BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley

Subject: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 03:43 AM

Dominic Carman admits that they "got a kicking".

Results of the Barnsley by-election:

Dan Jarvis (Lab) 14,724 (60.80%, +13.53%)
Jane Collins (Ukip) 2,953 (12.19%, +7.53%)
James Hockney (C) 1,999 (8.25%, -9.01%)
Enis Dalton (BNP) 1,463 (6.04%, -2.90%)
Tony Devoy (Ind) 1,266 (5.23%, +3.58%)
Dominic Carman (LibDem) 1,012 (4.18%, -13.10%)
Kevin Riddiough (Eng Dem) 544 (2.25%)
Howling Laud Hope (Loony) 198 (0.82%)
Michael Val Davies (Ind) 60 (0.25%)

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Sorry, I shouldn't laugh….but…..
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Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 03:50 AM

Serve the bastards right.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: Rog Peek
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 04:09 AM

That Richard, was exactly my reaction.

When Mr. Carman said "The electorate in Barnsley have given us a kicking, but we can take it." "Just as well you can." thought I
"'Cause I'd say there are likely to be a few more kickings in that direction in the future".

Rog

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 04:28 AM

You stupid morons!!

So the previous Labour candidate represented a morally bankrupt party, and was a proven crook to boot, and STILL the idiotic sheep in Barnsley voted Labour! Wake up, you fools, Labour is NO LONGER a progressive, Socialist party but a bunch of hypocritical, doctrinaire autocrats - didn't the 13 years of Labour government teach you ANYTHING?

And which parties did the cretins in Barnsley put before the LibDems?

A bunch of nationalistic xenophobes and the f**king Tories, that's who!

I despair - this country deserves everything it gets!

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 04:50 AM

Oh, didums, Shimrod!

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Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 04:51 AM

"I despair - this country deserves everything it gets!"

And what it will get, if Labour succeeds in its mission to destroy the LibDems, is a full-blown Tory government and more Tory governments for another generation. But that's what Labour wants, isn't it? - because Labour can only really cope with opposition - they certainly can't cope with government - as they proved over 13 years!

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 05:03 AM

Nick Clegg destroyed the Lib Dems when he climbed into bed with Cameron. He had the chance to change British Politics by standing as a balancing force for unified opinions but instead grabbed the opportunity for personal power. If he had stood with the rest of the country, I for one would have voted for a proportional representation system that kept decision making matched to the will of the people. As it is, he has made sure that almost all decisions will be dictated by the people who have the money. I will do all I can to make sure Liberals never get ANY power again.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 05:04 AM

I'm not sure what to think. I was glad to finally see the back of the last lot who went under the name of Labour and had hopes for the LibDems who seem to have sold out...

I'm not sure who I'd vote for now.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: David C. Carter
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 05:32 AM

What Richard Bridge said.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 05:51 AM

It really is a bit of a bugger, Who does one vote for now? Full on Tory? Tory Lite? or Tory wishy-washy?
(or the lunatic fringe...BNP/UKIP)
At least the "Loony" party admit who they are! Honest prospective politicians! Might as well vote for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 06:01 AM

"Oh, didums, Shimrod!"

A very mature 'argument', 'leveller' - and typical of the contemporary, morally bankrupt Labour party.

And shouldn't that be "la, la, la, la etc." with eyes tight shut and fingers in ears:

"I've always voted Labour and I always will even if they start murdering babies ... Oh look, they are murdering babies! Shut eyes, finger in ears and la, la, la, la, la etc., etc."

I repeat, you stupid moron!

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 06:11 AM

I for one would have voted for a proportional representation system that kept decision making matched to the will of the people. As it is, he has made sure that almost all decisions will be dictated by the people who have the money. I will do all I can to make sure Liberals never get ANY power again.

I think that's a mistake, Geoff. I'm far from happy with the LibDems and can understand your feelings but I still think proportional representation although what's on offer is only part way there) would be an improvement.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 06:29 AM

"I will do all I can to make sure Liberals never get ANY power again.
Quack!"

Why aren't you working to make sure the Tories never get ANY power again, G the D?

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 06:47 AM

Shimrod, you lost the battle when you sank to using personal insults, face facts , the Lib/Dems lost it when Clegg sold his soul to the tories for a few minutes in power.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 06:53 AM

"I repeat, you stupid moron! "


A very mature 'argument' Shimrod - the words "pot", "kettle" and "black" spring to mind. As usual, personal abuse takes precedence in your bizarre form of logic. Actually, I have never voted Labour in my life - just pleased that the electorate of Barnsley have demonstrated the disgust with the LibDems that so many people feel and relegated them from number two at the last election to the shadowlands with the rest of the unelectables.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 07:01 AM

"Shimrod, you lost the battle when you sank to using personal insults"

I have to confess, Dave, that I find it extremely amusing to witness someone in such a state of advanced apoplexy that they can't construct a coherent statement ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 07:09 AM

"the Lib/Dems lost it when Clegg sold his soul to the tories for a few minutes in power."

And Labour 'lost it' when they wasted 13 years in power! Give me one good reason why I should vote Labour?

And I experience no qualms whatsoever about insulting Labour and Labour supporters. That's all they deserve! 13 years they had to build a truly progressive democracy - and look at the mess they made!

Does the list need repeating?

- A greater social divide that even under the Torys.

- Massive house price inflation such that young people can no longer afford a house.

- A massive assault on our civil liberties.

- Failure to regulate the banks and Big Business.

- Everything enveloped in a grossly over-complicated and pointless 'box ticking' bureaucracy.

- A complete disregard for the environment - which suffered badly as a result.

- The scandal of MP's expenses which Labour allowed to happen under its nose.

- An illegal war in Iraq which led to thousands of innocent lives being lost.

Need I go on?

My dear old Dad, who was a sheet-metal worker, not a teacher, university lecturer or social worker living in a big , expensive house, like many Labour supporters round here, always believed that Labour was a bunch of hypocritical shits. And to think I used to argue with him - how right he was!

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 07:48 AM

What can you expect from people with a funny accent?

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 09:36 AM

As Leveller (who seems to have a couple of keys sticking on his keyboard) well knows, mid term by-elections really are of little consequence, particularly with such a low turn out.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 09:44 AM

While most politicians continue to be maggots, the New Labour party (real Labour has clause 4) is the lesser of two weevils...

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 09:48 AM

I have some sympathy with you there, Richard ... whatever happened to 'real' Labour?

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 09:50 AM

Bob Marshall-Andrews retired.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: Stu
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 09:52 AM

Micheal Foot died.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 10:37 AM

Hi

I agree with the view that by-elections are not a good indicator for General Election forecasts.

However by what-ever standards, the Barnsley result does indicate that Clegg and his party are going to have a tough time convincing their own party members to vote for them in the future.

Barnsley obviously is a very strong labour area and will probably never be anything else.

It will be interesting to see what happens in a lesser Labour dominated area for a more clear indication.

What odds Clegg for the high jump soon ???

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 10:58 AM

I dislike the title of this thread, leveller old mate. No one got kicked. They lost a mid term by election.

I don't like Nick Clegg and suspect he is related to captain Clegg in a Hammer Horror film. Secretly he is in charge of a gang of pirates.

having said that, no violence was involved in Barsley - famous for its cops and the warmth of Yorkshire hostility, extended to all outsiders.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 11:06 AM

That should read - famous for its chops

As in

I went down, to the shop
Got meself a Barnsley chop

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: mauvepink
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 11:12 AM

Mr Clegg's (in my opinion) myopic courtship with power will have cost the LibDems dearly. May 5th is not too long off and I think his colleagues will have a hard time convincing past voter's and supporters that they can still be trusted. That said, the uk voting public have often been shown to have rather fickle memories and, on the whole, are quite a forgiving bunch of people. I'm not sure that will be the case this time around and people may want to punish Mr Clegg and his party for having seemingly betrayed their trust for a few seats of power.

I have always voted Liberal since I had the right to vote. Sadly I now feel I am left with nowhere to put my cross (though I believe it is important that I use it)

Proportional Representation I thought would have been a good thing for UK politics. It seems much fairer but then we have seen that fairness is not a word that easily stays on the tongues of many. I think there should be an empty box on the voting paper where you can show you do not wish to support any party. That would be far different than just looking at the large number of people who never turn up to vote. People need to get their belief back in the Politicians but I think that would only come with trust. Where has truth and trust gone?

This is not to say that I think all politicians are bad people. I know there are some really good ones but their voice, if allowed to have one, seems to be drowned out these days by larger mutterings.

I feared for the future before the last general election. That fear remains as I see what effects some of the decisions being made are having on my friends, my neighbours, my colleagues, my clients and myself. Things did have to change and much needed to be done but still I see the most vulnerable being the ones taking the burden whilst the rich get richer (albeit at a slower pace) and those in power sleep well in their beds at night, warm and well fed.

Just a few thoughts

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 11:37 AM

"I dislike the title of this thread, leveller old mate. No one got kicked."

Not my words, Alan, the words of the defeated Lib Dem candidate.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 11:44 AM

"mid term by-elections really are of little consequence"

Mid term? And you pretend to be an accountant, Bozo. If you work it out on your fingers you'll realise that it's actually the beginning of their term. God only knows what state the country will be in by the end.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,BGig Norman Voice
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 12:53 PM

The Labour party was born out of hate, and continues to thrive on hate.
They are truly the party of pettiness, and jealousy. They are bad losers, in the same way as they were bad winners: for 13 years!

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 01:15 PM

"The Labour party was born out of hate, and continues to thrive on hate"

Looks like someone needs a history lesson.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Big Norman Voice
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 01:24 PM

So tell, me; was it love of the bosses then?

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 01:45 PM

Well, I could furnish you with the facts, but I seriously doubt that you would have the wit to understand them

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Big Norman Voice
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 02:19 PM

Why don't you start with James Keir Hardy and go from there.
It would be interesting to know your slant.
We might learn something

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Big Norman Voice
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 02:26 PM

Sorry Hardie, brain in neutral again :)

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 02:42 PM

Get back to us when you find first gear.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Big Norman Voice
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 02:49 PM

Cheap shot

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 03:48 PM

Yeh bullseye though!

The National health Service keep my wife alive and i got my degree from the Open University.

Neither institution would have occurred to a tory to create, as long as he had a hole in his arse.

You don't like the Labour party , leave it at that. You don't have to abuse it - saying that its founded on hate.

The Labour Party has many faults. Those of us who vote for it are aware of that. I imagine tories and lib dems feel the same about their parties.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Big Norman Voice
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 04:00 PM

Well I hold no candle for any party, but the one sided, bitter, un thought out abuse, that other parties get. From the likes of Richard Bridge, and others, requires a bit of balance.
No party or person is all good or all bad.
Also, the groundwork for the national health service, was laid down, long before the Labour Party nationalised hospitals and services in 1948. There was the Beveridge report in 1942, and a White Paper under the Conservatives in 1944. Neither of the previous reports tackled funding. Not saying it's a bad thing, patently it is a good thing, just badly run, and underfunded.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 04:25 PM

That's what politics is about - the nuts and bolts of acquiring and exercising power. We make choices.

My aunt loathed Margaret thatcher - everything she did, everything she said. But my aunt served as a tory councillor most of her life, and she did her best for her community.

Have you ever met an American republican who wasn't ashamed to be supporting and voting for Ronald reagan - a man who didn't seem able to put a sentence together without being prompted and scripted.

Look how the democrats were humiliated by Clintons antics in the Oval Office.

For years I used put radio 4 on in the mornings, and my heart would sink as neil Kinnock launched into one of his idiotic tongue twisters on the floor of the House of Commons. It was a really depressing start to every day.

We vote for these parties because, they are the best choices open to us.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Big Norman Voice
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 04:43 PM

To support a party by denigrating another is childish and unconstructive. It is the debate of the playground, and rarely rises above the IQ of a Dodo.
Criticise their policies, and or their actions constructively. If you think they made an ass of something, suggest a better way of doing it. If the party you support makes mistakes, criticise it as harshly as you do their opponents.
To say you hate someone, or what they stand for is childish, and requires no thought.
I have often liked someone, only to later loathe them, and vice versa, but I NEVER use the hate word, it's used too casually today.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 05:41 PM

I would like to suggest that political parties...ALL of them...are the main problem in democracy, not the solution, and we would be better off if they all ceased to exist and were not even allowed to exist. You can form a national assembly that works just fine in the complete absence of political parties, and one would be far better off doing so. All you need to do is run nothing but independent candidates, NONE of whom are associated with or beholden in any way to ANY political party structure. Run several of them in each riding, vote for the one you respect and believe in the most. Let those elected form a national assembly and vote among themselves to select a prime minister and other key officials from amongst themselves. Let them debate policy and vote. There is no need for these damned political parties which have all sold out to rich elites long ago, and only pretend to represent the general public.

People have to free themselves from being hypnotized into believing that they must have these corrupt political parties in order to have a democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 06:40 PM

Amen LH.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: s&r
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 06:46 PM

Well said Little Hawk. I've long believed that choosing to be shot in the left knee or the right knee is no choice, and certainly not a sane form of government.

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: Micca
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 07:36 PM

A very wise American, (I think it was Avrell Harriman) once said " The desire to be elected should preclude you from standing"

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 08:18 PM

BNV - you should really learn some history. The primary purpose of the conservative party is, was, and always has been to preserve inherited wealth and power. That merits nothing but abuse because it is itself nothing but abusive. The people deserve the fruits of their labour. The rich get rich on the unrequited labour of the people. Those things are no deniable.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 08:45 PM

Ah, but the problem is that of late all the major political parties have taken on the same primary purpose which is to preserve entrenched wealth and power. The parties which arose in former times and for some time honestly did represent the aspirations of ordinary working people (and this, I believe, would include Labour in the UK and the New Democratic Party in Canada, for example)........those parties no longer represent the aspirations of ordinary working people, although many of their members still think they do.

They have been taken over from within at the upper levels of power and they now represent the unholy triumvirate of major banks, major corporations, and the most wealthy 5% of the society...plus the military-industrial complex that is an arm of major corporations.

Thus you ended up with a Labour government that mysteriously went to war in the Middle East for reasons of US and UK corporate imperialism and utterly betrayed the very people who voted it into office, as well as ignoring the most massive antiwar demonstrations that I think have ever occurred in the UK and western Europe!

That's why I say it's hopeless expecting anything from any of these established political parties. They've all been bought out by the richest 5% of the population and they will not represent the ordinary public when in office.

The only way you can get free of this is by dismantling the existing political parties altogether and starting over entirely with a system that has NO parties. Unfortunately, I don't see how that can be done, because the present ruling system will ensure that it doesn't happen, and they own the broadcast media.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Big Norman Voice
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 03:38 AM

When the party you espouse confuses bettering the lot of their members/supporters, with the destruction of the opposition.
Then I suggest that it has lost it's way, ceased to be constructive, and become destructive instead.

No political parties, and the resultant abolition of the whipping system in parliament, might help us to get more thought out, and less doctrinaire, legislation.

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 04:40 AM

Keep going BNV, I love reading your posts. I'm making a compilation of them to read out at our local comedy club, I hope you don't mind?

Subject: RE: BS: Condems get a kicking in Barnsley
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 04:44 AM

"BNV - you should really learn some history. The primary purpose of the conservative party is, was, and always has been to preserve inherited wealth and power. That merits nothing but abuse because it is itself nothing but abusive. The people deserve the fruits of their labour. The rich get rich on the unrequited labour of the people. Those things are no deniable."

Please explain what is your objection to inherited wealth.