BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 10:59 PM

A bloke in the pub told me that polish people eat donkeys, he reckons that some of them went to a donkey farm down south somewere and ate all the donkeys, and the woman waht owned it was really upset wehn she found out, and she was crying for ages, i think she had no frends, just a few donkeys, and then them poles went and ate them, that must be upsetting i suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 04:13 PM

I really can't speak for Poland specifically, but if someone is leaving one country for another, it shouldn't be an issue. And it wouldn't be if that person were not simply making room for another. The industrial countries had solved the problem of expanding populations, and some were on the decline.
             Things were looking up until the mass migration began.

             More troubling to folks who made personal sacrafices to recognize the problem and to take it upon themselves to do something about it, all their efforts have gone out the window, along with their heritage in many cases.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 03:01 PM

But in any case what's this got to do with whether people are living in Poland or England? So far as the planet goes it doesn't make any difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 01:48 PM

People who are worried about the survival of the planet--at least as we know it--should start worrying about there being too many people.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 01:08 PM

Maybe people who are worried about there being too many people should consider starting with themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 12:32 PM

And your point, pdq, is what?

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: pdq
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 12:22 PM

Mexico was mentioned a while ago in this discussion.

The native people of Mexico have been abused by each other, by tribes that now are within the US, by the Spanish Conquistadors, and now by the corrupt Mexican government. Many speak no Spanish, just their native languages.

Here is a list (note: some tribes are found on both sides of the US/Mexico border):

Amuzgo
Aztecs (Mexicas)
Chatino
Chichi-Pooloca
Chichimeco Jonaz
Chinanteco
Chol
Chontal (de Tabasco)
Chuj
Cochimi
Cora
Cucapa
Cuicateca
Guarijio
Huasteco
Huave
Huichol
Ixcateco
Jacalteco
Kikapu (Mexican Kickapoo of northern Coahuila state)
Kiliwa
Kumiai
Lacandon
Lipan Apache (north of Chihuahua)
Mame
Matlatzinca
Mayans
Mayo
Mazahua
Mixe
Mixteca
Motozintleco
Nahua
Olmec
Opata (Northwestern Sonora)
Otomi
Paipai (akwa'ala)
Pame
Papago
Pima (Alto/Bajo)
Popoloca
Popoluca
Purepecha (Tarasco)
Seri
Tarahumara
Tepehua
Tepehuano
Tequistlateco (Chontal de Oaxaca)
Tlapaneco
Tojolabal
Tolteca
Totonaco
Trique
Tzeltal
Tzotzil
Yaqui
Zapoteco
Zoque

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 11:26 AM

I Hate Wogs
-Eric Bogle

I'm a dicky-dye Australian guy and me name is Blooey Schmidt.
I love this sunburned country and I'm bloody proud of it
And I love our simple way of life and the things we all hold dear
Like V.F.L. and Big Ben Pies and foamin' Tueeze beer
I love our open friendliness where a man can make good mates
In fact in all Australia there's just one thing I hate:

I hate Wogs, they live like dogs
Some eat bananas and some eat frogs
Soome wear turbans some wear clogs
All the bloody same to me 'cause I hate Wogs.

They can't speak proper English and they never seem to learn
And the awful guff that they call food would make your stomach turn
It's always dipped in garlic sauce or fried in olive oil
I've never tasted any meself, but I bet it all tastes vile!
What's wrong with good Australian food, you Slovaks and you Poles?
Good healthy stuff like pie and sauce and chips and chigger rolls

'Cause I hate Wogs, they live like dogs
Some eat bananas and some eat frogs
Soome wear turbans some wear clogs
All the bloody same to me 'cause I hate Wogs.

And the local chip shop down the street is run by a bloody Greek
He's open sixteen hours a day and seven days a week
And every cent that you spend there on a pie or on dumsim
Helps to send back home to Greece for a bastard just like him!
Oh, I never eat there meself 'cause I couldn't touch Wog meat
I usually eat at the Chinese caf' that's just across the street!

'Cause I hate Wogs, they live like dogs
Some eat bananas and some eat frogs
Soome wear turbans some wear clogs
All the bloody same to me 'cause I hate Wogs.

I was queueing down at the Registry, a-pickin' up me dole
In front of me was a Yugoslav, in front of him a Pole
Behind me was a Eyetalian, behind him was a Turk
Those lazy migrant bastards do, they never bloody work!
But in spite of what the papers say, there's work for those who want to
The wife and twenty-seven kids is all the work I'm going to!

'Cause I hate Wogs, they live like dogs
Some eat bananas and some eat frogs
Soome wear turbans some wear clogs
All the bloody same to me 'cause I hate Wogs.

So send the bastards home to Spain, and Italy and Greece
And maybe when they've all gone home, we'll get some bloody peace
To sit in the shade of the killabar tree and drink beer all day long
And run amok with a flat-bed truck, down by the billabong
And every night at twelve o'clock to show that we're not slaggards
We'll stand and sing our national song, "Advance Australia", backwards!

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 08:30 AM

Yes, and what bubblyrat is saying for the UK is going on in other parts of the world as well. Places that are not islands, and still have some open space left, are seeing that "space" become rapidly swamped with people. There is nothing of a racist nature in being concerned about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 25 Dec 08 - 12:53 PM

Well said bubblyrat, I couldn't have put it better myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Goose Gander
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 02:28 PM

Aztlan is a myth, with as much veracity as pan-Celticism.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 02:13 PM

The people who were legalling residing in the states you mention, McGrath, were Americans. But what you seem to be describing is Aztlan, not Mexico.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 01:56 PM

"In Mexico!"

Along with Texas, California, Nevada, Utah, and much of Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, and Wyoming...

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 11:17 AM

I realise that you were probably not being intentionaly patronising PE but it is somewhat of an ironic statement - Saying that you feel sorry for people because they are being patronised is, to me, one of the great oxymorons of our language:-) Apologies if my rebuff came over as offensive to you but just substitute the word 'Poles' with 'disabled' and I think you will see what I mean.

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 09:17 AM

"Where were the Mexicans before they came to America?"


                      In Mexico!

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 07:37 AM

I was being neither patronising, ironic or just plain stupid. I was making an observation.Yes, we know they are people just like us. No-one said they weren't.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 07:02 AM

I must say, I do feel sorry for the Poles. Slagged off by some. Patronised by others.

I am not sure if that is patronising, ironic or just plain stupid...

PLEASE vent your Anti-Racist spleen elsewhere, and GET REAL ( Or come and live here in OVERCROWDEDSVILLE UK !!).

So venting racist spleen is quite acceptable to you then bubblyrat? But we already knew that didn't we...

and btw - Poles are the same now as they were 50 years ago. They are all still, believe it or not, all people, just like us, and entitled to live in reasonable peace and prosperity.

DeG
(aka David Polakow)

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 06:54 AM

I remember a very cross Pole on the Today programme (BBC flagship current affairs prog) complaining bitterly that the Poles and other eastern Europeans were being cast as immigration scape goats.

His point was that, even at its peak, Eastern European immigration never approached in numbers the steady inflow from Africa and the Indian subcontinent.

Mainstream centre left media was suddenly able to run stories about the impact of immigration because they could talk about white immigrants.

The overwhelming source of immigrants to the UK was, and is, Africa and the subcontinent.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Paul Burke
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 04:17 AM

Where were the Mexicans before they came to America?

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 12:02 AM

The Poles came to Britain for the same reasons the Irish came--and the Mexicans come to America for the same reasons the Poles and the Irish came to Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 02:16 PM

Poles come to Britain for the same reason the Irish came here - there are jobs here that they can do. If the jobs aren't there, or the locals can do them as well they won't come here or stay here. If things are better back home they'll go home or stay home.

And, like the irish before them, they greatly improve the place.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: astro
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 11:54 AM

You know, it is amazing to me that there are always unsubstantiated claims that the immigrant communities bring nothing to our country. This does not even get close to the true facts. There is great initiative and culture that is mixed within ours that enriches us and brings economic growth (read Post America by Zacaria). My only suggestion to those who disparage our neighbors is that they most likely enjoy paying them minimum wage or below while complaining about them....My suspicion is that growth in all countries can also be attributed to motivated people including ones who have just arrived.

Astro...in Los Angeles...where the communities are mixed and we enjoy a multi-cultural life, much richer than some who seem to like to express themselves as if they have one too...

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 09:30 AM

Bubblyrat,
          Factually and reasonably expressed. You could be my Home Secretary for England, Wales , Northern Ireland and Scotland any day of the week. It`s about time someone on our behalf began to address Brussels with these terms.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: bubblyrat
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 08:32 AM

Why is it that every time somebody,ANYBODY, in Great Britain,or ,especially,England, says ANYTHING, or expresses ANY concern about the OVERWHELMING and TOTALLY UNSUSTAINABLE numbers of uncontrolled immigrants to an ALREADY OVERPOPULATED small island, they are immediately branded a RACIST or a NAZI ??? Why ??Why ?? Why ??
       I have nothing against Poles "per se".....my first girlfriend was a Burzinski, my first "proper" partner a Ziolkowski,and I really fancied a Bozena Radomski (despite her Glasgow accent ! )---in fact, many Poles,displaced by WW2, were housed in special camps in and around the Henley--Reading area, and the Polish Catholic College of The Sacred Heart, staffed by the Polish Marian Fathers,only very recently closed its doors at Fawley Court,near Henley-on-Thames where I was born and live today.BUT----I am talking about the 1950s and early to mid 1960s here, when A) the recent anti-German alliance between Britain and Poland was much more in the public collective mind and B)..there was far less overcrowding and congestion than there is today !!Thus were we ready,willing,and able to assimilate large numbers of refugees from the European theatre of the war.(including many GERMANS, which I think speaks volumes about the KINDNESS and TOLERANCE of the British people.)
                      Fast forward to today, however, and you have a DIFFERENT STORY altogether.Poland itself was lost to us for many years,and a whole generation grew up here in Britain knowing Poland as a COMMUNIST BLOC country, ---a part of the SOVIET EMPIRE, for God's sake !! COMMIES !! Now, because of recent political events, Poland is A) restored to its status as a non-communist country, and B) is suddenly part of the European Economic Union !! SO.....times are hard over there,after years of COMMUNIST maladministration,and there are no restrictions on cross-border travel in the EU, so, what do the Poles do ?? What anyone else would do, of course !! They come to SOFT,SENTIMENTAL,TOLERANT,FRIENDLY but, sadly, OVERCROWDED Britain----where, sadly,their prescence is not so welcome. It's a mixture of ECONOMICS and DEMOGRAPHICS, quite simply. So, some of you out there, PLEASE vent your Anti-Racist spleen elsewhere, and GET REAL ( Or come and live here in OVERCROWDEDSVILLE UK !!).
                   Shalom !!
                              Roger

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 07:59 AM

"I feel the government should have improved the infrastructure to cope with the numbers arriving into the country."


               I would think it would make more sense for the government to try to do something to curb human population growth, so we all don't have to live like sardines.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 03:38 AM

I must say, I do feel sorry for the Poles. Slagged off by some. Patronised by others. You all know who you are.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Comrac (troll alert contact max)
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 04:47 PM

As I said, as a tax payer all my life (unlike some) I feel the government should have improved the infrastructure to cope with the numbers arriving into the country.

Schools, hospitals and councils have all expressed concerns. It is nothing to do with race. No one expected the numbers that arrived.

I suppose one thing people like myself who always worked for a living instead of scrounging of the state (like some) admire about these guys is they pay their way.

I admire their attitude to hard work. There probably wouldn't be the requirement for their labour if the government over here would chase half the bloody loafers off benefits and make them do something to earn their hand-outs !

There are too many in the North of Ireland that don't want the crown, but they want the half crown !

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: ard mhacha
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 02:21 PM

Hello Comrac or should I say Walter Mitty, you have now entered the Guinness book of records for alias's, have you collected any more nazi uniforms?, we all know this idiot from he first posted,his finger prints are on every post.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 02:07 PM

If they are able to go home, good luck to them, and if they stay they good luck to them too.

I just wish that Polish good manners could rub off on some of the young natives, and I hope it doesn't happen the other way round.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 12:00 PM

We don't want no people what won't get drunk!

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Megan L
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 04:47 AM

The season of good will to all? Aye except if they don't come from your wee cleek. Of course local people never get drunk or cause any trouble except when they go to the folk club of course but thats tradition aint it.

A person is a person not a country.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 04:41 AM

So why are British people not being trained as dentists? Yes, a lot of people are exploiting Poles for their cheap labour, but by doing so, they also squeeze out British labour.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 04:35 AM

My daughter's Polish friend, is off to Portugal soon, with her English boyfriend, to open a cafe and start a new life in a country where they can afford rent and food, without having to worry about it, as they do here. She works extremely hard. She came over a few years back with her Polish boyfriend, but was abandoned by him. He spoke fluent English, she spoke not a word. She was left here penniless and scared, but she taught herself the language, held down two jobs, worked every hour she possibly could, sending most of her money home to her family.

There are many, many Poles and Eastern Europeans in Sidmouth, where they keep the hotels going for those who visit the town. They all work damn hard for very little money, and in my opinion, they're exploited by the rich and greedy hotel owners, who use them as 'cheap labour', don't look after them at all well and even rent them rooms, at vast amounts, in the houses they own around town, where they so often like to keep their workers, ensuring they get their money back from them in rent.

If it wasn't for the Polish dentists who came over a few years back, then many people in Cornwall would have no dental care at all.

Here in Sidmouth, the trouble is caused by the English, not the Polish. If they all return to Poland, then I'll miss them.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Comrac (troll alert contact max)
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 02:25 AM

So Lox, Please enlighten us all. What do you know about the Polish community living in Ireland ?

Do you not believe me ? the two Polish guys that live two doors away from me were the first to agree with me when we spoke about this. They gave me a great insight to their culture last night. I never realised there was so much tension among them.

So come on Fill us all in.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 01:50 AM

For Britain, at least, the return of Poles back to Poland is a good thing because this will help slow down the rate of unemployment that always comes with a recession. Also, they will free up jobs that we didnt want originally,but do now- or rather, jobs that we did want, but couldn't get, because we had been squezzed out by the low wages that attracted immigrants but would not sustain a British person. The rate of immigration was far too high to be sustainable and we didn't have enough housing for them, which, in turn, pushed up rents for immigrants and indeginious people alike. Wages were pushed down and rents pushed up. As always, it is the, mostly, unskilled working class that suffers.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Riginslinger
Date: 21 Dec 08 - 09:37 PM

Of course, one would have to know something about hammers!

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Dec 08 - 08:44 PM

Best thing to do when you want some work done that needs a man with a hammer.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Riginslinger
Date: 21 Dec 08 - 08:40 PM

And I'd watch out for a guy carrying a hammer!

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Lox
Date: 21 Dec 08 - 07:21 PM

No Comrac - you aren't knocking them ...

... you're just saying that "They fight a lot, sadly a lot seem to carry knives and hammers. They are certain to get stopped by the police and asked to blow into the bag, the numbers caught drunk driving is serious. They do like their Vodka !"

No generalizations there, just you saying it as you see it.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Dec 08 - 06:45 PM

MIf they're returning to Mexico they aren't leaving America, they're only leaving the US.

And it is arguable that a Mexican crossing the border with the United States is not actually leaving Mexico anymore than an Irishman or Irishwoman crossing the UK border is leaving Ireland.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Comrac (troll alert contact max)
Date: 21 Dec 08 - 11:18 AM

As I said Joe if you had read my post, I am not knocking them. I think the government should have proved the structures to deal with the numbers arriving in.

Yes the Irish planted themselves in a lot of pockets around the table. I didn't. I worked, put myself through college and paid my way, never received a hand out in my life. Sonot in a position to speak about that point.

I am an non smoking, tea total Irishman who remained in the land of his birth.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Dec 08 - 10:12 AM

They do like their Vodka !

Gee, that's what they said about the Irish in America, and so many other places. Interesting how the tables turn, isn't it?

Comrac, I'm sure there are social problems caused wherever there is immigration. But immigration is one of the results of economic downturns, and immigrants deserve sympathy and assistance from those in a better economic situation. If you call yourself Irish, you're from a race that plagued the rest of the world with immigrants in the not-so-distant past. Those Irish immigrants turned out to be a blessing in many places.

Maybe you should try some Polish food before all the Poles go home.

-Joe Offer, of Irish ancestry and married to a Pole-

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: number 6
Date: 21 Dec 08 - 10:05 AM

I want to move to Mexico ... it's warmer there .... and the people are also friendly.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 21 Dec 08 - 09:41 AM

"You see, a lot of white people have two major personality issues when it comes to home repairs:

1) They're too lazy or stupid to do it themselves."

*Puts hand up*

The Polish guy who does my handyman chores has just left my house. I ordered a new bed for Christmas guests, and it would have taken me the better part of a day and untold stress to put it together myself. It took him half an hour. He did some other stuff for me while I got on with making the Christmas pudding.

I hope Tomasz doesn't go back to Poland. he has a young family and his eldest starts school next year, so he's in two minds about whether they should start at an English school. The Polish community around here is still quite strong, but I think it has been for some time - that post-war influx found a home in this part of the country, and in fact there are some well-known Polish war graves up the road in Newark.

Anyway, I am glad they came. I can get decent rye bread at Sainsbury's now.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Comrac (troll alert contact max)
Date: 21 Dec 08 - 09:09 AM

Listen twist and turn this whatever way you wish, there is nothing bigoted about it. Christ you can't open your mouth these days someone is ready to pounce on you with this race shit card.

Look I live in Ireland, I speak as I see it. I have no problems with individuals from Poland or anywhere in Europe coming in here. What I do have problems with is, If the government want an open door policy, fine. Please build extra schools and hospitals to cope with the numbers. Befor they came over we heard we needed more primary school places and more hospitals, so that problem didn't go away.

And it would help if those wishing to live here took a crash course in English before taking up residence. A lot simply don't have a word of English.

And yes a lot of Polish are appearing in the local papers every week for minor crimes. There seems to be problems within their own community. They fight a lot, sadly a lot seem to carry knives and hammers. They are certain to get stopped by the police and asked to blow into the bag, the numbers caught drunk driving is serious. They do like their Vodka !

Cut this racist shit out, I speak as I see it.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Riginslinger
Date: 21 Dec 08 - 08:26 AM

I'm not aware of anyone doing that!

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Dec 08 - 01:30 AM

Good god, Rig. What on earth makes a person feel -and espouse - the notion that one group is more entitled to survival than another?

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 11:03 PM

Probably the proper term is "concern for the survival of the planet."

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: bobad
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 10:14 PM

The appropriate term, in this case, is bigotry.

Subject: RE: BS: Tide turns as Poles end great migration
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 09:13 PM

And, of course, there are really small minded pricks who can't seem to grasp the reality that Poles and Brits are mostly Europeans, so any friction between them certainly couldn't be racial.