BS: I thought this figure deserved notice

Subject: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 11:31 PM

In listening to an interview with Colin Powell just now, I heard him give a figure that I find very striking.

There are more people in the US who don't have any health insurance than there are people who voted for McCain in this presidential election.

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 11:52 PM

uh, YEAh....

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: kendall
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 07:40 AM

The only civilized country in the world thaty has no national health program for all.
Huuummm, civilized, maybe that's the key?

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: dwditty
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 08:07 AM

I left a job recently. One of the big reasons was that I was tired of paying over $1000/month for family health insurance - and it was not even good insurance with co-pays often running $40-50.

The American dream I grew up with - the opportunity for people to start a small business and create a modest but comfortable life for themselves - is over, and the cost of health insurance contributes to that fact. We have seen entire economic sectors taken over by a few huge corporate players that make such pursits fruitless.

I certainly do not hang my hat on everything Michael Moore says, but some of the illustrations in Sicko certainly point out the need to rethink the whole matter of healthcare in this country.

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: artbrooks
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 08:11 AM

Interesting. The US Census Bureau's 2006 figures say that there were 47 million uninsured, and there is no more recent count. Using the 2006 percentage of uninsured of 15.8% and today's Census Bureau population estimate of 305,589,973, one arrives at a figure of 48.3 million. McCain got 55.8 million votes. I assume General Powell was using some other source for one or the other of these numbers.

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: Cluin
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 08:11 AM

"There are more people in the US who don't have any health insurance than there are people who voted for McCain in this presidential election."

Think there's much overlap there?

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: Emma B
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 08:45 AM

It's a nice headline grabbing figure but Obama gained 63.25 million votes nationwide, while Mr McCain won 55.90 million.

As art points out ...

'Nearly 47 million Americans, or 16 percent of the population, were without health insurance in 2005, the latest government data available.'

This figure, taken from the National Coalition on Health Care report Facts on Health Insurance Coverage is shocking enough without having to 'massage' the figures

Even more damning is the fact that, of this total, more than 9 million children are uninsured some of these being in families with at least one insured parent.


Obama promised to require health care for all children, and expand Medicaid, the government-run health program for the poor, and the State Children's Health Insurance Program or SCHIP.

In an interview with Commonwealth Fund president Karen Davis Reuters report...

"I do think that health reform will be a major priority in the new administration,"

"It's something that he personally feels needs to be addressed," added Davis, whose private foundation advocates better U.S. health care.

"It's a campaign that has set up the conditions for action on health reform. It would be very hard for him to run for re-election in four years not having acted on that commitment."

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: alanabit
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 08:53 AM

The figure does deserve notice. Forty-seven million is more - a lot more than the entire population of Scandinavia, or about the population of England.

When you also take into account that nearly one per cent of the population in the US is in prison (in "The Land of the Free") you get to realise that not everything is as bad in Europe as we are sometimes led to believe.

Both statistics are a disgrace to any "civilised" society.

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 09:07 AM

Of course, those in prison receive state-funded health care. Perhaps that's why they commit crimes and go to jail? Or perhaps the crimes stem from a lack of hope for anything better than a snort or a needle or smoke?

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 09:10 AM

Could someone say what proportion of the 47 million (and what proportion of the one per cent in jail) are black?

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: Emma B
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 09:17 AM

The Uninsured by Race/Ethnicity

'The uninsured are more likely to be white than other races or ethnicities, comprising about half of the uninsured population (48%).(6)

However, the uninsured are disproportionately Hispanic to a significant degree. Hispanics represent 14% of U.S. residents but comprise 30% of the uninsured.
The higher uninsured rate for Hispanics is not associated with higher poverty levels than other groups — the poverty rate for Hispanics is slightly lower than for African-Americans, 22.2% vs. 24.9% respectively.
Rather, research has shown that Hispanics are more likely to be employed in jobs that do not offer health insurance, such as construction and agriculture (but when offered health insurance they accept at the same rates at whites and blacks).(7)

From Overview of the Uninsured in the United States:

includes figures on
The Demographics of the Uninsured
The Uninsured by Income
The Uninsured by Age
The Uninsured by Parental Status
The Uninsured by Race/Ethnicity
The Uninsured by Work Status
The Uninsured by Citizenship Status
The Uninsured by Firm Size

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: artbrooks
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 09:37 AM

Undocumented migrants (aka illegals) comprise a significant percentage of that uninsured Hispanic population, but I don't have a specific figure to throw out. This group, who mostly work and pay taxes, holds down those minimum wage (or illegally sub-minimum, grey market) jobs in the construction and service industries that don't offer health insurance.

It is well documented that Blacks/African-Americans in the prison population represent a higher percentage than their proportion of the overall population. There are many contradictory studies (easily found via Google) as to why; conclusions include such things as the higher unemployment rate among young Black males, implications that Blacks (and Hispanics) are more likely to be involved in gang activity than the "white" population, the unfortunate (IMHO) propensity in the US of incarcerating people for "victimless crimes", such as using drugs, and so forth.

It should be remembered that lack of health insurance is not the same thing as lack of access to health care. Most, if not all, hospital emergency rooms are required to treat anyone who walks in the door, regardless of their medical condition or their ability to pay. There also is no question that this care is vastly inferior, over time, to that provided to people who have a family doctor who they see on a regular basis.

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 09:43 AM

General Powell said 48 million voters. Perhaps one or two of the states that took a long time to call came in after he made that statement. I'll find the video in which he said that.

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: Emma B
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 09:51 AM

The figures quoted in the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services I linked to are for American 'residents'

The same report states

The vast majority (79%) of the uninsured are citizens.

However, a disproportionate percentage of the uninsured are non-citizens.

While non-citizens are 7% of the population, they are 21% of the uninsured.
Non-citizens are a disproportionate percentage of the uninsured because they are more likely to have characteristics associated with higher uninsured rates.

Non-citizens are more likely than citizens to:

be Hispanic (59% vs. 12%),
have incomes below 200% FPL (51% vs. 30%),
be young adults age 18 to 34 (42% vs. 22%), and
work for small firms with fewer than 100 employees (34% vs. 22%).   

I think these figures generaly support art's post although they obviously can't include details of 'illegal' immigrant work status

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 09:52 AM

Emergency rooms do not provide medical care. They provide emergency care, and they do charge people for it. Lack of access to health insurance does mean lack of access to health care for people who can't afford to pay. Hospitals may be required to treat people, but they are not required to do it for free.

If I could afford to pay the emergency room to provide my medical care (a lot more expensively than a regular doctor's office), then I could afford to see a regular doctor. I cannot afford to do either. If I showed up at a hospital emergency room and requested treatement, they would be required to give me whatever treatment would stabilize me, then they would sent me home (without necessarily correcting the problem) and then they would send me a bill.

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: artbrooks
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 10:07 AM

Carol, any individual can go into any of the ERs at any of the hospitals in Albuquerque, or any other city in which I have lived, get treated for a bad cold, a cut finger, or something more serious, and walk out again. Sure, they get billed, if they leave a real address. There are no consequences to not paying that bill. Here, they are steered to the University of New Mexico Medical Center, and I get billed on my real estate tax to pay for that service. We just voted to extend that mil levy. As I said, the level of care provided is much lower than what a person gets from a family doctor.

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 10:08 AM

...and then they would send me a bill

And then when the bill's recipient doesn't (can't) pay the bill, they send it to collection, and when that can't be collected they write it off. (Which jacks up the rates on care overall because eventually they WILL make their money, but from the deeper pockets.... I think of our high co-pays as part of what allows -- de facto-- our poorer neighbors to get any care at all.... an unarticulated tax.)


But from the view of the patient, people go to the ER for medical care because they know they will get at least some degree of treatment and that eventually the phone calls to pay for it will stop. They don't go there because it's cheaper than office care, but because there is less insulting interaction at the counter over the money, and because by the time they decide to brave the counter at the ER, the need just about IS an emergency.

I've done it myself-- stewed all day about not being able to afford an office visit I know I probably need (our expensive "coverage" is minimal), but by the time it's midnight, I know I just can't wait till the morning and that at least the ER will do what it can. We of course pay the co-pay, but some can't. Yes, in a large city it will be "stabilize and discharge," and the population density will make that a fast turnaround with cursory "care." But it's better than nothing, and in rural health care it is often quite fine care "called" "stabilizing."

Ya know, we spend a lot of pastoral time in the ER with folks of all economic abilities, so we do know how the system works (poorly!), and it IS a runaround, but to confuse being able to pay an ER visit and being able to pay a doctor's office visit is just not quite an accurate reflection of the actual economics of the healthcare business that allows the ERs to do what they do.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 10:19 AM

Uninsured patients are 50 percent more likely to die of traumatic injuries than those with health insurance.

David Noonan
NEWSWEEK
From the magazine issue dated Nov 10, 2008

"Drawing on the National Trauma Data Bank, which collects information from approximately 700 U.S. trauma centers and hospital emergency departments, Haider and his colleagues analyzed almost 430,000 moderate to severe cases of traumatic injury (from auto accidents, gunshots and other causes) treated between 2001 and 2005. Controlling for age, gender, type and severity of injury, they found that, overall, uninsured patients were 50 percent more likely to die from their injuries than insured patients. Among white patients, the mortality rate for those with insurance was 4.2 percent, compared with 7.9 percent for the uninsured. The numbers for minorities were worse. Uninsured African-Americans died at more than double the rate of the insured, 11.4 percent to 4.9 percent. And while 6.3 percent of insured Hispanic patients died after traumatic injury, the rate for uninsured Hispanics was 11.3 percent."

The article offers some suggestions about why the difference appears, with one likely one being that the uninsured are much more likely to have pre-existing untreated other conditions that make emergency trauma treatment more difficult and/or less likely to be successful. It appears to consider only deaths while still under emergency care(?).

John

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: Emma B
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 10:23 AM

The problem as I see it from this side of the Atlantic is that a system designed for acute care can't adequately cope with chronic care, i.e. the treatment of, and care for, patients with on-going or long-term illnesses which are unlikely to be met in the ER setting

A Blue Shield web page gives the following advice .....

'Save the ER for Emergencies

Ever wonder why emergency room waiting areas always seem filled with people waiting for hours to get care? One of the major reasons is that millions of Americans each year use emergency rooms for routine medical care.

Emergency room treatment for non-emergency medical conditions is also a major contributor to the rising cost of healthcare. On average, emergency room visits cost $383, while doctor's office visits cost about $60.16 On top of the huge waste of money and medical resources, the true tragedy is this: You can usually get more appropriate care for non-emergency conditions in a doctor's office.

Your personal physician will help you determine when the emergency room is the right choice.

If your situation isn't an emergency, check with your doctor first before going to the ER

If you experience a medical problem outside of normal doctors' hours and are unsure whether you require emergency care, call your doctor

If you cannot contact a physician, then go to an urgent care center

Limit trips to the emergency room to true emergencies - urgent or life-threatening medical problems - and build a relationship with a primary-care physician for routine care. It's a healthy way to keep healthcare affordable.'


as Carol pointed out -
'If I could afford to pay the emergency room to provide my medical care (a lot more expensively than a regular doctor's office), then I could afford to see a regular doctor'


Generally speaking 'Medicare has not adapted to chronic care. Its fragmented payment systems and regulations can actually work against coordinated, patient-focused care'

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 10:28 AM

It all sounds like a nightmare. A bad dream that is now going to end.

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: artbrooks
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 10:28 AM

Please don't misunderstand me. I am not saying that ER care is as good as or as "cheap" (HA!) as regular care. All I'm saying, and primarily for the benefit of those outside the US, is that lack of health insurance does not mean that an individual has no access to any kind of medical care at all.

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 11:10 AM

ER care isn't medical care. It's emergency care. I couldn't, for instance, go into my local ER and get a check up, and get my bone density tested, or a full heart health workup. Emergency rooms stabilize people who require urgent care.

On the subject of the figures I used in the opening post... I was using 49 million uninsured because that's the figure I heard. Can't remember where, though. Here's the video with Colin Powell saying 48 million voters for McCain. I wasn't massaging the numbers, I was working with the numbers I had at my disposal at the time...

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/politics/2008/11/05/colin.powell.reaction.cnn


On another thread somewhere (can't remember which one right now), I posted some figures about how the new bankruptcy laws have contributed (to a strikingly large extent) to the mortgage meltdown. As the numbers of the uninsured grow, people who face medical bills they can't afford are now unable to declare bankruptcy because of the punitive nature of the new bankruptcy laws. So they end up defaulting on their mortgages instead of going bankrupt (with a bankruptcy, most people can keep their homes).

It's certainly true that as long as there are people who are uninsured, everyone pays for it.

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 11:24 AM

And I offer this as an example of how people without insurance handle their medical problems. In the last month or so, there have been quite a few nights during which I experienced heart palpitations and chest pains. I also have a lump on my shoulder. Both of these things could indicate a serious life-threatening situation. But I'm not going to go to a doctor to get them checked out, because I can't afford it now. If either of them got to the point where they required urgent care, I might go to the emergency room. But what then? Let's say I have a serious heart condition or the lump is malignant. The emergency room isn't going to fix those problems. So I'm still left without any medical care for those things. Which means I really don't have any access to any medical care, unless I needed stitches or had a broken bone or something like that.

And even then, let's say I went to the emergency room and got slapped with a big bill, and I didn't pay it. That would seriously damage our credit rating. We need a good credit rating because JtS' work requires that we have a good car, and the one we have now is piling up the miles. Some day (maybe in the not too distant future) we will probably have to get another car. If that happened, and if we had destroyed our credit rating because we didn't pay an emergency room bill, our means of making a living would also be destroyed. So not paying the emergency room bill really isn't an option.

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 12:06 PM

would seriously damage our credit rating.

Right, of course that is part of it. But have you looked into the option of asking your doctor if they can work with you for a lower fee? An office visit may "cost" an uninsured person $75 while they bill an insured person for just $30. Maybe they would cut you some slack. Sometimes you can offically be seeing the nurse practioner, for instance, who calls the MD into the exam room for some consultation, but you're only charged for the nurse visit.

The folks who work in those practices are just as pissed off about managed care as the patients. Sometimes just asking them how to work their system really WORKS.

And again, my experience of rural ER care is that it has been really quite wonderful MEDICAL care. Because they know their population and they do what they can, when they are not overloaded with car crash victims.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 12:17 PM

I don't live in a rural area. And I don't have a doctor. Doctors charge a lot of money for patients' first visits. But even if I did, I don't see how it would help if I have is serious and expensive health issue. It also wouldn't help me pay for all of the expensive tests that are usually needed in order to determine a patient's health status.

We're not going to solve the health care crisis by trying to apply a band aid to what is rapidly becoming more on the level of a slit jugular.

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 12:44 PM

We're not going to solve it with persistently negative, can't-do-anything thinking, either. On a large scale we need to reach large-scale solutions and change the system. On the personal scale, we all need to work the existing sytem as creatively as we can. I hope you do, and I KNOW you are smart enough to work out a way to get the care and diagnostic help you need. I hope you put your attention there-- it does sound serious.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 12:50 PM

Perhaps socialism would help......

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: Wolfgang
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 12:57 PM

Could someone say what proportion ... of the one per cent in jail are black? (Fionn)

And what would that percentage tell us? This is a very often quoted but misunderstood statistic.

Males for instance are far too often jailed in comparison to their proportion in the population. The bias here is even much more extreme than the over-representation of blacks in the jails of the USA. What does that percentage tell us?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: alanabit
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 01:02 PM

You are being naughty WLD. That sort of language isn't polite in America!

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 01:03 PM

It boggles my mind why someone would characterize an effort to bring awareness to voters of a real and growing problem so they can do something about it, persistantly negative, can't do anything thinking. Maybe in Looking Glass Land that might make sense, but not in the real world.

The solution exists, but it's through the application of the will of the voters on the political process, and not people sitting on their hands and thinking that there's nothing we can do about it except tell people to use the emergency room and not pay the bill.

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 01:05 PM

They don't write off the ER bill if you own a house. The collection agency will set up a payment plan, sometimes of a very small monthly amount, but if you don't keep it, they will go to court and sue for a lien or an attachment on wages. They don't like to do that and will try very hard not to, but they will do so because their clients, the hospitals, tell them to. I know, my daughter works for a first party collection agency for hospitals. To her credit, she has a big heart, knows from experience what it is like to owe and not be able to pay, and uses much compassion in her work; her clients love her. How often do you hear that about a collection agent?;-)

I heard on NPR this morning that dental care is being eliminated for a bunch of kids, can't remember where it was and can't find it right now, but it seems par for the despicable course. I look forward to CHANGE!

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 01:12 PM

I think the voters are going to have to apply pressure in order to get this particular change. I think President Obama and Congress are going to need that help in order to do what will be needed.

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 02:17 PM

There was an author interviewed on Fresh Air on NPR today. He is wel worth listening to; the audio will be available after 3p, today. He woudl advise President Obama to gain some political capital in the first year or two with dealing with the economy, the wars, etc. gaining allies then go for transforming health care. It made sense as did a lot of other things this fellow offered. Here's the blurb about his book:

Journalist and economist Robert Kuttner has reported on elections for over three decades. His latest book, Obama's Challenge, looks at the many Herculean obstacles the president-elect faces — and what it will take to tackle them.

"If he is able to rise to the moment," Kuttner writes, "he could join the ranks of a small handful of previous presidents who have been truly transformative, succeeding in fundamentally changing our economy, society, and democracy for the better."

Kuttner's previous works include The Squandering of America: How the Failure of Our Politics Undermines Our Prosperity, Making Work Pay: America after Welfare and The End of Laissez-Faire: National Purpose and the Global Economy after the Cold War.

Here's the link for the audio: click here.

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 02:30 PM

That is an interesting approach, kat, and one I agree with. But you can bet money that his opponents will use it against him if he tries it. "You promised health care and now you won't even discuss it" or the like.

WYSIWYG has a point. It is critical to be proactive about getting health care for yourself and your family. It is available out there but probably not at the doctor's office. There are nurse practitioners and clinics who will work with you. As I understand it, as long as you make a payment monthly, even as little as $5, on a medical bill, it can not be turned over to a collection agency.

No one disagrees that the problem is national and huge but it makes no sense to ignore potentially deadly medical problems while waiting for the govenment to sort it out. I am currently paying down a bill for a test which cost $1400 and was incurred before I had insurance that covered the procedure. They get what I can afford to pay each month. I even missed a month and that triggered a phone call asking if they could help me devise a plan to pay off the bill. But at least i know I don't have cancer and could have had it treated early if I had.

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 02:37 PM

As I understand it, as long as you make a payment monthly, even as little as $5, on a medical bill, it can not be turned over to a collection agency.

That has not been my experience, here, Sins. One hospital bill of mine, form before I was insured, was supposed to have been paid off in a year, according to the hospital. They neglected to tell me that when I signed admittance papers. Fortunately I know how to argue my case and had some back-up from their accts. receivables person, so they accept it will take me longer to pay off over $13,000.

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 02:43 PM

My bill is taking more than a year but it is possible that local laws are different. In NYC I know any monthly payment kept the wolf from your door - I had a friend paying off $150,000 in medical bills for her husband's cancer and he had insurance.

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 03:58 PM

The other problem with that is the effect that carrying that much debt would have on the credit rating. I'm not an expert on this, but I would think that carrying a large debt and paying it off in very small amounts, like $5 a month, would be very bad for one's credit rating.

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 09:17 AM

That was an interesting discussion with Robert Kuttner, although I'm not sure he's all that familiar with Obama's health care plan. It looks to me like there are a few things that could be done right away that would not only not require any political capital up front, but would help Obama to build political capital in his first year in office. Here's the plan as it's outlined in the Obama/Biden website, and I've bolded the parts that I think could be done in the first year...

http://www.change.gov/agenda/healthcare/


The Obama-Biden plan provides affordable, accessible health care for all Americans, builds on the existing health care system, and uses existing providers, doctors and plans to implement the plan. Under the Obama-Biden plan, patients will be able to make health care decisions with their doctors, instead of being blocked by insurance company bureaucrats.

Under the plan, if you like your current health insurance, nothing changes, except your costs will go down by as much as $2,500 per year.

If you don't have health insurance, you will have a choice of new, affordable health insurance options.

Make Health Insurance Work for People and Businesses - Not Just Insurance and Drug Companies.

    * Require insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions so all Americans regardless of their health status or history can get comprehensive benefits at fair and stable premiums.
   
* Create a new Small Business Health Tax Credit to help small businesses provide affordable health insurance to their employees.
   
* Lower costs for businesses by covering a portion of the catastrophic health costs they pay in return for lower premiums for employees.
   
* Prevent insurers from overcharging doctors for their malpractice insurance and invest in proven strategies to reduce preventable medical errors.
   
* Make employer contributions more fair by requiring large employers that do not offer coverage or make a meaningful contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees to contribute a percentage of payroll toward the costs of their employees health care.
    * Establish a National Health Insurance Exchange with a range of private insurance options as well as a new public plan based on benefits available to members of Congress that will allow individuals and small businesses to buy affordable health coverage.
   
* Ensure everyone who needs it will receive a tax credit for their premiums.

Reduce Costs and Save a Typical American Family up to $2,500 as reforms phase in:

    * Lower drug costs by allowing the importation of safe medicines from other developed countries, increasing the use of generic drugs in public programs and taking on drug companies that block cheaper generic medicines from the market
    * Require hospitals to collect and report health care cost and quality data
    * Reduce the costs of catastrophic illnesses for employers and their employees.
    * Reform the insurance market to increase competition by taking on anticompetitive activity that drives up prices without improving quality of care.

The Obama-Biden plan will promote public health. It will require coverage of preventive services, including cancer screenings, and increase state and local preparedness for terrorist attacks and natural disasters.

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 08:12 AM

Wolfgang, analysing prison populations is a useful way of tracking iniquities in communities and societies.

In Britain the over-reprentation of males in the prison population is, alas, being being reduced in part by locking up more women. The proportion of the total population in prison has grown dramatically during the 15 years (mostly under a Labour government) - though it is still some way short of the one percent achieved in the US. The UK trend closely tracks the gap between rich and poor, which between 1979 and 2005 grew wider faster than in any developed country except New Zealand. (See successive reports by the apolitical Joseph Rowntree Foundation.)

I was struck during the last days of the US presidential election by various broadcast interviews with people in predominently black communities. I saw people restricted to fairly basic vocabularies, living in levels of hardship I no longer expect to see in a developed country, and it crossed my mind that though there has been much progress, many blacks are still living on the wrong side of the tracks. It is at least interesting that on both sides of the Atlantic Mudcat itself is almost exclusively the White Man's preserve.

If we don't question the status quo, Wolfgang, it is not going to change.

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 08:24 AM

Couple other numbers:

Percentage of GNP going to health care: USA #1 @ 16%

Life expectancy: USA 17th among developed nations

Infant mortality: USA 22nd among developed nations

in other words: It ain't workin' for US!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: I thought this figure deserved notice
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 08:29 AM

In his press conference yesterday, Obama said that health care is still going to be one of his first priorities (video in this link)...

http://change.gov/newsroom/blog/

We will still need to apply pressure to our Senators and Representatives to pass any needed legislation.