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BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 20 Jan 09 - 08:01 PM Not the last two standing, Ake, just the last two who still have hopes of seeing you and GfS exhibit some modicum of human tolerance. The rest of us have accepted that bigots can't be converted. Bye bye Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: akenaton Date: 20 Jan 09 - 08:19 PM I'm sorry Don T, but I said right up near the top that homosexuality is tolerated in this society, and as homosexuality is a fact of life in this society it is tolerated by me... and I am quite sure by GfS. What I will not tolerate is homosexuality promoted as a normal and healthy lifestyle, or the definition of marriage altered to accomadate homosexuality. Mr Obama and I may not agree on foreign policy or economics, but I'm pleased to say we do agree on that....Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage From: Amos Date: 20 Jan 09 - 09:23 PM The policy statements from the new Whitehouse.Gov website on the subject are, inter alia: Support for the LGBT Community"While we have come a long way since the Stonewall riots in 1969, we still have a lot of work to do. Too often, the issue of LGBT rights is exploited by those seeking to divide us. But at its core, this issue is about who we are as Americans. It's about whether this nation is going to live up to its founding promise of equality by treating all its citizens with dignity and respect." -- Barack Obama, June 1, 2007 Expand Hate Crimes Statutes:In 2004, crimes against LGBT Americans constituted the third-highest category of hate crime reported and made up more than 15 percent of such crimes. President Obama cosponsored legislation that would expand federal jurisdiction to include violent hate crimes perpetrated because of race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, gender identity, or physical disability. As a state senator, President Obama passed tough legislation that made hate crimes and conspiracy to commit them against the law.Fight Workplace Discrimination: President Obama supports the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, and believes that our anti-discrimination employment laws should be expanded to include sexual orientation and gender identity. While an increasing number of employers have extended benefits to their employees' domestic partners, discrimination based on sexual orientation in the workplace occurs with no federal legal remedy. The President also sponsored legislation in the Illinois State Senate that would ban employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.Support Full Civil Unions and Federal Rights for LGBT Couples: President Obama supports full civil unions that give same-sex couples legal rights and privileges equal to those of married couples. Obama also believes we need to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act and enact legislation that would ensure that the 1,100+ federal legal rights and benefits currently provided on the basis of marital status are extended to same-sex couples in civil unions and other legally-recognized unions. These rights and benefits include the right to assist a loved one in times of emergency, the right to equal health insurance and other employment benefits, and property rights.Oppose a Constitutional Ban on Same-Sex Marriage: President Obama voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment in 2006 which would have defined marriage as between a man and a woman and prevented judicial extension of marriage-like rights to same-sex or other unmarried couples.Repeal Don't Ask-Don't Tell: President Obama agrees with former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff John Shalikashvili and other military experts that we need to repeal the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. The key test for military service should be patriotism, a sense of duty, and a willingness to serve. Discrimination should be prohibited. The U.S. government has spent millions of dollars replacing troops kicked out of the military because of their sexual orientation. Additionally, more than 300 language experts have been fired under this policy, including more than 50 who are fluent in Arabic. The President will work with military leaders to repeal the current policy and ensure it helps accomplish our national defense goals.Expand Adoption Rights: President Obama believes that we must ensure adoption rights for all couples and individuals, regardless of their sexual orientation. He thinks that a child will benefit from a healthy and loving home, whether the parents are gay or not.This is as close as the LGBT community needs to get right now, and I would be happy to see these goals obtained. I am not going to quibble about the slightly neurotic "separate but equal" aspect that has been mad necessary by the religious right. There are much more important issues afoot. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Riginslinger Date: 20 Jan 09 - 09:52 PM Well, I agree with most of it, Amos, but the concept of a "hate crime" never made any sense to me. If I murder Alice because I was robbing Herb and she happened to see my face, that's just fine and dandy for the "hate crime" people. But if I'm white and I murder Alice because she saw me robbing Herb, ane either Herb and/or Alice happen to be black, that makes it a "hate crime" and I have to do more time, or die. We need to get over this shit! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 20 Jan 09 - 10:11 PM Ain't been whipped yet, Ake. It's just that sometimes I reach my level of disgust and I have to go breathe some clean air. But getting disgusted frequently is one of the hazards one encounters when one is concerned with matters of civil rights and one keeps encountering blatant bigotry. I think you are quite probably going to have to learn to tolerate what you said you wouldn't tolerate in the fairly near future. Some time back I knew people who said they would never tolerate having their kids go to school with blacks. Now look where they are!! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,TIA Date: 20 Jan 09 - 10:36 PM WTF Ake? "...homosexuality is tolerated by me... and I am quite sure by GfS. What I will not tolerate is homosexuality promoted as a normal and healthy lifestyle..." So you tolerate it and denigrate it in the same breath? Talking out of both sides of your ass I'd day. I've been reading plenty and keeping my mouth shut. Not any more bucko. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 21 Jan 09 - 07:16 PM ""What I will not tolerate is homosexuality promoted as a normal and healthy lifestyle, or the definition of marriage altered to accomadate homosexuality. Mr Obama and I may not agree on foreign policy or economics, but I'm pleased to say we do agree on that....Ake"" Judging by the following post, Ake, nobody thought to tell Barack Obama he agreed with you on this. Tough innit? Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 21 Jan 09 - 10:13 PM In a television interview some years ago with the late Quentin Crisp, England's most flamboyant gay, the interviewer mentioned the way Crisp was dressed—slacks suit, as I recall, open collar with a neck scarf, and his hair was quite long, carefully coiffed, and tinted a bit bluish—one would have to look twice to tell if he were a man or a woman. The interviewer inquired if anyone ever asked him what his gender was. He said that it happened fairly frequently. "I usually respond by saying, 'Does it matter? What do you have in mind?'" Don Firth P. S. He is also said to have remarked once, "I am one of the stately homos of England." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Ebbie Date: 21 Jan 09 - 10:34 PM "He is also said to have remarked once, "I am one of the stately homos of England." I've always liked Quentin Crisp. That quote reminds me of what Buddy Tabor in Juneau, Alaska sometimes says: I'm one of the living songwriters of the world. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 22 Jan 09 - 01:30 AM Sorry, if some of you did not comprehend, or read accurately, or whatever you did not to pick up on it, but I've repeatedly used the words, 'understanding' 'compassion' and words about that place, from where I'm coming from. Is it, that what you 'think' is from a liberal slant, that compassion and understanding, are an abstract concept, or not even part of that political view? But then, why should it be part of a political view??...do we expect politics, or the political mind to be compassionate, or understanding?...Sounds more like religious attributes to me. Nonetheless, it is YOUR political stance that is in itself, denying homosexuals from getting the medical/psychological assistance that they need!! How so??....Because you bought into the corrupt insurance INDUSTRY'S lobbyist's rap, that 'Well, after all, its not treatable, its that way from birth, its now a 'civil rights' issue...let's wash our hands of it...it might cost us something!!' You attack others for being 'homophobic and bigots' and shout and point to how homosexual's rights are being denied......IT IS YOU, and what you have interpreted as a 'given liberal cause' that is discriminatory. I can't see any post on here that gives a rat's ass about the well being, of homosexuals, any further, than what complaints bolster your pet argument for the day! ..and because of it, you've allowed yourselves to be insensitive, non-compassionate, closed off and blocked....Shame on you!!! You are an embarrassment to the other 'liberal' causes, that are justified....but this one, because of the indoctrination that you so eagerly consume, perhaps for 'other' reasons, you've turned your backs on actual documented truth, and have become fanatical, hostile 'party members', of God only knows what! Please, wake up, before that disease spreads to other parts of you!!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Ebbie Date: 22 Jan 09 - 02:20 AM hahhahahah It is too, too funny. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Joe Offer Date: 22 Jan 09 - 02:53 AM OK, so there are those here who contend that anyone who opposes gay marriage is bigoted. Is that necessarily true? Why, or why not? I guess I'm ambivalent about gay marriage. I'm not comfortable about the idea, and I feel much more comfortable saying that marriage is between a man and a woman. On the other hand, I don't think government or the majority of voters have a right to interfere with same-sex couple who want to get married. So, I guess I'm opposed to gay marriage, and I'm opposed to the prohibition of gay marriage. Does that make me a bigot? A bigot against whom? Could it be that if I believe that the union of two people of the same sex is not really a marriage, you could just let me believe what I believe? If I don't believe what you believe, does that mean I'm bigoted? -Joe, confused- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: akenaton Date: 22 Jan 09 - 03:02 AM GfS makes a valid point Ebbie, sneering will not erase that. Highlighting the homosexual lifestyle as a political cause may not be in the long term interests of homosexuals, I suppose most would be quite happy to keep a low profile; in fact I have read reports in which homosexuals reject the excesses of the radicals and the politically motivated "liberals" Continual promotion of homosexuality as normal healthy behaviour when the statistics say something completely different, could be construed as a form of abuse....what about the large number of homosexuals who just want a quiet life?? The subject is certainly worth discussion, and should not be dismissed in typical "liberal" fashion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 22 Jan 09 - 05:29 AM No Joe, It isn't what you believe that makes a bigot. It's what you do with that belief. If you set yourself up as the arbiter of what is right or wrong, and you choose to discriminate, or incite others to discriminate against a group, simply because YOU disapprove of some aspect of their behaviour, THEN you become a bigot. A man who believes that your lifestyle is wrong, but accepts that you have a different opinion, and adopts a "live and let live" attitude, cannot be described as bigotted. GfS rants on, in the face of overwhelming medical and psychological to the contrary, about homosexuality being a lifestyle option, and "curable". I find his views abhorrent. Ake is somewhat more balanced, and I merely disagree with his position. NEVERTHELESS, both are entitled to hold those views, and I am entitled to find them distasteful, without THAT simple fact making any of us bigots. Acting on the basis of those views, to disadvantage a person or group does make a bigot (IN MY OPINION, of course). Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: akenaton Date: 22 Jan 09 - 09:02 AM Don..... Mr obama and Pope Benedict are both on record as saying they are against homosexual marriage, unlike GfS and I, these two individuals are in a position to affect the "rights" as you see them, of homosexuals. Does this make The Pope and the President of the United States "bigots" and we,(gfs and I)merely people of differing opinion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Amos Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:24 AM Mister Obama's POLICIES, akneton, are as described in my post above. This is all arm-waving flapdoodle. Nobody cares whether you like an idea or don't like an idea. It is the policy of the commons, the civil domain, that is in question. GtS' last post is as incoherent as anything I have seen here. Is she saying that defending the civil rights of gays to equal treatment under the law somehow does them a disservice? Welcome to Wonderland. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: akenaton Date: 22 Jan 09 - 11:21 AM Amos...don't be a weasel...:0) Mr Obama is on record on several occasions stating that hye is personally opposed to homosexal "marriage" as opposed to civil union. How whitehouse.gov spin m Mr Obama's words is entirely up to them. I can't speak for GfS, but I take his/her meaning to be, that turning homosexuality into a political cause and opening up the debate, turns the spotlight on something that non-politicised homosexuals would rather keep private. It may seem to you that homosexuality is now the norm, but you people live in a bubble. Ordinary people all over the world, are uneasy about the complete normalisation of the homosexual lifestyle and its effect on society......and make no mistake that is what this issue is really about..... not civil rights. Radical homosexuals in the media have pushed this issue to the forefront and it has been latched on to by the "Liberal bubble dwellers", but homo sexuals are in reality no more deserving of preferential treatment than any other sexual minority.....or even smokers!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Amos Date: 22 Jan 09 - 11:30 AM Ake: This is poppycock. You are ignoring the distinction between his personal likes and dislik,es and HIS policies--not some webmaster's. As to what is "the norm", I have no opinion on it. Nor has anyone suggested preferential treatment--that is a cockeyed twist to what has been said. What Obama's office supports, as I have posted upthread, and what I support, is equal status under the law. How can that be preferential? Are you crosseyed? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Ebbie Date: 22 Jan 09 - 12:40 PM Since women outnumber men in the world, ake, I object to laws protecting the minority. You know how in your face they get. Men are pushy, to say the least. lol |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 22 Jan 09 - 03:02 PM Ake and GfS, why do you care? Why are you investing so much emotion (not to mention verbiage) in this matter? What is it to you? How does it affect you in any way? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 22 Jan 09 - 03:23 PM "GfS rants on, in the face of overwhelming medical and psychological to the contrary, about homosexuality being a lifestyle option, and "curable"." ...Absolutely, just the reverse is true. Amos posted a list of studies, that emphatically state homosexuals are that way, and it can't be reversed. I showed conclusively, that those studies are wrong, but that post got deleted. Perhaps, (with some editing) I can re-post it. If I can, and it debunks the politically financed studies, would you allow yourself to re-think your position?..or hold on to the 'party line'...which is not supported by the heads of the party??? I suppose anyone can believe what they choose, whether it's based on solid fact, or not...but what a person believes, may be a 'relative' truth to them, but not a reality, as to the cause and effect, of what really is. I have counseled, homosexuals before, and they unanimously, have agreed with me. Some of the homosexual rhetoric, depends on how long, that person has been homosexual..however, all of them, at one time or another, recall the time when they made the conscious choice, to get involved sexually, with another of the same sex. This is not a 'civil rights' issue, any more than smoking, as was pointed out. To make it, and hold on to it as a civil rights issue, does indeed re-direct the issue, and withholds, treatment, from those, who wish to have a nuclear family, but feel powerless, within themselves, or from the community to give them aid.....especially in the critical time, when they face this alone. By the way Ebbie, I know you are instrumental on having some input on some musical events, up there in Juneau. Do you schedule them when its snowing, then sneer and laugh at all the people stuck out there in the weather??? I find your attitude counter productive to getting these people help, when they want it..which of course, affects the rest of their lives....or at least a good portion of it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 22 Jan 09 - 04:21 PM GfS, your arguments asserting that what established scientists say is wrong reminds me of the rhetoric of The Discovery Institute, whose purpose is to push "Intelligent Design." They claim to be scientific, yet they attack established science, while at the same time cherry-picking certain scientific findings they feel they can pass off as supporting their views. This is not unlike those who cherry-pick the verses from the Bible that they feel support their views while ignoring the many that do not. They claim that accepted scientific theories about the origins of the universe and matters of evolution are wrong, and posit "Intelligent Design" as a "scientifically proven fact" as opposed to "merely a theory," thus amply demonstrating that they don't understand the way scientists use the word "theory." "Intelligent Design" is nothing more than Creationism disguised in a lab coat. I have read the same arguments you are presenting about homosexuality being a matter of choice rather than biological predisposition and I have heard the same arguments before. And they are bogus. This is a civil rights issue. And you are trying to make it sound like some vast, evil conspiracy that will destroy civilization as we know it. I've heard that before, too. Claptrap! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Amos Date: 22 Jan 09 - 04:36 PM It doesn't matter whether it is "curable", a "choice of lifestyle", a "genetic phenomenon", a "curse from God", or the will of ALlah. We are not talking about remediating homosexuality. We are talking about whether or not sexual orientation--no matter WHERE it comes from--should be sufficient grounds for bounding a set of civil rights. ANd the answer is no. Sexual orientation, no matter WHERE it comes from, should not be grounds for denying civil rights to a class of people, which is what Proposition 8 proposes. If it is simply trying to protect the ecumenical use of the word "marriage", then it has no business in law. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: akenaton Date: 22 Jan 09 - 04:51 PM Bollox Amos!! civil rights are not granted universally to every human. People do not have the right to do whatever they wish, regardless of other peoples rights. The smoking laws are an excellent example of this. latest on firemen dispute |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: akenaton Date: 22 Jan 09 - 04:58 PM Health authorities in the Uk are threatening to withdraw health care from patients who are also smokers, if they don't quit!....Do you think we should remind them of their "human rights"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 22 Jan 09 - 05:07 PM Also bogus. Not parallel at all. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 22 Jan 09 - 05:17 PM Smoking in public places (and for that matter, in the building in which I live) can affect the health of those in the vicinity of the smoker(s). The hazards of second-hand smoke are well established. Cigarette smoke from other people's apartments frequently drifts into ours through vents. What Paul and Philip (both non-smokers) do in their apartment does not affect us in any way. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 22 Jan 09 - 05:27 PM The same-sex couples that I have mentioned in my posts are in stable relationships, whether they are legally recognized or not. Their chances of spreading diseases such as AIDS are minimal, unlike those who are not in stable relationships. If one is concerned about homosexual practices spreading disease, thereby affecting everyone's health insurance costs, then I would think that stable relationships should be encouraged. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 22 Jan 09 - 05:41 PM I can't tell if these are just not getting on, or being deleted, so, here's another try. Everything below is quotes from studies, with their source posted. After that, click the link below, the judge for yourself...if even by the testimony of this one man.
The evidence clearly points to the conclusion that sexual orientation is a given and cannot be changed by doctors; and trying to do so is harmful to the patients and often leads to suicide attempts, and sadly some of the attempts are successful. LINK: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOTYFXZb_rE |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 22 Jan 09 - 06:00 PM Let me see, now. . . . How many times has this one interview with Richard Owen, which contradicts a whole body of scientific evidence, been posted? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 22 Jan 09 - 06:16 PM ""Radical homosexuals in the media have pushed this issue to the forefront and it has been latched on to by the "Liberal bubble dwellers", but homo sexuals are in reality no more deserving of preferential treatment than any other sexual minority.....or even smokers!!"" My how you do wriggle, Ake. Nobody here except you is talking about preferential treatment. What is being sought is EQUAL treatment as laid down in both English and United States LAW. You can't even manage to discuss the issue without constant snide little put-downs. Constant mention of Homosexuals versus normal people, or ordinary people. Digs about "liberal bubble dwellers". With every sentence you write, you expose your prejudice and bias for all to see. NEWSFLASH! Most "normal" (whatever that is) people don't give a sweet Goddam about how others choose to live, as long as they are not expected to do the same. I suggest that you are further from normality than many of those you decry. Better to keep ones mouth shut, and be thought a fool, than open it, and prove it so. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage From: Amos Date: 22 Jan 09 - 07:13 PM AKe: Civil rights are not granted to every human, but they are granted to every citizen under a code of law, at least in this country. Second-hand homosexuality is not a threat to your health, no matter how paranoid you become. Two individual humans should have the right to live their life in peace together with uniform rights appertaining to joint identity as a couple. Their sexual orientation should have no bearing on whether they have those rights or not. I am talking here about spusal rights. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage From: Amos Date: 22 Jan 09 - 07:49 PM ==SPOUSAL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: akenaton Date: 22 Jan 09 - 07:55 PM Practice what you preach Don! I'm sorry to say this, but you are deliberately trying to misrepresent what I write I have never used the phrase "normal people" to describe heterosexuals as opposed to homosexuals; please look back through the posts if you wish. I have said that there is an agenda by some homosexual radicals and bubble dwelling "liberals"(I wouldn't wish to deny the bubble dwellers)to normalise the practice of homosexuality, which is something quite different. Homosexuals can have all the rights afforded to heterosexuals in a civil union,the redefinition of "marriage" issue is simply another step on the road to normalisation, without taking into account the rights or wishes of the many millions who define marriage as between a man and a woman.....If you cannot see that this new definition diminishes traditional marriage for a large number of ordinary folk, then I'm afraid you must have joined Amos and the other Don under that "bright shiny dome" Getting back to universal human rights, people who are addicted to heroin are not criminals, but only an idiot would grant them the right to adopt a small child, a right that has been granted in many places to homosexuals and one which you no doubt support.....so civil rights are not universal, but are conditional....Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage From: Amos Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:33 PM And only an idiot would paint homosexuality as a parallel danger to heroin addiction. It's a completely broken (or completely fraudulent) analogy. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: akenaton Date: 23 Jan 09 - 07:24 AM The point I was making, as you well know Amos is that rights are conditional. Of course homosexuality and herion addiction are different, but both are conditions that affect the rights of those who practice them. Regarding the dangers of homosexuality, Pope Benedict seems to believe it a "real and present danger" and he is certainly not an idiot...In fact he may have better academic qualifications the you...:0) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage From: Amos Date: 23 Jan 09 - 08:11 AM No, its a fraudulent analogy because there is no basis in law for it; there are no medical, biological or public health risks involved. Just a lot of opinionated meddling.. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,TIA Date: 23 Jan 09 - 08:31 AM On the subject of homosexuals (which he/she has "counseled"), GfS says "...all of them, at one time or another, recall the time when they made the conscious choice, to get involved sexually, with another of the same sex" a) deciding who to do it with is not necessarily related to whom you are attracted to. b) do you recall when it was that you consciously chose to be attracted to the opposite sex? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 23 Jan 09 - 12:10 PM "How many times has this one interview with Richard Owen, which contradicts a whole body of scientific evidence, been posted?" Ummm....as many times as it takes for you to get it right..apparently, you are living proof, that you can't comprehend, what you read..which explains a lot....Its Richard Cohen! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 23 Jan 09 - 12:26 PM TIA, from your questions it sounds like you are asking me, personally when was I 'Chose' to be attracted to the opposite sex?'...you're inferring by both questions, that I am other than hetero(straight). I don't know if that was a 'shot in the dark' or another supposition, but I can't make heads or tails of what you are trying to ask. I'm straight. I'm not a homosexual. Now I'm beginning to think that your question was a wild shot to discredit me..in which case, ..umm,.. maybe you are the one with the bigoted bias...(?) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,TIA Date: 23 Jan 09 - 01:14 PM Not impugning anyone at all. If homosexuals make a consciuos decision to be attracted to the opposite sex, then heterosexuals must make a conscious decision to be attracted to the same sex. I do not remember ever making this decision. Does anyone? I similarly do not remember making the conscious decision to like eggplant, but be repelled by okra. And, the slightest knowledge whatsoever of my family history and current configuration makes any charge of bigotry laughable. Sorry, no traction on that one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 23 Jan 09 - 02:14 PM Okay, GfS, I got the guy's name wrong. Richard Cohen it is. Can I help it if Jimmy Kimmel mumbles? It doesn't alter the fact the Richard Cohen is full of buffalo chips. Is that the best you've got? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 23 Jan 09 - 02:39 PM ""Ummm....as many times as it takes for you to get it right..apparently, you are living proof, that you can't comprehend, what you read..which explains a lot....Its Richard Cohen!"" So, let me see if I understand the logic of this statement, GfS. 1. Richard Cohen flies in the face of the whole worldwide body of scientific thought, and the overwhelming weight of contrary evidence, and this, to you is proof that he is RIGHT! 2. Therefore you blithely post insulting comment about the sanity of any who don't immediately recognise the irrefutable truth of your blinding epiphany. 3. You and said Richard Cohen are the only two people on earth, with sufficient mental capacity to understand what is going on in the minds of these poor unfortunates, and to counsel and "cure" them. NO! I still think YOU are the ones who are twelve cents short of a dollar bill. Last post on this. YOU are boring me. Dijit |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: akenaton Date: 23 Jan 09 - 04:41 PM Well......As they say in Obamaville...."Thats all Folks" Thank you all for the discussion, especially those who kept it civil! and for those like Joe who posted common sense. The only thing I really didn't like was when some members used the ancient ploy of implying that I was a homosexual in denial,in place of constructive discussion. Sometimes we just have to travel the road that our brain points us down, regardless of the current fashionable point of view in our sector of society. The financial crisis which is now affecting everything around us will bring many changes, changes in lifestyle and what is socially acceptable will be one. Hopfully,traditional values will re-assert themselves, sanity will return.....we must wait and see. At the very least this thread did become a real discussion and not just another bout of liberal cheerleading for the cause of homosexuality, in great measure because of the contributions of Guest from Sanity.....Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Amos Date: 23 Jan 09 - 04:57 PM AKe: Twisting to the very end? There is no "cause of homosexuality". This thread is about the cause of equality under law. That's what you decline to address. All you ad hominem characterizations and your red herring side-issues and your mischaracterizations of the discussion will do nothing to cover up the fact that that is the one issue you, inlike Mister Obama, are not facing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 24 Jan 09 - 01:15 AM I thought, (if you all can remember), that candidate Obama, ran on revising the health care system, right? Meanwhile, I'm trying to get you ahead of the curve, about false studies, and insurance lobbyists, the medical/pharmaceutical industries community, and their influences on health care, ...that is, if you really want 'Change'...it is imperative, that the lobbyists, and the folks they represent, get OUT of the health care system..with all their phony bullshit(this issue being only one of them)....and you are actually resisting this thing being put straight!!!???!! Wait till they tell you what really causes cancer!(but that's another subject)...... So, the first thing Obama does, is put on a show, with the signing of executive orders, about lobbyists, and their ties with Clinton's, I mean 'HIS administration'......Oh well, I don't know if you get it, or can.....Hmmmm, I wonder if he is aware of something, that his devotees are oblivious to, for some mystical reason.......I'm showing you the studies are fraudulent, and those studies are the basis for determining if a homosexual is a homosexual, and I'm opposed to denying them their rights to medical/psychiatric care,...you want to keep them in the position they're in..by those definitions....and NOT CHANGE the health care system........and you think, I'M the loony toon??????????????.....Hmmm, what if ,in the course of granting them medical coverage, psychological counseling, goes with it....and they discover a way not to be homosexual any longer????...are you going to deny them that, too?.....All that, and 'marriage' is still marriage, and whatever living arrangements that homosexuals have, is not 'marriage' ...By the way, if you deny them their rights, because of sexual orientation reasons...how about discrimination of age??...Next is a crusade to 'free' the pedophiles,...and then deny that those who they prey on, they are not victims, but rather 'unenlightened freedom fighters'...who just don't understand that they are not really victims, but a new 'elite'??????????...the minority d'jour?? Now if this sounds preposterous....who should read your posts from this side......... And for whoever it was that posted, "Why do you care about them so much"........because its faster and better than waiting so someone else to...especially with the present mentality displayed on here..and in other 'so called liberal, mob rule, circles" Gosh, reminds me of an old song...Will the circle, be unbroken, by and by, Lord by and by........except in this case, the circle of the 'vociferously illiterate' must at least be penetrated, to get some truth into them.................I mean, if you really voted for 'Change'......... GfS P.S. Is this too fast for ya'? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 24 Jan 09 - 01:29 AM Nope. Too Medieval. Jeez, man, take a Valium. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 24 Jan 09 - 01:31 AM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 24 Jan 09 - 01:40 AM Oh,...I'm convinced, now...... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 24 Jan 09 - 01:41 AM 400 1 whoop-ti-doo!! |
