BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms

Subject: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 11:14 AM

Twenty years ago I painted a 16 sq. ft. canvas that depicted the 9-11 disaster and the great sunami of Indonesia. I did not know exactly why I did it but it was a compelling project I had to do.
Ten years ago I predicted all the financial evil in the mud was about to hatch out in a global depression. Yelling a warning has its costs but is essential despite the objections and criticism leveled against the messengers. The same compelling sad feeling propelled me to post this regarding the coming disaster to the North East US Deleware water shed that feeds NYC the finest tap water on earth. The destruction will stretch from the Catskills to the Chesapeak Bay.

The disaster is nearly 10 years away but still has time to be averted. We all know that natural gas is at an all time low price but few know why. Those who have exploding tap water from Texas to Wyoming know why. The area of the deadly destruction in the wake of fraking the earth with poisons to puch up natural gas for collection is already immense.

The man at the throttle of the fracking disasters is my old friend Dick Cheney. I imagine that a political knee jerk by the right will apologize to and defend the gas companies respondsible just becasue Cheney played such a large role in granting exceptions to all enviormental laws in behalf of gas companies to lease anywhere they want and commit any enviormental crime against man and beast alike.

The same as the BP ocean and shore disaster could have been averted with awarness, the gas fracking disaster will eventually unfold in a similar fashion without abatement. Prior to the BP oil spill the total number of gallons of spilled oil on land and sea from every possible source waa about 1 Billion gallons. The BP disaster will in all likelyhood add another 1 Billion gallons to that total. IF you think all is well with money for cleanup and relief wells are on they're way to success you are looking through pollyanna glasses. All solutions at this point fall below a 50% success rate. The $20 billion promised is not even securitized and can be wiped away in a declaration of bankruptcy by BP. BP is currently working with an army of lawyers to obtain the best possible bankruptcy.
But I digress. the point is...

See or comment upon the HBO video Gasland.

Goggle the documentary 'Gasland' for an overview of America's next man made disaster to come.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 01:21 PM

Seen Gasland. Well worth if everyone see's this documentary. ..... the process of fracking is concerning .... it looks like the province I live in, New Brunswick is going to be a target for for this dangerous process of extracting natural gas.

Sussex prepares for possible natural gas boom

Problem is ... many people are unaware of the dangers of 'fracking'... and because of their ignorance, will buy into it.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 01:24 PM

ooops

here's the link to that CBC article, if anyone is interested

possible natural gas boom in N.B.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 01:56 PM

They've been fracking around Fort Worth, TX, for quite a while now. Haven't done my neighborhood yet (I don't know if there is a well under us yet to fracture). Pretty soon they're going to have to start renegotiating all of the leases they haven't acted upon if they don't start paying royalties. I imagine with all of the discussion of fracking, those discussions could be long and messy.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: LilyFestre
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 05:03 PM

Three drilling platforms are within a mile of my home...each platform can support up to 8 wells. There are a good 15 or so platforms within 4 miles of our home....it's destruction at it's finest and a community that is very worried.

Michelle in the Marcellous Shale area

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 07:48 PM

And don't forget that near me they are working on getting gas out of what would be uneconomic coal mines by partly burning it underground... it generates a lot of waste water that is almost suitable for drinking with a little cleanup - and Australia is a dry country, so such things as lots of 'free' water are very enticing. Toowoomba has lots of gas - supposedly just air - that is pressured into the town water supply - have to let it stand to get clear water.

I've found that Kaolin Clay in suspension eases gas - it's getting more difficult to get it easily from chemists cause the big companies want to get money for all their cute patented goops, but is is 'natural' and fairly cheap - you could even try the potter's supplies - even parrots in the wild eat it to deal with the after effects of eating various berries....

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 01:32 PM

The amount of gas that is released into the air at these wells is enormous. Often it is 25 to 300 hundred times the safe limit for human respiration.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 02:01 PM

This practice is killing wildlife & poisoning ground water. It is an enemy of all that lives on the planet. Oppose it. Stop it. Make the exploration comps. find ways to clean up their mess. Tw

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: Dharmabum
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 05:43 PM

My house is located about a quarter of the way up a mountain that has the second highest elevation in Potter County Pennsylvania.
That hill produces some of the coolest,clearest,springwater in the area.

I just learned this weekend,that one of the property owners above me has leased the mineral rights to the gas company.

All I can say,is, OH SHIT!


   DB.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 09:14 PM

A short article in the NY Times Sunday Magazine 2-3 weeks back was about "disregulation." Inadequate government regulations are behind a lot of destructive practices including the BP disaster.

It looks like production of gas from fractured rock like the Marcellus could be a major polluter and disrupter of water sources.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 10:14 PM

"Make the exploration comps. find ways to clean up their mess"

That's easy, once it fonds its way to the surface, they just burn it - waste I call it - safety procedures, they call it.

"I just learned this weekend,that one of the property owners above me has leased the mineral rights to the gas company."

Looks like it's time to buy a rainwater storage tank.... oh wait...

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: GUEST,Kathy Westra
Date: 10 Jul 10 - 09:58 PM

The nonprofit group American Rivers recently named the Upper Delaware River Valley one of the nation's most endangered rivers because of the threat to the water supply posed by hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, to obtain natural gas. Yale Environment 360, which in my opinion is one of the best environmental news sources anywhere, did a fairly in-depth article on the risks of obtaining natural gas from shale by fracking. We should all be very, very concerned, as so many have pointed out. Our country's fossil-fuel-centric energy policy is disastrous, from oil drilling to fracking to mountaintop removal coal mining. I despair for the world we're leaving our children.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Jul 10 - 11:15 PM

Our mineral and other leasing and exploration regulations fail to protect some of our most productive land, recreational and heritage lands, water sources, rivers and wetlands.

See "Dysregulation Nation," Judith Warner, New York Times Magazine, June 20, 2010.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: mousethief
Date: 11 Jul 10 - 12:49 AM

BP is currently working with an army of lawyers to obtain the best possible bankruptcy.

This will, of course, be blamed on Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 10 - 11:47 AM

"Fracking in Pennsylvania and I've got a hunch,
The people in the burbs will drink gas for lunch."

Apologies to Tom Lehrer (whose songwriting skills we need desperately now.)

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Jul 10 - 01:35 PM

I think it more likely that an alliance will be formed. BP has some excellent leases, and there will be behind-the-scenes bids by other majors and state-owned companies.
The end result will be a very lean BP, not a global explorer.

Notice "I think." I honestly dunno; it may be a little early to make guesses.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Jul 10 - 01:42 PM

Welcome to the pardee, DB. We'uns has been in Frackville for over a yea know. Right next to us. Dog already sick. Gonna start buying bottled water myself.

Thanks Donuel.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jul 10 - 05:33 PM

We have piped city water or we'd be looking at bottled water here. I'm in the Barnett Shale formation in North Texas.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: Dharmabum
Date: 12 Jul 10 - 09:08 AM

Right next to my property line is the local watering hole.
It's literaly a pipe sticking out of the bank along the side of the road that I've seen provide better than ten gallons of fresh spring water a minute.
This originates from the same source that provides my house with water.
It's also where the folks from the local camps come to fill their water jugs.
One of the main reasons I bought this piece of land was the water supply & even during the years I had no electricity running to the house,I always had a supply of drinking/bathing water.

I'm not against extracting natural resources from our planet.
If it's done in a responsable manner.
Unfortunately,when the process is driven by profit & greed,the resposibility of these corporations to do it safely,goes out the window.

My hope is that the BP oil disaster raises the awareness to the dangers involved in drilling for these resorces & regulations are put into place before it's too late to save what's left of our planet.
That's my hope.
In reality,well, I fear that's a different story.

Plain & simple;the fracking process,which involves pumping millions of gallons of water containing toxic chemicals into the earth,is bad.

Only a percentage of the fracking fluid is recovered & without proper regulation,who knows where or how this fluid is "disposed" of.

I was contacted by one of these gas companies a couple of years ago about leasing my land.
I requested they put me in contact with individuals that they'd done business with.
I haven't heard back from them.
No surprise there.

DB.

On a footnote;
The entire time I'm writing this message,I'm looking at a Google ad on the bottom of my screen advertising oil & gas well investing.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Jul 10 - 12:35 PM

Still drinking it though?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: Dharmabum
Date: 13 Jul 10 - 06:15 AM

For now yes Susan.
They haven't started any drilling yet,& other than what I've heard,I see no signs of activity.
But once they do,I'll be jioning you with my bottle of water.

DB.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Jul 10 - 11:59 AM

DB,

I hear NYS ain't fracked up. Where can we find a good NYS spring? I'm talking a vanload. Paying for water..... grates mah aiss! I haiz containerz!

'Member when we "all" thought the Water Wars would be over planetary "shortages." Little did we suspect that big bidness would pizen it first. Batten down the hatches, water-drinkers... Me, I drank juice and Coke all day ydy except for the 1/4 of filtered wellwater for bedtime pills-- the juice were all gone by then.

Burning gasoline to go get Wally World water.... so much is wrong with that!

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 13 Jul 10 - 12:02 PM

"Burning gasoline to go get Wally World water.... so much is wrong with that!"

I like that, so true ... good one!

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: Dharmabum
Date: 13 Jul 10 - 03:33 PM

Look at the bright side Suz,
If they frack up our water bad enough,we'll be able to burn that in our cars!

DB.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Jul 10 - 06:51 PM

Zevon moment-- My Sh*t's Fracked Up.

If you find a good (safe) spring up here, or in NY-- call me!

Hell, can I fill up at your place?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: Dharmabum
Date: 14 Jul 10 - 07:52 AM

Hell yea Suz!
Bring over as many containers as you can haul & fill 'em up before they fruck up my water supply.

DB.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Jul 10 - 08:40 AM

If you are up here now, pls PM or email direx. I only recall part of it-- strokebrain. Or we can meet in Ulysses at the Corner Cafe.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Jul 10 - 09:03 AM

PS Greg is free tomorrow night to co-pilot. We really like that Corner Cafe, go there often!

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Jul 10 - 08:32 PM

So Donuel or anyone-- can I re-use the containers I already have, if frack-affected water has been sitting in them awhile? Can we "safely" shower in it?

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: bubblyrat
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 05:27 AM

Exactly what is "gas fracking" ?? Not a well-known expression over here in medieval England !! Explanation required ( so that we can avoid it ; it sounds unpleasant !).

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 08:45 AM

Hydraulic fracturing of rock layers. Look it up at Wikipedia for the ways it is used harmfully and benignly.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 09:19 AM

The article that Kathy Westra provided a link to at 9:58p on the 10th explains the process and its dangers pretty well.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 15 Jul 10 - 02:48 PM

Fracking is short for fracturing specifically fracturing rock to release natural gas trapped in it. Water and chemicals under pressure are used to do the work both of which end up in ground water and soil.

The US govmint under Bush and Co gave oil and gas companies amnesty from environmental laws. So these companies have been buying up mineral rights anywhere there are deposits of trapped gas in a particular type of rock (some kinda shale).

According to the map shown in the film trailer the practice is quite prevalent in southeast England too.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: wysiwyg
Date: 17 Jul 10 - 11:14 AM

We not only picked up almost 40 gallons of non-fracked-up (NFU) springwater yesterday (thanks DB), but I just nailed a reservation for the first 10 days of vacay in a non-NFU campground WITH a cool, deep swimming lake I have adored before, that is scooterable. Possibly even from the campsite and back, but at least scooterable from beach parking lot, to lake, to loo and so forth. It also has shady sitting areas at the lake.

The res was.... the last remaining campsite in this busy heatwave season where our northern campgrounds are feeling the pressure from heat and fracking. It's in full sun, but we have shade canopies and we know how to use them. And it's a a good 50' to the nearest camper on each side, as well as being a good 50' deep. Our little rig will set WAY back in that spot, leaving plenty of shaded and rain-protected sitting/scooter storage in front if if the sides are not flat enough.

TBTG,

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: wysiwyg
Date: 17 Jul 10 - 02:15 PM

14 days! The motel we love nearby where we always stop for several nights-- also NFU!


~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: bubblyrat
Date: 18 Jul 10 - 07:21 AM

I have just read in yesterday's "Times" about a similarly destructive process,whereby Australian coal-mining companies,who are being granted mineral rights to vast areas of that country,are literally undermining large areas of vines in one of the most productive wine-making regions,causing the complete destruction of thousands of acres of grapes ,and bankrupting the wine-makers !
    I mean,a process that affects ones fresh water is serious,yes, but one that threatens production of Pinot Noir ? Shiraz ?....that's a DISASTER !!

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Jul 10 - 12:20 PM

Uh.... b-r.... if you ever find your water supply destroyed, let me know then if you still think that wine thing is funny, eh?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Jul 10 - 07:38 PM

In South East Queensland, a few days ago, a big fuss and shutdown of a trial 'Underground Gas Burning' operation - leakage of toluene and benzene into the ground water. First detected in April, but it seems that nobody thought it was 'serious' enough till July, so it was kept a secret...

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: GUEST,LilyFestre
Date: 18 Jul 10 - 10:27 PM

Out west, apparently the gas companies have created large pits to store the waste water in. Here, in PA, they are burying the waste water in very large bags. Anyway, what they found out west was that the waste water in these open pits was evaporating and along with it went the benzene. Folks living nearby have been breathing this and many are now developing brain lesions and other neurological problems as well as losing their sense of taste. It really IS a scary thing for those of us living near where these gas wells are going in all over the place.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 08:47 AM

Post lost....

Does anyone know-- at what point in the well development/reaping process is the water contamination at its worst?

Friends to the west need to know-- they are next, and winter will be here very soon.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: LilyFestre
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 03:49 PM

Susan,

I imagine it is at it's worst in the beginning when they start pumping in large amounts of water and the shale is being broken up....don't know for sure though.
Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 06:30 PM

The site near Kingaroy - latest news is that the latest test levels are below the 'minimum'.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 04:20 PM

Scientific/commonsense comments wanted:

... the current borough president informs us that
· Water contaminated by fracking has an excessively salty taste, the salt being in such a concentration that it is unpalatable.*
· At present there is not a concern locally about the purity of the ground water in the county that is being heavily monitored by the Department of Environmental Protection** and ***
· Because of their concern for issues of liability and for the safety of the residents of the boro, the boro water supply is tested daily for any impurities, especially those associated with the fracking process.***
· The quality of the boro water is tested daily by the boro in addition to the requirements of testing by the EPA.***


Surveying others who live in the countryside:
· There is no present concern about the quality of the aquifer from which the well water is drawn, which is apparently the same source as the boro water.+
· No one in the parish is expressing concern presently about the quality of drinking water, they use bottled water as a convenience drink, not as a replacement for tap water.++
· There is concern about the long range effects of drawing off 4 million gallons of water per day which is the permitted rate consumption of the gas companies— the concern here being not about the quality of water, but the available of water for the future.
· That water used in fracking is trucked down to a point below Williamsport where it is treated and then released into the Susquehanna River.+++
· Water released into the Susquehanna river is also monitored by the EPA before it is released into the river.+++
· Thinking people would be more concerned about what folk downstream would be consuming, since the Susquehanna river provides water for many communities to the south, including Harrisburg.
· The real area of concern is not about the potable water, but what's in those trucks that bear the signs Residual Waste. For the moment, it would seem that we would be at greater risk from the environmental impact of one of those leaking, spilling, or being in a collision.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

* If the borough filters the salt out-- the marker-- how would I know that there might also be other unnamed chemicals in there, since we know that other communities' experience has been that the drillers will not specify?

** Izzat the fed EPA testing (Cheney's holdovers?) or a state agency in a state being benefited by fracking?

*** How can they test for chemicals they do not know are there?

+ They have done research? Or the have not yet gotten worried? Is their property leased-- are they benefiting from the fracking? Are they not worried because they have "conveniently" taken steps that headed off a potential concern?

++ They have money to spend on "convenience" water? Then I guess they must assume that we can afford it, too.

+++ If it is safe, why does it have to go downstream, and who is monitoring the effects of the water on the wildlife and human populations there? How can they monitor what they do not know is in the water?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: LilyFestre
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 06:51 PM

Have you seen the documentary Gasland yet? If not and you get a copy of it (it's on HBO), I'd be interested in seeing it too. I understand it's very educational and frightening but necessary to see.

Michelle

PS. Safe? I still don't think so. And did you see what Alan Puskar wrote in the paper last week in the letters to the editor part? They had a spill near a farm in Wboro, cows are now quarantined, pregnant cow's calves will be quaranteed for 2 years because they fear they drank the water. Well, ok...but what about all the OTHER animals that drank that water or water that seeped into the ground where crops are grown? Say someone shoots a deer this season that drank that water....how is that going to effect their health?

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 10:43 PM

Say someone shoots a deer this season that drank that water....how is that going to effect their health?

Yes, we have been thinking about exactly that. "Welcome to the county, flatlander hunters. Enjoy your venison when you get home....."

Well, they can read, can't they? It ain't fine print in their portfolio ezzackly... get your fall "posted" signs ready now. "Our deer drink Frackwater, do yours?"

No I have not seen Gasland. Budget currently shot to hell.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: Dharmabum
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 10:59 PM

Hope this link works.
http://splashdownpa.blogspot.com/

DB.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 01:17 AM

"How can they test for chemicals they do not know are there"

Well you can use one of them thare gadgets what spew out a chart with lots of wiggles and see what chemicals them thare wiggles corresponds to....

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 11:51 AM

LF,

1. Gasland now on its way here thanks to a nice person
2. ...spill near a farm in Wboro... And.... the stuff that spilled got rained into the groundwater that feeds the boro supply?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 12:02 PM

I used to live on a farm near Chenango Forks New York. The little 3 foot stream came down some stair step falls and joined a tiny stream in the valley which during hurricane Agness became a quarter mile wide.

On a summer day the 3 foot stream would gently bubble gas which was flammable but posed no poisonous aspects to flora and fauna.

When gas companies asked farmers to sell their gas rights for thousands of dollars, all but one or two farmers took the money.
IF a large tract went up for sale the gas companies would buy lease rights to themselves and put it back on the market.

The area now well over 90% leased to gas companies and the eventual permanent peril to this vast Delaware water shed is now on a fast track to death and destruction.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Fracking disaster looms
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 12:22 PM

Didn't New York block further development though? When did that Chenango area stuff happen, Don?

~S~