BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 11:14 PM

Duck!!

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 12:03 AM

Uh-Uh..He discarded the wild Duck..I think he has a goose up his sleeve!

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 12:43 AM

I stop paying any attention after this statement;
"when it is in fact 'somewhat deviant'.."

Asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 01:16 AM

Liar!

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 03:23 AM

Well, the reason I got so involved in this thread, is not homosexuality v heterosexuality, which as Little hawk has pointed out are facts of life....no discussion required there!

What I find really interesting is the "rights issue" and the current "liberal" view that everyone is entitled to the same "human rights".

Some here say that legality is the key, but I would remind everyone that laws are made by politicians, often in their interests rather than the interests of society.I have seen many laws reversed as it has become apparent that they were ill conceived....drug control legislation being an obvious example.

Many of what the "liberals" call basic human rights are refused to those in society, who although not criminals engage in behaviour which is dangerous or destructive....example... hard drug addicts.
"Basic human rights" are also witheld from people with psychiatric problems, they also are not criminals.

The statistics state that the practice of homosexuality is in general very destructive....much lower life expectancy, the still unexplained link to Aids/Hiv and high number of psychiatric conditions.

Given these statistics, what makes those who practice homosexuality more deserving of "rights" than the deprived members of the other catagories quoted?

I resent the implication by many here (including some friends) that I am an unthinking bigot.
My responce would be that most of the "liberals" are unthinking fools!

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 05:46 AM

"My responce would be that most of the "liberals" are unthinking fools!"

So the fact that you object to being stereotyped entitles you to stereotype one half of the population as unthinking fools, and a somewhat smaller group as being akin to drug addicts, and the mentally ill?

Nice to know that we are dealing with such a model of balanced impartiality.

It's very simple!!   Does the Constitution of the United States mean anything or not.

If the answer to that is YES, then gays ARE discriminated against, and the removal of such discrimination cannot be seen as making special concessions.

If the answer is NO, then what is your so-called democracy worth?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 01:04 PM

From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 05:46 AM
It's very simple!!   Does the Constitution of the United States mean anything or not.
If the answer is NO, then what is your so-called democracy worth?

Which chosen amendments are you talking about? The second??...Protecting our borders?? Limitations on the executive branch??...LIFE, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?? Habeus Corpus??...Limiting the Federal government's powers???...Yes Don, Does the Constitution mean anything...or not???
,Interesting you ask..'...then what is YOUR so-called democracy worth? Isn't it 'yours' too??...or do you read from a different ideology??
Do you obey ALL the laws, equally??..or pick and choose the 'convenient' ones???..then start pointing fingers?..(Better throw away your stash!)
So Ake's assertion may be truer than you allude to.
By the way, a 'straight' beats two jacks, and two queens, goose of hearts high!

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 04:11 PM

Many of what the "liberals" call basic human rights are refused to those in society, who although not criminals engage in behaviour which is dangerous or destructive....example... hard drug addicts.

Hard drugs are illegal Ake, not the best example.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 04:48 PM

Fact check:

Aids/HIV is a mainly a sexually transmitted disease, although it can be transmitted other ways as well. It is not limited to homosexual relations. As many have learned the hard way, the virus is also transmitted by heterosexual intercourse.

I think your stats are a bit off, GfS.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 05:26 PM

An update on the situation here in Iowa. It is still not a topic of discussion in the workaday world. There have been letters to the editor and a couple of protests at the statehouse but nothing earth shattering.

The Republicans in the Legislature tried to force a ballot initiative for next fall but they were blocked. The Dems hold a majority in both houses and insisted on following the rules. The Rebups cried foul but would have done the same thing if the shoe were on the other foot. The Repubs were trying an end run around the rules and failed. Doesn't mean the issue is settled once and for all, just means it will play out the way the law is written.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 06:06 PM

"I think your stats are a bit off, GfS."--Don

I didn't post any stats.....just common sense. I think you addressed the wrong post.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 06:46 PM

""Which chosen amendments are you talking about? The second??...Protecting our borders?? Limitations on the executive branch??...LIFE, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?? Habeus Corpus??...Limiting the Federal government's powers???...Yes Don, Does the Constitution mean anything...or not???""

No, you insufferable ass, as you well know from reading my posts (assuming you CAN read with comprehension), the bit about all being equal under the LAW.

A simple answer will suffice.......Can you manage YES, or NO?

Our democracy differs somewhat from the one YOU have developed from it.

We don't have a wrtten constitution, and as a rule we don't find we need one, but we DO seem to be rather better at being tolerant, and certainly streets ahead in the way we treat our poorest and most vulnerable citizens.

Perhaps when you grew up and flew the nest, you should have retained some of the finer aspects of the real democracy you left behind.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 07:04 PM

I was going to ask you.'What the fuck are you talking about?'...but never mind...your rant makes it obvious, that even you don't know!

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 07:20 PM

Stats schmatz. Your "common sense" is a bit off.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 08:03 PM

KB...Although the use of hard drugs is illegal, addicts in the UK are legally treated with a herion substitute (methadone).

They are still refused the "basic human rights" offered to homosexuals.
Don Firth...as you no doubt know. Although the virus can be transmitted by hetero and homosexual sex, it has always been first diagnosed in the homosexual community in every country.
It also affects more homosexuals in the community in real percentage terms.
This has never been satisfactorally explained.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 08:34 PM

Here, Don, and Don....this is from another thread, running concurrently:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI&feature=player_embedded

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 08:42 PM

That's quite good, GfS. I suggest that you watch it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 09:22 PM

There you go again....(its called 'deflection')

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 10:17 PM

It's like boxing the draperies.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage
From: Amos
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 10:19 PM

OBviously the only solution is for the gay and lesbian and transsexual community to start a nation-wide church -- the Holy Order of Transcendent Genderosity or some such--- s that they can be sheltered from this kind of bigotry.


;>)


A

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 11:41 PM

Minored in Philosphy in college, GfS, with several classes in formal Logic. The thing is, I do have an open mind. But it's not so open that my brain has dropped out.

####

One thing that no one seems to have touched on here (especially not those who are opposed to same-sex marriage) is that SSM would encourage permanent and stable relationships, thereby reducing promiscuity, which, in turn, would cut down on the spread of AIDS/HIV.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 11:43 PM

..and the road to eternal spirituality, is to have your dick stuck in some guy's poop!

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 12:41 AM

God knows, I've never understood it. And I don't understand why a man would want to do that to a woman either. But there's no explaining people's tastes when it comes to that, or anything else either...

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 01:13 AM

Yeah, Little Hawk, I'm with you on that one. But I don't see how what other people do in the privacy of their own bedroom affects me in any way whatsoever.

And I keep asking--without getting an answer--if Steve and Paul are legally married, how is that detrimental to Barbara's and my marriage? How can that affect our marriage in any way at all?

I can't see it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 01:24 AM

Because they've legally contracted, their properties, to keep their word. I wouldn't call it 'marriage'...but a contract is a contract.

Little Hawk, Because its warm and mooshy! Some people like it so much, that they'll put up all they own, in a contract to only be warm and mooshy, for each other. Besides, it smells so romantic to each other, so much, it gets them hot!

You know how you can tell if a homosexual has been in your house, while you've been away??
You open the refrigerator door, and the rump roast farts.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 01:41 AM

I've never felt that it affected me in any way either, Don. Not any more than someone else's watching of Nascar or the Roller Derby affects me. That's why I don't worry about it. That's why, to me, it's a non-issue...from either point of view. I'm not for it. I'm not against it. I simply don't care. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 02:58 AM

Seems quite clear to me Little Hawk.
Homosexual marriage is simply another milestone on the road to the normalisation and public acceptance of what seems to be a very dangerous and destructive lifestyle.
It also effects the lives of ordinary people who believe in god and traditional marriage.Rightly or wrongly, they feel marriage to be diminished by what they see as the ridiculous proposal of male/male relationship as "marriage". Their long held beliefs have been redefined without any input from them.

Guest...although I think you have brought a lot of thought provoking material to this discussion, unlike Don and Amos, who have simply parroted off the same old question without listening for an answer, I think your use of coarse jokes lessens the impact of what your are trying to say.   These people need compassion not agression, that way leads back to criminalisation and victimisation.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Peace
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 06:01 AM

Well, having followed this thread for one fuck of a lotta posts, it strikes me that bacon and egg sandwiches cannot be eaten by everyone on Earth. Who knew?

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 06:17 AM

"" These people need compassion not agression, that way leads back to criminalisation and victimisation.""

Do you ever consider following your own advice, and exhibiting some of that compassion, rather than denying same sex couples the same rights as other couples, and advocating that they be VICTIMISED?

This world would be a much better place if people like you would get on with their own business, and butt out of everybody else's.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Amos
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 09:36 AM

Ake:

Despite your rudeness, th epoint you ARE missing is that you are holding an untenable premise: that some individuals should have the right to define and constrain acceptability about others' private lives.

Your assertions about the "harm" of equal rights in marriage is bogus--"dangerous and destructive"???!! Oh, come on. WHAT danger? WHAT destructive? This is an arm-waving sham on your part.

WHat's worse, you use the arm-waving sham to justify meddling in others' lives. Now,that is destructive.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 01:15 PM

LOL!!!!!!! Great comment, Peace. Thanks for that.

This thread should be cross-referenced with the Susan Boyle one, put them a blender and mix thoroughly, then publish the results with intentions of making the New York Times Bestseller List and see what happens...

I think those results would be almost as impenetrable as Bob Dylan's book "Tarantula", but even more entertaining. Well, considerably more entertaining, I guess...

***

Amos...consider the possibility that he may not just be waving his arms at you...but also sticking his thumbs in his ears, wiggling his fingers, and waggling his tongue at you. Get upset, man. Go postal. ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Amos
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 01:32 PM

No, I shan't, LH. I learned the wisdom some time ago of not putting the control of my own feelings into others' hands! :D


A

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 01:52 PM

A wise move, Amos. ;-) Not always easy, but always worth striving for.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 04:36 PM

Sorry, if that sounded coarse, but when the topic was 'discussed' maturely, no one seemed to get it past their idiotic political stubborn crap. Let's face it, if two men want to be best friends, even love each other, live together, fine..they do all the time! But now, since the same two want to stick their weenies into the other, well, now that's different..that deserves to be a new political party, a new religion, and the guidepost for how everybody else has to view it???. You have got to be fucking kidding me!!! Put your weenies where you want,(anybody),..and shut the fuck up!....and don't go portraying this to our children as normal, healthy, and accepted behavior.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 06:49 PM

". . . and don't go portraying this to our children as normal, healthy, and accepted behavior."

Not to worry, GfS. Kids these days know what's going on (especially in matters such as this), and they will do what their genes dictate. You seem to be under the impression, as are a lot of people, that the gay lifestyle is a matter of choice rather than genetic predisposition. Scientific evidence in the form of brain research. I know you don't want to believe that, but it's a pretty solidly established fact.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 07:01 PM

We've been around that bush already...and your 'premise' was well discussed....and found to be nonsense. Just scroll back..OR.... "...Sorry, if that sounded coarse, but when the topic was 'discussed' maturely, no one seemed to get it past their idiotic political stubborn crap."
Bottom line, its not a political problem. That is an exploitation of corrupted, by 'funded studies' 'science'....you must have missed it. I lived through it...(as a counselor who got the memos!)

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: gnu
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 07:21 PM

Holy Moly! Still at it? I just clicked in to see if it was real. Glad I did. Read a few posts. Got a hankering for bacon and eggs... dunno if that makes me gay or not. But, I hadn't planned on goin ta Calleeforneeah soon anahwhay eh?

Keep suckin wind... I'll check back in another few hundred posts.

(Yeah... I DO know. Just dunno why yas all gotta thrash and trash. Don't make no sense ta me.... smile on yer brother... ??)

(Oh, yeah... having said that, I still don't like gay parades... just me.)

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage
From: Amos
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 07:43 PM

Wrong, lassy. It is purely and only a political problem as to what rights will be granted to whom.

Purely and only a matter of groups disdaining other groups and seeking to subordinate them in social privilege. This is not a kind or charitable impulse on your part, but that has never bothered you before and will not do so now, certainly not because I point it out. But you really should face it squarely instead of rationalizing it. Especially since you have this ambition to be Mudcat's in-house psychologist!!! (Expletives deleted).


A

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Barry Finn
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 08:38 PM

50 yrs ago, this was the same argument that was held so that bigots (big idiots) could keep the races from intermarrying. Many churches also upheld the idea. It seems that some of the religious are just as bigoted as the homophobes. Claim it as what ever fits your bill, degenerate, unholy, deminishing the values of the church/state married, a watering down of an institution, whatever, it will be eventually looked at as a time when our Government a a large percentage of the public was as as racist as back in the 50's when George Wallace was was trying to keep down the Blacks in Alabama. It's a real shame that we still can't get past the same hard learnt lessons when only the shading or the background is different.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 08:56 PM

Sorry, but quoting from a few anti-gay web sites objecting to the scientific findings is hardly a refutation. Like reading Creationists trying to refute evolution. Same hysteria trying to sound scientific.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 09:53 PM

Don, if that was in reference to me, it does not apply.
Barry, There is quite a difference between being born black, and being a homosexual. The rights issue doesn't apply here, either, because black is not a behavior. Its a race.
Amos(oh my Dear poor Amos), What if a homosexual wanted counseling, under a medical plan, and in the course of counseling, he came out from being homosexual?..Are you going to deny him medical treatment, because it wouldn't fit in your political agenda? It is a medical, and psychological issue. Keep politics out of it...haven't they done enough damage already???
gnu, I thought this thread had run its course, but the brickheads are back, without learning a damn thing!

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 10:34 PM

GfS, by hysteria trying to sound scientific, I was referring to the web sites from which some anti-same sex marriage folks keep quoting.

The differences in the hypothalamus are most definitely there. It's the interpretation of those differences--are the subjects homosexual because of the difference or is the difference because they are homosexual? Which came first?

The jury is still out, but research goes on. In the meantime, on the chance that it is the difference in the hypothalamus that makes a person homosexual, I, like other wild-eyed liberals, tend to favor giving gays the benefit of the doubt rather than put them in a straitjacket until the research is finished, which may take years. And even then, if it turns out that homosexuality is indeed a predisposition, there will be anti-gays who will continue to dispute the findings. Guaran-bloody-teed!

Glad we found some agreement on the other thread. Cheers!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 10:44 PM

Well, you had a couple of things going for ya'..one, you're a musician, and two, even a broken clock is right twice a day!!...(wink)

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage
From: Amos
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 10:54 PM

What an absurd, off-the-wall question!!!

Your assertion that homosexuality is "a behavior" rather than a born condition is the keystone of your ignorance. From false premises all things--including bizarre tangential zig-zags--are possible.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Apr 09 - 10:58 PM

Whatever you say, Amos.....

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 01:27 PM

Speaking of bizarre tangential zig-zags, Amos, there have been a few cropping up around here lately, and I'm worried about it.

I spotted a bizarre tangential zig-zag on one of the basement walls, for instance. It seems to have been made by a blunt instrument of some kind.

My dog was out in the backyard yesterday and he made a bizarre tangential zig-zag! I have no idea why.

I have seen several birds make bizarre tangential zig-zags as they flew over my property.

What does it all mean?

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Peace
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 01:31 PM

It means we need an accronim/akronimm/acrhonym.

May I suggest BTZZ?

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 01:38 PM

They sell ZigZags in a local shop which the police are frequently in.

'Acronym'. Jeri, the Spellinator.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 01:41 PM

Ah. But are they BTZZ's or just the ordinary kind?

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Peace
Date: 22 Apr 09 - 01:41 PM

So, uh, was that then an acronymious post?

HEY. I heard of Zig-Zag papers. They're used to roll--OH    MY    GAWD.