Bible prophecy

Subject: Bible prophecy
From: hidigibaugh
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 04:42 PM

Since God ( who created time ) stands apart from time and views the beginning as well as the end all in one glance ( beyond human comprehension ) I find it interesting to consider the claims in the scripture concerning what has yet to happen .. we know that some day Antichrist will appear .. but how close could he be ? .. what does the bible claim about the characteristics of mankind in the latter days ? .. are we close to obtaining the knowledge the power and the will of placing a mark on every human being ? I would like to invite the comments and speculations of those who believe the scriptures . . . . . with ears to the ground and eyes to the sky . . . I am so much anticipating this blessed promise .. although I am not excited of what lies just ahead .. the seven years of tribulation .. but I think the rapture might occur before that event . . . anyhow .. I do ramble on . . . . the ball is in your court

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:01 PM

this belongs in the BS section because it most assuredly is supreme bullshit.

humankind has created his own tribulation just as he created a god to blame it on.

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Paul Burke
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:04 PM

Qishing the end of the world, and lots of people sent to eternal torment.

BS.

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: hidigibaugh
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:04 PM

"humankind has created his own tribulation" . . . this is true .. but you aint seen nothin yet .. peace

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:05 PM

millions of people long for eternal life, who do not know what to do with a rainy weekend.


by which I mean I deeply believe that the concern of the end times and the latter days are one of the great wastes of time of mankind. Very very similar to reading the people magazines and watching the entertainment tonite programs.


On one extreme we've got stuff that doesn't matter about people who don't know me.
At the other extreme we've got tales of the gods and their strivings and score settlings which likewise do not concern me.

The hard job of life is exercizing what minimal controls I have over my own life, and trying to be an adequate friend and relative to those folks who do know me and I'd like to have the good opinions of.

So go enjoy the hell out of your rapture, I understand it's gonna be a real hoot.

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: hidigibaugh
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:06 PM

"(W) Qishing the end of the world," . . . please explain

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: hidigibaugh
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:07 PM

notice ladies and gentlemen how these folk are full of hatred .. all mouth and no ear . . . typical

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:10 PM

You make me tired. Find a religious forum. Go away.

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Tunesmith
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:11 PM

You're all mouth and no brain!

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: hidigibaugh
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:11 PM

"You make me tired. Find a religious forum. Go away"

why do you fear me ??

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: hidigibaugh
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:13 PM

"You're all mouth and no brain"

why do you say so . . . I'm curious

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: hidigibaugh
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:16 PM

"humankind has created his own tribulation just as he created a god to blame it on"

So what do you believe I blame God for ??

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Tunesmith
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:17 PM

No you're not! You're just trying to get a debate going, but I haven't the desire to discuss fairy tales.

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: hidigibaugh
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:22 PM

"No you're not! You're just trying to get a debate going, but I haven't the desire to discuss fairy tales."

well .. then go to another thread .. I did'nt drag you here

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: hidigibaugh
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:24 PM

peace to all who post ( in a positive mannor ) REAL ANSWERS

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:26 PM

I am not full of hate. Far from it. But I do fear extremism. Social groups, governments and individuals, hurt, maim, use, kill their fellow human beings in the name of religion. At the very least they exclude others not like themselves and that is a psychic and spiritual murder.

I used to be one of the blind and intolerant masses, believing in and spouting scripture until I got a wake up call. A long hard time of self-reflection and not liking what I saw. I am now a recovering baptist. I won't fall off the wagon and back into the pew, I can tell you.

For your information, there is no torment like losing a child. The fire and brimstone of the biblical hell would be a nice distraction from the pain I am in.

Now talk about music or bugger off to the BS section.

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: hidigibaugh
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:31 PM

I foun this to be very interesting ..

Matthew 24:
03 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. Tell us, they said, when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?
04 Jesus answered: Watch out that no-one deceives you.
05 For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.
06 You will hear of wars and rumours of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.
07 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
08 All these are the beginning of birth-pains.
09 Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.

a centry of quakes

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: hidigibaugh
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:34 PM

Look .. I don't mean to antagonize anyone here .. just a discussion

PS: I am very sorry for your loss

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: hidigibaugh
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:38 PM

I have 3 sons .. 21 - 19 and 17 . . . The greatest pain I could ever imagine would be to loose one of them

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:40 PM

Look guys, when the Jehovah's Witnesses knock on your door, you don't answer; right!

Do the same here.

JM

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:44 PM

So, who's gonna BURN in this brilliant blessing? Any of those fundamentalist American Christians out there who preach hatred, and want God to smash in the face of the American President etc. going to be purged? Or is it only going to be all the peaceful and loving Buddhists, Sufi's and Hari Krisna's et al burning in molten blood and stuff?

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:45 PM

Let he who has eyes to see , see...... and he who has ears to hear, hear....... understanding only comes from being involved... being there.... being a part of what is truth. Many choose not to be a part of it because of their own understanding or lack of it!!!!..... The Bible does point to the happenings which signal the "End Times" and some of these are indicated in hidigibaughs post at 05.31....... Even when confronted with the truth there are those who ridicule it or try to discredit it..... Everyone makes their own choices in life.... There are still some on here who tried to ridicule my Christian belief when I first joined the 'Cat'.... Maybe they thought I was some sort of crank..... At the moment I am glad to be in Gods camp.... I truly believe the End times are here and am ready..... who else is???
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: hidigibaugh
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:51 PM

That would be the real issue ( when it's all said and done ) Who do we believe that Jesus is ?? . . . I believe that he is the Christ .. the only begotten Son of the one true and living God . . . . looking forward to his return . . . blessings to Mike

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:59 PM

Why is this in the music section? Far as I can see it ain't a discussion about music, unless someone's planning on pulling out the heavenly trumpets... is there such a thing as a religious troll?

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: GUEST,Bill D--still out of town
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 06:03 PM

hidi...you are new here. We do not DO this sort of ersatz 'discussion' on Mudcat. It is thinly disguised preaching.

"Since God ( who created time ) ... etc....this makes an assumption which is not shared by everyone.

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: TheSnail
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 06:13 PM

Prize the Lard!

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 06:16 PM

Did someone call for Trumpets and heavenly harps of infinite ecstasy*!?
Well synthasisers might sorta have to do, but hey we're no longer Medieavalists!
You know it makes sense!








*MDMA is an officially recommended safety measure, before exposing oneself to Christian folk rock.

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Lox
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 06:32 PM

The initial post is a question within the context of christian belief.

Looks to me like its aimed at christians.

It shouldn't be in the music section, but if any christians wish to contribute they shouldn't feel hindered by non-christians who aren't don't want to discuss an intra christianity issue.

I personally don't understnd it, but there you go. Good luck to those who do.

I would say that I understand Christianity to be a poor mans religion and therefore to intellectualize it is to miss the point.

Take care folks.

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Andrez
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 06:59 PM

Yes shift this rubbish off the music pages!!!!

But in the meantime I was inspired to track down a copy of one of my favourite books: Prophecy for Dummies. To give folks a feel for the tone I include the introduction below as well as a testimonial as to the value of the tome.

"Before I read this guide, I was a divorced, homeless teacher's aide. Since then, I've gotten
spectacular wealth, resounding fame, and a hot new wife the likes of which I couldn't dream of. Just look at me now! Thank you, Prophecy for Dummies!" - One of many satisfied readers"


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Prophecy for Dummies by Allan Glenn [v.1.9.3; Last updated June 4, 2004]

Moses, Elisha, Zoroaster, Orpheus, Muhammad, Jesus Christ, Alexander of Abonutichus, Nostradamus, Joseph Smith, Baha'u'llah, Edgar Cayce, Sylvia Browne... Have you ever wondered how some of these and other legendary figures gained their reputation and followers? More importantly, would you like to follow in their footsteps and preserve your
name for future generations to revere? Do you want worship, power, wealth, the ability to amaze friends, family and attractive females with psychic insights? (Come now; who doesn't?

!) With those goals in mind, close the door, shut the blinds, light 12 candles, turn out the lights, and read on to understand arcane secrets of the universe that will grant you supernatural insight into the future.

This guide, Prophecy for Dummies, is a simple, concise and effective resource for jump-starting your religion, gaining or adding to your mythical reputation, obtaining additional followers, and many other worthwhile goals. It lists all of the major ways that preternatural knowledge of future events can be obtained in a detailed and easily
understood fashion. No longer will you need a lengthy and exhausting initiation into a mystery religion or years of apprenticeship under a veteran Prophet. Many have found going out on their own a liberating and rewarding experience; with thorough knowledge of the ways of the Prophet, and hopefully a bit of luck, so will you.

Disclaimer: This is a guide for beginning and intermediate Prophets. You may be a complete newbie, or merely need some brushing-up on your prophetic skills. While these esoteric techniques and helpful tips are time-tested classics, you agree that they're carried out entirely at your own risk.

The author of this webpage will bear no responsibility for any mundane negative consequences (lynching, stoning, crucifixion) or otherworldly wrath (demonic possession, curses laid by competing Prophets, Hell, etc.) of any type incurred as a result of following this guide. If you do not accept this disclaimer, please close the webpage now. Otherwise, read on for the hidden mysteries of Prophecy....

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The author Allen Glenn (WinAce) sadly died of cystic fibrosis a few years ago. Here is a link telling a little more about who he was. WinAce


I down loaded a copy around that time. If anyone wants to PM me with a real email address I'll happily forward a copy of the compete pdf file.

More importantly though is there anyone out there who would like to host a copy of Prophecy for Dummies on their own website so the info in PFD can keep getting out?

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: didn't mean to scare you
From: hidigibaugh
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 07:05 PM

sorry .. my bad .. it was my first thread .. I did't see how to place the thread in the non-music section .. I'll re-create it there .. peace =:0]

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Peace
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 07:28 PM

Well, this ol' boy ain't gonna trash your views hidigibaugh. Very very good friend named GeorgianSilver has spent hours at various times keeping my spirits up and he's a believer like you. Cool by me.

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 07:43 PM

A believer in what, anything at all, or are there some sort of criteria for reasonabl beliefs?

Subject: children of God
From: hidigibaugh
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 07:51 PM

QUOTE = Very very good friend named GeorgianSilver has spent hours at various times keeping my spirits up and he's a believer like you. Cool by me.

COMMENT = Right-on brothers .. right-on

QUOTE = A believer in what, anything at all, or are there some sort of criteria for reasonabl beliefs?

COMMENT = more reasonable criteria than I'll ever be able to deal with in this life-time . . . maybe that is why God gave us eternity

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Janie
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 08:22 PM

hidigibaugh, I see you just joined Mudcat late this afternoon, with your first post being to the thread on the radical religious right, and all other posts to this thread which you started.

I don't trash your beliefs either, but if you had a done of search of threads, you would have found there have been threads going back for years and years of this same ilk, and they nearly always turn into food fights. This, in my opinion, is because so many people, whether people of faith or not, fail to distinquish between belief and objective fact in the manner in which they express themselves. I see that you are following in that pattern. And I am assuming you are unaware of how many times we in this community have been around this circle.

What this international community has in common is a love of folk, traditional, and blues music. It is the glue that holds us together. Beyond that, while a majority of us are politically liberal, with a few conservatives and a generous smattering of libertarians, we hold views regarding faith and/or religion, and just about anything else that people have opinions or beliefs about, that run the full spectrum.

I am assuming that since this is a folk music site that you would not have joined unless you also share that overriding interest, and have not joined primarily for the purpose of proselytizing. And since that is my assumption, I look forward to reading your posts to issues related to music and folklore.

I am aware I am making a lot of assumptions, but I think it good to give people the benefit of doubt.

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: hidigibaugh
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 08:32 PM

Dear Janie .. well .. when I came here .. I notice your thread about the religious right .. basically noting but trashing Christians and people of faith .. if you want to discourage this kind of discussion .. maybe you should start with them ?? .. I am not here attempting to trash anyones belief .. simply to defend my own . . . peace

as you can see .. I would continue and discussion in your non-music section . . . this will all for me in this section .. thank you very much .. hidigibaugh !!!

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: hidigibaugh
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 08:47 PM

this thread should be deleted =:0]

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Janie
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 08:49 PM

Actually, hidigibaugh, I did not start, nor have I posted to the aforementioned thread.

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Janie
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 08:51 PM

The mods have cleaned things up now, h. Your second, duplicate thread has been deleted.

Takes awhile to figure out how things work, eh?

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 08:54 PM

hidigibaugh, I deleted your duplicate thread. It is not necessary to start a new one. All that needed to be done was for one us moderators to be alerted so we could move it to the BS section. One of the members let me know, so I moved your original thread to this section as you will see whilst reading this.

I might say that I think you may have missed some of Janie's point and that is, first and foremost, we are a community of folk and blues music lovers/musicians/singers. We have an occasional melee over all manner of subjects in the BS section, but you will find 1) you will have more credence if you have been here long enough to get your feet wet before starting a controversial thread such as this and, 2)let us know how you may relate to the rest of us, music-wise.

Otherwise, if you are trolling the internet just looking for places to post defending your choice of religion, I'd say you might want to go elsewhere...perhaps you should check out www.belief.net.

kat, mod

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 08:58 PM

Which Bible???????????????

There are thousands of different texts and versions despite the warning at the the end of Eziecal that no one shall make a copy of the Bible that has any additions or deletions from the original Bible.

That decree has been broken a million times over.

There is now an official Conservative Bible in which rich men do pass through the eye of the needle. The rich do inherit the Earth.

Frankly some parts of Palins book sound like an addition to the new testament. Speakin fer God is not just a prechers job doncha know.

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 09:32 PM

hidigibaugh - You have just stepped into the lion's den! ;-) Or the hallowed halls of the Inquisition, perhaps...you DARED to post some religious stuff here that a lot of people here disagree with. Oooo-weee! Big fuss going on!

Well, I may not agree with all your ideas...and I may not belong to your particular form of faith...but I'm not threatened in the least by calmly discussing it with you nor do I feel that this is an opportunity to prove how "bad" you are by deluging you in insults and demands that you not post here.

My, my. What a terrible fuss it is when an "outsider" steps in.

I will now give you my best answers I can come up with to your initial post:

"Since God ( who created time ) stands apart from time and views the beginning as well as the end all in one glance..."

Hmm. Well, yes, if there IS a God in the sense that you mean it when you use that word, then he (or she) would indeed stand apart from time. At least I think so. And he (or she) (or it) would view the beginning as well as the end all in one glance...so to speak.

But I don't know if there is an individualized divine being like that whom one could call "God". There may be. Many people think so. I'm not saying there isn't. I just don't know for sure. There might be an overall system of divine being out there...or intelligence...but if so, is it individualized in that fashion? I don't know. I think there's something that gives the Universe coherence and meaning all right, but I don't know if it fits the traditional Christian idea of "God".

Okay, let's move on from there...

*** "I find it interesting to consider the claims in the scripture concerning what has yet to happen .. ***

So do I. But I don't know if that scripture is literally true...or symbolically true...or whatever. I don't know if it's partially true and partially not, nor do I know if it was intended for the presnt time, an earlier time, or a time far in the future...or all three. I also find Buddhist scripture and Hindu scripture and various other scriptures equally interesting...if not moreso...and again...I don't know if there are wholly true, partly true, or what time period they allude to.

*** "we know that some day Antichrist will appear" ***

Do we? I don't think so. We may think we know that, because we've read it somewhere in some holy book. It may be true, it may not be. It's an interesting idea.

*** "but how close could he be ?" ***

That's difficult to say. I see no way of being sure about it.

*** ".. what does the bible claim about the characteristics of mankind in the latter days ? ***

I've read the scripture you refer to about that. It refers to a decadent time in society...and that time could well be the present. It could also. however, be at a great many other times in the past recorded history, because there have been a whole series of declines into decadence in various great societies of the past 2,000 years. It could also be in some distant future. Hard to say.

*** ".. are we close to obtaining the knowledge the power and the will of placing a mark on every human being ?"

Yes we are. At least we are in the developed societies. It could be done by very tiny microchip implants, for instance. It could be done in a number of ways. There's no way it would reach every single human being on this planet because there are natives in jungles whom it wouldn't reach and other people in remote areas like that, but it could certainly reach the vast majority of citizens in the developed countries of the world.

*** "I would like to invite the comments and speculations of those who believe the scriptures . . . . ."

I don't necessarily believe them in their entirety. Neither do I necessarily deny them. I give them due consideration and am interested in different interpretations...just as I am interested in the Buddhist scriptures, the Hindu scriptures, the Sufi philosophy, the Mayan predictions, the Hopi prophecies, etc.

I find it all interesting. I look for correlations and similarities where they can be found. If one is searching out a diamond, one looks under every available stone, not just under the single stone one was told about by one's parents or one's cultural peer group.










"

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: hidigibaugh
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 09:44 PM

boy .. he sure told me .. didn't he . . . sheeesh !!

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Janie
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 09:45 PM

Thoughtful post, LH.

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Janie
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 09:52 PM

Huh? Are you responding to Little Hawk's post, hidigibaugh?

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 10:59 PM

Regarding interpretations of the Bible...there are a great many of those. It depends on which Christians you talk to about it. Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, do not believe Jesus was crucified on a cross! They think he was impaled on a wooden stake. If you read their Bible, you will find that the ancient writings (whether in Greek or Hebrew) have been translated by the elders of the Jehovah's Witnesses in such a way that there is no mention of Christ being crucified, but there is mention of him being "impaled"...on a stake. They also do not believe at all in the Trinity, but they do believe Jesus died as a ransom for the sins of humanity.

This is quite unusual. But the JV's are just as sure their translation is correct as any other Christians are. And I'm sure they are quite sincere in their belief.

Then there is also much evidence that the original Bible writings were edited and changed by the bishops in Constantinople. They edited out the stuff they didn't like and put in new stuff, and they had various political reasons for doing so.

Accordingly, the modern Bible is neither complete nor is it an entirely accurate translation of the original writings.

If one directly experiences something profoundly spiritual, however, (and I know people who have...) that weighs a lot stronger than a 2,000-year-old bunch of edited books and learned doctrine, let me tell you! Nothing speaks more powerfully to a person's core beliefs than direct experience.

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 11:07 PM

Hidigbaugh,

I think you answered your question in your first post - any answer would be sheer speculation, and what good is that? People come up with all sorts of weird extrapolations from the Book of Revelation. Jesus said you know neither the day nor the hour (Mt. 25:13), and I think that means we shouldn't concern ourselves with speculation and extrapolation. As Jesus says in Matthew 25, we should concern ourselves with feeding the hungry and clothing the naked.

I believe the day will come when it comes, and it will be good. For now, I live a good life and try not to concern myself with the future.

We don't have a rule against this sort of thread, so I won't delete it unless it gets nasty. However, I think it is impolite of you to come in today as a new member and right away start spouting off about religion in very sectarian terms. Our threads are supposed to be open discussions for all members of our community, and your thread excludes the great majority of the established members of our community. Please don't start any more religion threads.

-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 11:12 PM

Oh, here's another belief held by the JV's. They do not believe that "Hell" is anything but "the grave". Why? Well, the Hebrew word "sheol" is used in the Bible to mean "hell", and the JV's scholars say that that word simply means "the grave".

They think that a limited number of very good people will go into heaven to be with God when the present system in the world ends...I believe it's 144,000 who will presumably do that. They think that many millions of other good people will get to live an eternal life in perfectly healthy and young physical bodies on a planet Earth which has been transformed into a paradise with no war, no poverty, no aging, no suffering, and so on.

As for those who don't make it, they will simply rest in the grave. No punishment. No consciousness at all. Just lying in their graves.

Again, the JV's are notably different from a great many other Christians in having such beliefs.

I find it all quite interesting, although I don't really share their views on any of it.

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 11:23 PM

So, Little Hawk, who are these JV's you're talking about - Jehovah's Vitnesses?
America wants to know.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Bible prophecy
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 11:29 PM

The only time rapture is mentioned in the Bible was in reference to having sex.

Rapture is a recent evangelical cult invention.

Only a troll would present a compendium of biblical falsehoods but people like that kind of entertainment from time to time.

Now how about the chapter in the bible that speaks of our precious bodily fluids? Or was that a section in the Palin book?

Subject: whadever
From: hidigibaugh
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 11:33 PM

my mama told me . . . never argue with crazy people