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BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 01 Oct 09 - 02:32 PM I think they should continue to advocate for workers and disenfranchised voters. If they have too much on their plate, then they need to spend less time having to contend with the massively funded and organized smear campaign that is being waged against them so that disadvantaged people won't have anyone to advocate for them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Riginslinger Date: 01 Oct 09 - 02:25 PM It just seems to me like ACORN was trying to do too many different kinds of things and they didn't have enough professional staff to do it. I think they would be better served if they would get back to the business of trying to help poor people find housing instead of doing all of these other things that stretches them so thin. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 01 Oct 09 - 12:44 PM So let us know if they get any convictions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Sawzaw Date: 01 Oct 09 - 10:55 AM LA Times: Former ACORN worker details blackjack voter registration bonuses A former field director testifies about extra payments to Las Vegas canvassers for bringing in 21 new registration cards in a day. Reporting from Las Vegas - In the summer of 2008, with presidential contenders battling fiercely over the swing state of Nevada, Christopher Edwards was racing to register voters. As the field director of ACORN's Las Vegas office, he brainstormed a way to motivate meagerly paid canvassers: If they turned in 21 or more registration cards in a day, they were each given a $5 bonus. "Hey, it's Las Vegas," Edwards testified Tuesday. "It's blackjack." But Edwards' "blackjack bonuses," which he bragged about to other ACORN offices, broke the law, state prosecutors say. Nevada bars quotas or cash incentives in voter sign-up efforts: Officials fear they could lead to false registrations. On Tuesday, a judge began considering whether Edwards' former supervisor, Amy Busefink, and the Assn. of Community Organizations for Reform Now will stand trial on 13 low-level felony charges of compensation for registration of voters. The evidentiary hearing will resume this morning. Edwards, a former union organizer who once worked for former Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean, has pleaded guilty to two misdemeanor counts. He took the stand Tuesday as the prosecution's star witness. "No one in ACORN knew this was illegal," he told Justice of the Peace William D. Jansen. In recent weeks, ACORN, a longtime target of Republican ire, has been battered by secretly recorded videos from other states that appear to show ACORN staffers advising two conservative activists -- who were posing as a pimp and a prostitute -- on tax evasion, human smuggling and child prostitution. The IRS, Census Bureau and Bank of America have severed ties with ACORN, and Congress has voted to slash its federal funding. The controversies have heightened the attention paid to the Nevada case. Clare Crawford, ACORN's deputy political director, called the charges here "political grandstanding," though Nevada's secretary of state and attorney general are Democrats. Their investigation began in 2008, after Clark County officials complained that some registration forms issued to ACORN had come back fraudulent -- in one instance, someone had signed up much of the Dallas Cowboys' starting lineup. Edwards, who said he was under pressure to boost the number of voter registration forms collected, oversaw as many as eight political organizers and their teams of canvassers. If canvassers, who made $8 an hour, turned in fewer than 20 registration cards a day, their jobs were at risk. "I seen a lot of people getting laid off," testified Dwain Dennie, an ACORN canvasser who worked outside a welfare office. Edwards thought up the blackjack program as a response to canvassers who had falsified time cards or generally slacked off, he testified. It was an informal plan, announced on a huge office dry-erase board, but not in e-mails or memos -- a fact that drew some derision from Jansen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Sawzaw Date: 01 Oct 09 - 10:52 AM BofA rolls ACORN under da bus: NEW YORK (CNN): Bank of America pulls ACORN funding Troubled community organizing group ACORN suffered another setback on Monday, when Bank of America announced it is pulling its funding of ACORN Housing. In a statement, Bank of America said that is it "suspending current commitments to ACORN Housing and will not enter into any further agreements with ACORN or any of its affiliates" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Sawzaw Date: 01 Oct 09 - 10:37 AM Irs rolls ACORN under da bus: New York Times: On Wednesday, the Internal Revenue Service announced that it would no longer include Acorn in a groups approved to offer free tax preparation. "It is absolutely critical that taxpayers have trust in our Volunteer Income Tax Assistance program partners," said a statement from the agency. "In light of recent events, the I.R.S. has decided to terminate its relationship with Acorn." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Riginslinger Date: 30 Sep 09 - 05:13 PM Great! Those people shouldn't be in there anyway. Sometime when you have a lot of time on yours hands, I'll tell you about my theory of promoting and economic collapse in Afghanistan by legalizing opiates in the West. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 30 Sep 09 - 03:01 PM I think they're going to have to let a lot of people in prison on drug charges go free if they're going to have room for all of the people who knowingly employ illegal immigrants in this country. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Riginslinger Date: 30 Sep 09 - 01:22 PM Yes, absolutely! If they know they're illegal, of course. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 30 Sep 09 - 09:55 AM Along with all of the well off people who employ them as nannies and gardeners? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Riginslinger Date: 30 Sep 09 - 07:31 AM SEIU lets illegal aliens join the union. They ought to be thrown in jail for just that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 30 Sep 09 - 01:37 AM So now we know why the SEIU is being targeted by the corporatist smear machine. Both ACORN and SEIU worked on getting "living wage ordinances" passed in many cities around the country. Those bad, bad people, working to try to help hard working people get paid a living wage. Ohhhhhh, that just makes my blood boil! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#33080922 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Bill D Date: 29 Sep 09 - 03:38 PM So, you reply by asking ME to defend a spurious accusation? My...sorta proves something. "You mean like what the liberals did the last 6 years of the Bush administration??? Oh, that's right- if liberals do it, it is ok. It is only when conservatives do something that it is wrong... " --------------------------------------------------------------------- So, you reply by asking ME to defend a spurious accusation? I have practically BEGGED you, bruce, to get away from that line of ersatz 'reasoning'. ONE...that is NOT what liberals did to the Bushites. It was very different, both in style & substance. You really cannot tell the difference between documenting the lies & illegal stuff by Bush, Cheney, John Yoo and cronies...and the smears and idiocy of Limbaugh, Beck, various S. Carolina & Minnesota & Oklahoma congress folk, and uncounted Teabaggers? *tsk* TWO...it sounds as if you are, in fact, admitting that IS "the plan", and defending it with a trumped up, "Mommie...he hit me first!" line. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: GUEST,TIA Date: 29 Sep 09 - 12:48 PM And there is the perpetual argument of last resort - "I'm rubber you're glue, nyah, nyah." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: beardedbruce Date: 29 Sep 09 - 12:37 PM "So... the plan is to make 'reports' and accusations and especially insinuations so numerous...whether they have any real substance or not... that the 'supporters' can get little done except replying and clarifying? " You mean like what the liberals did the last 6 years of the Bush administration??? Oh, that's right- if liberals do it, it is ok. It is only when conservatives do something that it is wrong... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Bill D Date: 29 Sep 09 - 12:23 PM ". If the reports were false, one might think the supporters would actually try to prove the FACTS, rather than attack the reporters." So... the plan is to make 'reports' and accusations and especially insinuations so numerous...whether they have any real substance or not... that the 'supporters' can get little done except replying and clarifying? It makes little difference what is picked as a topic; just keep saying it, no matter WHAT replies and counters are offered. "Obama won't provide his birth certificate!" "But he has...it is visible online!" "Why WON'T he provide his birth certificate?" "He did...and there are newspaper records from that date." "We see they have faked BOTH his birth certificate AND newspaper records!" "No they didn't...'birthers' have provided 2 or 3 fake birth certificates from Kenya." "What an elaborate scheme to avoid providing his birth certificate!" ...... and so it goes, on 20 different topics....ACORN, health care, economy..... It doesn't have to make sense, it just has to make lot of noise & headlines and create an 'aura' of distrust. We shall see how it plays out next year......some say Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot with this 'strategy'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 29 Sep 09 - 11:37 AM ACORN did not hire them specifically for the purpose of rigging the election. If they had, there would have been actual fraudulent votes cast by people who were registered fraudulently instead of what actually happened, which was that ACORN prevented any of those registrations resulting in a fraudulent vote by flagging them and turning them in to the authorities. The person making these really ridiculous accusations is insulting their own intelligence by making them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Riginslinger Date: 29 Sep 09 - 11:21 AM But isn't! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Greg F. Date: 29 Sep 09 - 11:19 AM Isn't necesaarily 'simple opinion'. Could simply be bullshit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: GUEST,TIA Date: 29 Sep 09 - 11:03 AM If it is "news", let's have the sourcing. Otherwise it is a simple opinion. If it is founded, let's have the documentation. If you want so badly to discuss facts, please present them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Riginslinger Date: 29 Sep 09 - 10:33 AM Yes, it's my opinion, but not unfounded. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: beardedbruce Date: 29 Sep 09 - 10:33 AM Typical attack on the bearer of news someone does not want to believe. If the reports were false, one might think the supporters would actually try to prove the FACTS, rather than attack the reporters. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: GUEST,TIA Date: 29 Sep 09 - 10:27 AM Exactly. So that is your personal, unfounded accusation. I thought so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Riginslinger Date: 29 Sep 09 - 10:18 AM TIA - You know they're not going to admit it, so there is no documentation, but it's kind of weird how you keep bringing Fox News into things. Some people are capable of thinking for themselves. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: GUEST,TIA Date: 29 Sep 09 - 09:36 AM "ACORN hired those people for the specific purpose of trying to rig the election." Documentation please. Until then, you are simply parroting FOX News ranting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Riginslinger Date: 29 Sep 09 - 07:50 AM ACORN hired those people for the specific purpose of trying to rig the election. The people who hired the people should be in jail. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 29 Sep 09 - 01:21 AM More on the Bush Justice Department malfeasance around the subject of ACORN, and the politicising of the Justice Department under Bush in order to use ACORN as a wedge issue in the '08 election... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#33064799 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Bill D Date: 28 Sep 09 - 10:24 PM Oh yeah... now Mike Huckabee is saying that the United Nations is the "international version of ACORN" and should have jackhammers taken to it... and I thought he was one of the few Republicans who were taking it easy and not resorting to off-the-wall idiocy. (gotta get the exact quotes) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Bill D Date: 28 Sep 09 - 10:20 PM Riggo...sometimes you just go off the deep end with crazy comments. "If I hire somebody to murder my wife, the police arrest and prosecute the assassin. But they also arrest and prosecute me for hiring the the killer in the first place." Yeah...*IF* I hire him to kill my wife. ACORN never 'perpetrated' that stupid behavior by a few employees. In fact, if FOX and those 2 silly actors hadn't gone fishing, there would have been no story. The only way I read all this is that you WANT to see ACORN smeared and will buy into any asinine set of assertions that pretend to muddy them. That puts you right out there with birthers and deathers and all the other kooky fools who can't do anything BUT throw mud these days. (gee---do I sound pissed off? Me...ol' voice of reason Bill? .......yeah, I guess so...) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 28 Sep 09 - 10:03 PM That's not the way it works with the kind of crime that was committed in this case. The crime that was committed was that the employees attempted to swindle their employers by doing something other than registering people while they were getting paid to actually register people. That's the same crime as, for instance, if I took money from an employer to conduct a survey and instead of actually conducting the survey, I made up the information and submitted it to my employer. In both cases, it is the employer who is the victim. That's why ACORN management is not being prosecuted for the crime of falsifying voter registrations. If ACORN was considered responsible for this behavior by the legal system, they would be prosecuted for it. They are not being prosecuted for it, and they will not be prosecuted for it, because they did everything they were required to do under the law. They were responsible for making sure that their screening system detected the falsified registrations, which it did do, and they were to flag the falsified registrations and turn them over to the authorities. They did all of this, exactly the way they were required to do by law. So we will not see ACORN prosecuted for the actions of their employees, because it was the employees who broke the law, and not ACORN management. That's just the facts. People can continue to lie about it and ignore these facts if they want, but that won't make the lies any more true. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Riginslinger Date: 28 Sep 09 - 09:51 PM Here's the way the courts see it. If I hire somebody to murder my wife, the police arrest and prosecute the assassin. But they also arrest and prosecute me for hiring the the killer in the first place. In fact, I'll probably do more time than he will. ACORN is more guilty that their employees. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 28 Sep 09 - 09:20 PM So every organization or company that is swindled by its employees is guilty of and responsible for their crimes? That's not the way the courts see it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Greg F. Date: 28 Sep 09 - 09:14 PM I see- like all the crooks that worked for the Bush Administration. I guess Georgie's guilty of War Crimes after all, then, eh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Riginslinger Date: 28 Sep 09 - 09:04 PM They worked for ACORN. ACORN was responsible for their actions. ACORN hired them. ACORN was the perpetrator. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 28 Sep 09 - 08:57 PM The crooks who were making up the false registrations were defrauding their employer, ACORN. ACORN was the victim in that crime, not the perpetrator of it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Riginslinger Date: 28 Sep 09 - 07:10 PM Yes, it does seem to be the entire group. All of those crooks who were making up the false voter registrations and now this. It looks like "crime" is what they teach there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Bill D Date: 28 Sep 09 - 05:10 PM No..it does NOT 'seem to be the entire group'. It only seems that way to those who Gerrymander both their sources and their thought processes! Th Bank of America has no better 'evidence' than anyone else....like those conservative governors who are proclaiming they are 'cutting off funding' which ACORN was not receiving anyway. They are just taking what seems to them a safe public stance. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Riginslinger Date: 28 Sep 09 - 05:00 PM In this case, it seems to be the entire group. Now we read where the Bank of America is trying to sever relationships with ACORN. These guys are the essence of sleaze. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Bill D Date: 28 Sep 09 - 04:47 PM TIA's link is quite instructive, as are Carol C's comments on what has actually happened. As to ACORN not being 'non-partisan'...*sigh*... it is perfectly possible to be non-partisan and still have Republican/conservative groups concerned that ACORN's activities in getting out minority voters and helping register folks who had not been voting was NOT in their (Republican) interest! Of course what ACORN does is likely to help Democratic interests more than Republicans...at least as long as Republicans are more concerned about 'business' than about fairness and voting rights for ALL demographic groups. When 'winning at all cost' becomes your Mantra, some pretty sleazy tactics suddenly seem 'reasonable' If you look hard enough at ANY group, you can find individuals whose behavior is questionable. That is hardly evidence that such behavior is either group policy or condoned by management. Why is this so hard to grasp? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: pdq Date: 28 Sep 09 - 04:47 PM ...from the article just mentioned: "One needn't be a mathematician to imagine what a national health care option might mean to a union in search of new dues-paying recruits. SEIU, which has promised "to fight tooth and nail" for a public option, is demonstrably persuasive. In Illinois, former Gov. Blagojevich (thank you for your patience) helped position the SEIU so that it could unionize health care workers when he signed an executive order allowing collective bargaining. SEIU showed its appreciation in advance by becoming Blagojevich's largest contributor, handing over $1.8 million for his two gubernatorial campaigns. Now that's community organization." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Riginslinger Date: 28 Sep 09 - 04:24 PM Here are some more charges that are now being levelled at ACORN! http://www.daytondailynews.com/opinion/columnists/kathleen-parker-acorn-service-union-are-hand-and-glove-317622.html?cxtype=ynews_rss |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: GUEST,TIA Date: 28 Sep 09 - 10:29 AM Me above...sorry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: GUEST Date: 28 Sep 09 - 10:29 AM The TRUTH about ACORN is here:. Betcha FOX is not mentioning the link between ACORN and Prosecutor-Gate. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Riginslinger Date: 27 Sep 09 - 12:39 PM "What?!?!?!?.... Fox not representing the corporate interests???" No, Bobert, I didn't say Fox didn't represent corporate interests, they like all the others, are selling things. They are just selling different things, or are selling them to different people. That's why their point of view is slightly different. But the one subject they all seem to agree on is Israel -- Fox, MSNBC, all of them. Once you start trying to figure out why that is, you might be on to something. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 27 Sep 09 - 12:09 PM That story is from almost a week ago. It's not breaking news. That happened when everyone else was jumping without looking last week. I won't be surprised if the governor of (my beloved home state of) Rhode Island doesn't bother to put out any press releases if the investigation doesn't turn up anything wrong. Interestingly, a lot of the people who are freezing funding to ACORN never provided any funding to begin with, including the bill onto which the Congress tacked the "Defund Acorn" amendment. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: pdq Date: 27 Sep 09 - 10:52 AM Gov. Carcieri orders RI ACORN probeWants immediate halt of state funding to group Updated: Friday, 18 Sep 2009, 5:48 PM EDT Published : Friday, 18 Sep 2009, 5:47 PM EDT Nancy Krause PROVIDENCE, R.I. (WPRI) - Gov. Donald Carcieri has ordered all state departments and agencies to freeze any payments being made directly to the Rhode Island chapter of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) or indirectly to any of its affiliates. The governor's order comes as ACORN is facing national scrutiny. Hidden-camera video shot at four separate ACORN offices across the country show ACORN employees giving a fake pimp and prostitute advice how to buy a home for their illegal sex business and how lie on tax forms to account for the woman's income. The fake pimp and prostitute even told one of the workers they were planning to bring in 12 underage girls from El Salvador to work in the home. "It is unconscionable for a single dime of taxpayer money be spent to support an organization that is engaged in this type of activity," said Governor Carcieri. "I am ordering a review of each state department, agency, and quasi-public agency to determine if ACORN is benefitting from taxpayer dollars." Carcieri is not alone. Thursday, the U.S. House of Representatives voted to deny all federal funding for ACORN nationally. The U.S. Senate approved a similar resolution earlier in the week. Rhode Island's Congressional delegation, with the exception of Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse , voted in favor of freezing ACORN funds. ACORN has ordered all of its local branches, including the one in Providence , to close for a month while it conducts an internal investigation into the matter. Four ACORN employees involved in the hidden-camera investigation have been fired. In addition to freezing funding, Gov. Carcieri has asked the state Board of Elections to review the legal status of the ACORN-RI political action committee. "If ACORN-RI has used either federal or state taxpayer dollars to support its political agenda, this activity must stop, and the Board of Elections must take appropriate legal actions against the organization." [well, if ACORN is "non-partisan", so was SNCC, SDS, the Black Panthers and the Weather Underground] |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Bobert Date: 27 Sep 09 - 09:11 AM What?!?!?!?.... Fox not representing the corporate interests??? Beam me up, there are no sane people left here, Scotty... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 27 Sep 09 - 08:46 AM That's true, they all propagandize, and all of the networks have been promoting the same lies about ACORN as FOX has. But FOX has been driving this particular set of lies, and therein lies the difference for the purpose of this discussion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Riginslinger Date: 27 Sep 09 - 07:27 AM Actually, what you had before Fox news was a propaganda machine run by corporations to get people to do the many dumb things they were told to do. Now, with Fox, you have another view. Some folks just liked the monopoly better. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 26 Sep 09 - 06:29 PM Which charge, the one about FOX news lying and propagandizing, or the one about people still supporting that organization? If it's the first, I've already provided credible documentation right here in this thread, and I didn't use any "leftist blogs". If it's the second, I have no evidence of that whatever. Perhaps I'm wrong, and people no longer support FOX. |
