BS: Broadband Tax... UK

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 05:18 PM

Might make much more sense, and work out a lot cheaper, to have a guaranteed universal broadband service paid for through a licence system.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: bfdk
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 05:06 AM

McGrath, the licence's purely for the privilege of being able to *watch* TV. However you go about it, or even whether or not you do, is up to yourself and for yourself to pay for.

I pay DKK 149 for my broadband connection each month, £18.25 at today's exchange rate. That's just for getting myself online. Then I pay about £85 every 6 months to the service provider hosting my website, but that's another story.

On top of this I pay to my housing association, and have for all the years I didn't have a TV, too, a monthly fee for what they call the 'small package' of TV channels. I get about 12 channels, and for that I pay about £6-7 a month. As the housing association gets 'a deal' from the provider, you can't avoid it by proving you don't have a TV, it's simply collected with the rent for the flat. I'm not sure about the fee for the 'full package' of about 30 channels, but it must be somewhere between £20-30 a month.

And anything to do with telephone comes on top of this and is charged entirely separately. It's quite a lot of money when you start adding it all up!

All the time I didn't have a TV, and didn't pay the TV licence, I used to get letters every year or so along the lines of 'are you SURE you don't have a TV? You do know that you're liable to pay if...' and 'about 95% (rising to 99% after it turned into a media licence) of all Danes are liable to pay the TV licence'. Basically, those letters said 'we think you're cheating, but we can't prove it'. One lady here got so upset with one of these TV licence letters that she sent a letter to a national newspaper asking them to please come visit and verify that she did NOT have any electronics making her liable to pay TV licence.

Best wishes,

Bente

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 10:00 PM

OK, USAers- do we have anything like that? We pay for the service but I don't think anyone in this country pays anything similar to a 'Media Licence'.

I'm curious about the rationale and who the money goes to. Is it just a 'revenue enhancer' for a given city or does it go to the level above?

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 07:27 PM

Do you have to pay for the broadband connection on top of that, bfdk? Or does the Media Licence cover that?

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: bfdk
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 05:38 PM

You're way behind us in this.

A couple of years ago our politicians here in Denmark decided to change the name 'TV Licence' to 'Media Licence' and decreed that anybody with an internet connection of 256MB or above was liable to pay this media licence - whether or not they owned a TV, whether or not they ever used their PC to view TV. It's enough that you CAN do it, although I think watching TV on a 256MB line would be pretty erratic..

Our annual licence fee is DKK 2220, which at today's exchange rate equates GBP 272.

As if this wasn't enough, from this summer they changed the rules again. Henceforth not only are you liable to pay the licence fee if you own ANY piece of electronics capable of going online, cellphone, PC, laptop, what have you, but if you think you shouldn't be liable to pay, well, after the latest change of rules the burden of evidence lies with YOU. YOU must prove that you do not own ANY piece of machinery that makes you liable to pay the licence fee. Innocent until proven guilty went out the window, blessed all the way by our darling politicians.

That was when I gave in. I'd never owned a TV before and never used my PC for watching TV, but this spring - as I'd soon end up being sent a bill, anyway, for the privilege of owning a PC with internet connection, I might as well get myself a TV set. So, I did. It's here now, I remember to switch it on once a week, possibly once every 2 weeks just to see if it's still working. It does, it's a nice TV, but I don't watch the cr** shown on it...

I do, however, pay £272 a year for nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 12:47 PM

Read 'em and weep

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 12:43 PM

Hey, I'm curious- what is this "TV licence"? And further: "Color TV licence"?

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: Girl Friday
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 10:21 AM

I think that the government are taking advantage of the fact that many of us switched from dial up to broadband. I did this because of the horrendous phone bill I was getting, plus the slowness of dial up. I am with o2, and because my mobile is o2, provided I top up regularly I get the broadband for half price. I will not use the mobile broadband because pay as you go eats money too. Old technology works fine for me. It is the government that wants us not to be Luddites, so they have seen another opportunity for direct taxation. It was inevitable, so we shall have to cough up. At least it is a small amount (at the moment, that is). Look how the TV licence has increased since colour was introduced.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 09:04 AM

A colour licence costs ... a black-and-white ...

Has anyone suggested a High Definition licence yet?


(hides quickly)

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 07:59 AM

For those in other countries.
A colour TV Licence costs £142.50. A black and white TV Licence costs £48.00. Per annum.

JM

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 07:25 AM

The BBC licence fee would be additional to what you already pay.

JM

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 06:14 AM

"2Mbit/s links to every home in the country"

I think Slovakia - yes Slovakia has 100Mbit/s available to much of their country!

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 02:54 AM

OK, let's get down to Brass Tacks.

The Brass Tax the Govt will be bringing in ...

(ATTR)

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 09:19 PM

"He will now be responsible for bringing in the controversial "broadband tax" of a 50p per month levy on telephone lines to help pay for the rollout of high-speed, fibre-based broadband services, as well as overseeing the universal service commitment that will deliver 2Mbit/s links to every home in the country."

Doesn't sound too bad (?)

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 06:54 PM

If you have a modern computer with good broadband, in effect you have a TV set withn bells on.

And the amount you are paying for that broadband is a lot more than you pay for a TV licence.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 06:03 PM

I know that Kevin, the fact remains, if you have an appliance, capable of receiving BBC programmes. then you MUST pay a TV licence, so it's blackmail. You pay whether you watch or whether you don't.
Don't you understand that som epeople want nothing to do with TV, but may own a computer.
Leadfingers has no TV, nor does he want one, ask him.

JM

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 05:09 PM

We've virtually reached a situation where the distinction between a TV and a PC ceases to exist. It's just a matter of what you choose to do with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 05:09 PM

It's probably been mentioned before but wasn't Gordon Browne very keen on having computer access available for every child so that they could use the net to develop their study skills. This tax would seem to be a de-incentive to that happening.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 04:29 PM

Just because you have a PC in your house, doesn't mean you want to watch TV, does it.
Some people don't want TV, so should we force it on them, just so we can rip them off for a TV licence?

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 04:15 PM

Well, last week my evening download speed for Bit Torrent was up to 10 KB/sec. On Friday my free British Telecom I-plate was delivered which I installed on Friday evening. As I type, I am downloading a Soft Machine recording from the mixing desk in 1974 at between 130 and 260 KB/sec, so the broadband tax is worth every penny.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 06:43 PM

That's assuming "everyone being able to receive decent speeds, which is necessary to watch TV programmes on your PC", which is part of the envisaged deal.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 06:40 PM

They might not think they have TV in their house. But the truth is, if you have a modern computer in your house, you have a TV in your house already.

It's a bit like not allowing beer in your house beacuse it's alcoholic, but you've got a biottle of gin on your sideboard.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 12:11 PM

None whatsoever, but there are still people, and I know a couple of them, who don't want, and won't have, TV in their house at any cost. It is unfair on them surely.

JM

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 11:59 AM

So when your computer comes all rigged out so that sit in have the TV act serve as your monitor, or sit at your desk and all the TTV programmes are available to match, what is the distinction?

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 11:02 AM

Unless you don't want or need to watch TV, Kevin

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 10:41 AM

That could be a fair deal.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 10:30 AM

They need to have everyone being able to receive decent speeds, which is necessary to watch TV programmes on your PC.
Then they can proceed with the next part of the plan, making everyone with a PC, pay a TV licence!
Don't scoff, it's been, or is being, done in other countries. I believe Denmark is trying to bring it in already.

JM

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 10:19 AM

This Government has been a disaster

True enough in many ways. But anyone who think that the Tories aren't going to be every bit as bad, and worse in a lots of ways, is off their trolley.

A right to broadband access needs to be written into law.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: LesB
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 05:26 AM

I may be missing something here, but as far as I know the only way I have of receiving broadband , is down the phone line.
We don't have access to cable (as far as I know) and I only have a PAYG mobile & can't afford to use it for the internet ( & those I know who use their phones find it takes ages & doesn't seem to access everything).
Mind you i'm not very mobile savvy.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: Paul Burke
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 05:05 AM

If it's used to upgrade rural and remote access to a reasonable speed, it could be a useful thing. But it won't be, it will be used to increase the existing fast urban services even further. Remember the internet is not entirely about spotty nerds downloading porn and blagged pop songs- it's also an essential business tool. The result will be an acceleration of rural suburbanisation as even more businesses move to the towns merely to survive. Fewer jobs for rural young, they are even less able to afford the house prices, more Chelsea tractors, villages dead during the day, shops and pubs close, end of community. It's already happening, but there aren't any votes in the countryside.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 04:34 AM

If it's a tax on all land lines (rather than broadband users in particular) then they should call it what it actually is, i.e: 'Land Line Tax'.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: GUEST,Marc the Lark
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 12:21 AM

I am sure this government has losted the plot !! If they get elected again I will eat my telephone for sure
This is one hair brain idea and the money it generates is like chicken feed and the money will get lost in the system never to be seen again and thats a fact ...I suppose they will be handing out grants to companies to dig up our roads again but the super highway speeds will not reach rural areas because the costs will not be justified ...Its beyond belief to be quiet honest and I am lost for words and this kind of proposal makes Labour unelectable when you add in M.P expenses,Spending billions to save the banks and Blah,Blah the Iraq war and GBroon selling off our Gold reserve on the cheap ..This Government has been a disaster ...We are in debt big time and they want to tax our telephone ...next they will be taxing our Dyson or our lawnmower or the Wii and lets get them voted out and shipped off to another country like Scotland but the Scottish dont want them but maybe Gbroon can go off to Africa and sort out there economies with his magic touch!!

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 01:20 PM

Raising the money from people who use computers would make much more sense than doing it from people who use telephones. Raising the VAT on computers and computer equipment to say 20% instead of 17 1/2 % would be another way.

But doing it thtrough income tax would be better to my mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 09:32 AM

As a dial-upper I say tax the user. Tax the broadbandit. Parkinson's Law applies to any commodity as well as time. Make something more expensive and the market decides. Make it cheap and "the volume expands to fill the capacity allocated".

When will the last 10% of homes get even a chance of broadband?

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: GUEST,eric the viking
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 10:03 AM

Stinks..............my inlaws only rarely use the phone, they have no computer. Up here on Orkney we have shiity speeds and the tax will not improve our speeds. Does this government ever want to get elected again? They have destroyed the trust of working people everywhere. And I thought Thatcher was bad enough !! MCGrath has hit the nail on the head about the rich, but shouldn't give the bastards the idea of a licence fee to own a computer. It will lead to even more people becoming "criminals".

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 09:39 AM

It's silly but pretty trivial. £6 a year? About a penny ha'penny a day? Hardly worth changing your way of doing things to avoid it.

The real scandal in all this is the way genuinely rich people get away with ripping us all off, and there is no prospect that a Tory governmment is going to do anything about that, except help them get away with it even more than New Labour has.

A much more logical way of raising the money to improve broadband would have been to introduce a licence fee on computers analogous to the TV licence.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 08:48 AM

Of course it will get lost in the great black hole normally dignified with the name "Treasury" (actually Gordon's campaign fund), but I think they are in for a shock. After all, the answer to it is already out there.

Look for a sudden increase in the uptake of:-

1). WiFi
2). Mobile broadband
3). Skype, and other VOIP.

Look also for news of a puzzled BT, asking why the government has decided to bankrupt their domestic trade, as they lose 60% of their fixed line customers to Sky, Virgin and VOIP.

New labour are salting away huge new borrowing, and stealth tax increases, so that they can have a bargain basement giveaway just short of the election.

Desperation rules!

But it's too transparent, too little, and TOO BLOODY LATE.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 08:34 AM

What UK TV Tax? It is a licence fee, that licenses the user to use certain types of telecommunications equipment. Governments have ALWAYS controlled the use of telecommunication bandwidth, principally because the transmission of information can have military uses.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 08:16 AM

>>in order to fund improvements to that service<<

Now there is the crux of the matter. Will they, or is this another tax that gets lost in that big slush fund pot, that nobody ever sees again.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: artbrooks
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 07:35 AM

Well, I know that this will get an immediate response (from those who resent being called Yank Bashers), and I am perfectly aware that the US taxes stupid things, but this seems very consistent with the UK's TV tax. That is, the powers-that-be are taxing an easily-identifiable set of users of a service in order to fund improvements to that service, whether or not those taxed ever use or intend to use the added features.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 07:27 AM

The problem isn't us having to pay up so that we have a decent broadband system that reaches people in rural areas - after all that helps people living in towns as well, since we want to be able to keep in touch with them and with their websites and so forth. It's this arbitrary way of doing it, which is just silly, and means a fair number of the heaviest internet users won't be paying their share, since they've given up having landlines. Or will be prompted to give them up by this

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 07:12 AM

Ah well, more power to Richard Branson. Mind you, I don't expect anyone with Virgin Broadband and a mobile will be exempt for long...

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 07:07 AM

And , of course , anyone with Broadband will be watching television on line as well , so there will be an element of TV licence added next !

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 04:56 AM

The trouble is that it won't end with broadband tax. It could get sillier and sillier. The government may decide that they want a next generation fund for water and energy conservation and then anybody having a washing machine (even if it sits in the garage unused) will be taxed.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 04:26 AM

Just pay up, grin and bear it. You know it makes sense. It won't get squandered. Poeple like me who live in a rural area, might just get the very fast lines available that Cities are getting. OK I can dream now the tax has come in.

Gordon Brown is so unpopular, even Obama doesn't want to know him. Bigger and deeper bags under the eyes for Gordon me thinks. http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2008/10/10/bags-under-browns-eyes-sink-to-new-low-383/

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: Stu
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 03:42 AM

We should levy an 'Arse Tax' and generate some income from the politicians that talk out of theirs.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 08:43 PM

Window tax will be brought back before long, that'll be a pane in the glass too.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: Leadfingers
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 08:08 PM

Its a Crying Shame that most of the Political Parties that still espouse ANY kind of Socialism are on the Lunatic Fringe !

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 07:00 PM

..... but only what I'd expect from this government!

Subject: RE: BS: Broadband Tax... UK
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 06:55 PM

A lot of people who have landlines use those because they can't afford mobile phones but need to be able to keep in touch with others; they don't necessarily use the internet. This idea is stupid and unfair.