BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed

Subject: BS: Aspberger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 06:09 AM

I am trying to build a picture of someone for a court case and have two theories, one is schitzophrenia and the other is Aspberger's Syndrome if anyone can summarise it pithyly I would be greatful. (I know dual personailty is not the same as being schitoid - well half of me knows that **BG**)

Subject: RE: BS: Aspberger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Morticia
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 07:10 AM

There is a lot of useful information out on the net, such as this site:
http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/

but I suppose a brief summary might be that AS is the higher functioning end of the autistic spectrum, but the Triad of Impairment that would lead to an autistic diagnosis is present i.e. lack of social interaction ( seen as difficulties with relationships),social communication ( referring to verbal and non-verbal use and understanding of language and imagination ( difficulties in
developement of imagination).For any other "symptom", that can be as varied as individuals inevitably are.

There is some link between AS and schizophrenia, but I don't believe it has been established as yet, whether it is causal, mis-diagnosis or some other possibility.Sorry, it really isn't possible to be pithy with such a complex condition although there have been lots of interesting discussions on here about AS.

Subject: RE: BS: Aspberger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Morticia
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 07:15 AM

Another thought, if this diagnosis is needed for a court case, isn't it likely the court will ask for a report from a psychiatrist?That will establish whether it is one or the other quite quickly, I would have thought. Oh, and it's Asperger's Syndrome, no b, in case you want to do a search.

Subject: RE: BS: Aspberger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Glynis
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 07:15 AM

Check out the National Autistic Society webpages (NAS).

Subject: RE: BS: Aspberger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 07:24 AM

First of all, it's Asperger Syndrome- my son has it. It's an autism-related disorder. My son was diagnosed at the age of 9 (he's now 18). If you do a Forum search on Asperger you will find several threads that mention it, including helpful links like this one to O.A.S.I.S., an online support group with lots of information on AS.

I'm curious as to what you're looking for. It's hard to make a pithy summary, as AS manifests itself in different ways. It's the "absent-minded professor" syndrome- the classic nerd, who thinks, "why use words of one and two syllables when four will do?". Difficulty with social situations is key- they don't have the neurological and social filters which teach such basics as eye contact and when to look away, small talk, gestures, personal space, even vocal inflection. They can be taught these things, but life for them is about constantly having to process each moment to adapt to the "natives".

I think Temple Grandin put it best when she said it's like being an anthropologist on Mars- you can learn the habits, language and culture of the natives, you can try to infiltrate the society and adapt to it, but you will never be a native yourself.

Good luck with your research! Keep us posted!


Allison

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 09:57 AM

If I remember correctly as Asperger Syndrome is defined currently, only males can exhibit the characteristics. There dosn't appear to be a name for the form that females exhibit. This could be out of date by now of course!

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Morticia
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 10:05 AM

It must be out of date, guest,in fact I've never heard that and although it is more common in males, I have worked with several females that have it and I've been working with people with AS for 10 years now.

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 10:40 AM

Thanks - the court case is a way off. Police are investigating and taking statements. It is my theory, though the need for a psychiatric anylsis is recognised by all who worked closely enough to have a valid opinion.
Sorry I don't want to say too much - fairness and all that. Maybe in the fullness of time.

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 02:42 PM

Wow! What a great way to exclude the competition! In my experience, many 'preoccupied' folks who are honestly working on creative solutions to a wide variety of quandries (social, political, enegineering, musical, artistic, etc.) can be labeled perfunctually with this 'syndrome'...

Whatever works, eh? If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullsh-t...

If they've got this syndrome, you won't need a judge or a jury to tell us something is seriously wrong...

Why don't you try kindness, and inclusion?
ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 04:08 PM

Whoa, TtR, where did that come from? Maybe I live in a vacuum, but the folks I know with the diagnosis have obvious traits that clearly put them in the Autism spectrum. AS may be used as an excuse somewhere that I'm not aware of, but in my world it's a legitimate condition.

Allison

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 04:29 PM

Whoa, Animaterra... no offense meant, sorry. You illustrate my point... in that the actual 'disorder' is very real and more or less indisputable condition, worthy of great and loving care. Please do not take my post as a slight to a very real condition, for it is not meant to be so.

There are many people these days, who will use anything to get ahead... including the use of clinical labels and name calling... and it is these people that I feel compelled to speak to in this thread. I'm quite simply, appalled...

Cheerio! ...and good luck to you and yours, animaterra!

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: annamill
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 05:17 PM

??? Gee....I wonder if my ex-husband suffered from this problem? That would explain a lot!!

NOT MAKING FUN! OR BEING INSENSITIVE!

Well, maybe a little..sorry, but it would explain him.

Love, Annamill

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 05:48 PM

AS is one of two conditions related to the Autism spectrum. The other is Hyperlexia. (People with both 'conditions' will display one or two of the three Autism indicators.) AS people are very literal, very easily distracted. I have worked with two students who have the condition. Typically, they present as 'little' adults. Very formal. They often seem to be missing whatever it is that allows most people to interpret humour. The condition is not correctable to my knowledge. Nor is Hyperlexia. Great care must be taken to teach socialization skills. Both conditions require the equivalent of "Handshkes 101". I am not being flippant. The kids don't know how to go about making friends.

I am hyperlexic. It was terrible when I was a youth--they didn't have a name for it that I recall. I guess my teachers figured I was in my own world--I was. Today, at the age of 56, I still have difficulty socializing. I still don't know how. One on one isn't a problem, but I absolutely hate parties and social gatherings of that nature. However, please know that with help, kids can learn the rudiments and lead good lives. It isn't a life sentence if the kids are taught how. Slang and expressions like "Go jump in a lake" are no-nos for kids with either condition. They will look for a lake. I have been away from Special Needs education for years now, but Mortica's post nailed it.

Last, I know from personal experience that it is hard for people with any autism-related disorders. What may seem like standoffish behaviour is just us dealing with the world in the only way we know how. We are not stupid or retarded (a word I dislike very much (actually, I hate the term)). My own IQ comes in in the low 140s. I read The Adventures of Tom Sawyer when I was six and most of the classic by the time I was ten. However, my social IQ is probably close to 50. Life has been one long learning experience for me. I'm only giving this information because people with either disorder are very hard to 'categorize'. We genuinely like people, but we don't really know what the heck to do in social situations. Small talk gets us lost. I'll try to give you an idea.

George says, "Hi. Nice day isn't it?"

(In my head: OK, this is George. It's near noon and today's a holiday, so why is he wearing work clothes? He didn't shave this morning. His second button from the top was sewed on with a different colour thread. Ergo, George did the sewing. He's probably going for lunch. Maybe he wants company.)

Brucie says, "Yeah. What are you having?"

George says, "Huh?"

Brucie thinks George isn't firing on all cylinders, and George wants to know what Brucie has been smoking. This is a split second for us. Imagine a full three hours of it. Or a lifetime.

Google the condition and you will find lots on AS. Sorry I can't be of more help with your request.

Bruce Murdoch

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 05:59 PM

Think to a time you watched little kids play. At the ages of 5 and 6, kids will be in a room with many other children and each child will be doing his/her own thing. AS and H kids never stop doing that. Thirty years later, people will wonder about the person sitting alone in the corner. We don't dislike you, we just don't know what to do. So we watch. And very often have a good time. Best party I ever went to was in Montreal. I said ten words in four hours. I really enjoyed myself. The hostess kept asking if everything was alright. I had to tell her ten times, "Fine". And I smiled each time.

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 06:12 PM

Last thing for today. I never did finish high school--I only completed grade 10. It bored me no end. When I entered university at the age of 33 (or so), I got in as a mature student. I graduated four years later with a B Ed degree in secondary education, with distinction. Read everything and listened in lectures. Couldn't read my notes, so I stopped taking them. The only reason I'm saying this is for other people who may have either AS or H. We are certainly different, but we are also valuable and capable. BM

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Rasener
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 07:28 PM

I have to say that my daughter who is 8 was diagnosed with Autism when she was 3, when we demanded the explanation for her behaviour.
We took that on board and read all we could about it, as well as finding out all we could from the specialists. She was statemented by 4.
because we caught it at a very early age and accepted it, we were then able to get on with life.
We have done so much for our daughter and now we can take her into places we once thought were impossible.
Surprisingly we have taught her a sort of adlib humour and we have a great laugh at some of the adlib she comes out with.
She has great difficulties trying to socialise because she just doesn't know how to. She smiles so much, but not always in the way the "normal" human beings smile. She learns it from videos etc. She laughs but her laugh is false because she laughs the way she has learned from TV and Video.
She can read perfectly as well as write and ask her to read a book out loud - brilliant.
Does she fully understand it - probably not.
I taught her how to use the computer at 3, when the specialist told me not to. I used special needs equipment to get her started and then progressed to using the same tools as us. She knows how to use the computer better than most kids of her age.
She is very lucky that we have two children of a similar age in our street who are prepared to play with her on her terms. She is unable to play on their terms.
When she plays, she re-enacts things from her videos. She has no real imagination.
She has learned how to behave in our society, so that when we go out, or she goes to school, she knows that she has to behave in a certain way.
When she gets home, she goes into her world and as such lives in a dreamworld.
She is very good looking, has a sense of humour, and now talks inccesantly. Her talk is so repetitive. Anybody looking at her would think there was nothing wrong.
When she doesn't understand us, she screams and shouts and gets so upset, to the point of making herself ill. We have learnt how to deal with this and are able to pull her out of her self destruction most of the time.
She loves school, but plays and works along side her peers, but does not socially interact. She is now in mainstream and gets 1 to 1 support for 20 hours a week.
Both my wife and I get lots of hugs and kisses (that makes me laugh, because her kisse are not real kisses. She copies what she sees from videos like sleeping beauty. She doesn't look at us when she is kissing).
Its so hard for her, but I would like to think that she is better prepared to live in "our" world because we have done everything we possibly can together with proffesionals, to teach her what is needed to survive.
We woudn't be without her, but it makes us so sad to think what will happen when we are not around. Who will look after her with so much love and care, and try to understand her world.
Most of her teaching in the early years was done through using pictures, flash cards etc time and time again. This repetition went on for about 2 years before she started to put words into sentences. Then we started to see some progress.
Why have I put this on this post. It is to try and help people to understand a little bit more about autism.
I could get technical, but that woudn't help people who know nothing about Autism.
Did the MMR cause our daughters Autism - I think not. Having said that, we refuse to let her have the second jab. Why, because we could never forgive ourselves if anything happened to make her any worse.
I hope some of this makes sense. Please believe me when I say that we are not looking for any sympathy, because we are not.
We love her to bits.

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 08:05 PM

And without meaning to sound patronising she sounds as blessed to have you as parents, as you are to have her as your daughter. Good luck to all three of you. You have made my trivial problems seem exactly that.

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Peace
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 12:38 AM

To The Villain:

Hello, buddy. My heart was touched very deeply by what you wrote. Thank you for posting. I will echo Guest. What you wrote is a great description of what autistic people go through. Your daughter is very fortunate to have you bot, and you certainly know how fortunate you are to have her. Parents of special needs kids always worry about the futures of their children. I do also. But the world is getting better in that way, and people are becoming more and more accepting. Hold on to that idea, OK? It does help.

Bruce M

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 04:09 AM

Some of her recent achievments are:

Learning to Roller Skate (she is doing very well and loves it)

How to hold pets, such as Rabbits, Gerbils, Cats and stroke them properly and not squeeze the living daylights out of them. Anybody who is involved with autism, will probably know how difficult it is for her to take these simple instructions on board.

Learning to dance with feel.

Learning to watch different videos, instead of the same old one. Her favourite video now is Black Beauty.

These are major steps for her, but probably aren't for "normal" children of her age.

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Peace
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 04:18 AM

You bet the steps are major. Role playing, repetition, and more of it. My own daughter would do that--watch a video or certain parts of it. She would mimic the speeches from various characters and almost assume the persona of the character. Amazing memory. Your daughter too?

Also, the 'deep hug' is a great calmer downer for kids like you daughter and mine. I tried to message you, but couldn't get the machine to do it. I'll try later today. Gotta get,

Bruce Murdoch

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 04:45 AM

Bruce
Just the same with my daughter.
Her abilty to remember things to the nth degree, is just amazing. Her abilty to mimic the voice as well is also amazing.
Maybe she could be a comedian mimer as she gets older.
We are working hard on getting her to use her normal voice. When she goes into a mimicked voice, we just say to her "normal voice please". It works for about 5 minutes, then she is back into her talk.

A funny story about her.
She is very much into Queen and Freddie Mercury. She watches the video of greatest hits obsesively.
On eday on our way to Whitby for holiday, we had the Queen greatest hits CD on.
She said "I love Freddie Mercury and would love to marry him".

To which my older duaghter who is 12 said "But Freddie woudn't marry you because he is gay".

She replied instantly "Was he born on a Sunday then"

My wife and I looked at each other, and it suddenly dawned on us what she was on about.

Mondays child is fair of face,
Tuesdays child is full of grace,
Wednesdays child is full of woe,
Thursdays child has far to go,
Fridays child is loving and giving,
Saturdays child works hard for his living,
And the child that is born on the Sabbath day
Is bonny and blithe, and good and "gay".

We coudn't stop laughing.

She is watching Dick and Dom on tele at the moment.
She just said to my wife.

"what is long for Dick"

wife "Richard"

"No, Dick with something on the end of it" she started to get upset.

We can't stop laughing.

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Mr Red
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 06:08 AM

Thomas the Rhymer

It is tolerance and forgiveness that allowed the situation to develop. If the victim had alerted the security staff at the verbal threat stage the assailant would have been yanked off-site and may have lost his job. He has lost it anyway.

Brucie & Villan - if sympathy is not on the menu would empathy do?

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 06:33 AM

TTR- thanks; that's the one trouble with this kind of forum is sometimes we (I) don't always get the nuance that lets me know the real intent of a post.

Brucie, no sympathy if you don't want it, but respect and gratitude for trusting us with your story.

Villan, empathy from here, too- AS was not in the US diagnostic manuals when my child was 4. His nursery school teacher told us that he was "emotionally disturbed" but none of the specialists who observed him could find anything "wrong". At the age of 5 we were told he was gifted, and should be in a small private school- but that they would not be able to pay for it.

In 1994 AS made it into DSMIII(revised) and a school counselor suggested we let him get tested again. Lo- he fit every criteria for AS. From then on he has gotten full support at school, and has made huge leaps. He'll graduate from high school in June, go on to college in September. He has learned to drive and started a weekend job last month.

He still comes to me for "deep pressure" hugs, still comes out with that same kind of outrageous humor that Villan told about (I loved the "gay" story- so familiar!). He's hopeful and mature and starting to understand where he needs to "bend" to let those around him understand him. He's a great kid, and I'm proud of him.

He should be able to have a career (most likely in computer science!) live on his own, and lead a full life. But yes, I do worry about how it will be when I'm no longer around. Knowing his sister, she'll be looking out for him- but not taking care of him (which is as it should be!)

Allison

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Gillie
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 06:39 AM

I have worked for quite a long time with people with learning disabilities and appreciate the difficulties that can arise. They can be very difficult one minute and very loving and giving the next. They also have a greater preception of peoples characters than we do. They have a greater ability to asess people - who is good and who is bad.

They are also genius in their own way, many have the ability to artistic or mathamatical ability. I have know many that each have their own individual character and have a good quality of life, due to the care and encouragment of their carers.

A carers role is very rewarding, I applaud The Villians post and caring nature.

Gillie

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 08:53 AM

I have what brucie has except reading for me is strenuous and exhausting.
My son has a 4 year speech delay and of course is a recalcitrant socializer.

Autism is different for every human being. When certain connections are not made in brain development the variations in the matrix are infinite.

What causes the explosion in autism today I believe are the pesticides that targeted the destruction of nervous systems in insects. The effects on gestating human nervous systems is profound.

Products like "Seven" have been banned but are now used outside the US!

THE POLITICAL SIDE:

The chemical industry is completely protected from liability and unlike pharmaceutical companies NEVER have to to do health studies before a product release.

Now part of the Patriot Act goes further and permits Chemical companies to not release any information even to doctors and hospitals when a spill or accident has occurred.

Rep. Dick Army admits he stuck in an ammendment to a bill at 3 AM Sunday morning that makes it impossible for parents to sue for damages to their children from certain procducts (like Mercury in vaccines) and sets a maximum cap of $250 thousand for any lifetime disability caused from negligence and/or poisoning.

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 09:02 AM

Villian, she just wanted to know his last name, but that's not the point, is it...

I don't know if the stories and information are helping Mr. Red, but I'm sure enjoying the discussion and learning from it.

Brucie, I hope you'll understand when I say I don't feel sympathy for you. Maybe you've had difficulties, but everyone has rough times and each individual is the only one to judge just how painful those time were/are. From what I've seen of you here, I like the way you are - intelligent, sincere and kind. Some people overcome 'problems' and some work at getting the most out of their differences. You seem to have done that. I'll gladly feel sympathetic to anyone who feels frustrated, powerless, lonely or mistreated.

I'd imagine the hardest thing to deal with is that many people believe everybody sees and understands the world the same as they do. They get mad when someone doesn't. They see it as the other person's fault instead of wondering if there's something wrong with their own expectations. The best teachers, parents, friends, heck - people are the ones who are willing to partially step into someone else's world for a little while, and recognize when they have to do so in order to communicate.
---------
Note to everybody: I often speak in metaphors. I usually understand other people, but I don't always make sense to them. Anybody who ever is confused by anything I've said, please PM me for clarification. I'm used to not always making sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome- facts needed
From: sed
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 09:25 AM

Asperger's Syndrome is one of the many things I read about over the past 40 years to try to understand myself. I get a rush from each new bit of knowledge but then realize that there is no real help from any source but from God. Everything else is a distraction, including every therapy, mental or physical. Sometimes I wish it wasn't so but truly believe that it is. The only healing comes from God and He heals in his own way in his own time. I believe that he keeps me very vulnerable so that I will always lean on him. Otherwise my false pride would carry me away once more. That's the best I can figure at age 55 plus. What do you think?

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 09:41 AM

I think many people take God the way others take Zanex.

I think people who use God as their front man to justify and legislate away their crimes (as per the deliberate poisonings with nerve toxins in the food etc.) are criminals... Genocidal criminals.

There are Republican prayer breakfasts dedicated to these principles going on this very moment here in DC and Virginia.

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Peace
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 02:02 PM

I don't see much use for sympathy. I have none for special needs kids because it doesn't help them. Yes, I have hugs for kids with various degrees of difficulty, but the goal is that the children become as self reliant as possible. I know that sounds a bit cold, but that's the way it is for me.

Empathy: now there's a different thing altogether. That indicates the beginning of understanding. When I teach a special needs kid, I want to be able to do that. I have to know where their heads are at if I am going to be of any use. Ask any parent of special needs children if they have ever been in tears because they followed through on a punishment (no TV for three days; no cake after supper because you broke the deal). However, sometimes that's the way it's gotta be. I have greatly appreciated the honesty of people here. When I posted what I did, it was not an attempt to garner or gather sympathy. I am open about hyperlexia because I don't see anything wrong with being who I am. I learned long ago that if you discipline yourself, no one will have to do it for you.

Part of the problem kids with special needs have is the lack of discussion about special needs. People keep it locked away, and sometimes keep their kids locked away. That is beginning to change. And it's about time.

I suppose we are a bit different, but then who isn't. I see wonderful people being so gentle with the whole subject that I feel a sense of real gratitude: the times really are changin'. Thank you.

I posted also because so many special needs people feel isolated and alone. Hell, we ALL have special needs. TtR who writes beautiful poetry is in the process of losing the woman he worships from afar: Martha Stewart (sorry Thomas, I couldn't resist); I know you will get me for that). Also, sometimes a disclosure of that nature helps others realize that they are not alone.

Jeri, I have never had any trouble understanding you. Now, that's a scary thought, isn't it?

Later,

BM

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 02:38 PM

Seems to me that no matter who or what you are there's a clinical name for it! For instance; apparently there's a clinical name for a person who has a piece of music or a song running thru' one's mind all day. I can't remember what it is now, but it's been classed a mental disorder. That's that then... we're all doomed! Hey maybe we could all be put together and we can sing and play all the time. Oh yeah, that's called a festival...der!

Sal

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 03:26 PM

Brucie
We don't punish our daughter because our daughter self destructs if she knows she has been naughty.
We discuss the situation and she promises that she won't do it again. She means it and she is so sorry.
We have never locked our daughter up, and have practised inclusion at all times, but on her terms. That way she has learnt to cope with going to most places.

There is a lovely song that I said was my daughters song and we sing it quite a lot. It was written by Cat Stevens and it is called Don't Be Shy.
these are the lyrics, which I wanted to get Cat stevens to donate for Autism. never got that far.

Don't be shy just let your feelings roll on by
Don't wear fear or nobody will know you're there
Just lift your head, and let your feelings out instead
And don't be shy, just let your feeling roll on by
On by

You know love is better than a song
Love is where all of us belong
So don't be shy just let your feelings roll on by
Don't wear fear or nobody will know you're there
You're there

Don't be shy just let your feelings roll on by
Don't wear fear or nobody will know you're there
Just lift your head, and let your feelings out instead
And don't be shy, just let your feeling roll on by
On by, on by, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Peace
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 03:55 PM

Sounds good, Villain (what a misnomer that name is). By punishment I did not mean whips and chains. A harsh punishment for my daughter is having a movie taken away for a day. She recently decided to see how far she could push it. First, she wanted to choose the movie. We agreed to that. She chose one she didn't watch anyway. Next time we chose. She learned from that. I do not under any circumstance think 'punishment' works. I mean the withdrawal of a privilege. Let me make that clear. And sometimes, even in the middle of a bad situation, it's better to stop, think and respond with love. Many kids do not understand punishment because they do not associate it with something they've done. Thay feel they are being punished because they are them. My wording was bad. Thanks, Villain. (What a misnomer.) I hope you know what great parents you are.

Bruce M

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 04:24 PM

Bruce
We are normal parents trying to deal with a situation that is not our daughters making. We owe it to her.
Incidentally it isn't Villain. It is Villan. I am an Aston Villa supporter, and they are called the Villan's not Villians. Some people might think differently. :-).
I might still see if he will donate that song to the Autistic Society, for funding purposes. Do you think the lyrics might be appropriate?

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Peace
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 04:34 PM

Gotcha. Gotta remember, measure twice, cut once. Measure twice, cut once. Cut it four times and it's still too short.

I think that would be a wonderful idea. He always had a social conscience that showed in his songs.

Sorry about the name thing. Could have sworn I read Villain. Now I have to go back a reread all the classics. Tim Sawyer, Hick Finn, Captain Nero (Nautilus, Rome, whatever).

Later, Villan.

Bruce M

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 04:47 PM

By the way Bruce, I wasn't having a go at you. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Peace
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 04:52 PM

Oh, Villan, I know that. Not to worry. If I knew how to put those things here, I would. (:-:) Hope that's not something rude. LOL

Bruce M

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Peace
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 04:59 PM

I would like for some parents I've met over the years to talk with you. Your approach is excellent, and the rewards your child will reap as a result are priceless. Most of the 'heroes' in my life have been people who take care of business on a day to day basis: people who don't perceive themselves to be extraordinary, but really are. Parents like you two fall into that category. Bless you. BM

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: joe hill
Date: 08 Mar 04 - 05:05 PM

One sign of Asperger's syndrome is not imediately thinking of two different meanings of the same word at the same time. Hense the funny 'gay' story, born on a Sunday, and the difficullty for so many to follow the fast flow for humour that relies on play on words. The child with Aspergers might get into trouble at school because they don't follow some meaning and 'arrogantly' insist that their teacher is talking rubbish. This gets them the reputation of being argumentative and the class clown. Its hard to imagine what the world must look like through their eyes.

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Morticia
Date: 08 Mar 04 - 06:03 PM

I asked someone with AS once how he saw the world.He told me he thought we were all mind readers and he was the only one that wasn't.He could see that other people had access to the kind of communication that was closed to him i.e body language,facial expression, humour and so on. He couldn't see how it was done, that we could know how someone was feeling without it being explicitly said.

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: GUEST,Ely
Date: 08 Mar 04 - 07:17 PM

My brother and my mom used to get into arguments because my parents were harder on him about his grades than they were on me (I was diagnosed with AS when I was in college; I'm a girl). My mom could never explain to him that it was always going to be harder for me than it was for him. We seem to have a family history of it: me, my dad, probably my grandmother, and almost certainly her father, who was a legendary family eccentric.

I was originally diagnosed as ADD but that never fit. By the time the AS diagnosis came about, I was on my last year in college and had changed to a major that better fit my learning capabilities so it wasn't such an issue, although I've always felt that I was cheated a bit out of my science classes because the so-called counselor just told me to stop partying so much. I told her I wasn't partying at all but since I had no standing diagnosis of learning disorders the school wouldn't do anything to help.

It was easier when I was a kid; my pets and toys were my best friends since I never really understood people. I've learned to deal with it more but it's lonely because I still relate poorly to other people and have a very hard time "bonding" with them. It's like dealing with another species; I may like cats and be familiar with their specialized meows and body language, but I'll never be a cat and I'll never completely understand what goes on in their minds.

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Peace
Date: 08 Mar 04 - 08:26 PM

Well, GUEST Ely, get yourself memberized here and visit often. Here, you will be a 'cat (I made a funny), and people are very accepting. Crazy, but accepting. Think about it, OK?

Bruce M

Before one of you sicko 'catters jumps on the "memberized" remark, . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 02:41 PM

memberized - I will make a mental note of it.

Thanks folks. I am not sure it makes a diagnosis any easier but then it was only ever a guide for me to help understand. But like so much that is good and right about the 'cat - you ask a question and go on a journey that makes the question somewhat arbitrary - except as a catalyst.

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: GUEST,bagpuss
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 03:20 PM

Just to add a little to what has already been said, in general, AS tends to be fairly stable over time. If you exhibit the characteristics, you tend to have them with you all the time (although you may learn strategies to help lessen their impact). The symptoms also tend to appear in childhood. Schizophrenia in contrast tends to show itself in "episodes". One can live normally for long periods of time (although there is some evidence that schizophreics often exhibit characteristics of personality disorders throughout their lives), then, often in times of stress, the symptoms with show themselves in what is known as a psychotic episode. Schizophrenia sometimes appears in childhood, but more often in adolescence or early adulthood or even later.

As to the symptoms themselves, AS tends to manifest itself as a difficulty with reading other peoples emotions, or understanding other peoples points of view, having a strong interest in a narrow area, sometimes seeming obsessional to another person, and some difficulties with language eg in understanding metaphors etc.

Schizophrenia is characterised by the onset of psychotic episodes in which the person often has hallucinations like voices speaking to them - often very negative voices, and delusions. It can also be accompanied by difficulties in forming coherent thoughts and expessing oneself coherently.

Thats a very quick summary off the top of my head, but I hope it is helpful.

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: M.Ted
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 04:13 PM

Bagpuss made some very, very, very, important points--it is important to understand that AS more or less a sensory input disability--for some reason, the AS person is not able to process information that others are getting, but, as you can see from the posts above, the AS person has perfectly normal thought processes and appropriate emotions--Schizophrenia is a disease that distorts the thought processes and causes extreme and inappropriate fluctuations in emotions--

Without meaning to impune Mr. Red, the outward signs of AS and Schizophrenia are very different, and it seems a bit odd that he is comparing the two--it is true that Schizophrenics have some of the AS problems, but they are pychotic, and their delusional/psychotic ideation and behaviors are what make them schizophrenics--Asperger Syndrome people don't have that stuff--

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Hawker
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 04:30 PM

My beautiful eldest daughter has AS and she is an absolute joy, we love her so much and are very proud of her, she writes fantastic songs and has a beautiful singing voice, and her good traits far outweigh the negatives (her intense hatred of loud noises, her ability to hear a ticking clock, her various facinations over the years with dolphins and peacocks, her inability to deal with sudden changes in her routine, and her dislike for strangers, strange situations and crowds -folk festivals are hell for her, but give her her dues, she grins and bears them!) she is 13 now and is able to understand her condition now, and deals with it better for having that understanding, she says that for yeras she thought she was an alien! now she realises there are others like her and that makes her feel better, not such a freak and less alone. For anybody who wants to know more I would recommend 'Freaks, Geeks and Aspergers Syndrome' by Luke Jackson - an AS person himself.
We have seen her blosson from a frightened, confused child into a not quite but nearly confident,intelligent young lady of 13, with a beautiful smile, an interesting sense of humour and a fantastic and very different outlook on the world which keeps the rest of us on our toes!
Nothing in this world is black and white (an AS person would probably not understand that statement) nor is the diagnosis of AS, but what a boring world it would be if we were all the same!
Cheers, Lucy

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Rasener
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 05:02 PM

Nice post hawker.
I remember when we said to my daughter for the first time "Look its raining cats and dogs".

reply, "I can't see any cats or dogs" and then going into a tantrum, because she wanted to see the cats and dogs.

She won't get dressed in the morning until she has had her breakfast. That can be a problem at times.
She stays in bed until we shout " come downstairs your ready brek is on the table" If we say come downstairs your breakfast is on the table she goes beserk. We are not allowed to say Breakfast.

Another good one.
Taking her to school one morning.
A rather large lady is in front of us with her daughter.
What does she say out of the blue - "That fat ladies daughter is in my class" cringe, hide run.

We once went into a supermarket, and there was this midget shopping. We had to steer our daughter away from her. I guess you know why.

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: GUEST,mysti
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 06:28 PM

I am the mother of a child with a growth disorder and I'd just like to let people know that the term 'midget' is highly offensive.
Thanks

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Scoville
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 08:58 PM

Bruce M--thanks! I've been here a little while but I couldn't reset my damned cookie so I'm back under a new name (formerly Ely).

My senior year of college, after I was "tagged" as AS, the dean called one day and told me they had just admitted a new girl who also had AS and she was worried about being in college, would I go talk to her. It was a very odd experience. It had never occurred to me that my mannerisms might have something to do with my AS, but talking to her was like talking to myself in a mirror. We had the same speech patterns, hand motions, etc.

Hawker--I'll look up the Jackson book. My mom was afraid to tell me the results of my psychological testing; she was afraid I'd feel "labelled". I said it didn't matter--I already knew I was different so I might as well have a name for it, right? Much better than just being weird with no explanation.

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: Peace
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 10:40 PM

I felt that way, too. I knew I was different, and there was no name. It wasn't until my daughter was diagnosed that I knew what I had had all this time. I looked up stuff on hyperlexia, and there I was. Lots of it was me. Scoville, great to 'see' you. BM

GUEST, mysti: The Villan is a really good person, and he would never have intentionally offended anyone in that manner. Bruce M

Villan: Sorry to speak for you, buddy, and if I'm outta line I apologize. Bruce M

Subject: RE: BS: Asperger's Syndrome - facts needed
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 10:54 PM

In Either Case....they were aware and:


Guilty...GUILTY.....GUILTY

Hang the crimal and remove their defective gene to from the pool.

Sincerely,

Gargoyle