BS: World Cup 2010

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 11:56 AM

The upset of the competition so far.

Spain 0 Switzerland 1

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 01:16 PM

Spain never took the Swiss seriously til it was over.....and maybe not even then! That team acted as if they were "owed" a win simply because they are Spain and they showed up. I love it when an underdog kicks ass in any sport and this was a great example!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: gnu
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 01:19 PM

RATS!!! I couldn't watch it! I would have dearly loved to see it!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: romanyman
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 01:36 PM

dont understand how the world can go mad over twenty two so called grown men kicking a ball about, and getting paid huge amounts for the pleasure of it,

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 02:02 PM

"... grown men kicking a ball about..."

Perhaps so the grown men will have an excuse to kick each other about before & after the match. (well...'some' countries)

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: gnu
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 03:23 PM

Well... THAT shut the damn horns up for a tad.

As far as "going mad"... it's a sport. Too bad you were never allowed the thrill of succeeding at physical prowess or being part of a team the did.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: Wolfgang
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 03:48 PM

Lox,

outside of football I might take offence, but football lives (not only but a bit) from national cliches. These comments are very mild compared to what e.g. a Dutchman might say or what we might say about Dutch football.
An example: What is one of the really good things about global warming? Answer: The football WC will always be played without Holland.
Not too nice as well, but we'd be on their side if it was (or will be) a real threat.

My personal favourite is Spain. They have a very good team. After today, I think whether I have to change that prediction. Not yet, I still think they can beat each other team.

I don't see Germany as winner. They have a truly good attack, but a weak defense and that will show against stronger teams (especially if they play quick passes, like e.g. Spain does). We have sent the youngest team since the 1930s and more than half of our players have less than 10 nominations.

In addition to that one could expect the German team to have a goalie of extraclass since at least 1970 as sure as one could expect England to nominate a weak goalie since after the great Gordon Banks. But this time we come with the goalie who would have been considered number 4 some months ago. But suicide and injury have made him the present number 1. He is too young and good for a greater blunder in one of two or three games.

However I expect that one German record will stand. Germany is the only team that has never been eliminated in the first round of a WC. Even the mostly beter than Germany Brazil has been eliminated in the first round once, in England in 1966.

My before the start prediction for Germany was that they'll fly home after the fourth game. I'm not yet ready to change this.

Some German commentaries say that Ballack's injury is the deeper reason why the team did play so well in the first game. If only we could convince the coach to leave out Klose as well...

BTW, a mathematical "proof", that Germany will win: Germany won in 1954, 1974, 1990. 1990 + 1974 - 1954 = 2010. There you are!
Well, last time, the formula was '54x'74-1990 = 2006. And of course, for the next time, if math does fail this time, the unbeatable formula is 1974 plus the digit sums of 1954 and 1990. 1974+19+21 = 2014. Convincing, isn't it? Given enough spare time, one could find a formula for each team's success.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: Arnie
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 06:04 AM

After last night, it looks like South Africa could be the first host nation team to go out at the group stage. That 3-0 defeat even shut up the vuvuzelas for a time. I read today that rioting has already broken out and various organisations in SA are starting to ask why some S Africans are still living on the street or in slums when billions of rand has been spent on the tournament. It has also not gone unnoticed in SA that FIFA are making millions out of this World Cup - it would be nice if they donated a good chunk of it to SA charities. Many tickets remain unsold for various reasons and it will be interesting to see what the support is like once SA are dumped out of the tournament.

On the subject of N.Korea - I still recall the name Pak Do Ik from the 1966 World Cup - don't know why but this name has just stuck in my memory since then!!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: MikeL2
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 10:13 AM

hi

With all of the first round of games played it now appears that the England performance against the USA was not too disappointing.

Teams like France,Italy and Spain struggled and did not perform to their ability either.

The only major side that appeared to play better than expected was Germany. And let's face it Australia are not yet a World side. Also they had to play for a long period with only ten men -without Cahill their best player.

The next games will be played differently - no playing to avoid losing - they all must play to win.

I don't know what team or tactics Capello will adopt but surely one must be one that allows Rooney to be brought into the game and not starved for long periods as happened last week.

Another problem was that England gave away possession too easily. In part this is due to the fact that Heskey is played up front with Rooney. Because of this England seemed be stuck in a mind set of knocking a long ball up to Heskey. While Heskey did not let England down, most of this play resulted in England losing possession. We have to play a passing game and bring Rooney's undoubted class into the equation. He should be in the middle trying to score, not taking throw ins on the halfway line !!

We have to win both games if only to shut Beckenbauer up.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: Roberto
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 10:34 AM

Arnie: "I still recall the name Pak Do Ik from the 1966 World Cup - don't know why but this name has just stuck in my memory since then!!".

The same happens to me, but I do know why. He was not a professional football player. None in the N. Korea team were, at least in 1966. He was a dentist. He scored the goal in the game against Italy: N.Corea 1-Italy 0. Italy was eliminated. I'm italian, and I was 11 in 1966. Of course I remember Pak Do Ik.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 11:27 AM

Wolfgang - thanks for your post above. I'm sure you knew that I intended no offence, and that my comments were a leg-pull of the kind that go on between sportsmen and supporters in changing-rooms and clubs' bars the world over. If, when I was a local league football and squash-player and competitive rower, I'd taken 'offence' every time someone took the piss, I'd have spent my entire life 'offended' in one way or another. But you and I both know how these things go and we are both big enough, mature enough, and good-looking enough to take a bit of ribbing without blubbering like a big daft kid.   :-) :-)

Thanks for your good-hearted response, Wolfgang, and good luck to your team in the competition - may the best team win.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 12:32 PM

We have certainly seen worse starts from an England team. The 1982 World Cup, which made Gary Lineker famous, began disastrously with defeat against Portugal and a dismal 1-1 draw against Iran, I believe. Italy played three awful draws in 1982 and then won it! The Brazilians of 1982 looked like sweeping all before them, with Zico, Socrates and Oscar all in their pomp. They went the way of many favourites.
At the moment Germany, Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil are all looking good. I agree with Wolfgang that the German defence may be vulnerable to technically superior sides, who pass the ball too quickly for them. However, I am glad Joachim Löw has stuck to his guns and played Podolski and Klose together. They were both second choices for their club sides this season and they scored five goals between them. However, I do not believe Germany has a better striking pair at the moment and they certainly looked up to the job on Sunday. I think Germany will easily beat England in the second round (if England make it) but that their quarter final opponents may know too much for them.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: Acorn4
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 04:19 PM

A few years back I wrote a song called "Why are we Crap at Cricket?" - a couple of weeks after I finished it we won the Ashes, and I had to bury the song for two years.

I'm hoping this song can win England the World Cup by a kind of "reverse psychology":-


Rose Scented Glasses

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: Les from Hull
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 04:20 PM

The French got a drubbing from the boys in green. Henri did not have a hand in this game!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 04:22 PM

What a wonderful match.

France 0 Mexico 2

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: gnu
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 04:30 PM

That was hard to watch. What an embarrassment for France. I would have never expected such sloppy play from them.

As for the "offside", if the attacker's foot is on the ground onside, does it matter if any part of his body is offside? That's how it works in North American football... where the feet (or other parts of the body) touch the ground.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 04:44 PM

I didn't think France were so bad. It was just one of those nights when it did not happen for them. Well done Mexico though. Uruguay looked good yesterday. I wonder if they will be Germany's opponents in the quarter final?

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 05:12 AM

The 2005 edition of the Laws of the Game included a new International Football Association Board decision that stated being " nearer to an opponent's goal line" meant that "any part of his head, body or feet is nearer to his opponents' goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent (the last opponent typically being the goalkeeper). The arms are not included in this definition."

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: Arnie
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 06:29 AM

Just read an online report that says Green is dropped for tonight's match and James will be between the sticks. Not sure how this news has leaked out, given that Capello refuses to name his team until 2hrs before the match. If this is true, then it won't do Green's confidence any good if we need him later on in the tournament. I'd like to see Defoe start up front tonight in place of Heskey to avoid this long-ball/loss of possession issue discussed above. Above all, we need a win!!!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 06:38 AM

Not sure how this news has leaked out

Easy - it's just a guess. Maybe it's true, maybe it isn't.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: Les from Hull
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 09:23 AM

And Germany missed a penalty - don't they ever practise them?

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 09:27 AM

Only when they're due to play England.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 09:51 AM

hi

Well well !!

France & Germany losing to supposed much weaker opposition.

France were just not up to play. There are obvious problems in the squad and with the Team Management. Their body language said it all.

Mexico although they had less possession looked far more dangerous when they did attack. Hernandez took his goal very well. As a Manchester United supporter it was nice to see - he joined us just before the end of the season.

Intriguingly now if Uruguay v Mexico is a draw they will both go through regardless of how France do against South Africa. Any bets on a draw here??

Germany did not have their own way against a determined but not very skilful Serbia. A sending off that looked a bit doubtful left Germany to play one man short. Shortly afterwards Serbia scored. After this, inexplicably Serbia retreated in defence and let Germany do all the pressing. This nearly came unstuck and only a bad penalty miss saved their faces.

With regard to tonight's England game I too heard that Green will not play and Heskey will. But this is just rumour. Capellow has not announced his team yet.

Surely England will get together and produce a performance like they did many times when qualifying.

As for the comment about England not beating Germany in the next round.....NEITHER team are sure to be there!!!

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 11:57 AM

hi

Phew !!!!!! USA 2 Slovenia 2

Best game in the series so far. Very thrilling USA down 2-0 and in my book should have won 3-2.
Referee made a completely wrong decision to rule out what was a perfectly good goal by USA.

England MUST win tonight.

Fingers crossed

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: alanabit
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 12:17 PM

Yes, the USA were robbed. Not only was a perfectly good goal disallowed, but even if the striker had missed, there was a blatant foul on Clint Dempsey, which should have seen a penalty and a card for the Serbian defender, who obviously does not know the difference between football and wrestling.
In the Germany match the referee seemed to believe that football is a non contact sport. Schweinsteiger was booked for a perfectly fair tackle and Phillip Lahm had a free kick awarded against him for another. Germany were effectively forbidden from tackling to get the ball.
I hope England do not get that referee. If we do, Steve Gerrard will be back in the changing room almost before he has left it!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 01:30 PM

Missed the USA game... drat.

Green is out...

http://www.fifa.com/live/competitions/worldcup/matchday=8/day=1/match=300061464/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: Roberto
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 01:38 PM

alanabit: the Serbian defender was ... Slovenian.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 01:44 PM

Oh, yeah... GO ENGLAND!!!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 02:21 PM

I reckon England need to win both games, or they could be out.

They will not know the result of the third match as they are playing at the same time.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 02:25 PM

From my observation in the last 2-3 cups, the Serbs and Slovenians seem to consider blatant fouls as a major part of their defense strategy.
We HAVE a form of football in the US where it's perfectly legal to grab certain players around the shoulders. Some of these guys are in the wrong sport.

*I* think there needs to be some sort of protest and/or replay allowed...at least for match deciding plays.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 02:41 PM

REfs need power in any game but the line of judgement is very thin. It seems that most sports need a kick in the ref every once in awhile. There have been a lot of questionable calls in the WC so far and some really bad ones as witnessed today with Germany and the USA.

Hopefully they'll put the refs on notice before this one goes too far astray.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 04:28 PM

Ouch, that was diabolical from England. Algeria worked hard and snuffed out England.

England's passing is just about the worst I have seen for a very long time.

Hello, where were Rooney, Gerrard & Lampard?

Words fail me. Maybe we have too much expectation for a team that promises a lot but very seldom deliver.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 04:36 PM

heskey was englands best player, at least he put some effort in, he is being criticised when others such as rooney were hopeless, capello is clueless.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: Bainbo
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 04:47 PM

Oh dear. Taxi for Mr Capello!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 04:53 PM

I agree Spaw... there is far too much "spread" on how refs ref a game. I was taken aback several times in The England game by the reffing.

Speaking of that game, I was VERY taken aback by the lack of coordination by England... perhaps I am missing sommat as I don't watch football a lot, but, it would seem to me that a team should play for the event of a cross field ball, intended or simply as a vent for control. Same problem with corners.

Algeria did it well and they also played their corners smartly while England played their corners as if they were playing with the same old ball... same with the strikes.

Seems to me England refuses to adapt to the new ball. If they don't do it soon, they will be toast.

Re the cross field play and corners, I think they need a Canuck hockey coach to teach them sommat about "covering the wing". The Algerians did it reasonably well but so many times the English were dispossessed of the ball because there was no backup on the wings.

And, some of the "stopping short" I saw by the "wingers" (sorry, I don't know the terms... forwards?) would earn them a spot on the bench in hockey. But, perhaps that's part of football of which I know not... some kind of defensive strategy where you are worried about being out of a defending position?

Seems odd to me but there it is... if you can't defend with one man less who could get back up the field if need be, you need to find players who can run a clip.

Or am I just a dumb Canuck who don't know shit about football?

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: alanabit
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 05:09 PM

There was so much wrong with England that it is hard to know where to start. If they can not play a lot better than that next time out we can hope that England go out quickly, quietly and embarrass us no longer! Rooney looked willing but either knackered or in pain. Maybe he will not be in the starting line up next game.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 05:15 PM

All England need to do is
(1) draw 4-4 with Slovenia with Algeria/USA scoring 0-0
(2) beat Slovenia with Algeria/USA being a draw
(3) beat Slovenia with Algeria beating USA
(4) beat Slovenia and if USA beats Algeria, and have a higher goal difference than one of the other two.


all easy really

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 05:33 PM

No sweat then!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 05:56 PM

All USA needs to do is score a couple of goals and beat Algeria....*grin*

Sure would be interesting to actually get somewhere for once.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: Tootler
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 06:09 PM

All England need to do is
(1) draw 4-4 with Slovenia with Algeria/USA scoring 0-0
(2) beat Slovenia with Algeria/USA being a draw
(3) beat Slovenia with Algeria beating USA
(4) beat Slovenia and if USA beats Algeria, and have a higher goal difference than one of the other two.

Which all adds up to:
England will be on the plane home as soon as their next game is over and their early exit will be thoroughly deserved. Maybe the football powers that be in England will start to recognise the reality after umpteen years, that we do not have the players to compete with the best in the world and start to address the fundamental failings in the game at home.

Dream on!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 06:23 PM

What puzzles me is why they have "a new ball" anyway, apart maybe from the look. The way the ball is built- weight and pressure and material - should be fixed permanently.

Of course if they'd done that to start with they'd still be using leather balls the weight of a brick, which I suppose would cause a few problems, but there's no point in continuing to innovate by this time.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 06:26 PM

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: SPB-Cooperator - PM
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 05:15 PM

All England need to do is
(1) draw 4-4 with Slovenia with Algeria/USA scoring 0-0
(2) beat Slovenia with Algeria/USA being a draw
(3) beat Slovenia with Algeria beating USA
(4) beat Slovenia and if USA beats Algeria, and have a higher goal difference than one of the other two.


all easy really
it would be easy, if they had a decent manager and good enough players.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 06:36 PM

McGrath... the only reason I can see for a new ball is that the Africans have used it for several years and it is a disadvantage to all the teams who have played with the "official ball" for many more years.

In other words, can anyone profer another explanation?

Seriously... why change the ball?

I think the official ball should be written into the rule books and that be the end of it.

Oh, an the noise makers should be written OUT! Only human noises from now on. Imagine paying big coin for a seat and having some asshole blowing a horn or beating a drum next to you all game.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 08:02 PM

Which year was the England song 'Its Coming Home' ? I think it needs a Word change -- 'THEY're coming home' !

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 01:11 AM

it was jolly bad form by the other side not wanting to lose.......
its just not cricket old chaps!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: Bainbo
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 02:25 AM

Well, we still have one Englishman out there in South Africa capable of getting past defences. Sadly he's being sought by Fifa's security ...

Apparently ITV were flooded with complaints last night for not showing adverts over the game.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 03:24 AM

It's not that we have a bad manager. We have a set of players that do not know how to hold the ball and make passes tell.

We are used to the foriegn players doing that for us in the Premiership.

English players are used to kick and rush. It's exciting even if we don't always win.

Capello is trying to teach them to play a style of football that they are clearly not up to.

Sooooo .....

Lets get back to running your little legs off and playing the high ball game in the last match. Can't be any worse than the style of football they are trying to do at the moment.

Lets start with Rooney (assuming he is fit) and Crouch and just go for it. Crouch is the highest goalscorer for England. How many minutes has he played so far.

Could it just be that the English players are good when they are playing with intelligent foreign players that make them look good. When we put the English players together, they no longer have the brains of the team there. So they make a pass and think it's one of their foreign team mates......

Anyway, playing like last night, isn't going to win them friends.

I feel really sorry (or are they just stupid) for the fans that have spent a fortune to go and see them.

Ah well back to the next match with hope in our heart and expectations beyond our wildest dreams :-)

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: alanabit
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 03:56 AM

Last night they all looked tired and as if they needed a holiday. After the Slovenia match next week, that is what they are likely to get. I think Slovenia and the USA will go through as they deserve to. Good luck to both of them. England have looked like the weakest side in a group which they were supposed to cruise through.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 05:22 AM

The Ref involved with the bad call and other infractions in the USA game is undergoing an early scrutiny and may be headed for his own early dismissal from the WC........Story HERE


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2010
From: Arnie
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 05:51 AM

GSS - I know that Heskey worked his socks off last night, but to what effect? He needs to feed the ball to Rooney, and as Rooney was AWOL again, that strategy just didn't work. At least Crouch is a proven goal-scorer, and I'd start with him every time. James did well in goal, and we are now left to wonder what would have happened if he'd played against the USA - we may now have 4 pts instead of only 2. Rooney isn't going to last long against Slovenia - the first time they wrestle him to the ground he's going to retaliate and be red-carded. Still, we're not out of the competition yet, and there's always Euro 2012 to look forward to...