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BS: Is it time for a gay president?
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Subject: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: ichMael Date: 31 May 10 - 12:11 AM In light of recent revelations about Barack Obama's sexuality, do you think America's ready for a homosexual president? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Rapparee Date: 31 May 10 - 12:17 AM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 31 May 10 - 01:10 AM It's time to put a chimp in the White House. Vote for Chongo in 2012. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: mousethief Date: 31 May 10 - 02:11 AM I went to high school with a girl whose last name was Guay. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Backwoodsman Date: 31 May 10 - 02:32 AM I went to school with a girl whose first name was Gaye. She wasn't. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: gnu Date: 31 May 10 - 04:53 AM Does Gail count? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Rog Peek Date: 31 May 10 - 05:15 AM Obama always seems happy enough to me. Rog |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Rapparee Date: 31 May 10 - 09:49 AM I had a passel of neighbors named "Gay" -- Ed Gay, Bill Gay, Mary Gay.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ebbie Date: 31 May 10 - 10:54 AM I once lived on a cay. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: VirginiaTam Date: 31 May 10 - 11:03 AM somebody has too much time on his hands... maybe he should put that time and his hands to better use by actually wanking off instead of virtually wanking off. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Bonzo3legs Date: 31 May 10 - 11:27 AM No. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Bill D Date: 31 May 10 - 11:53 AM Did you know that entering Q33 NY in the Wingdings font reveals a combination of symbols that reflect the 2001 attack on the Twin Towers. Not only , that a verse in the Quran predicts US involvement in Iraq and that "eleven" is a number with special significance to 9/11 1) New York City has 11 letters 2) Afghanistan has 11 letters. 3) Ramsin Yuseb (The terrorist who threatened to destroy the Twin Towers in 1993) has 11 letters. 4) George W Bush has 11 letters. This could be a mere coincidence, but this gets more interesting: 1) New York is the 11th state. 2) The first plane crashing against the Twin Towers was flight number 11. 3) Flight 11 was carrying 92 passengers. 9 + 2 = 11 4) Flight 77 which also hit Twin Towers, was carrying 65 passengers. 6+5=11 5) The tragedy was on September 11, or 9/11 as it is now known. 9+1+1=11 6) The date is equal to the US emergency services telephone number 911. 9+1+1=11. Sheer coincidence..?! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: VirginiaTam Date: 31 May 10 - 12:03 PM you're havin a laugh.. wingdings.... a jet, 2 pieces of lined paper, a skull and cross bones and the 6 pointed star mean .... what? Shouldn't this be on the removing curse / superstitions thread? I am really confused. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Bill D Date: 31 May 10 - 12:09 PM (just another 'interesting' revelation to add to the series in that first post. You never know when all off-the-wall rumors and conspiracy theories will become linked in one "Unified Field of Balderdash" and all will become clear!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Amos Date: 31 May 10 - 12:28 PM Ichy should actually be posting to the Mother of all BS thread, but he wouldn't get past the doorman... A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ron Davies Date: 31 May 10 - 12:48 PM Did you know that GERITOL spelled backwards is LOTIREG? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: VirginiaTam Date: 31 May 10 - 12:52 PM good one Amos. Thanks BillD... good to know we have someone to look to when we aren't sure what is rot and piffle and what is not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Bill D Date: 31 May 10 - 12:54 PM spelled inside out is TOEGIRL. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Bill D Date: 31 May 10 - 12:58 PM In Italy, GERITOL tranlates to GOT LIRE. (You're welcome, VT... I try to do my part - ;>)...) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: kendall Date: 31 May 10 - 01:31 PM ...and that rhymes with P and that stands for pool! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Amos Date: 31 May 10 - 01:42 PM In Italy, GERITOL tranlates to GOT LIRE. Pedant alert: I think you men "transforms", Bill. In Italy "Geritol" probably translates into nothing except itself. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: John MacKenzie Date: 31 May 10 - 04:47 PM Nobody in Italy got lira now, they use the Euro! Trafalgar backwards, is raglafart. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 31 May 10 - 05:01 PM Well, lemme see, now. . . In 1963, I sang a couple of weekends at a coffeehouse in Bellingham, Washington. The first name of one of the owners of the place was "Gay." Short for "Gaylord," I think. I ran into him a few years later. He was now working at Boeing in Seattle. During the intervening years, he'd got married and had a couple of kids. Ironic, eh? I guess not. . . . Fuggitaboutit. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: gnu Date: 31 May 10 - 06:28 PM Johnny McEldoo for pres and McGee for VP. Ah, a gay ticket indeed! About time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: maple_leaf_boy Date: 31 May 10 - 07:55 PM Obama = gay? or maybe bi? Who really cares? I went to school with a an openly gay guy, and he didn't bother me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 31 May 10 - 07:59 PM Well, it's probably about time we have a gay president. Most of them have been gawdawful serious, and maybe it's time we had a comedian in that office. Or--wait a minute--is it possible that comedians in office have been the problem all along!?? I blame Jerry Falwell and Tinky-Winky for this!! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ebbie Date: 31 May 10 - 08:32 PM Let's not lose sight of the fact that there is absolutely NO evidence that our president is gay or bi- Ichy's vomitus has no factual content whatever. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Naemanson Date: 31 May 10 - 08:41 PM Gay, straight, male, female, black, Hispanic, etc., who the hell cares? Let's just get a good, intelligent person into the office. Obama's 8 years will not be enough to undo what the previous idiots have done to us. The last thing we should be concerned with is sexuality, religion, or anything else. We need a smart person with common sense and an ability to think on his/her feet. Consider, if we were the owners of businesses and we asked any of these questions of a potential employee we would face an immediate and well-deserved lawsuit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: ichMael Date: 31 May 10 - 08:51 PM I think that whether America accepts Obama as a homosexual will depend on whether he's viewed as an "Arthur" or a "Martha" (active or passive recipient). It should be pretty easy to present him as an Arthur at the Iowa caucus next time around, since he's known to enjoy being fellated by older white men, but I expect some confusion will arise over his involvement with Artur Davis. Even though Obama may be the Arthur in that relationship, will the average voter be able to get past the name/term confusion of Artur being a Martha? And what about Deval Patrick? A person would be hard pressed to tell from THIS photo which of the men is Arthur and which is Martha. Anyway, look for confusion at the next Iowa Caucus. Obama should probably supplement The Boss's music with something like AC/DC and hope that Democrats don't switch to a STRONG Arthur candidate like Hillary Clinton. Tramps like us Baby we were born to run |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: ichMael Date: 31 May 10 - 08:55 PM Damn. I think I got my Arthurs and Marthas mixed up. Here's a glossary of gay terms I stumbled across while looking into Obama's sexploits: http://www.mdolive.com/grab/printdoc.php?doc=queerlife_slang So, when Bill Frist is servicing Obama, who's the Arthur there? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ebbie Date: 31 May 10 - 09:27 PM lol I usually don't think a man's sexual bents are any of my business, ichy, but I'll make an exception in your case. In a sick kind of way you are very funny. I do think you need counseling though because you are obviously tormented. lol |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 31 May 10 - 10:03 PM ichMael seems to know a great deal about the--um--ins and outs of male homosexual activities. I wonder how and why. Could it be that he's. . . ? Inquiring minds want to know. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: LadyJean Date: 31 May 10 - 11:29 PM My first thought was, A gay president! Glenn Beck would have a coronary! My second thought was, Wow! Wouldn't that be great! OK, David Lloyd George was one of England's great prime ministers. David Lloyd George had difficulty keeping his pants buttoned. I have reason to bellieve he made a pass at my grandmother. (Alas, my father's mother, who wouldn't have thought it was funny.) That did not diminish his ability to lead his nation during a very difficult time. I do not give a damn who a politician is screwing as long as it isn't me!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: mousethief Date: 31 May 10 - 11:43 PM Obama = gay? or maybe bi? Who really cares? I went to school with an openly gay guy, and he didn't bother me. Are you ugly? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Backwoodsman Date: 01 Jun 10 - 08:45 AM I do not give a damn who a politician is screwing as long as it isn't me!!! Those fuckers screw us all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: MarkS Date: 01 Jun 10 - 09:14 AM Why not? Might be an improvement over what we have had for the last 25 years or so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,999 Date: 01 Jun 10 - 09:31 AM `Is it time for a gay president?` I don`t think Obama will change his sexual orientation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: John MacKenzie Date: 01 Jun 10 - 10:22 AM To answer the OP. Why? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,TIA Date: 01 Jun 10 - 10:29 AM Don't change the subject Ichy! Tell me about the trial of the centruy in Harlem. How did that work out? Links please.... Lots of them! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: VirginiaTam Date: 01 Jun 10 - 01:10 PM hey fishMail - If you sort Newark, what do you get? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: KB in Iowa Date: 01 Jun 10 - 02:18 PM Anyway, look for confusion at the next Iowa Caucus. No confusion here, icky. H*ll, Obama could marry Biden while they are here (assuming they both get divorced first), what a ticket that would make. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 01 Jun 10 - 03:06 PM Hey, no sweat. At least two members of the Washington State Legistlature are openly gay and they're two of the best of the bunch (although a batch of eastern Washington arch-conservatives don't necessarily think so). Save for a few issues such as domestic partnership legislation (upon which not that much time is spent), the vast majority of what they deal with has absolutely nothing to do with matters of sexuality. Hell, I don't care if they hump wildebeests while swinging on a trapeze as long as they do a good job when they're in the legislative chamber—or the Oval Office—and do a decent job of governing. "I'm Jewish, I'm left-handed, and I'm gay! So how bad can it get!??" —Barney Frank, Dem, Rep. Mass. Don Firth P. S. But—whatever turns your crank: CLICKY! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Amos Date: 01 Jun 10 - 03:18 PM Spaghetti Sauce 1 yellow onion 1 lb ground beef 1 green pepper 1/2 bunch celery 6-10 fresh chives 2 fresh medium-weight tomatoes 1 jar prefab spaghetti sauce Crumble ground beef into large frying pan and brown. Dice onions, chives, celery, tomatoes, green pepper into frying pan and allow to simmer. Add Italian spices (premixed) to taste. Add pre-fab spaghetti sauce. While simmering preparepasta (about 7 minutes from boiling point). Drain pasta and drown it in sauce. Serves anywhere from three to six depending on gluttony. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 01 Jun 10 - 03:43 PM I'm assuming that the wildebeest is consenting, of course. . . . Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Richard Bridge Date: 01 Jun 10 - 03:47 PM I think it would be a good idea. Unlike Amos's recipe. Never ever use premixed spices or herbs (and wehre are the basil and oregano?) Never ever use preprepared pasta (7 minutes) - use 11. Never ever use pre-fab-spagh sauce. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: VirginiaTam Date: 01 Jun 10 - 03:59 PM too much salt in processed sauces Amos.. what must your blood pressure be like? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: John MacKenzie Date: 01 Jun 10 - 04:05 PM Prefab |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: gnu Date: 01 Jun 10 - 04:52 PM As a gnu, I take affront to the idea of swinging on a trapeze. That is just sick. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: mousethief Date: 01 Jun 10 - 05:59 PM If we had a gay president, would his partner be the First Lad? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: John P Date: 01 Jun 10 - 06:17 PM Wow, ichmael is quite the sexual deviant, isn't he? So VERY interested in what other people are doing in bed! Or is it just that he's fascinated by the thought of homosexual sex? Is Mudcat ready for a repressed gay homo-basher? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 01 Jun 10 - 06:29 PM That's not important. But what IS important is this: Is Mudcat ready to put a chimpanzee in the White House? Vote Chongo in 2012. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: gnu Date: 01 Jun 10 - 06:35 PM John P... Don't be too hardon Her/Him. S/He just needs to come to grips with the real world. Of course, s/he may actually be an adult but just trolling. Seems to me Rapaire mentioned sommat to that effect. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River Date: 01 Jun 10 - 06:37 PM T'day's secont questian: How many boltholes does it take to fill the flippin' Albert Hall? - Shane |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Amos Date: 01 Jun 10 - 07:01 PM One3 , if it is big enough... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Joe Offer Date: 01 Jun 10 - 07:30 PM I'm miffed. Little Hawk expressed the feelings of many of us, that we need a chimpanzee in the White House, and nobody took that idea seriously... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 01 Jun 10 - 07:44 PM ""I'm miffed. Little Hawk expressed the feelings of many of us, that we need a chimpanzee in the White House, and nobody took that idea seriously..."" Possibly because the memory of the most recent ape in the White House is still too fresh. It's only a year since you got rid of it. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: John P Date: 01 Jun 10 - 07:48 PM I thought we put a chimp named Bonzo in the White House back in 1980. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: DougR Date: 01 Jun 10 - 08:41 PM Do you have anyone in particular in mind that could take over immediately? DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Jun 10 - 12:57 AM Yes!!! Chongo. Failing that...why not give William Shatner a shot at the job? He's a big man, after all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: mousethief Date: 02 Jun 10 - 01:29 AM Pity Charles Schulz died before he could run for president. Him, I would have voted for. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: VirginiaTam Date: 02 Jun 10 - 02:52 AM Pity Charles Schulz died before he could run for president. Him, I would have voted for. abso fekkin lutely |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: akenaton Date: 02 Jun 10 - 03:10 AM akenaton 1 DEC 2008 Being black doesn't necessarily make you a good or trustworthy person, you goons see a change of colour equating to a change of political direction......just imagine the liberal euphoria if Mr Obama was "gay" as well as "black".........welcome to X Factor politics folks!! I still think you can judge a man by the company he keeps and Mr Obama's company....or administration, will ensure no pesky change anytime soon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Stringsinger Date: 02 Jun 10 - 09:52 AM It's time for a rational president, period. Maybe a woman unless she's a Thatcher type. I don't think sexual orientation makes a difference in an executive position. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: mousethief Date: 02 Jun 10 - 11:56 AM Being black doesn't necessarily make you a good or trustworthy person Ya think? Golly, none of us ever thought of that. We all think black muggers (for example) are good and trustworthy. Also black drug dealers. Because we're as stupid as ake thinks we are. Does your ward nurse know you've hacked the floor's computer? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: frogprince Date: 02 Jun 10 - 12:24 PM Interesting; folks here, in large part, heeded the second post to the thread, "Don't feed the trolls", and the troll who started the thread hasn't been heard from again. Careful, guys, let's not slip into leaving snacks on the floor for him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Jun 10 - 12:26 PM He's not as stupid as you appear to think he is either. ;-) If you deliberately set about interpreting another person's point from the stupidest possible angle he could be coming fron, which is probably not the angle he's really coming from...then you'll make the mistake of assuming he's as stupid as you want him to be, in order that you can be "right" and he can be "wrong". You're assuming that Akenaton just did that to you. And then you're doing it back to him. The assumption is almost certainly incorrect in both cases. And if you took a minute to think about that, I'm sure you could figure it out yourself. After all, you're not stupid, right? His point is quite obvious....if one simply takes a little time to actually think about it, instead of just reacting against it with an immediate kneejerk counterattack. His point is worth considering. It's not all-embracing, but it is a relevant factor in the situation, as to a motivation some people do have for favoring Obama more than they might favor someone else, given the same set of outward conditions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Jun 10 - 12:27 PM (that was to Mousethief) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Jun 10 - 12:45 PM Obama's biggest problem, by the way, is simply this: He's the president of the USA. That's always a big problem for whoever takes on the job. Guaranteed trouble, and lots of it. I think Chongo is nuts for wanting to be the next president of the USA. ;-D I keep telling him to become a bar owner instead. I think he'd enjoy it more. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: mousethief Date: 02 Jun 10 - 01:15 PM His point is quite obvious That people really think Obama can't do wrong because he's black? Please. His obvious point is wrong. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: VirginiaTam Date: 02 Jun 10 - 01:25 PM Is Chongo a natural citizen of USA or is he one of them illegal immigrants pouring over the border from Canada? ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Jun 10 - 01:57 PM Tam - Chongo poured over the border from Africa. ;-) On a banana boat. In the 1920's. Mousethief - you're not even trying. His point is simply that many people are inclined to give Obama some extra support and some extra slack precisely because he is a Black man (and a very well spoken one), because it makes them feel good to do that....given the fact that they have spent most of their lives allied with and promoting the genuinely very good ideal of achieving racial equality in America. So they are inclined to overcompensate positively for a Black man in office in order to prove to themselves that they are living up to those ideals. They are reinforcing their old psychological behaviour patterns, and giving themselves a pat on the back for being so "non-racist". It IS a factor in their thinking, and it does influence them. It prejudices them favorably to support Obama. They give Obama MORE of a break than they would if he was White. They are, in this way, trying to compensate for the USA's past very bad record of slavery and racial discrimination. There are people who would do the same for a woman in office, merely because she was female. It's counterbalanced, of course, by people who ARE prejudiced against Blacks or against the idea of a female president...those people will attack Obama because he's Black, and they will put down a female candidate because she's female. In all of the above cases the people involved would be overcompensating and treating Obama (or a female president...or a gay president) quite differently than they would if he was your average regular "White guy" in office. That's what Akenaton was referring to, he was referring to (positive) prejudice based on racial profile as opposed to the much better publicized forms of negative prejudice based on racial profile. It cuts both ways. It's prejudice in both cases, because it's not a rational or unbiased judgement, it's a judgement based on old emotional habits of irrational favoritism or hostility. You're just being plain stubborn and obstinate if you can't see that that is Akenaton's real point. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: John P Date: 02 Jun 10 - 03:58 PM Do you really know anyone who likes Obama better because he's black? I know some black folks who are glad there's finally a black president, but it's more of a matter of the US finally getting over some of the historical prejudice. Obama still has to deliver. I would like to see a woman president, and I would like to see a gay president. This is because I dislike bigotry so much. But first and foremost, I would like to see a smart and capable president. That's the only criteria I go by. The same is true of everybody I've talked to about it. Saying that people like him better because he's black sounds like the crap the media pours over us all the time. LH, you have a sad tendency to let your philosophical generalities interrupt your contact with what's really going on with real people. So -- who have you talked to (other than possibly some outright racists) who pays more attention to Obama's blackness than they do to whether or not he's a good president? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:13 PM You have to understand Little Hawk. He sits cross-legged (lotus position, actually) in his monk's robes up there on top of a mountain in the Himalayas. The air gets pretty thin up there and he suffers from anoxia a lot. The fundamental assumption is that all us Muggles are stupid, incapable of thought, and generally brainwashed, so he has to step in from time to time to set us all straight. It's a mantra that starts out "Tsk tsk tsk. . . ." And then goes on from there. It allows him to feel a bit smug and superior, but he vociferously denies this, of course. Sort of "humbler than thou." You know, kind of a holdover from the Sixties. Alan Watts, Lao Tse, Swami Probablyabanana, that sort of thing. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: VirginiaTam Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:15 PM uh hello! what frogprince said... You can see by fishMail's posts on other threads that he is a shit stirrer. So don't be the shit. Don't give this thread any serious thought. Chongo's got my vote. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: John P Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:24 PM I've actually found this thread fairly interesting, in spite of the stupidity of how it started. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Smedley Date: 02 Jun 10 - 05:01 PM He wouldn't be the first. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Smedley Date: 02 Jun 10 - 05:04 PM Sorry, my post makes no sense!! I was replying to the last post on p.1 because I am an idiot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: VirginiaTam Date: 02 Jun 10 - 05:42 PM Smedley for president? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: gnu Date: 02 Jun 10 - 05:44 PM There are two ways to deal with a troll. Starvation is the best. Making fun of it sometimes works. This thread was doing pretty good at at the second option at times. Of course, if the thread develops into and interesting and informative discussion, all the better. Unfortunately, that is not the norm. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: akenaton Date: 02 Jun 10 - 06:08 PM I dont think the members of this forum really appreciate the perceptiveness of Little Hawk, once again he demonstrates his uncanny ability to grasp the meaning in everything we write. He can also recognise bullshit at long range.:0) Very many people, not only in America, saw the election of a "black" man as part and parcel of the great social/economic change which was about to be affected. Some see the election of a "black" man, a woman, a homosexual, as an end in itself, though none of them guarantee change of any kind. That cult of personality is another tactic to avoid change, not encourage it. The real all consuming question, of how we are to survive in a world which is fast leaving us behind, is being covered in steaming piles of trivia. Mr Obama always spoke in the voice of a traditional US politician, his colour , gender, or sexual preferance would make no difference to what he is ......a tool of the system.....Mr Obama is tinkering with the plumbing(for as long as he is permitted), but the great shithouse keeps on functioning in the same old way. The same thing is happening in the UK, where we have just thrown out a failed New Labour administration and replaced it with something exactly the same......a conservative/liberal coalition!!(dont laugh, its cruel to mock the afflicted) This coalition only survives, because both partners...(especially the Liberals),were so mad for power, that they were prepared to jettison any remaining principles they had, for a seat at the cabinet table......and there they sit today, two parties who should be sworn enemies, united in propping up a failed system, a stark warning to us all on the folly of putting our faith in our wonderful liberal/democratic system. Hawk is right, the agenda of most here is to see "their" side win, be it reverse racism, sexual politics,minority rights.......Real change??.......no takers on Mudcat! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 02 Jun 10 - 06:18 PM As a political analyst, Ake, especially when it comes to what various people here on Mudcat are thinking, you'd make a much better plumber. And as to Little Hawk, when it comes to historical facts, he's pretty good sometimes, but what he's posted here is merely his usual Grand Lama "I'm above it all" theme song. Been around awhile, seen it before. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: akenaton Date: 02 Jun 10 - 07:20 PM Feed the trolls!!.....Trolls are wonderful, they stimulate debate. Trolls perform a service and should be appreciated not villified. Do we really want to put on our slippers and pass away peacefully, or do we want to "rage against the going of the light" A society for the protection of trolls, with perhaps Troll Pride parades....equal rights for trolls....an outright ban on "trollphobia" etc, would make Mudcat much more "liberal". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: mousethief Date: 02 Jun 10 - 07:23 PM I dont think the members of this forum really appreciate the perceptiveness of Little Hawk, once again he demonstrates his uncanny ability to grasp the meaning in everything we write. Translation: he defended me. He can do no wrong. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Jun 10 - 07:25 PM No, Don...what I am avoiding doing...and most of you here can't seem to avoid doing it in your political debates...is I am avoiding speaking in absolutes and reducing situations to absolutes. I am recognizing that human beings are complex...they're not one dimensional cardboard figures. And situations are complex. Obama is complex. There are things I admire about him, things I disagree with in his policies, criticisms I could make of his decisions, and accolades I could give him for other decisions. All of that. When I disagree with people here, it's usually because they're speaking in absolutes. They've decided that someone or something is ALL one way or ALL the other way (good or bad), and it isn't. That's not rational thinking on their part, it's just emotional thinking, usually driven by anger, resentment, partisanship or some other negatively charged emotion. I don't let that sort of primitive, lazy, emotional kneejerk repetitive and predictable stuff go by. I point it out. And that's what you really don't like about my comments, not the fact that they are otherworldly or monklike or divorced from the world of normality. I look at the complexities, I look at both sides, I assess the pros and cons, and I avoid the common stupidity of reducing everything to absolutes and stereotypes. As Akenaton said below, "the agenda of most here is to see "their" side win". Exactly. That is the real agenda most of you constantly pursue in your political debates and other debates, it's self-serving, it's ego-driven, it has nothing to do with fairness, balance or rationality, and when I see you doing it, I let you know about it. And you don't like it one bit. Society will not be free of prejudice and inequality until people (no matter what side of the political divide they are on) STOP thinking at all in terms of a person's outer appearance, skin color, gender, religious identity or any other superficial attribute like that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: akenaton Date: 02 Jun 10 - 07:44 PM In referrance to you mousethief, a more apt quote from my post would be, "he can also recognise bullshit at long range". I suspect LH is not alone in having you "pegged" You seem a narrow vindictive type, reduced to one line sniping. "Ye need smeddum tae be richt coorse or richt kind" You lack "smeddum" mousethief! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: akenaton Date: 02 Jun 10 - 07:48 PM reference (thank god for dictionary .com) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: mousethief Date: 02 Jun 10 - 07:51 PM Sometimes all it takes is one line to puncture pretension and bullshit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: mousethief Date: 02 Jun 10 - 07:56 PM Did I mention pomposity? Sorry, I should have mentioned pomposity. That would have made for a two-line post which would have made you happier. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 02 Jun 10 - 08:25 PM No, Little Hawk, you are assuming that people are talking in absolutes. But not everyone is as simple-minded as you like to think they are. "I look at the complexities, I look at both sides, I assess the pros and cons, and I avoid the common stupidity of reducing everything to absolutes and stereotypes." I, too, am put off by absolutes and stereotypes (as many people are), and I do see plenty of it on these threads. Not, however, from everybody. But, you, Little Hawk, are doing exactly that when you accuse all the rest of us of it. Are you so clairvoyant that you can look into the mind of everyone here? I think not! A touch of hubris on your part, I'd say. Looking down on us mere mortals from your lofty mountaintop. Mirror, Little Hawk. Mirror. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 02 Jun 10 - 08:26 PM Amos: "Spaghetti Sauce 1 yellow onion 1 lb ground beef 1 green pepper 1/2 bunch celery 6-10 fresh chives 2 fresh medium-weight tomatoes 1 jar prefab spaghetti sauce" Instantly better: Just like the song, Parsley Sage Rosemary and Thyme...and Oregano!!!....a lot of it! Saute at least a pound of mushrooms (big, decent chunks!) in butter, and add all of it into the tomato sauce. Green peppers are ok, but puree them first(they make gas!) Brown the ground beef first, then drain the excess grease! Either a sprinkle 1 to 7 splashes of Worcestershire Sauce, OR a little bit of sugar (1-2 Tablespoons of it), if you want to take the acid bite out of the tomato sauce. If you want to use garlic, add it toward the end of the simmering!(If you cook garlic toward the beginning, it gets a little bit bitter) Also, when you get your ground beef, try to get Both regular grind, and chili grind(coarse). black olives are good in it too!...and if so, use the brine of the can to the sauce, and you don't need to add salt!~!!!! After its all mixed together, and cooks for a while...TURN IT OFF!! When it cools down, re-heat it, and you won't have to have it cook all day!...TASTES GREAT!!!!!!!!! More about the meatballs, if interested! Bon Appetite! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Jeri Date: 02 Jun 10 - 08:45 PM CHIVES?! This is what's wrong with the world today. Inappropriate seasoning. I'm also not too keen on celery, but it needs basil and more garlic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Jun 10 - 08:51 PM Inapropriate seasoning is a major problem all right. No doubt about it. ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: ichMael Date: 02 Jun 10 - 09:20 PM Excellent article: How Monica Lewinsky Saved Social Security Basically, Bill Clinton (with the help of Newt Gingrich and others) was getting ready to "privatize" Social Security--begin investing SS funds in bullshit Wall Street stocks. Then the Lewinsky business came along and that plan came to a screeching stop. Now the Social Security issue is back. Obama has just killed Medicaire and is setting his genocidalist's sights on Social Security. Obama's killing 330 million per year worldwide with his "green" ethanol program (it's so GOOD for the planet to kill people), and now he's bringing that goodness to America. He's gonna kill you old timers by taking away your Medicaire and Social Security. So, perhaps they're about to do a Lewinsky on him with this gay thing. NO ONE would support this guy if this story broke on the mainstream media. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: John P Date: 02 Jun 10 - 09:38 PM Little Hawk, Akenaton, Is there any chance that either of you would stop ascribing motives to people and then making broad, general statements based on your belief in the reality of the motives you ascribe to people? A start would be to actually answer the question I asked: So -- who have you talked to (other than possibly some outright racists) who pays more attention to Obama's blackness than they do to whether or not he's a good president? I am really sick of hearing both of you say that most people are cows being led around by their noses. News flash! Most of us are actually able to think for ourselves and make up our own minds. Please stop being so insulting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: mousethief Date: 02 Jun 10 - 09:47 PM Obama's green ethanol program? They've been putting ethanol in gasoline for decades. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Jun 10 - 10:12 PM John - Ha! ;-D If being grossly misunderstood whenever I try to make a point here was great fun, I'd spend even a lot more time at it than I do. If you get what I mean... But you probably don't. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 02 Jun 10 - 10:24 PM I just got a big packet of stuff from Medicare in this afternoon's mail. Run-down on new benefits. Looks pretty darned good to me! Now, if Obama will just keep ruining things like this, it'll be one helluva lot better world all the way around. Boy, will that piss a lot of people off!! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 02 Jun 10 - 10:35 PM Mirror, Little Hawk. Mirror! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: John P Date: 03 Jun 10 - 12:01 AM Little Hawk, I hate to burst your bubble, but I can read what you write with great accuracy. If you think I'm misunderstanding you, you are wrong. If you don't really mean what you write, you should consider taking a writing course, and maybe logic as well. Trying again, in answer to your assertion that people tend to do things that allow you to categorize them and pretend you are superior to them: So -- who have you talked to (other than possibly some outright racists) who pays more attention to Obama's blackness than they do to whether or not he's a good president? What, no answer? Is it possible that your philosophical generalizations don't stand the scrutiny of real life? Try answering what I say instead of pretending to be superior by saying that you are misunderstood. That's really lame. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: ichMael Date: 03 Jun 10 - 12:02 AM ...In fact, more than half-a-trillion dollars is cut from the main Medicare program alone. The cuts include: $528.5 billion cut from Medicare. $206 billion cut from Medicare Advantage. And then there's $65.7 billion taken from seniors through higher premiums and additional cuts to Medicare beneficiaries and providers, as well as another $13.3 billion to be cut in the future at the determination of a federal board of bureaucrats.... http://amerpundit.com/2010/03/21/reminder-obamacare-guts-medicare-advantage-program/ You can sell ALL kinds of horseshit if you just mail it in a nice big packet. Doctors are going to have to deny you treatment someday, Firth, because you're just not cost-effective. Think of Obama when you're dying. But anyway, I see now where Obama gets his homosexual proclitivities. He's a Luo. That's his tribe in Kenya. They're considered effiminate by other tribes: To the Northwest, the Nilotic Luo, meek, cowardly, strong in the use of magic but pushovers in a direct confrontation, sexually rather loose, poor, well-suited for menial, manual labor. To the Kipsigis the Luo are women, or at best children. "When fighting Luos all you had to do was throw your sword in the air and they would run away." As expected, the Maasai and Luo were described as polar opposites: Maasai being both aggressive and masculine, Luo as both passive and feminine. http://www.unc.edu/~rdaniels/papers/1969/Ethnocentrism.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: mousethief Date: 03 Jun 10 - 12:06 AM Doctors are going to have to deny you treatment someday, Firth, because you're just not cost-effective. Think of Obama when you're dying. Unlike what insurance companies do today, you mean? Fortunately they will no longer be able to do it soon thanks to Obama. Sucks for your theory. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: John P Date: 03 Jun 10 - 12:26 AM ichMael is gay. ichMael is gay. ichMael is gay. ichMael is gay. ichMael is gay. ichMael is gay. ichMael is gay. ichMael is gay. ichMael is gay. ichMael is gay. ichMael is gay. ichMael is gay. Ooh, this is fun. I don't even need any proof! I don't even need to know him or her! I can just keep saying it over and over again! What a cool world this is! Actually, given the amount of time that ichMael has apparently spent thinking about homosexual sex, we have more evidence that ichMael is gay than that Obama is gay.
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ebbie Date: 03 Jun 10 - 12:42 AM If the Luo are weak and effeminate, aren't you just plain glad that Obama is half white? White surely makes him strong, brave and manly. Like you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: mousethief Date: 03 Jun 10 - 01:02 AM So... he's bi? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 03 Jun 10 - 01:22 AM Funny thing. I've had to joust with the regular commercial health insurance companies a number of times over denial of benefits—and won on most occasions, but I had to kick some butt. Never had a problem with Medicare. And then, today, I get this package from Medicare outlining new benefits. No change in premiums, by the way. Sorry Michael. The real world doesn't reflect your forebodings. Take two aspirin and call your psychiatrist in the morning. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Smedley Date: 03 Jun 10 - 01:48 AM Speaking as a homo, me and my gang are quite happy to welcome Obama, but the *last* person we want is IchMael!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 03 Jun 10 - 07:17 AM ""No, Don...what I am avoiding doing...and most of you here can't seem to avoid doing it in your political debates...is I am avoiding speaking in absolutes and reducing situations to absolutes. I am recognizing that human beings are complex..."" Yes! You are doing that, but that isn't the whole story is it LH. In addition to expressing your appreciation of infinite greys, as well as blacks and whites, and as you say avoiding absolutes, you absolutely imply that you are the only one here with the sense to do so. We appreciate your ability to sit on the fence for so long without becoming a double act, but, if we all followed your example, there would be no discussion, ever again, about anything except possibly how boring Mudcat had become. Discussion requires that there be two sides. It cannot happen without. Your offer to take the post of arbiter is kind, but unnecessary, as we are capable of rational thought, and (occasionally) of reacting to a better argument by changing our positions. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 03 Jun 10 - 07:21 AM """the agenda of most here is to see "their" side win". Exactly. That is the real agenda most of you constantly pursue in your political debates and other debates, it's self-serving, it's ego-driven, it has nothing to do with fairness, balance or rationality, and when I see you doing it, I let you know about it. And you don't like it one bit."" And of course we ignore you because that is exactly what you, yourself are doing. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: ichMael Date: 04 Jun 10 - 08:04 AM Oops. It's this pagethat I've been emailing. Much more current. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Genie Date: 04 Jun 10 - 12:56 PM We've already had a gay President. Our 14th President, according to both rumor and his own letters and diaries, was not only single but gay. His paramour was known as "Mr. Nancy." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: frogprince Date: 04 Jun 10 - 01:56 PM Genie, did you get the wrong number? #14 was Franklin Pierce, married with children. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Genie Date: 04 Jun 10 - 01:58 PM Yes, I did get the number wrong. For some reason I was thinking Lincoln was #15, when he was #16. The gay President was James Buchanan. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: MMario Date: 04 Jun 10 - 02:57 PM frogprince mentioned: #14 was Franklin Pierce, married with children. Neither status precluding his being gay, but granted, he wasn't single. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 04 Jun 10 - 03:15 PM It is time for Winona Ryder to make some more good movies. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Genie Date: 04 Jun 10 - 04:58 PM Leo, it was #15, Buchanan, I was referring to. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 04 Jun 10 - 06:11 PM Just for the helluvit, let me ask ichMael this: Let's assume that the allegation that Barack Obama is gay is true. What difference would it make? Don Firth P. S. And other than homophobes and general nut-balls, who the hell would care? And why should they? P. P. S. Obviously, considering the amount of time and energy that you dedicate to the matter, ichMael, you obviously care a great deal. Why? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,TIA Date: 04 Jun 10 - 06:41 PM Dear Ichmael. You have put this nation in a vulnerable position by hiding your true sexual orientation. Please declare your homosexuality immediately so that you will no longer be subject to blackmail. Thank you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 04 Jun 10 - 07:25 PM You will note, ichMael, that in the P. P. S. following my post just above, I have used the word "obviously" twice. I just wanted to emphasize how really obvious your concern is. Again, why? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 04 Jun 10 - 07:31 PM Don - I suggested to Ichmael quite some time back that I didn't see what difference it would make to Obama carrying out his presidential duties effectively if he was gay or not...but he did not comment. The problem would appear to be with the reaction of a substantial section of the American electorate, not with Obama's ability to govern. In other words, about half your population would go apeshit if they found out that Obama was gay....and that in itself would make it very hard, perhaps impossible for him to govern. Conclusion: the problem is NOT with Mr Obama! ;-D It's with his electorate. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: mousethief Date: 04 Jun 10 - 08:45 PM half your population would go apeshit if they found out that Obama was gay....and that in itself would make it very hard You seem to know a lot about what turns Mr Obama on? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 04 Jun 10 - 09:17 PM Uh . . . "apeshit." Shouldn't that go on your "does Tarzan screw gorillas" thread, Little Hawk? Just for the record, your comments about the potential reaction of much of the electorate is not exactly a newsflash. Nevertheless, sexual orientation is not exactly an impeachable offense. Tempest in a chamberpot. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,999 Date: 04 Jun 10 - 09:27 PM Re spaghetti sauces: grind some fresh nutmeg on to it. Delicious. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Jeri Date: 04 Jun 10 - 09:39 PM How could I have forgotten the nutmeg!? ...then add more garlic, some EV olive oil, and cheese. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Joe Offer Date: 04 Jun 10 - 09:49 PM Try some fresh lemons in the spaghetti sauce. Cut them in half and squeeze the juice into your sauce, then float the skins on the sauce as it's simmering.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 04 Jun 10 - 10:25 PM I agree that it's a tempest in a chamberpot, Don. In fact, that was exactly my point. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jun 10 - 10:33 PM Is it time for a gay president to do it with gorillas? Yes it is...just look at Michelle! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 04 Jun 10 - 10:38 PM She looks fine to me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jun 10 - 10:42 PM Little Hawk,(Yo-Ho)..Your slippin' Wink, GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Wesley S Date: 04 Jun 10 - 10:45 PM How clever GfS. Comparing a black woman to a gorilla. THAT's never been done before. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 04 Jun 10 - 10:46 PM No, I'm not, GfS. She looks fine to me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jun 10 - 11:11 PM Little Hawk: "No, I'm not, GfS. She looks fine to me." Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's gorilla! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jun 10 - 11:17 PM Oh, and Wesley...only a moron would make that into a racist remark!..or try to! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 04 Jun 10 - 11:21 PM I'm not coveting her, I'm simply making an observation. It's Winona Ryder whom I covet, and she isn't married. ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Genie Date: 04 Jun 10 - 11:33 PM I'm pretty sure the vast majority of Americans who would be freaked out or horribly offended if Obama were gay already hate him (or at least want him out of office) because he's black, because he's "a liberal," because he's a Democrat or all of the above. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from sanity Date: 04 Jun 10 - 11:33 PM I thought Michelle Pfeiffer was pretty nice....I actually met her and talked with her, in regards to a script, and the 'Women in Films Awards', at the Beverly Hilton. Winona was there, as was Marisa Tomei, Linda Grey, Demi Moore.. and Jule Andrews, and a few others. By the way, Julie Andrews carried, and conducted herself like royalty..a real class act! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: LadyJean Date: 04 Jun 10 - 11:40 PM I likd that spaghetti sauce recipe. Lots of onions. That's what's wrong with contemporary cuisine, not enough onions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jun 10 - 11:41 PM Genie, I think some people (mostly on the left) project an imaginary 'hatred for blacks' to those who just don't like Obama.....and blame those who see him as incompetent, as 'hating' him, just because he is black. I think that is just way of writing off legitimate criticism......okay, you can put your head back into the sand, again..get some much needed snooze. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jun 10 - 11:44 PM Lady Jean, You are right!..I use a few onions in my sauce...and I suggest everyone do the same! Also try the idea of a can of olives, and using the brine, instead of adding salt...you'll like it! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ebbie Date: 04 Jun 10 - 11:49 PM GfS, you evidently don't know a class act when you see it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Jun 10 - 01:03 AM Genie - In regards to what you said in your last post... Yes, that is probably right what you said. But my point is that if Obama was openly revealed in fact to BE gay, then the people who already don't like him would have a lot more ammunition to raise a ruckus about it, wouldn't they? And that would strengthen the opposition to Obama to the point that it would make his job tremendously more difficult than it is now. The American president serves, psychologically speaking, as a surrogate parent figure in the subconscious of most of the American public, whether or not they know it or not. That's why they have so often tended to vote for someone who resembles the strong father figures immortalized in a couple of hundred years of American popular fiction, history, and movies.... Think John Wayne, Lorne Greene, Ronald Reagan, George Washington, Andrew Jackson, John Kennedy, Teddy Roosevelt, Clint Eastwood, U.S. Grant, etc...what the American public really wants when they think of their president is a great big and kind but strong and authoritative "Daddy" in the White House whom they can trust to lead the national family and get tough when the going gets tough. Or they might sometime settle for a tough but fair "Mommy" in the White House (like Hillary or Sarah, depending on your partisan viewpoint)...it's a possibility, given certain conditions. What they absolutely don't want is a "wimp" (male or female) who doesn't get tough when the going gets tough. Some who have suffered the "wimp" label either in or out of office are Jimmy Carter, George Bush Senior, Michael Dukakis, and Adlai Stevenson...and there are few things more devastating in American politics than being labelled a "wimp". Being stupid is acceptable. Being a "wimp" is not! ;-) Now.......it shouldn't stretch your mind too much to recognize that the average American does not picture the nation's surrogate Father figure as a gay man. And I'll tell you why...because about 99% of all the people living in the USA have grown up in a heterosexual family with a father who obviously wasn't a gay man. That's a fact. And what do they subconsciously want for their president? They want someone who makes them feel safe and who reminds them somehow of their own idealized familial origins...which were not gay. Period. This does not mean those people necessarily hate gays (though some of them certainly do)...it means they are more comfortable with the familiar than they are with the unfamiliar. Period. For the same reason, they were reluctant to vote a Catholic into office until finally they did with John Kennedy. Why were they reluctant to do so? Well, it hadn't been done before, that's why. It's always quite hard to get people to shift from the culturally familiar to the culturally unfamiliar....whether it be electing a Catholic president or a female president or a non-White president or a gay president...or giving women and Black and Indians the vote. And the more culturally unfamiliar the scenario is, the longer are the chances against it happening...because people are creatures of habit, and they fear the unfamiliar. The only time they'll opt for a radical change in the familiar is when they have become deeply disillusioned and let down with the normal status quo. That's what happened in 2008 after 8 dreadful years of George Bush, when America voted in "a Black man" (actually he's half Black and half White...but in America half-Black means only one thing in practical terms: it means ALL Black.) That is not so in some other societies, but it clearly is in the USA. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ebbie Date: 05 Jun 10 - 01:44 AM Gee Whilikers, Little Hawkman! Your lame premise falters and stumbles before it even gets to the gate. You say: "Think John Wayne, Lorne Greene, Ronald Reagan, George Washington, Andrew Jackson, John Kennedy, Teddy Roosevelt, Clint Eastwood, U.S. Grant" etc, but of those nine men you list, how many became President? Six. Many, many presidents of this country were scarcely what even you would think of as a "great, big, kind, strong, authoritative "Daddy". It gets tiresome to have you pontificate so blithely on what the "American people" want and need. Frankly, my dear, you don't know. And here you say: "...because about 99% of all the people living in the USA have grown up in a heterosexual family with a father who obviously wasn't a gay man. That's a fact". Nay, it is not. 99%? Would that it were so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Jun 10 - 01:45 AM By the way, I was NOT suggesting in that last post that gay people are "wimps". They are, like other people, of all types of personalities, assertive and non-asssertive, aggressive and passive, etc. But I do find it interesting that wimpiness is such a damaging label for a president to be saddled with, that's all, so I talked about that some. (I think, however, that an enormous number of people DO think gay men are wimpy...it's a common stereotype, and has been for centuries.) The main objection most Americans would have rising up in their subconscious about a gay person being president is simply that a gay person does not represent the picture they have in their minds of a surrogate parent for the nation. They're unfamiliar with a gay person in that role, therefore they would feel quite uncomfortable with it. It would not meet their usual expectations, and it would not make them feel safe and secure. And that is the major impediment in the way of electing a gay person as president. I'm not suggesting in any of this that Obama is secretly gay. I have no opinion about that at all, and I don't particularly care either. It's a non-issue to me. What I am talking about is not Obama...but the general reaction of a predominantly heterosexual culture to the idea of electing a gay president. Period. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Jun 10 - 01:57 AM Which premise fails, Ebbie? About what percentage of families in America do you think have had heterosexual parents raising children in the last 100 years? I'd say virtually all of them, and that's why I said about 99%, just as a ballpark figure. I've known a number of gay individuals by now. Maybe a dozen or so of them among the tens of thousands of friends and acquaintances I've had in my life, maybe two dozen. I haven't personally known anyone yet who was raised as a child in a gay family...not one. There are some people who have been. Sure. And I haven't happened to meet them. But what guess would you make as to their percentage amongst the general population? My premise is simply that people resist the unfamiliar and they cling to the familiar, because it makes them feel secure. What fault do you find in that premise? There are thousands of different ways of proving it if one wishes to take the time. It's plain freaking obvious. But people here would rather talk about homophobia and hunt around for homophobes, and reduce everything to some extreme position that they can get upset about than just look at something perfectly ordinary and predictable that's plain freaking obvious, wouldn't they? ***** Do you disagree with my premise? I will repeat it. My premise is simply that people everywhere in EVERY society resist the unfamiliar and they cling to the familiar, because it makes them feel secure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 05 Jun 10 - 02:01 AM Ebbie, Julie Andrews was a class act....don't try to flatter yourself! Here, being as you have to bitch, whine and moan over everything I post....and argue, as if you have a great store of knowledge, here's a statement ....just for you,... to take exception to. Now correct me if I'm wrong..ok?...Today where I live, the sky was blue. Okay..Have at it! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Genie Date: 05 Jun 10 - 02:04 AM GfS, I was in no way accusing all of Obama's knee-jerk opposers of being racist. Read what I said, please. I gave that as one of several 'reasons' why many of Obama's non-left-wing opponents seem to oppose just about everything he does. Some of those "opponents" are blatantly racist (cf. the signs depicting Obama as an African "witch doctor" or as a watermelon-slurping 'Sambo' character or the "Barack, The Magic Negro" parodies aired by Rush Limbaugh) but many others oppose him just because he is not a Republican or because they perceive him as more "liberal" than they are. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Genie Date: 05 Jun 10 - 02:11 AM Hawk, you make some good points. But I think for a lot of Americans the unfamiliar territory of a (closeted) "gay" President is probably no more threatening than that of a (half-) black President or a woman President or (shudder) an openly non-religious President. Interestingly enough, several Republican Congress people who have been revealed to have been involved in homosexual activities even while actively working against "gay rights" seem to have continued to be embraced by their Republican constituents. The only gays whom the right-wingers seem to be dead set against are the Democratic or "liberal" ones. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Jun 10 - 02:21 AM Ebbie, regarding the 99%...perhaps what you are objecting to in my figure is that many children have grown up in single parent families where the father was not present. That's true. But there was a heterosexual father involved at some point, because that's how their mother got pregnant! There wasn't a gay father raising most of those children I speak of in the vast majority of North American families, and when they think of a father figure, a gay man is not what comes to their minds, a heterosexual man is what comes to their minds. And that was what I was referring to. Most people grow up with a set of heterosexual assumptions in their mind about their future role in life, and that's why having a gay man as president would strike them as very unusual. And if they think it's unusual, then it will make them feel uncomfortable, in most cases, and that's why the odds are stacked against the public voting for a gay president, if offered the choice. Not because of some kind of universal hatred of gays...because it would be very unusual, that's all! I don't dream that either the Republicans or the Democrats ever WILL openly offer them that choice to the public...so I doubt that we'll see my theory get put to the test. ;-) Those 2 parties are in the business of selling a product...the candidate they choose to put in front of the people. They will back the candidate they think will get the most support from the most people. He (or she) is the one who'll get the most campaign funding, and it's campaign funding which wins an election. Obama got by far the most campaign funding in 2008, and he naturally won the election. It was the right moment to offer a seemingly radical "change", so they switched in midstream from the predictable (Hillary) to the seemingly more radical (Obama). You will not see them give that kind of campaign funding to an openly gay candidate, because he or she would be a tremendously hard sell to main street America. They (the Democratic and Republican parties) aren't completely stupid, after all. They always pick someone from their ranks who they think can win. That isn't an openly gay person in the USA, and so far it hasn't been in any other modern nation either. Not once. Not anywhere. That isn't because everyone everywhere hates gays. It's because people are accustomed to having heterosexual leaders at the head of their various nations. Period. And they are mostly accustomed to having men as their national leaders. That's why we've seen only a few women become national leaders in the last hundred years, among a great many men. It's simply cultural conditioning, because women are just as good at leading a country as men are...given the chance. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Jun 10 - 02:31 AM " But I think for a lot of Americans the unfamiliar territory of a (closeted) "gay" President is probably no more threatening than that of a (half-) black President or a woman President or (shudder) an openly non-religious President. Absolutely right, Genie! But I wasn't speaking of a closeted gay president. I was speaking of an openly gay candidate for president. I think the chances of such a person being elected to the highest office would be virtually nil. Interestingly enough, several Republican Congress people who have been revealed to have been involved in homosexual activities even while actively working against "gay rights" seem to have continued to be embraced by their Republican constituents. The only gays whom the right-wingers seem to be dead set against are the Democratic or "liberal" ones. Excellent point, Genie. It's amusing, isn't it? At the end of the day, all that seems to matter to most people when it comes to politics is that their side should win. If they are liberals, that means that the liberal side should win. If they're conservative, it's the other way around. Thus they can easily forgive in people of their own side what they would find utterly unforgivable in the opposition, and that's why both the Right and the Left are riddled with hypocrisy, in my opinion. And that's why I take issue with both of them. (though I am definitely to the Left in my general leanings) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ebbie Date: 05 Jun 10 - 03:13 AM I was indeed speaking of the very large number of single parent households, LH. Just recently they made public an astonishing percentage. And I agree that the fathers were heterosexual, in the main. GfS, my retort about class referred only to your racist and clumsy remark about Michelle Obama. She is classy- the fact you don't think so says a good deal about you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: frogprince Date: 05 Jun 10 - 08:31 AM "Is it time for a gay president to do it with gorillas? Yes it is...just look at Michelle!" "Oh, and Wesley...only a moron would make that into a racist remark!..or try to!" GfS Only the vast majority of normal people would see that as racist and sexist at the crassest, nastiest, level. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Wesley S Date: 05 Jun 10 - 10:21 AM I'd still like to hear why ishMael and GfS have such an interest in anyone else's sex life. Even the presidents. And GfS - Yes - you made a racist remark. There is no other explination for it other than you like to yank peoples chains in order to get badly needed attention. You would earn more respect around here if you would just own up to it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 05 Jun 10 - 12:32 PM Wesley: "And GfS - Yes - you made a racist remark. There is no other explination for it other than you like to yank peoples chains in order to get badly needed attention." Perception, perception perception!!! The racist bent on things is in YOUR head...not mine. You took it that way because of your obvious left bent on thinking everything said that disagrees with the President,is racist based....which in my case is totally absurd...same with Ebbie! Its the mantra to avoid looking at things the way they really are!...which has never been a leading attribute of ideologues, right or left! Now get off it. open your minds to rational thinking, which, of course, gives way to possibly admitting that your perception(s) may need some adjusting...which it obviously does, or you wouldn't have made that jump...in error! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: gnu Date: 05 Jun 10 - 12:52 PM Maybe just a bisexual to start with? Hey, he could relate to both sides. (Yeah, I thought so too.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Jun 10 - 12:58 PM The "other explanation" is the explanation. He was deliberately pulling a lot of people's chains here when he made that remark....waving the red flag at the bull, as it were. And naturally, the bull has now charged. How gratifying for the matador. ;-D He got exactly what he wanted from you folks who are crying "racist!". You'll note that I didn't charge the matador, because I knew perfectly well that GfS was just pulling people's chains here with that remark about Michelle Obama. It was way too far off the wall to be taken seriously. I simply said, "She looks fine to me." You will achieve absolutely nothing by huffing and puffing about GfS being a "racist". He's laughing up his sleeve at you when you do. You have responded right on cue, predictable as Pavlov's dog, and that's what he had in mind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: John P Date: 05 Jun 10 - 01:16 PM Wow, Little Hawk, it's nice that you are able to see inside of GfS's brain. How do you manage that? Are you absolutely sure it's a troll and not a bigoted asshole? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: John P Date: 05 Jun 10 - 01:18 PM Well, OK, it's probably both. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Jun 10 - 02:04 PM Child's play, John. ;-) Keep in mind that I've read hundreds and hundreds of posts by GfS in the past year or so about all kinds of subjects, I have a pretty good idea of how his mind works and how his sense of humour works too. GfS is no dummy, and he enjoys arousing ire in the "liberal" crowd here from time to time. Yeah, he was trolling, and he got some nice lively bites on that juicy piece of bait. It's just naive to get in a frenzy over something like that when it was designed TO put you in a frenzy in the first place. Do you really think anyone here is going to intimidate GfS by labelling him as a "racist"? Not a chance. You're just blowing off steam when you do that, and that's for your own relief, but it won't intimidate him in the slightest. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 05 Jun 10 - 02:09 PM Well, John, Little Hawk is omniscient. Just ask him. He'll tell you. But humbly, of course. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: John P Date: 05 Jun 10 - 03:05 PM I know full well that GfS isn't going to be swayed by anything anyone says. I just can't help sometimes showing her up as bigoted, illogical, rude, and syntax-impaired, even if he isn't able to track what I'm saying. I know I'm just blowing off steam, but it's kind of fun sometimes. When I'm feeling inferior, all I have to do is read a post from her and I feel better right away. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Jun 10 - 04:42 PM Careful, Don.... ;-) You might offend me and our magnificent friendship will suffer a setback! John, what makes you so sure that GfS is a female? I know there's been speculation about that before, but I am aware of no evidence to support it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Jun 10 - 04:46 PM I know what, John! We could refer to GfS henceforth as "it" in order to avoid the complications of deciding what gender GfS is. And it would save a few keystrokes too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: John P Date: 05 Jun 10 - 04:52 PM I have referred to it as "it" before. My last post, I decided to alternate "he" and "she". The English language is sadly lacking in non-gender specific third person personal pronouns. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: akenaton Date: 05 Jun 10 - 06:51 PM What if "it" is a "hetertosexual, homosexual activist" like Mr Peekstock? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Jun 10 - 07:41 PM That is a risk we will just have to take. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: akenaton Date: 05 Jun 10 - 07:52 PM :0) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: John P Date: 05 Jun 10 - 08:01 PM Wow, Akenaton, that really stuck in your craw, didn't it? You sound like you consider some kind of insult. Well, since an insult from you on that topic is really a compliment, I guess I don't have a problem with you're repeating it every chance you get. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Wesley S Date: 05 Jun 10 - 09:32 PM GfS - If you'll re-read my post you'll see that I never called you a racist. I said that you made a racist remark in order to call attention to yourself. Those are two very different things. I'm not sure why you feel the need to seek the limelight the way you do. Maybe you're unlucky in love, maybe you're fat and unhappy about it. Maybe your mother never breast fed you. I don't know and I don't care enough about you to want to know. But I'm glad the Mudcat is here for you - and others - as an outlet. Carry on - just try to be a little more original next time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ed T Date: 05 Jun 10 - 09:39 PM Maybe there was already a gay USA president (NTTIAWWT), considering the statistical possibility? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Jun 10 - 10:40 PM Quite likely there has, I'd say. But there hasn't been an officially gay president yet, and it's the great unlikelihood of that happening which seems like a more interesting topic of discussion to me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 06 Jun 10 - 02:06 AM Not only do you not know my gender, some of you honkies don't even know if I'm white!!!!! Choke on that one! The reference to Michelle looking like an ape, comes from an E-mail I received a while ago, which had two pictures; one of Michelle and one a chimp. The expression on Michelle's face, when the shot was snapped, was IDENTICAL to the one of the chimp!. It was uncanny! Some of you may have seen the pics, I don't know. The rest was ribbing Little Hawk. I wasn't trolling, but some of you swallowed it hook line and sinker, which surprised the shit out of me!!. Swallowing imaginary bait!..Like I said, 'Perception, perception, perception!' By the way, the first real band I was in, in the mid 60's was four back up vocalists, behind a lead singer....all black!.. My credits include, Tina Turner, Michael Jackson, and have met Stevie Wonder on several occasions. Also, Gil Scott Heron was a business associate, and a client of one of my sound engineering mentors! James Baldwin, for a time was a close friend. Racist???? Beauty, as well as ugly, is in the eye of the beholder! Yo-Ho, Little Hawk! Regards, GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Jun 10 - 02:31 AM The great thing about photos of chimps and photos of people is...you can always find a chimp photo that looks a lot like a specific photo of some person...probably any person...if you just match them up right. Now why hasn't anyone done this yet with Woody Allen? ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 06 Jun 10 - 03:38 AM In a way, Woody Allen looks like a wimpy version of the lead cowboy toy, in 'Toy Story'...well, at least to me. Yo-Ho, GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Bonzo3legs Date: 06 Jun 10 - 05:27 AM What a stupid discussion, how can you have a president who desn't know what is backside is for??????? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 06 Jun 10 - 07:15 AM ""The reference to Michelle looking like an ape, comes from an E-mail I received a while ago, which had two pictures; one of Michelle and one a chimp."" And while Michelle has a dark skin, the face of the chimp is pink. Yet people like GfS only ever equate chimps and gorillas to black folks. Why is that GfS? Could it be that you are in fact nothing more than a miserable bigotted racist? Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 06 Jun 10 - 07:21 AM ""By the way, the first real band I was in, in the mid 60's was four back up vocalists, behind a lead singer....all black!.. My credits include, Tina Turner, Michael Jackson, and have met Stevie Wonder on several occasions. Also, Gil Scott Heron was a business associate, and a client of one of my sound engineering mentors! James Baldwin, for a time was a close friend."" YEAH, YEAH, YEAH! And we are to believe all that because......? And, by the way, you don't know how many of us "Honkies" are black. I could as easily claim to be a close friend of the Queen, or even to be the queen. How would you know? Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 06 Jun 10 - 11:26 AM Don, Your post is absolutely absurd! It sounds as if you're coming undone! Everything I posted is true. Maybe you're the one who has adopted an irrational tone, because YOU'RE the one who has bigotry issues! Yes, I've live an extraordinarily well rounded life, in which NOT being in debt, has afforded me a certain freedom, and a healthier outlook. I've managed to get along with most all people, from all races, because the human, not political, side of me, does not cloud my humanity..and I can be REAL with just about anyone. I'm not promoting a false temporary Band-aid, to fit into an 'acceptance box', for anyone else to solve my problems!...Therefore, I can 'call them as I see them'. You, on the other hand, are working through your regrets, and projecting that onto others...then see them as adversaries!!! Lighten up. If you want problems to solve, try stacking chords, and inner voice leading, in your music, and still create a beautiful tune. Best Wishes, and hope you find happiness! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 06 Jun 10 - 01:22 PM Don: "You equate black people with gorillas, and then say I've got a problem, when I call you on it." I did??? Show me..or shut up!!!!...then re-read what I said to you! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: John P Date: 06 Jun 10 - 01:31 PM GfS, bigots have been equating black people with apes for centuries. Get a clue. Whether or not you meant it as a racist comment, given the history of that comparison, it WAS a racist comment. If you didn't mean it that way, you could say something like, "Gosh, I wasn't aware that was a common racist comparison. I apologize for unwittingly making it and promise not to do it again. Please forgive me." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: John P Date: 06 Jun 10 - 01:50 PM Also, given that you are so astonishingly bigoted against homosexuals, it is easy for people to assume you are also bigoted against blacks. If you don't want to be called a bigot, don't talk one, ever. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 06 Jun 10 - 02:24 PM Let me see, now, Gfs. . . . You are a psychological counselor (previous threads having to do with sexual orientation) and you can cure "gayness." Now, on this thread, you were a back-up musician for Tina Turner and Michael Jackson. . . . I am impressed!! Did I ever tell you about the times I've raised the sick, healed the dead, walked on water, received a knighthood for singing for Queen Elizabeth II, beat Neil Armstrong to the moon, been chased around the bed by both Angelina Joli and Sandra Bullock, and. . . . Don Firth P. S. AND I make the world's best gourmet peanut butter and jelly sandwich!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Joe Offer Date: 06 Jun 10 - 04:32 PM OK, OK, please settle down, talk about the issue at hand, and stop telling each other they're full of shit. Several messages deleted. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Jun 10 - 05:05 PM Don, it is a fruitless, pointless occupation to try to prove that another poster here whose posts you don't like is... a racist a bigot a sexist a fascist a homophobe a child molester or some other very negative label like that. You can't prove it, and the person you accuse can't disprove it either...therefore you are putting them in an impossible position unless they have the sense to just ignore your personal attacks on them and discuss issues instead. It's a waste of time engaging in such personal character accusations, and it's a waste of time for the person you accuse to even bother responding to those accusations...because if your mind is made up (which it obviously is), then NOTHING they could possibly ever say could change it, right? So why should they even respond? So why not just stop doing it, and talk about the social and political issues instead. Discuss the social issues themselves rather than trying to prove that some other person who is posting here is as evil and horrible in character as you have decided to believe they are. And I advise others here to do the same. Stop trying to prove that so-and-so is a BAAAAAAAD person....and talk about the actual issues instead. Stick to the subject matter. Drop the personal abuse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ed T Date: 06 Jun 10 - 05:46 PM I haven't followed this post...and its many curved paths. However, to me, there is a difference between openly running for office, openly as a gay person and getting elected and then letting voters know you are gay. The difference is an indication of the tolerance towards and acceptance of different sexual orientation. Taking this into consideration, Canada has elected at least two federal openly gay Members of Parliament. One is Scott Brison who was Canada's Minister of Public Works and Government Services, and Receiver General of Canada, from 2004 to 2006,and is still a MP and is currently an opposition party spokesperson on Canadian economic issues. His sexual orientation is rarely, if ever, raised as a negative issue. Mr Brison's website http://www.brison.ca/page.asp?pageid=10004 With this mind, maybe Canada will beat the USA in electing a gay leader? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 06 Jun 10 - 07:36 PM Well, I figured my post would be deleted(which it was)....let me re-phrase...Don and John, you made stuff up, that I never said. You jumped off into tangents of your own imaginations. Don, I'm not getting back into the homosexual discussion again...after you were shredded the last time...and still you have a need to launder some weird disorder of yours..which I could venture a guess, but I'm not going to give you that attention! You were massively discredited, with your erroneous posts, which they themselves contradicted you political, sans scientific proof stance....even your posts said that the homosexual researcher, who did the work, could not come up with any evidence..to support what you claimed he was saying!!..Go figure! As to John, you just flat out lied, about the race thing. I guess you live in the 'one trick pony' world. Sorry, it certainly does NOT apply in my case. You guys get your backs up against the wall, then shriek like banshees that someone is a racist or bigot..and think that's going to wash!..........maybe 40 years ago that might have worked for ya', but that's a worn out, tired false claim....and so are you! If you have any doubt, or question on what I said about homosexuality, there is another thread that I dealt with that, ACCURATELY! You will see that Don Firth repeatedly misquotes me back to the thread, then tries to rip into me, for what he quotes, even if it isn't what I even remotely said. John, you just tried the same stupid ploy. Sorry, anyone can read it, and make their own judgment, and mind you, if you stay objective, you'll see that your post was sheer foolishness!! (Well, it was more diplomatic that calling you full of shit!) Most Sincerely, GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ebbie Date: 06 Jun 10 - 07:55 PM Ah. So GfS is NOT attacking? Good to know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 06 Jun 10 - 07:57 PM I could cut and paste your quotes, GfS, as I did before, if you would like. But of course, you swore up and down that your posts that I was quoting from had been posted by someone else using your handle, and then you accused me of doing it. And that, by tracing your computer's IP number, was proven to be false. I don't need to do anything like that, GfS, because you have a strong tendency to repeatedly commit suicide with the same weapon that Samson used against the Philistine hordes. [Look it up.] So, counselor and back-up musician for a whole menagerie of famous performers, and God knows what all else that might prove convenient, your credibility is toast. Nothing you say is worth noting. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 07 Jun 10 - 12:48 AM Don Froth: "So, counselor and back-up musician for a whole menagerie of famous performers, and God knows what all else that might prove convenient, your credibility is toast. Nothing you say is worth noting." Get over it!...and stop projecting your own unaccomplished self onto anyone else, who has actually done something. ..I mean spinning 45 minute concertos isn't really all that exhausting, is it?...Neither does it take a lot of talent. Abandoning your wife and son to follow your turntable dream, isn't much to crow about either. I just read that your most recent struggled accomplishment was getting your Medi-caid/Welfare package in the mail!!... Hats off, and congratulations on you latest achievement! ..so little have you accomplished, that now you want to exhume quotes from another post, that I think sucked up enough time and cyber-space. Maybe another 5 runs at it, and you can come up with a spin, even you would believe!...jeez, maybe you believed all of them! No, Ebster, I'm not going to attack....in fact Don's dizzying posts belong in a circus, somewhere next to the Carousel.....and the portable toilets!!! In earnest, GfS OH, P.S., Newsguy, I never said that I was backing them up....as a musician.....can't you read??...or get ANYTHING right??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Jun 10 - 01:31 AM He is counterattacking and defending himself, all right, Ebbie, but he isn't calling anyone a "racist", a "sexist", a "bigot", a "homophobe" or some other highly damning socio-political label like that which is impossible to disprove AND impossible to defend oneself against when accused of it (just like back when they were calling people "witches"...there was no possible defence against such a charge...any attempt you made to defend yourself was only taken to be proof of your guilt...and silence was likewise taken to be proof of your guilt). He's saying that people have made stupid comments about him that aren't true. Fine. He has a right to say that if he wants to, and it's not the same thing as calling someone a racist, a bigot, a homophobe or some other such hate label. It's the hate labels I object to, because they are used as a single-word way of symbolically destroying and casting out another person, and they are used in far too glib and unsubstantiated a manner by people...mainly to satisfy the ill will of the person using them. If, on the other hand, you say that you think something someone here said about you was "stupid" or incorrect...well, fine...that's your opinion, and I don't see anything wrong with stating it. That's just a matter of individual opinion, and it doesn't condemn the other person the way those hate labelling words do. People here are quick to label someone else a "bigot" or a "racist" or a "sexist" or an "antisemite" or some other hate label like that because they figure it'll really hurt the other person, they know there's no possible way of defending oneself against it, and it satisfies their spiteful desire to immediately strike out and hurt the other person. I think it's a mean and shitty thing to do to someone you're talking to, and I wish people here would stop doing it. It's also a damned lazy way of conducting an argument. You'd think they could discuss the actual subject matter of the debate, rather than just falling back on their favorite damnation word...but they'd rather make hate-labeling character attacks that cannot be defended once the accusation is hurled. That's the way you got a witch burned in Salem. Fortunately, we aren't in Salem anymore, but the same Inquisition-style tactics are still being used by the "righteous" to silence their opposition. And people get away with it. All the time. Providing they go after a target that has no practical way of defending itself against the charge. If you disagree with a person..............DEBATE the points they have raised! Respond with reasoned points of your own. Do that instead of labelling them a "racist", a "bigot", a "homophobe", an "antisemite", or a "sexist". The hate labels don't lead anywhere. They bring communication between people to a full stop. They encourage nothing but hatred between people. They arouse fury in the person they are directed at, and you'd know that if YOU were that person. They are the tactics of the Inquisition and the High Executioner. They shed no useful light whatsoever on any situation. And they are a symptom of mental laziness besides...not to mention, excessive pride. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 07 Jun 10 - 01:42 AM Sure, GfS, sure. Yada yada yada. . . . . . . full of sound and fury, signifying nothing! Don Firth P. S. By the way, here's a hint: never take a laxative. If you do, your head will shrink down to the size and general shape of a raisin. No need to thank me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: mousethief Date: 07 Jun 10 - 01:43 AM P. S. By the way, here's a hint: never take a laxative. If you do, your head will shrink down to the size and general shape of a raisin. What's your evidence it's any larger now? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 07 Jun 10 - 02:13 AM Thank you, Little Hawk, for your voice of reason. You'd think that some of these sycophants of society, would appreciate the people whose tax dollars are keeping their sorry asses alive!..rather than projecting onto them the same lame, lazy psychic vampire world they think from! They even invent new 'causes' for us to pay for, just to launder their guilt, and distract everyone from the fact that they're just another deadbeat on the dole!...(They call it being a 'political activist'!!!!) Yo-Ho!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Wesley S Date: 07 Jun 10 - 07:36 AM If I read GfS's post correctly it didn't state that it was a back-up musician for Black performers - just that it had profitable business ventures with Blacks. Of course plantation owners can say the same thing. That doesn't make one a racist. The only was we can guess the intentions of someone here is by what they say for themselves { very few of you know that I taught Pete Seegar how to play the banjo,Louis Armstrong how to play the cornet, Jimi Hendrix how to play the guitar and John Coltrane how to play the sax. On different days of course[and I was the fifth Beatle} }. So if someone compares Michelle Obama to a gorilla they should not be suprised if others would make the leap to consider that person a racist. Esp if there were no links or explanations going further with a reason behind that comparison. So let's leave the poor thing alone. It's suffered the slings and arrows of outragous fortune enough. If it left we'd all just have to get along with each other. And how much fun would that be? It's Monday. A good day to go practice the guitar.Who cares if anyone else is gay - or not? Don't we have better things to do? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: John P Date: 07 Jun 10 - 10:28 AM I, too, would like to talk about the issues instead of each other. HOWEVER, Little Hawk, you are saying that we should not confront and name bigotry when it raises its ugly head. Many of us think that not speaking in the face of bigotry and hate is to tacitly endorse and permit them. I agree that nothing we say will change the mind or the heart of the bigot one whit, but that's not the reason we choose to vocally oppose them. As for GfS's claims: By the way, the first real band I was in, in the mid 60's was four back up vocalists, behind a lead singer....all black!.. My credits include, Tina Turner, Michael Jackson and I have met Stevie Wonder on several occasions. I know that GfS is language-challenged, but I see no way to read this that doesn't imply it was in Tina Turner's and Michael Jackson's bands. As to whether the United States will elect an openly gay president sooner than other countries, I doubt it. We still have lots of officially sanctioned discrimination going on. Until we have laws against this discrimination and a couple of generations for people to learn how to behave, I don't see it. That's about how long it took us to elect a partially black president after we outlawed official bigotry against African-Americans. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 07 Jun 10 - 10:58 AM Wesley(Whose myoptic lameness started this whole thing): " So if someone compares Michelle Obama to a gorilla they should not be suprised if others would make the leap to consider that person a racist." You missed your calling. You should have been a coordinator to the high jumpers for the Special Olympics. Ironic, you didn't climb all over me for being anti-Semitic comparing Woody Allen to a cartoon character from 'Toy Story'. Selective name calling....besides, he's not signing your checks Yeah, go practice your guitar, while waiting for your benefits. Here, just for you to practice: http://www.altorecorder.com/PDFs/Kumbayah.PDF John P; "I know that GfS is language-challenged, but I see no way to read this that doesn't imply......" ".....That John is reading comprehension challenged." See if ol' Wes has a career for you in high jumping! Enough. Oh, and P.S. again. This was NOT a slur about the 'Special Olympics'. I'm not the President! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ebbie Date: 07 Jun 10 - 11:25 AM "...you didn't climb all over me for being anti-Semitic comparing Woody Allen to a cartoon character from 'Toy Story' GfS Funny. It didn't even occur to me that this remark was anti-Semitic, only that it referred to Woody Allen's persona and slight body. While comparing Michelle Obama to a gorilla could refer ONLY to her color, therefore making it a racist statement. BTW, disclaiming intent while making outrageous comments doesn't make the comments any less outrageous. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Jun 10 - 11:37 AM John, you said, "HOWEVER, Little Hawk, you are saying that we should not confront and name bigotry when it raises its ugly head." No. That is not what I'm saying. I'm saying that you shouldn't call another person whom you are having a discussion WITH a bigot, and you shouldn't confuse political attack aimed at ONE public individual with the more generalized form of hatred toward groups of people that we call "bigotry". I took exception to GfS comparing Michelle Obama to a chimp, because it was unfair to Michelle Obama herself, but I didn't call GfS a bigot for doing it. And I'll tell you why. Number 1, I DON'T call another human being a bigot when I'm having a conversation with them. That's a good way of torpedoing the conversation and ending ANY chance of further useful communication. Number 2, it isn't necessarily bigotry or racism to depict one political figure you don't like as a chimp. It's simply a personal attack on that political figure, that's all. Just about everyone here spent much time comparing George Bush Jr. to a chimp and laughing at pictures of Bush next to pictures of chimps or cartoons of Bush as a chimp or a monkey. Ha! Ha! We all (almost all) thought it was very funny, didn't we? Was it racism? No. Was it bigotry? No. It wasn't aimed at White people as a race. It was simply a nasty personal attack on George Bush. But we were all for that, because we didn't agree with George Bush politically, right? We loved it! ;-) I've seen caricatures of Iran's Ahmadinejad done up as an ape too. I've seen similar caricatures of Iran's Ayatollahs done up as apes. Many Iranians no doubt get very angry over that, just like Americans would get angry if it was coming back the other way, but the reason such caricatures of specific political individuals are done is NOT because of their race...it's because of the politics. GfS doesn't like the Obamas strictly in a political sense as far as I know. Therefore he launches personal attacks on them, as we all do on political figures we don't like. He doesn't like either the Democratic or the Republican parties, and he has repeatedly criticized them both for what they have done when in office. His attack was not made on a whole racial group, it was a personal attack on Michelle Obama, for political reasons, in my opinion. That's unfair to Michelle Obama, because it implies that she is stupid and ugly, which is not true, but it's not an attack on Black people as a group. It's simply a personal attack on Michelle Obama. If a cartoonist, for example, were to routinely caricature ALL Blacks or ALL Whites or ALL Jews or ALL Iranians to make them look apelike....THEN it would clearly be bigotry. No doubt about it. If a cartoonist, however, attacks only a specific political figure of ANY race or culture in that fashion, he's making a demeaning personal attack on that politician, but he is not demonstrating bigotry. Bigotry applies right across the board to a whole cultural group or race, it doesn't just go after one person. For instance, the Nazis went after ALL Jews, didn't they? On principle. That's bigotry. And for instance, there was a time in the 1800s when cartoonists in many North American publications portrayed ALL Irish immigrants to America as apelike, ugly primitives. THAT was bigotry. I see no evidence whatsoever that GfS despises and is against Black people in general, therefore I see no evidence of bigotry on his part. What I do see evidence of is that he made an inappropriately insulting remark about Michelle Obama which I don't see any reason for making.....but, hey! How many insulting remarks have been made here about George Bush or Sarah Palin? Hundreds. Thousands. And did we object to that? No. Not except for a few like DougR, Bearded Bruce, and pdq. Most of us really enjoy making demeaning and insulting remarks about political figures we don't like. We aren't demonstrating bigotry in so doing, we aren't demonstrating racism in so doing, we're just demonstrating the usual nastiness and killer instinct that politics seems to bring out in just about anybody...and not one of us is innocent of that. In fact...we're quite proud of ourselves, aren't we? ;-D It's always considered perfectly allright to throw insulting crap at "the other side", and we all do it....but oh, my! What a fuss when the other side does it back to US! Think about it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Jun 10 - 11:52 AM It was a political attack, Ebbie. Comparing a person to an ape implies a number of things about that person. It implies that they are stupid, that they are primitive, and that they are silly looking or ugly looking. It is not, by definition, an attack on their race regardless of what race we are talking about, unless it is routinely directed by the attacker at the members of that race in general. I see no evidence that GfS routinely attacks Black people in general, I only see evidence that he attacks the Obamas politically, same as you or I have many times attacked George Bush or Dick Cheney politically. GfS doesn't like Bush and Cheney either, by the way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Jun 10 - 11:56 AM 200! Yadda yadda. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Wesley S Date: 07 Jun 10 - 12:18 PM Little Hawk - You seem to have an amazing talent for knowing the unknowable. How is it that you are able to define the motives of someone you've never met { we assume } and don't really know? And is there anyone you would not defend? Tell the truth. Haven't you ever just said "That guy's a blithering idiot - a real wanker". Or does everyone have noble motives that we mere mortals are unable to see? In a general sense { I'm not talking about anyone in particular } - Sometimes what you see IS what you get. Some people are just jerks. But you always seem to be able to defend anyone and everyone. Charles Manson is just misunderstood and really has a good side after all. I suspect your capacity to endure BS is a lot better than mine. My hat's off to you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: John P Date: 07 Jun 10 - 12:19 PM Little Hawk, please pay attention. I didn't say that GfS was bigoted against blacks. I said it made a comparison that is a common racial slur and recommended that it acknowledge that. I also said it shouldn't be surprised that people assume it is bigoted against blacks because it is, demonstrably, bigoted against homosexuals and it made a comment that lots of people know has been widely used in a racist way. So yes, I called it a bigot, but not against blacks. What do you think should happen when people make overtly bigoted comments? Should we just ignore them and let the comment stand? How is that not a tacit agreement with the comment? Isn't public shaming one of the tools against those who speak with a bigoted voice? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ebbie Date: 07 Jun 10 - 12:46 PM Little Hawk, let's see if I understand: If I make a comment about a political figure I don't like or respect but in so doing I display a characteristic of that person that is commonly used by bigots, my comment is not bigoted? Say that the politician I don't like is widely known to make back room deals- wouldn't portraying him or her in a back room be legitimate thing? If the politician is Black or a Jew or Hispanic and instead of showing the back room I draw him or her as a caricature of that person's race, is that not racist or bigotry? Incidentally Hitler's government and press routinely showed the Jew as being less than human, but since they usually depicted only ONE person at a time you couldn't call it bigoted, could you now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 07 Jun 10 - 01:15 PM While the OPINIONATED idiots on the far left, think it obsolete, for Christians to teach creationism, they point to Darwin, for his THEORY of us all coming from apes...then get their shorts in a twist when someone points out that ONE certain picture, causes another certain person to resemble an ape..IN THAT PICTURE ALONE. Methinks it points to hypocrisy, and them not having their minds develop anything near past an ape!!!!!..Even apes aren't that hypocritical. It all goes to prove.."If you turn-on a lame, what you get is a turned-on lame!!!" oh, by the way......and these were doctored The pic I was referring to was not doctored..it was just a candid, in the moment snap. Now get off it!..Go have your bowl of 'Fruit Loops' Oh, and while your at it....are you going to object to the pic of Bush???? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 07 Jun 10 - 01:23 PM I was looking for it..but found this one instead... Not as good as the one I saw before...but... GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 07 Jun 10 - 01:35 PM Jeez!...I only saw one of these!...The one to which I was referring was the bottom middle one. ....and I am in NO WAY meaning it as a racial slur, but ribbing Little Hawk, as to his taste in women!!!! jeez, I only saw one of these...... ..and I think Little Hawk got it.....and is mature enough to take the kidding. Sorry for some of you! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Stringsinger Date: 07 Jun 10 - 01:53 PM The most important thing a chief executive must have is executive skills. It doesn't matter whether a president is of a particular race or sexual orientation. Here's what an executive does. He/she decides on a course of action based on many different ideas, wades through them all and makes an educated guess. If an executive is too creative, his/her ideas may abound but get in the way of selection. If an executive is too insular and not good with people, then those people get left out of the equation when making a decision. A C.E.O for a corporation is not a good model for a president. They are concerned with the financial interest of the corporation and its shareholders. Remember at one time BP and Goldman Sachs were considered to be top companies. Would you want Lloyd Blankfein or Tony Hayward running the US? Public service requires a total vision of what is good for the country. When we elect a president, it's important to consider whether that chief executive knows how to run the country and not just how to get elected. It wouldn't matter if the president had the qualifications mentioned above if he/she were tri-sexual. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Wesley S Date: 07 Jun 10 - 01:54 PM GfS - Your 15 minutes were up a long time ago. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ebbie Date: 07 Jun 10 - 01:56 PM Well, I guess you gotta get your jollies somewhere. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Jun 10 - 02:05 PM Great. ;-) We're actually talking about some stuff now. Okay... Let's start with Wesley. "You seem to have an amazing talent for knowing the unknowable." I don't KNOW for certain what GfS's motives are, Wesley, but I suspect, based on hundreds and hundreds of posts I've read already by Gfs, that his dislike of Michelle and Barack Obama is based on their political position, not their racial profile. And I have seen no evidence that he is prejudiced against Black people in general...just against politicians he doesn't like. I'm not saying that all his motives are "noble", I'm just saying that there is no solid basis for calling him a "bigot". Note, Wesley that you are extrapolating my various statements all to some ridiculous extreme...therefore you appear to think you can read my mind. ;-) No, I do not think everyone has absolutely noble motives. Matter of fact, I think many people here are out to hurt other people whom they disagree with, and that's why they say the mean things they say. It was mean of GfS to compare Michelle Obama to a chimp, and it's mean of other people to slap him with the "racist" or "bigot" tag for doing it. "And is there anyone you would not defend?" I'll defend anyone when they're attacked in an inappropriate manner. I just defended Michelle Obama AND GfS on that basis. I'll defend you on that basis when you are unfairly attacked. However, I will not defend you when you attack someone else unfairly. Clear? **** John P - Righto. I follow your reasoning. "I said it made a comparison that is a common racial slur and recommended that it acknowledge that." Fine. I have no problem with that, but it doesn't necessarily guarantee that you will get such acknowlegement. I also indicated to GfS that I thought there was no basis for insulting Michelle Obama in such a fashion. "it is, demonstrably, bigoted against homosexuals" I've read a lot of stuff GfS has posted about homosexuals, and I honestly do not believe he is a bigot in regards to homosexuals. You believe he is. Okay, we have a different opinion about that then. "What do you think should happen when people make overtly bigoted comments?" I think we should take issue with the comment itself, and present an alternative view of our own. I do not think we should yell "bigot" at the other person, because then it's not a debate anymore, it's a verbal street fight, and that accoplishes nothing. I took issue with the comment, and because I respect GfS (after long online acquaintance), I simply said "She looks fine to me." What I was thereby saying to Gfs was: "You have no basis for saying that about Michelle Obama." Good enough. He can respond to that if he wants to, but we've still got a discussion, don't we, rather than a verbal street fight? Public shaming, John, is something people love to do to others, but I don't think there's a very healthy instinct behind it. It has been used too often by sadists and oppressors of all sorts to intimidate and destroy those they dislike...or just for their own satisfaction...and you know what it stirs in the heart of the one so shamed? It stirs a deep desire for revenge upon the one doing the shaming. I don't recommend it. What I do recommend is that one oppose a view one considers wrongful with reasoned arguments that make clear the wrongfullness and error of that view. In other words, don't attack the person...attack the foundation of the person's argument. There is absolutely no foundation for comparing Michelle Obama to a gorilla, in my opinion, and that is what I would focus on. ***** Ebbie - "Little Hawk, let's see if I understand: If I make a comment about a political figure I don't like or respect but in so doing I display a characteristic of that person that is commonly used by bigots, my comment is not bigoted?" It might be. Or it might not be. That depends on a whole bunch of different possibilities about YOU and what you're thinking at the time you make the comment. You may actually intend bigotry or you may not. How do we know for sure? To simply leap to the conclusion that you ARE intending bigotry and are therefore "a bigot" is to do what's convenient for the person leaping to the conclusion...but the conclusion may or may not be a correct one. You might simply be attacking the individual...but not the generic group of people the individual is a member of. And my impression of GfS, based on long acquaintance, is that GfS does not attack Black people on the basis of race. "If the politician is Black or a Jew or Hispanic and instead of showing the back room I draw him or her as a caricature of that person's race, is that not racist or bigotry?" It might be. Is drawing someone as an ape a caricature of the person's race? How so? Or is it simply a caricature of the person? It could be either. Are you saying that it has to be bigotry whenever it's about a Black, a Jew or a Hispanic...but it isn't bigotry when it's about a White person who belongs to no "visible minority"? How so? Is it impossible to be bigoted against the White majority? Or are we all just reacting to current popular political trends instead of thinking indepently and assessing situations intelligently and on their own merits? Are minority people themselves capable of bigotry? Evidence suggests that they are. Everyone is capable of bigotry...but why are only certain types of bigotry deemed worthy of recognition in the present milieu? And is that fair or objective? "Incidentally Hitler's government and press routinely showed the Jew as being less than human, but since they usually depicted only ONE person at a time you couldn't call it bigoted, could you now." Ha! ;-D You could have saved yourself the trouble of typing that, Ebbie. You know as well as I do that the Nazi administration attacked all the Jews as a group. They attacked everyone who was a Jew, merely because they were Jews. That is definitely bigotry, there's no doubt about it, and you know it. I have no reason whatsoever at this point to believe that GfS attacks Blacks as a group, merely because they are Black. He has a political bone to pick with the Obamas. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Bonzo3legs Date: 07 Jun 10 - 02:05 PM I would suggest that a diet of vindaloo curries and guiness would cure such a president!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Wesley S Date: 07 Jun 10 - 02:27 PM By the Little Hawk - So far I've not called GfS a bigot. I have no way of knowing if it's a bigot or not. What I've suspected from the comments it's made already is that it's so starved for attention that it will make all kinds of remarks just to be noticed. Bigoted remarks don't neccessarily make one a bigot. What I suspect is that GfS is scared to death that we will stop paying attention. Sort of like a two year old. Negative attention is better than none. And that's what GfS might be getting in the 3D world. The Mudcat is a safe haven for a lot of trolls. And if trolls can come here to let off steam then so be it. Better than ending up like that poor sod of an Englishman a few days ago that drove around killing people with a shotgun. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 07 Jun 10 - 02:33 PM Good God, GfS! You just insist on digging yourself in deeper!!! In the meantime—you've made some allegations about me above, so to set the record straight: Again, GfS, you descend to personal attacks while knowing nothing about the person you are attacking. What little you do know, you twist into the worst possible interpretation, then vomit it out as an attack. As to my lack of accomplishments, I'd say I haven't done too badly. As a singer, from the late 1950s to the late 1960s, I made a fairly good living singing folk songs and ballads, and worked steadily as a singer in clubs (not folk clubs, night clubs) and coffeehouses (for regular pay, not for tips), doing concerts, mostly at colleges and universities, all up and down the Pacific Coast, across to eastern Canada, in Michigan, Montana, Colorado. Not just house concerts (many of those), but concerts in theaters and concert halls. This, along with a fair amount of television, including an educational television series on Seattle's local PBS affiliate. I'm still singing, but not quite as actively as I used to—by choice. If I want to do more concerts, all I need do is make a couple of telephone calls. That's not bragging. That's a fact! I'm currently writing a great deal and putting together programs for a series CDs. In addition, I have taught both classical guitar and folk techniques to many hundreds of people in both private lessons and classes. Several of my former students went on to have successful careers in music. I was never a hippy. I do not smoke dope and I have never taken drugs. To attempt to fill in some of the deficiencies in your education, GfS, there is more to being an on-the-air announcer at a classical music radio station than merely sitting there playing records as one might do at home. Stations don't pay AFTRA wages for their announcers to just sit there and do nothing while a recording of a symphony or an opera is playing. While keeping an ear on the in-studio monitor, the announcer uses that time to do such things as prepare for the next newscast and line up the next group of commercial and public service announcements, along with maintaining both the program and transmitter logs. This, in addition to taping new commercials and PSAs. And unlike quite a number of other people, broadcasting was not a major ambition of mine, although I have the voice and I was good at it. From the late 1960s into the late 1970s, it was my "day job." I did not "abandon" my wife and son to pursue a career in radio, as you're trying to claim I did. The mother of my son and I were not married. [Have a ball with that, GfS!! You will undoubtedly put the sleaziest possible spin on that because you, yourself, are a sleazy person.] She was unhappily married to a man who was much older than she was, and they had not been married for more than a few months when she decided that she'd made a grave mistake. GfS, you have no understanding of the depth of emotions such as love. To you, that sort of thing is limited to the area of the crotch. You have displayed that you have no concept of such things. You would make the story of Romeo and Juliet something petty and tawdy. In the case of my emotional relationship with my son's mother, think "Tristan and Isolde," but with the presumption that Isolde and King Mark were already married. I'm talking WAY over your head, aren't I! But that was pretty much the situation. You, however, would turn that into something mean and sleazy, because that's the kind of person you are. "I just read that your most recent struggled accomplishment was getting your Medi-caid/Welfare package in the mail!!... Hats off, and congratulations on you latest achievement!"No "struggle" on my part, GfS. And it wasn't Medicaid, it was a Medicare package that I received in the mail. As did every other person in Washington State—or the country, as far as I know. It was an announcement—a mass mailing—to all potential Medicare recipients about the new benefits that had been added to the Medicare program. I posted that in rebuttal to someone's remark that Obama had "killed" Medicare. Obviously, as that timely mailing showed, untrue. And as to a "Welfare package," I am not on welfare, as you, in your cheesy way, are trying to imply. Both my wife and I are now retired. We are not wealthy, but we are reasonably well off and self-sufficient. We both receive Social Security benefits, as does everyone over retirement age—and for which Barbara and I have paid all our working lives. But we have also made some reasonably good investments, following the excellent suggestions of our financial advisor, and we receive some income from that. Unlike the vast majority of Americans, apparently, Barbara and I own our own home, free and clear. No mortage. And we are completely debt free. We do use a credit card for convenience' sake, but we pay off the entire amount every month. Can you say that, GfS? And as to Medicare, although both Barbara and I qualify for it, we rarely use it, because we have quite good private health insurance. As to my son, we are the best of friends and have been for years. No anger. No resentment. Never did have any. He totally understands the situation his mother and I were in and agrees that we did what was necessary for the benefit of all concerned. He and I share a lot of interests. He graduated from college in Canada with a degree in Philosophy. He was worked in movies, on the film crew (key grip), and has written a couple of screen plays and is waiting for a good opportunity to market them. In the meantime, he works as a writer with a consulting firm, often under contract to the Canadian government, on environmental issues. He and his partner (a lovely young woman) come out to Seattle a couple times a year and stay with Barbara and me, generally for a couple of weeks. They're looking forward to moving out here permanently. But you, GfS, just don't understand things like that, do you? Don't bother to try to answer this. Since you are an established liar and slanderer, you have nothing to say that I care about. Now—back to our regular broadcast. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Jun 10 - 04:29 PM Yes, Wesley, Mudcat is a safe haven for trolls, soreheads, perennial complainers, passive-agressive individuals harbouring resentment, internet addicts (like me), and all sorts of people with very restless minds and too much time on their hands who want to fight with someone else about something that ain't gonna change either one of them one iota. ;-) Don't I know it! It is that way because the management here allow it to be that way, and therefore it continues. You wouldn't find that on most public forums, because most are far more strictly moderated than this one, but it does make for some interesting interchange from time to time. All I'm saying here is that one is better off to respond to the argument itself rather than launching character attacks on the arguer. As for the personal vendettas that go on and on and on here between certain individuals...they go on like that for one basic reason: the people engaging in them are too proud (or insecure) to just let go of the bone of contention they're chewing on and let the other guy else get away with having "the last word". That would mean "defeat", wouldn't it? Unthinkable!!! ;-D I draw comfort from the fact that 100 years from now no one will know about any of this or give a damn either, and the world will still be turning. Time is the great leveler when it comes to that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Wesley S Date: 07 Jun 10 - 05:06 PM "I draw comfort from the fact that 100 years from now no one will know about any of this or give a damn either, and the world will still be turning." 100 years? How about next week? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Jun 10 - 05:46 PM LOL! Yeah, that sounds like a good estimate, Wesley. Meanwhile, this question comes to me: Is it time for a gay, nondenominational, handicapped, redheaded, necrophiliac, 12-toed, suspenders-wearing, butterly collecting, lefthanded, sado-masochistic Orangutan with ADD to be elected president of the USA? Or is it a little too soon to be venturing into such uncharted waters? Is the public just not ready for this transition??? Have we matured as a society to the point where such a candidate would be taken seriously and given equal respect? Tune in at 6:00 PM on Friday for the mindblowing answer to this incredibly important question!!!!!!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Wesley S Date: 07 Jun 10 - 05:50 PM It will have to be native born and have the papers to prove it. And be over 35 years old. I assume that's 35 HUMAN years..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Jun 10 - 06:08 PM Good point. I'm not quite sure what the lifespan of Orangutans is when they have access to modern medical care, but I think it may be reasonably similar to that of a human being. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 07 Jun 10 - 06:27 PM Just for the record, and in case some of you were not aware, when I posted the post mentioning a couple of gredits, Turner, Jackson and Gil Scott Heron,..I also mentioned a guy named James Baldwin, who toward the last 15 0r 17 years of his life, we became close friends. For all you ultra liberal know-it-alls, who more than likely never heard of him, and to those of you who have accused me of being racist, bigoted, or homophobic; it occurred to me, why not 'enlighten the 'oh so hip liberals(?)...so, why not.....Here: just in case you wanted NOT to know... Thank you for your embarrassment, to yourselves! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ebbie Date: 07 Jun 10 - 06:37 PM Just to point out how very out of touch with us you are, what on earth makes you postulate that we wouldn't know who James Baldwin was? The embarrassment is - or should be - yours. (I read his bio in the link but danged if I couldn't find your name there. Knowing that anyone can claim>/em> anything, let me point out that you have not earned any credibility here. I met a man once that I needed to have dealings with and the one thing he kept harping on is that when he was in 7th grade of school he was working at college level. I have no idea whether his claim was true but the fact that he kept repeating it made me very leery of it. So, as far as I'm concerned, you can drop the braggadocio- you ain't convincin' anybuddy.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 Jun 10 - 06:55 PM It will have to be native born Where does it say that in your constitution? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: John P Date: 07 Jun 10 - 08:02 PM I don't think the Constitution mentions anywhere that the president has to be human, so maybe Chongo has a chance. Is he really gay? Interesting . . . next on Oprah: Gay chimps and the humans who handle them . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Wesley S Date: 07 Jun 10 - 08:27 PM Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1 No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States. Term limit amendment - US Constitution, Amendment XXII, Section 1 – ratified February 27, 1951 No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 07 Jun 10 - 09:18 PM Ebbie, Down here, the sky was blue. Almost sorry to have taken you off guard! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 07 Jun 10 - 09:34 PM I read some of James Baldwin's work back in the late '50s, early '60s. The only person who should be embarrassed here is you, GfS, to make the asinine assumption that we ultra liberal know-it-alls wouldn't know who he is. By the way, are you familiar with playwright August Wilson? Lived in Seattle. Died about five years ago. I didn't think so. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Jun 10 - 11:49 PM So....you ALL (meaning both GfS and the rest of you who are fighting with him here) want "the other guy" (or the other gal) to be embarrassed over either not knowing who James Baldwin was? Or embarrassed because you thought someone else didn't know who James Baldwin was? Get a life! The only thing you should all be embarrassed about at this point is your apparent inability to stop engaging in puerile personal vendettas and trying to humiliate each other in some way or another. What a silly spectacle it is. A pissing contest like this one should provide enough "juice" to irrigate California, if all else fails...but what a stench when it starts to ferment! GfS - Thanks for the biographical link. James Baldwin was a very interesting man indeed, and a major figure in the social struggles of the 50s and 60s. I remember seeing his books around at the time, and hearing about him, don't think I read any of them, though. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: mousethief Date: 08 Jun 10 - 12:15 AM LH, where did you reprimand ichMael for implying that Obama was gay? I'd like to think you were even-handed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ebbie Date: 08 Jun 10 - 12:52 AM nah, Little Hawk scolds very selectively. He hasn't realized yet that he's not on the side of the angels on this one. :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 08 Jun 10 - 01:25 AM With some folks, self-righteous pomposity is like a drug. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest fron Sanity Date: 08 Jun 10 - 01:40 AM Thanks, Little Hawk!..Sometimes even I can get caught up battling dummies, as if you can teach a pig to sing! My personal experiences should remain my own...though I was mistaken to believe that someone might have been interested in learning of them. The quote that I have used on here, "Left wing and right wing are on the same bird", was one of his that he told me personally, and when needed, I've quoted him. Just to give credit, where credit is due. Yo-Ho, GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 08 Jun 10 - 05:57 AM ""While the OPINIONATED idiots on the far left, think it obsolete, for Christians to teach creationism, they point to Darwin, for his THEORY of us all coming from apes...then get their shorts in a twist when someone points out that ONE certain picture, causes another certain person to resemble an ape."" Well, bigot or not, one thing is for sure. GfS knows diddly squat about Darwin's theory of evolution. At no time did Charles Darwin make any reference to Man coming from Apes. His theory shows Apes and Man as separately evolved branches of the tree. This Man from Apes misquote is the desperate subterfuge of those who would like to deny evolution and cannot find any credible argument against it. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ed T Date: 08 Jun 10 - 07:22 AM Should there not be a mudcat thread for personal attacks? This would save all the drifts that take many threads far off topic....and make them less interesting to those not in the attacking mood, at the time, anyway:) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Wesley S Date: 08 Jun 10 - 07:27 AM The initial concept of this thread was a personal attack. So there can't be much in the way of thread drift on this one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 08 Jun 10 - 11:30 AM Personal attacks happen when people are blocked from learning, by EXCHANGING IDEAS...and being set in one's ways, is a sign of a 'less than open' mind. Why do you think that a lot on here have only stuck to folk music..or the blues (3 chords), for 40 years, or so???!!?? As for myself, I am NOT a political 'activist' of any sort! That being said, I can be more flexible as to understanding different concepts, other than my own...unless it contradicts known science FACTS. Political 'liberals' are NOT known for being open minded, despite how they fancy themselves....but rather seek advantage, from the work of others! They cite the Constitutionality, of equal rights, but not much more, and would rather do away with virtually every other part, that does NOT entitle them to a free handout...instead of safeguarding the rights, that give people the freedom to work, and build FOR THEMSELVES. They see themselves as 'disadvantaged'..and project that mindset onto everyone else, assuming that nobody outside themselves will notice. The reverse of that, is often 'Conservatives', just want to protect their avarice...they are seen as uncaring, yet donate more of their money, usually for tax breaks, to charity, than causes. Liberals spend more of their time donated....but then, they have more time to 'donate'...sot of a way to launder their inactivity, for DOING for their families, and themselves! Now, of course, that might piss some of you off, to read that, but before your shorts get so twisted, that parts of you begin to turn black and blue, think for a minute, of the people you know, even of yourselves...and you will find that what I said is true!..though I'm quite sure, you won't be able to admit it...because of a certain dishonesty employed, to protect your own personal disadvantage!!!...which in turn, feeds your 'sense of entitlement'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OK, now you can resume your lame personal attacks, (as if you have much to say), GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: frogprince Date: 08 Jun 10 - 12:23 PM Well, your syntax, is, still pretty, tortured, but I think I can grope through to most of, what you're, trying to, other than that, this time. And I actually believe you've made something of an effort at fairness, for which you should get a bit of credit. But admitting that conservatives may sometimes donate money largely for the tax breaks is a rather small sop to offer to compensate for a lot of hallucinatory exposition about the motivation of liberals. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 08 Jun 10 - 02:25 PM Who died and left you boss..or judge? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ebbie Date: 08 Jun 10 - 02:51 PM For your,information frog,prince is, my newest hero. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 08 Jun 10 - 03:11 PM I already had figured that out!! By the way, Brainiac, when you posted, "(I read his bio in the link but danged if I couldn't find your name there."..just what name were you looking for????..Mine??..and what name is that??? ..Just more of your lame prattling! ...and chances are, you never heard of him till you read the link! You were just playing to the mob!..trying desperately hard to be tragically hip! Ok super hero, come to her rescue!...beat me with your purse, and sachet away! Great Piece of Music, that Applies! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 08 Jun 10 - 06:22 PM A point or two regarding a couple of GfS's recent observations: GfS: "Why do you think that a lot on here have only stuck to folk music..or the blues (3 chords), for 40 years, or so???!!??"A narrow, stereotyped idea of what many serious singers of folk songs do. One folk singer I know was also a classical violinist. Another was a jazz musician with a degree in music. And I could list dozens of others. I, myself, started out with an interest in opera, and to enhance my own performances of folk songs and ballads, took singing lessons, studied music first in a major university music department, then transferred to a music conservatory—and spent several years studying classical guitar. My accompaniments usually use quite a bit more than merely three chords. And by far, I am not the only one here who is fully aware that folk music can be, and is, a serious academic and musical study, and who approach it as such. Also, whether one sings or not, traditional songs are a serious study in themselves: in music, English literature, poetry, and anthropology, not to mention history. So GfS's comment is either a cheesy attempt to belittle those frequenting this forum who do not agree with him, or a betrayal of his own ignorance of the field—or both. GfS: "Personal attacks happen when people are blocked from learning, by EXCHANGING IDEAS...and being set in one's ways, is a sign of a 'less than open' mind."Do a bit of a spot-check on this and other threads upon which GfS has posted and see for yourself who is, by far, the greatest user of personal attacks. Then ask yourself, "Who here is really 'blocked from learning . . . and being set in one's ways.' And who, then, is showing a sign of a 'less than open mind.'" You'll get a real snort out of that statement! And his comments about liberals in general show an abysmal ingnorance of political philosphy. The dull-witted often have a very difficult time comprehending what goes on in the minds of those more intelligent than themselves, as GfS more than amply demonstrates. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: frogprince Date: 08 Jun 10 - 06:29 PM I'm, sorry but, poor little, Ebbie will just, have to def,end her self; I'm sitting here all curled up, traumitized, by the, things you just said to me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Wesley S Date: 08 Jun 10 - 07:17 PM Since this thread all started over a silly internet rumor that the President was gay - I'll pass on that CNN just reported another internet rumor that Barak Obama was in a rap video. The song was called "Whoop - there it is" and you should be able to find it if you look hard enough. I'll admit that the fella pictured does look something like Obama but with a hat and glasses on it could be almost anybody. There you go - Silly internet rumor of the day. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Wesley S Date: 08 Jun 10 - 07:21 PM The person they mention is pictured just after the guy who slam dunks a basket. Whoomp There it is - Tag Team |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: frogprince Date: 08 Jun 10 - 07:33 PM Yes, that's definitely Obama in the video; you can tell by that gay smile. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Wesley S Date: 08 Jun 10 - 07:36 PM And the bling too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: frogprince Date: 08 Jun 10 - 07:39 PM He's so gay, I bet he thinks this thread is about him, Don't he, don't he... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 09 Jun 10 - 04:35 AM Now there goes Don, AGAIN...promoting himself, and his delusions of grandeur. He goes off, on his classical training, and how folk musicians study more than three chords, and goes off on this big ol' giant premise, of how astute he is in his musical prowess...which is all fine and dandy(he never misses an opportunity to puff his chest out)..however, he, once again is going off onto a tangent! My quote was: "....or the blues (3 chords),..."..as in 1-4-5..and back to the 1. Now I'm aware that some blue tunes incorporate a 4th chord, and some even have substitutions..but basically, its 1-4-1-5-4-1, or 1-4-1-4-5,4-1,4-5, and back to the 1-4-5...Three basic chords. My suggestion to Don is, put your bio on Wikipedia, so whenever anyone has the need......... As to Froggie, Don't you have a can of spinach in your blouse, somewhere?...You'll feel better! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: akenaton Date: 09 Jun 10 - 08:13 AM Sanity my friend, I read Baldwin's "Another Country" many years ago, and recognise the point you make. Don't be intimidated by the people here who try to clip your wings, these forums should be a vehicle for flight, not a pair of gumboots to allow us to wallow in the mud. I remember the sense of anger which pervaded James Baldwins writing, not anger at society for being unable to understand his situation, but anger at himself for being "hooked" into the degradation which often accompanies the homosexual lifestyle. Baldwin was no victim.....like we see today, with their assorted "rights activists" and strident parades. He would be disgusted to see his "addiction" become a cause celebre. I was impossible to enjoy Baldwins work......much too disturbing, but with a ring of truth that many here would benefit from hearing! Perhaps not, leave them in their cosy little "liberal" Disneyland!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 09 Jun 10 - 01:36 PM GfS, you seem to resent people who can back up what they say with actual credentials rather than just the sort of unsubstantiated wild claims that you make about being an authority on every subject that comes up for discussion in order to try to lend weight to your feeble and baseless arguments. I cite my education and experience (which is easily documented), not for purposes of self-promotion (don't need it), but to give the lie to your constant implications that I (and others here) are merely lightweights compared to your august and exhaustive knowledge. (PTUI!!) And the extraneous details you threw into your attempt to slam me just above further display how little you really know and understand about folk music, blues, and pretty much everything else. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 10 Jun 10 - 03:20 AM Frotho: "GfS, you seem to resent people who can back up what they say with actual credentials rather than just the sort of unsubstantiated wild claims that you make about being an authority on every subject that comes up for discussion in order to try to lend weight to your feeble and baseless arguments." Hogwash!...and quit putting words in other people's mouths, so you can 'debate' your own conflicts! Akenaton: When I met Baldwin, it was in his latter years. He had mellowed quite a bit, and seemed to have walked away from some of his earlier positions..however, he was impressively quite articulate! I met him in Santa Fe, New Mexico..during one of his travels, and was introduced to him, by another very close friend of mine. I had never, at that time, ever read anything he had written, and only vaguely recognized his name, but we spent hours, round the clock chatting about his life, and sharing observations in life. although he did not elaborate over certain things in his past, we both grew a mutual respect for each other, and in time parted on great terms. I'd love to share the things we talked about, but would rather do that privately, so the 'extremely blocked' wouldn't trash it. All I can say, is he had returned to some of his very early beliefs. Regards...and nice to hear from you, again! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Wesley S Date: 10 Jun 10 - 07:13 AM To know you is to love you? Tell us more. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ebbie Date: 10 Jun 10 - 09:46 AM Oh, I thought perhaps you had met him in Paris during one of your frequent travels. How about Neil Armstrong? Where did you meet him? And how did that come about? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 10 Jun 10 - 12:34 PM Do you derive great pleasure being asses? So, the bottom line, is "Is it time for a gay president?".....Well, I suppose if his supporters ignore the truth, and are as out as touch, with the people, as they are, they got their guy!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Wesley S Date: 10 Jun 10 - 01:14 PM I have yet to see any evidence that this particular president is gay. If we had an openly gay person running for the office of president I'm sure the conservatives would run a similar smear campain like they did with Obama calling him a Muslim and a terrorist. A lot of us just don't care what two { or more } people do behind closed doors. It's just plain none of our business. I'd like to think that a candidate would be elected because of what they stood for - not who they had sex with. We'll see if a gay person ever runs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: frogprince Date: 10 Jun 10 - 01:36 PM Gfs, is it appropriate to take it from your 12:44 post that you personally belive that Obama is gay? Would you say that you are in general agreement with what IchMael has posted, and blogged, to that effect? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: frogprince Date: 10 Jun 10 - 01:37 PM correction, 12:34 post. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 10 Jun 10 - 01:55 PM Guest FROM sanity! The Eighth Wonder of the World! He manages to survive with his alimentary canal in backwards! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 10 Jun 10 - 02:55 PM Don't forget that when all else fails, a rousing chorus of... "Nyahh! Nyahh! Nyahh!" ...will reduce your average Internet opponent to tears and total stupefaction. ;-D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Wesley S Date: 10 Jun 10 - 02:57 PM "I know you are but what am I ?" always works well too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 10 Jun 10 - 09:16 PM Froggie, No, I didn't indicate one way or another whether I personally thought he was a homosexual or not. I've had homosexual friends or acquaintances, who were efficient at what they did, in regards to the work they did..some even very creative, in the arts. I don't see Obama as being like that. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: ichMael Date: 10 Jun 10 - 10:54 PM The problem with Obama and the homosexuality is that it's just another example of his lying. He's spent over two million dollars now covering up the records of his early life, so he's hiding something. Could be his sexual past. And the sex stuff is his business, but if he lied about it, then it's the voters' business. Also, he's blackmailable if he's gay. If this president is gay, he has to go, because he misrepresented himself and he's a liability to the country. He's a danger to the country. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 11 Jun 10 - 12:51 AM Most presidents lie a lot, don't they? I think it's a requirement of the job. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: mousethief Date: 11 Jun 10 - 01:23 AM And senators. And congresscritters. And governors. And mayors. And.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 11 Jun 10 - 01:34 AM Yeah. ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:55 AM ""Froggie, No, I didn't indicate one way or another whether I personally thought he was a homosexual or not."" No, you didn't do that. You just gave the shit a good stir, as is your wont, and promoted in Ichy's tiny mind, the idea that somebody thinks he's right. That must be so fulfilling for you. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Wesley S Date: 11 Jun 10 - 07:54 AM "And senators. And congresscritters. And governors. And mayors. And.... " And .... people who post to internet forums...... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ebbie Date: 11 Jun 10 - 02:38 PM And mothers. And fathers. And children. Anybody left? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: mousethief Date: 11 Jun 10 - 02:47 PM Nope, that's about all of us. Goes without saying. Making me wonder, why didn't it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 11 Jun 10 - 03:01 PM Ebbie: "And mothers. And fathers. And children. Anybody left?" YOU! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 11 Jun 10 - 04:05 PM Let us not forget about what is known as "the Fallacy of Self-Exclusion," gFs. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ebbie Date: 11 Jun 10 - 04:17 PM Are you saying that you have never lied, GfS? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:03 PM Ebbie. Don. Think how much better you could relate to GfS in these discussions if you didn't work from the initial premise that you already hate him...or despise him...or something along that line. ;-) It would put an entirely different slant on the conversation. Hitler could have done that regarding Jews too. He had the option to. Or Chongo could do it regarding gorillas. Or DougR could do it regarding Obama. So many hypothetical paths to better communication not taken! You know what I think? I think hostility is like a drug. People get addicted to the brief high it provides them, and they keep repeating the experience. That's addiction. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Wesley S Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:31 PM Jeez Little Hawk - stop trying to fix people. If they want to at it - let them. As Jefferson Airplane said - "It doesn't mean shit to a tree". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 11 Jun 10 - 07:56 PM That's true. ;-) Remember, Wesley, I talk for the same reason all of us do, simply because I enjoy putting my thoughts down in words. Yes, I realize that I probably can't change Ebbie or Don, because they'll do whatever they want to regardless of what I say, but I am enjoying expressing myself and making various observations, that's all. I'm thinking out loud, so to speak. Perhaps I am addicted to thinking out loud here, because it gives me something to do that's also fun (most of the time). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 11 Jun 10 - 09:39 PM And why, Little Hawk, do you single out Ebbie and me? You might want to check to see who around here really uses personal insults before you start popping off. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ebbie Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:03 PM Like I said, Little Hawk is selective. I suspect he doesn't even notice the words and phrases and mindsets of certain other people. Little Hawk, I respect you - but I do get awfully tired of your neat little boxes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 12 Jun 10 - 01:46 AM Well, there are some who are more addicted to their favorite vendettas than others, right? Riginslinger, for instance, is addicted to anti-religious vendettas, and I've taken issue with him over that on any number of occasions, because I think he takes it too far. We're all selective in one respect or another. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ebbie Date: 12 Jun 10 - 02:04 AM And you don't think Sanity Guest takes it too far? Amazing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ebbie Date: 12 Jun 10 - 02:05 AM Is he just another of your personae? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: mousethief Date: 12 Jun 10 - 02:44 AM We're all selective in one respect or another. Some animals are more selective than others. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: akenaton Date: 12 Jun 10 - 03:16 AM Little Hawk doesn't make the "boxes", he just points out the aesthetics.... You construct your own "boxes" Ebbs...you're becoming a bit paranoid. Chill out babe! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: akenaton Date: 12 Jun 10 - 03:35 AM Latest "gay" paedophile ring to make two pages in the Times. I suppose its just a "power" thing! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 12 Jun 10 - 01:19 PM Yeah, sometimes he does take it too far, Ebbie. And sometimes I've taken issue with something he said, but I don't get in an endless personal feud with him about it...I just disagree with what he says on that specific occasion, period. It's no reason for a feud. Given that he posts a lot of quite interesting stuff which I have no reason to disagree with (some in the music section too), plus some other stuff that I do disagree with (such as that quip characterizing Michelle Obama as a chimp), I can simply deal with him as just another person here whom I disagree with on occasion. I don't have to turn him into some horrible boogeyman that I'll fight with on principle every time he posts something. So I don't "rush to the barricades" every time he posts. ;-) My general impression is that you and Don do rush to the barricades every time GfS posts. Specially Don. And then GfS fights back, naturally, and the insults fly. And it goes on and on and on and on...like a running joke. And I comment on that. Seems like much ado about nothing to me. Why not just discuss the specific issue that is being discussed and leave the personal vendetta out of it? I don't think GfS would be hurling insults at you and Don had he not first been subjected to repeated insults. After all, he doesn't hurl insults at me, and we do not always agree about political matters by any means. We agree maybe half the time. That's okay with me. No sweat. Likewise, I don't hurl personal insults at DougR...though we virtually NEVER agree about politics. ;-) I get vehement about the subject sometimes, but I don't hurl insults at him. How would it help anything to do that? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: JohnInKansas Date: 12 Jun 10 - 02:51 PM The perfect example is right before us, in the country that does currently have an openly gay chief executive. Having quite recently had an unbelievable impact on Western European economies (one might say "earth shaking) this country within the past week or so made marriage between any two persons, regardless of sex, legal, by UNANIMOUS VOTE of their legislature. All we need do is sit back and watch their pending destruction (or perhaps just their continued relatively rational survivial). John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 12 Jun 10 - 02:55 PM Little Hawk, GfS hurls insults at anyone who disagrees with his outrageous assertions. Rather than trying to counter the arguments against what he is saying with logical debate, he descends to calling those who disagree with him stupid, ignorant, generally uneducated, or that most devastating epithet of all, "liberal!!" (Oh, horrors! I tremble!!). If you had actually paid attention to the many posts that GfS has made—instead of your knee-jerk reaction of stepping into the phone booth to change into your tights and cape—you would see that for yourself. YOUR problem is that you fancy yourself as "Little Hawk, Champion of the Underdog." The problem with that is that you don't seem to be able to distinguish between an underdog and Rottweiler with rabies. If I'm intolerant of certain examples of human behavior, it is because that behavior is intolerable in a civilized world. You take issue with Ebbie and I for having the insight and the integrity to point out that a person who advocates bigoted behavior must, himself, be a bigot. If you think the word "bigot" is merely a baseless insult (like "asshole" or "shithead"), then I suggest that you look the word up in a good dictionary and find out what it means. Once again I remind you of what Dante said about the lowest, darkest, coldest level in hell being reserved for those who insist on remaining aloof, neutral, and uninvolved when confronted with moral and ethical questions. Don Firth P. S. And in case you haven't notice, Little Hawk, the reason GfS doesn't insult you is because you frequently leap, cape blowing in the wind, to defend him when we object to some outrageous statement of his. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 12 Jun 10 - 03:54 PM John, since that chief executive was elected about a year ago, I'm quite sure that God will visit the country with earthquakes, meteor strikes, plagues of locusts, and volcanoes. Particularly volcanoes. And with this new same-sex marriage law passed, if their society doesn't totally collapse, it will most assuredly sink beneath the sea, like Atlantis. We'll be watching. . . . Don Firth P. S. And if that society doesn't collapse and nothing else happens beyond its normal, periodic geological manifestations, what a bitter blow that will be to some folks! Dear, oh, dear, oh dear!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Little Hawk Date: 12 Jun 10 - 04:56 PM John - Ooooooo...that's pretty scary, all right! You are speaking, I presume, of Liechtenstein? ;-) (I jest.) Don - You are THE master of hyperbole and arguments take to the final ridiculous extremity. ;-) Observe the following examples taken from your last post... "If you had actually paid attention to the many posts that GfS has made..." Oh, but I have. Yes! And on occasion he gets as vehemently hyperbolic and unreasonable as you do when you are worked up about something, while on other occasions he's quite sensible and interesting (which you are also when you're not having a fit about something). I have paid attention to both of you, Don. There is no hyperbolic if instance such as you advance above of my not paying attention. "The problem with that is that you don't seem to be able to distinguish between an underdog and Rottweiler with rabies." Oh dear. More hyperbole and extremity. Sooooo dramatic. (sigh) No useful point to be found there. Yes, I know the difference between those two. "YOUR problem is that you fancy yourself as "Little Hawk, Champion of the Underdog." Yes, but I regard it as a virtue, Don, not a problem. ;-) Mind you, I'm not saying that every underdog is, by definition, "right"...some are certainly not right...but I do react badly against gangs of bullies, cozy little in-groups that bully visitors or outsiders because they know they can comfortably get away with it in the company of their mates. I don't care for that when I see it. "If I'm intolerant of certain examples of human behavior, it is because that behavior is intolerable in a civilized world." No kidding! So am I intolerant of such behaviour. Your statement implies that anyone who disagrees with you about anything MUST therefore BE tolerant of such awful behaviour. I very much doubt that that is true. "If you think the word "bigot" is merely a baseless insult (like "asshole" or "shithead"), then I suggest that you look the word up in a good dictionary and find out what it means." No, I already know what it means. What I think, Don, is that you cannot just sum up another person with a single catchword like "bigot". You can say that a certain form of behaviour is bigoted, yes, but you can't neatly sum up another person AS a bigot, because it reduces them to a cardboard stereotype of evil, and the real truth is probably that like you and me and everyone else, they are complex people, and they cannot simply be summed up in one evil hate word. They probably are, like you and me and everyone else, concerned about truth, justice, fairness, and every other good thing like that and they are pursuing it as best they can given their own understanding, and you don't know about 95% of what they believe, you're just operating on some shred of information that you just reacted to and you interpreted to suit your desire to go after them like a pitbull and make extreme statements about them. You go on the witchhunt, Don. That is your method. The problem with YOU, Don, if I may adopt your own hectoring, accusatory, and totally nasty way of talking to virtually anyone you disagree with is that you cannot seem to have a difference of opinion with another person without also immediately reducing them to the lowest levels of moral evil, stupidity, and drooling idiocy in your own mind, and then treating them like shit. That's a stupid way to deal with other people, Don. It's mean, it's pointless, and it's totally intolerable as far as I'm concerned. It's shabby. It's vain. It's arrogant. It does not become you. It does not lead anywhere useful. It does not permit a sensible conversation between 2 people. This has nothing to do with neutrality in the face of issues. I'm not neutral about the issues. I am, as you know, both a leftist and a liberal/radical...in fact most "liberals" don't strike me as nearly radical enough in their response to the issues of our day. I'm far from neutral about the issues, Don. What I'm always objecting to is your pissy attitude toward other people you disagree with, your sarcastic remarks to them, your vicious character attacks on the people you disagree with, and your obvious total lack of respect for them, NOT your position on ANY of the issues. I often AGREE with your position on the issues themselves. I don't agree with your apparent need to persecute individuals on a personal basis over matters of political differences you have with them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 12 Jun 10 - 08:24 PM Little Hawk, you have just managed to raise the concept of hyperbole to supernatural proportions. Beyond that, you've just proven yourself to be no better than you accuse me of being. Whether I am really as bad as you say I am, I leave for other cooler heads to judge. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: ichMael Date: 12 Jun 10 - 10:37 PM You get pretty worked up, Don. Of course, I wouldn't place you in the same class as catspaw, Amos and Bobert, the men responsible for The Mudcat Pages, but you get pretty tense. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 12 Jun 10 - 11:35 PM Michael, having strong opinions based on knowledge and understanding of the issues is not "worked up." But I thoroughly understand why you and GfS are given to attacking me every chance you get. It's Little Hawk who is shooting form the hip while wearing a blindfold. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 13 Jun 10 - 05:09 PM ""Ebbie. Don. Think how much better you could relate to GfS in these discussions if you didn't work from the initial premise that you already hate him...or despise him...or something along that line. ;-) It would put an entirely different slant on the conversation."" Whatever gave you the idea that I hate GfS? To hate somebody, they have to have some meaning to me, and sadly I consider GfS meaningless in the extreme. I simply take the time to expose its attempts to appear as the fount of knowledge on every subject, by pointing out the glaring errors in almost every post it makes. It warrants no more than indifference, but its errors merit correction. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 13 Jun 10 - 07:49 PM To whichever Don Little Hawk was addressing his remarks, Don T. and I are in accord on this matter. What Don T. just said. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: ichMael Date: 14 Jun 10 - 08:55 PM In an article dated June 11, 2010, Madsen claims that, "according to former [Clinton] campaign officials," Hillary Clinton and her top aides were "well aware of" stories about Obama's gay activities in Man's Country and Rev. Wright's Trinity United Church of Christ. However, none of the allegations were investigated in greater detail. Furthermore, Democratic members of the Congressional Black Caucus also know about Obama's activities. One source from the Caucus told Madsen "we knew about Obama for years." So do "certain elements of the U.S. Intelligence Community." http://beforeitsnews.com/news/78/163/Hillary_Well_Aware_of_Obama_8217;s_Gay_Activities.html I bet Obama starts another war pretty soon (in addition to the ones he's waging against Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and America). Americans are going to be a bit peeved when they find out they have a homosexual born in Kenya serving as president. So |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Amos Date: 14 Jun 10 - 08:57 PM You are so full of crap, Michael, you really need to get professional help; your capacity for critical thinking is pre-hominid. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 14 Jun 10 - 10:25 PM I have an acquaintance who writes really bad science fiction / fantasy (can't really tell which its supposed to be). He has a whole drawer full of returned manuscripts along with a large stack of rejection slips. The flights (flops?) of fancy he turns out is far more believable than the stuff ichMael comes up with. What a crock!!! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 14 Jun 10 - 10:31 PM ". . . are. . . ." Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: ichMael Date: 14 Jun 10 - 11:18 PM Ohhh, this is sooo good. The Obama misadministration explodes this summer. The Blagojevich trial...corrupt prosecutor Fitzgerald collected over 500 hours of surveillance tapes on Blagojevich. Fitzgerald wants to play 100 hours, but Blagojevich's lawyers are demanding all 500 be played. Problem is, the tapes will prove, among other things, Obama's homosexuality. I need to update the Obama Gay Romp page with the below: On June 2, 2010, WMR reported: "WMR has recently learned that while a member of the House, a major Democratic strategist and lobbyist rented [Rahm] Emanuel his Washington, DC condominium at below market rates. Emanuel reportedly used the condominium for trysts with his homosexual partners in Washington while Emanuel's family remained at their home in north Chicago. The Democratic strategist in question is also a top lobbyist for BP." WMR has learned additional details concerning the DC "play condo." Well-informed sources report the condo in question was actually owned by Connecticut Democratic Representative Rosa DeLauro. She is married to Democratic pollster and strategist Stan Greenberg. Greenberg's firm, Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research, counts BP as one of its largest clients. Greenberg's business partners are James Carville and Bob Shrum. Carville has been appearing on CNN commenting on the BP oil disaster in the Gulf of Mexico, another indication of the massive conflicts-of-interest of CNN in objectively covering news stories. Although Greenberg and DeLauro are close friends of Rahm Emanuel, WMR has been told the "play condo" was "wired" and that there exists video and audio evidence of trysts not only involving Emanuel but also those engaged in by then-US Senator Barack Obama and former President Bill Clinton, who both stopped by the condo on separate occasions for "extracurricular activities." http://mediamatters.org/blog/201006080025 This explains why Obama isn't doing shit about the leak in the Gulf of Mexico. HE'S BEING BLACKMAILED. Sonuvabitch. He'll never make it through his term. And the corrupt freak will start talking about "high tech lynchin'" same as the freak Clarence Thomas did. But Americans won't be blinded by the flurry of race cards this time around. Hobama's long hot summer. This is good. This is damn good. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: ichMael Date: 14 Jun 10 - 11:58 PM My update: http://www2.moment.net/~michael/HomosexualityWhiteHouse2.htm June 2, 2010 -- Emanuel's "Play Condo" in Washington D.C. -- On June 2 WMR reported that while Rahm Emanuel was a lobbyist, he rented a D.C. condominium at well below market rates. The condo was owned by Connecticut Representative Rosa DeLauro, who is married to Democratic strategist Stan Greenberg. Greenberg's a partner in a law firm that has BP (the oil company) on its client list. BP's one of the firm's largest clients. Emanuel reportedly used the condominium for homosexual trysts when he traveled from Chicago to Washington. The "play condo" was reportedly wired, and surveillance that was conducted shows the extracurricular activities of not only Emanuel, but also of then-US Senator Barack Obama and former President Bill Clinton. Obama is currently stalling on taking action against BP in the Gulf of Mexico oil spill, and some speculate he is being blackmailed with the surveillance evidence. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Ebbie Date: 15 Jun 10 - 12:58 AM It must be very interesting being you, Michael. You are so funny. Mad, of course. But funny. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Don Firth Date: 15 Jun 10 - 12:59 AM And just what the hell is Obama supposed to do? Dive a mile deep in the Gulf of Mexico with a cork in his teeth and plug the hole himself!??? Don't be such an ass, Mickey! And, for that matter, there would indeed be some rednecks and homophobes who might be a bit upset if it turned out that Obama actually is gay, but there are a helluva lot of people, including me, who couldn't care less! Don Firth P. S. Regarding my saying "Don't be such an ass, Mickey. . . ." Sorry. I should not be asking people to do something that's impossible for them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Leadfingers Date: 15 Jun 10 - 05:31 AM 300 - Ducky !! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,TIA Date: 15 Jun 10 - 06:24 PM "Ohhh, this is sooo good. The Obama misadministration explodes this summer." "He'll never make it through his term." Ohh, this is soooo good. More predictions! Tell me again, how'd that earth-shattering trial in Harlem turn out? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Amos Date: 15 Jun 10 - 06:36 PM Well, it's good, yeah, except for the fact that it is sheer malicious bullshit. I have an idea, though. If you can find some friends (tough but even one will do) have them grab your ears and pull very hard until your head pops out of your ass. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 16 Jun 10 - 12:30 AM If the blackmail stories are true, and that is causing the President to delay what he needs to do in the gulf, or be found out, then the person who doesn't think it is time for an openly homosexual President, is the President himself....wouldn't you say? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: Amos Date: 16 Jun 10 - 11:56 AM Perhaps, but why speculate on hypotheticals based on false data? The laws of fantasy universes are endlessly mutable, as any overheated fantabulist knows. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: frogprince Date: 16 Jun 10 - 01:24 PM Gfs should get some credit for being "slicker" than IchMael. Gfs is very good at nudging rumors along with ifs and inyerendos, while carefully safeguarding his ability to disclaim personal "ownership" of any of the content. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:23 AM I was only going by the three links previously provided for, on this thread....EXC-U-U-U-U-U-U-U-SE ME-E--E-E!!! Another wild another stupid accusation from a rather small minded windbag! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is it time for a gay president? From: John P Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:42 PM Whether or not we ever elect a gay president depends on the long-term education of the anti-homosexual crowd (or waiting for the majority of them to die off). To me, they are a more interesting story than whether or not a gay can elected. GfS, ichMael, and Ankenaton all seem to take it for granted that having a gay president would be a bad idea. Why? |
