BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: gnu
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 03:10 PM

"way"??? "weigh"... darn I hate that.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: GUEST,8ft 11ins Stag with contacts and a laptop
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 02:07 PM

Guess who's the biggest stag now...

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 09:31 AM

I keep misreading this thread title as England's Biggest Shag...

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: gnu
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 02:19 PM

Never hand feed a deer. When you run out they can get pretty nasty.

Our Virginia white tailed deer are among the largest. I once was asked by a Newfie what a big one would way. I said anything over 250# was considered a good size. He said, "That'd make a big quarter a moose bye."

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: pdq
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 01:20 PM

From about Santa Barbara north, the Coast Ranges of California have the Columbian Black-tailed Deer.

They are relatively small and tame. I sayed over night in Big Basin State Park once and the deer would come very close to people. I never saw anyone try the feed them by hand but you probably could.

California has the greatest diversity of habitats of any US state in, therefore the greatest variety of deer species and sub-species in the country, but the northern coastal populations are essentially the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: olddude
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 12:40 PM

Slag
The whitetail here are huge, surrounding by grape vineyards and corn fields and everything else they look like mule deer.   I couldn't believe it when I first moved here. Huge deer ... I sure took my share of them over the years all with a handgun. I live in a shotgun only part of the state but they allow handgun hunting also - no rifles. and well, since I am pretty darn good with a handgun the .44 mag worked really well. But alas after giving away all the meat and having my wife say what are you going to do with that!! I figured it was time to just fish. Now I just watch them.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Slag
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 10:52 PM

I live in deer central. They are the little coastal specie with a few oddballs thrown in. One lives under our deck and we can't get rid of her. She clave about every year. There are a lot of nice bucks around now that rut is on. If you get one to dress out at 150 you really have a prize! That's threoretically speaking, as I don't hunt them any more and have never hunted these in this area. What fun would that be. When I hunted it was usually up in the north-east corner of the state. They have big muleys up there and it was a chance to get out, camp, fish, climb rocks and scramble through the brush. It's about hunting, and not so much the shooting. The first buck I ever killed was a heart shot which stopped him sure enough but it wrecked a lot of meat. From then on it was neck shots or none. They drop like a sack of wet sand, dead before they hit the ground.

I have hunted with a few real nimrods who gut shot their animals. Once. I would never hunt again with someone so unsure of their skill with a rifle that they choose the largest target at 100 yards and are actually delighted that they hit anything. Brrrr.

When my son takes a deer he will sometimes bring a little venison by and we have a feast. so I haven't forgotten the taste. It's just a much rarer ocassion that it used to be.

I never cared for the turkeys and it's no challenge to take one here. They are everywhere. My son calls them land-carp and I have to agree with him.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: kendall
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 09:56 PM

I still like venison but since I quit hunting I don't get much of it now.
We have had as many as 5 deer on the back lawn eating the feed I put out for them. Never could I shoot one. Same for the wild Turkeys I feed. If someone else wants to shoot them (NOT on my lawn) I have no quarrel with them. There are no big ones in the group.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: gnu
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 08:06 PM

Kendall... been there and done it. It's heart wrenching. But it happens.

My bro was a marksman of note and took every deer I saw him shoot with one shot.... neck shot... immediate death on the spot... they never knew. BUT, one day, a buck jumped as he pulled and it took us two hours to take him down. When it was done, he said, "No more." I replied, "No more." And we did not.

I wouldn't say anything against anyone else hunting, but I would tell them they'd be better off with a camera or a videocam if they didn't need the meat. If I had carried same all my time in the woods I would be far richer for it. I've seen things in the woods very few people on earth have seen.... but all I can do is describe them... a shame really.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: InOBU
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 07:06 PM

It is all very well and good to condemn the fellow who had that bugger shot... but then again, you did not have to clean up after him. I bet you did not ask yourself, do I want to step in a giant pool of venison poo every time you go for a stroll in the great outdoors, eh?
It is a basic choice better the pooper scooper and the big head on the wall... Curb your stag Britain!

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 06:16 PM

"Elk is probably the best tasting meat anywhere ... Amazing pot roast"

Great news. That's decided me...

I'll keep an elk chum in the hillsides,,,,

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: olddude
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 05:39 PM

By the way, Elk is probably the best tasting meat anywhere ... Amazing pot roast ...

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Slag
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 05:32 PM

Of course it about the law McGarth of Harlow. It's just that you are superimposing your own personal law on the hunter(s). You believe you have moral superiority and that your law should be obeyed and not the law of the land. That's the hallmark of the PC crowd and it is also why we must have uniform law and proceedures, to protect us from arrogant and self-righteous people who desire to dominate and trump everyone else with whatever they deem better.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: GUEST,Aaln Whittle
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 02:12 PM

'I never hunted bear'

So relieved!

Imagine saying to the kids, well we've eaten all of Bambi - shall I get Winnie the Pooh out the freezer, or Paddington..?

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: olddude
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 01:58 PM

Well,   as someone that hunted and fished since I could walk. To me it is a sport and provided food (I admit I quit hunting and now fish more than ever since I was the only one eating the deer meat so I stopped. I don't kill anything that I don't use.   I wouldn't fish in a swimming pool filled with stocked trout. Nor do I like the idea of hunting on farm raised deer resort ranches as I call them like my doc buddie likes to hunt on.

If the animal was around a lot of people (since they all know of it I assume it was) Then it sure wasn't much of a sport. But if it was legal it was legal. I know of no real hunters that would hunt something half tame.

I never hunted bear, I ate plenty from folks who did and can't stand it so I never hunted them ... although I sure could have anytime.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: kendall
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 01:51 PM

It's not about culling! Its about killing a one of a kind majestic animal.

I used to live to hunt, but in November of 1982 I shot a deer and it didn't drop in its tracks, which they seldom do, so I tracked the blood trail and when I found it, it was lying down, unable to rise. As I approached it looked at me with those big brown eyes and I have never hunted since.
Anyone who calls me a "Poofta" is asking for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 01:32 PM

no laws were broken is completely irrelevant.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: GUEST,Alan whittle
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 11:16 AM

You heard all that on the six o'clock moose...?

The 9 foot monster had to go - it was an elk and safety issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 10:07 AM

heard on BBC R4 Broadcasting House Sunday Morning interviews with some people in Exmoor.

1. Where is the proof that the "Emperor" was shot? No one is owning up to shooting or having seen it shot.
2. There are probably as many as 20 stags of comparable size roaming Exmoor. The pictures shown are probably pics of different deer.
3. It is very unlikely the stag was as tall as the media report claims. "9 foot tall deer? That sounds more like a camel."   A stag rarely tops 4 feet. If it were 9 feet it would weigh much more than 300 lbs.
4. The older males should be culled for the optimum health of the herds.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: GUEST,Van
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 05:38 AM

No offence was taken Alan. I enjoyed your response. I wish I could have written something so witty and have made what is a good point.
ivan

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Slag
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 09:37 PM

Sory, I keep forgetting this is in GB. We do things a little different here in the States. All game are under a federal mandate. The several states can only strenghten a federal law by state legislative action, not weaken or dilute it.

Bear does indeed taste a lot like pork but beware, like pork it carries a strain of the trichina worm which can be deadly if it survives the cooking process (under-cooking). You need to get it up to 160 deg. F for at least five minutes or more. Well done is the key factor.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: gnu
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 09:27 PM

Slag... yup. Got my deer license again this year. Haven't shot a deer since I can't recall. Haven't taken even a partridge for years and I was an avid hunter for many years. As well, we must apply for a doe draw, which I have done for yeeeears longer and never took a doe when I had a doe tag.

Last time I fired on a buck it was to scare him back into the woods when I saw another hunter draw down on him. Yes, not cricket and I don't know why I did that. It just seemed the right thing to do at the time.

But, if that hunter had shot that buck, I would have helped him gut it and haul it and I would have enjoyed my deer steaks and pancakes with maple slurpup. I still love a deer/moose fry but I'd rather photograph them.

Your idea that people should buy a hunting license and not hunt is a great idea. I hope the tree huggers do just that.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Slag
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 09:08 PM

Did he have the proper license? If so then he DID have the right, by law, to take the buck. Few folks subsist on hunting any more. Those who do are called poachers as it is illegal in most places and rightly so. If we didn't raise our animals in mass, behind barriers of some sort, there'd be no animals left and we'd all be living off soyulent green. So, was it a shame? The person paid for the priviledge. He got a fine trophy. The stag was spared a lingering death due to old age and starvation and the bleeding hearts have had a good cry and wrung their hands repeatedly. If that isn't a win-win situation then what is?

If it's alive, it will die: that's inevitable. Nothing in nature is lost. It all serves a purpose. Something will eat it, every bit of it including the waste. This person was fulfilling this undeniable law of nature to the extent that he did indeed consume what he killed. At lest, I hope someone consumed it. The trophy part will be admired for year to come but it to must eventually re-enter the food chain at some point. Just because humans are the top predator at this juncture doesn't mean that humans are somehow exempt from nature's laws. We are part of the order whether you like it or not. Perversion is mummifying your remains and attempting to deny nature her share. It is an honorable thing to return the building blocks back to the builder when we are done with them. It's the way it's supposed to work.

This guy and thousands like him provide the capital for game management which protects stags and other game animals from over hunting. Over hunting, now THAT would be a shame and something to get worked up about. Thank the hunter who takes game legally next time you see a beautiful buck/stag, bear, rabbit, dove, grouse, quail, etc. because if not for the legal hunter and his ilk, there would be no game to admire, paint, photograph, etc. If you really are concerned, by a hunting license but take no game. That's what I do.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 05:58 PM

Not being a country person, van, I have no idea about the rights and wrongs of the case. I would never sit in judgement over anybody - certainly not yourself.

no offence intended mate. I was being flippant. Its a great failing on my part.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: pdq
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 05:26 PM

I think it just got lost on its way home.

Had a little too much vino at the stag party.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: GUEST,Van
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 04:41 PM

Alan,

I think you misunderstood my point. I would no sooner take a rifle and kill such a magnicent animal. But with the lack of a natural preditor to keep them in check someone has to do it. many estates are valued on the number of deer there are to stalk/kill and as a result the habitat is ruined and the deer starve. Hence my comment "bring back the wolf."

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: gnu
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 02:25 PM

In Michigan, USA the deer are DEvolving due to overpopulation... getting smaller and less robust.

Of course, that is not necessarily a point of arguement for killing such a magnificent animal, just an observation of what goes on in nature.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 11:28 AM

that was me sorry - forgot to do the name thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 11:24 AM

Theres nothing wrong with culling a deer
I asked one once, this may sound queer
i said, can i shoot you with my gun
he said, go ahead mate, sounds like fun!
use my antlers to hang your hat.....?
I'm sure I can't refuse you that.
And all the world and its many denizens
They cannot do without their venison
So when the royals and their thicko mates
Come to shoot us down on their estates
We stags, we give three hearty cheers
its never wrong to cull a deer.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: GUEST,Van
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 06:39 AM

There is nothing wrong in culling deer. In areas of Scotland there are so many that they are destroying the habitat that sustains them(bring back the wolf). The more deer on an estate the higher the land value. However in this case if the stag has been shot it is wrong because it was an icon or totem for the area and as such should have been left alone to die of old age.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Gervase
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 04:27 AM

A good article here, athough it might be too nuanced for some of the more rabid bunny-huggers to grasp.
For those who can't access the link, it's a piece by Charles Moore, former editor of the Daily Telegraph, and a hate figure to many on the Left.

He addresses first of all the question of whether or not the stag was actually shot - something which is open to debate, before turning to the outrage the publicity has spawned. On the initial claim, by a publicity-hungry Irish animal sentimentalist called Johhny Kingdom, who once imprisoned a three-legged deer in a pen, named it 'Bambi' and kept it as a pet, Moore writes; Whose interest, then, did it serve, apart from helping sales of Mr Austin's photographs and ratings for Mr Kingdom's programmes? The answer, I suggest, is the desire, deep in the puritan character, to get self-righteously angry about animals.

To quote selectively:
It is not wrong, in general, to kill a deer. They are wild animals with no natural predators in these islands. If they are not shot, they die of natural causes, most commonly of starvation. Their welfare is served by killing a percentage of them, because if they grow too numerous, their quality declines and they do too much damage to agriculture, forestry and habitat. If you do not kill a few, there will come a time when you will need to kill a lot.

And...
So you are left with the "How could you…?" line. "How could you be so cruel as to kill such a beautiful thing?" As someone who has shot stags quite often, I have sometimes felt sad about it, a feeling which tends to grow as one gets older. But it is not crueller to kill a stag, which is beautiful, than a rat, which isn't. This is a matter of human taste, not of kindness to animals...

Now I know Charles Moore is a 'toff' and therefore anything he says must - for many - be tosh, but as someone who lives in a rural area but who has worked in the media, I can see little to argue with there.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: GUEST,Van
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 08:00 PM

Why should there be a system that allows someone to sell permission to kill something they cannot possibly claim to own? Sounds medieval to me' but then I'm just a serf. But then there's a woman on my block who asks whose ganna take away his licence to kill.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Leadfingers
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 07:23 PM

100 ?

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: pdq
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 07:06 PM

Sound pretty similar to your situation except some jerk had permission

The story about elk killed in Yellowstone sounds like a travesty and, if the guy was really convicted in a court of law, he should do some hard time and all proceeds from the video forfited.

Please note that the subject of this thread has not been shown to dead. No witnesses, no video, no body. The news media is intentionally hyping anger and hatred for the "privleged class", "gun owners" and "trophy hunters" because it suits the agenda.

I hope the animal is found to have wandered off to another estate. I also hope the government takes protecting wildlife more seriously in the future.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: olddude
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 06:36 PM

Even worse is he still sold a ton of videos. So I am sure he could care less about the fine. They should have confiscated all the profits I think ... that would have been a lessen builder. My understand is one is not allowed to profit from an illegal act. So why wasn't that done maybe it was but the TV show didn't point that out only it was one of the best selling bow hunting videos.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: olddude
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 06:07 PM

There was a guy in the states that made how to hunt videos on bow hunting. He was a supposed expert on bow hunting elk. In one of the video's he killed this incredible huge Elk from a tree stand. However it turned out that the Elk was on Yellowstone National Park. The Elk was well known and was not afraid of people, it use to walk up to them. The park service recognized the area he was hunting and the elk he killed fined the crap out of him. Me I think he should have done some jail time ... Sound pretty similar to your situation except some jerk had permission

Good grief

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 05:38 PM

Stag Night at Lochcranza Isle of Arran

I love this picture, many versions of the same scene can be seen on local postcards but you are more likely to 'bag' one with a driver than a gun as they spend a lot of time on the local golf course probably constituting a natural hazard :)

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 07:57 AM

someone might eat Prince Charles, THEN AL LEAST WE WOULD BE SPARED Prince Charles guitar picking.
http://www.mjra.net/WillFly/guitarist.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: kendall
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 07:53 AM

Trophy hunters all suffer from testosterone poisoning.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 07:51 AM

perhaps its just gone for a stag weekend.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: GUEST,Van
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 06:02 AM

I always thought that there was something odd about this story. TV reports showing where the body was found but no shots of the body. "Probably killed for a trophy." It would have beeen obvious had there been a body as the trophy items would have been removed.
as they say "where's the venison?"

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Gervase
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 02:40 AM

Antlers and skin are left on the animal as these have a value and a use. Only the pluck and entrails are left, and foxes, badgers, crows, buzzards and kites usually make short work of these. In a few hours there's not much left of Uncle Dirk at the crime scene, and the youngsters go on their way heedless of the passing of an uncle/cousin/father/brother. Ungrateful little sods.

And, ah yes, the Korowai, bless their little befeathered toes. How could I forget them. Dammit, one pithy post from a pub quiz veteran and the whole thread unravels. It's a fair cop, GSS; The actions of one Melanesian tribe negate all the taboos and culture that have developed in the rest of the globe. Curse you and your anthropology!

On second thoughts, have a look at the original meaning of the phrase "the exception proves the rule". The clue is in the gunsmith's meaning of "proof".

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 09:23 PM

Why is it showing respect to dump the offal, antlers, skin...?

Imagine you're an antelope and you come across your Dad's coat and antlers....it would be traumatic.

'dad! dad! get up! I promise not to say any more discouraging words, about the sky being cloudy all day!'

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: gnu
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 08:28 PM

Scorch... the point that this was the only reason the stag may have been shot.

As for trophy hunting being around a long time... yeah... so what? Doesn't make it right. (I was taught to take everything back where the game was dropped after it was butchered... antlers, hide... and give it back. It was only proper and respectful.)

Ain't it obvious what I missed?

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Alan Day
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 06:25 PM

Interesting, The Korowai have invited me to do a gig
Al

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 06:15 PM

gnu...hate to tell you this, but Trophy hunting has been around a LONG time. Meat? What meat? I just want to hang the head on my wall!



What point did you miss, there Bud?

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 05:54 PM

"Today, the Korowai are one of very few tribes still believed to eat human flesh as a cultural practice."

Ooh, let's send 'em 20 years supply of Corporate Bastards to munch on!



Folks are slowing down a little...I posted the story about His Majesty possibly still wandering the Exmoor Hills, last night..umpteen posts above this...

'Devon Life' magazine - The Deer Edition

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 05:45 PM

Nice to know that Patsy is prepared to pay for orthodontic work on an elderly stag!
People and animals are different. For good or ill, we eat animals; we don't eat people"
Today, the Korowai are one of very few tribes still believed to eat human flesh as a cultural practice. It is also still known to be practised as a ritual and in war in various Melanesian tribes.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Rafflesbear
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 01:10 PM

just because something didn't happen (although reported in numerous normally reliable sources) doesn't make it any better as an idea

As for Tesco, I haven't shopped there for anything at all since I saw their attitude to chicken rearing shown on an investigative tv programme

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: kendall
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 01:07 PM

Well, that certainly spoils a good "Mad on"