BS: Language. Moll has turned to Mole

Subject: BS: Language. Moll has turned to Mole
From: Joybell
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 06:22 PM

Here in Victoria Australia the name "Moll" - used for a "fast woman" - has become "mole".   
I first saw it in graffiti in about 1970.
Before this you would see, "(girl's name)is a Moll".
Now the phrase is, "(girl's name) is a mole"
A comedy show here reinforced the phrase by using a character called Kyle Mole.
However it happened before this.
I heard my daughter use it on her sister -- who said,
"It's alright Mummy, moles are cute little furry creatures."
I thought it was just a one-off miss-hearing but it wasn't.
Has this happened elsewhere?
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Language. Moll has turned to Mole
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 06:58 PM

Noted as you said, up here in Queensland, Joybell.

I think it had something to do with the pronunciation - originally Moll - with emphasis on the final 'll' and a short vowel to now be nearer 'MoWl' - emphasis shifted earlier onto a longer and stronger vowel.

It was happening earlier, but the comedy show - which I think just picked up on the shifting trend, definitely accelerated it to become 'cool'. Of course do not forget the MALE 'Adrian Mole' book which predated the female comedy show.

Subject: RE: BS: Language. Moll has turned to Mole
From: Hrothgar
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 07:17 PM

I always thought a moll was a tart.

Subject: RE: BS: Language. Moll has turned to Mole
From: Joybell
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 07:32 PM

Yes I'd forgotten Adrian Mole.
"Moll" has a long history as a generic name for a woman. She was not always necessarily a tart or a fast woman.
Moll Flanders may have helped that idea along.
The American Gangster's Moll is a familiar term.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Language. Moll has turned to Mole
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 08:42 PM

It is still moll in the US, Joy states the case.

Subject: RE: BS: Language. Moll has turned to Mole
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 08:50 PM

I heard a New Zealander say 'oakland' for the city spelled(lt) Auckland. The story here?

Subject: RE: BS: Language. Moll has turned to Mole
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 01:47 AM

NZ & Oz pronunciations are very different.

I heard a talk-back caller say that when she wanted to buy six eggs, she very quickly learnt to ask for half a dozen, as NZ pronunciation means the "I" in "six" is pronounced as "E" - SEX.

I haven't heard a Kiwi (NZer) say Auckland, tho. I'm not surprised to see it written phonetically as Oakland.

Of course, Australian pronunciation is perfectly right & proper, & all those American who asked my visiting sister & brother-in-law keep talking cos they loved the accent were talking funny themselves.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Language. Moll has turned to Mole
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 02:46 AM

is it possible that since graffiti is an art form of gangs that "mole" means a person (in this case a girl) who infiltrated another gang?

Subject: RE: BS: Language. Moll has turned to Mole
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 04:26 AM

I doubt it. It's an Aussie thing, and we don't have knife wielding gun-toting gang kids here - very much, except in the few big cities ...

Subject: RE: BS: Language. Moll has turned to Mole
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 02:07 PM

A moll is a ganster's woman, like the one in Key Largo that is so miserable. What Judy halliday was NOT in Born Yestersay, or what Kate Hepburn pretended to be in the jail scene in Bringing up Baby.

A mole is an undercover operative who is not on your side. I'm not sure what the term is when they ARE on your side, maybe double agent?

This is US English, that is. The term Moll is rather outdated since the gangsters all work in Wall Street with offices now...

Subject: RE: BS: Language. Moll has turned to Mole
From: Joybell
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 05:33 PM

Moll as a British generic name for a woman predates gansters' molls by a few hundred years.

Now in Aus. Mole is used for prostitute as Moll used to be until about 1870. (I think about then).
"...is a mole" is frequently seen in toilets for this reason.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Language. Moll has turned to Mole
From: bubblyrat
Date: 14 Sep 10 - 10:17 AM

So what do Mole Asses smell like,then ??

Subject: RE: BS: Language. Moll has turned to Mole
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 14 Sep 10 - 01:00 PM

NEWSFLASH!

Moll mauled by mole at mall!

Subject: RE: BS: Language. Moll has turned to Mole
From: Genie
Date: 14 Sep 10 - 01:44 PM

Q, there was a well-publicized incident that happened a decade or two ago, where a kid (I think he was about 12) got on a plane in the US (LA, I think) with a ticket to Oakland and was misdirected by the airline agent, who misunderstood his pronunciation, and ended up in Auckland, NZ.
The boy realized something was wrong when he was still in the air after about 4 or 5 hours.

Subject: RE: BS: Language. Moll has turned to Mole
From: Lighter
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 07:48 AM

A gangster's "moll" is still recognized in the US, but nowadays it's mainly used in film criticism. Even then it's usually in reference to old-time gangsters.

It would be most unusual, for example, to hear a girlfriend of an actual, contemporary drug kingpin, described as his "moll."

The only pronunciations I've ever heard are "mahl" and "mawl" - like "dahl" and "dawl." ("Mole" and "dole" are just different words!)

Subject: RE: BS: Language. Moll has turned to Mole
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 06:02 PM

I don't think I've heard the term "moll" used by itself very often in the US, I think that more often, it's "gun moll." This Wikipedia article contends that the "gun" does not refer to a firearm - it's from the Hebrew word "Ganav," meaning "thief." Don't know if I buy that or not, but it's interesting....

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Language. Moll has turned to Mole
From: Joybell
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 09:04 PM

In Australia Moll and mole (and sometimes mall -- the shopping place) all sound the same.
My Mid-Western American True-Love says Mahl, mole (rhymes with hole), (and mahl).
He also pronounces maul as mahl.
Fun isn't it?
I understand why Moll has become mole but I refuse to accept it. It just lacks the connections.
Mole makes no sense.
Moll connects us to our cultural past.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Language. Moll has turned to Mole
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 03:26 AM

Joe, a while ago we had an Aussie TV show called 'The Money or the Gun'...

Subject: RE: BS: Language. Moll has turned to Mole
From: GUEST,sapper sans cookie
Date: 17 Sep 10 - 01:02 AM

From: Hrothgar
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 07:17 PM

I always thought a moll was a tart.


We have Bakewell Molls up the road from here then!