BS: Glasgow earthquake!

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 09:57 AM

Eh Akenaton, please try and keep up. What do you think is being said here by Kevin?

"As for personal attacks, I somehow misconstrued that bit in Teribus 28 Jul 08 - 01:38 PM as a personal attack directed at Shimrod"

What does "I somehow misconstrued" mean?

(To misconstrue = to form a false understanding of the meaning or intention of something that someone does or says)

So you tell us all Akenaton, where and when did I personally attack Guest Shimrod. I can clearly point out the posts in which he personally attacked me.

And no Akenaton "Spite Infested" clearly and quite accurately describes your mind and manner.

As to describing "what is happening in Scotland" only too glad to, but so far you have not addressed a single point I have raised. Tell us again why it is that only one person in five is prepared to vote for the SNP? Do 20% of the electorate of Scotland actually constitute a credible mandate?

I won't hold my breath Akenaton, because I know that all you will come out with will be more emotive drivel, such as:

"right now what the Scots are increasingly seeking, is self respect, self belief and a wish to assume their rightful place in this world....as equals with all other nationalities, not cannon fodder or ghettoised, benefit ridden failures, kept in subserviance by each succeeding corrupt Westminster regime."

Got news for you ma wee heilan' anarchist:

"self respect" - is not bestowed upon a person by others it is "self" earned.

"self belief" - Again personally earned it doesn't drop out of the sky.

Tell us what is Scotland's "rightful" place in this world?

"subserviance"?? As a Scot I have never felt subservient to anyone or anything on this planet. If you do, tough shit, your problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 10:33 AM

Yes, my initial post was intemperate, McGrath - thanks for pointing that out. Although I strongly believe that it is entirely appropriate to display such intemperance when discussing 'modern' business practices. I do not regret posting that message and I stand by every word.

Nevertheless, the subsequent post from Teribus was (predictably) scornful and I reacted against that scorn by flinging personal abuse.
Now, normally, I would apologise ... but in this case I retract nothing. You deserve everything you get, Teribus! If you ever post anything which is not quite so slavishly supportive of the status quo and/or questions the set-up just a tiny bit then I might think about changing my mind.

Remember, Teribus, in the 'red-in-tooth-and-claw, 'dog-eat-dog' universe that is all that you can imagine or aspire to, you shouldn't be surprised when some mutt takes a bite out of you!

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 12:03 PM

Here is a page of Google links which came up when I typed in "definition of irony".

There might possibly be something in there which would be of assistance to Teribus.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 12:05 PM

Here is a page of Google links which came up when I typed in "definition of irony".

There might possibly be something in there which would be of assistance to Teribus.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 12:07 PM

Che? "Teribus" - from the old Welsh "Land of Death"???

Something seems to ahev got lost in the translation!

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Stu
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 12:28 PM

It's part of the battle cry of the men of Harwick, sounded on Flodden Field.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 02:21 PM

In hopes of persuading you to reconsider your unfortunate decision (3 times!) NOT to move to Canada, Teribus, I give you...

Twenty-three great things about being a Canadian:


1. You stand in "line-ups" at the movie, not lines.
2. You're not offended by the term, "Homo Milk"
3. You understand the phrase, "Could you please pass me a serviette, I just spilled my poutine"
4. You eat chocolate bars instead of candy bars.
5. You drink pop, not soda.
6. You know what it means to be on pogey.
7. You know that a mickey and 2-4's mean "Party at the camp, eh!!"
8. You don't hold your hand on your breast when you sing the national anthem.
9. You can drink legally while still a teen.
10. You know that francophones, anglophones and allophones are not electronic devices.
11. You talk about the weather with strangers and friends alike.
12. You don't know or care about the fuss with Cuba, it's just a cheap place to travel to and has good cigars.
13. When there is a social problem, you turn to your government to fix it instead of telling them to stay out of it.
14. You're not sure if the leader of our nation has EVER had sex and don't want to know if he has!
15. You get milk in bags as well as cartons and plastic jugs.
16. Pike is a type of fish, not some part of a highway.
17. You drive on a highway, not a freeway.
18. You sit on a couch not a chesterfield - that is some small town in Quebec!
19. You know what a Robertson screwdriver is.
20. You have Canadian Tire money in your kitchen drawers.
21. You know that Thrills are something to chew and "taste like soap".
22. You know that Mounties "don't always look like that"
23. You read rather than scanned this list.

Irresistible, eh? ;-) I expect you will now reconsider.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 03:21 PM

I certainly hope so!

BTW Teribus the Scots don't need anything bestowed on them, by you or Good Queen Lizzie.

They are in the process of regaining their self-respect and self-belief by removing the stain of Unionism.
Ever heard of "The parcel of rogues" Teribus? Half-hearted Scots like you who would sell their country language and culture for thirty pieces of silver!
"Scotlands rightful place?"...why don't you know its as a member of the community of small nations, equal and free, with no wars to make and no other countries to exploit.
"subserviance"?? As a Scot I have never felt subservient to anyone or anything on this planet. If you do, tough shit, your problem."

Ah Teribus, but I don't suppose you ever wanted for much or were forced to live among the drug addicts, the mentally ill , the child molesters, with no role models but the drug barons and gang bosses.

I know East Glasgow well, and large areas are just like that. Areas where whole families, from grandfather to grandson have never had a job ,or the chance of a job. where wee lassies get themselves pregnant to escape brutality and abuse in the family home.
Stinking sink estates where they can just be convieniantly forgotten by the government in far away Westminster.
Yes its "tough shit" and it's definitely "their problem", but it's also Scotland's problem.
Thre generations of people living in such circumstances become dispirited and subserviant. Scottish nationalism can give these people some hope that their lives can be improved....self-respect and self-belief!!

Compared to these people Teribus you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth...a career in the Royal Navy and a large house at the end of it....not bad for a pen pusher!
Easy for you to say "tough shit", "their problem" and call them apathetic "couldnae gie a fuck wasters", but starting from where they started, you Teribus would be just the same...subserviant and defeated!

The new Scotland must first and foremost, tackle drug addiction, which has become a National disgrace under successive UK administrations and before you cry "their problem", drug addiction can only be irradicated by real government action.
That should be our first priority...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 04:55 AM

So Akenaton:

"They are in the process of regaining their self-respect and self-belief by removing the stain of Unionism."

Accomplishing this how exactly Akenaton? With 4 in 5 of the electorate of Scotland against you, how do you go about "removing the stain of Unionism"?

"Ever heard of "The parcel of rogues" Teribus? Half-hearted Scots like you who would sell their country language and culture for thirty pieces of silver!"

Ever heard of it? I know it and sing it on occasion. More important, Akenaton, do you know what it is about? Unlike you I do not regard songs as history, they are indicators to any particularly period in history provided that they were written at the time, i.e. were contemporary. In 1707 the situation in Scotland was dire, and those who ruled Scotland at that time basically had very little choice. What was "the language" that was sold for thirty pieces of silver Akenaton? What was "the culture" that was stripped from the country?

"The community of small nations, equal and free, with no wars to make and no other countries to exploit." – Is called what Akenaton? When was this organization formed? How many members has this "community of small nations"? My guess is that no such "community of small nations" exists outside that addled brain of yours.

"Ah Teribus, but I don't suppose you ever wanted for much"

And your grounds for stating that are the same as much of what you state – absolute ignorance – you know little or nothing about me, as you say supposition, and you would suppose wrong.

As to being, "forced to live among the drug addicts, the mentally ill, the child molesters, with no role models but the drug barons and gang bosses.

I know East Glasgow well, and large areas are just like that."

Oh Akenaton, is that the same East Glasgow of the "Red Clydesiders" that you have banged on about and held out to be such shining examples in the past? Is that the same East Glasgow that has solidly voted for "socialist" Labour politicians at all levels of Government since the formation of the Party? Is that the East Glasgow that forms part of Glasgow which likewise has been controlled and Governed by "socialist" Labour administrations since the formation of the Party? Are you saying that all that "local" Government was powerless?? That it never had any budgetary control? That it could not direct how and where money was spent? Oh sorry I forgot – "socialism" – It is always somebody else's fault.

Now you rather disingenuously indicate that my response to the problem areas you mention amount to - its "tough shit" and it's definitely "their problem" – placing the relevant descriptions in inverted commas as though you are quoting me. Well Akenaton don't put words in my mouth and do not ever attempt to ascribe to me opinions that are not my own. For those interested to find where these supposed quotes of mine came from and their proper context here they are:

""subserviance"?? As a Scot I have never felt subservient to anyone or anything on this planet. If you do, tough shit, your problem." – Teribus, 01 Aug 08 - 09:57 AM. Nothing whatsoever to do with the context you slipped it into was it Akenaton, and I said "your problem" not "their problem" as you deliberately incorrectly "quoted". Don't worry Akenaton telling lies is not something a "socialist" and anarchist should worry about. They have done so much of it, particularly to their own "followers", that they now no longer know what truth, honesty, or integrity is.

The "Stinking sink estates" you speak of where first created by your "socialist" Labour Councils and first conveniently forgotten by the local government the electorate of Glasgow voted into power time after time after time.

So "Three generations of people living in such circumstances become dispirited and subservient. Scottish nationalism can give these people some hope that their lives can be improved....self-respect and self-belief!!" Care to tell us why and how? Will self-help and assumption of personal responsibility enter into this process, or will it be the same old line of bullshit as before? Delivered by the same corrupt, self-seeking, power-hungry leaches as before, only this time round they'll be wearing different coloured rosettes. Only thing wrong with that delivery is that if it couldn't be done before, why should things be different now?   

"Compared to these people Teribus you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth...a career in the Royal Navy and a large house at the end of it....not bad for a pen pusher!" – An opinion expressed by Akenaton based upon total ignorance.

Here is another example of Akenaton putting words in my mouth:

"Easy for you to say "tough shit", "their problem" and call them apathetic "couldnae gie a fuck wasters", but starting from where they started, you Teribus would be just the same...subserviant and defeated!"

The "tough shit" and "YOUR problem" were dealt with previously, now exactly where did I describe anybody as being – ""couldnae gie a fuck wasters"??? – Easy for me to say was it, Akenaton? – Hardly because I never said it at all did I? Yet another of your baseless little defamations.

Akenaton's priority for his "New Scotland":

It must first and foremost, tackle drug addiction, which has become a National disgrace under successive UK administrations.

Can you tell me why drug addiction in Scotland has not been addressed under Scots Law, which has been completely separate from English Law since before 1707?
Can you tell me why drug addiction in Scotland has not been addressed by the Scottish National Health Service which has been completely separate since its foundation as part of the Bevin reforms pushed through after the end of the Second World War? Funded by Westminster admittedly but administered by the regional Scottish Health Authorities.

By the bye Guest Shimrod, thank you for your acknowledgement on the fact that whereas I might have poured scorn on your ideas, I did not and have not as yet made any personal attack on you in this thread. I also acknowledge that you have admitted that in response to my post that you did personally attack me - Your apology or rather the lack of the same, is of no consequence to me, I shall lose no sleep over it. You on the other hand have to live with your own lack of manners as clearly demonstrated.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 07:23 AM

PS- Little Hawk, 18 items on your list would apply in the UK and quite a few would also apply in Australia and New Zealand.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 07:31 AM

"What does "I somehow misconstrued" mean?"

In this context it means, pretty clearly, I believe I was quite right in recognising the passage in question as am unprovoked personal attack on Shimrod, for which an apology would be in order. (My post of 01 Aug 08 - 12:05 PM might be helpful.)

I have never heard such self-pitying drivel in my entire life, I would rather hope somebody shot me before I came out with such crap.

I think that even Teribus might see that as a personal attack if it has been directed at himself.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 07:46 AM

Kevin;

"....Teribus........ - f**k you and your scorn!" and "Teribus, you a**hole!"

Those are personal attacks, acknowledged by Guest Shimrod, whereas -

"I have never heard such self-pitying drivel in my entire life, I would rather hope somebody shot me before I came out with such crap."

- most definitely is not, I am disagreeing with something that has been said and they way in which it has been said. Under no circumstances could it be construed as a personal attack on anybody because it mentions, or refers to, no-one apart from myself. As I said before you cannot make a personal attack on anyone in a "non-personal" way.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 08:10 AM

Now, now, McGrath, you should know by now that 'natural Tories' like Teribus have a God-given right to sit in judgement on the rest of us. When he passed judgement on me I should have bitten my lip and kept quiet. I should not have let my anger at such presumptive, sarcastic, arrogance spill over on to this thread.

Hang on, what am I saying? Of course I should!

Get stuffed, Teribus!!

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 10:22 AM

Hey Kevin, now that was yet another example of a personal attack from the same source. I await with baited breath you roundly condemning it.

As afar as "Rights" God-given or otherwise I note that within this forum it usually the ardent leftists who are first to dictate what others should or should not do. Like I've said before for them it's one law for the goose another for the gander.

Sweet dreams Shimrod - "spooks" and all.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 11:56 AM

I think that Teribus inability to recognise that he set off this little squabble by making a personal attack on Shimrod is a case of "one law for the goose another for the gander".

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Stu
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 01:11 PM

"As afar as "Rights" God-given or otherwise I note that within this forum it usually the ardent leftists who are first to dictate what others should or should not do."

What a vivid imagination you have - too many years listening to those weasly right-wing propagandists intent on ramping up your paranoia to the nth degree. I note you didn't answer after you falsely accused me of telling you what to do.

Get a grip Tezza - not everyone's out to get you mate - not even "ardent leftists".

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 01:54 PM

Exactly where and when did I make a personal attack on Guest Shimrod Kevin?

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 02:06 PM

"18 items on your list would apply in the UK and quite a few would also apply in Australia and New Zealand."

Yes, Teribus, I suspect that list was made specifically for Americans to read. They are a bit baffled by some of the smaller details of British culture...as found in the UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, as well as a few other smaller places.

Well, this is good. It only indicates that there are even more good reasons for you to seriously consider moving to Canada, since you would find much here to make you feel almost like you were back at home in the UK, despite the paucity of surveillance cameras. Don't refuse the opportunity a fourth time!

Here's another great thing you can see in Canada:

This is not an example of inflation...

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 05:47 PM

et to find out as I may well be working on a project over there next summer.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 05:49 PM

Something went wrong with the keyboard there, my last post should have read:

"I'll probably get to find out as I may well be working on a project over there next summer."

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 05:59 PM

Great. Well, it's in Sudbury. "The Big Nickel". It's a famous local landmark. It doesn't do anything, it just stands there, but the locals are quite proud of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 06:05 PM

"Just the place for a Snark!" the Bellman cried,
As he landed his crew with care;
Supporting each man on the top of the tide
By a finger entwined in his hair.

"Just the place for a Snark! I have said it twice:
That alone should encourage the crew.
Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice:
What I tell you three times is true."

So here is three times: "I have never heard such self-pitying drivel in my entire life, I would rather hope somebody shot me before I came out with such crap."

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 07:14 PM

Teribus...would you please address your lie about the "10yr referendum"

"As for Akenaton's predictions, off hand I can't think of one that he's got right. Should have consulted Salmond about Scotland being independent within 5 years. It will come as news to him he isn't prepared to put it before the country by way of a referendum for another 10 years."

Would you please explain why you attempted to transpose the two posts by Shimrod?
I can only assume that you were trying to say that Shimrod started the abuse. This is patently untrue. To say someone is posting "self pitying drivel",then to follow up with "I'd rather someone shot me than allowed me to post such crap" is verbal abuse.
BTW you better send for the whole bloody firing squad...the amount of crap you post!
Oh!! silly me I have indeed slandered you.
I ascribed "apathetic couldnae gie a fuck wasters" to you, when what you really said was "apathetic couldnae gie a fuck arses" in reference to the electorate of Glasgow East.

How the hell could I have made such a mistake??

You are a pedant Teribus, you've no style, and your facts are shite....10yrs?? do you know anything about Scottish politics or have you been off on your travels just too long?

I repeat you are toast Teribus, the Nats will wipe out Labour in the next election. Cameron will win the next UK election easily (another prediction of mine, before blair left office) and there you have the ingredients for full Scottish Independence.

If you disagree with that prediction ..GET YOUR MONEY ON THE TABLE!!

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 08:09 PM

Oh yes ...Drug addiction, as a footnote you say
"Can you tell me why drug addiction in Scotland has not been addressed by the Scottish National Health Service which has been completely separate since its foundation as part of the Bevin reforms pushed through after the end of the Second World War? Funded by Westminster admittedly but administered by the regional Scottish Health Authorities"

"Funded by Westminster admittedly"....Shouldn't that read Grossly underfunded by Westminster, Teribus??
I know rather a lot about drug addiction in Scotland, and I know that past UK governments have shamefully underfunded the Re-habilitation programmes.
It will require mamy hundreds of millions to make any impression on drug addiction, but as in many other fields ....we have absolutely no other option.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 01:55 AM

Kevin, the sentence you keep refering to is in no way, shape or form a "personal attack" - even Guest Shimrod acknowledges that - he describes it as scorn in responding to that particular post. The sentence you quote is an opinion on what someone has written, identifying no-one. Please explain Kevin how that could be construed as a "personal attack"? This by the way Kevin is an example of a personal attack - You Kevin, are an obtuse, hypocritical prat.

Transposition of posts? I believe I have only ever referred to one of Guest Shimrod's posts, which Guest Shimrod admits did contain a "personal attack" directed at me.

My apologies on the 10 years Kevin was correct in stating that the referendum will be not be held before 2010, putting it within Akenaton's 5 year time frame.

"I can only assume that you were trying to say that Shimrod started the abuse." - Akenaton

Keep up Akenaton the charge was not of "starting the abuse" but of mounting a "personal attack", and as stated above Guest Shimrod admitted that in responding to my post he did make a "personal attack" on me.

Yes indeed you did slander me, as to how you could possibly do that? Easily explained you are an overly politically motivated, bigotted clown who believes that the world owes you a living. dissembling is remarkably easy for you in order to explain the failings of the guiding lights that you follow. I note that you only own up to one of the slanders perpetrated, you conveniently omit to confessing that the comments "tough shit" and "YOUR problem" (which you altered to "their problem") related to your feelings of being "subservient", it had nothing whatever to do with "Scotlands" drug problem or people in general.

By the bye some facts that are not "shite" - The election results from the Glasgow East By-Election 18.2% of the electorate voted for SNP - that is roughly 1 in 5. The election results from the last Scottish Election - Roughly 1 in 5 voted of the electorate voted for the SNP. By all means bring on your referendum, my guest is that 4 in 5 will say NO. It doesn't take much of a crystal ball to see that Nu-Labour will be trounced at the next UK General Election, Gordon of cartoon has been an unmitigated disaster, as has been is time as Chancellor.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 03:28 AM

'you are an overly politically motivated, bigotted clown who believes that the world owes you a living. dissembling is remarkably easy for you in order to explain the failings of the guiding lights that you follow. I note that you only own up to one of the slanders perpetrated, you conveniently omit to confessing that the comments "tough shit" and "YOUR problem" (which you altered to "their problem") related to your feelings of being "subservient", it had nothing whatever to do with "Scotlands" drug problem or people in general.'


you say some nasty stuff Teribus. Would you say it to someones face? I admit in some cases you are responding to people. But at what age do you intend to learn a little restraint, diplomacy and civilised behaviour to your fellow men?

best wishes, but shaking my head in disbelief that you could write such things to Ake

al

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 04:11 AM

Thanks Al.....But I'm not surprised, thats the way bullies behave.
Teribus's use of language on this forum over the last few years has shown him to be a bully.
This behaviour usually surfaces when T finds himself "on a slippery slope"....as in this thread.

This thread might seem inconsequential to some, but to Teribus, the issues raised are very important indeed..He sees his ideology and precious way of life crumbling around him.
With the probable disintegration of the UK, Teribus faces coming to terms with living in a country which may start to bring some real socialist measures.
There is no guarantee that this WILL happen, but the very thought is enough to frighten the shit out of him.

It must also be extremely demoralising to have supported an Empire for so long, yet now see it crumble to dust.

We have lost so many young men over the years, to give meaning to an Empire which has now been shown to be a rickety facade.

My main reason for supporting Scottish Nationalism is not as Teribus says,... "political", but rather that Independence will mean that our sons and daughters will no longer serve and die in the interests of our leaders, or in the interests of a system which treats them with the utmost contempt.

Regardless of his language, I thank Teribus for his apology and accept that he may have made a genuine mistake.

I would try to explain my reference to his remarks concerning the poor of Glasgow, but too much time has been taken up here on personal details

Onward to Independence!!.....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 04:55 AM

Al, I think you will find out on examination that in almost all cases I am responding to something someone else has said. As to saying some "nasty stuff", not half as nasty as has been directed my way, and for the record to date on this thread I have not made any personal attack on Guest Shimrod - A fact that he acknowledges.

Would I say such "face-to-face" if these discussions were held person - Most definitely, on the proviso that everyone else would hold to saying the same things, in exactly the same manner as they posted, which somehow I would doubt very much.

"I would try to explain my reference to his remarks concerning the poor of Glasgow, but too much time has been taken up here on personal details" - Akenaton

That would be some explanation Akenaton as you struggle to keep alive the myth that I ever made any remarks concerning the poor of Glasgow. I did make reference to the electorate of the Glasgow East constituency, 57.75% of them who couldn't be bother to vote. But at no time at all did I ever make any reference in the terms suggested by you to the poor of Glasgow. Now I believe that I have shown that I can own up to making a mistake - lets see if you are man enough to do the same. Do not ever put words into my mouth, or attribute to me views and opinions that I have patently not given - Do not state as fact things which only exist as your assumptions and opinions.

Onward to Independence!! - I very much doubt it, as I very much doubt that Salmond will call his referendum in 2010. The SNP must actually dread it, because irrespective of the results of the next Scottish Assembly elections, a referendum on Independence will decide if the SNP can continue to exist as a political party because that referendum will be a vote of support for that political party's core belief and aim - A fully independent Scotland. If the people of Scotland say NO, as I think they will, then the SNP have absolutely no mandate to Govern Scotland.

The result of the Glasgow East By-Election was and remains a typical example of a mid-term protest vote, in which the majority of the electorate refused to vote, and as such it signifies absolutely nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 07:05 AM

Yes but it is the most effective or the most seemly response for a man of mature years, Teribus old pal?

Just read through the passage I highlighted again. see what I mean....?

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 07:46 AM

The SNP's core aspiration can equally be stated as being to bring the Scottish people to demand independence. Losing a referendum wouldn't mean that needed to change.   Any mandate to rule would be based on winning an election, an entirely different matter.

As for teh other matter "I suppose it's all down to how we interpret the term "personal attack". There's Glory for you...

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 08:40 AM

Ake - Teribus is not bullying you. He's going off on one. Like those old men you see eating a pasty and shouting with a dog in a pram.

I wish you wouldn't provoke him. Its not nice.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 12:21 PM

" ... and for the record to date on this thread I have not made any personal attack on Guest Shimrod - A fact that he acknowledges."

Hhhhmmm - stretching a point a bit there, Tezza, old mate. Your scorn felt like a personal attack - which is why I abandoned my usual decorum and opted for the savage groin kick ...

Still, something good has come out of this undignified scuffle - at least we now know how to wind up a Tory 'right-steamer'!

Nevertheless, I'm a bit bored with this now.

Best of luck to the Scots, by the way - let's hope that they make the right choices.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 12:31 PM

Well Al, it all depends upon who, and what, you are responding to doesn't it.

To Guest Shimrod - I responded by giving my opinion of what he stated in his post, and I did that without resorting to any "personal attack". The only person so far to view it as such has been MGOH (Akenaton viewed it as being "verbal abuse" and Guest Shimrod himself viewed it as being "scorn")

Now Al, How would you respond to someone who tells you, "f**k you!!" or tells you that you are "an a**ehole"? Does that rank as being a "personal attack"? Guest Shimrod seems to think so, but somehow MGOH, and the rest of the "gang", including yourself Al, somehow think that it does not.

Have I told anybody on this forum where, or not, they could live? Have I ever told anyone on this forum where they would be welcome or not? What would be your response to that Al?

What about someone who deliberately "misquotes" what you have said, places those "misquoted" words or phrases completely out of context and applies them to a subject that you, yourself have not even mentioned, then berates you for making them. Tell me Al, how would you respond to that?

I liked your description; "Like those old men you see eating a pasty and shouting with a dog in a pram." - Although it sits better when applied to Akenaton, than it does to me. I'll stick with my opinion of Akenaton formed over the years we have posted to this forum:

"an overly politically motivated, bigotted clown who believes that the world owes him a living."

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 01:23 PM

"" ... and for the record to date on this thread I have not made any personal attack on Guest Shimrod - A fact that he acknowledges."

Hhhhmmm - stretching a point a bit there, Tezza, old mate. Your scorn felt like a personal attack - which is why I abandoned my usual decorum and opted for the savage groin kick ..." - Guest Shimrod (05 Aug 08 - 12:21 PM)

Really?? Tell me you did post the following on 01 Aug 08 - 10:33 AM didn't you, or was it someone else using your Guest Name?

"Yes, my initial post was intemperate, McGrath - thanks for pointing that out. Although I strongly believe that it is entirely appropriate to display such intemperance when discussing 'modern' business practices. I do not regret posting that message and I stand by every word.

Nevertheless, the subsequent post from Teribus was (predictably) scornful and I reacted against that scorn by flinging personal abuse."

Not much of a stretch at all I would say Guest Shimrod "I reacted against that scorn", why no mention of personal attack in that post where you are clearly addressing MGOH's point.

Of course, I am looking for a bit of honesty and a bit of integrity, looking in the wrong place though eh Guest Shimrod - "Solidarity Brothers" the truth can look after itself. What was it you so disliked about "modern management methods and practices" again Shimrod? Certainly rubbed off on you.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 01:34 PM

Yes I have seen personal attacks on you Teribus, and I have thought they were designed to be hurtful.

But its your response that worries me.

lets face we're all 'of an age'.

You ain't going to persuade me to vote tory, and I doubt very much whether I will convince you that Gordon Brown is the best of a bad lot.

The best any of us is going to do is wrench from the other one a concession - maybe you've got a point.....

Every bit of abuse is a step with ten league boots away from the likelihood of that. All this apopleptic rage is doing you no good and its very unpersuasive.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 01:46 PM

"eating a pasty"? What the hell is a pasty? I thought they were those little things they used to stick on strippers' nipples in the old days, only I think those were spelled "pasties", weren't they?

Nevertheless, the sentence "Like those old men you see eating a pasty and shouting with a dog in a pram" does manage to convey what it is intended to, and in a pretty amusing way I must say. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Stu
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 01:49 PM

mmmm . . . pasties.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 02:35 PM

Oh, I see.

And the dog is a little yappy dog like a Yorkshire Terrier, I presume? Dressed in a little knitted sweater and cap? And the bewhiskered old gent is pushing the little beastie about in a pram so it won't get its little footsies wet? And he's yelling petulantly at passersby who he thinks are getting in the way of his "precious"?

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 03:32 PM

"an overly politically motivated, bigotted clown who believes that the world owes him a living."

Well Teribus I suppose we are all clowns...biting and snapping at one another, while in reality knowing almost nothing about those we berate.
In what way do you find me bigotted Teribus? I am not racist or sectarian or any other type of bigot that I can think of.
I certainly would not call you a bigot Teribus, although we disagree stronly about most things.
You say that I believe the world owes me a living.
How so?...I work as hard as a man half my age, can't remember my last holiday, claim no benefits or rebates...and pay my taxes.

"Overly politically motivated" Hah thats a laugh coming from someone who has so vociferously defended Capitalism and its stinking wars.
In fact,you seem to have quite a good grasp of Capitalist politics

Pity your grasp of what is actually happening in your native country is so poor.....Get out and smell the coffee T, the ground is shifting beneath your feet, the sky is falling,as you sleepwalk to another Tory victory. Don't you know that a Tory victory in 2 yrs will be political suicide for your invincible United Kingdom?

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 05:07 PM

That's right Little Hawk something like a Yorkshire Terrier or possibly a snappy little dog like a Dachshund. Now I have never owned either but you on the other hand, Little Hawk??

For WLD - "Yes I have seen personal attacks on you Teribus, and I have thought they were designed to be hurtful."

But never felt moved to go into print to pull anybody up on them eh Al? But you felt compelled to pull me up on something that never was - the supposed "personal attack" on Guest Shimrod. Now that is interesting Big Al, says volumes about you.

Another member on this forum, alanabit once asked me why it is I dislike "socialists" in general. I'll tell you why Big Al, because generally they are liars, they are dissemblers, they will tell whatever lie, they will look the other way and deny and ignore every fault brought to light within whatever system it is that they support and happens to be flavour of the month. When it fails as it inevitably does, it is dismissed as having not been truly "socialist" and the next band wagon is leapt upon and the cycle is repeated, and the poor fools who believed the lies they had been told sit back and swallow it all hook-line-and-sinker yet again.

Such systems promise much and deliver little - ask the constituents of Glasgow East - Ask Akenaton when was Glasgow East last represented by a Unionist MP? - Ask Akenaton when Glasgow or Strathclyde was last controlled by a Conservative or Unionist Council? - So you tell me who it was that let the people of Glasgow East down, it wasn't the "Unionists" it was a crowd of Labour dinosaurs who promised everybody a return to the "good old days" in traditional industries that were dead, priced out of the market by trade Union bickering and demarcation disputes.

In his "Glasgow earthquake" thread Akenaton has been repeatedly asked a very simple question by me and has so far refused to answer it. Very difficult to convince anyone that the political scene in a country is going to change overnight, or that the ground is going to change under one's feet when the political party being talked about only has the support of 20% of the electorate. Far easier to deflect the question and mither on about things that Teribus is supposed to have said but in actual fact hasn't.

If "socialism" is represented by the likes of those who have posted to this thread, Little Hawk, Akenaton, Richard Bridge, MGOH, Stigweard and yourself WLD, then God help it. Not an indication of any real back-bone, honesty or integrity to be found in any of you, the lot of you are more to be pitied than censured.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 05:23 PM

I've never actually owned one either, Teribus. It's my aged mother who owns the dachshund(s). I speak of them as "my" dogs on this forum just to simplify the discussion some. She has owned a whole series of them over the past 5 decades. They're hilarious creatures. ;-) Most of the ones she has had weren't snappy at all, but I recall one that was a bit that way. He has shuffled on to the great beyond.

I don't think socialists are as bad as what you say. Not when you get to actually know them as other human beings rather than political foes. There probably is the odd socialist who is a real bastard, mind you, but that's true with the odd dachshund too. It doesn't apply across the board.

You shouldn't be so judgemental of whole categories of people and animals, just on the basis of some superficial disagreements you have had over something. It generates more ill will than it deserves. Look on the humorous side for once, man. We will all be dead and in our graves shortly and other vainglorious people very similar to you and I will be bitching and blathering endlessly about all this political hoo-ha and the world will keep turning just fine without any of us. I see little need to get so utterly bloody serious about this stuff all the time.

Sure, you've got your opinions. I've got mine. Akenation has his.

So what???? What's the big deal?

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 05:23 PM

Labour MPs may or may not be dinosaurs - but the one thing you can guarantee they are is "unionists".   The Labour Party is committed to preserving the Union, as is the Liberal Party and the Conservative Party.
...............

"things that Teribus is supposed to have said but in actual fact hasn't." Such as an invented and false assertion about "10 years"...

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 05:53 PM

"they will look the other way and deny and ignore every fault brought to light within whatever system it is that they support"

That seems an excellent description of your own ideology T.
I have never heard you admit one fault in the Capitalist system.
Will you defend your insulting remarks to me, or are they just a jumble of meaningless abuse?

What you fail to understand is that the Glasgow East contest was not a general election, it was a by-election, which traditionally receive a much lower voter turn out than a general election.
the last GE in Glasgow East polled approx 45%, while the BE polled approx 42%. An excellent turnout for a seat like Glasgow East in a By-election. Without the new impetous of the Nationalists, the turnout would have been of the order of 25%.
I repeat, to overturn a majority of 13000, in such a solid Labour seat, in such a short time, is a good gauge of the current performance of the Nats.

However even if the Nats had not been carrying all before them, the certain victory of Cameron in Westminster allied to the ineffectivness of the Scottish Labour Party will mean the Nationalists taking full power in Scotland by default.

You have been a man once already today Teribus, make it a double by admitting that the Scots are fit and ready to run their own affairs.

McGrath is correct As long as the Nationalists are in power they will keep asking the question. I expect a Yes for independence on the first ballot but if that is not achieved, the question will be asked again and again, until either the Nats are removed from office or get the answer they require.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 06:39 PM

Typical MGOH:

"Far easier to deflect the question and mither on about things that Teribus is supposed to have said but in actual fact hasn't."

Gets fired back at me as:

"things that Teribus is supposed to have said but in actual fact hasn't." Such as an invented and false assertion about "10 years"..."

I do believe I acknowledged that as being an error on my part Kevin - Or did you miss that, was that fact inconvenient to whatever point it was that you wished to make?

Now Kevin give me a quote as to when I said "Tough Shit" to the problems of the poor people of Glasgow as I was accused of saying??

Give me a quote as to when I said "their problem" to the problems of the poor people of Glasgow as I was accused of saying??

Give me a quote as to when I described the poor people of Glasgow as apathetic "couldnae-gie-a-fuck-wasters" as I was accused of saying??

Socialistically selective as ever Kevin - Proves my point magnificently.

"You have been a man once already today Teribus, make it a double by admitting that the Scots are fit and ready to run their own affairs."

And you Akenaton, along with some others mentioned here previously have proved that they are not. Admit that "the Scots are fit and ready to run their own affairs", of course they are, they've been running the United Kingdom's for long enough - Only problem is Akenaton 80% of the "Scots" as you define them have indicated fairly clearly that they don't want to.

The other trouble is that you for some reason see and think of "Capitalism" as a political system - It's not - that was also the same misconception that the Communists had of it. Capitalism is a system of economics that is in itself extremely flexible and capable of adaptation to suit whatever political climate - Ask the Chinese Akenaton, or at least those allowed the privelege of being "Party Members" that is, they are doing rather well out of it at the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 07:09 PM

Recipe for haggis from this BBC page:

Preparation time overnight. Cooking time over 2 hours. Serves 4-6

Ingredients
1 sheep's stomach or ox caecum, cleaned and thoroughly, scalded, turned inside out and soaked overnight in cold salted water
heart and lungs of one lamb
450g/1lb beef or lamb trimmings, fat and lean
2 onions, finely chopped
225g/8oz oatmeal
1 tbsp salt
1 tsp ground black pepper
1 tsp ground dried coriander
1 tsp mace
1 tsp nutmeg
water, enough to cook the haggis
stock from lungs and trimmings

Method
1. Wash the lungs, heart and liver (if using). Place in large pan of cold water with the meat trimmings and bring to the boil. Cook for about 2 hours.
2. When cooked, strain off the stock and set the stock aside.
3. Mince the lungs, heart and trimmings.
4. Put the minced mixture in a bowl and add the finely chopped onions, oatmeal and seasoning. Mix well and add enough stock to moisten the mixture. It should have a soft crumbly consistency.
5. Spoon the mixture into the sheep's stomach, so it's just over half full. Sew up the stomach with strong thread and prick a couple of times so it doesn't explode while cooking.
6. Put the haggis in a pan of boiling water (enough to cover it) and cook for 3 hours without a lid. Keep adding more water to keep it covered.
7. To serve, cut open the haggis and spoon out the filling. Serve with neeps (mashed swede or turnip) and tatties (mashed potatoes).

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 08:08 PM

I'm not 'pulling you up'. I just don't think you will persuade anyone by calling them an arsehole - in so many words. I don't think its much good as a response or a debating tactic.

And in fact I have voiced my disquiet about some of the stuff that gets bandied about in these discussions. Usually in PM's admittedly. I don't want to go into specific instances - but yes, I have asked people not to continue certain humdingers. Once or twice, people have said to me - this is getting a bit scary and pulled out of these debates.

Carry on if it makes you happy. But I don't see how it can. If it seems to you the way to go - so be it!

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 10:32 PM

Very good answer Kevin.

While your on about food here's another from the same website:

TRIPE

Peel and chop the onion and cook in the water until tender. Cut up the tripe and add to the onion. Simmer it very gently for about 10 mins and then strain. Finely dice or mince the tripe and onion. Melt the butter in a pan, add the flour and cook for a few seconds. Pour on the tripe liquor, stirring all the time and boil for a few minutes. Season to taste, add the tripe and onion, pour in the milk and bring slowly to the boil. Serves two.


Your recipe
Tripe soup
1/4 lb pre-cooked tripe
1/2 oz butter
1/2 oz flour
Seasoning
1 Onion
Half pint milk
Half pint water

Another one that might be applicable Kevin - Kippers - Normal appearance yellow, two-faced and gutless.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 03:16 AM

A LITTLE INFORMATION FOR THE UN-INFORMED!

20% my arse!


41% AND COUNTING TERIBUS! 19% UNDECIDED.


Time to pack your pyjamas, get your running shoes on and high tail it for the border...:0) If you are indeed from the Hawick area, you might just make it before the declaration....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 03:55 AM

At the other end of the spectrum. Different wording.

HERE
48% against.....36% for...16% unsure.

BUT... This was before the massive swing in Glasgow East.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 04:25 AM

Ah Opinion Polls now count and actually prove something do they?

I'll believe it when I see it Akenaton, hard evidence of actual voting returns still puts it at 20% for 80% against.