BS: Asperger's help, if you feel it right?

Subject: BS: Asperger's help, if you feel it right?
From: Penny S.
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 09:01 AM

I don't want to use someone else's thread for this, but I would be glad for some help. There's a thread way back about a neighbour of mine who has been causing problems to me, and to our freehold company. I do not think the problem is due to AS.

In terms of problems, it is a tag team, of him and his partner, who I think was probably a Queen Bee at school, and expects obedience and sycophancy from other women, even twice her age. Both of them are very selfish, self-centred, self-focussed - anything else along those lines.

He, however, shows some signs which match some characteristics of Asperger's. I think it would be easier to deal with him, if I modified the way I write or speak to him to deal with that (even if he is not) but I have only been trained to deal with child Aspies. My own characteristics that way are not the same as his.

Would some of you who know you have such characteristics be prepared to offer some guidance? Short of giving in to his demands which have no legal justification.

Starting with something that has only just occurred to me.

He has stopped paying his maintenance and ground rent for a second time. He did this last year, but resumed. He finally wrote about this saying "I have withheld my payments, as you very well know, because..." I did not know. He had not written to explain before. He had muttered something at a meeting "I thought we weren't doing any maintenance this year" but this wasn't what he eventually wrote.

I seem to remember something about AS or autistic people lacking something called "theory of mind" in which they cannot understand that other people think different things from them, and one feature of this is that they assume others know what they do? Is this true?

When I write to him, it would make a difference to how I address this issue if it could be an Asperger's characteristic.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's help, if you feel it right?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 09:24 AM

Penny S.

I've pm'd you

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's help, if you feel it right?
From: SINSULL
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 11:26 AM

Penny,
When I lived in a co-op in NYC we had a similar problem which was solved by going to court. It was long and drawn out but the co-op won and when the "losers" asked for the co-op to drop our claim for our legal expenses, we refused. Sometimes, a sharp slap on the wrist and the wallet is all that is called for.
They had no grounds for violating co-op rules - reasonable rules that 100 other familes kept. It was very much an "I am special" syndrome.
Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's help, if you feel it right?
From: Penny S.
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 05:10 PM

Thanks Sinsull - I am hoping very much we don't have to go there. As for the possibility that he thought I knew - there has been another instance of something where he thought I knew something I didn't, but I originally put it down to me being forgetful. I suspect he would do that, anyway. Me being old, an' all. (Though his mother, tha same age, was young when she died.) But that isn't the AS aspect, and I want to know if that is one of the things making dealing difficult.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's help, if you feel it right?
From: Gurney
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 06:50 PM

I wouldn't be entirely sure that you're dealing with Aspergers here, Penny. In general, aspies LIKE laws, regulations, rules, agreements, and guidelines. And fair dealing.

Although, of course, the poor sod may just be the meat in the sandwith, and trying to placate his partner.

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's help, if you feel it right?
From: Penny S.
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 03:34 AM

Thanks Gurney. That, and that there has been some lying, are things that have been leaning me against the idea. The lying, however, only occurs in writing, and not in face to face discussions - though he does not like these, and becomes uneasy.

But, on the other hand:
He seems to be keen to stick to regulations which are in his favour, and to interpret regulations as being in his favour while ignoring alternatives. I get the lease waved at me for his "rights".

He is unusually sensitive to unexpected noise. This is the root of our dispute, and I compare the way he deals with my using my floor with the way the previous occupants and I were able to deal with the issue.

He responds to things not fitting with his scenario with sudden and poorly controlled anger.

(This one is the one which made me think this way) - He issued me with an order to carry out work in 60 days or he would call the Environmental Health Officer. After speaking to the EHO, I advised him to do so on day 2. And on several subsequent days. He did not call the EHO, but waited until the expiry of the 60 days to write. It would not appear to be in his interest to have waited, but he stuck to his plan. This has not been the only example of what looks like perseveration.

He has poor eye contact. This has been noticed by other people who do not have a background which would alert them to this as an indicator of anything other than "being shifty".

He is unusually attached to his status and qualifications, becoming angry if he thinks these are not being shown appropriate respect. (I did not know about this one, as a primary school teacher, and was very surprised to come across it in one list, after the behaviour had been noticed.)

I think your idea about the partner may well be true. One of the things I have noticed is that he can "shrink" or be diminished physically - this is really weird to see. He will do it if he has not done something he told the company he would do. The worst case though did not cncern this sort of thing at all. He had parked his car opposite my garage while he worked on it. This was regular, being by his door, but I was monitoring it as it was also part of the harassment, denying me access to my car without asking first, so I saw what happened. On this occasion, he got the car ready for passengers, and then his partner came out of the house with some friends. The three women were expansive and giggly, on a girls' night out. And he shrank visibly. None of them spoke to him, and his body language looked like that of a poorly paid chauffeur - not role playing, I should emphasise, as he did not look happy.

It is because of thinking that his partnership is a problem - and there is other evidence of this - that I would like to deal with him more effectively. I do, on occasions, think he is a poor sod.

As the last three days of my father's life were spent dealing with the guy, and not being with my Dad, it is not often I feel that. (To be fair, no-one knew that death was near.)

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's help, if you feel it right?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 03:45 AM

Nowt to do with Asperger's. He's just an arsehole trying it on. Sue the skin off his scrotum.

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's help, if you feel it right?
From: Penny S.
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 04:04 AM

Ah ha, Paul. And sometimes I feel that way too.

But, there seems to be a difference between the way he seeks to control me as an individual, and the company, and the way a "neuro-typical" person wanting dominance would go about it. It is difficult to explain this, but a combination of rigidity and a reluctance to initiate discussion feels odd. Also, his failing to turn up to meetings indicates he isn't your usual wannabe alpha. He actually didn't bother to come to the AGM at which I was to resign.

I think a lot of the "harassment" was attempts to get me to go to them, rather than them coming round to my door to start discussion. When we did talk, I would feel that I had achieved a movement by both of us towards each other, even if we had not got a final position. Then, next time, he would have gone back to the start again.

I felt, and still feel, that all the controls they put on my life were not done to make me feel controlled, but because he could not cope with a life he was not controlling.

This makes it difficult to deal with by digging my Sussex "wunt be druv" heels in. Tempering the wind to the shorn lamb stuff seems more appropriate.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's help, if you feel it right?
From: Penny S.
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 03:51 AM

I went into school yesterday, and bumped into the Special Needs Coordinator, and the belief that others know what you know is indeed a characteristic.
It occurs to me that there is a possible corollary, that AS people might believe that others don't know what you don't know. He doesn't seem to know that the people he thought were his friends have been talking while he isn't here, changing their positions, and doing things like telling me that he told them he was going to move well before any possibility of my "driving him from his home", and other things he might not appreciate.
He will be aware they are no longer supporters from the minutes I delivered yesterday.
He then came and hung around on the property, blocking my garage again, but did not, fortunately, deliver one of his horrid, patronising, arrogant and plain rude letters that speak to me as if I were ignorant and stupid.
I feel like shouting at him (this is my inner two year old) JUST BECAUSE I DON'T PUT IT ON MY NOTES TO THE MILKMAN DOESN'T MEAN I HAVEN'T GOT AN HONOURS DEGREE LIKE YOU. AND MINE'S FIRST CLASS AND I BET YOURS ISN'T.
But I'm not like him. so I won't.
Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's help, if you feel it right?
From: Penny S.
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 01:03 PM

Good news. While driving down the M4 - actually at the Chieveley service station, where I had a loudspeaker command to switch off my mobile - I received a business card for an engineering firm from him. I was totqally mystified, and thought he was after more buckshee work to be done. After fuming, and setting my attack dog on him to ban him from using my mobile number - called back I hope - I realised what it was about.
Last year, after a meeting in which he was warned off well and truly, I, to show him that when I said I would draw a line under his harassment, sent a nice handwritten letter. One of the things in it was a request for the name of a good firm to work on my water heater (one of his bonnet bees), but I never had a response. along with a lot of other paperwork yesterday, I included a copy, and this was the response. So, nice responses from me now.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's help, if you feel it right?
From: Gurney
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 05:06 PM

Some aspects of Aspergers behaviour there, Penny.
When you consider that Aspergers is considered to be the mild end of the Autism spectrum, and that no two people are alike, it would be bold to diagnose anyone unless you were a specialist, like Tony Attwood.

As for your water heater, I know about that one, having recently changed mine. A new cylinder with a fast-reaction (i.e.powerful) heater, and the thing sounds like a jumbo taking off. Wish I'd put some form of sound insulation between it and the wooden floor. The new cylinder is insulated with polystyrene beads instead of soundproofing felt like the old one. More heat efficient, but a lot less noise insulation.

Is this a 'body corporate' arguement?

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's help, if you feel it right?
From: Penny S.
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 05:39 PM

He brings things to the company which are really appropriate to be between individuals, and the water heater is the latter. Actually, not his business at all, but...

He remembers everything. In fact a lot of things he does and says seem to go back to things I've said. For instance, I drew attention to my being close to pensionable age (now there) and thus very careful of my money. Now he claims that the flat is part of huis pension plan. Not said originally, and not compatible with "being driven out of" his home. I also raised the matter of the water heater, which has a faulty thermostat at the time and said that for H&S reasons it needed to be done before the floor. Now, having put it on hold because of getting the floor sorted, though not to his satisfaction, he has grown very worried about it spilling boiling water (never that hot) onto his tenants, whom he has put in a place not suitable for him. This is not going to happen. I am now paranoid about saying anything. It will be noted down and used against me! (I don't know if he literally writes things down, or just remembers, but he can quote stuff pretty accurately as far as I can tell when he does it.)

As for diagnosing, I know what I'm qualified to do. At school, it was to refer a child to the SENCO for assessment, nothing more. Not the same with adults, especially unfriendly ones. But if working woth observed characteristics helps, it doesn't matter why those characteristics are there.

In the letter I sent last year I had, I thought, done that, suggesting that he was the sort of person who needed to keep tabs on everything, which made it difficult for him to deal with me, as I don't, without implying any named state for either of us. I wonder what happened to it and where communications got lost.

I had the idea he had that need from something he had done I much resented. He had written to our solicitor over the extension of my lease, and I had the impression he was trying to stop it, something he had no right to do as a majority had voted for it. He stated, though, that all he wanted was to know what was happening about the process. Again, none of his business, but uncertainty did seem to have made him anxious, as I read his body language. If he was putting enough money into the company, I would be perfectly happy to send him a monthly digest. "May - the gardener came once before his honeymoon. The window cleaner came once. I cut the grass twice....."

He really did seem to need to know for his own comfort. I don't think he would simulate AS for sympathy. When he does try for that, he is a bit pathetic. His partner does work with children, but I don't think they are up to handing me characteristics bit by bit as a try on. It's too subtle, and she is a bit of a drama queen.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's help, if you feel it right?
From: Gurney
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 02:35 AM

Penny, a faulty thermostat is not a hugely expensive or difficult thing to fix (with the hot-water systems that I'm used to!), but it does require an electrician. Balance it against the electricity it costs to overheat the water.   
Can you get help from social services for the cost?

I'm a bloke, so I'll go for the physical problems. Moral support is not my strong point.
And yes, some aspies have phenomenal memories. 500 folksongs is no trouble.
You get no sympathy for being an aspie. Just sidelong looks.
About your letters. In an exam, if you give an aspie a question with a multiple-choice answer, He'll find two more choices without any problem, and then answer THE WRONG ONE! Happens every time. Writing to an aspie, it is difficult to get your exact meaning across.

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's help, if you feel it right?
From: Penny S.
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 02:52 AM

The water heater isn't a financial problem, even if it needs replacement - I've seen the price of instantaneous heaters, which is what I would go for. Thanks for that thought.

I am being very careful with letters to try to reduce ambiguity. I am using shorter sentences with fewer clauses, and no figurative language. Also, I am mostly sticking to a very formal business style. When he has done something that could be seen as friendly, I use a less formal, more friendly style in response, but still aiming for simplicity.

It was very tricky teaching Aspies, as I am very discursive, and use language in a not always literal manner.

I have a suspicion that my posts above have not passed the test of readability at times.

Penny