BS: BNP: What would you do?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 04:48 PM

A person cannot change their ancestors nor the colour of their skin.

A person is entitled to freedom of religion and thought and sexuality(let's not get silly about this aspect, OK?).

People can change the level of their education, their speech habits, their written abilities, their manners, their diligence, etc. In short there is nothing to stop people seeking to improve themselves.

Some, however, would prefer to hang around on street corners, spit, fight, steal, and seek to mock those of better speech and behaviour. Since that is a matter of choice by those idiots, ridicule of them is not unjustified.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Royston
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 02:59 PM

So, racism is unacceptable, but classism is okay?

There is nothing wrong with peasants or peasantry. There is something wrong with lazy, feckless people...of any class.

Racists, like the BNP, see and describe a world where ALL people of a certain group display the same characteristics (normally negative stereotypes). THEY would have you believe ALL immigrants are begging scrounging or stealing (property or jobs). I am, with some irony, throwing a spotlight back on BNP supporters or at least their natural constituents. The BNP target poor, resentful and bitter white folk. I don't think it is nice or pleasant but it is a reality. Let's look at leading BNP politicians like errrm...

RICHARD MULHALL - BNP councillor and leader of the BNP group on Calderdale council convicted of benefit fraud in October 2006. The party supported and ket him in post and still think he's a jolly good sort of WHITE benefit criminal. So that's OK then.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 02:08 PM

Gervase, when it becomes a personal vendetta against an individual, I think a line should be drawn. Yes, a person who runs for political office is a public figure and loses some right to privacy because of that.

However, if that person is a member of our community, then I think he/she deserves some privacy and protection within the community. You can address a political debate quite completely without personalizing it. If the person concerned says or does something that warrants discussion, then discussion may be appropriate. The fact that the person ran as a BNP candidate is certainly worthy of reasonable discussion, but we long ago reached a point where we had beaten the topic into the ground. Then it's time to come up with more information to discuss, or to shut up.

Your approach, however, bordered on stalking. BNP candidate or not, the person is a human being. And Royston, since you state that you know nothing about MBSGeorge, then I suggest you should talk about what you do know. When you find something out that's factual, then come back and tell us.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST, Richard Bridge elsewhere
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 02:08 PM

By and large I believe in the welfare state, but I do know some people who abuse it. I call very much to mind a chap, Marcus, locally to me who was a claimant and ducker and diver (and drinker, and how).

One day in conversation in the pub that now is no longer there I came to realise that he was in fact rather intelligent.

A little while later I started suggesting ways he could get jobs and get himself off the dole.

His response: "Why would I want to do that?".


Curiously, I gather that he later did do exactly that and is no longer drinking destructively, at least not all the time.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: meself
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 01:19 PM

"White, British-Born trash - feckless, lazy peasants"

So, racism is unacceptable, but classism is okay?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Royston
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 11:14 AM

Not a problem, Bruce. Gawd knows I 'ave me moments meself! And I rightly had to check myself on aspects of that earlier debate.

You see we are all influenced and we all acquire 'beliefs' from a highly treacherous and worrying media-machine in this country and further afield. We all need to check our assumptions about the world around us and ask ourselves if we really know what we believe we know, or if we have received somebody else's so-called wisdom. Don't know if that makes sense, that's what I was trying to get across in the other thread - the causal (not a typo!) link between news, media and racism (the former two producing subconscious, unwitting and unintended if not overt racist reactions)

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 11:05 AM

Won't it be great when schools can buy whatever they need and armies have to hold bake sales to buy weapons?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Royston
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:59 AM

You see, you just cannot tolerate and humour or sympathise or empathise with people who swallow this fascist line. They must be repudiated and isolated.

Mainstream politics needs to remove the tenuous grounds on which the BNP siren-calls are based.

"Taking our schools" - Build more schools
"Taking our houses" - proven to unntrue, but just build more.
"Hospitals" - Build more
"Jobs" - The recent fascist attacks against Romanians in Belfast involved a group of Romanian workers invited here by local employers who could not find local "Whites" willing to take menial, minimum-wage jobs. This is not unusual. There is a genuine problem in this country with White, British-Born trash - feckless, lazy peasants. You see them every time there is a BNP rally or "undercover" documentary. Let's be realistic here.

BNP supporters drone on about witholding benefits from immgirants - a group who don't qualify for any assistance until they have resided here for two years. Let's talk about withdrawing benefits from ANYONE that refuses to take paid work and let's take a good look at some people's incapacity benefit claims. I don't think some of the BNP grass-roots would appreciate that policy.

If BNP George were in 1945 Germany, she would be one of the German citizens who were dragged, protesting, to the gas-chambers and burial pits at Belsen-Bergen concentration camp to witness the dead and the still barely living. German citizens who thought themselves "terribly nice" and were happy that Hitler got the railways to run on time and cleared out the inner cities for "decent folk like them".

One of the reasons I am particularly strong on holocaust-deniers is that my uncle Edward (whom I came to know very well before he died) was among the troops that liberated Belsen. He was a driver and was involved in rounding up the great and good and decent folkd and brought them in to see the truth of their collective denial and stupidity.

Never forget, never surrender, never compromise!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:43 AM

Thank you, Royston. I could never make 'blue clickies' from PDF files. And likely this would be a good time to apologize to you for my ill-considered remarks to you a few days back. I do apologize sincerely. I hope you'll accept it.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Royston
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:39 AM

As peace suggested, or just click HERE

It is a little out of date, missing a lot of the more recent catalogue of shame and new-found South-African terrorist links.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:16 AM

[PDF] The British National Party A briefing

Google
that.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:12 AM

Bravo, Royston. Very well-said.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Royston
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:11 AM

Gervase, do you actually know mbs george or are you just tagging her with what i presume is a party tag?

I do not need to know anything more about BNP George than that which she has freely imparted by standing in support of the British National Party, its aims, objectives and leadership.

She is a fascist.
She is a member of a nazi-styled political party.
As a BNP candidate for public office, she hob-nobs and glad-hands with the leadership; a leadership which includes holocaust-denying, hitler-admiring, attempted child-murdering terrorist & racist scum who are plotting - daily - to spark a violent race-war in MY COUNTRY. I have all the references and proofs for those accusations - they are just a few of the criminal convictions held by Griffin and his inner circle and include views and objectives stated by Griffin himself in public.

I don't need to know anything more about this "George" person.

If she dislikes the reality of her unpleasant life then only she can change it; leave and renounce the BNP and try to return to mainstream, decent society.

If she really does not understand what she has got herself into then she is profoundly and dangerously stupid and I continue to regard her with contempt.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 09:53 AM

Gervase, do you actually know mbs george or are you just tagging her with what i presume is a party tag? I've known George for maybe eight or nine years or so as a Middle Bar Singer, but had no idea that she was standing as a candidate for the BNP until Mike (Cllr) told me.
As a Middle Bar Singer I don't feel happy with George calling herself "MBS George", and feel it would be more appropriate for her to call herself "BNP George"; the name of the party for whom she stood for election in the Cepen Ward of Chippenham.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 06:36 AM

There
is
always
a
price
to
be
paid
when
people
stand
up
against
Fascism.

There's
a
greater
price
to
be
paid
if
people
don't.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 06:32 AM

Can I make a plea to consider the words of
Miguel de Unamuno y Jugo Spanish essayist, novelist, poet, playwright and philosopher

"That which the Fascists hate above all else, is intelligence."

and fight the BNP with reasoned argument and refuting their lies NOT simply with name calling and expletives

"When I read good people with good intentions using neo-Nazi language to argue against neo-Nazis I feel they have not understood that the fight against fascism is also a fight against dehumanising language."

thank you Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 06:15 AM

Yeah,
Joe.
I
forgot
that
only
the
BNP
can
post
under
multiple
identities.

---

And if they get caught, they get deleted.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 05:30 AM

Sorry folks. I didn't see the thread http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=122186&messages=10 about Shepheard and whittle being jailed. Also, there's a Guardian article at http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/10/first-racial-hatred-online-conviction .

It doesn't sound like this pair are rsponsible for Redwatch. However, an important precedent has been established. Namely that you can't upload race hate material to a server in another country and expect immunity from prosecution.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 05:14 AM

I think she tagged herself by standing as a candidtae.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 05:14 AM

"Just a few days ago a fomer BNP activist and white supremacist Simon Shepherd was jailed for four years for threatening and scurrilous anti semitic activities in the north of England."

Does anyone have any further details on this? I heard on the BBC PM programme that Shepherd and A N Other had been jailed for running a race hate website, but didn't catch any more. Is this the infamous Redwatch? If so they should also have been charged with incitement to violence.

"On saturday the 15th August anti fascists are going to demonstrate against a revolting BNP hate festival in Derbyshire."

Does anyone know the location of BNP festival? The anti-demo starts assembling in Codnor market square at 9am, with coaches arriving around 11am. Unfortunately, I am going to have to make my own way there and it's possible I may not arrive until after the parade has headed off. Just for once I don't fancy driving all over the Derbyshire countryside trying to catch up.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: greensue
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 04:28 AM

Gervase, do you actually know mbs george or are you just tagging her with what i presume is a party tag?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 03:01 AM

If there is any doubt as to the fascist ,racist and violent nature of the BNP go to google images and type in "John Tyndall".
Tyndall was the first leader of the BNP and Griffin's immediate predeccessor.

Tyndall,an open Hitler lover all his life and a proud nazi, can be seen on google images posing in his nazi uniform in front of a large swastika and underneath a framed photograph of his hero,Hitler.It is quite sickening.The man was steeped in hatred and violence and had a string of serious criminal convictions.

His successor Griffin, is also a convicted race hater and has been involved in racist and fascist politics since his teenage years.

He is an anti semite and a denier of the holocaust.His alsation dogs were /are called Anne and Frank.He can also be seen on google images in a white power T shirt leading a National Front march. He is a former leader of the violent National Front.

But the fascism is not just confined to the top leadership.The core of the BNP is nazi through and through and many of its lower ranking and regional leaders have serious criminal records for race hate and violence.Just a few days ago a fomer BNP activist and white supremacist Simon Shepherd was jailed for four years for threatening and scurrilous anti semitic activities in the north of England.
The BNP should always be identified for what it is ..a violent,fascist and racist organisation with neo nazis in its core leadership .
On saturday the 15th August anti fascists are going to demonstrate against a revolting BNP hate festival in Derbyshire.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 08:15 PM

...and that was 700 by the way. And given what the BNP represents, 700 posts is not too many. Six million might be a better number.
Americans may feel happy to have the KKK spout their stuff because of a belief in free speech, but they don't have to live with the fact that fascists have now been elected in the UK and will get given the best part of three quarters of a million dollars of tax-payers' money to promote their twisted ideology. The sort of ideology that suggests we sink boat-loads of migrants to stop them reaching our shores, that suggests that Jews are behind a conspiracy to do down the white race, that...well, need I go on?
I know the wish is to keep this place a touchy-feely, politics free zone, where the real world doesn't intrude, but in the UK the fascist right is making a deliberate effort to appropriate traditional music and dance to further its own filthy ends. I don't want that to happen. If that means shouting out a few home truths, so be it.
And if this post is pulled as well, then what remains of any respect I had for the people who set up the Mudcat as an inclusive place to celebrate folk and blues will finally have evaporated.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 08:02 PM

Bruce? What the hell's Bruce got to do with the price of fish?
That wasn't Bruce saying that, it was me.
I had a message deleted in which I said BNP George was a fascist.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 07:42 PM

Sometimes if you're not logged in, the post doesn't identify who posted it and it just shows up as "Guest." I've had those deleted. I've wondered if the monitor thought I was trying to get in under the radar screen, or if the message was deleted simply because it was anonymous.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 06:59 PM

Touché, er....Russ.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 06:24 PM

Only one thing to say to you Russ. SuperVixens.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Russ Meyer
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 06:22 PM

Oh dear Bruce, so you have been posting under a false identity !

Well spotted Joe.

I think the sooner you close this thread the better, it has ran too long.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: greensue
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 06:10 PM

I was supprised to hear that most people have had messages removed. I have never had any message removed from any website. I am however supprised (also) that folkies are so vehement at times over politics when most of us dont seem to ever discuss politics when at festivals, clubsetc.
In answer to the title of the thread, I wouldn't vote for them. What more is there to say. No dont answer that I think I have spent the last hour reading it.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 05:46 PM

Peace (Bruce Murdoch) says:

I think most of us have been pretty explicit on here - to the point of having posts deleted for being too explicit in equating the BNP with fascism.

I take charges like that very seriously, Bruce. I looked through all of the deleted messages in this 693-message thread, and I find that they all were deleted under policies clearly stated in the FAQ - almost all of them were anonymous or deceptively identified. Yes, several of your messages were deleted - because you posted them under a false identity.
Tell the truth, Bruce - or else nobody will believe anything you have to say.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 05:15 PM

When I read good people with good intentions using neo-Nazi language to argue against neo-Nazis I feel they have not understood that the fight against fascism is also a fight against dehumanising language.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 11:42 AM

The cold harsh reality is that the BNP are NOT, repeat NOT going away anytime soon, to believe otherwise for whatever reason is simply to, as the say goes, dream on baby, dream on.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 04:38 AM

It isn't an insult ...

... they are a neo-nazi paty and their politics are fascist.

They wish to etnically cleanse the UK (whatever that means) and their representatives in government are pushing for a european border control that would sink boats containing refugees bound for european shores.

How is it inaccurate to describe them as fascist?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 03:14 AM

And
if
that's
deleted
I'll
repost
it.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 03:13 AM

"I think most of us have been pretty explicit on here - to the point of having posts deleted for being too explicit in equating the BNP with fascism. It's OK to stand for election on a blatantly racist, neo-nazi ticket, but it's not OK to call someone a fascist, apparently."

Fuck
the
BNP
fascist
bastards.

I
mean
that
in
the
nicest
possible
way.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Royston
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 02:57 AM

'The argument goes that the BNP rarely make into the headlines on their own steam so if you don't respond to provocation, deprived of the oxygen of publicity they will wither away.

That is a quote from Emma's post, it is attributed to one of the founders of Nothing British", an anti-BNP campaign.

The last bit reminded me of a quote by the late, great comedienne, Linda Smith, on 'The News Quiz". On one edition, another panellist used that "deprive them the oxygen of publicity" line and she responded with "I would rather deprive them the oxygen of OXYGEN!"

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 03:19 PM

"the Daily Mail and the Conservatives doing something useful to fight the BNP. Maybe it is just spin."

Nah....The Conservatives and The Daily Mail simply don't want any competition

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 08:12 AM

"Sink their boats, throw them a liferaft and send them bacck to Libya ..."

Brace yourselves before looking here

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 06:55 AM

I am rather surprised to find the Daily Mail and the Conservatives doing something useful to fight the BNP. Maybe it is just spin.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 06:47 AM

and from the Conservative site "There's nothing British about the BNP" - the blue link you may see below the thread

a list of BNP members with criminal connections

giving the name, what they were convicted of and the person's position in the BNP

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 06:38 AM

Being curious by nature and having a desire to 'know the enemy' I clicked on the BNP link below the thread which Penny referred to

There is some useful stuff there :)

Mobilisation against BNP's Red, White and Blue festival August 15th now underway

Events are heading towards a summer Saturday show-down between the BNP and anti-fascist protestors at the BNP's annual Red, White and Blue rally which falls this year on August 15th near Ripley, Derbyshire.

After the public backlash caused by recently-elected Griffin's televised egg-ing on College Green, we hope the confrontation will not lead to more sympathetic TV coverage for the BNP leader and a huge police costs for hard-pressed Derbyshire taxpayers.

Anti-fascist demonstrators are holding a summit to make their plans. Our advice: don't let this event kick off the sort of summer of violence which would give Griffin the moral high-ground.


The site is titled "There is nothing British about the BNP"

- "Nothing British" is a campaign against the politics of discrimination, segregation and racial supremacy started by Tim Montgomerie and James Bethell.

Tim Montgomerie is a former Conservative Central Office staffer who started ConservativeHome, a British political website, that aims to represent UK grassroots conservative opinion.
James Bethell has stood as a Conservative Party candidate


Neither are members or supporters of the BNP!


"JAMES BETHELL: Why I'm launching an online fightback against the poison of the BNP"

'The argument goes that the BNP rarely make into the headlines on their own steam so if you don't respond to provocation, deprived of the oxygen of publicity they will wither away.
This certainly worked when a few papers and broadcasters held a monopoly on the national and local news media. And many, including those in communities fighting extremism, remain committed to this approach.

But I wonder if the internet has changed all that. The danger is that by not contesting the ground we are giving BNP a walk-over on the critical playing fields of the internet.
That's why we are launching a new online campaign against the BNP (www.NothingBritish.com). It does not attack them on traditional grounds favoured by the left: criminality, economic incompetence and general uselessness.

Instead it cuts straight to the main difference between the BNP and all the other parties in Britain. Their determination to deport, one way or another, the non-indigenous population of the UK.

Called 'there's nothing British about the BNP', there is a campaign video, a website and a petition which we will be promoting in the run-up to the elections.
There will be those who argue that this gives the BNP what they want. A fight.
I disagree'

From the Mail Online 15th May 2009

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Penny S.
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 05:04 AM

When I looked at this thread, I found what appears to be a link to the BNP website at the bottom. Didn't click on it to check, being a bit chary of establishing any link between my computer and them.

I understand a number of companies are approaching Google to make sure that links to the BNP do not appear on their websites, as they have started to do. (Somewhere in the Guardian yesterday, I think I got this from.)

Thanks Emma for confirming what I could not believe I heard on the BBC news yesterday.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Stringsinger
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 04:58 AM

It's important to evaluate on what basis your friendship survives. This can be done by explicitly expressing your views about the support for the BNP. You can do this in such a way as to respect the friendship but not go along with the ideology. If your friendship survives this discussion (which it should be, not a rant) then it is worthwhile. If not,
c'est la vie.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 06:43 PM

Do I feel disturbed about a BNP member committing suicide? Probably somewhat less than I do about a person of more civilised principles doing so.

Do I feel disturbed about the possibility of the BNP having any power?

You bet your sweet bippy I do.

Frankly, Rifleman, there are sme people without whom we are better off. I wouldn't personally kill them, but if they do the job themselves I have little or no objection.

By the way, did you not note the irony? I am almost sure that Royston's quote was from some nazi or other, who said it about a Jew or a person of colour.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 05:41 PM

Sometimes I get all ill and whoosey and confused watching threads like this, then sensible people like Gervase turn up and I feel all better again! Nosarcasmintended, but Charlies on right now, so I better haste to telly!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 05:34 PM

I think most of us have been pretty explicit on here - to the point of having posts deleted for being too explicit in equating the BNP with fascism. It's OK to stand for election on a blatantly racist, neo-nazi ticket, but it's not OK to call someone a fascist, apparently.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 03:16 PM

Oh look a BNP supporter, how polite they are being

"This can be done by
explicitly expressing your views about the support for the BNP."

I'd sooner have root canal work done, without the use of anesthesia.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 02:59 PM

seriously disturbed is the term I used and the term I meant...got it?..Good!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 02:59 PM

"The EU should sink boats carrying illegal immigrants to prevent them entering Europe"

Are we honest to God expected to take this bunch of brain deadened weevils seriously? It's not so long back that a Daily Telegraph reporter asked Griffin how he proposed to get rid of 'aliens' who were born in this country. Griffin replied, and bear in mind this polemical genius is Oxford educated and a law graduate, "Oh I don't know. Drop them out of plane somewhere over Africa".

This isn't politics. this is bar room drivel.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 01:53 PM

The EU should sink boats carrying illegal immigrants to prevent them entering Europe, British National Party leader Nick Griffin said during an interview with the BBC

When the interviewer, BBC Correspondent Shirin Wheeler, replied: "I don't think the EU is in the business of murdering people at sea." Griffin replied: "I didn't say anyone should be murdered at sea - I say boats should be sunk, they can throw them a life raft and they can go back to Libya."

Libya has no functioning asylum system and is not a party to the 1951 UN convention relating to the status of refugees; human rights groups have raised concerns about Italy sending migrants back to Libya without first screening them for asylum claims or to discover whether they are sick, injured, unaccompanied children or victims of human trafficking.