate that there is a potential business there for a new Landlord (the pub management company will keep the pub open if they can find someone to take over....it is the licensee who takes all the risk). I agree that the pub has to grow its' very local clientèle (not many of who attend the folk club either, except for well know acts).

I am exploring other options but at this stage I'm not sure they are viable....especially not for the weekend bashes. We would have to fundamentally change what we do....I need to talk to the other regulars and find out what would keep them coming.

Paul

p.s. I liked your CD by the way.

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Nick
Date: 20 May 08 - 03:40 AM

Paul

I don't think that there's any doubt that the music evenings work well but that's not the reason the pub is under threat. It's unlikely that a viable number of drinkers are going to swerve off the A1 on a regular enough basis to make it viable.

It would be sad to lose what you have built up so it's worth having a contingency plan and have a look round the area as to where else is feasible to play. You might find that there are other options that would welcome you and where you could maintain what you have. The difficult bit will be replacing the 'concert room' you have use of at Kirkby as they are normally utilised for food or similar.

When Sams curtailed our activities we had been making a significant difference to the economics of the local pub but the pub also had a large enough regular clientele on the other days of the week because of the fantastic landlord that was there at the time and the overall ambience of the place. We similarly had enjoyed a couple of weekends of music where Mick and the Hull/Beverley hordes had descended and we could have done many more.

When it stopped there was a huge temptation just to give up and stop because of the effort of starting again - getting to know a new landlord - encouraging people to come etc etc But it was worth it and we are now better supported than we used to be.

I'll try and come on the 21st, at the moment it's the only Saturday in June that we haven't a gig so unless that changes I'll bring my wife and come and have a sing and a listen.

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Banjiman
Date: 20 May 08 - 03:20 AM

"Find another pub - sad as it may be as it is a nice venue and the room is nice - but probably a little out of the way."

Nick, it depends where you are coming from....... it's not out of the way for me (staggering distance!) or more importantly for anyone coming up or down the A1, which is only 1.5 miles away.

There is no doubt that the smoking ban has had an impact on the viability of traditional pubs.....there is no doubt that smoking has no place in a folk club/ concert "space".

Anyone else able to make the "farewell" party on June 21st? It is likely that we will have a singaround/ additional acts, hopefully in the garden on Saturday afternoon and I'm working on a barbecue early evening followed by the planned concert.

Paul

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: Rasener
Date: 20 May 08 - 02:19 AM

Betsy
You didn't add the LOL to the end of the quote I made

>>So everybody goes home on a high then. Cool man LOL<<

LOL stands for laughing out loud (in case you wasn't aware Betsy). I think leveller meant "doing" not "doping". Well I hope Leveller meant that.

Incidentally Betsy, I am anti-drugs big time.

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 19 May 08 - 07:05 PM

For what it's worth my observations across the land suggest a significant decline in pub trade mainly due to the smoking ban - with the beer prices against supermarket loss-leaders a close second. Many -most? - pubs were ghost towns through the winter, and perhaps double figures of folk clubs are in trouble as a result.

Warmer weather may grant a few months reprieve, as smokers are happy to sit outside, but many people have now broken the habit of pub-going and may never re-acquire it.

The ban doesn't affect club attendance directly, but it affects pub atmosphere and therefore club atmosphere. I know of many pubs who are now only opening at weekends, with major consequences for some folk clubs.

Tom

Subject: RE: KFFC under threat potential pub closure
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 May 08 - 06:07 PM

Sorry Betsy, I didn't mean it to be a personal attack, it just sounded like a rant to me, and there's no law that says you can't rant, and get things off your chest.
G