BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 05:55 PM

Apparently nothing Fox News has said has proven to be actionable, or it seems like somebody would be going after them.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 04:07 PM

There's already been plenty of due process for FOX. There's all kinds of studies showing that a huge percentage of the things FOX says are lies. That's very easily documentable, and it has been documented.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 02:13 PM

CarolC,

"Better to wait until there's been some kind of due process before making a judgment."


So you will wait until there is some due process before your statements about Fox et al???

Or do you have two sets of rules, one for those you syupport, and a different set for those you differ with?

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 01:22 PM

Where is the reality in going after Fox News? They don't take federal money, they aren't hiding who they are and what they stand for, so what would one use to launch an attack?

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 12:22 PM

Maybe. And then again, maybe not.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 09:32 AM

Well then just go ahead and stand idly by while the ship is going down. In the end, when the dust has settled, ACORN and anyone still supporting or at least associated with will have lost any and all credibility that they had.

And about congress....even a dog knows when not to fight...

...and for me? ....That's giving THIS congress way too much credit


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 01:39 AM

We know better than to trust liars. Better to wait until there's been some kind of due process before making a judgment. I know that's difficult for people with no ethics to understand, but it is the American way.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 01:08 AM

What???

Corruption in the liberal ranks???

Why is everyone running so fast to defend when what you need to be doing is following congress and washing your hands of the whole foul mess?

At least congress knows when it's time to mop up the floor....


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 11:43 PM

He can still do a ton of damage by setting a precedent. That would be bad for the future. So for the sake of the future, we should make sure nobody gets away with anything criminal.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 10:18 PM

Except Cheney is out of office and can't do any more damage. It seems to me it would be more effective to look to the future.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Peace
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 09:08 PM

Hear, hear.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 09:07 PM

LOL

We need to finish investigating the Cheney administration before we start pouring taxpayer resources into investigating Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Peace
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 08:11 PM

Yeah. Ten to one s/he'll have a line of lobbyists a mile long waiting to speak and see the error of her or his ways.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 08:09 PM

All I know is that Barack Obama worked as a lawyer for ACORN/Project Vote for 7 months and he surely didn't settle for $8 per year. Not even $8 per hour. Can we guess it was closer to $200 per hour.

This administration has a conflict of interest "big time" and the insevtigator must be an outsider to avoid the obvious witewash.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Peace
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 07:56 PM

"The numbers are bogus. We need a special investigator appointed pronto."

I loved seeing that. It's a clear indication that people don't think they'll receive fairness from run-of-the-mill investigators. The investigators have to be special. (Not yankin' yer chain, pdq. I have thought that for years. I think people of varying degrees of politicaltudinousness don't trust their governments to do what's right as opposed to what's expedient.)

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 07:52 PM

Well, pdq, a special investigator would probably satisy you concerns and Peace's concerns as well.

                What do you think Congress should do about funding in the meantime?

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 07:49 PM

"ACORN...is the largest grassroots community organization in the United States, comprised of over 450,000 member families..." ~ their press release

If we auuume that means that ACORN has 450,000 individual working for it, well, let's "do the math".

ACORN is said to have received $54 million federal (taxpayer) dollars since 1994. Divide among 450,000 workers, that is just $8 dollars per worker per year!.

Again, one investigative reporter claims that over 8 billion in federal money is allotted to the 300 groups afilliated with ACORN. That is just in next years budget.

The numbers are bogus. We need a special investigator appointed pronto.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Peace
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 07:47 PM

I hope the "Truth" about ACORN is spread. Followed by the truth about FOX and the people behind this 'entrapment' procedure.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 07:42 PM

Seems like if ACORN was as guilty as people are saying, they wouldn't be the ones wanting to go to court. If those ACORN workers did what they are accused of doing, they should be prosecuted. Maybe nobody else wants to go to court because they don't have a leg to stand on.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 07:21 PM

The only people talking about going to court is ACORN itself. I think the other folks have done all they intend on doing with it.   .

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 05:10 PM

Ok, I watched it again. I don't see that video being able to hold up in a court of law. There's tons of edits, and we never actually see the "pimp" or the "prostitute" say what we are hearing. There's no way to know if they actually said those things or if they were overdubbed. Neither of the ACORN employees ever use the words "pimp" or "prostitute" except for one time where you can barely here it, and that one sounds like it could have been overdubbed.

I am definitely in favor of an investigation. But I don't think it's right to automatically accept the word of known liars (FOX News) before an investigation is conducted.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 03:35 PM

Is there a point to that last post?

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 03:32 PM

...from a press release by ACORN:

"ACORN (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now) is the largest grassroots community organization in the United States, comprised of over 450,000 member families organized into 1000+ neighborhood chapters in over 100 cities across the country. The mission of ACORN is to empower low and moderate-income people..."

"The majority of ACORN registrants are low-income, about 75% are African-American, 25% are Latino and 50% are under 30 years old."

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 03:10 PM

However, that one can be flipped. It's interesting to see, considering how may times FOX News has been caught lying and propagandizing, how many people still support that organization.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 03:08 PM

If the tapes were doctored, the ACORN people still would have a good reason to fire the employees in question, as I said before, because the employees were giving advice on how to falsify information. What they are saying was doctored is the claim that the workers were told that the man and woman were a prostitute and pimp and that they were going to start a child sex ring. I will have to go back and watch the video again to see what I think of that.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: DougR
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 03:01 PM

It will be interesting to see, Carol, if you detect the same odor after the 2010 congressional elections.

It's interesting to see how many folks, even after viewing the video, which has been run numerous times still support ACORN. (Obviously the video was doctored. Right.) If, however, they were doctored, why did ACORN fire the employees that appeared on them? Surely and organization at upright at ACORN would have supported them, not fired them.

Anyone that does not fear that their television screen will be permanently tainted by tuning in to Fox News tomorrow can see the president of ACORN interviewed on that network by Chris Wallace.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 12:42 PM

LOL

I just realized why the Republicans have kicked their efforts against ACORN into high gear. They've narrowed down their voter base so much through pandering to their lunatic fringe that they will have to disenfranchise a huge percentage of voters in order to get any of their people elected in 2010. LOL... I think I smell desperation.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 12:20 PM

The fraudulent registrations never made it past ACORN's screening process. They flagged all of the questionable registrations and handed them over to the authorities as they were required to do by law. There was never any danger that the fraudulent registrations would result in someone voting illegally, and therefore there was never any assault on anyone's right to vote. That's just Republican smear mongering, and a part of the pattern of Republican efforts to disenfranchise large numbers of voters, which is itself a form of election fraud.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 11:54 AM

On Weekend Edition Scott Simon and Juan Williams discussed this event. Williams repeated the statement that those folks caught on film helping criminals were "indefensible." But the Philadelphia workers who called the police on the pair weren't added to the smear, and the many other offices that didn't bite weren't reported.

link.

Follow the money. The sponsorship of the "investigation" must be examined. "These people are just setting folks up and trying to embarrass them for political reasons." You got that right, Juan.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 11:47 AM

The organization mobilized a get-out-the-vote effort to support Obama's presidential bid last year, but it was tainted when nearly a third of the 1.3 million voters the group registered were rejected.

Last week, authorities in Miami announced the arrests of 11 former registration canvassers on allegations that they had submitted nearly 200 falsified forms.


Sawzaw, when you post this kind of nonsense you should at least post a citation to the yellow journalism where you found it.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 11:46 AM

"...ACORN itself turned over to authorities any employees who were engaging in illegal practices." ~ Carol C

Oh, crap. Every place that ACORN had a major presence, the same exact fraud occurred.

Clark County (Las Vegas), Nevada is still trying to figure out what happened in last year's election. Estimates that about half of all the voter submissions by ACORN were blatant fraud. Others are suspect but are harder to prove. Illegal aliens are a major part of this organized, systematic assault on our right to vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 11:31 AM

It should be pointed out, again, that ACORN itself turned over to authorities any employees who were engaging in illegal practices.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 11:23 AM

"Guess which left-wing group is at the center of the worst case of voter-registration fraud in Washington state history? Yep, you guessed it: ACORN. The same ACORN tied to massive voter fraud in Missouri. And Ohio. And 12 other states.

Here's the Washington state scoop via Seattle's KOMO TV: "King County prosecutors filed felony charges Thursday against seven people in what a top official described as the worst case of voter-registration fraud in state history, while the organization they worked for agreed to keep a better eye on its employees and pay $25,000 to defray costs of the investigation. The seven submitted about 1,800 registration cards last fall on behalf of the liberal Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN, which had hired them at $8 an hour to sign people up to vote, according to charging documents filed in Superior Court."

Prosecutors didn't sugercoat the fraud: "This was an act of vandalism upon the voter rolls of King County," said Dan Satterberg, the interim King County prosecutor. But officials tried to give ACORN some benefit of the doubt, noting that the defendants were motivated by financial gain rather than intentions of sabotaging the election.

However, in interviews with King County Sheriff's Detective Chris Johnson, several of the defendants – while freely admitting they forged the forms – insisted that they had been told ACORN would shut down their office in Tacoma if they didn't improve their numbers, Johnson wrote in a probable cause statement.

One, Ryan Olson, said another worker in the office told him "do what you have to do" to turn in more cards.

ACORN's oversight of the workers was virtually nonexistent – to the extent that civil charges could have been warranted, Satterberg said.

In a settlement agreement announced Thursday, ACORN, which cooperated with the investigation, agreed to pay $25,000 and to make improvements in its management, training and oversight of suspect voter registrations throughout the state."

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 11:10 AM

White House press secretary Robert Gibbs called the conduct of some of the organization's employees "indefensible."

"The administration takes accountability extremely seriously," he said. The U.S. Census Bureau's decision to sever ties to the group reflects that, he added, with their view that the group "could not meet the bureau's goal of achieving a fair and accurate count in 2010."

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 11:04 AM

The organization mobilized a get-out-the-vote effort to support Obama's presidential bid last year, but it was tainted when nearly a third of the 1.3 million voters the group registered were rejected.

Last week, authorities in Miami announced the arrests of 11 former registration canvassers on allegations that they had submitted nearly 200 falsified forms.

A preliminary hearing is scheduled for this month in Nevada, where state prosecutors have accused ACORN and two former top officials of using an illegal incentive system to motivate people registering voters just before the 2008 presidential election.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: heric
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 10:52 AM

Ouch. I would think that receipt of federal funds is a privilege not a right, absent discrimination, so that they could refuse to allocate funds and even rescind authorization. But to revoke any right to apply for funding for all time does seem hysterical and unprofessional. You'd think these folk would know their jobs better.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 02:15 AM

Apparently the House has not yet defunded ACORN. The bill it is attached to hasn't been passed yet, and the amendment has still has to make it through the conference committee. And there is a rather big problem with the amendment. It's unconstitutional...


WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, Congressman Jerrold Nadler (D-NY), Chair of the Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights and Civil Liberties, denounced a Republican Amendment adopted by the House of Representatives to deny all federal funds to ACORN as blatantly unconstitutional and a threat to unpopular organizations everywhere. The Republican initiative, entitled the Defund ACORN Act, singles out a specific organization by name for exclusion from participating in any federal program, in direct violation of the Constitution's prohibition against Bills of Attainder.

"Today's Republican Amendment is in blatant violation of the Constitution's prohibition against Bills of Attainder," said Nadler. "Congress must not be in the business of punishing individual organizations or people without trial, and that's what this Amendment does. Whatever one may think of an organization, the Constitution's clear ban on Bills of Attainder is there for the protection of all of our liberties."

The Supreme Court, in decisions dating back to the Civil War era, has held that the Constitution prohibits all legislative acts, "no matter what their form, that apply either to named individuals or to easily ascertainable members of a group in such a way as to inflict punishment on them without a judicial trial…." During the McCarthy era, for example, Congress enacted legislation prohibiting the use of funds to pay the salaries of three federal employees who Congress deemed subversive. The Supreme Court ruled this legislation unconstitutional as a Bill of Attainder.

This Amendment, in addition to being clearly unconstitutional, sets a dangerous precedent of Congress punishing politically disfavored groups without any due process.

As Chair of the Judiciary Subcommittee charged with defending the Constitution, Nadler spoke out on the House floor against the Republican Amendment, delivering the following statement:

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A little while ago, the House passed an amendment to the bill that we were considering that says no contract or federal funds may ever go to ACORN, a named organization, or to any individual or organization affiliated with ACORN. Unfortunately, this was done in the spirit of the moment and nobody had the opportunity to point out that this is a flat violation of the Constitution, constituting a Bill of Attainder. The Constitution says that Congress shall never pass a Bill of Attainder. Bills of Attainder, no matter what their form, apply either to a named individual or to easily ascertainable members of a group, to inflict punishment. That's exactly what this amendment does.

"It may be that ACORN is guilty of various infractions, and, if so, it ought to be vetted, or maybe sanctioned, by the appropriate administrative agency or by the judiciary. Congress must not be in the business of punishing individual organizations or people without trial.

"That's what this Amendment did. It is flatly prohibited by the Constitution, and once we ignore the Constitution we ignore constitutional principles. Whatever one may think of the subject matter or the organization, the Constitution and the ban on Bills of Attainder are there for the protection of all of our liberties. It is unfortunate that we passed this, and I hope it is removed in the conference committee."

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ny08_nadler/Acorn091709.html

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 12:45 AM

I watched/heard it when the story first broke, but didn't pay enough attention to notice if it had been edited. All of the articles I read about it while it was first breaking on that first day (in the mainstream press) said that the tape had been doctored and edited, and I didn't bother to go back and watch it again to make sure. Considering all of the lies that FOX News has been telling about ACORN for years, I consider it perfectly reasonable expect them to be lying now. But I will go back and watch it again.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: heric
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 12:33 AM

LMFAO!! I just came to this issue today.

Have you watched the Baltimore videos? It doesn't MATTER what anyone else said.

And ACORN brass is permitting ACORN legal to threaten lawsuits for not obtaining permission to record them counseling crime! There's your "officials." OMG

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 06:33 PM

And then stating that the girls would be underaged enraged a whole different set of people, probably a lot of women.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 06:03 PM

What's interesting is the way the journalists set this up. For instance, it doesn't really bother me that somebody proposes to run a prostitution ring, but it really bothers me that they would bring illegal aliens in from Honduras to do it.

            They insult the sensiblities of a much larger group of people that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 03:53 PM

Oh, definitely. More questions should definitely have been asked, and LOTS more things investigated. No-one will get any disagreement from me on that point. Fortunately, Attorney General Holder is starting to correct this oversight.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 03:24 PM

"...people shouldn't be drawing conclusions before the questions are even asked, much less answered..." CarolC

How glib.

Perhaps the same standards should have been used for the last ten years concerning the false accusations made against a host of non-Democrats?

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 03:15 PM

I never said they should be immune from questions. But people shouldn't be drawing conclusions before the questions are even asked, much less answered.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 03:06 PM

Just because they're left-leaning doesn't make them immune from questions, either.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 01:22 PM

Just because they're left-leaning doesn't make them questionable.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 12:06 PM

Some investigative reporters are suggesting that ACORN is the umbrella organization for about 300 Left-leaning groups and are (were) in line for over 8 billion dollars in next year's budget (starting 1 OCT this year).

The hidden inter-related control of so many qustional groups would make Meyer Lansky proud.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 11:45 AM

At long last, the mainstream media is finally getting around to the issue of recognizing the many mortgages that were issued to illegal immigrants. It turns out that ACORN was in the middle of that too.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: DougR
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 01:02 AM

Based on recent reports, I would say, Alice, that the "truth" about ACORN has finally been spread.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Sep 09 - 10:54 PM

I wonder how many ACORN representatives showed these folks the door before they found a few bad apples? I'm coming into the conversation late, but it's clear that the GOP is working now to try to minimize Obama's grass roots support early to hamper him at re-election time.

SRS