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BS: Observations of Republican Convention
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Subject: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Donuel Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:17 PM My first observation before it even begins, is the fact that Hurricane Gustav is going to be ravaging New Orleans, while Bush is in the twin cities. Can Fema get ahold of Brownie in time? Katrina will certainly be a strong reminder during this Convention. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: katlaughing Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:19 PM They've rejected McCain as to the party platform...dissension in the ranks, already. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Donuel Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:24 PM The platform commitee dropped their objection to McCain's reticence to drill in Anwar Alaska. However there is more compromise by McCain to the platform than the other way around. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Donuel Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:31 PM If McCain walks into the convention with Colin Powell as his VP I believe he has effectively split the black vote and veteran vote. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Ebbie Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:33 PM If Colin Powell should accept the post he would lose all the credibility he has left, imo. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Donuel Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:34 PM He hasn't declared one way or another but people do strange things for power and $. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Amos Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:35 PM SO far, the Repub Convention is a large Zero. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:37 PM Looks like Ron Paul is fully on track for the counter convention. But the main stream media has not mentioned it since June 10. But they are not in the tank for McCain't Oh no!!!! Paul Website, 10,000 at the Target center. http://www.mudcat.org/blickifier.cfm |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Donuel Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:39 PM McCain Rice might do better than McCain Powell. Will The Rep convention fiddle while the South floods? I have no doubt. Dem Congress needs to address this storm since history teaches us that the President isn't fit to respond. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Donuel Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:40 PM Good for Ron. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:47 PM Rice and Powell have both said that they would not take the position if it is offered. Speculation to that end is just Republican misinformation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Donuel Date: 28 Aug 08 - 01:11 PM I take full respondsibility for my malformed speculation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: katlaughing Date: 28 Aug 08 - 02:07 PM McCan't wants Lieberman, badly...I hope he chooses him so a bunch of GOP members will stay home in Nov. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 28 Aug 08 - 02:11 PM I didn't mean to be critical of you, Donuel. McCain has been saying some crazy things just to get his attack dog on TV for the past month or so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Amos Date: 28 Aug 08 - 02:20 PM Apparantly the local hurricane is threatening to interfere with the RNC plans. If this occurs will it, like Katrina, be sinners' punishment by God for sinful lives? Or will it be chalked up as coincidence, as the moral-theological interpretation would be just too inconvenient? This makes for an interesting test-case on the sincerity of right-wing theology. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 28 Aug 08 - 02:24 PM They'll just blame it on a gay rights march in Beijing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Alice Date: 28 Aug 08 - 03:15 PM Reports of secret service checking out Romney's sister's house, so maybe the VP choice is Romney. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Donuel Date: 28 Aug 08 - 03:45 PM Prediction is always difficult, especially when its about the future. Yogi Baer Romney spent $56 million of his own money. If there is one thing Republicans honour, its their own money |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Donuel Date: 28 Aug 08 - 04:14 PM SONG&DANCE |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Bobert Date: 28 Aug 08 - 05:14 PM Wow, Donuel.... When I saw the name of this thread Gustov and Katrina instantly came to my mind... If Gustav hits New Orleans as a Cat 3, McCain might as well pack it in... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Donuel Date: 31 Aug 08 - 10:04 AM 3 year old digital pictures are being reworked as the internal horror in the hearts of all those who lost their home and family cry in rememberance on the eve of another crushing storm. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Riginslinger Date: 31 Aug 08 - 10:21 AM Actually, Gustav gives Bush a reason to git outta Dodge, and McCain will be a lot better off without him. The weather gods are smiling on the Republican Party. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: GUEST,JoeBT Date: 31 Aug 08 - 10:30 AM The establishment media is already reporting that Bush will be a no show at the RNC on Monday due to "concerns" about Gustav. Coward. At least we can count on Billy Bragg showing up for the protests! There was a huge crackdown on journalists and lawyers in the Twin Cities over the weekend. A Democracy Now producer was detained, staff of the organization i-Witness, and if you go here: http://theuptake.org/ you can see footage of Amy Goodman jumping a fence to get into the yard where people were detained during one of the house raids. The house in question is apparently the home of a long time Twin Cities Green Party activist, who had rented out one side of his duplex to the Democracy Now, Free Speech TV & i-Witness folks from NY for the RNC. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: GUEST,JoeBT Date: 31 Aug 08 - 11:21 AM AP is now reporting this: ST. PAUL, Minn. (AP) -- President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney and California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger are all skipping the Republican National Convention. Bush and Cheney are focusing on Hurricane Gustav, which is rapidly approaching the Gulf Coast. Schwarzenegger is staying home to deal with a standoff with California legislators over the state budget. All three had been scheduled to speak Monday night at the convention. *** Monday is the big day of protests, with some estimates as high as 50,000 coming. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Alice Date: 31 Aug 08 - 12:30 PM Why does this remind me of the preacher who asked his followers to pray for heavy rain to fall on the Democratic convention? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Peace Date: 31 Aug 08 - 12:35 PM I asked on another thread: Has anyone notified FEMA that there is a storm approaching New Orleans? That's not meant to be tongue in cheek. I mean it! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: catspaw49 Date: 31 Aug 08 - 12:46 PM Here's a piece to help put you at peace Peace.....so read the piece and be at a bit of peace.......uh, Peace. Actually I think they're ahead of Katrina but the whole admin makes me nervous so who ta' fuck knows. The Shrub is making noises like he knows what he's doing but of course he doesn't. RNC is making MAJOR schedule changes according to news reports. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Alice Date: 31 Aug 08 - 12:59 PM News conference with Bush was just broadcast on major news stations. He said he would not be going to the convention. Urged everyone to evacuate the coastal areas. Mayor Nagin has also announced total evacuation of New Orleans in a press conference. He will go to Texasto meet with emergency workers and evacuees. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: GUEST,JoeBT Date: 31 Aug 08 - 01:02 PM Convenient for them, the timing of landfall, isn't it? From today's San Francisco Chronice, we see the REAL reason why a Cat3 looking to hit sparsely populated coastal areas between NOLA & Houston, is causing such a freakin' panic: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/08/30/MNQJ12LPN1.DTL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Donuel Date: 31 Aug 08 - 01:24 PM Joe, whats the point of spending 20 billion dollars on a new executive branch secret police called HLS and changeing the FBI guidlines with Patriot Acts... if you don't attack and arrest people in their own homes for opposing the Republican ticket. If ya got that kind of power, flaunt it. Lets hope entire neighborhoods are ghettoized for the duration of the convention. In contrast the number of arrests in Denver seemed to be less. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/08/30/MNQJ12LPN1.DTL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Alice Date: 31 Aug 08 - 01:27 PM My post above was not clear - BUSH will go to Texas to be with emergency workers in Austen during the storm. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Donuel Date: 31 Aug 08 - 01:29 PM Thats another thing maybe one in a hundred people even realize that Home Land Security is the Imperial Guard, investigators and Army exclusively for the Executive branch. http://usera.imagecave.com/donuel/don1/homelandseal.jpg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Stringsinger Date: 31 Aug 08 - 01:29 PM Bush is persona non grata at the RNC. Unfortunately for McCain the residue doesn't wash off so easily. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Donuel Date: 31 Aug 08 - 02:36 PM Will Barack claim his back hat? Go Ahead take it. I Double dog dare ya |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: GUEST,JoeBT Date: 31 Aug 08 - 05:29 PM They have completely cancelled the RNC for tomorrow. Again, quite convenient that no high ranking Republicans will be here tomorrow when the 50,000 protestors are here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: catspaw49 Date: 31 Aug 08 - 05:50 PM Yeah, it was great of them to create a hurricane just for this reason. A really crafty and sly move. Just plain fuckin' A Brilliant!!!! On the other hand what would you have thought if they had gone ahead and "partyed hearty?" Something like, "Why those sunsabitches are partying while people are losing their homes?" Yeah......... Look.....I wouldn't vote for McCain if he was the last man on earth unless he was somehow running against Dumbya! But some of this shit that's getting thrown from each side is fuckin' ridiculous. Would the Dems have done the same thing? Sure. Yeah.....McCain bites the big one, but ferchrissakes, give it a break! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Amos Date: 31 Aug 08 - 07:56 PM 08-31) 04:00 PDT St. Paul, Minn. -- Activists planning protests around the Republican National Convention say they are being targeted in a heavy-handed attempt to chill dissent after police arrested five people, detained dozens of others, and seized computers and protest guides in raids Friday night and Saturday on private homes and the major meeting center. IMAGES View Larger Image GOP CONVENTION GOP faces steep odds, and Gustav isn't helping 08.31.08 Saunders: GOP platform targets sanctuary cities 08.31.08 M&R: Palin's stance on shooting wolves 08.31.08 Palin could add spark to predictable event 08.31.08 5 arrested, dozens detained in pre-RNC raids 08.31.08 Diaze: Infomercial era over 08.31.08 MORE NEWS 9 arrested at Xcel in antiwar march 08.31.08 Police: Nearly 1.9 million flee Louisiana 08.31.08 McCain orders convention curtailed for Gustav 08.31.08 The "RNC Welcoming Committee," an organization of dozens of activist groups and individuals from around the country, has been planning demonstrations for over a year at the convention. The largest, which activists said could draw up to 50,000 people, is scheduled for Monday, the opening day of the convention. At around 9:15 p.m. Friday, Ramsey County sheriffs and St. Paul police officers kicked in the door of a former theater in St. Paul that the group had rented as a central planning office, said Lisa Fithian, a nonviolence coordinator working with the protesters. They ordered the 50 people inside onto the floor, where they were handcuffed, photographed and asked for identification, then had their possessions searched. Police kept at least three laptops, plus schedules and 7,000 "welcoming guides" organizers planned to distribute to people coming to the Twin Cities for demonstrations, Fithian said. Those inside were released within two hours, she said. On Saturday, police raided four other homes and arrested five people. They were being held at the Hennepin County jail in Minneapolis Saturday on suspicion of conspiracy to riot, conspiracy to commit civil disorder and conspiracy to damage property. "The 'Welcoming Committee' is a criminal enterprise made up of 35 anarchists who are intent on committing criminal acts before and during the Republican National Convention," Ramsey County Sheriff Bob Fletcher said in a statement. "These acts include tactics to blockade and disable delegate buses, breaching venue security and injuring police officers. They have recruited assistance in their criminal conspiracy from other anarchists groups throughout the country." Activists who gathered Saturday evening at the Rivertown Events Center, where the Friday night raid occurred, said they were shaken by the raid but not deterred. Some shared stories - and photos - of police arresting and handcuffing other suspected activists around the area. "I think (Friday night's raid) was a scare tactic to not go to the big demonstration Monday," said Monica Trinidad, a 22-year-old University of Illinois at Chicago student who was handcuffed outside the center Friday night as she was returning to see what was going on. "But I don't think it's going to work." Hal Muskat, a 61-year-old San Franciscan and member of Veterans for Peace, said the arrests might attract even more protesters. "It was a tactic to try and take out the leaders," he said. "I know some people don't like to go out in the streets. But when anybody within a 12-hour drive hears about what's going on here, they're going to want to be here with us on Monday." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: GUEST,JoeBT Date: 31 Aug 08 - 08:49 PM From where a lot of people sit, this is a manufactured crisis, that cynically aids McCain by keeping Bush/Cheney out of the picture completely. The president is in Texas, Homeland Security is in LA, and just what the hell can anyone else do? Besides be interviewed by establishment media talking heads ten times daily, while keeping Obama off the screen? Tamper down the celebratory nature of the beast? You bet they could. But cancelling everything, going into disaster monger mode (where have we seen that happen before around election time?) and costing the local MN economy to suffer for it? What the hell kind of sense does that make? They easily could have gone with a subdued convention. It wouldn't have been inappropriate at all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: SharonA Date: 31 Aug 08 - 09:47 PM The disaster they're trying to relieve is Her'n'McCain Sarah. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Barry Finn Date: 31 Aug 08 - 09:51 PM Everybody's out to lunch, dining will resume when the sun shines out my back door. Meanwhile Obama can take to the waves & surf in on this storm, "hang 10 buddy". Talk about an opportunity to go fishing for floatsum & jetsum. This could be his Bejin..gle, hope he's not dancing, that would be carrying things a bit to far. Oh, how Barack could do a Bojangles & dance with both feet & land on HummerLand Security, "My protest's were smaller than yours" song, Privacy, the Patriot Act, Freedom of Speech, the Right to Assembly, the Amendants & search, seizure & warrantless acts on the American people, he could milk it till the well runs dry! And the protesters, how's all this unwanted public attention gonna go down in favor of their cause. If the RNC isn't carefull China may want a piece of this, they call in the markers. All the NRA or the RNC has to do now is call in a couple tanks with "what's her name from Alaska at the wheel". McRain may have skated weatherwise but he's in deep 'DoDo' with a reschedule, that means the rest (ok, only the 3 or 4 that count) will have to be a 'show up' on a new date & that again ties Bush & Chain-eeee to his side which is not a good thing for him under the present country's climate. I don't think Arnold really wants to be McFails terminator but as a sold=her (he's married to the Kennedys') he'll do as he has too or stay home as long as possible. Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: SharonA Date: 31 Aug 08 - 09:54 PM "Do a Bojangles", Barry? That's very offensive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Donuel Date: 31 Aug 08 - 10:03 PM Maverick and Paldin went gunnin for the new man in the black hat. When all the smoke cleared there were bodies on the ground. The hired guns had done their job in no time flat. Big Railroads paid the killers and bought drinks all around. Town folk were told he had to die, his dream caused a crisis. Then the ranchers lost their farms to the bank. And the rail road store doubled their prices. Those dangerous dreams were whispered as his body stank. It was 40 years before another dreamer came to town. By now the water was sour and crops died in the field. This time the church and bosses put him down. And another 40 years went by until the town had healed. refrain: They say you don't need to kill a man all you need is delay Dreamers try to help the best they can while killers are taught to pray. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Deckman Date: 31 Aug 08 - 10:05 PM God speaks in mysterious ways! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Barry Finn Date: 31 Aug 08 - 11:10 PM That's very offensive How so, Sharon? Maybe a bit crude but not offensive. I like to do a "Bojangles" on the head on McDunce & his new Plame, why should I not want Obama to do the same, I certinally wouldn't keep him from any opportunity that's knocking on heaven's door. Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 31 Aug 08 - 11:38 PM do a Bojangles? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Barry Finn Date: 01 Sep 08 - 12:29 AM I was having a word play moment with "Beijing" as in China who we're in debt to & "Bejin..gle" a cross between "Beijing" & a "Jingle" as in a catchy commerical musical add, which led to more play with "Bojangles" a dancer with a pair of fantastic feet. Never mind I was getting too carried away anyway. Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: beardedbruce Date: 01 Sep 08 - 06:04 AM mos: ASince it has not yet started, your post "RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Amos - PM Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:35 PM SO far, the Repub Convention is a large Zero. A " Is a lot like me claiming that a future Obama administration is a large zero that has done nothing. Is that what you want to jsutify? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: SharonA Date: 01 Sep 08 - 07:23 AM Barry: Since you asked, I will answer. I hope you're not acting intentionally dense here; I hope you're just too young to understand why your remark "Oh, how Barack could do a Bojangles & dance with both feet" is so offensive. Let me attempt to explain before you make any more posts about it and receive a verbal smack upside the head from Azizi! Bill Robinson (1878-1949), who was given the nickname "Bojangles" as a child (a href="http://artsedge.kennedy-center.org/exploring/harlem/faces/robinson_text.html">according to this article), was a pioneer of dance, a successful vaudeville and nightclub performer and a toast of Broadway on the black theater circuit, but did not dance for white audiences until he was 50. At that time he appeared in Blackbirds of 1928, a revue of black performers produced by a white impresario for white audiences. From that point on, in films and shows that whites would see, his roles were restricted to playing the stereotypical happy-go-lucky, smiling, servile step-and-fetch-it (mainly as an antebellum butler in films that hearkened back to those "happy" days when blacks were slaves). This was a restriction imposed by Hollywood and by the Jim Crow era, and Robinson bowed to these restrictions in an attempt to be a sort of ambassador to the white world while trying to maintain a connection to black show-business through the Hoofers Club. Consequently, the name "Bojangles" came to have a different meaning to whites and to blacks: to whites he was an unthreatening pet, a role which blacks resented. So, to "do a Bojangles" means more than just to do a stair-dance. It means to become the worst kind of throwback Jim Crow stereotype for the amusement and entertainment of the white man, a happy darkie dancing for the Massa to allay his fears of a slave uprising. To imprint this onto Barack Obama, who is breaking through color barriers and stereotypes to achieve true equality, is to make a mockery of his campaign for change. It is highly offensive. Please stop it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: SharonA Date: 01 Sep 08 - 07:27 AM My link in my second paragraph above is missing an HTML character. Linking again: according to this article More info came from this Wiki article |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: SharonA Date: 01 Sep 08 - 07:37 AM For those unfamiliar with the famous "step dance" from the Shirley Temple movie The Little Colonel, here it is with a bit of the context of the movie, which shows Robinson in one of those servile roles: The Staircase Dance (Warning to film buffs: this clip is colorized!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: GUEST,JoeBT Date: 01 Sep 08 - 08:03 AM Sigh. The race police are here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Amos Date: 01 Sep 08 - 10:22 AM BB: At the time, my post was in jest since it was obvious the non-event had not yet occurred. It is beginning to look now, though, that in addition to a sclerotic candidate and an airheaded veep, the power of the Almighty is interceding to make a non-event out of the actual convention. This must be some kind of Divine punishment for some sin perpetrated by the Republicans. Hubris? Who knows. I can't imagine, really, what it could be. But mysterious ways, and all that. Maybe He's ticked at Cindy McCain for thinking that anyone in Alaska knows Russian politics. Sigh..... A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: DougR Date: 01 Sep 08 - 02:24 PM Amos: your post of August 28:"So far he Republican convention is a big 0." Yep, I agree it hadn't even started yet. Speaks well of Mudcatters that they can discuss and criticize an event that no one even knows what the starting date will be. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Rep. Convention From: Amos Date: 01 Sep 08 - 03:37 PM I believe it was scheduled to start today, but there has been some backing and filling to make way for Gustav because it would be just TOO embarassing to re-enact the Administration's performance if Gustav seemed to emulate Katrina. Gawd, the political humiliation!! So instead they opted to have a sort of hit-or-miss convention to make sure they were defending their reputations as Americans first, which makes good sense. Kinda messes up the schedule, but, hey...it's "acts of God", and who should know better about those? I'm still trying to figure out why God is mad at the Republicans. And here they have been trying so hard to keep his commandments and all, except for a few...well...mostly...kinda sorta...anyway, they say the right things... A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 01 Sep 08 - 05:03 PM Robertson and Falwell said that Katrina was punishment for tolerance of gays. But as it turned out it cause a huge decline the power of their own political movement. Pardon the pun, but Gustav is dampening the Republican Convention on the Day Bush and Cheney were scheduled to speak. McCain is buzzing around pretending to be President, but doing that is Bush's job, and although he looks quite harried. At least this time he is trying to lead. After seven and a half years he may actually have finally read his job description. So far it does not look like Gustav is doing a lot of damage in the gulf coast. Thank God for that. But if you believe that God sends these storms for a reason. Reason might tell you that this year God is saying "Don't vote for the GOP." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: SharonA Date: 01 Sep 08 - 06:04 PM JoeBT: *sigh* The GUESTs are here. Hee hee! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: DougR Date: 01 Sep 08 - 06:44 PM Sarcasm, Amos? How unlike you. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 02 Sep 08 - 12:06 AM As the bus was not there to protest the convention and as this article would appeal to more than the usual suspect political junkies, shouldn't you last post have its own thread? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: katlaughing Date: 02 Sep 08 - 12:08 AM I guess so, JtS. I'll delete it and start a new thread. Thanks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 02 Sep 08 - 11:44 AM It's surprising to me how little discussion there has been about a major political party's national convention. It's been almost a no-subject. Jack Cafferty, a CNN columnist writes: NEW YORK (CNN) -- "This week the Republicans gather for their convention. For four days, they will labor under the illusion their party is still relevant. It's not. It is entirely fitting that the headliner for this masquerade is a feeble looking 72-year-old white guy who doesn't know how many homes he owns. It's more than symbolic that when a million Americans are losing their homes to foreclosure, the Republican candidate for president has lost track of his holdings. McCain surrounds himself with people like former Republican Sen. Phil Gramm who called America a "nation of whiners" and said we are only suffering a "mental recession." That's the same problem the Republican Party has. It has lost track of what it used to stand for: small government, a disciplined fiscal policy, integrity. In a way, the perfect storm of a rapidly changing population -- old white people aren't going to be in the majority very much longer (and isn't that who most of the Republicans are?) -- has combined with the total abdication of principles, Republican or otherwise, of arguably the worst president in the nation's history to mark the beginning of the end of the Republican Party as we know it. Republican Congressman Tom Davis of Virginia said it best: "The Republican brand is in the trash can. If we were dog food, they would take us off the shelf." It is so bad that more than 10 percent of the Republican members of the United States Senate aren't even bothering to attend their own party's convention. They recognize dog food when they see it. Don't Miss The Cafferty File: Join the conversation Jack's book: "It's Getting Ugly Out There" Commentary: Beverly "Hillary-billies" come to Denver In Depth: Commentaries And it almost doesn't matter who the next president is. We are witnessing the beginnings of a sea change in this country. A wakeup call has sounded for young people who are suddenly interested enough in politics to make a difference. New voter registrations across the country are making a mockery of the old polling models. Voter turnout in the primaries was staggering. Blacks and Hispanics feel they have a real stake in things -- and as their numbers continue to grow as a percentage of the population, their voice will only get louder. The march of the next generation is underway and the older generation has no choice but to eventually get out of the way. Watch for the signs this November. Republicans stand to be turned out of office at every level -- from the U.S. Congress to governors' mansions and state legislatures. Republicans who remain in office will be rendered impotent by their shrinking numbers...." |
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Subject: Guidelines for Watching the Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 02 Sep 08 - 03:08 PM Experience is a central theme in this election--and like the candidates, we'd like to trumpet ours. Based on our proven track record as writers of one previous convention Drinking Game, we proudly present the Republican National Convention version--ready from day one to get you hammered.
Oh, and call in sick the next morning, chances are you'll need it... A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Sep 08 - 03:54 PM Amos - "I'm still trying to figure out why God is mad at the Republicans." You're joking, right? ;-) The whole damn world is mad at the Republicans! Why wouldn't God be mad at them too? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 02 Sep 08 - 04:32 PM Now, Little Hawk, you know darn well the Republicans are God's own party!! It was them who put "under God" in the Pledge. It was them who got direct instructions to topple Iraq, through Bush's hair-dryer. It's them who forbid murder until after the first birthday, just like God. It's them who re-write history to make Jefferson and Paine look like fear-struck Christians. Hey, man, those 'publicans are all over the God thing. C'mon!!! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Sep 08 - 04:41 PM Ha! I happen to know that God's opinion of the verdammt Republicans runs somewhat along this line: "Get ye hence, hypocrites and scoundrels! Thou hast worked dreadful and terrible wonders and, yea, the most vile crimes in my name, but when ye come to my gate for your expected reward I shall say 'Begone! I never knew you!'" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 02 Sep 08 - 04:47 PM That would sound mighty weird coming out of a hairdryer. Not sensible, like "Topple Iraq" or "Let the Big Easy drown". A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Sep 08 - 05:07 PM Well, most things sound kind of odd coming out of a hairdryer, don't you think, Amos? I recommend listening into those vent pipes on the roofs of buildings. It's much better for inspiration. There was a long, dark vent pipe, about 6 inch wide, coming out from the popcorn-making machines at the old movie house in town. It vented into an alleyway that debouched from the parking lot and it filled the air with the smell of popcorn. This may have been a scheme to entice people to buying more popcorn...or it may just have been a vent pipe, period...hard to say. At any rate, I used to go over to that vent pipe when passing by and put my mouth right up to it, and utter an inarticulate scream down it just for fun. It would echo weirdly down the pipe. I always wondered if the kids working inside behind the popcorn counter heard it and wondered what the hell it was. ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 02 Sep 08 - 05:44 PM A Radical Agenda Last week, the Republican Party put the finishing touches on its 2008 election platform, which the party will officially adopt this week at the Republican National Convention in St. Paul, MN. Many on the right have indicated that this year's platform represents one of the most conservative in the history of the party. For example, the legislative advocacy arm of the ultra-conservative Family Rights Council hailed the 2008 platform as the most "conservative, pro-life and pro-family platform in Republican party history." David Keene, chairman of the American Conservative Union (ACU), considers the platform "very conservative," while the ACU's vice chairman Donald Devine called the document "a vast improvement" over the 2004 platform. Indeed, the platform calls for constitutional amendments banning same-sex marriage and abortions, positions that, according to a recent Time Magazine poll, only 35 and 10 percent of Americans support, respectively. And while the document refrains from using the term "privitization," its "solution" to Social Security calls for giving workers "control over, and a fair return on, their contributions" to the program. LIP SERVICE ON THE ENVIRONMENT: To its credit, the 2008 GOP platform recognizes the human role in global warming and advocates long-term tax credits for renewable energy. However, the GOP's environmental platform is "loaded with caveats about the uncertainty of science and the need to 'resist no-growth radicalism' in taking on climate change." It also ridicules "doomsday climate change scenarios peddled by the aficionados of centralized command-and-control government." In effect, this approach endorses the Bush administration's climate policy, which has led to an increase in greenhouse gases. Moreover, unlike the 2000 and 2004 platforms' planks on protecting the Great Lakes and Everglades, the 2008 platform mentions neither. Also absent from the 2008 platform is any mention of mandatory federal emission cuts in a cap-and-trade program. While the party's presumptive nominee, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), has pushed for a federally mandated cap-and-trade program, he has walked away from it at various points during the campaign season. GOP VERSUS McCAIN: The 2004 platform "found 80 things to 'applaud,' 17 to 'hail,' a dozen to 'commend' and several hundred opportunities to say what a great job [President] Bush was doing and would continue to do." Yet this year's document contains only one mention of McCain, which is simply "in support of his candidacy and those of our fellow Republicans across the nation." Indeed, there are many areas of disagreement between McCain and his party. "The platform calls for a 'major expansion' of research involving adult stem cells but opposes embryonic stem-cell research, which Sen. McCain supports." The party's immigration stance is tougher than in 2004 -- when the GOP called for a "humane" immigration system with a temporary-worker program and a path for illegal immigrants "to come out of the shadows'' and apply for citizenship. This year however, the GOP opposes any plan that includes "amnesty" for undocumented immigrants, saying "the rule of law suffers if government policies encourage or reward illegal activity." McCain has previously supported a path to citizenship but his current position remains unclear, having declared securing the borders as his new number-one priority. Despite these disagreements, the McCain campaign reportedly plans to "run on the final version of the platform." From "The Progress Report" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Sep 08 - 07:45 PM You're ignoring me, aren't you? ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 02 Sep 08 - 07:48 PM I would never do that, LH. Thank you for entertaining the kids in the popcorn counter. I am sure you contributed to their spiritual superstitions. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Sep 08 - 07:51 PM I hope so. The kids in this town need all the help that way that they can get. ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 02 Sep 08 - 08:37 PM The convention is on in streaming video on my iMac. I am observing a lot of flags and country songs about waving flags. The music is weak and the speeches, so far, are weaker. Their platform seems to be that the country doesn't need social programs because kind Republican Congress people will take care of children in need and blond high school girls with squeaky voices will build houses for old people. more to come... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bobert Date: 02 Sep 08 - 08:52 PM Watching brain-dead people is not my idea of entertainment... Heck, McCain could have chosen Charles Manson for VP and these folks would be saying the same stupid brain-dead stuff... Good time to catch up on some well overdue sleep... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,Jack The Sailor Date: 02 Sep 08 - 09:00 PM The Republicans found a musician, she was introduced as an acclaimed singer songwriter. She was just doing Karaoke with a guy pretending to play guitar. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,Jack The Sailor Date: 02 Sep 08 - 09:16 PM I think I just observed a dude in a Lincoln Suit. Weird...... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 02 Sep 08 - 09:49 PM The platform articulated and adopted by the Republican Party can be read here at http://www.gop.com/pdf/PlatformFINAL_WithCover.pdf; but I should warn you it is so glossed, flossed, candied up and overloaded with fuzzies that it creates effect articulated just above by Bobez. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: CarolC Date: 02 Sep 08 - 10:14 PM It's really interesting to watch Laura Bush's head while she speaks. She shakes her head in the negative (like people do when they're saying "no") when she says things like "John McCain is a man of integrity" and things like that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,Jack The Sailor Date: 02 Sep 08 - 10:14 PM If Palin is in the building Fred Thompson may be in mortal danger. He is bellowing like a bull moose. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 02 Sep 08 - 10:15 PM T. PAUL, Minn. -- Defending his policies, President will tell fellow Republicans tonight that John McCain understands the dangers of the modern world and can lead the nation. In excerpts distributed by the White House, Bush will praise McCain via satellite. The long-distance appearance solves a political problem for the presumed GOP presidential nominee, who has sparred with Bush in the past. Where delegates will sit Network anchors flock to Republican... GOP convention Blog: Top of the Ticket 2008 electoral vote map ..." "We live in a dangerous world," Bush will say. "And we need a president who understands the lessons of Sept. 11, 2001: that to protect America, we must stay on the offense, stop attacks before they happen, and not wait to be hit again. The man we need is John McCain." Bush will be part of a parade of speakers tonight at the Republican National Convention, which was slimmed down Monday in the face of Hurricane Gustav's lashing of the Gulf Coast. With party regulars eager to resume the business of the convention -- nominating McCain and Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate -- the GOP is focused on establishing differences between their candidates and the Democratic ticket of Barack Obama and Joe Biden. ..." (LAT) "You'd think the 9-11 button would have had the paint worn off of it by now, George." "Oh, yeah, but I touched it up with some of Laura's cherry-toenail-enamel stuff. Hard as nails, that stuff. And a nice Danger color, don't yew thank?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 02 Sep 08 - 10:29 PM From: Amos Date: 02 Sep 08 - 09:49 PM The platform articulated and adopted by the Republican Party can be read here at http://www.gop.com/pdf/PlatformFINAL_WithCover.pdf; but I should warn you it is so glossed, flossed, candied up and overloaded with fuzzies that it creates effect articulated just above by Bobez. Not like Obama's...he was just all truth, with no exaggerations at all.. (hic) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: CarolC Date: 02 Sep 08 - 10:36 PM I'm coming to the conclusion that a much more appropriate name for the Republican Party would be the Nationalist Party. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 02 Sep 08 - 10:44 PM I am going to ignore that slur. Anyone who cannot assess the difference between Obama's speech and the Platform cited (despite their similarities which are granted) won't profit from any help from me anyway. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bill D Date: 02 Sep 08 - 11:15 PM I have been catching bits of this charade. It is beyond .....I am at a loss for words. Chris Matthews may have summed it up..."a campaign based on a guy's biography." Fred Thompson gave a day-by-day history of McCain's time in prison...well, almost. Then he said that although 'that doesn't qualify a man to be president, it shows character.' Right...we KNEW that. He's brave & stubborn. And Palin is ...ummm..conservative and umm.. dedicated...and... and they have Joe Liebermann to vouch for her. (I guess they are gonna keep her...McCain remaining stubborn and refusing to back down after a bad choice) As the camera pans the delegates, I see guys in suits, looking stern and proper, and 'plain' folk looking like they just ran out of a Pat Robertson meeting to make it to Minnesota. I'm sorry if I sound petty or something..but they DO!! I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. It is just plain startling to compare the laughing, cheering, inspired folks from Denver to this bunch of ..... never mind. So...sue me. I lost my 25 cents, anyway. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 02 Sep 08 - 11:22 PM An interesting contrast from the Selma-like busts going on outside the RNC is this anecdote from the DNC a few days earlier: "...An hour or so before Bill Clinton spoke on the third night of the convention, I received a text message from my friend with the terse missive "Massive march possibly violent" followed by a "Its getting crazy you should get over here." I arrived to find several hundred people—most of them teenagers and 20-somethings—milling outside one of the security barricades surrounding the Pepsi Center (the outer perimeter, not to be confused with the inner outer perimeter, the outer inner perimeter or the inner inner perimeter). The assembled protestors, ostensibly led by a group from Iraq Veterans Against the War, appeared to be domesticated, or at least housebroken. Still, a sizable contingent of riot police lingered nearby to monitor the situation. Then a loud, crackling voice boomed from a bullhorn somewhere beyond the crowd. "This is the Denver Police Department," the authoritative voice began. Ooooh, this is gonna be good. "We have bottled water and restroom facilities for anybody who needs them. We will also bring over a PA so that everyone who wants to speak will have a chance to do so."..." No comment needed. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Ebbie Date: 03 Sep 08 - 01:06 AM Tonight I have to face the fact that there is probably no hope for this nation and its people. On the one hand I recognize that the polarization of our political processes is dangerously non-productive. We need to talk. On the other, I listened to and watched some of the Republican Convention. There is no hope. I can't bear to listen to them. I had to turn it off. (I never realized before how sniggeringly smarmy Fred Thompson is.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bobert Date: 03 Sep 08 - 08:35 AM Ditto, Eb... These folks don't want to talk... They want to *****rule******!!! Their way or the highway... Very dogmatic... Yeah they will roll out the usual... Dems want to kill yer babies, burn yer flags, raise yer taxes and make yer kids marry a "queer"... Business as usual... Talibanish... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Donuel Date: 03 Sep 08 - 10:14 AM I observed the longest and Loudest applause came when Fred Thompson said that Palin would champion the anti abortion pro life agenda. The rest of the time people looked unsure bored and perplexed. tee hee..some didn't know what to do or if to walk out during Lieberman's chat. I took some GREAT photos of the convention last night. I even got GHWB pulling a one cheek sneak on Cindy McCain. Lots of looking at watches and napping overall What is it with the McCain kids? The girls looked dead pan troubled and seething with angst. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bill D Date: 03 Sep 08 - 10:48 AM Well....I'm glad it wasn't just me that saw all those things. I was afraid I was projecting or something.... (Oh, Ebbie....thanks! "sniggeringly smarmy"!!.. I was too aghast to find words.) (Yes, Bobert...they "want to rule". That IS the main difference I find between todays left & right... the Democrats/leftists hope you will agree with them, but they want to at least allow everyone to live, love, worship, assemble in their own way; while the Republicans/rightists want you to think like them: but if not, they wish to control what you can do and to impose standards of behavior, etc. on others.) (Yes, I KNOW they are not all like that, but the extremists that are having so much influence in the Republican party these days are SURE they have **truth from on high** as to how things should be done...and many of the delegates to this convention are from that extreme wing).) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: SINSULL Date: 03 Sep 08 - 10:59 AM Fred Thompson sounded as if he has lung cancer or emphysema. He ought to have that checked. I nearly fell off my chair when Lieberman starting touting the accomplishments of the Clinton administration. Had to leave my computer to check and see if this was the right convention. Lord how I despise the politicians on both sides. In case you haven't noticed - the Democrats want to rule too. It is all about power and money and has very little to do with our American dream, Mom and apple pie. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Donuel Date: 03 Sep 08 - 11:07 AM My photo of Thompson reading the tele prompter that was saying " all Obama can do is read a tele prompter"... is classic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bill D Date: 03 Sep 08 - 11:17 AM "In case you haven't noticed - the Democrats want to rule too. " That's pretty heavy...there is a big difference between 'rule' and 'be in charge'. I am VERY aware that one can find fault with any administration. There is just too much going on for any government to solve it all...or even please 'most of the people part of the time', but it IS possible to find someone whose 'intent' is to be fair, whether they manage well or not. I do not believe the Republicans intend to be fair....Obama at least sounds like he does...so far. That's how I'm gonna bet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: SINSULL Date: 03 Sep 08 - 11:35 AM Bill, In the United States, no one gets to be a president or governor or mayor by being fair. Politics is a game of power and money. "Obama at least sounds like he does..." He's running for office. Of course he sounds like he is fair. Once in office, reality sets in. There is no fair way out of Iraq. There is no fair way to fix Social Security. There is no fair way to make inner city schools as good as suburban ones. And so on and so on. There is no way to accomplish anything without compromise and closed door meetings and I'll scratch your back if you'll scratch mine. It is. This is what makes me so angry - his war could never have been if both sides didn't collude to bring it off. Both sides lied. Of the two I believe Obama will make the better president. I also believe that Al Gore would have made a better president and we would not be in this war had he won (well he did but that's another story). I am frustrated when election after election I see people dancing around convention floors pretending their candidate will change the world. Rant over. mary |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,heric Date: 03 Sep 08 - 01:35 PM "Gibbs stressed that it was a "flat-out lie" that Obama hasn't reached across party lines during his time in public office. Gibbs cited Obama's work with Sen. Richard Lugar, R-Indiana, to keep nuclear weapons out of the hands of terrorists." WTF???! Nonsense season heading towards Category 3. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 03 Sep 08 - 01:44 PM "Lord how I despise the politicians on both sides. In case you haven't noticed - the Democrats want to rule too. It is all about power and money and has very little to do with our American dream." That pretty well sums it up for me. I think Obama's the far better choice over McCain, but I see it as Mary does. Both parties are in it for the money and the power. If Obama is a genuine idealist (and he may be), then his biggest problem if he gets elected will be the fact that his own party will be directly in the way of him realizing his idealistic dreams...because his own party is utterly corrupt and self-serving. And the Republican Party is even worse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: beardedbruce Date: 03 Sep 08 - 02:01 PM BillD re Dems: "they want to at least allow everyone to live, love, worship, assemble in their own way;" There are some here who look at the Obama supporters as seen here, at the DNC, and as protesters, and do NOT see any indication that they believe in this manner. Just an observation from their actions... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 03 Sep 08 - 02:09 PM Well, consider that what they are protesting about, Bruce, is the creeping onset of fascism, the rebirth of meddling Puritanism, the undermining of core Constitutional provisions, and the invasion of individual privacy. The exact line where freedom to live, love, etc., as one elects gets into hot water is where it starts interfering with others' rights to do the same. Except for the small group of whackos who were violating the law, the protestors at the RNC were protesting the sad, toxic, side-effects of the last eight years of heavy-handed invasive Republican management. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: beardedbruce Date: 03 Sep 08 - 02:42 PM "Except for the small group of whackos who were violating the law, the protestors at the RNC were protesting ..." 1. it was the small group (234?) that was arrested, not the 5000 protesters. 2. I was complaing that it seems those wackos have support here, from the comments. 3. I have never stated that peaceful protest should be limited, not have I advocated the silencing of those with other viewpoint than myself- as many here HAVE done. 4. You seem to ignore the fenced in "free speech areas" at the DNC- except to note that the protesters there ( ie, those NOT supporting the DNC) were law-abiding and non-violent. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 03 Sep 08 - 03:04 PM This is the first I have heard of a free-speech area at the DNC. I suppose you saw thwe clip about the Denver police offering protesters water, restrooms and a PA system? IF there was such a thing I think it was a sh++tty idea. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bill D Date: 03 Sep 08 - 03:33 PM "...his own party is utterly corrupt and self-serving. And the Republican Party is even worse." Ummm..what exactly is worse than "utterly"? I simply differ...if I really were forced to believe such things, I would not bother to vote, but would move to a wilderness somewhere and live out my days. Short of armed insurrection, the only way to improve things is to find like-minded folks and work...I have NO illusions that all the Democrats I might find in positions of power in a new administration could be trusted totally, but the basic platform and stated goals & principles of Democratic leaders come a lot closer to what I strive for than the Republicans. I MUST try & hope. Bruce... lets not get into ANOTHER of those "I saw some who claimed to be on YOUR side behaving badly, therefore critiques of MY side are irrelevant" sets of premises. I don't (usually) care for anyone who uses public disturbance and intentional law breaking just to 'make a point'. There are reasonable demonstrations, but those who jam streets and intimidate officials whenever a group they don't like assembles don't impress me. I still think it IS possible to gradually assemble an administration who will strive to serve the public rather than just line their pockets and push folks around....and IF we have someone at the top who makes that a priority, we have to help him try. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: katlaughing Date: 03 Sep 08 - 09:44 PM These guys are so fucking hypocritical! This from a preview of what Guiliani is going to say...if it didn't work for him against McCain, he'll try it out on Obama: Mr. Giuliani, the former New York City mayor, began making the argument early Wednesday. “Barack Obama has never governed a city, never governed a state, never governed an agency, never run a military unit, never run anything,â€쳌 Mr. Giuliani said on the CBS “Early Showâ€쳌 in an interview the McCain campaign sent to reporters. If his formulation sounded a little familiar, it is because it was one of the few criticisms that Mr. Giuliani aimed at Mr. McCain during the heat of their primary fight, saying that he had “never run a city, never run a state, never run a government.â€쳌 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: catspaw49 Date: 03 Sep 08 - 10:53 PM Oh well, what the fuck................... 100 Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 03 Sep 08 - 11:12 PM "This is the first I have heard of a free-speech area at the DNC." I have attended three DNC conventions going back to 1976. Each one has a "free-speech area" where protestors are allowed to march. The Republicans do the same thing. Usually the area is kept close to the convention center so that everyone can have the feeling that their protests are heard. Take a look at some maps and see where the "free speech areas" were located this year. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: catspaw49 Date: 03 Sep 08 - 11:14 PM Tahiti? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 03 Sep 08 - 11:17 PM I should add- they do not always call them "free speech" zones, that is a term devised in recent years, but they set aside space where protests are allowed to march and give their message. They try to be close to the entrances so that they can reach the ears of the delegates. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 03 Sep 08 - 11:23 PM I watched Sarah speak. She is as good as anyone hoped she would be--clear eyed, clear-spoken, and a good crowd handler. She's a good entry-level politician. However as she started to get catty, and I had already sat through fifteen minutes of Rudy Nineeleveniani, so I put it away. She cleaves a good party line, mouths the platitudes correctly and well, and has good stage presence. She pushed all the hockey-mom buttons ahe could find. She did a fine job, and her adoring public ate it up. But she was less than honest about her accomplishments, implying yet again that she had rejected the Bridge to Nowhere from the beginning in favor of State self-reliance and taking credit for a State surplus without mentioning how many millions of Federal funds were included in it. NEvertheless, she is an impressive figure if not held down to details. It will be an interesting race, and I think McCain chose a good weapon to bring to bear against a formidable opponent. The policy proposals that the party faithful were reciting sound more and more like Obama's platform every day, but I think that is business-as-usual in politics when a proposition seems to be a winner. It would be nice if they gave credit. Giuliani himself was his usual dicky-boy self. And the rhetoric of the speeches he and Sarah gave were a little clanging and brassy, exalting McCain as the Furless Leader of Alle Tyme, which he is not, and sort of portraying him like one of those huge gilt statues they used to require people to erect in Russian towns back in the days of the Soviet machine. We will see. A A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 03 Sep 08 - 11:26 PM I agree with your post Amos .... and yes ... it will be an interesting campaign. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bill D Date: 03 Sep 08 - 11:29 PM Old joke: "When the law's against you, argue the facts. When the facts are against you, argue the law. When both are against you, call the other guy names & pound the table." I've been watching the speeches tonight. It's like that joke... "When your record's against you, argue policy. When your policy is unpopular, blow smoke about your record. When both are against you, wave the flag, call on God and slur the other guys" I think I have heard..BEFORE Palin spoke, 4-5 major speakers tell us in thinly disguised "Tax incentives for 'struggling businessmen' who will 'provide jobs' and blah, blah.." and John McCain thumbed his nose at Vienamese torturers, so he is obviously qualified to run the country.... and being mayor of a small town in Alaska is 'better experience' than being in the US senate and running a huge campaign of thousands of people with many millions of $$$$$ to allocate... and.............wow....we ALL love God, so.... *sigh* |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: olddude Date: 03 Sep 08 - 11:36 PM On top of that, the kids are adorable and that didn't hurt either. I miss judged her, she is formible |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 03 Sep 08 - 11:51 PM One other observation about Palin, as I watched her speech. She knew how to deflect the experience issue and the no-international-sensibility issue for public display purposes. She did this by larding her talk with quickly gleaned references to international spots as though she understood them. She didn't--they were sucked up in a fast cram of the situation papers and talking points, and she peppered them into her speech to make it taste as though she had those ingredients. In fact, it was a transparent and disingenuous gimmick. That's what I saw, anyway. Can't BS an ole BSer. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 03 Sep 08 - 11:59 PM I'm rather amused about the accusations on both sides regarding the "no experience" issue ..... politiks, pure politiks. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: katlaughing Date: 04 Sep 08 - 12:14 AM I heard a lot of lies and nothing of substance. A lot like your take on it, Bill. Notice how all the insiders claim to not be from the inside AND have tried to co-op the Dems call for "change" etc., etc.? They made it sound as if McCain never was in DC yet single-handedly brought about miraculous change and the past eight years have been WONDERFUL, but wait, not really because the Dems are in charge by 1-2 votes for the past couple of years. Arrgghhh...she looks good, sounds good, and can present herself, but that was to the party loyals. When she gets out there and has to wing it against Biden, etc. I don't think she will be able to hold it together. If she weren't a social extremist, I mght even like her and she does have good looking kids. Having been a pregnant teen I felt very sorry for her dau. and her boyfriend...it must seem a bit like a scarlet letter to have to stand up there for all the world to see. It reminds me of the shaming some churches would/do practice against kids who get in the "family way." I've seen it and it is ugly, hateful, and twisted. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: dick greenhaus Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:05 PM Just on the basis of listening pleasure, wouldn't an Obama/Huckabee ticket sound good. WOuldn't it be great if both parties would get around to discussing specific issues? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:55 PM It's all marketing. Remember that. They sell you the candidates the same way they sell you new deoderants, new cars, and new drugs. And with pretty much the same purpose in mind... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:15 PM YORK, Penn. -- Sen. Barack Obama dismissed the harsh criticism fired his way last night at the Republican convention as part of the problem in politics, asserting this afternoon, "At some point we've got to stop that and get serious." ...Obama refused to address Gov. Sarah Palin's mocking assessment of his background and political rise. When a member of the audience asked him to weigh in on the resume issue, Obama responded, "I'll let Governor Palin talk about her experience, I'll talk about mine." But he rebuked the GOP in general for focusing almost exclusively on biography in St. Paul, Minn., and for attempting to redraw old partisan lines. "You wouldn't know that this is such a critical election by watching the convention last night," said Obama. "I know we had our week, and the Republicans deserve theirs, but it's been amazing to me to watch over the last two nights." He continued: "You're hearing a lot about John McCain, and he's got a compelling biography as a prisoner of war. You're hearing an awful lot about me, most of which is not true. What you're not hearing is a lot about you." Obama has built his candidacy around a pledge to change business as usual in Washington, and for 19 months, he has had the stage to himself as an up-and-coming political wunderkind. Following her forceful speech last night, Palin is now being hailed as the conservative answer to Obama -- perhaps the spark that helps McCain to connect with the evangelical and rural voters who have never completely fallen for him. But as Obama aides and supporters digest the Palin speech, they believe it may signal the re-emergence of the very hard-edged politics that Obama has railed against, especially with disillusioned independents. How that may play out at the polls remains unclear. But these insiders believe it could help Obama to draw his own sharper distinctions about both the style and substance of the leadership he would provide. "The thing that I'm insisting on in this election is we can't keep playing the same political games we always play where we attack each other and we call each other names," said Obama. "They've had a lot of speakers. And if they had a bunch of ideas, you'd think they would have put 'em out there by now. And so the question is, what's their agenda? What's their plan?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Donuel Date: 04 Sep 08 - 05:12 PM It was like a dream...thousands of old Republicans chanting ZERO ZERO ZERO ZERO surreal to the max POKER HIGH STAKES |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Blissfully Ignorant Date: 04 Sep 08 - 05:14 PM An awful lot of scary make-up and badly fitted wigs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Ebbie Date: 04 Sep 08 - 05:35 PM Last night after the speechifying at the GOP convention, one station took phone calls from people all over the country. One woman's words have lingered with me today. She said that after the Democratic Party convention she felt hopeful and energized. After watching and listening to the Republican speeches she said, I just feel depressed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 04 Sep 08 - 06:35 PM (CBS) The presidential race between Barack Obama and John McCain is now even at 42 percent, according to a new CBS News poll conducted Monday-Wednesday of this week. Twelve percent are undecided according to the poll, and one percent said they wouldn't vote. This is in contrast to a poll conducted last weekend, where the Obama-Biden ticket led McCain-Palin by eight points, 48 percent to 40 percent. McCain has also closed the enthusiasm gap some with Obama, but it still exists. Fifty-five percent of Obama's supporters are enthusiastic about their choice, and now so are 35% of McCain's. Last weekend, just 25 percent of McCain's supporters were enthusiastic about him, compared to 67 of Obama's supporters. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: katlaughing Date: 04 Sep 08 - 07:15 PM Shall we compare polls...you can usually find one which will fit with your views. Remember, pollsters don't have cellphone numbers to call, so there are a lot of young voters out there who are not showing up in the equation, at least that's what I heard. Anyway, here's the poll I prefer, of course: Latest Gallup Poll: Obama's support firms up By Yael T. Abouhalkah, Kansas City Star Editorial Page columnist America's "swing" voters are turning to support Barack Obama at a faster clip than to John McCain, according to the latest Gallup Poll. Overall, Obama still leads McCain by a 49-43 margin. But the big news is that support for the Democratic nominee is firming up. Gallup says the registered voters saying they "are certain to vote for Obama" went up 6 percentage points -- from 36 percent before the Democratic convention to 42 percent after it. McCain's "certain" vote has moved up, too, but by only 3 percentage points -- from 34 percent to 37 percent. The stunning selection of national police novice Sarah Palin was figured into that equation. One caveat: The GOP convention doesn't end until Thursday night, when McCain will give his acceptance speech, one much less-hyped than the one given by Obama at Invesco Field last week. Still, McCain could see bump upward in his figures in the coming day or two. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bobert Date: 04 Sep 08 - 07:51 PM Polls are meaningless at this point... McCain is not going to be able to run out the clock between now and election day and will have to stand for something other than personal attacks... The debates will mark the beginning of this campaign 'cause McCain won't find any place to hide in them... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Ed T Date: 04 Sep 08 - 07:57 PM The democrat reps spoke (from much-researched and prepared texts) to an already comitted republican crowd, and the media (with supporting pundant hacks) and the already comitted sucked it up. The republican reps spoke (from much-researched and prepared texts) to an already committed crowd, and the media (with supporting pundant hacks) and the already comitted public sucked it up, Is there really any difference, or surprises in this type of old stuff? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Donuel Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:37 PM After Palin called for a war on the east coast liberal elitist media last night, Tom Brokaw mentioned that a couple delegates shook their fist at him in jest but 3 other delegates actually tried to assault him. I only wish they had, not to hurt Tom but to show what they do to the ditto heads in this country when they call for hatred and intolerence against specific groups of Americans. In Kentucky a guy just killed three members of the Unitarian Church because of his extensive Limbaugh training in the hatred of liberals. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:43 PM John McCain, as I write, is giving his acceptance speech. Up until five minutes ago he was steadfast, spoke from strength and conviction, and was persuasive, although he sounded like a white Obama in some places. But then, like Palin the night before, he started offering lies about his opponent, and then asserting how he was better than the lies. This is tawdry stuff, not to the issues, and predicated on falsehood despite all his assertions of virtue. So once that started, I shut it off. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:48 PM Real Clear Politics maintains a composite which integrates all the major polls, which tends to smooth out the bumps for those that are biased by their methods one way or another. For the last few days Obama leads by about four points. Some of the component polls: RCP Average 08/29 - 09/03 -- 47.6 43.2 Obama +4.4 CBS News 09/01 - 09/03 734 RV 42 42 Tie Gallup Tracking 09/01 - 09/03 2771 RV 49 42 Obama +7 Rasmussen Tracking 09/01 - 09/03 3000 LV 50 45 Obama +5 Hotline/FD 08/29 - 08/31 805 RV 48 39 Obama +9 CNN 08/29 - 08/31 927 RV 49 48 Obama +1 Make no mistake, John is an impressive man--soft spoken but persuasive. I thought it very classy of him to preamble his remarks with a gesture of respect toward Mister Obama. But, as with Palin, when the gloves came off, the fight got dirty. In my book this is not integrity, it is pandering to mass emotion. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:58 PM From the Progress Report, a couple of pointed rebuttals: TERRORISM -- GIULIANI: BY REFUSING TO USE THE TERM 'ISLAMIC TERRORISM,' LIBERALS ARE TRYING NOT TO INSULT TERRORISTS: Last night, in his address to the Republican National Convention, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani criticized Democrats for refusing to use the term "Islamic terrorism." "For four days in Denver, the Democrats were afraid to use the term 'Islamic terrorism.' ... I think they believe they will insult someone. Please tell me, who they are insulting if they say, 'Islamic terrorism,'" he said. He concluded, "They are insulting terrorists!" Experts, including those in the Bush administration, disagree; such religious rhetoric is actually counterproductive in combating terrorism. The Department of Homeland Security argues that U.S. officials who invoke references to Islam in describing terrorism may be "unintentionally portraying terrorists, who lack moral and religious legitimacy, as brave fighters, legitimate soldiers or spokesmen for ordinary Muslims." The National Counter Terrorism Center urges public officials to "avoid labeling everything 'Muslim'" because "it reinforces the 'U.S. vs. Islam' framework that Al-Qaeda promotes." CIVIL LIBERTIES -- POLICE CHARGE RNC PROTESTERS WITH TERRORISM: Yesterday, county protesters charged eight Rrepublican National Convention protesters with "conspiring to cause a riot as part of a terrorist act." The County Attorney "said she could not recall no such case in her 24 years with the prosecutor's office." A lawyer representing several of the suspects "called the charges ridiculous," saying the accusations are "an effort to equate publicly stated plans to blockade traffic and disrupt the RNC as being the same as acts of terrorism." As of yesterday, nearly 300 protesters and journalists have been arrested in the Twin Cities. Salon's Glenn Greenwald called St. Paul "the most militarized I have ever seen an American city be...with troops of federal, state and local law enforcement agents marching around with riot gear, machine guns, and tear gas canisters, shouting military chants and marching in military formations." Some journalists, including Democracy Now's Amy Goodman and two producers for her show, as well as an AP photographer, have been swept up in police arrests; CNN commenter Donna Brazile "was hit by pepper spray as she walked into the Xcel Center" earlier this week. The media and the St. Paul mayor have been largely silent on the outrageous arrests, with Mayor Chris Coleman (D) defending the police's actions |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: SINSULL Date: 05 Sep 08 - 08:23 AM Almost 700 posts on Palin, her children, her anatomy, her her her and nothing on poor John's acceptance speech. This is laughable. The parts I saw were too well rehearsed right down to where to turn his head. I have such respect for this man's courage and integrity. But his speech was less than inspiring. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 05 Sep 08 - 10:19 AM McCain is not known for being a good speaker, where Palin is. Obama is known for being..uhhh...Hey, Can anyone list three of Obama's accomplishments?????? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 05 Sep 08 - 10:38 AM 1. HE got you to talk about him a lot. 2. He won the democratic nomination. 3. He got elected to Congress. I am so tired of this "name one!" shtick. Barack Obama's accomplishments and his platform policies are all laid out in print. Go look them up your self. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: pdq Date: 05 Sep 08 - 10:45 AM " I have such respect for this man's courage and integrity. But his speech was less than inspiring. Yes, John McCain is not a great orator and never has been. What you see is what you get, as much as is possible in a US president. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: SINSULL Date: 05 Sep 08 - 10:59 AM I have to admit, although I am not impressed by his choice of rnning mate, if McCain were to win I would not be as emabarrassed and devastated as I was with the results of the last election. He has my respect and can be relied upon not to act like a goofus. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: olddude Date: 05 Sep 08 - 11:00 AM I am a supporter of Obama - strong supporter, however, I liked John McCain's speech. It appeared to me more of the maverick that I respected for a lot of years and thought he lost it recently. He seemed to have found it again so I suspect it will be a race from here on. I do feel better with what I heard that I perhaps won't be getting another GW III next year at a least no matter who gets in. I take back my Palin slams also, the lady is smart and presents herself well if you agree with her or not. She is not a light weight at the podium. I think it will be a good race from here on out |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: pdq Date: 05 Sep 08 - 11:14 AM It looks like McCain will be less divisive than most of the last 6 or 8 presidents, but it seems odd why some prove divisive and others not. Nobody was more partisan then Jimmy Carter yet the public image is "nice guy". Both "nice guy" and "bipartisan" fit Gerald Ford, but he took as much criticism as the rest. Dumped after one term. Our polarized party system simply means that the "other guy" must be destroyed. As my daddy said: "you wouldn't like it if'n it was good!". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 05 Sep 08 - 11:20 AM SINS: I had discussed John's speech just the evening before you posted that no-one had. So what, am I chopped liver? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: beardedbruce Date: 05 Sep 08 - 12:11 PM Amos, McCain: 1. HE got you to talk about him a lot. 2. He won the Republican nomination. 3. He got elected to Congress multiple times. 4. He actually has shown that he will work with the other party. 5. He nominated a woman for VP. 6. He has actually put his life on the line for this country. 7. He has actaully been in combat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 05 Sep 08 - 12:16 PM THATS what I thought!!! You can't list any accomplishments of Obama!!! Anyone??????? I guess its not important that he is all hot air, isn't it??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: irishenglish Date: 05 Sep 08 - 12:23 PM Sorry Guest of a guest of sanity, no one wants to play. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Sep 08 - 12:36 PM Bruce, there are two of your items on the list for John McCain that have never and probably will never be listed as good reasons to vote for a politician in Canada: 6. He has actually put his life on the line for this country. 7. He has actaully been in combat. So what? What does that have to do with serving in any civilian political office and doing it competently? This is a crucial difference between American and Canadian society. Americans take their national love affair with militarism for granted and they imagine that it's a good thing. It isn't. You know what a soldier is? He's a totally ordinary person who gets trained to do what an ordinary person never would, and then gets put in an extraordinary situation, and under great stress, and in terrible danger. He's a bit like a cop on duty...only more so. His life gets put on the line in battle...and when it does he fights, and he fights for several reasons. Number one is just to stay alive! Number two is to protect his buddies who are beside him. Number three is because he's been rigorously trained to follow orders, and he's used to doing so. Number four is that it's natural to fight back when someone else is trying to kill you. Number five is that he will be accused of cowardice and desertion and be in very deep shit if he doesn't fight back. Number six is because he's patriotic to his own nation and his army. And so on.... You can juggle the numbers around some as to which reason bears greater weight in which individual. They're all important. Now does any of that qualify a person to be nominated to a civilian political office, elected to it, and to serve in that role? Nope. It's got nothing to do with it. The talents required to survive in combat on a battlefield are not the talents required to deal with bureacracies, communicate with other people in committee, understand law and economy, form policy, and relate to the constituents in your riding. So just forget it. All this hoo-ha in American politics about war heroes is just crass pandering to emotional stereotypes that you have gleaned from a couple of hundred years of militarism and many decades of dumb John Wayne and Rambo type action movies. It's pathetic, frankly. It's the kind of thing that is done in countries whose business is going out (like the Romans or the Stalinists or the Nazis) and conquering further empires for the greater glory of the realm. It's the credo of extremists. It is what is done in the most dangerous nations on the face of the Earth at any given time in history. They all worship militarism and they bring it directly into their civil politics. The result? More wars of aggression. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: beardedbruce Date: 05 Sep 08 - 12:43 PM LH, I would rather have the person deciding whether to send troops into harm's way to have some idea of what he is doing- ie, to have been there himself. One of Bush's failings- but more so Clinton's. The ability to place one's country above one;s self seems a good thing to have, if one wants to lead a nation. Just my opinion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: SINSULL Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:01 PM Chopped liver? You, Amos? Definitely, US Prime. Sorry. The lack of comments on McCain's speech was glaring in comparison to Palin's. Made me wonder who was running for president. Beef not liver, I mean. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: SINSULL Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:05 PM BB Only war veterans for president? You can't mean that. Mary |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bill D Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:06 PM " The ability to place one's country above one;s self seems a good thing to have..." why, sure!! But where does one get the idea that saying McCain does also indicates Obama doesn't? There is a constant, repetitive theme of attempting to portray Obama as 'not patriotic', as someone who has not accomplished much, as 'not having been IN the military (as if BEING in makes one qualified to lead)...etc. If Hillary had been nominated, I suppose her lack of military service would have disqualified HER! In the last analysis, people MUST judge a couple of things. Which individual seems more aware, honest, competent and reasonable....and which party seems more trustworthy, honest, reasonable...etc. I hope the voters in general well decide that the Republicans have made a big enough mess that, even IF many think McCain is a decent guy, electing him will leave **the same basic administration, power structure & policies** in place, and that they do not deserve 4-8 more years! Let them sit back, regroup, cleanse the party of the far-right extreme group, and try again after some of the wounds have healed. I also hope they will listen to Obama's plans and be **FAIR** in judgment of his character & competence and not allow more Karl Rove tricks and 'swiftboat' campaigning to keep them from making a REAL change...not the superficial change that McCain represents. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:10 PM I understand your opinion, Bruce. I think, though, that it's cynical pandering to manipulate a population's vote in the manner that is being repeatedly done in the USA, by appealing to people through their idolization of military power and military experience. Such pandering is characteristic of aggressively militaristic societies that are bent on further conquest. If you study history, you'll find lots of evidence to support what I'm saying. Is a soldier truly placing his country above himself when he fights in a war? Perhaps. But not necessarily. He may just be someone who just needed employment, so he went into the armed forces. He may be someone whose family has a tradition of serving in the military, and he thought it would be a good career. How can you know for sure what is going through a soldier's mind when he first enlists and when he's eventually put under fire? He may just be trying to survive when that happens. If so, how does that equate to placing his country above himself? You see, people are assuming a great deal when they assume that soldiers are necessarily more self-sacrificing or patriotic in their intrinsic nature than civilians are. They're judging the book by the cover. Soldiers, like other people, come in all types. Some are idealists. Some are pragmatists. Some are organization men. Some are individualists. Some are criminals or fools. Some are stupid men. Others are brilliant men. The job description does not determine the character or motivations of the man, and it should not be used to imply that he would make a better politicial candidate than a man with a different job description. It's no reason to elect a person to political office. You elect a person to political office because of things like: intelligence ability to communicate effectively experience in governing and leadership honesty and good character emotional maturity self-confidence and ability to lead steadiness and reliability when under stress stated policies and ideas physical health and vitality sufficient to do the job evidence of sanity ;-) Agreed? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: beardedbruce Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:11 PM Read Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" ( the book, not the movie) There is a discussion about who should be able to vote( in that society)- a criteria is GOVERNMENT SERVICE for a time ( two years, or as required by the government), in whatever position the government wants to put you in. NOT your choice- You sign up, and serve. You can quit at any time ( except actually in combat) but then you do NOT get to vote- EVER. Those serving DO NOT vote until they leave service- If you become career military (or government) YOU do not vote until you retire. Do YOU want someone running the country who would not demonstrate that they put the country above their own interests? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: beardedbruce Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:14 PM NOTE: Government service also includes nursing, teaching, etc- WHATEVER the government thinks it can run better than private individuals. Not a perfect system, but then, what is? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: dick greenhaus Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:14 PM Anyone remember Disney's Jungle Book? Trusssssssssssssssst me... The logic seems to be that, in order to change a government that has screwed up for eight years, we must elect the party that controlled that government for the past eight years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: beardedbruce Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:17 PM And military service does NOT show if one has self-confidence and ability to lead steadiness and reliability when under stress physical health and vitality sufficient to do the job? I did NOT say it was the only thing to look at, but it gives information lacking in the career of a well-spoken lawyer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Ebbie Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:19 PM Little Hawk, perfectly put. Sometimes and on some subjects I don't agree with you but in my opinion these last two posts of yours are beautifully thought out and phrased. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,Neil D Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:21 PM In an unexpected reaction to Gov. Palin's speech of Wednesday night, Sen. Obama's campaign received $10 million dollars in donations on Thursday. Close to a single day record. The more the networks played attacking sound bites from the speech, the more the money kept rolling in. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: beardedbruce Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:23 PM "evidence of sanity ;-)" Running for public office in this country??? ANY one who choses to run has shown a lack in this area. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:23 PM I've never been well impressed by Heinlein's ideas of what makes good human psychology. I think he's naturally inclined toward a form of masculine authoritarianism that I do not empathize with at all. However, I see no harm in a society that is genuinely defensive, like Switzerland, having a period of mandatory military service for its young people. They're not doing it so they can invade someone else. They're doing it to protect their own nation and have everyone take equal part in that. I respect that. I respect any society that genuinely intends to protect its own borders and not to attack its neighbours or someone on the other side of the world. Great powers do not generally have such honest intentions. Not now, and not in the past. They think in terms of empire. They live by preying upon weaker nations. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:24 PM Heh! You make a good point in that last post of yours, Bruce! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: curmudgeon Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:25 PM Bb asks, " Do YOU want someone running the country who would not demonstrate that they put the country above their own interests? " No. We've had that for the past eight years - Tom |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: beardedbruce Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:33 PM LH, you state "I respect any society that genuinely intends to protect its own borders and not to attack its neighbours or someone on the other side of the world." Please move up to the present, and rememeber that the other side of the world is now less than 45 minutes away by ballistic missile. ALL of the world are now neighbors- and if a neighbor violates the law, endangering YOU, would you just sit in your uard and ignore it? We have laws that some ( child molesters and such ) HAVE to act in certain ways ( avoiding schools and playgrounds) When they violate these rules, they are punished- EVEN IF THEY HAVE NOT COMMITTED an illegal action otherwise. Saddam was told, after Kuwait, to act a certain way. He chose not to, and was punished ( after repeated efforts by the UN, and a last and final chance to comply) Has the US attacked Canada? Or Mexico ( since 1915)? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bill D Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:37 PM well,I doubt that Heinlein's theories will convince too many folks here... But no matter who says so, it simply does not follow that military/government service SHOULD be a requirement for either voting or public office. First...we could not afford to have everyone in service for 2-3 years. (that can 'sorta' be done in smaller countries like Israel, but it would be silly to even attempt it here. Second...there are plenty of better reasons for denying certain folks voting privileges. You want to open THAT can of worms? (gee...I was only in ROTC for 2 years. Does that either qualify or disqualify me? How about you?) Bruce...you gotta start dealing with what IS instead of vague theories....and what IS, is that the Republicans have so many bad marks right now that NO ONE should allow them another 4 years. I'm aware that many would vote Republican if the candidate's horns & tail were showing, but maybe enough swing voters will admit that it's time to allow a Democratic president AND congress a chance to clean up this mess! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: beardedbruce Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:52 PM BillD, And the fact that Dem have had control of Congress for two years, and things have gotten worse? I'm aware that many would vote Democrat if the Democratic candidate's horns & tail were showing, and the Republican candidate' angel wings were spread wide for all to see. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: irishenglish Date: 05 Sep 08 - 02:05 PM So for all the Republicans who have been lambasting Obama for his willingness to sit down with leaders, even those deemed to be "dangerous", what do you say to Condoleeza Rice's visit with Gadhafi? Seems like a bit of a double standard to me. Yes, I am aware they have been taken off the state sponsored terrorism list, and sanctions were eased, etc, etc, but still-he was one of the most reviled leaders to Americans not so long ago. Families of the Lockerbie flight victims are furious at this. Personally, I still don't trust the man. If Obama was the one meeting him, he would be raked over the coals for this, no question about it. All the Limbaughs and O'Reilly's and Hannity's and Beck's would tear him to shreds, but somehow its ok for Rice? Sorry, don't think so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Sep 08 - 02:30 PM Your error, BB, is in assessing who is genuinely in danger from whom in the world right now. The German population in the late 30's made the same sort of error. Their politicians fooled them. Yours are fooling you, and in a very similar fashion. It is the wolf that is crying "wolf!" as he leads you to the ballot box. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 05 Sep 08 - 02:34 PM Also, it is not very accurate to say the Dems have had control for two years and things have gotten worse. It is a transparent attempt effort at shifting the responsibility. The Dems were not "in control" despite a marginal majority. And they were bucking a Republican administration in full voice and heavy with vetos and signing statements. It is a pretty poor excuse for the ravages of the Administration's bungling to say that the Dems have worsened things over the last two years. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: beardedbruce Date: 05 Sep 08 - 02:35 PM Your error, LH, is in assessing that you know who is genuinely in danger from whom in the world right now. Each of us have to decide, based on the information that we can get, what the real situation is. I am open to ANY source of information- but try to judge the truth of that information based on the source and known facts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: beardedbruce Date: 05 Sep 08 - 02:38 PM Amos, You agree things got worse over the previous 6 years- yet YOU blame them on the Bush admin, and do not allow other considerations. So, The Dems have had control of Congress for two years: Have things gotten better or worse? If worse, I have as much right to blame them as you have to blame Bush for the previous 6. And yes, things DID get worse over that time, but the RATE of decline has been steeper with a Dem. comntrolled Congress. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Sep 08 - 02:50 PM Who is the USA presently in danger from in a military sense, BB? And how? You tell me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Riginslinger Date: 05 Sep 08 - 02:54 PM The US is currently being invaded by illegal aliens from Mexico and all points south. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 05 Sep 08 - 02:57 PM Der Spiegel remarks: For Republican presidential candidate John McCain, it was the biggest night yet of his campaign. He spoke about change and reform. But the message was a different one -- namely that he is a very conventional candidate. ... Bruce: The asserted premise of your post--that the Democrats controlled Congress (and by implication, controlled the lawmaking process) between 2006-2008 is very flimsy. I would counter by pointing out that the condition of the nation in 2006 was so recklessly mismanaged that it is ingenuous to believe that the thin Dem majority was the necessary and complete remedy. It surely was not. However, if you will vote for Barack Obama and persuade your friends to as well, we may be able to acheive some real, positive good in the near future. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Sep 08 - 03:10 PM That's true, Rig, and it's happening because of gross economic disparities between North America and Latin America. It's an economic and social problem, not a military one. What's your solution? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 05 Sep 08 - 03:10 PM " Who is the USA presently in danger from in a military sense, BB? And how? You tell me. " Let me see: North Korea - known to have WMD, presently not complying with agreements Syria- suspected of having WMD program, unknown status Iran- known to have WMD, uranium enrichment, and active ballistic missile programs Other unknown non-state entities such as Al-Quida |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Sep 08 - 03:23 PM BB - Ha! I laugh. There is so little chance of North Korea, Syria, or Iran ever attacking the USA with an atomic missile that you'd be about as well off to worry about receiving such an attack from Jupiter or Mars. It is your country, BB, that is menacing them and it always has been. It is your country that surrounds them with its military forces and threatens they repeatedly and suggests that "all options are on the table" (meaning even a nuclear strike on Iran by USA forces). That is why they are so desirous of arming themselves in such a way as to deter such an attack. As for the unknown secretive entities like Al-Queda...yes...they are some danger to the USA. But the danger they pose to you is very small compared to the danger you pose to other countries, and it is a response to prior American intervention and gross interference in many other societies. It would not be happening at all if the USA had left those people alone for the last few decades since WWII. You didn't leave them alone because you were out playing the game of world empire. Well, you poke the hornet's nest long enough, you beat up on people long enough, and eventually some angry ones will come out and sting you...but YOU were the one who decided to poke the hornet's nest in the first place. You sewed the wind. You (as a political entity) are NOT the victims in this matter, you are the perpetrators. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: irishenglish Date: 05 Sep 08 - 03:26 PM And at no point, knowing based on the best information you can get Bruce, at no point would you-as President, sit down with leaders of the first three (the fourth being essentially impossible)? Seems to me some of the best US diplomacy in the Cold War has been based on a balance of tough talk, action, AND diplomacy, ie, meeting with your enemy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 05 Sep 08 - 03:43 PM irishenglish, Like both Obama and McCain ( and BUSH) I would certainly talk with them- but I would be prepared to take military action when the talks did not result in a cessation of uranium enrichment. The WORLDVIEW ( not the reality, but what Iran THINKS ) is that Obama would not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 05 Sep 08 - 03:52 PM AP: "McCain never seemed truly comfortable with the TelePrompter, and his physical moves were stiff and awkward due to his war injuries. He would smile broadly at odd junctures. Yet the speech had many "stark, simple and eloquent" lines, said ABC's George Stephanopoulos, one of Palin's few critics the night before. CNN's Anderson Cooper said he heard more specifics from McCain than from Obama. Some of McCain's toughest critics in punditry came from what you'd expect to be friendly territory. "John McCain has proved that he's not going to win this election with oratory," said Alex Castellanos, a Republican consultant working for CNN. Fox analyst Karl Rove called his speech "workmanlike" and "not all that great." "It was a strange speech, a strange week, a strange convention," analyst Charles Krauthammer said on Fox, "and yet I think it was effective." David Gregory and Chris Matthews on MSNBC, a network Republicans have criticized for giving big roles to personalities like Keith Olbermann who back Barack Obama, said the convention had given some hope to Republicans. " |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: dick greenhaus Date: 05 Sep 08 - 03:52 PM BB- You've obviously set the US up as the cops of the world. Now who pays the salaries of the force? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: irishenglish Date: 05 Sep 08 - 03:54 PM Well, its all a military solution then I guess. If Condoleeza Rice doesn't like what she hears right now as we speak from Gadhafi, then I guess we better be braced for another war. And Sarkozy was just talking with Bashar al-Assad, maybe I should start stockpiling on the dry goods what with your rosy assesment. Again, I say, diplomacy, tough talk, then action-not diplomacy, action, tough talk. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: irishenglish Date: 05 Sep 08 - 03:57 PM Dick-Barack Obama will, since he's outspending McCain. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 05 Sep 08 - 04:08 PM diplomacy, tough talk, then action WHICH is what EVERYONE has said- AND I do not disagree with. The point I am trying to make is that the WORLDVIEW ( What others think will happen) is that Obama WILL NOT take action if it involves military force. IT DOES NOT MATTER if that is so or not- IF Iran (political leaders) THINK that, they will act as if it ture, and we will be in a nuclear war. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Riginslinger Date: 05 Sep 08 - 04:12 PM "What's your solution?" Air lifting birth control pills to Latin America, and dropping them on the waiting crowds below would probably be better than bear traps on the border. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 05 Sep 08 - 04:13 PM WW I and WW II were both examples- In WW I, each side did ot think the other would react. In WW II, Germany thought that, since there was no action taken re earlier attacks, they were free to take Poland. If Iran THINKS it can make and use a WMD without being destroyed, it will act on it's past words. Doesn't matter that it will be destroyed- IRAN has to think that it will be hurt, and the present worldview is that it would not be. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 05 Sep 08 - 05:41 PM Let me see... The large audiance for Obama's speech indicates his popular support... September 05, 2008 Breaking: McCain beats Obama by 500,000 John McCain has won the ratings race. The Republican nominee beat Democratic challenger Barack Obama's record-setting convention speech viewership by 500,000. McCain's address at the Republican National Convention on Thursday night was seen by about 38.9 million viewers, according to Nielsen Media Research. Obama received 38.4 million. That means McCain's speech is now the most-watched in convention history -- 41% higher than President Bush's acceptance speech four years ago, and 1% higher than Obama's address last week. Looking at the speech's audience demographics, McCain drew significantly more male viewers than Obama (16.2 million). McCain also drew more white viewers (32.2 million), while Obama was seen by more African Americans. Though anticipation has been running high for McCain's address, the speech also may have benefited slightly from a strong NFL lead-in on NBC. Initially Republicans feared McCain might have to compete with the game for viewers' attention. But the NFL match started early, then put about 13.6 million viewers on the doorstep of NBC's 10 p.m. coverage of McCain's speech. Still, NBC has aired the most-watched convention coverage among the broadcaster nets all week, and its numbers compared to rivals were not much different than on previous nights. In other words: the game may have helped, but it wasn't a major factor in McCain's massive viewership (even with the NBC receiving an NFL lead-in, Fox News is expected to win the network-by-network breakdown). Also, with interest in his running mate Sarah Palin spiking viewership for the RNC on Wednesday, the convention was able to gain some significant momentum after losing its first night to Hurricane Gustav coverage. McCain received 5% more viewers than his running mate. UPDATE: FOX NEWS: 9.1MILLION NBC: 8.7 MILLION ABC: 6.0 MILLION CBS: 5.3 MILLION CNN: 4.8 MILLION MSNBC: 2.5 MILLION (from 10 p.m. to 11:15 p.m.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: DougR Date: 05 Sep 08 - 05:48 PM I've been a bit discouraged about the presidential election in November but feel a bit more encouraged now. I didn't think the conservative wing of the Party would ever accept John McCain primarily because of his joining with Ted Kennedy to try to pass a bill in the congress that would give amnesty to illegal aliens already in the US. I believe, after the very successful convention in St. Paul, though, that we have a chance to keep the White House in Republican hands. Even the doom and gloom being spread by the mainstream press about our losing seats in the senate and house may have been over exaggerated. I recall discussions we had here on Mudcat about the elections in 2000 and 2004 and, as some of you may recall, I was feeling pretty "down" and feared that Gore in 2000 and Kerry in 2004 might beat Bush. It didn't turn out that way, though, and 2008 may prove to be a repeat. I feel good now. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bill D Date: 05 Sep 08 - 05:55 PM Bruce...I am late in responding but: "have had control of Congress for two years, and things have gotten worse?" What Amos said...and you sidestepped and evaded. A tiny majority is hardly control....especially when Bush made clear he'd veto anything of significance, and use signing statements to avoid congress even having any input on new measures. GET THIS STRAIGHT: Bush and Cheney and their minions have created this mess...and the many "running scandals", as Olbermann likes to call 'em, are paradigm examples of abuse of power and wasteful spending and impeachable offenses. Allowing 'most' of the same Republicans to continue down this path, just so the plan for eternal conservative rule can continue with no interruption is beyond 'bad'...it is stupid! Do I sound pissed off? Oh, good...I tried real hard. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bill D Date: 05 Sep 08 - 06:09 PM Doug R "...the conservative wing of the Party" is not voting FOR McCain... They are just voting AGAINST having ANY Democrats. They are making the best of what they consider to be an awkward situation. Romney & Huckabee and Guliani turned out to be sad caes as far as electability, and McCain, who was all but written off, turned out to be the only vaguely sane one they had. Choosing the lesser of several evils is hardly 'support'...at least WE are counting on weak national support for him! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bobert Date: 05 Sep 08 - 06:21 PM It's takes a major jump from logic to Obama as the one who is most apt to get US into a nuclear war... That is nothin' but empty proclamation.. Even Colin Powell is on record of stating that he believes Obama's vow to talks with our adversaries is the best approach to foriegn policy... As for being tough enough, I'd suggest that anyone who thinks that Obama is this whimp that bb and others would have you believe to go to South Chicago and just walk the streets... No, you don't have to knock on any doors or try to small businessmen to come and talk with folks about jobs, all you have to do is walk the friggin' streets... After you've done that come back and tell me again just why you think Obama ain't up to the job... Until then, you are just blowing smoke from the safety of your middle class homes... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: akenaton Date: 05 Sep 08 - 06:27 PM Why is that the "right" always have all the conviction? I didn't agree with anything Mrs Palin said, but her speech was a triumph. I agree wholeheartedly with Old Dude this ia a formidable lady. She positively glowed with conviction and wasn't afraid to say things which the media might presentto the public as being "right wing". This lady is proud of her right wing credentails and doesn't give a flying fuck who knows it. Contrast her fire with Obama's mealy mouthed rhetoric. His endless talk of "change"...to be sought like some elusive butterfly. Obama sounds as if he is ashamed of his opinions ,or maybe it's just that he doesn't have any opinions. Perhaps he is just an automaton created by the Democrat Party in its own image. I just wish the left could really start to believe in itself, but we seem to be held back by that old hypocrisy which has hung round our necks like an albatross for more than a century. There is enough injustice and corruption in American and UK politics to get us blazing mad, but still we look at the corrupt and say "there but for fortune,go I"...we don't yet really believe in the principles that we espouse. By comparison, the conservatives know they are right with an awe inspiring certainty(just look at Teribus, BB, Doug),do you think there is anything we can say which will dent their armour? I think, barring accidents, Palin/McCain might just win this election. If they do, it will have little to do with policies and everything to do with conviction....Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 05 Sep 08 - 06:31 PM Bobert, Don't tell me. I STATED THAT I DID NOT AGREE WITH THE VIEW that Obama would not do anything. READ MY POST! But it is the worldview that the IRANIANS have- and the mullahs are NOT living in South Chicago. If you do not understand this point, there is no point in even discussing this election. "It's takes a major jump from logic to Obama as the one who is most apt to get US into a nuclear war... That is nothin' but empty proclamation.." Not as empty as yours about McCain. I have stated the resons that I have come to my opinion- YOU have stated that McCain wants to keep troops in Iraq for a hundred years with no reasoning at all. "Even Colin Powell is on record of stating that he believes Obama's vow to talks with our adversaries is the best approach to foriegn policy..." AND McCain and BUSH have stated that talking is the firstline and preferred thing to do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: DougR Date: 05 Sep 08 - 07:32 PM Beardedbruce: Don't be too hard on Bobert. His Walgreen's reading glasses probably need a good cleaning. Ake:I think you lefties usually see the glass as half empty instead of half full. Righties see the glass as half full. Your world is viewed pessimistically and ours is viewed optimistically. I really believe that is the basic difference between the attitudes of lefties and righties. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 05 Sep 08 - 07:37 PM DougR, "I think you lefties usually see the glass as half empty instead of half full. Righties see the glass as half full. Your world is viewed pessimistically and ours is viewed optimistically" I think I have to disagree with you on this. I am a pessimist- I expect the worst. This means that I am rarely, if ever, disappointed: and often pleasantly surprised, when things go better than I expect them to. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bobert Date: 05 Sep 08 - 07:48 PM Quit your friggin' SCREAMING at me, bb... It just shows that you are a friggin' jerk who thinks that if you SCREAM loud enough at people it will make you right... It doesn't... It jjust makes you sound like a jerk... I don't read SCEAMING... Like about 99% of the folks here when I see it and I just go on past it because it shows that the person doing it has no control over themselves... You need to go back and get some parenting... Doug, Don't waste yer words... Like I said, I don't read SCREAMING stuff... I had enough mental cases when I was a social worker to last me a life time so whatever BB tried to say, I scrolled right on thru it... Plus, we learned in martial arts to leave mad people alone unless you have to physically protect yourself from them... BTW, I ain't a Walgreener... Prices too high... Think that joint is for rich folks... I do Costco and Martin's Grocery Store and I get meds thru the mail... My glasses??? Yeah, okay... They are old and prolly need to be replaced... Maybe next year... I gotta a CVS pair that works good... $12... Not too bad but but they work better than the $2 pair I got at the Page County Flea Market... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: katlaughing Date: 05 Sep 08 - 07:48 PM Thanks, DougR, for the biggest laugh I've had in ages! Never knew being positive meant I must be a Republican. My dad and mom will be turning over in their graves. I don't know how anyone could listen to the uplifting message of hope which I hear from Obama, along with specifics, and call us all pessimists. Bush and co. have been fear-mongering for years and have consistently given the American people nothing to feel optimistic about. They are the worst kind of pessimists as they can't keep from spreading it around to keep down as many people as possible. They are shameless in their mal-practice of what a good leader should be. The GOP is scared because THIS time we have a Democrat who is uniting Americans, not just Dems. AND, he is changing the way of campaigning, not taking any PAC money, refusing to get into the negative mud-slinging which is de rigeur for the Rovites. He is campaigning on a different level than usual and engaging ordinary citizens on a very personal and active level which the GOP will not be able to match. He is what the "next generation" has been looking for and I see them everyday. It's amazing to me how many young people are finally involved and excited. THAT's our country's future and Obama is the one they want to bring it about. May it be so! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 05 Sep 08 - 08:22 PM Bobert, I scream when you make a post telling me I said something that I did not say. If you can't bother to read what I write before you go off on your tirades, you deserve to be yelled at. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bobert Date: 05 Sep 08 - 08:31 PM Oh??? It's okay for you to twist the holy crap outta what other people say but not okay when someone does a little interpreting of what you are trying to say??? Hmmmmmmm??? No oe else but you SCREAMS here, bb... No one... You are the last of the SCREAMERS... I'm not even going to guess as to why you think that the rules of this forum apply to everyone but you... I'm sure a shrink could get to the bottom if it but, for the record, I don't read your SCREAMING so if you want to insure that I won't respond to one of your posts just SCREAM your way thru it... I'd be willing to bet that most people here don't read your temper tantrums either... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 05 Sep 08 - 08:37 PM Sorry, Bobert, but you are the one here who claims to be ubermensch. You insist on treating people the same way that you protest when *you* are treated- and complain if someone treats your candidate *half* as bad as you treat theirs. You reallly need to look in a mirror- are you sure you like the person that you have become? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Teribus Date: 05 Sep 08 - 08:51 PM Now I thought this rather good from our resident "historian" and "war gamer" - Little Hawk: "Bruce, there are two of your items on the list for John McCain that have never and probably will never be listed as good reasons to vote for a politician in Canada: 6. He has actually put his life on the line for this country. 7. He has actaully been in combat. So what? What does that have to do with serving in any civilian political office and doing it competently? This is a crucial difference between American and Canadian society. Americans take their national love affair with militarism for granted and they imagine that it's a good thing. It isn't. You know what a soldier is? He's a totally ordinary person who gets trained to do what an ordinary person never would, and then gets put in an extraordinary situation, and under great stress, and in terrible danger. He's a bit like a cop on duty...only more so. His life gets put on the line in battle...and when it does he fights, and he fights for several reasons. Number one is just to stay alive! Number two is to protect his buddies who are beside him. Number three is because he's been rigorously trained to follow orders, and he's used to doing so. Number four is that it's natural to fight back when someone else is trying to kill you. Number five is that he will be accused of cowardice and desertion and be in very deep shit if he doesn't fight back. Number six is because he's patriotic to his own nation and his army. And so on...." Right for a fact let us all just realise that Little Hawk is a complete and utter stranger to the world that he has pontificated on above. It is obvious that: A. He has never actually put his life on the line for this country. B. He has never actaully been in combat. LH how fuckin' dare you decry people who have actually done that for their country? 1. You (LH) certainly have not got the gumption to do it, nor would you ever have. Have the honesty to admit it, you hold your current freedoms entirely due to the efforts of others. 2. The US election process has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with you so why don't you just shut the fuck up. You LH sitting there, fat dumb and happy up there in Canada do so purely on the fact the United States of America GUARANTEES your freedom - FACT, just accept it. "6. He has actually put his life on the line for this country. 7. He has actaully been in combat. So what? What does that have to do with serving in any civilian political office and doing it competently?" Point one above shows that the man is prepared to put his country before himself. Point two above would tend to make on believe that he would think twice about putting people in harms way Of course Little Hawk it is taken as read that you would not recognise either of those concepts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bobert Date: 05 Sep 08 - 08:52 PM No, bb, you still don't get it... SCREAMING in Mudville is not an acceptable behavior any more than when Martin Gibson called another Catter a very fowl four letter word beginning with the letter "c"... Mudcat has been prurdy good about policing itself when people think that the rules are for ***other people***... You may not like my opinions but they are expressed within the confines of what is acceptable behavior here in Mudville... In over 14,000 posts I have never had one post deleted... I am not saying you have... What I am saying is that your SCREAMING is more apt to bring scrutiny down upon you than me not agreeing with you... You can take this as constructive criticism or not... Or perhaps you could write Joe Offer and ask him to explain why SCREAMING at people to prove points (be the points right or wrong) is not part of what makes this joint successfull... I'm sure there are plenty of other places where people SCREAM at one another... Maybe, seein' as you really aren't a muscian, would be in better company in one of those places... All I know is that when you SCREAM, you look like a jerk in an otherwise civil "folk music" joint... B~ BTW, I'm done with this subject for now so don't expect any more posts from me on your anti-social behavior... Seems that every year we have to have this same discussion and it's getting rather old so why not just.... ...grow up like every one else here!!! B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 05 Sep 08 - 11:39 PM BAck to the topic, I think the core thematic difference between the DNC and the RNC is the difference between an appeal to hope and an appeal to fear. McCain's platform, to the small degree he even articulated one, sounded like a pale copy of the Obama speech with a layer of militant fear painted over it. I decline to be terrorized. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Sep 08 - 12:32 AM I am not in any way decrying people who have done military service and put their lives on the line for their country, Teribus. I respect what they have gone through. I'm simply saying that having done so does not qualify them as being more suited to holding political office than other people are who weren't in the military. Period. Yet a person's having done military service is constantly used in American politics to influence voters to vote for him. It shouldn't be used that way. It is not used in Canadian politics to influence voters in that fashion. That is my only point. You claim that I attack or decry the military? Nope. I don't. Not at all. I respect the military. I merely say that military matters are a completely separate field of work from running a government (except in a military dictatorship, of course) and that having had expertise in the military field does not equate to having expertise in the field of governing, nor should it be seen to do so. The American political parties constantly try to hurt each other by beating the drums of patriotism and suggesting that the other guy is less patriotic than they are. That's extremely cynical, it's deliberate character assassination, it's a form of slander, and they should both stop doing it. But ha! I might as well wait for the ocean to stop rolling onto the shore...an equally predictable event. Remember John Kerry boasting about his three Purple Hearts, for heaven's sake? They (the Democrats and Republicans) both do it whenever they can. The only thing is, the Republicans clearly think they've got a monopoly on such patriotic heroics, and they're done such a good job for so long pretending that they do, that the American public seems to believe it. That's funny, in a sad sort of way. Goebbels would be really impressed, I think. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: katlaughing Date: 06 Sep 08 - 12:56 AM I'm simply saying that having done so does not qualify them as being more suited to holding political office than other people are who weren't in the military. Absolutely, LH. I hate it when any of them use that against their opponent. McCain et alia were particularly nasty about it this week, imo. They really were trying to put down Obama just because he hadn't "given" in the way McCain did. It seems McCain is going to run on that alone, from what I've heard...there must be something else he could trot out that is more recent and relevant to the administration of a civil government. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: katlaughing Date: 06 Sep 08 - 01:11 AM Here's the first part of Obama on the O'Reilly Factor in which they discuss diplomacy and action. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: meself Date: 06 Sep 08 - 03:34 AM BB: How can you be so certain as to what the Iranians think of Obama? And isn't it a little early in the game for them to have completely made up their minds about him? Especially considering that so many of the rest of us are still wondering about the guy, as his detractors are so fond of pointing out ... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: akenaton Date: 06 Sep 08 - 03:38 AM Er...conviction?...the left?....why has it all gone quiet? Even Martin Luther King had to evoke God to push the civil rights cause! We've got to start believing in ourselves ,just like the Conservatives do. These people cant be reasoned with, especially with half hearted calls for "change" sometime in the future. Change won't evolve it has to be fought for, and if we're not prepared to fight.... at least politically, the Right will smash us to pieces. We need a leader of conviction on the left, not a token black man, or a token woman. We also need to give that leader the space to make these convictions work....Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 06 Sep 08 - 03:47 AM So, I posted a simple question, and got a lot of nothing, and stupefying comebacks...but no answer! The reason I asked it was, what is the use of having a 'platform', if nothing in your political history shows that you did anything to work for it...OR...Did you ever set out to do anything, and finished accomplishing it?..other than a bunch of rhetoric? If a person, RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, has no record of ever standing for anything he says he is for, then how can you believe ANYTHING he says????? So, no sidestepping....What has Obama ever accomplished, in legislation, or in governing, that gives him any credibility, that I should vote for him????...If its real, and I agree, he gets my vote!..I just have no proof of anything about his record...and neither do some of his pom-pom carriers! On the other hand, if voting for him is a referendum on Bush, that may have some credulousness, but I'm not ready to put him in office, for that reason only....give me a good reason, ..more than the hysteria over him!....Amos?? irishenglish??..anyone???? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: akenaton Date: 06 Sep 08 - 03:54 AM Don't hold your breath guest! Saying the unsayable will get you banished. Here, we all like to talk about being progressive...:0) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 06 Sep 08 - 04:15 AM Hey, Ake..How ya' doing?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 06 Sep 08 - 04:16 AM Heyyyyy 200!...and still no answer~ ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 06 Sep 08 - 10:27 AM Hours later: Still no listing of an Governing accomplishment from Oblabbo!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Donuel Date: 06 Sep 08 - 10:44 AM I am thinking of a game called "Can you SPOT THE REPUBLICAN ???" From a series of photos from both the Dem and Rep conventions, your job would be to tell who are the republicans. From hundreds of photos I made from both conventions, the obvious, poignant and subtle differences are incredibly amusing - at least to me. Maybe a field guide to the type and species of Republican is in order. Akenaton, "Saying the unsayable will get you banished" I wonder if that is why only 4 people here ever respond to me. I do satire on occaision so I imagine some people clicked "remove member from view" not knowing what they really saw. for example I wrote... "I don't know about you, but I am feeling increasingly suspicious that even FOX news, on rare occaisions, is becoming slightly skewed toward certain agendas. They said that it is reasonable to ask questions about Sarah Palin's life and personal history. ABSOLUTELY NOT. Its nobody's business but her own. She has a right to privacy like anyone else. The attacks of the eastern liberal elitist MEDIA on Sarah B. Palin disgracefully shoot first and ask questions later. It has been revealed that the central pillar and FOUNDATION of the snobby elite left wing media is the scurolous magazine called 'Us Weekly', which printed scathing lies about; a beloved mother, Govenor, Mayor, celebrity, muck raking, moose shooting, God fearing, faith based energy reformer, who is loved and known to us all as Sarah B. Palin. Back off left wing media! Us Weekly subscriptions have been canceled and Christian soldiers are removing it from library shelves and stores. After we take down US "Weakly" magazine, with God's will, we will deal with all of 'US Weekly's fringe organizations like the New York Times and Washington Post. My name is Dawn Mauve Oralshoot and I approve this message, Amen" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 06 Sep 08 - 11:06 AM Hey Donuel, I'll respond to you, again...I think you are right..that is, to the point, of the personal integrity of that person, should be an indication of holding one of the highest positions in this country, if they are worthy of getting our vote. However, the media did(or tried) to do a grand slam slur on Palin, once it got out, how effective she was in slicing Obama to shreds, in her speech, at the convention, and how people responded to her, so overwhelmingly! The Obama campaign certainly didn't like sharing the 'celebrity like' spotlight with her..and why should they?....that's all Obama has going for him....certainly not anything he has actually done, while in office.... just his popularity for celebrity sake! ..and his bandwagon of pom-pom bearers!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 06 Sep 08 - 11:55 AM Guest: Either your memory is so bad you probably shouldn't vote, or you are reall lazy. Have you tried Google? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: katlaughing Date: 06 Sep 08 - 12:03 PM To those who respond to the say-nothing drivel of guest from sanity, how about NOT responding in any way...she just keeps coming back to post more abuse and nothing new...let's not keep feeding her. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bobert Date: 06 Sep 08 - 12:24 PM Yeah, GfS... Amos posted Obama's legislative accomplishments a month or two ago and it was a long, long list that I'm sure he diesn't want to retype... Maybe you could PM him and he'd tell you where to find it??? (Yo, Boberdz... GUESTs can't do that...) Oh, well, yer loss, GfS, but not to fear, the list was several screens long... Wored me out readin' it... As fir experience, looks as if the womenz is the only one qualified so howz President Barracuda sound to you??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: heric Date: 06 Sep 08 - 12:51 PM I finally got to watch the McCain and Palin speeches. For what little it's worth, here is one more person's opinion: To my great surprise, after all the accolades from people on both sides, I was unimpressed and uncomfortable with Palin's speech. I felt as if I were watching Rush Limbaugh's mother speak before a crowd of ditto-heads. Sarcasm and acrimony. By stark contrast, and again in conflict with everything I have heard, I was very impressed with McCain's speech. His best line (which was risky) was "I'm not standing here because I think I am special." (It was a risky line, since it was obviously in contrast to the man who wrote his first memoirs at age 30.) He told his POW story, yet again, but in no way saying that military service makes him a leader, but almost the opposite. He made it clear that he has learned, to the depths of his soul, the severely limited value of his individual strengths and talents. It is hard to conceive of that sentiment being a delivered line handed over from a scriptwriter. He called himself an imperfect servant. He also made it abundantly clear that bipartisanship is not a peaceful, touchy feely concept about an oncoming age of Aquarius. It is a concept involving much rancor, dissent, and political cost. That contrasts so greatly with the facile, wrong-headed claim that it can be something so simple as agreeing with the other side that we should keep missiles out of the hands of terrorists; That mothers of dead or wounded soldiers should get passport fee waivers. Too bad for me that I cannot vote for him, as I don't think he can, as an individual, be a lone voice bringing fundamental change to the party of ditto-heads. Maybe, maybe . . . if we know to a near certainty that the Democratic party will sweep both houses. . . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bobert Date: 06 Sep 08 - 01:09 PM Well, heric, McCain is repsonsible for his choice of VP and he is responsible for the tone of his campaign... He reminds me of a bully who apologizes between punches but keeps on punching, non the less... What John McCain has done so far in this campaign is insure that if he gets elected he will not have bi-partisanship... His VP alone will insure that... The "old" McCain would have had a chance to be successful... The "new" one, the one that has caved to the rightest of the right, has no chance of success... Even if he says that he won't seek a second term, it won't matter because, IMO, if you think that the cuurent Congrss and Bush can't work together, you haven't seen nuthin' yet... A Democratic Congress and the ***new 'n unimproved*** McCain won't be able to pass one single significant piece of legislation and in '12 the American people will finally get it that Bush's policies just don't work... The sad part about this is that Obama has held the high ground thru this all and hasn't been the bridge burner and is the only candidate who has a chance of getting Congress to work better but between the negative personal attacks by McCain and the fact that he is black he has an uphill battle if he continues to walk the high road... And if he takes the low road then McCain will attack him as just another politican... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: heric Date: 06 Sep 08 - 01:18 PM Yes I agree that he has to be responsible for Palin and for the tone. (And that these show he can't overcome the status quo in the party.) But I don't pay much attention to the candidate's claims about what they will get passed. I figure the House and the Senate have to be the engine for that. I've never even understood why all Presidential candidates lay claim to enormous Legislative power. I think we fundamentally agree, but I loved that speech. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 06 Sep 08 - 02:15 PM I was impressed with McCain's speech per se, also--right up to the point where he stopped saying anything meaningful and started slinging handfuls of mud. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 06 Sep 08 - 02:17 PM "Running From Reality SAVE SHARE By BOB HERBERT Published: September 6, 2008 If there was one pre-eminent characteristic of the Republican convention this week, it was the quality of deception. Words completely lost their meaning. Reality was turned upside down. Go to Columnist Page » From the faux populist gibberish mouthed by speaker after speaker, you would never have known that the Republicans have been in power over the past several years and used that titanic power to lead the country to its present sorry state. In his acceptance speech on Thursday night, Senator John McCain did his best Sam Cooke imitation ("A Change is Gonna Come") and vowed to put the country "back on the road to prosperity and peace." Mr. McCain spoke at the end of a day in which stock market indexes plunged. The next morning the Labor Department gave us the grim news that another 84,000 jobs had been lost in August, and that the official unemployment rate had climbed to 6.1 percent — the highest in five years. If there were any good ideas at this convention of mostly rich and mostly right-wing delegates about how to haul the country out of this mess that the G.O.P. has gotten it into, they were kept well hidden. Perhaps they were tucked away behind the more prominently displayed creationism and "just-say-no to global warming" documents. It stretches the mind almost to the breaking point to think of John McCain as an agent of substantive change. He once believed that Phil Gramm was the most qualified person in the United States to be president. And he now believes that Sarah Palin is the most qualified to be vice president. That is not the fault of Mr. Gramm or Ms. Palin. But it sure tells us a lot about the judgment of John McCain. Mr. McCain is a warrior, a former fighter pilot, and it's no secret that Americans have long been thrilled by the romantic Top Gun narrative of fighter pilots, those specialists in the realm of the dangerous and the reckless. But we've also seen what dangerous and reckless behavior in the White House can do to a nation. Sarah Palin may someday become president, and for all we know she may be a great one. But she was not chosen as Mr. McCain's running mate after long and careful consideration and consultation. The best evidence is that she was a somewhat impulsive choice. Voters would be well advised to proceed with caution. For most voters, the No. 1 issue in this campaign is the financial struggle facing working families that are trying to cope with job losses, declining wages, the high cost of health care, home foreclosures, bankruptcies and the like. To a great extent these problems are the result of national policies, forged under Republican rule, that overwhelmingly favored the interests of the very wealthy over working people. Senator McCain's economic guru through all of this was Mr. Gramm, a former Republican senator from Texas and chairman of the banking committee. He was a demon for deregulation, and he and his wife, Wendy, who once led the presidential Task Force on Regulatory Relief in the Reagan administration, were among the big recipients of Enron's largess...." Bob Herbert, NYT |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: heric Date: 06 Sep 08 - 02:27 PM Knowing in advance the falsehoods in Palin's speech, from reading Mudcat, also diminished the experience, more than a little. . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: akenaton Date: 06 Sep 08 - 02:34 PM It's not about truth heric, it's about winning an election....for both parties. Thought you, of all people, would have known that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: heric Date: 06 Sep 08 - 02:38 PM But the claim to have said "Thanks but no thanks" to the wasteful bridge earmark, when she really said "Thanks for the cash, but we're not going to use it for the bridge," is a spectacular whopper. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bobert Date: 06 Sep 08 - 02:48 PM Yeah and I just read about the airplane that she supposedly sold at a profit on ebay... Those were John McCain's boastfull words... Problem is that the plane wasn't sold on ebay... It was sold privately to one of Plain's campaign contributors at a half a million dollar loss... And that's just one of them... Like the article points out that Amos posted... There was no real connect between the speeches and reality... But not to fear... If Obama had lied about the sale of governemnt property to one of his donors it would make the front page and, like Rev. Wright, would occupy the news cycles 24 hours a day for a week but when Ms. Palin and John McCain lied about this, what happened??? Virtually nothing... This is a corrupted media that is deathly afraid of the right wing... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Sep 08 - 02:56 PM It is as Akenaton says. They say and do anything which they (and their handlers) think will win them the election. It's a game. (kind of like a football game) Truth has nothing to do with it. Morality has nothing to do with it. The Big Corporate League that runs the game and owns the stadium wins no matter which football team wins the game. The public pays for the game. At the conclusion of the game one team officially loses, one team officially wins. The public actually loses. The public is eternally divided against each other through being divided into fans of team A versus fans of team B, and they are openly encouraged to despise one another. This renders them powerless and keeps them suitably mesmerized and distracted as the Big League rules over them all...unseen, unthought of, unspoken of, and totally in control of the process. 2 years later there's a semi-playoff between teams A and B for the Congress. 4 years later the whole stupid process repeats itself as the next Big Playoff game occurs for the presidency. Any truly alternative voices (such as Dennis Kucinich, Ron Paul, the Green Party, and other small parties) are effectively shut out of the process merely by the fact that the Big Corporate League controls most of the voices in the media, and the media focuses its attention almost exclusively on the 2 big offical teams A & B, whom I call collectively the Redemocrapublicants....because they are simply 2 halves of a single entity. Is one half preferable to the other? At times, yes. To some extent. But make no mistake, they are more of the same you have seen before, and the chances of either one of them being anything more than a compliant servant of the Big Corporate League that stands behind them are practically nil. Reality being what it is....either team A or team B will win this election. There is no other feasible possibility. That being the case, I would vote for Obama if I had the choice, because I like what I see in him far better than I like what I see in McCain. But, gee, I wish I could see the complete end of both the Democrats and the Republicans forever and the beginnings of a real democracy in the USA instead of the old phony pretence of a democracy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bill D Date: 06 Sep 08 - 05:22 PM why do I bother to post? I replied to BOTH Doug and BB up there and it's like "blowin' in the wind". If BB or Bobert or GfS or Doug R or maybe akenaton say anything within a few minutes of my post, it all deteriorates into a free-for-all within that bunch. If Amos also posts, it is hopelessly diverted to some other point. Hey...maybe I oughta count my blessings, huh? My blood pressure may improve if I just *grin* from the sidelines. It does make be curious, though, how some of you decide which ideas & sources are provocative enough to bother with. *sat for several minutes deciding whether to push "submit"*....it's SO mean of me to distract from this scintillating debate... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Sep 08 - 05:40 PM Bill D - "why do I bother to post?" Because you're as addicted to stimulus/reaction/response as the rest of us are? ;-) Because you like the sound of your own voice? ;-) Heck, Bill, you're human too, right? We all post here because we simply can't resist not doing so. "My blood pressure may improve if I just *grin* from the sidelines." Now yer on the right track... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,heric Date: 06 Sep 08 - 05:42 PM hey we all know that feeling, BillD. And when you are right, you are right. If we respond just stating agreement we get criticized as a waste of time for that, too. BillD wrote: GET THIS STRAIGHT: Bush and Cheney and their minions have created this mess...and the many "running scandals", as Olbermann likes to call 'em, are paradigm examples of abuse of power and wasteful spending and impeachable offenses. Allowing 'most' of the same Republicans to continue down this path, just so the plan for eternal conservative rule can continue with no interruption is beyond 'bad'...it is stupid! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Sep 08 - 05:49 PM "Bush and Cheney and their minions have created this mess..." Sort of. They've agravated it considerably. Let me put it this way: The Great Ruling Corporate Oligarchy in America has created this mess through its agents, the Redemocrapulicant Duopoly. Bush and Cheney and their minions have helped greatly to make it even far worse for the last 8 years than it might have been. Therefore it would be wise to utterly repudiate them and whoever follows in their wake (meaning McCain and Palin). That, however, gives me little confidence in the Democrats as a governing party, although I do rather like Mr Obama as a person. I could not stomach rewarding the present ruling party for the last 8 years of insanity. In fact, their leaders should be put on trial for committing international war crimes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,heric Date: 06 Sep 08 - 05:53 PM Without getting much press for it, Obama and Biden have both said that criminal investigations of this administration are not off the table, so that we can resolve or clarify the distinction between "criminal acts and really bad policy." (Biden quote.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bobert Date: 06 Sep 08 - 06:03 PM Bill, No comment... *g* B;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bill D Date: 06 Sep 08 - 06:22 PM hmmmppfff ...I see that eye winkle in your "no comment". ...now if I hadn't stayed out late at the Open Sing last night, explaining to them all about the true meaning of 'folk music', I might have kept up with THIS and had you all clear about Republicans & politics in general. *sigh* I can only do so much to keep this world on the right track. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,heric Date: 06 Sep 08 - 06:32 PM We're alweady on the White Twack. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bobert Date: 06 Sep 08 - 06:54 PM 'er is it the Wright track??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 06 Sep 08 - 07:03 PM What interests me today about Palin's speech, however, isn't its predictable reception. Rather, it's the cognitive dissonance of the following passage: W]hen the cloud of rhetoric has passed; when the roar of the crowd fades away; when the stadium lights go out, and those styrofoam Greek columns are hauled back to some studio lot—what exactly is our opponent's plan? What does he actually seek to accomplish, after he's done turning back the waters and healing the planet? The answer is to make government bigger—take more of your money—give you more orders from Washington … The woman who made this complaint about big government taking your money is the governor of Alaska. Please take a moment to look at this U.S. Census chart showing federal-government expenditures, per capita, in the 50 states. You will observe that Alaska receives about $14,000 per citizen from the federal government. That's more than any other state, and a good $4,000 more than every other state except Virginia, Maryland, New Mexico, and North Dakota. The chart is from the Census Bureau's Consolidated Federal Funds Report for Fiscal Year 2005. I skipped over the 2006 report, the most recent one available, because Hurricane Katrina put Louisiana and Mississippi ahead of Alaska that year. But that's an anomaly. Alaska held the per-capita record for sucking on the federal teat in 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001, and 2000. According to the nonprofit Tax Foundation, Alaska gets back $1.84 for every dollar it pays into the U.S. Treasury—even though Alaska enjoys a higher per-capita income than 34 of the 50 states. This is a state that preaches right-wing libertarianism while it practices middle-class socialism. Palin has not bucked this venerable tradition. It's been widely reported that even though Palin came out against the federally funded, $223 million "bridge to nowhere," a wasteful Alaska earmark (and one she'd supported before it created an uproar in Congress), Alaska ended up receiving the same amount of federal money as transportation funds to be spent at the state's own discretion. When Palin was mayor of Wasilla, she hired the former chief of staff to Sen. Ted Stevens, the recently indicted dean of the Alaska congressional delegation, to lobby for the town (pop. 6,700)—which, as a result, wound up receiving nearly $27 million in federal earmarks over four years. As governor, Palin just this past February sent Stevens a memo outlining $200 million in new funding requests. Granted, Palin enjoys inexplicably warm relations with the secessionist Alaska Independence Party, whose founder's anti-Americanism, Rosa Brooks points out in the Los Angeles Times, puts Rev. Jeremiah Wright in the shade. ("The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government," he told an interviewer in 1991—a year when Republicans controlled the White House and U.S. troops went into battle to free Kuwait from Iraqi occupation.) But there's little real danger that Alaska would ever choose to secede from the Lower 48. Independence would cost it too much in lost federal revenue. A pit bull with lipstick? I'd describe Palin as a hog who recommends diet books while feeding at the trough." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Sep 08 - 08:57 PM You're probably right, Amos, but she's just doing the usual political game: telling her constituency what they want to hear...and they'll believe her. You know why? Because they want to, and because superficial impressions are really all that counts these days in politics. You don't have to really BE a patriot, you just have to look and sound like one. You don't have to really BE a fiscal conservative, you just have to look and sound like one. The disturbing facts that would harm a candidate's credibility are only sought out by those few political aficionados like yourself who are already extremely opposed to that candidate. So what happens? Basically nothing. Those who are already opposed to her find more grist for their mill. So what? Those who are naturally in favor of her pay little attention to what you have to say, because they are busy finding out their critical stuff about Obama or Biden. In other words they're doing exactly what you're doing, only from the complete opposite persuasion. Two separate sets of people preaching to their choir is what I call it. ;-) So predictable. It generates a lot of heat (and a lot of bandwidth on Mudcat), but what does it accomplish in the end except to reinforce a lot of existing prejudices and give people a chance to vent? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Emma B Date: 06 Sep 08 - 08:58 PM Amen LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,heric Date: 06 Sep 08 - 09:07 PM Disagree. We have to try. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Sep 08 - 09:16 PM Oh, by all means...try all you want to. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,heric Date: 06 Sep 08 - 09:17 PM And I doubt that Amos is as predictable as you say. He might be resistant to, say, a Rezko smoking gun, but surely he is not uncritically devoted. It sounds like a lot of screaming and noise, but it is more complicated than surface appearances. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 06 Sep 08 - 09:52 PM I was actually interested in the unrevealed promise of the Candidate Palin, LH, and open to what could be learned. But it revealed itself as another loop on the same record. BTW I regret I did not make it clear that the essay above quoting her is not my own writing, but a quotation from an essayist in Slate. Apologies. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bill D Date: 06 Sep 08 - 10:03 PM ...and away we go |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Sep 08 - 10:24 PM I'm not saying that Amos's comments are not thoughtful and incisive. They often are. I am saying that it is not thoughtful and incisive comment that gets a politician elected in the USA, because the majority of voters are not swayed by thoughtful and incisive comment. They're highly suspicious of intellectuals, for heaven's sake! They don't trust them. They think that intellectuals are elitists who don't respect "working people". They are swayed by extremely crude superficial impressions and they trust people who reinforce those crude impressions which they are most familiar with and most in sympathy with... I believe this is true of perhaps 90% of the electorate, and that's why the political parties deal primarily in marketing crude and usually mythological superficial impressions rather than in communicating much about reality. And it just so happens that the Right has been far more clever for some time in how they go about creating and marketing those superficial impressions. They do it by appealing primarily to people's fear and their greed. The Left also does that, but the Left is, by definition, badly hampered in modern America...it's practically the only society in the world where the words "liberal" and "socialist" have attained mythological connections in the average person's mind with being "evil". None of this has been done by reasoned argument or by any form of intelligent analysis. It's been done by marketing crude stereotypes and common myths to the general public. Superficial impressions. It's the main reason why I can't be bothered listening to most political speeches. It makes me feel downright disgusted. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: heric Date: 06 Sep 08 - 10:26 PM AND, one last thing before I shoot some Tequilas: The Americans on this list don't address DougR as "The Honorable Gentleman from Arizona," but I believe they respect him and his opinions more than you suspect. Really. It's complicated. (And personally I think it's beautiful.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Joe Offer Date: 06 Sep 08 - 10:29 PM Well, I'm still not convinced that McCain and Palin are as evil as many of you people say they are. I'm a Democrat (albeit a moderate one), and I'm going to vote for Obama/Biden, so don't get all worried about that. The problem is, our country has a nasty record of electing Republicans with a fair degree of frequency, and there's a chance they'll do it again this year. In my lifetime, this country has elected a number of of Republican Presidents who are cynical, warmongering, corrupt, criminal, just plain stupid, or all of the above. I may not agree with the political philosophy of McCain and Palin, but I think they are a real departure from the typical Republican candidates. They are a sign of hope for the Republican Party, that maybe that party can come up with nominees who are halfway decent people. I suppose that if McCain and Palin lose, this move toward Republican Party reform will be stopped dead, but I do see it as a ray of hope for now. After all, it sometimes seems that McCain's closest ally in the Senate is Ted Kennedy. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: heric Date: 06 Sep 08 - 10:35 PM cross-posted. I agree with most of what you just said, EXCEPT maybe, just maybe, the less educated, the hayseeds, the ditto-heads, and even their social opposites, have a valid point to consider when they are highly suspicious of intellectuals in executive leadership positions. I said at the time that Obama may have lost the election with his "bitter" comment made in San Francisco, and not in PA. Palin was instructed to and did hit hard on that one. He should have said it in PA. That would have been a lot more respectful. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: katlaughing Date: 06 Sep 08 - 11:18 PM BillD, I was cheering you on, you just couldn't hear me all the way from Colorado! I was so pleased to see you "let loose" it was fantastic! LH, your defeatist rhetoric is so disappointing knowing your knowledge of the power of words, read and spoken. Like heric says, we have to try and it doesn't hurt to use words of hope, positivity, etc. as we do so. Palin is a flash in the pan...burns bright and fast goes to ashes. Joe, I can hardly see how you could think such of either of them. Have you read of Palin's extreme religious beliefs re' government, etc.? She is a very dangerous entity, imo and not someone to be encouraged. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Sep 08 - 11:43 PM I'm like anyone else, Kat. I have to call it as I see it. You say that Palin's a flash in the pan. That will be true if the Republicans lose. If the Democrats lose, then Obama will have been a flash in the pan. That's how it always works in politics which is mainly the art of fashioning and marketing popular myths to keep the public divided, yet enthused and onside to once again rubber stamp their acceptance of the status quo. The status quo is that you have 2 great ruling parties neither of which truly represents or serves the general public...and they can't, because they are the tools of larger concerns and those larger concerns are the corporate people who fund them and who fashion the myths which are marketed. One of the purposes of those myths is to maintain the world's largest military-industrial effort at full production by whatever means possible...and that requires more warfare and more threats of war. I don't see myself as part of that system at all, so I can't support it. I'm looking at it entirely from the outside. Remember that I am not an American. I view your elections with trepidation as someone in a separate country, a country which, like the whole world, has very grave reasons to be concerned about what the USA will do in the next four years. I'd much rather Obama gets elected than McCain, because the world in general would get along better with Obama, I think. It would be a chance to defuse a lot of international tension. I will not be overly surprised if he doesn't, however. Nor will I be overly surprised if he does. It could go either way at this point. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 07 Sep 08 - 12:04 AM That McCain/Palin have succeeded in moving their position in public impressions away from Bush is a mission accomplished--they had to do that both because of Bush's poor repute and because, possibly, they have some smattering of principles against such things as torture and spying on citizens. However, they ddo not represent the current of change which they claim to deserve the mantle of, IMHO. They did not deliver more than a sketchy paucity of concepts or programmatic ideas. Going up against the rich proposals of Obama by imitating his platform with an added dose of fear and fight is not exactly inspiring. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: katlaughing Date: 07 Sep 08 - 12:40 AM I could never forget that you are not an American, LH, but I think I was writing more to your metaphysical side, which knows no borders, correct?:-) Amos, I agree, but I am still going to use my bumper sticker which says "McCain - Bush's Third Term." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Joe Offer Date: 07 Sep 08 - 01:11 AM No, Kat, I guess I haven't read anything I believe about Palin's "extreme religious beliefs." Her beliefs are to the right of mine (mine are on a par with Obama and Kerry), but still what I would consider within the "mainstream." No, I wouldn't consider her ideas dangerous at all, even though I disagree with many of her positions. She doesn't believe in abortion and she inquired about book censorship - but I haven't seen any indication that she actually made any move toward removing books from libraries or negating Roe v. Wade. I think a candidate has a right to personal beliefs, even if others deem those beliefs extreme - the question is whether that candidate would impose those beliefs on the rest of the nation. Palin certainly hasn't done that in Alaska. I think we need to get away from polarization and from demonizing people who don't agree with us. We may not agree, but we have to find common ground with our opponents if we are to make any progress at all. We cannot move foward in this country without at least some support from the Republican Party - I'd much rather deal with a McCain/Palin Republican, than with a Bush/Reagan/Nixon Republican. I think John McCain is the Republican Senator that Democratic Senators have respected most. I think he still deserves that respect. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Sep 08 - 03:33 AM I'll tell you one thing that worries me, Kat. I think Obama may not be a nasty enough man to campaign effectively against the Rovian tactics of the Republicans. Your public will always vote against a candidate whom they do not perceive as "tough enough". Posing as "tough enough" generally involves two avenues of crummy and cynical behaviour: 1. bellicose statements about fighting America's supposed foreign "enemies" and pursuing them "to the gates of hell" 2. vicious attacks on the patriotism and courage and character and honesty and morality of the opposing candidate Obama is the type of person who likes to take the high road and rise above that sort of awful garbage...and I greatly respect him for wanting to rise above it...but it will not serve him well at the ballot box if he does, because the majority of American voters are unmerciless to people who take the high road. They do not vote in fair-minded and rational ladies or fair-minded and rational gentlemen who treat their opponents decently and look at both sides of something before shooting their mouths off, they vote in pit fighters. They are attracted by the scent of blood. Thus they usually get the irresponsible governments that their instincts led them directly to, seems to me. That was what usually happened in Rome too. The mob loved nothing better than a conquering hero who came home figuratively walking on a carpet of skulls...or else promising to deliver one quite soon. McCain is acting out that role to perfection, as Republican candidates almost always do. The only time I can recall when it totally backfired for them was in '64 when Goldwater ran. There was enormous sympathy for the dead John Kennedy at that time and a desire to continue his legacy by electing Lyndon Johnson, and Johnson played on that and successfully portrayed Goldwater as an extremist wacko who would lead the nation into a disatrous war. And what did Johnson do in the four years after he was elected? He delivered that carpet of skulls...over in Vietnam. This is why I trust the Democratic Party as much as I do the Republican Party, which is to say I trust them both about as much as I would a pit viper. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: beardedbruce Date: 07 Sep 08 - 08:28 AM LH, "They do not vote in fair-minded and rational ladies or fair-minded and rational gentlemen who treat their opponents decently and look at both sides of something before shooting their mouths off, they vote in pit fighters. They are attracted by the scent of blood." Exactly! Look at the Obama supporters here ( since there are a greater number) and see how many are acting in this way. Other than Joe Offer, I suspect they will continue to use tactics they call Rovian right up to the election, even when it is pointed out that they are hurting their own cause (By Obama!). I do NOT say that the Republicans are much better- but I doubt they will make the concerted effort that the Dems are pushing. There will always be a fringe of "supporters' that push the limits of decency ("Anything goes as long as we win")- IMO there will be more on the Left than the Right in this election. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Donuel Date: 07 Sep 08 - 09:18 AM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bobert Date: 07 Sep 08 - 09:24 AM Joe, As it has been said about presidential contests, "The Dems have the 6 point proposals and the Repubs the 3 point victories"... The Repubs have mastered winning these things... Right now MccIna has packed his campaigne with Bush speechwriters and strategists... It is rumored that Karl Rove has been secretly advising the McCain people and lets not forget the T.Boone's of the world who if the election gets close will spend whatever it take in 527 money to smear the Dem... Plus, this year there are a large number of people who absolutely won't vote for a black man... Especially in the Southern Staegy states... LH, I still have ***hope*** that Obama will outflank McCain in enough states to win and be that "Trojan Horse" and actually be the kind of leader that can sell Congress and the American people on some major mid-course corrections which the country desperately needs... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Donuel Date: 07 Sep 08 - 09:34 AM Some call it backbone some call it fight. The spirit of fighting for and defending our nation is neither unethical or wrong. When Republicans were dedicated for their cause (which turned out horribly) they were called staunch. Staunch Democrats have upset bearded bruce, but even he will prosper from the change that will begin soon. How soon? The change will face another 2 years of free fall from the Bush debt as well as corporate and financial bank swindles that have crippled the world market. Bbruce is a fellow Ameican so I will of course do the right things to insure that he will not lose his house or job needlessly. Inevitably he will do the right things to help us, his fellow citizens to live and build a better future. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Ebbie Date: 07 Sep 08 - 09:56 AM "Tough enough", Little Hawk? Perhaps. Like any other peoples, Americans need to perceive their leaders as being tough enough to chart and hold to a course. However, I don't agree that 'tough enough' commonly entails "1. bellicose statements about fighting America's supposed foreign "enemies" and pursuing them "to the gates of hell" 2. vicious attacks on the patriotism and courage and character and honesty and morality of the opposing candidate. In my memory are Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Carter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Donuel Date: 07 Sep 08 - 10:06 AM Yanking a VP choice is risky. What could cause McCain to withdraw Palin? Could he really endorse no abortion even in a case of incest? HYPOTHETICAL illustration |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: dick greenhaus Date: 07 Sep 08 - 10:56 AM Just musing. If suffering unjust imprisonment and torture for years is an important qualification for the Presidency, should we look to Gitmo for the next crop of candidates? Or do we have to wait 40 years until they ripen? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bobert Date: 07 Sep 08 - 11:16 AM Well, between checking off chores from the P-Vine's honey-do list this morning I have been catching snipettes of the Sunday talkin' heads and it seems the consenses that Ms. Sarah will be cacooned thru election day the best that the Repubs can pull off... So don't expect to see her on Meet the Press where Joe Biden just fielded one hard question after another... And, other than the 3 debates John McCain probably won't do Meet the Press either which I fully understand... So oughtta be an interesting campaign with McCain and Palin doing fake town hall meetings and rallies in the lilliest of white America... BTW, did ya' see yesterday's McCain ralley??? Must have been 300 to 400 people there and not one black person... Hmmmmm? Looks as if the McCain/Plain strategy has been settled... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: katlaughing Date: 07 Sep 08 - 11:34 AM Bobert, I still have that hope, too, as do millions of other people in our country all of whom will vote, I am sure. Joe, I think, in your kindly way, you are giving Palin too much of the benefit of the doubt. She hasn't changed Roe v Wade in Alaska because she can't. First, she's not in the legislature and second it is a federal law. But, make no mistake about it, IF she becomes VP she will do ALL in her power, which may also become presidential power, to reverse it AND to pack the Supreme Court with more right wing judges, something McCain has already said he will do. Although, I would hope McCain would be thwarted by a comfortable majority Democratic Congress. Still it's a risk I don't want to take. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: katlaughing Date: 07 Sep 08 - 11:56 AM LH, I forgot to say that Obama will not be a flash in the pan if he is not elected. He will still be a Senator; that's one more Democrat in the Senate to thwart whatever BS McCain and Palin may cook up to destroy a woman's right to choose, pack the Supreme Court with more right wingnuts, etc. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Bill D Date: 07 Sep 08 - 12:11 PM Despite Joe Offer's worrying about how 'some' folks are trying to demonize McCain & Palin, I submit that the real issue & danger is not directly about those two individuals, but rather about the entire ISSUE of leaving the Republican power structure in place. McCain is not likely to replace any significant amount of the bureaucracy he inherits, and many of THOSE folks were installed by an administration directed by Karl Rove and his pals. Add to this that there at least two Supreme Court judges hanging on by their fingernails, hoping for Obama to replace them, and we see what the repercussions of allowing McCain in can be, even if he personally tries to be 'decent'! Add to this the very IDEA of McCain not surviving his term and Palin, with her MUCH more conservative positions and MUCH less experience and knowlege becoming president. (Does no one remember Dan Quale & Spiro Agnew!?!?!) I suppose that, to win an election, it is necessary to focus on the candidates & their qualities & character a lot, but Obama's campaign needs to keep constantly in front of the public just how devastating the last 8 years have been, and how much worse it could get. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: dick greenhaus Date: 07 Sep 08 - 03:20 PM IT's an odd situation. McCain is much more popular than the Republican Party, according to the polls. And Obama is significantly less popular than the Democratic Party. The natural consequence of this is for McCain ro run on popularity and Obama to run on issues. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Sep 08 - 04:18 PM "Obama will not be a flash in the pan if he is not elected" Yes, I get what you mean about Obama's continued influence as a senator, Kat. I simply meant that he would be a flash in the pan as a presidential candidate if he fails to be elected this time, that's all. The only one who has ever failed to win in a presidential race and then come back later to win one was Nixon...and his loss to Kennedy in 1960 was by a hair. (in fact, he might have actually won it, but we'll never know for sure) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: pdq Date: 07 Sep 08 - 04:47 PM Actually, Grover Cleveland ran for president in 1888 and lost. He came back in 1892 and won. Also, Richard Nixon received only 40.8% of the votes in the Electoral College. Almost a landslide do to the Kennedy-Johnson success in the ol' Solid South. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 07 Sep 08 - 09:43 PM The idea of an only semi-successful mayor suddenly taking over the Presidency is an awful one, to me. As she herself put it, the President's Administration is not a voyage of self-discovery. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Sep 08 - 09:55 PM Yeah, pdq, but you know as well as I do that the electoral college is a crock when it comes to really representing the will of the people in an accurate manner... (grin) What I meant was that Nixon may have actually got a slight majority of the popular vote nationwide in 1960. It's possible that some votes were laundered in favor of the Democrats in the Chicago area in that election, for instance. I'm not a bit regretful that Nixon didn't win (officially) in 1960, I'm just saying that he may have gotten more votes than Kennedy. I think he would have been a poorer choice for president than Kennedy, just because of his paranoid personality and how adversely that affected his dealings with people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,Thornton ON Date: 08 Sep 08 - 04:10 AM Did anyone watch Russell Brand host this year's MTV Video Music Awards last night in Los Angeles ? The 33-year-old perverted clown insulted everyone from the president to a boy band because they said they don't do drugs and respect virginity. Why on earth did they ask this thing to present the awards is this a reflection of music culture today ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:47 AM Why? Who knows? He probably has the right friends and connections in the industry...and they probably figured he would amuse the audience. Don't expect much from today's music industry. It is run by people who worship money, not art. They aim for the lowest common denominator. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 08 Sep 08 - 09:51 AM "The establishment media take pride in their role as gatekeeper to our political process and social discourse. So the gatekeeper media's reaction has been: Who is Sarah Palin to suddenly show up on the national stage? We didn't vet her. And we don't approve of her. Thus Martin Peretz, editor-in-chief of the venerable New Republic for the last 34 years, wrote a blog post Thursday while he was "still reeling from last night's malign hysteria at the Republican convention. This is a rotten crowd, even the pious Christian Huckabee and certainly Mayor Giuliani and the aspiring vice president, Sarah Palin." Despite reeling from the speeches, Peretz was able to "give [Palin] her due: she is pretty like a cosmetics saleswoman at Macy's." He continued that it was "good to see that the Palin family didn't torture poor Bristol, at least in the open." And he concluded: "Yes, please God, do bless America and rescue us from these swilly people." No malign hysteria there. The Obama campaign, which would like to get votes from some of these very Americans, isn't going to follow Peretz down that rabbit hole. To the degree they have to address the Palin question, they'll stick to the argument they made in their first reaction to the Palin announcement: "Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency." " (Wm Kristol, NYT) I absolutely love the characterization by Perez of the RNC crowd as malign and "swilly". It captures the zeitgeist very well -- the chanting USA, the electrification with Palin's half-truths, and the overdone balloons. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: katlaughing Date: 08 Sep 08 - 11:47 AM From the Washington POST: By Howard Kurtz The Ad: Announcer: The original mavericks. He fights pork barrel spending. She stopped the Bridge to Nowhere. He took on the drug industry. She took on big oil. He battled Republicans and reformed Washington. She battled Republicans and reformed Alaska. They'll make history. They'll change Washington. McCain. Palin. Real change. McCain: I'm John McCain and I approve this message. Analysis: John McCain is using this ad to try to reclaim the "maverick" label once routinely attached to his name, before he embraced the Republican right more tightly in seeking the GOP nomination. His new running mate, Sarah Palin, can also claim to have taken on her state's Republican Party as Alaska governor, although it is conservative media outlets that most often call her a maverick. The Arizona senator has made a crusade of battling pork-barrel "earmarks," but the whopper here is that Palin opposed her state's notorious Bridge to Nowhere. She endorsed the remote project while running for governor in 2006, claimed to be an opponent only after Congress killed its funding the next year and has used the $223 million provided for it for other state ventures. Far from being an opponent of earmarks, Palin hired lobbyists to try to capture more federal funding. McCain can fairly be said to have taken on the drug industry by co-sponsoring a bill to allow imports of cheaper drugs from Canada. Palin presided over a tax on oil company profits and pushed the industry to develop Alaska's gas reserves. To say that McCain "reformed Washington" is an overstatement. He has had limited success, such as on campaign-finance legislation, but many of his other efforts, most notably on an attempt to revise immigration laws, have failed. And McCain has changed his position on such issues as President Bush's tax cuts, which he originally opposed but now wants to extend. The commercial makes clear that McCain, with the addition of a rookie governor, is no longer running as the candidate of experience. Instead, he is trying to steal the "change" mantra from his Democratic rival, Barack Obama, and appeal to appeal to swing voters who are disillusioned with the Republican Party. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 08 Sep 08 - 11:56 AM The Republican Convention explained, in pictures. Good for grins, anyway. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: DougR Date: 08 Sep 08 - 05:11 PM Folks here are probably aware that McCain/Palin pulled ahead of Obama/Biden in today's Gallup Poll by several percentage points. Prior to the RNC, Obama and Biden led by six or seven points. Seems, according to several respondents that folks thought the Democrats were putting on "airs" with their fancy staging, etc. at their convention. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: pdq Date: 08 Sep 08 - 05:45 PM Part of the surge in polls is a positive view of the two Republicans and part is a very negative view of Joe Biden. In political circles, he is known as the Democrats chief attack dog. He rips the Republicans "a new one" even when they are sincere and correct. The public sees divisive partisanship in Biden and about 80% of us don't like what we see. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:10 PM Just t be clear, McCain's average lead over all polls is about 2.9 points. Nice bounce from the cheesecake; or else it was her gravitas as a candidate for senior national administration. I don't think the latter, though. In the gravitas department she's on a par with Mary Poppins. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: akenaton Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:13 PM Its conviction stupid!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Ebbie Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:39 PM DougR, fancy shmancy. What you really mean is "uppity", right? By the way, what happened to all the talk about Obama being a media star? Can we start talking about Palin being like Britney? lol |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: akenaton Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:53 PM If Obama had conviction, he would not wish to be leader of the biggest, baddest, capitalest country in the world. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:27 AM ooops.....forgot me nameFrom: akenaton Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:53 PM If Obama had conviction, he would not wish to be leader of the biggest, baddest, capitalist country in the world. If Biden had conviction, he as a Catholic would oppose abortion If McCain had conviction, he'd oppose illegal immigration, and not have done the driver's license bit, while pandering across 'the aisle' If Palin had conviction, she wouldn't have got the abortion, and urged her daughter to get one, for the sake of her political career.....oh, she didn't....no wonder the 'liberals' hate her.... Just 'drivel' |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Joe Offer Date: 09 Sep 08 - 02:12 AM Hmmm. In the first three cases, I think I'd change "if so-and-so had conviction" to "if so-and-so were a mindless ideologue." Luckily, our four candidates this year are NOT mindless ideologues. Of the four, it appears that Palin is the only one who may be in favor of legislation to restrict abortion - and it appears that she truly believes this is the right thing, so I respect her honesty. As for the others, do they support abortion, or do they oppose the attempt to control abortion with legislation? -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 09 Sep 08 - 02:53 AM Hey Joe.... I was just working off of Akenaton's post...(the first one) ..and pointing out that there is room for 'honest conviction' from all of them...but after all...they ARE politicians...not saviors from on high...speaking of that, Palin at least admitted to getting 'high'(pot) in her 'youth'.....as Billy never inhaled......(jeez, rolls eyes). Stereo politicians, speaking from both sides of their mouths........ Warmest regards and God Bless...... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Desert Dancer Date: 09 Sep 08 - 06:15 PM Admittedly, a biased condensation, but, amusing (if you you're not a Republican): The RNC in a Minute. Here's a more even-handed, if similar, analysis for both conventions: The words they used. ~ Becky in Tucson |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 10 Sep 08 - 06:01 AM Desert Dancer, Thank you for posting that..was interesting, and something to think about!!....Only problem is, a lot on here, are parroting WHAT to think, instead of moving on to HOW to think! but shhh..don't speak of it too loud, ..might wake someone up! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: katlaughing Date: 10 Sep 08 - 10:38 AM Thanks for the links, Becky. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Desert Dancer Date: 10 Sep 08 - 11:27 AM Taking a look again this morning, I see that of course there's a DNC in a (little more than a) Minute, too. ~ Becky in Tucson |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Amos Date: 10 Sep 08 - 01:10 PM Modulated Green Screen on McCain's Talk...a crackup. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: pdq Date: 11 Sep 08 - 09:56 AM refresh |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: katlaughing Date: 11 Sep 08 - 10:40 AM I couldn't have said it better: Olbermann on the GOP's use of 9/11 footage |
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Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention From: Riginslinger Date: 12 Sep 08 - 07:32 AM No wonder they jerked him from an anchor position! |
