BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized

Subject: BS: Permaculture Edu. Bus seized in Minneapo
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 12:10 AM

I received this from a very reliable Mudcat friend who got is from Starhawk, a very well-known author and activist. THIS needs to be looked into, imo!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hey friends, we need your help! Our Earth Activist Training Sustainable Skills Bus has been seized without cause by the police. Below is an account from the Wilsons, who have been travelling in the bus for the last seven months doing trainings in permaculture and sustainability, including ways you can help. My own accounts from the action can be found on www.starhawk.org and I'll be posting daily as long as I can—or sign on to my own list by emailing [e-mail]. If you're on that list, my own account follows. Please support these folks who have been doing such good work for us all. Thanks!


POLICE SEIZE PERMIBUS

Please Post Far and Wide including any Media Contacts You May Have

At approximately 6:25 pm on August 30, 2008 Minneapolis Police, Minnesota State Troopers, Ramsey County Sheriffs, Saint Paul Police, and University of Minnesota Police pulled over the Earth Activist Training Permaculture Demonstration Bus (Permibus) by exit 237 on Interstate 94. Initially the police told the people on the bus to exit. When the people on the bus asked if they were being detained they were told that they were but police were unable to provide justification. When asked why they pulled the bus over they refused to answer. After repeated requests to explain why the bus had been stopped Officer Honican of the Minneapolis Police explained that this was just a routine traffic stop though he did not explain the reason for the traffic stop. The police then told Stan Wilson, the driver and registered owner of the Permibus, that they were going to impound the bus in case they wanted to execute a search warrant later. After more than an hour of being questioned by Stan and Delyla Wilson as to the legalities of their detainment and the impoundment of the Permibus, the police then informed Stan that the bus, which is legally registered as a passenger vehicle in the state of Montana, was being impounded for a commercial vehicle inspection. Shortly afterward Sergeant Paul Davis, a commercial vehicle inspector arrived on scene. Despite the polices insistence that the reason for impoundment was for a commercial vehicle inspection the Permibus crew were not allowed to remove anything from the bus including computers, toiletries, and 17-year-old Megan Wilson's shoes. The police finally allowed the animals to be removed from the Permibus before it was towed, leaving the Permibus family standing beside their chickens and dogs, homeless on the highway.

The Permibus was relocating from the Bedlam Theatre in Minneapolis, where they had spent the day teaching Urban Permaculture, to a friend's house in Saint Paul for a well deserved break. The Permibus has been in the Minneapolis area since August 2nd when the crew appeared at the Midtown Farmers Market for a morning of Permaculture education including Permaculture 101, chicken care, seed ball making for kids, and the Permi-puppet show. During the past month the Permibus has parked at several local businesses and, as a neighborly gesture of respect for local police, Mr. Wilson contacted the appropriate precincts just to let them know the Permibus was in the area and had permission from the business owners to be parked on their lot. Through this, as well as other casual discussions with Minneapolis and Saint Paul police officers, the Permibus crew found the local police to be interested and respectful. However on August 30th all that changed when, for no apparent valid reason the police pulled over and seized the Permibus. After the incident Stan Wilson said, "If the combined law enforcement of Minneapolis, Saint Paul, Ramsey County, and the State of Minnesota can pull over and impound a vehicle and home used to teach organic gardening and sustainability, one has to wonder what it is our government really fears. After all, we seek to teach people that the real meaning of homeland security is local food, fuel and energy production. For that we have had our lives stolen by government men with guns."

As of now, after repeated requests to be present at any vehicle inspection, with an list of what they are inspecting for, as well as requests to be served any warrants for searches of the vehicles prior to a search and to be present during the search the Permi-family has been unable to ascertain the current status of the Permibus. On site Mr. Wilson was told that Officer Palmerranky was the inspector in charge of the case and would determine if the Permi-family's rights protecting them from unreasonable search and seizure would be respected. Neither Officer Palmerranky nor his supervisor has yet to return Mr. Wilson's calls. The loss of her home and possessions is particularly difficult on seventeen-year-old Megan Wilson. Megan, a shining example of what this country asks of today's youth, has dedicated herself to making positive changes in the world. She was the youth keynote speaker at the Local to Global conference in Phoenix AZ, has taught conflict resolution at youth shelters and is the outreach coordinator for the Skills for a New Millennium Tour, the family traveling educational project. Megan believes that, "While I understand that the world we live in is not as it should be I strive to live and teach in a way that shows the world how life could be. What I don't understand is why I can't get dressed for an evening out with friends in my own home without armed men stealing my life out from under me." The Permi-family, along with their dogs and Permaculture super-hero chickens are currently being housed by folks in the Twin Cities.


The Skills for a New Millennium Tour is a family education project that travels around the United States teaching homesteading, citizenship, and life skills at farmers markets, community gardens, churches, intentional communities, schools, and in people's living rooms. The Skills Tour is a donation supported project dedicated to providing tools for sustainable living, including Permaculture, to anyone who is interested, regardless of income. "We believe that any solution that is not accessible to the poor and urban areas is not a real solution for the future," states Delyla Wilson. Permaculture is a design system with ethics and principles that can be applied to food production, home design, and community building in order to increase sustainability in food production, energy production, and social systems. The Permibus is a rolling demonstration of small scale sustainable living with three people, three dogs, three chickens, and a box of worms as permanent residence. The chickens and worms are part of a closed-loop food productions composting system that supports the Permibus's traveling garden. For more information on the seizure of the Permibus, the Skills for the New Millennium Tour, or Permaculture, the Wilson's can be reached at 406-721-8427 or through email at [e-mail]. You can also see pictures and read stories about the last six months of their educational adventures at permibus.livejournal.com.

To our supporters: First we ask that as many people as possible contact precinct one in Minneapolis, MN at 612-673-5701 and Mayor Rybak at Phone: [phone] or

call 311 or call [phone] outside Minneapolis.

Also call the Ramsey County Sheriff   

Sheriff - Bob Fletcher 651-266-9300

and demand the immediate release of the Permibus.

We are also in desperate need of donations. Though we do not yet know the full cost of getting the permibus returned we know that it will include tow fee, impound fees, and legal fees. To donate contact us directly for a local address or...

Donate On-line:

Go to: www.earthactivisttraining.org/donate.htm

Click on: Donate Now!

Under "Gift Information" write: Permibus

Under "Please send acknowledgment of this gift to" write: [e-mail]

Donate by Mail:

Make check payable to: A.C.T.

On the "For" line write: Permibus

Send check to: A.C.T. 1405 Hillmount St. Austin, TX 78704

This post has been sent to you from [e-mail]. This is an announce-only listserve that allows Starhawk to post her writings occasionally to those who wish to receive them.

To subscribe to this list, send an email to [e-mail].

To unsubscribe, send an email to [e-mail].

Starhawk is a lifelong activist in peace and global justice movements, a leader in the feminist and earth-based spirituality movements, author or coauthor of ten books, including The Spiral Dance, The Fifth Sacred Thing, Webs of Power:Notes from the Global Uprising, and her latest, The Earth Path.

Starhawk's website is www.starhawk.org, and more of her writings and
information on her schedule and activities can be found there.
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Joe, I hope this fits on your big screen. I think it needs to be read by as many people as possible. Thanks!

---

Threads combined and duplicate copy-paste deleted. To see which message came from which thread, check the message titles.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Permaculture Edu. Bus seized near Minneapolis
From: open mike
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 12:35 AM

this sounds like a case of police control perhaps connected to the republican convention. good luck to the perma bus...

Subject: RE: BS: Permaculture Edu. Bus seized near Minneapolis
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 01:39 AM

Fascists

Subject: RE: BS: Permaculture Edu. Bus seized near Minneapolis
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 02:32 AM

Here's more which another Mudcatter sent to me:


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/31/raids/print.html

Federal government involved in raids on protesters
More extraordinary than these extreme raids is the fact that they are generating so little attention and even less outcry.

Glenn Greenwald
Aug. 31, 2008 | (update below)

As the police attacks on protesters in Minnesota continue...

(update below)

Subject: RE: BS: Permaculture Edu. Bus seized near Minneapolis
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 02:40 AM

Here is a link to I Witness Video

Subject: RE: BS: Permaculture Edu. Bus seized near Minneapolis
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 03:31 AM

Here's the account of Amy Goodman's arrest as a part of the orchestrated intimidation campaign that the RNC is waging against journalists in Minneapolis...

http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2008/9/1/update_democracy_now_s_amy_goodman_sharif_abdel_kouddous_and_nicole_salazar_released_after_illegal_arrest_at_rnc

Subject: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: Stringsinger
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 12:49 PM

Dear Friends,

This from a musician friend in Minnesota.

The RNC convention here in St. Paul just started, but attacks on peaceful citizens were in full swing all weekend. A friend of mine was handcuffed in his own yard for hosting a legal observer/reporter, and even in South Minneapolis, miles from the event, FBI agents were raiding homes and vehicles, without warrants, that they deemed "suspect." Nobody was breaking the law, yet found themselves looking down the barrel of an assault weapon. Or hauled off to jail without being charged with a crime. It's appalling and scary stuff. Now the full-scale protests have begun at the convention. Let's keep an eye on things there.
Please forward and get the word out.


http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/31/raids/
Sunday Aug. 31, 2008 11:46 EDT Federal government involved in raids on protesters (update below) As the police attacks on protesters in Minnesota continue -- see this video of the police swarming a bus transporting members of Earth Justice, seizing the bus and leaving the group members stranded on the side of the highway -- it appears increasingly clear that it is the Federal Government that is directing this intimidation campaign. Minnesota Public Radio reported yesterday that "the searches were led by the Ramsey County Sheriff's office. Deputies coordinated searches with the Minneapolis and St. Paul police departments and the Federal Bureau of Investigation."
Today's Star Tribune added that the raids were specifically "aided by informants planted in protest groups." Back in May, Marcy Wheeler presciently noted that the Minneapolis Joint Terrorist Task Force -- an inter-agency group of federal, state and local law enforcement led by the FBI -- was actively recruiting Minneapolis residents to serve as plants, to infiltrate "vegan groups" and other left-wing activist groups and report back to the Task Force about what they were doing. There seems to be little doubt that it was this domestic spying by the Federal Government that led to the excessive and truly despicable home assaults by the police yesterday.
So here we have a massive assault led by Federal Government law enforcement agencies on left-wing dissidents and protesters who have committed no acts of violence or illegality whatsoever, preceded by months-long espionage efforts to track what they do. And as extraordinary as that conduct is, more extraordinary is the fact that they have received virtually no attention from the national media and little outcry from anyone. And it's not difficult to see why. As the recent "overhaul" of the 30-year-old FISA law illustrated -- preceded by the endless expansion of surveillance state powers, justified first by the War on Drugs and then the War on Terror -- we've essentially decided that we want our Government to spy on us without limits. There is literally no police power that the state can exercise that will cause much protest from the political and media class and, therefore, from the citizenry.
Beyond that, there is a widespread sense that the targets of these raids deserve what they get, even if nothing they've done is remotely illegal. We love to proclaim how much we cherish our "freedoms" in the abstract, but we despise those who actually exercise them. The Constitution, right in the very First Amendment, protects free speech and free assembly precisely because those liberties are central to a healthy republic -- but we've decided that anyone who would actually express truly dissident views or do anything other than sit meekly and quietly in their homes are dirty trouble-makers up to no good, and it's therefore probably for the best if our Government keeps them in check, spies on them, even gets a little rough with them.
After all, if you don't want the FBI spying on you, or the Police surrounding and then invading your home with rifles and seizing your computers, there's a very simple solution: don't protest the Government. Just sit quietly in your house and mind your own business. That way, the Government will have no reason to monitor what you say and feel the need to intimidate you by invading your home. Anyone who decides to protest -- especially with something as unruly and disrespectful as an unauthorized street march -- gets what they deserve.
Isn't it that mentality which very clearly is the cause of virtually everyone turning away as these police raids escalate against citizens -- including lawyers, journalists and activists -- who have broken no laws and whose only crime is that they intend vocally to protest what the Government is doing? Add to that the fact that many good establishment liberals are embarrassed by leftist protesters of this sort and wish that they would remain invisible, and there arises a widespread consensus that these Government attacks are perfectly tolerable if not desirable.
During the Olympics just weeks ago, there was endless hand-wringing over the efforts by the Chinese Government to squelch dissent and incarcerate protesters. On August 21, The Washington Post fretted: Six Americans detained by police this week could be held for 10 days, according to Chinese authorities, who appear to be intensifying their efforts to shut down any public demonstrations during the final days of the Olympic Games. . . . Chinese Olympic officials announced last month that Beijing would set up zones where people could protest during the Games, as long as they had received permission. None of the 77 applications submitted was approved, however, and several other would-be protesters were stopped from even applying. On August 2, The Post gravely warned: Behind the gray walls and barbed wire of the prison here, eight Chinese farmers with a grievance against the government have been consigned to Olympic limbo. Their indefinite detainment, relatives and neighbors said, is the price they are paying for stirring up trouble as China prepares to host the Beijing Games. Trouble, the Communist Party has made clear, will not be permitted.
Would The Washington Post ever use such dark and accusatory tones to describe what the U.S. Government does? Of course it wouldn't. Yet how is our own Government's behavior in Minnesota any different than what the Chinese did to its protesters during the Olympics (other than the fact that we actually have a Constitution that prohibits such behavior)? And where are all the self-righteous Freedom Crusaders in our nation's establishment organs who were so flamboyantly criticizing the actions of a Government on the other side of the globe as our own Government engages in the same tyrannical, protest-squelching conduct with exactly the same motives?
Just review what happened yesterday and today. Homes of college-aid protesters were raided by rifle-wielding police forces. Journalists were forcibly detained at gun point. Lawyers on the scene to represent the detainees were handcuffed. Computers, laptops, journals, diaries, and political pamphlets were seized from people's homes. And all of this occurred against U.S. citizens, without a single act of violence having taken place, and nothing more serious than traffic blockage even alleged by authorities to have been planned.
A man whose sister was one of those arrested at one of the raided houses in Minneapolis yesterday emailed me a photograph of her and her friend who was also arrested -- Monica Bicking and Eryn Trimme -- and he wrote this: They are still in custody. I've been told that the police have 36 hours to charge her, and that 36 hours starts after the labor day holiday, so they only have to charge her sometime Wednesday. It seems unlikely that they'd do anything to expedite her or Eryn's release. They were then planning to actually board up her house for unspecified "code violations", but apparently her neighbors were very vocal, and the police ended up agreeing not to do anything so long as the front door was fixed by 6pm (the front door they'd busted in). Heres is the extraordinary blog item I linked to yesterday from Eileen Clancy, one of the founders of I-Witness Video -- a NYC-based video collective which is in St. Paul to document the policing of the protests around this week's Republican National Convention, just as they did at the 2004 GOP Convention in New York. Clancy wrote this as a plea for help, as the Police surrounded her house and (before they had a search warrant) told everyone inside that they'd be arrested if they exited the home: This is Eileen Clancy . . . The house where I-Witness Video is staying in St. Paul has been surrounded by police. We have locked all the doors. We have been told that if we leave we will be detained. One of our people who was caught outside is being detained in handcuffs in front of the house. The police say that they are waiting to get a search warrant. More than a dozen police are wielding firearms, including one St. Paul officer with a long gun, which someone told me is an M-16.
We are suffering a preemptive video arrest. For those that don't know, I-Witness Video was remarkably successful in exposing police misconduct and outright perjury by police during the 2004 RNC. Out of 1800 arrests, at least 400 were overturned based solely on video evidence which contradicted sworn statements which were fabricated by police officers. It seems that the house arrest we are now under and the possible threat of the seizure of our computers and video cameras is a result of the 2004 success.
We are asking the public to contact the office of St. Paul Mayor Chris Coleman at 651-266-8510 to stop this house arrest, this gross intimidation by police officers, and the detention of media activists and reporters. That sounds like what it was: a cry for help from a hostage. Hours later, the Police finally obtained a search warrant -- for the wrong house, one adjacent to the house where they were being detained -- and nonetheless broke in, pointing guns, forced them to lay on the floor and handcuffed everyone inside (and handcuffed a National Lawyers Guild attorney outside). They searched the house, arrested nobody, and then left.
Any rational person planning to protest the GOP Convention would, in light of this Government spying and these police raids, think twice -- at least -- about whether to do so. That is the point of the raids -- to announce to citizens that they best stay in their homes and be good, quiet, meek, compliant people unless they want their homes to be invaded, their property seized, and have rifles pointed at them, too. The fact that this behavior is producing so little outcry only ensures, for obvious reasons, that it will continue in the future. We love our Surveillance State for keeping us safe and maintaining nice, quiet order.
UPDATE: A Professor at the University of Minnesota who lives in the neighborhood where one of the homes was raided yesterday sent photographs he took which rather conclusively demonstrate federal involvement in these raids:
And Feministing has the video of the scene yesterday where journalists were detained, along with an interview with the homeowner whose house was raided.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 12:57 PM

Huh...the FEDS are busting chops in St Paul on behalf of the Grand Old Party?

Maybe George was trying to help out and protect his friends from those frothing horrible bomb-throwing anarchists? Ya think?

This is a police state turnout the like of which we haven't seen since the dogs of Selma, as I said elsewhere.

Where is old Bull when you need him?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 01:12 PM

"Is it any wonder then that, within our own borders, law enforcement will use potentially lethal weapons in the absence of any serious threat -- simply to gain compliance? When the state decides that your behavior matters, you will obey. Yes, you may engage in debate -- within the parameters established by the state. Yes, you may ask questions -- if the state approves them. If you dare to step outside the boundaries set by the state, you will be brought into line, by force as required -- and by possibly lethal force. The United States government murders a million innocent people who never threatened it; of what significance is the life of a single student, especially since he's a "troublemaker" anyway?

We all know that if, say, Vladimir Putin or Hugo Chavez had put on the kind of display we've seen in Minneapolis and Denver, the entire American media-political establishment would be in full condemnatory cry about such "anti-democratic repression." But of course, there is nothing extraordinary about this blatant and brutal hypocrisy, either; Americans have long exempted themselves from the legal and moral standards they apply to others. (Others who fail to kowtow properly to the Washington line, that is; those who play ball with the Beltway barons -- such as Egypt, Israel and Saudi Arabia, to name a few -- are allowed to get away with murder. Literally.)

What happened in Minneapolis is neither extraordinary nor surprising. It is simply what happens in a police state, one in which the Leader claims the power to ignore every law, to order torture, murder and wars of aggression as he sees fit, to declare anyone on earth an "enemy combatant" (on criteria that he alone decides) and detain them, without charges, for as long as he wants -- and is never resisted in any of these egregious acts of tyranny by the political "opposition." Instead his crimes and authoritarian encroachments are continually excused, countenanced, justified, immunized, ignored or fully supported by the "opposition," whose leaders refuse to take any legal action against the multitude of state crimes, but instead say openly that their main goal is simply to seize power for their own co-opted and corrupted elite faction.

There are probably any number of names one could call such a system -- but a constitutional Republic is not one of them. Or as I put it last year:

The game is over. The crisis has passed -- and the patient is dead. Whatever dream you had about what America is, it isn't that anymore. It's gone. And not just in some abstract sense, some metaphorical or mythological sense, but down in the nitty-gritty, in the concrete realities of institutional structures and legal frameworks, of policy and process, even down to the physical nature of the landscape and the way that people live.

The Republic you wanted -- and at one time might have had the power to take back -- is finished. You no longer have the power to keep it; it's not there. It was kidnapped in December 2000, raped by the primed and ready exploiters of 9/11, whored by the war pimps of the 2003 aggression, gut-knifed by the corrupters of the 2004 vote, and raped again by its "rescuers" after the 2006 election. Beaten, abused, diseased and abandoned, it finally died. We are living in its grave.
"... (Chris Flloyd in the Baltimore Sun&Sentinel)

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 01:21 PM

"If you are not breaking the law you shouldn't worry about goverment surveillence"

popular retort regarding the Patriot Act, telephone & interent surveillence and the secret expanded power of the FBI and HLS.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 01:24 PM

...and it's perfectly true, right up to the moment when the police start bending or breaking the lawe.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 01:25 PM

Last I heard, Minnisota is a Democratic strong hold. This may qualify it as enemy territory full of enemy combatents.

Enemy Combabtents are damn lucky to have lawyers or Habeous Corpus rights.


As the arrests sort themselves out we should not have a knee jerk reaction that Shock Troops are indescriminently attacking citizens.

After all it is highly suspicious to be out walking the streets today.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 01:30 PM

or having guests in your home

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 01:31 PM

unless its an Evangelical education seminar

Subject: RE: BS: Permaculture Edu. Bus seized near Minneapolis
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 01:33 PM

Shocking

Today anything with the word EARTH in it is highly subversive.

Sustainability smacks of slapping big oil in the face.

remember...

Anything with the words Country or 'first' is OK

Subject: RE: BS: Permaculture Edu. Bus seized near Minneapolis
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 01:38 PM

When Police Departments are addicted to billions of dollars in drug enforcement hand outs, they will obey any order from their benefactors, no matter how outrageous or criminal it may be.

drug enforcment is a lynch pin to total police state control.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: Stringsinger
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 01:41 PM

Amy Goodman and Two Democracy Now! Producers Unlawfully Arrested at RNC
By , Democracy Now!
Posted on September 1, 2008, Printed on September 2, 2008
http://www.alternet.org/story/97194/



The following is an updated release from Democracy Now!

ST. PAUL -- Democracy Now! host Amy Goodman and producers Sharif Abdel Kouddous and Nicole Salazar have all been released from police custody in St. Paul following their illegal arrest by Minneapolis Police on Monday afternoon.

All three were violently manhandled by law enforcement officers. Abdel Kouddous was slammed against a wall and the ground, leaving his arms scraped and bloodied. He sustained other injuries to his chest and back. Salazar's violent arrest by baton-wielding officers, during which she was slammed to the ground while yelling, "I'm Press! Press!," resulted in her nose bleeding, as well as causing facial pain. Goodman's arm was violently yanked by police as she was arrested.

On Tuesday, Democracy Now! will broadcast video of these arrests, as well as the broader police action. These will also be available on: www.democracynow.org.

Goodman was arrested while questioning police about the unlawful detention of Kouddous and Salazar who were arrested while they carried out their journalistic duties in covering street demonstrations at the Republican National Convention. Goodman's crime appears to have been defending her colleagues and the freedom of the press.

Ramsey County Sheriff Bob Fletcher told Democracy Now! that Kouddous and Salazar were arrested on suspicion of rioting, a felony. While the three have been released, they all still face charges stemming from their unlawful arrest. Kouddous and Salazar face pending charges of suspicion of felony riot, while Goodman has been officially charged with obstruction of a legal process and interference with a "peace officer."

Democracy Now! forcefully rejects all of these charges as false and an attempt at intimidation of these journalists. We demand that the charges be immediately and completely dropped.

Democracy Now! stands by Goodman, Kouddous and Salazar and condemns this action by Twin Cities' law enforcement as a clear violation of the freedom of the press and the First Amendment rights of these journalists.

During the demonstration in which the Democracy Now! team was arrested, law enforcement officers used pepper spray, rubber bullets, concussion grenades and excessive force against protesters and journalists. Several dozen demonstrators were also arrested during this action, including a photographer for the Associated Press.

Amy Goodman is one of the most well-known and well-respected journalists in the United States. She has received journalism's top honors for her reporting and has a distinguished reputation of bravery and courage. The arrest of Goodman, Kouddous and Salazar and the subsequent criminal charges and threat of charges are a transparent attempt to intimidate journalists.

Democracy Now! is a nationally-syndicated public TV and radio program that airs on over 700 radio and TV stations across the US and the

globe.

© 2008 Democracy Now! All rights reserved.
View this story online at: http://www.alternet.org/story/97194/

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: kendall
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 01:53 PM

Shades of 1968.

I remember reading about some jerk trying to rip a cop's badge off, and declaring, if he tried that on me he would wake up in the hospital.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 02:03 PM

When you ride
That protest bus,
The cops up north
Don't make a fuss,
They come to greet you,
Maybe to beat you
For making trouble...

You get on board
You're doing fine
Until you cross that
Ramsey County line,
You know the heat's on
'Cuz they've got sheets on,
You're making trouble.

And John McCain
Will flash is smile,
He'll say "Now folks,
Cool down awhile.
These guys are voters,
So kill your motors,
You're makin' trouble...

Bob FLetcher came
With twenty more,
Left Amy Goodman
Bleeding on the floor.
She said "I'm press!"
They yelled "Arrest!"
"For makin' trouble..."

Picture the celebration!
Picture the bright blue lights!
Federal mobilization!
Just to infringe on
Civil rights

And when they're done,
They've done their best
They'll all get sued
For false arrest.
Fines will be super
For those storm troopers,
They found their trouble.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 02:08 PM

glad to have Amos imply his approval of violence, when it is on his side...


"Five people were arrested for lighting a trash bin on fire and pushing it into a police car, St. Paul police spokesman Tom Walsh said.

About 20 anarchists who had started the trash bin fire later tried to block the intersection of St. Peter and Exchange streets. Police quickly dispersed the group, then shot two tear gas canisters at the fleeing anarchists.

Pictures taken by Associated Press photographers showed officers using pepper spray on protesters who appeared to be trying to block streets.

"There are people who are committing violations of law and they're being arrested," Walsh said.

About 200 people from a group called Funk the War noisily staged its own separate march. Wearing black clothes, bandanas and gas masks, some of their members smashed windows of cars and stores. They tipped over newspaper boxes, pulled a big trash bin into the street, bent the rear view mirrors on a bus and flipped heavy stone garbage bins on the sidewalks.
...
Meanwhile, a group of about 100 anarchists pushed a trash bin filled with trash and threw garbage in the streets and at cars. They also took down orange detour road signs. One of them used a screwdriver to puncture the back tire of a limousine waiting at an intersection and threw a wooden board at the vehicle, denting its side. Another hurled a glass bottle at a charter bus that had stopped at an intersection. The bottle smashed into pieces but didn't appear to damage the bus."

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 02:13 PM

"ST. PAUL — Thousands of protesters, many of them demonstrating against the war in Iraq, marched on Monday through the streets outside the arena where the Republican National Convention is being held, with some smashing windows and battling with the police in clashes that led to more than 250 arrests.

"

Full story in the NYT on this page, with photo. The image is so resonant of the battles of Selma and Berkeley in the 1960's it is somewhat electrifying. In one part of my heart, I am proud of those who were protesting, but not those who were doing so violently. In another part, I am dismayed.

This really does not speak well for the reputation of the GOP.

Another casualty of Mister Bush's Blind Spot.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: GUEST,Jim Dixon
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 02:16 PM

It appears anarchists are the new communists.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 02:20 PM

Obama supporter's true view of free speech- from the above NYT article:

"In one of the most chaotic moments, members of the Republican delegation from Connecticut said they were shoved and spat upon by protesters near the convention hall, according to the state party's executive director, Heath Fahle. He wrote an item on the party's blog describing a "human chain" of protesters who tried to block Republicans at a security perimeter near the convention site. Besides the shoving and spitting, the protesters shouted epithets at the dozens of delegates, Mr. Fahle wrote. "


Glad to see that you, Amos, are proud of behaviour so like the Brownshirts. I guess it is ok, since they are just saying the same thing that you are.


Amos: "This really does not speak well for the reputation of the GOP."

The GOP did not do any of this to the Democratic Convention- this is an example of how Obama can lose the respect of those in the middle that he needs to win the election. Waiting for him ( or even his supporters) to come down hard on these people...

This really does not speak well for the reputation of the Left, in general. You blame the Republicans for the police actions, so don;t try to tell me that these people are not encouraged and supported by those of you supporting Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 02:28 PM

Bruce:

There were large numbers of peaceful protesters, and a smaller number of violent ones.

There is no evidence that Obama, his campaign, or anyone in particular of his supporters were fomenting the disorder. It is natural to assume, since they were protesting the Republican administratiojn, that most of the protestors, violent or not, were probably of the Obama persuasion, but to impugn a causative connection ion that regard is disingenuous.

The anger of these protestors, it should be pointed out, comes from exactly the same heavy-hamded disrespect that has been institutionalized by Bush, Rove, Wolfowitz and their ilk. The suspension of rights, the invasions of privacy, and the use of police-state tactics justified by the generalized "war" on "terror" has done more to damage our civil relations than can be tallied.

So yes, these protests very much reflect on the repute of the GOP as the party of creeping fascism, disrespect of individuals and the undermining of civil liberties and the Consitution.

Had the Bsuh administration taken more care to defend the actual freedoms of American citizens, instead of steamrolling them in a hyperactive dramatization of frenetic war-mongering, these protests, IMHO, would not have occurred.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 02:36 PM

Amos,

You are saying that the police actions are due to the Bush administration's policies?

YOU have a large burden of proof there- I claim that the violent demonstrators are due to the Democratic attacks on the Bush administreation, and the "Anything is ok against Bush" Democratic party line policy that you and others have been pushing. It does Obama nothing but harm, yet you continue to act in a manner that causes any not already in your frame of mind to reject it as beyond reasonable discussion.

Feel free to continue- you only hurt your own goals.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 02:37 PM

"ST. PAUL — Carrying messages of change and a call to end the Iraq War, several thousand people of all walks of life bore down on the state's capital Monday on the first day of the Republican National Convention.

Chanting "Peace now, peace now," at the start of the flood of protesters, the people marched through sweltering heat from the Capitol to the Xcel Energy Center and back.

From all angles, protesters were greeted by curious crowds and SWAT team members looking on.

"I'm out here because I want change — I want Obama," said one protester, Sandra Peterson, of St. Paul. "I just want to be one more person to be against the war and for change."

Peterson said she had never taken part in a protest before but decided that morning to do so.

"We're average Americans just wanting a better country," she said as she walked with a friend.

Though a majority of the protesters walked peacefully by without raising any problems, there were a few bouts of disruption. By the end of the day, more than 50 people were arrested and several were also pepper-sprayed or tear-gassed.


(Photo by Brie Cohen: After engaging in a friendly chat, a police member and a March on the RNC staff member stand near one another as they watch the march.)

Besides those protesters, most people walked peacefully by, holding signs with phrases such as "Money for human needs not for war," "Impeach Bush now," and "McCain votes against veterans," to name a few.

A group of young men chanted, "Bring us home, we are the troops!" while yet other groups chanted, "Bush and McCain, more of the same" and "Hey, Hey go home. The war in Iraq has got to go."

Bea Bogusky, one observer of the protest, said she was brought to tears by one man she saw walk by carrying a sign. The sign read: "Bush wounded my son in June of 2008. Please send him home. Please stop the war."


It touched her, she said, because she has a few sons of her own.

"I agree to end the war," Bogusky said. "And I'm just happy to be here to watch the democratic process in action."

Her son, Tom Whitney, from the west side of St. Paul, said he agreed.

"They've got a right to protest and say what they want," he said. "The war should stop. We need to fund education and get people back to work — we do need that. But we don't need people rallying for welfare."

Whitney said he was for peace and the for the end of the Iraq War.

.
Ted and Mary Hinnenkamp, who are involved with the weekly protests in Albert Lea, said they decided last-minute to participate in the event. They missed most of the march, but got to St. Paul for the rally afterward.

Mary noted how many different groups of people were in attendance, each attempting to have their voice heard about their specific concerns.

For her, she said, one of her main concerns is ending the war in Iraq.

"Regardless of if we have less deaths, the cost continues," she said. "No country is so wealthy to continue that kind of thing."


(Photo by Brie Cohen: A member of the police SWAT team steps back from his line to take a picture of the protestors walking past him. )

She said as a whole she's always puzzled why more people don't get involved in speaking out about their concerns because she knows many people are outraged by some of the things going on in the country right now, but are afraid to speak out.

Jovita E. Zamarripa, who watched the march from her apartment at 5 West Seventh Street, said she was impressed with the protest.

"We do need a new president," Zamarripa said. "I'm hoping Obama."

..."

---

This account makes it seem much more balanced and less disruptive on both sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: Peace
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 02:39 PM

'an inter-agency group of federal, state and local law enforcement led
>> by the FBI -- was actively recruiting Minneapolis residents to serve
>> as plants, to infiltrate "vegan groups"'

So THAT'S who caused the problem. It was the Vegans. I damned well told you guys that aliens exist. Perhaps NOW you'll believe me. Vega is about 25 light years from Earth.

Tinfoil hat MY ASS! I trust some apologies will be forthcoming.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 02:39 PM

ST. PAUL, Minn. — Alma farmer Stephen Anderson bore down for 50 minutes in the free-speech zone at the Republican National Convention.

He ranted Monday about bellicose politicians, outrageous trade agreements and greedy global corporations.


Three people were there to listen on a dead-end street with several layers of security fence shielding his words from GOP delegates. Disappointment flowed from his voice like the sweat that dripped from the brim of his cowboy hat. This is the same man who hauled a wheelbarrow and 25 pounds of horse dung to Minnesota in a car decorated with an "Impeach Bush" sticker to add flavor to his message that the United States was on the wrong path.

"Rural America is dead, but nobody has had the guts to write the obituary," Anderson said. "To top it off, they put me in a dark hole and called it a public space."

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 02:41 PM

You state:
"There were large numbers of peaceful protesters, and a smaller number of violent ones."


Yes, there were a large number of protestors ( thousands)- and how many were arrested? About 250- the violent ones who acted illegally. YET you claim a Republican controlled police state. YOU have a large burden of proof on this- I see Obama supporters violating the law and trying to prevent others' free speech ( attending the convention).

Waiting on Obama to show what class he has ( I give him full credit and applause for his comments about Palin's duaghter, btw- THAT was the action or a worthy candidate.)

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: Peace
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 02:44 PM

PS I think the cops read the playbook from Chicago, 1968. Stunned arseholes never do learn. And it's good to see the FBI stepping on their damned cranks yet again. They were unable to stop 9/11 despite having info indicating something was about to happen, but they sure helped put the clamps on the protesting folks in Minnesota. Great defenders of the American Way. Keriste. Do you pay these people salaries? If it's more than minimum wage, as taxpayers you're gettin' screwed.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: Peace
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 02:46 PM

BB, why are they Obama supporters? I'll reiterate Kendall's remark: How can ya tell?

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 02:49 PM

LEt's ask Amy Goodman if there was any police brutality. What I claimed was that the Federal Government apparently saw fit to mobilize well in advance to suppress protest. They recruited shills to penetrate protest organizations, well in advance. They, or the local police, broke into homes where nothing illegal was occurring and slammed people to the floor at gunpoint who were not engaged in any illegal action.

So maybe it isn't a Republican controlled police-state type thing. Maybe the FBI has gone rogue?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 02:52 PM

BB-
When was the last time you saw 20 anarchists in one place? Anywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 02:59 PM

"What I claimed was that the Federal Government apparently saw fit to mobilize well in advance to suppress protest. They recruited shills to penetrate protest organizations, well in advance. They, or the local police, broke into homes where nothing illegal was occurring and slammed people to the floor at gunpoint who were not engaged in any illegal action. "


CLAIMED- how about some facts beyond your word on this?


The articles talk about the protestors being Obama supporters, and Amos admitted that they probably were- far more evidence then presented to back up his claims of Republican controlled Police state.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 03:05 PM

Dick,

I see hundreds every year, here in DC- check any World Bank meeting. ( and they act the same way- only THEIR free speech is protected, it seems. The rest of us had better shut up and let them block rads, destroy property, and disrupt our work.)

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 03:10 PM

Bruce:

Stop twisting.

Those reports were from links I have already posted, I believe.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 03:27 PM

Claims without evidence other than your desire to bash Bush.

As I said, YOU are supporting people who are trying to deny the RNC reps their civl right.

Be Proud- You reflect the highest goals of the Democratic Party- to stifle all dissent and allow only those who agree with Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus se
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 04:18 PM

It is all very interesting and scary and worth following....

however... *sigh*... I do not like the routine of posting HUGE C&P articles...unless it is absolutely impossible to post a link to them elsewhere. If YOUR friend finds an article online and emails it to YOU, why, unless it has totally expired & disappeared, cannot you find the link and post a short, descriptive paragraph along with that link? I know...zooop/swish/ctrl v...and you are done, but sheeesh!
If I want to read the entire story, I will gladly follow that link.

Sometime ago Joe posted guidelines about large copy & paste items... some folks regularly push or exceed the limits.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 04:25 PM

Bruce, Bruce:

I am not supporting anyone who seeks to deny anyone their civil rights--that is rabid gibberish on your part. Nor am I supporting anyone who believes in the use of force majeure in order to subdue protest.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 04:44 PM

Bruce:

The post by Stringsinger, and the one from Amy Goodman, are factual recountings. In your temper, have you decided they must be lying for political gain or something?

Given that the Federal government was behind at least part of the strong-arming, and the occasion was the RN Convention, does it seem unlikely to you that the WHite House was directly involved? Just impossible? Maybe possible? Probable? A certainty? What?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: kendall
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 04:53 PM

Those rioters are acting just like the others did in 1968. The republicans did not foment that punch up and the democrats are not behind this one. People are fed up with 8 years of lies and they are finally answering my old question "Where is the outrage"?

BB I still can't tell the difference between an anarchist and a pissed off fed up citizen. If I were 50 years younger, I'd be there protesting too.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 05:01 PM

"As I said, YOU are supporting people who are trying to deny the RNC reps their civl right."

You are so full of crap it is coming out your ears.

Who is denying the RNC their rights?   Tell me how arresting Amy Goodman and a photographer from the Associated Press is denying the rights of the RNC.

Face it, the police have no clue on handling dissent. This has nothing to do with ANYONE protesting, it has everything to do with police out of control.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 05:02 PM

ST. PAUL, Minnesota (CNN) -- Almost 300 people will be formally charged in Ramsey County District Court on Tuesday after they were arrested during protests at the Republican National Convention, a police spokesman said.

Police detain people Monday at the Xcel Energy Center, site of the Republican National Convention in St. Paul.

Police arrested 284 people Monday after firing projectiles, pepper spray and tear gas to disperse a crowd demonstrating near the convention site.

Police used plastic handcuffs to detain between 20 and 30 of them a few blocks from the security perimeter around the Xcel Energy Center in downtown St. Paul.


St. Paul police said 130 of the 284 arrested were being held on felony charges. The rest were charged with various misdemeanors. iReport.com: Cops swarm bikers, protesters

A crowd of about 300 people conducted what appeared to be a sit-in in a parking lot near the Mississippi River on Monday. Watch police detain protesters »

Earlier in the day, a group of self-described anarchists threw park benches into streets and smashed windows, police said. iReport.com: Cop attacked by protester

St. Paul police spokesman Thomas Walsh said Monday afternoon that some of those arrested are accused of property damage and conspiracy to riot.

The arrest of the "anarchists" came after almost 5,000 protesters marched peacefully outside the site of the convention. Walsh said they were part of a "splinter group" of the main body of protesters. He said he would not characterize their activity as a protest. Watch police use pepper spray »


"I think they did a disservice to those that came here to protest," he said.

Five police cars were among the property that was damaged, Walsh said. Watch police take on protesters »

On Sunday, police saw little disruption ahead of the convention, which was scaled back because of Hurricane Gustav. Despite Monday's disruptions, the security plan is working, Walsh said.

"We had some expectation that there may be some of this activity," he said.

The Republican convention, which began Monday, has been designated a "national special security event," which means the Secret Service is responsible for planning and implementing security.

But the primary responsibility for street-level security falls to local police agencies. St. Paul received $50 million in federal grant money to pay for additional security. View the convention security plan »


The St. Paul Police Department estimated it would require $34 million to pay 3,500 extra officers. The remaining money is for training and equipment, the department said.

Numerous federal agencies are helping provide security, including the FBI, Federal Protective Service, Customs and Border Protection, the Coast Guard and the Transportation Security Administration.

---

Ah-- a national security event. That explains why the Feds.

I am curious whther this status gets awarded to all National Conventions, just the incumbents' (even though he only attended by satellite) or just the Republicans? How long have political processes been National Security Events? What does the classification mean?

Curious minds want to know...

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus se
From: Stringsinger
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 05:06 PM

What you don't get is there are operatives who foment problems that infiltrate in
protest groups, many hired by police or FBI. They cause a ruckus and then give a justification for police brutality.

Anarchist is another label for terrorist or communist fostered by a blood-sucking
news media. The same for "enemy combatant" which is un-American and denies due process.

The recent FISA degradation has given rise to a reactionary violence on the part of police and government operatives (some probably by the GOP). They vetted many black voters from
the rolls in Florida and Ohio so they are capable of anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus se
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 05:53 PM

Be very careful! After the Anarchists come the Nihilists!

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Leadfingers
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 06:43 PM

I dont for one minute think that it is much different either side of the pond . There are ALWAYS idiots who will take advantage of ANY protest march or peacefiul demonstration to 'have a go ' at the police , and to cause as much trouble as they can . It seems that Rent A Mob is ever ready to stir things up , then the police over react and all hell breaks loose !

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus se
From: Peace
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 07:08 PM

"The articles talk about the protestors being Obama supporters"

Well, maybe they are and maybe they're not. One thing for sure, however. They ain't McCain supporters and that's a good thing, imo.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: kendall
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 07:15 PM

Anarchists are not terrorists. They are people who want NO government.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Art Thieme
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 07:49 PM

Utah told me anarchists are people who don't need a cop to tell right from wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------

I sent the info in this thread around to a bunch of people after a reliable friend in Minnesota informed me early today what the hell was going down there. It's simply sickening how this behavior can be seen as anything but Gestapo-like and reprehensible. Civil rights and laws are being trampled as they were when Bush invaded Iraq, and stole American elections, and created Guantanamo and so much more. All in the name of paranoid National Security to make it all kosher and give them the contrived "excuse" to do it all simply because they want to do it -- so they do it. Those founding fathers they so easily deify are vomiting as they see their ideals being washed away down the toilet with whatever else was upchucked in their names.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 07:56 PM

by general orientation and personality, I suspect that many law officers are Republican/conservative. (No I can't offer proof or statistics... it just seems that the Republican platform fits.)

It 'might' explain a bit of how these protests are handled in various situations.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus se
From: Peace
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 08:05 PM

What should be clear to Americans is that your representatives in Government have sold your rights and a few freedoms under the guise of the Homeland Security Act and some Executive Orders. Many people have poo-poooed the idea, including some who've posted here. Well, poo-poo it now. That's just a very small taste of how it's gonna be real soon all the time. You have allowed your President and some real jerks in the Congress to over-ride fundamental rights. It may be too late to fight back now. Reap as you sow, etc. But lots of innocent people--kids, teens, are gonna be paying the price because of JQ Public's blase "We didn't think they meant to do THIS" attitude. WTF did people THINK they meant to do? Sit on the power and NOT use it?

Best wishes to you all.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus se
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 08:11 PM

Guess I'll go up to Alberta
Weather's good there in the fall;
I've got friends that I could go
A-workin' for....

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus se
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 08:30 PM

We'd really have to worry about the anarchist-syndacalists, but the only people that remember them have dentures, and can't say the words.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: kendall
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 08:38 PM

Anyone who is willing to sacrifice some freedom for security is quite apt to lose both. Was that T. Jefferson I just misquoted?

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus se
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 08:53 PM

Franklin, I believe, sir! :D


A

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus se
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 09:09 PM

"What should be clear to Americans is that your representatives in Government have sold your rights and a few freedoms under the guise of the Homeland Security Act and some Executive Orders. [snip] WTF did people THINK they meant to do? Sit on the power and NOT use it?"

I hereby invoke Godwin's law.

That should now simply this 'debate'... :-P

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 10:58 PM

At the last Republican convention, videographers caught police falsifying their accounts of what protesters who were arrested were doing. The group who did that is one of the groups who were targeted by police while in a home and not anywhere near any protests. This was done to intimidate them into not documenting the protests for this convention.

I don't know if they managed to make it to the protests this time, but whether they did or not, I wouldn't be willing to believe anything the police are saying about what people were doing without videographic evidence to back it up. If the RNC and the police don't want people videotaping the protests, it's a sure bet the the police intended to engage once again in illegal tactics and to falsify their accounts of what happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus se
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 11:23 PM

By contrast, a few days earlier at the DNC, this anecdote:

"An hour or so before Bill Clinton spoke on the third night of the convention, I received a text message from my friend with the terse missive "Massive march possibly violent" followed by a "Its getting crazy you should get over here."
I arrived to find several hundred people—most of them teenagers and 20-somethings—milling outside one of the security barricades surrounding the Pepsi Center (the outer perimeter, not to be confused with the inner outer perimeter, the outer inner perimeter or the inner inner perimeter).
The assembled protestors, ostensibly led by a group from Iraq Veterans Against the War, appeared to be domesticated, or at least housebroken. Still, a sizable contingent of riot police lingered nearby to monitor the situation. Then a loud, crackling voice boomed from a bullhorn somewhere beyond the crowd.
"This is the Denver Police Department," the authoritative voice began.
Ooooh, this is gonna be good.
"We have bottled water and restroom facilities for anybody who needs them. We will also bring over a PA so that everyone who wants to speak will have a chance to do so."..."


A

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 11:43 PM

I haven't read all of this yet, but it's too bad that it is "Starhawk." She's a complete flake--a wannabe on all sorts of fronts.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 12:12 AM

Godwin's Law may or may not play in this. The fact that some guy somewhere deduced that eventually any argument would sooner or later involve mention of Nazis or Hitlerian power means little in the face of arrests for bullshit charges. And that's what the cops have been doing with the help of the Federal government in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 12:26 AM

SRS, I agree she is a bit flaky and a wannabe, but she is still published and she does have a following, some of whom may not be so flaky. Anyway, from what I understand from the email I got, it was spotted on a listserve of hers, so it probably came from someone else, I guess? Regardless, what happened, happened, so I wouldn't let her name diminish it in any way, personally.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 12:31 AM

Here's video of the illegal detainment of the videographers...

http://aeconomics.blogspot.com/2008/09/police-raid-and-detainment-of-i-witness.html

I say illegal because even the warrant was bogus. The warrant the police produced was for a different address than the one where they searched and detained the videographers.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 12:34 AM

The really bizarre thing about this particular illegal search and detainment is that the police seemed to think they could make their actions legal if they entered the building through the correct address and then bust down an attic door leading to the wrong address. It doesn't matter how they got in, it was still the wrong address.


Fascists

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 12:36 AM

. . . and stupid, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 12:41 AM

Here's the website for the Permibus people...

http://permibus.tripod.com//id4.html


And this is their blog...

http://permibus.livejournal.com/

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 02:10 AM

Here's video of the police brutalizing and arresting members of the press (it's a long video and the footage is scattered throughout most of it)...

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/2/stream


Fascists

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 02:19 AM

Here's some more accounts of police harassment and intimidation of journalists...

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/1/democracy_now_s_elizabeth_press_detained

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: kendall
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 07:53 AM

No sound.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 02:20 PM

Kendall

"I still can't tell the difference between an anarchist and a pissed off fed up citizen. If I were 50 years younger, I'd be there protesting too. "


If you were there would you be destroying property, spitting on opponants ( or any that you disagree with) and blockig access?

If so, you should be arrested ( when you do that).
If not, you are not one of those I am complaining about.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 02:22 PM

Ron,

"Who is denying the RNC their rights?   Tell me how arresting Amy Goodman and a photographer from the Associated Press is denying the rights of the RNC."

The PROTESTERS that were acting illegally, spitting on RNC goers, blocking access, and destroying property were the ones denying those rights- DON"T make a strawman arguement about others that I did not say were acting illegally.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 02:27 PM

from Amos' post:

"St. Paul police said 130 of the 284 arrested were being held on felony charges. The rest were charged with various misdemeanors. iReport.com: Cops swarm bikers, protesters

A crowd of about 300 people conducted what appeared to be a sit-in in a parking lot near the Mississippi River on Monday. Watch police detain protesters »

Earlier in the day, a group of self-described anarchists threw park benches into streets and smashed windows, police said. iReport.com: Cop attacked by protester

St. Paul police spokesman Thomas Walsh said Monday afternoon that some of those arrested are accused of property damage and conspiracy to riot.

The arrest of the "anarchists" came after almost 5,000 protesters marched peacefully outside the site of the convention. Walsh said they were part of a "splinter group" of the main body of protesters. He said he would not characterize their activity as a protest. Watch police use pepper spray »


"I think they did a disservice to those that came here to protest," he said."

I have NO problem with peaceful protest- and NO tolerance for those defending the violent acts and destruction that many here seem to feel is "ok, as long as it is directed against RNC"

If these acts were being done against Obama, would you all be so quick to defend those breaking wiundows, slashing tires, and starting fires?

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 02:48 PM

The police are there to defend public order, property, and prevent interference with lawful commerce and activities.
It seems they did just that, and no more.

Troublemakers who challenge the police and interfere with activities of residents or deface property should be arrested and dealt with severely.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Amos
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 03:02 PM

Bruce:

Are you okay?

I ask because you seem to be slipping into an altered reality. I specifically said, upthread, that I had no brief for those who violated the law NOR for authroities who tried to deny others their fundamental civil rights. Yet in your histrionic rhetoric you insist that I support tire-burners and window-breakers.

Or were you speaking to someone else?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 03:29 PM

The police were preventing quite a lot of lawful activity as well (which makes what the police were doing unlawful). They were actively suppressing journalists and preventing them from doing their job.

On the subject of the anarchists, I would like to reiterate that if they were indeed anarchists (Anarchists), there were not Obama supporters. Anarchists hate Obama as much as they hate McCain.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 03:31 PM

Correction: if they were Anarchists, they were not Obama supporters.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 04:05 PM

Reporters egg on demonstrators so that reportable action is created. The police should, and do, control the activities of onlookers to prevent them from adding to the fooferaw.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: kendall
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 04:14 PM

BB, if I were there I would be exercising my 1st amendment right to freedom of speech and expression. I would not be breaking any laws.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 04:19 PM

Exactly, Kendall, and I support your right to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Barry Finn
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 04:53 PM

"Reporters egg on demonstrators so that reportable action is created"

How by meeting in a house? The searches & seizures of journalists & reporters at private locations & on buses isn't what I'd call the work of agent provocateurs or criminal. The excuse of destruction by demonstrators has a ring of waiting for one action by one person or a few actions by a few people to justify the a mass scale breach of civil rights not only on demonsrtators that may or may not have been "over the line" but alos it obivious that there's strong reason to believe that "reporters, journalists & video photographers in the line of their work & carrying out "the business of the people" were hauled in, in the same sweeping net. There's some room for error as far as the demonstrators goes, hopefully we'll see more proof but as to any members of any type of press corp or those attempting to record the days events turning up being searched & arrested & having property & evidence sezied that's not just over the line, that's in violation of not only a few laws but it's also in violation of a few constutitional amendants (assembly, free speach, S&S, warrants) & civil rights. It's also appaling that theirs no media coverage on these events considering that the press corps is already in place coverig convention events.
"God is coming to US from Alaska"

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 09:37 PM

The people who were documenting police abuses and providing a video record to use in court to show that police were falsifying their accounts of things people did had no reason to egg anyone on. They were there for the purpose of making sure that people didn't get punished for things they didn't do, and making sure that police didn't get away with abuse of power. And they were quite successful at it in 2004 at the RNC, which resulted in charges being dropped against more than 400 people.

And that's the real reason they go after the journalists. Not because the journalists egg people on (what a bizarre fantasy), but because they want to be able to conduct their abuses of power with impunity.

It's illegal to interfere with the media doing its work. That's an infringement on the freedom of the press, and on free speech. In fact, not only is it illegal, it's unconstitutional.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: kendall
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:20 PM

In war the first casualty is truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Amos
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:23 PM

Perfectly true, Skipper. What is the war, and who's fighting it?



A

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Mark Ross
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:45 PM

It's a class war, dammit!

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:50 PM

I'm with you, Mark. Good call.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: open mike
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 12:23 PM

the video of the journalist witnesses is an accurate picture of the situation. to have live video of this is a wonderful use of the technology. good for the eye witnesses!

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus se
From: Stringsinger
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:48 PM

This is what went on at the RNC when the funny GOP clowns were giving speeches.


Amy Goodman: Why We Were Falsely Arrested
By Amy Goodman, Truthdig
Posted on September 5, 2008, Printed on September 5, 2008
http://www.alternet.org/story/97632/

ST. PAUL, Minn. -- Government crackdowns on journalists are a true threat to democracy. As the Republican National Convention meets in St. Paul, Minn., this week, police are systematically targeting journalists. I was arrested with my two colleagues, "Democracy Now!" producers Sharif Abdel Kouddous and Nicole Salazar, while reporting on the first day of the RNC. I have been wrongly charged with a misdemeanor. My co-workers, who were simply reporting, may be charged with felony riot.

The Democratic and Republican national conventions have become very expensive and protracted acts of political theater, essentially four-day-long advertisements for the major presidential candidates. Outside the fences, they have become major gatherings for grass-roots movements -- for people to come, amidst the banners, bunting, flags and confetti, to express the rights enumerated in the Constitution's First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Behind all the patriotic hyperbole that accompanies the conventions, and the thousands of journalists and media workers who arrive to cover the staged events, there are serious violations of the basic right of freedom of the press. Here on the streets of St. Paul, the press is free to report on the official proceedings of the RNC, but not to report on the police violence and mass arrests directed at those who have come to petition their government, to protest.

It was Labor Day, and there was an anti-war march, with a huge turnout, with local families, students, veterans and people from around the country gathered to oppose the war. The protesters greatly outnumbered the Republican delegates.

There was a positive, festive feeling, coupled with a growing anxiety about the course that Hurricane Gustav was taking, and whether New Orleans would be devastated anew. Later in the day, there was a splinter march. The police -- clad in full body armor, with helmets, face shields, batons and canisters of pepper spray -- charged. They forced marchers, onlookers and working journalists into a nearby parking lot, then surrounded the people and began handcuffing them.

Nicole was videotaping. Her tape of her own violent arrest is chilling. Police in riot gear charged her, yelling, "Get down on your face." You hear her voice, clearly and repeatedly announcing "Press! Press! Where are we supposed to go?" She was trapped between parked cars. The camera drops to the pavement amidst Nicole's screams of pain. Her face was smashed into the pavement, and she was bleeding from the nose, with the heavy officer with a boot or knee on her back. Another officer was pulling on her leg. Sharif was thrown up against the wall and kicked in the chest, and he was bleeding from his arm.

I was at the Xcel Center on the convention floor, interviewing delegates. I had just made it to the Minnesota delegation when I got a call on my cell phone with news that Sharif and Nicole were being bloody arrested, in every sense. Filmmaker Rick Rowley of Big Noise Films and I raced on foot to the scene. Out of breath, we arrived at the parking lot. I went up to the line of riot police and asked to speak to a commanding officer, saying that they had arrested accredited journalists.

Within seconds, they grabbed me, pulled me behind the police line and forcibly twisted my arms behind my back and handcuffed me, the rigid plastic cuffs digging into my wrists. I saw Sharif, his arm bloody, his credentials hanging from his neck. I repeated we were accredited journalists, whereupon a Secret Service agent came over and ripped my convention credential from my neck. I was taken to the St. Paul police garage where cages were set up for protesters. I was charged with obstruction of a peace officer. Nicole and Sharif were taken to jail, facing riot charges.

The attack on and arrest of me and the "Democracy Now!" producers was not an isolated event. A video group called I-Witness Video was raided two days earlier. Another video documentary group, the Glass Bead Collective, was detained, with its computers and video cameras confiscated. On Wednesday, I-Witness Video was again raided, forced out of its office location. When I asked St. Paul Police Chief John Harrington how reporters are to operate in this atmosphere, he suggested, "By embedding reporters in our mobile field force."

On Monday night, hours after we were arrested, after much public outcry, Nicole, Sharif and I were released. That was our Labor Day. It's all in a day's work.

Amy Goodman is the host of "Democracy Now!," a daily international TV/radio news hour airing on more than 700 stations in North America.

© 2008 Truthdig All rights reserved.
View this story online at: http://www.alternet.org/story/97632/

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Amos
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 02:41 PM

Fucking Fascists.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus se
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 04:39 PM

Goodman certainly sounds like a bomb-throwing anarchist. Don't she?
Is there a corresponding story from the cops' viewpoint?

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 05:49 PM

It's about time that people from the 'press' got the info out. That's why I have little use for FOX or CNN. Ass kissers, both of them. And exactly where ARE the main-stream journalists with the news of this? They been bought and paid for or are they simply indentured servants now?

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 05:59 PM

Keith Olberman--'Bloggerman'--on MSNBC is pretty good about getting the less Bush-friendly news reported.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 06:15 PM

The protests served little purpose. Anti-war demonstrations may be useful in Washington, D. C., but not at the conventions where the parties are trying to carry out their purpose of formalizing their nominations of candidates.

Governor Tim Pawlenty praised the planning and response of the police chief and County sheriff.
"... when they saw violence or people who were putting property or other people at risk they needed to move in, and they did. They contained the situation, they managed it very well and in tense circumstances."

Some 19 journalists were detained, and 400 demonstrators were arrested on the last day of the convention. The permit for anti-war demonstration had expired, and the demonstrators had no excuse for their actions.

Based on report in Minneapolis Star Tribune, "Arrests Mark Last Anti-war March of Convention," Foley and Lohn, Sept. 5, 2008.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 06:21 PM

"... when they saw violence or people who were putting property or other people at risk they needed to move in, and they did. They contained the situation, they managed it very well and in tense circumstances."



How were the journalists doing that?

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 07:36 PM

Just stirring up the protesters and staging photo-ops, as they often do.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 07:49 PM

The journalists were doing their constitutionally protected job. If the fascists are going to try to silence legitimate journalistic work by using fabricating an exuse like "they instigate violence for photo ops", that is something that needs to be taken all the way to the Supreme Court.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 08:07 PM

Forty years ago in Chicago . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 08:30 PM

Another time. Another place. And most of it stupid.

Responsible journalists do not stir up demonstrators, which is what seems to have happened in Minneapolis. Good reporters also know when to clear out so that they do not give irrational people the impetus or opportunity to make headlines.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 12:17 AM

Jeri, thanks for the link. Olberman is SO good and right!

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 08:50 AM

The preemptive raids and detainments happened before any violence broke out, and they happened nowhere near the site of the violence that happened later on. So the excuse that they were detained because they were inciting violence is pretty absurd.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 02:26 PM

Star Tribune reporter Nick Coleman, noting that most war protesters were well-behaved, said "So it's too bad the spotlight was hijacked by small bands of Ninja-clad street punks who enjoy getting thumped."
.............
"I saw one protest photographer at Cedar and 7th Streets, snot and spit spewing from his face as he gasped for air and screamed about "fascists." His shirt was off displaying tattoos on his chest that said "Guerilla Warfare" and revolution.""

Street protests are self-defeating. Goons, neo-commies, self-annointed 'fighters for the people,' who have no understanding of either proper behavior or the words they trumpet- like 'fascist'- are always there. Their disruptive tactics erase any message that protests attempt to convey, and must be treated with firmly.
Anyone who has seen these eruptions knows that police cannot run a sort on who deserves arrest and who is a bystander, but must sweep them up, to be dealt with by the judicial system.

The news media exercised admirable restraint, and largely ignored the sideshow.
The conduct of business and the life of St. Paul-Minneapolis can now get back to normal.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: Peace
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 12:27 PM

And the possible misuse of the judicial system by police can be investigated just to ensure their hands are clean.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus seized
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 12:54 PM

As I said before, the people who were preemptively detained and their stuff confiscated, like the bus this thread is about (and there were many who were), were detained before (days before) any violence broke out, and they were nowhere near the sites where the violence eventually did break out when they were detained. So it is entirely impossible that they were detained for inciting that violence. It's all just lies to try to cover up the creeping fascism

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus se
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 03:25 PM

Preemption seems to be the Government's approach to a lot of things.

Subject: RE: BS: Police state in Minneapolis-protest bus se
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:20 AM

"Anyone who has seen these eruptions knows that police cannot run a sort on who deserves arrest and who is a bystander, but must sweep them up, to be dealt with by the judicial system."

"Kill them all, let God sort them out."

Anyone who supports these statements has had an easy pampered life.

And has never been on the receiving end of wrongful action by corrupt officials... since I was been present at an event which was (near enough to defamation) wrongly trumpeted as a 'riot' - when the confusion seen on the TV cameras was ENTIRELY due to the reporters, the Qld 'Secret Police' (Special Branch), the Police Provacteurs, the Pollies' hangers on, etc, as all the 'demonstrators' were over 100 meters away... I lived through the days of 'The Qld Police State' with 'Uncle Joh', when it was illegal for three or more people to walk together down any street in Qld, as that was deemed by Law to be 'an illegal Street March' (no legal limitations on this!)... :-)